 Hi, my name is Tanya Pinkins, and welcome to the fourth edition of Through a Black Woman's Lens, graciously hosted by HowlRound. And we're going to be discussing today Miss Sajinwar, which is a phrase that was coined by Moya Bailey, and Moya is an educator. She defined it as the ways that anti-black and misogynistic representation shape broader ideas about black women, particularly in visual culture and digital spaces. She's the author of Miss Sajinwar, Black Women's Digital Resistance, Miss Sajinwar Transforms. I want to give her the attribution. She wasn't available to be with us today, but I wanted to know that she is the person who came up with that phrase that went viral. She had the privilege of being in conversation with three brilliant black women, two of whom I know from just being blessed in the world. One I've known from Chicago from her work with Push. She and her husband came to my rescue while I was working on a play in New York and personally dealing with Miss Sajinwar. She is, has over 40 years of marketing and communications expertise. She's the president of Marcia L Dyson LLC, an exclusive national and international consultancy in matters of business development, marketing and political strategies. She's proud of being one of Tribeca Film Festival's disruptors, and that is evident in her work. And she is working on a book called Irreverent Memoir of a Grown-Ass Woman to be published in 2022 by St. Martin's Black Press. So, so pretty pleased to have Marcia L Dyson in conversation with me today. Thank you for having me. Thank you. And then my next guest is, we bet, when I was deeply involved as a union leader for the actors union, trying to figure out what we do about sexual predation and harassment in the workplace, and trying to figure out what were methods where the unions and sexes would not be policing themselves around things that people were complaining about themselves about. And so, I had the privilege of being in conversation with her then. Lisa Galoater is the CEO and co-founder of Tech-Quitable, which uses technology to make the workplace more equitable, and it provides an independent, confidential platform to address issues of bias and discrimination. And she has 25 years in the industry with products that have been used by billions of people and a proven track record in tech. So I'm grateful to have these ladies in conversation. And I think our third guest is joining right now. I see that power fist coming in. So we're going to hold for her. Her name is Tanya Denise Fields, and she's the only person who I don't know personally before this moment. So I'm grateful to her for trusting that I wasn't going to, you know, bomb her here. She is a single mother who's been living in a marginalized community, and she is the founder of Black Feminist Project, which is formerly the BLK project, and it is a response to sexist institutional policies, structurally reinforced cycles of poverty, harsh inequities in wealth, and access to capital that result for far too many women being unable to rise out of poverty and sustain their families. So we'll give her a chance to come in, and I once again want to say thank you to all of the women. The reason we're having this conversation is this year I became an entrepreneur, and I produced, directed, funded, acted in, post produced everything on my first feature film, and it was life transforming. It made me reach out to other women who have already done the same thing, because I realized there was a world that was available to us that my mind just wasn't even big enough to conceive of. And so I wanted to have conversations with these women, so that we could share this wisdom with other other women in the world and through a black woman's lens, because black women have been supporting upholding the foundation of America and societies all over the world when black women work, everybody benefits. So I wanted to center black women who I admire, and respect, and give them the floor to talk about what is important to them and what they need so that there would be an opportunity for people to give back to them. So, welcome Tanya. Glad you're able to get on with us. This is Marcia and Lisa. We're going to just be in conversation and the topic is misogynoir. And one of the things I was thinking about is that I've been raised to be very polite and, you know, to know how to ask for things. And I sometimes find that I will ask someone for help, and a gatekeeper, and they will give me the help. And then when I get the gate opened, and I go in, and I excel, they're mad at me, and they feel that I've tricked them. And now they want to destroy me or show me that if it weren't for them, I couldn't have. Do you women have experience with things like that? And what's your strategy? Any of you may speak? I'll jump in here. So, there's actually, there's a chart going around the interwebs, right, which basically talks about how black women who are recruited into, I'm in technology, but it's business in general, right, who are recruited in. And then, like, there's this flow chart of basically, like, as soon as you get in the door, you're either treated like the pet, or as soon as you start standing up for yourself and becoming your own person, then the basically all roads lead to being kind of shunted off or attacked or deemed, you know, aggressive or all of those things. So there's actually this flow chart that really, I'll dig it up and send it to you later. Okay, holding on. And yeah, and I think, you know, especially as a black woman in tech, I think, you know, I'm almost always other or the only certainly, you know, for 30 years. And the one thing that I found is that so they're definitely gatekeepers or gatekeepers, people in financial lead, situations of power because of money, who have supported and put me forward and helped me. And, and then I, and then I owe them and then I'm trotted out to be like the the show pony. And then it's a, and like it ends up being like, I mean, I'll, I'll take the support and the help that I can get. But then it also like they're, they're a do comes with it in terms of yes, I am, I am grateful, I have to show that I have to I have to patch you on the back. I have to, you know, so there is, you know, that is definitely been my experience as well. I think my relationship has been a little bit opposite. I've been fortunate to have been in the room where it happens often as a black woman and in my global work a black woman and an American with very important matters that dictate not only our foreign affairs, but our domestic policies. And one thing because I have had the trajectory of being the only woman and trying to make a way out of no way not only financially but career wise. I thought it was important to mentor so I mentor over 2500 women from the ages on 50 down and various aspects and try to make sure that when they're in the room because first of all, you know, I let when I was a public information for the city of Chicago. I made sure that Mayor David knew that I was not the spook who said by the door, when I'm with these white people and they said oh you're so lovely you know we just like you we love your aesthetics. I let them know I'm good with this and I could be hood with this I won't be the only raisin in your oatmeal. Right. And but more importantly for so many the sisters and the person I'm also an infant so I find myself given often to the extent of my human capacity. And what bothers me the most is what I say you know Lisa's kind of opposite to you is the reciprocity. Right. And often I think that is more detrimental to relationships and grow especially to a person like all of us who are here I'm sure we're all infants in some form or way if not we wouldn't be here and not in fact because something has happened as a crisis which I am working on in Haiti and Afghanistan I must mention that because of the women, especially as it relates to Afghanistan as this moment. You know, we have to see how we can work it out right and so misogyny or it's not only about how we feel we are treated by general society I stop and check my young women. How we treat in ourselves. There's an adage in Africa that Obama use that he got from Mandela, but Mandela got that from this complete African adage that is used across the continent. You can determine the way a civilization is going by the way it treats its women. And I would love to hear you Tony because I think you're the youngest sister on the block right here now. But I see how sisters are treating itself. I'm sounding the alarm. Right. So because Monsage now has no gender, gender basis or biases, when it comes to relationship, especially to me and something I coined the fracture sisterhood. Thank you so much for that. So a few years ago, I had what I dubbed like Melissa gate. I went to a, I went to a talk with Melissa Harris Perry and bell hooks at the new school and bell hooks was going and I love bell, let me preface with that. And, you know, my name, the name of my organization is the black feminist project. And so I was, you know, it's not called the feminist project is called the black feminist project. And so my work is very much influenced directly by Audrey Lord, you know, September Clark and on C bell hooks. But, you know, Professor Bell is going on and on about how she really does not like the media representations of the black female body, how we are only celebrated when we are a patsy from 12 years of slaves, or when we are otherwise being brutalized. And when are we going to get out eat pray love and when are we going to be seen in this this in multiplicity. And I remember getting up and I was in a really bad place in my life at that time I was recently pregnant. The father of my child just took off one day. I am a woman who has known poverty. People like to like Lisa said people, particularly white people used to love to trot me out to talk about my bootstrapping story how does a mother of six, who has subsisted on welfare built her own organization and take care for community herself blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. I was getting tired of that narrative. But the thing that I said to Bell was, I hear you. And I want this multiplicity for us as well. I want for us to see our humanity in the nuance that many of us occupy many spaces, but that is not going to come until we see ourselves in that way. And we don't. I said I am a college educated nonprofit leader, activists in my community, many of the women in this room, when I open my mouth swoon. And when they find out that I am the mother of four children who was now pregnant again and has not been married a day in her life. I see their eyes glaze over. I witnessed how I am treated differently. What we give energy to grows. And if we continue to give energy to this idea that there was only one type and right way of showing up in black femininity and black womanhood. Well, and that will continue to grow. And so if we want different depictions of what we look like, then we have to be able to extend grace to each other and understand that there is nuance in this and the whole crowd explodes and people stand up and they're clapping and Melissa Harris Perry comes off the the stage and embraces me and whispers in my ear. And I didn't realize that it was being live streamed. And the next day, there were blogs and editorials about me I was being dragged. Dr voice Watkins said that I was what's wrong with black womanhood, and that I was supporting baby mama ism and black women per I mean they were the most rabbit. Right. She seems so smart. Why would she have so many children, you know, I mean, it was, I had to go off the Internet for like three months to recover and in my work, I'm continually put up against this type of mistreatment, but I also to in this case can be considered a gatekeeper. And so quite often I am giving mutual aid to black mothers and black caregivers with very few I'm not the welfare office. So if a black woman comes to me and says, you know, Tonya, they call me mama Tonya online mama Tonya, you know rent is backed up. I need a couple dollars. I will give them the money. I don't ask for them to send me stuff. I don't need documentation. What's your cash app. Let me see a picture. And then that's it. And then those same women will go and malign me later. And I'm saying to myself I do this work, because my ancestors want me to do this work. I'm a vessel. However, that does not mean that I don't want reciprocity. It does not mean that I want I don't want grace. So many of us are so continually looking for grace. We forget to give grace. And so it becomes a very hard place to be in my life does not revolve around white people, I honestly do not think about them very often beyond like, can you get the hell out of my way so I can get access to the resources that me and my community need. My life is black black blackity black. So it for me what always takes precedent Marsha is this idea that I like that the idea that there's this fractured sisterhood that we expect things from our sisters that we ourselves are not willing to extend it to extend it to our sisters. And that's where so much of my experience with massage noir shows up in my life from other black fems and other black women. So I'm going to ask this question because it was in the news and that was powerful all three of you thank you. Yesterday there was some news about chicari Richardson and did she dis address Alison Felix and and I don't know if you all know anything about it. But, you know, I'm always willing to give everybody grace. I think Alison Felix publicly said chicari should be supported. And chicari said, easy to say that in front of a microphone but it means nothing if it's not offline. And I was listening to people say well she needs to respect her elders and how dare she and she's not all that and I'm thinking well first of all we don't know what happened off off line with these women, and she's 21. Can she make some mistakes. Can she grow can she learn. But I think when we're in this public world. We know that the algorithm just magnifies everything we do in such a way that it invites more people to attack us such that massage and war is probably something born of the algorithm, which, which magnifies exponentially, the worst in all of us. Thank you for your point. And thank you, Tonya first of all I love your color sister you showing up and showing out there. New area. Oh girl please stop it let me run and join you by y'all. I'm great to see the her car, but you know, since you're in the car I'm thinking that you're driving. We have to think about what is driving our sisters, you know, and what is the vehicle. First of all, when we talk about the representation I say this in the context and the analogy of, of culture because of you Tonya that what are the examples right. First of all with technology Lisa you know that with cancer culture you know you could say some ish and you know it'd be like a little whisper you say, you can't even hear me but you say it is so amplified. And then even before the onslaught of technology and council culture you have the beginnings of the birthing of reality shows where there was no sense of reconciliation, or, or how to have respect for each other without it becoming so divisive that we tear each other apart, and it's for profit you know sometimes our pain are monetized. And unfortunately for some of our sisters who don't have anything and they see that they can be little, you know, not little Kim but maybe the Kim, or somebody else or the work you know, you may have started off and your mother should be teaching a warden school because she's the biggest pimp I know and I don't say that quietly right at Christiana to teach at war school cool who else. I had a VHS tape in the 70s went nowhere so you know that's because my mother didn't help me out. And I'm saying that because we have to look at what are we selling our souls for in this modern day of technology. What are the stimulus plans that those that stimulate us in the wrong direction. And because I am an elder. Okay, I celebrate my 70th birthday this coming October. Right. Eight decades of navigating life, but for decades of really observing my sisters because they always been on my heart because I had four sisters and we're all different. Different ideas, different pigmentation, different class, you know, and depending on what we want to do in life but the end of the day, I saw how we could come back, based upon how our mother taught her that there was some principles that are necessary. I'm not old school with this, but I think that there has not has not been enough construction of making us MVPs and I say that women of moral virtues and principles and I don't say that in a very pious way, because I'm Scorpio. And I've realized our femininity, you know, and the sacredness of that, but I also have to look at how that is exploited. First of all, by the male culture, the patriarchal system, you know, which is ancient. I want to say Hugh Hefner but it's something ancient. And also my mother points was a single mom, I remember telling my mother who was coming to get me out of my first abusive marriage, you know, that of all her children who were disruptors from the womb. Why would I stand this long term relationship I remember telling my well you got five husband I don't know if the one you witness your husband and I don't want to be the woman I think well, well after I picked my butt up from off the ground right and apologizing to her. You know black women don't take no slap back and okay so I thought about it and I don't think that Tonya motherhood has nothing to do with age my mother was a teenage mother. Right, and raise seven children. And though we weren't rich, you know, like you I grew up sometimes in poverty. There was a sense of stability in our lives is that she wasn't a bad mother. Right, so it's not about whether you married or not it's not even the age right because it's a conversation feet me with God. Once you start ministering right then you're capable of giving birth that's a conversation with God and how that's to picked up in society. So we have to look at all these different things but Tonya, what my, my, my concern is that I keep on coming back to it how can we, you know, and Tonya change the narrative and change the representation of us. So the expectation is greater for the young women especially right and even some of my peers, you know, I put a picture of my son who's 50 right and my friends who I went to grammar school, come like hit me up on Facebook like I'm gonna be your mother and I'm like, No, you're not. You know what I mean. So what is it in us and what do we need because I think that even though we've come far as women. And then we do have the great mentors like Melissa Perry or Paris Harris on bell hooks whom I adore both of these women. What is it that we are not giving or what is it that we're not missing or how we just miss communicating in this mission in this mission walk. Okay. You know, I want to jump in on that to say that my mother had me when she was 14. My grandmother had six kids, her husband died early so she had to raise six kids, and I was raised like a seventh kid, because my mother had me at 14. And I have four kids, and two of them, I married their father, the other two I did not. All of that to say, in terms of image in the world. I don't, I guess, you know, I don't know that people know that about me they probably assume something else about me but that's my truth. There's a show on Netflix called our mother's gardens and I don't know if you've seen this documentary. But for me the beauty of it was it was just regular black women, and they made them look beautiful, and you know, the set was beautiful, and they were sitting and talking about just real black life and I, it was like I knew those women those were my aunties and my grandmas and I was like yes, I want to see more of this about us so that we can celebrate us in our regular everyday life rather than us having to be quote heroes on the hero journey, because I think it's heroic to survive colonial columnist white patriarchy like that's heroic. You know, bringing it back, Tanya to your original point about chicory. I've been watching I'm a very opinionate person but I'm also a Virgo. So we like to wait before we say anything, because we don't like to apologize and we don't like to backtrack and I would rather be silent and you think that I'm more beautiful than to open my mouth and remove all doubt. So I have been very slow to be on the chicory boat or off the chicory boat. What I do know is that she is a very talented 21 year old woman who reminds me a lot of a young Muhammad Ali. I think that when black women show up with that type of bravado and colorful hair and long ratchet fingernails and this what I like to call the tarantula eyelashes, you know what I'm saying eyelashes that reach the top of your that reach your hairline, you know what I'm saying. And you're like, even when I lose I'm winning can't can't nobody say nothing to me, because I'm that girl. That makes a lot of us uncomfortable, including black women. What really has struck me about chicory is how quick we were to be for her when we wanted her to be the token of anti establishment and how quickly we are ready to cancel her. When she makes a mistake. Many of us that talk about holding space for us to have learning experience to mess up I'm going to be 41 in a week. And I always say to my children, I am so glad that I did not have to come of age when the internet was popping. Like we still had dial up, you know, it took you 12 minutes to get on the internet. You know you couldn't Lisa you know it wasn't even back then there wasn't you had a flip phone it was gray. You couldn't take no pictures and if you did it was pixelated and you couldn't send it directly to the internet. You know what I'm saying you had to email it and then upload it and one picture took 45 minutes to upload. So you didn't people were not accessible to you in the way that they are now. I had to look back at some of the things I said six years ago, before I had some of the political analysis that I had, and it's absolutely cringe worthy. The 41 year old Tanya is like ooh 32 year old Tanya no. I can't imagine the things that I was saying at 21. When you think that you know it all, and you have the whole world at your fingertips, and you're right on the cusp of being rich. And this is a young woman who has come from what many of us would consider like the gutter, you know what I'm saying who was in the system. Who probably had to call with those long fingernails to get where she is. What I hope for her sort of talking about what Marsha was talking about is that she can curate a village because that's what saved me. I had to curate a village. I had to curate a healthy village. And that in and of itself is a practice. You will meet people who will take advantage of you. You will meet people who will see you as disposable. You will go through all kinds of trust issues. Right. But I hope that she can find a mentor. Somebody has sometimes tell her girl hush. Take a minute. Everything that's in your brain don't got to come out your mouth. And that resonates with me deeply because you know I'm from the hood. So we like to say excuse my language. I'm with the shits. Shikari's with the shits. There's if you invite her to a fight she will show up. I had to learn through many experiences that every fight I was invited to. I did not have to show up to that some that people don't take you out of your character that when you get into confrontation what it will do is show your character. Are you are you acting as who you want to be. Right. Because sometimes we think we're one person when we show up in the world that is not actually a line who we think we are in our brains. And so we have to find that alignment. Are my actions aligning with who I see myself as in my heart chakra in my brain spiritually. You know I'm saying emotionally and at 21. You know I'm saying like sometimes if you ain't got an elder sometimes that can be like girl I love you but you need to hush. Right. You know or you ain't always got to learn from your mistakes you can maybe learn from somebody else's mistakes. Right. Then you know then you find yourself in some of these positions when you don't maybe have someone people in your corner that are going to remind you that everybody that's cheering for you ain't authentic. I think that is particularly in the digital space and I've experienced this folks will love you when the way you show up in the world somehow adds to their life of benefits them. But that's it. Once you say something uncomfortable like people are like I love how real you are I love how transparent you are I love how direct you are until I start getting real and transparent and direct with them. I'm a bully. Oh she's a narcissist. All kinds of things that people make up because now I am no longer doing something that lends to making them feel good or somehow otherwise benefiting them. When Chikari was making us feel good she could do no wrong and literally two weeks later when she made us uncomfortable when we needed to not cancel her when we needed to pull her in and say sis. Can I tell you about what xenophobia looks like. Can I tell you about what discernment is that you can have transparency with discernment like you can be real but you can also be like let me be real behind the scenes I ain't got to be real on Twitter. You understand what I'm saying. We are having that conversation. There are those of us who are delighting in being like see I told you she wasn't all that because the way that she shows up in the world makes us uncomfortable. Those eyelashes those fingernails that bright hair her bravado her confidence her unwillingness to humble herself makes us uncomfortable but she also has to learn how to what we say in the streets jug and finesta. She got to learn how to finesta you can have the bravado you can be humble but you also have to learn sometimes when the like I mean you can be you know have that bravado but you also have to learn how you can not be humble but also just be like you know what I ain't got to tell you who I am I'm self contained I know who I am so I ain't got to say nothing about it right and you also have to be strategic like you out here in the public eye. Don't don't don't fuck your bag up because you want to win a fight. Don't fuck your bag up because you don't want to win a fight. You know we are in a capitalist society. It is important for black women to get the bag. Black women are inherently worthy of comfort and ease. I believe that as a single mother of six who has had to struggle for any little piece of anything that she has. I am not a mule. I am not a mammy. And I want my bag because I want to be able to live in these houses that I'm surrounded by on the waterfront here at the beach. You know and and our great great grandmothers have already paid in blood for that. And we don't owe this capitalist society anything else. So we also have to keep that in mind when we come out in the public eye and we get ready to show up in spaces. And my deepest wish and hope for Shikari is that she will be given the gift of a healthy village that can help lead and comfort her and catch her when she falls. Yeah. I think I think that was so on point. I think that that's exactly right. You captured so much of what was going on. And I think that's right. I think I think going back to your message around giving grace and I think it's a journey that we all have to go through right to your point again things that I did when I was in my twenties are not things that I I'm just trying to realize that everybody's kind of got to go through their own journey in that time and in that space. I do just want to put out there. There's the flip side of I think what some of y'all have experienced which is I don't have any children and people some feel some kind of way about that. Right. In terms of who I am my identity my worthiness. Like it's a whole it's a whole lot involved in there as well and so really there's no winning right it's coming and going. So one thing that I actually just want to touch on is kind of the flip side of of social media right I agree with you all in terms of cancel culture in terms of the dangers and the inherent risks in it. I think flip side of it is that it also brings power. There's an opportunity now right there's a democratization of voice. And so can that be used to combat misogynoir like it's tough as you watch like what's going on with Cardi B and Megan the stallion and Lizzo right across the board. Like and how they're being attacked but they also know how to use it as a tool to their advantage and not just them I fundamentally believe Gen Z is going to save us all because it is folks who are coming up who are saying that's wrong. That behavior is incorrect. Like you should like I like I understand that those are the norms and that's fucked up with apologies but I'm right that's the in the fact that they that there is a movement and empowerment and an opportunity for like for for gathering of crowds and gather like an amplification of messages like I think that in the that it can be a tool for good it can be a tool for power and I just like that's what I love to see when it's used that way. It's not monolithic, you know, people easily say you know our blackness is not monolithic and neither is our film, our femaleness, you know, either we have all different forms of who we are. But the one thing that I do like that Tonya said you're absolutely right Lisa people who have children like what's wrong with you right and so I know that you get that slap back but you know people like to say it takes a village but the word that you use appropriately as an adjective it takes a healthy village to raise, you know, a child, or to help sisterhood right and to help the brotherhood. And as far as Cardi B and Lizzo and Magstelian, you know, they want to be with the money reside. Right, when you have to monetize the female body and when Larry was to let monetize the, in fact, I told people the first person that is biblically a pimp was Moses's father in law when he had his daughters do the dance of the seven bells in order to pick out a wife for Moses when he escaped from the desert he said you want to go to desert come on to over here to, to my tent, there's a there's a club going on he was acting like flat for me whether you know, throwing them little gold nuggets out there, you know, but so, so it's not about our sexuality, as it is about the exploitation of our sexuality I remember when the, the young hip hop it wasn't a Dina, she had said that she owned her sexual autonomy right, but it was proven that she didn't I think Cardi B definitely owns it, and sometimes I kind of like whoa like what, what, you know, and that's, but I have that sentiment because there's a lot of women in the trafficking is so the depiction of what they're doing in a hotel corridor is what women I know who are forced to do that are drug in order for them to get through the terror of their experience so when we look at the idea in which we're all sort of subscribed to or, or constricted to the dynamics of who we are sometimes. So, I see like a kaleidoscope right. So we just can't if the bird is that you're one of the bird is that you black or what kind of black woman are you what is your, you know your outreach as far as your social presence of representation of yourself and who is that model for you know I grew up with Diane Ross and I didn't want to wear boa you know in the big hair and sequined dresses all the time, but I get it with young people because I didn't have social media to be such a great influencer. So it's a such a complexity of our identity that we cannot harness and I don't want to harness anybody right I tell people if I don't like the stuff, you know, the door is open nobody chain me to the, to the fence on that right. It's something like, sometimes I want to tell young sisters like biggie smalls you got more but then the ashtray turn your ass around are you going that way, but that's all the moral concept of who you are. It has nothing to do with what you, what you feel yourself, and this of the sensuousness of your body which is on display, right, because God was the first designer with fig leaf we believe that narrative anyway so I just want to let you know that I believe in the uniqueness of our body exposed and exposed because when we look at look at the patriarchal conflict, the people in the work that I do in the Middle East, especially around Afghanistan is that they want to throw a burqa on you right problematic ah, the problem with the Muslim in the American world, they want to take all the clothes off the women are women women anyway, unclothed cover, like it's a bitch right there's no satisfaction in a patriarchal society there's places in Africa where women are run around in the bush still in some places in the Amazon, and some places even you know, shoot, we could say here in some places right without it being a problem about their sexuality and sensuality is how it's co opted, right, and how it's exploited, and more importantly how it's monetized, but the real deal is speaking to back to you about Shakira is that she is 21 years old right and she will make mistakes you know how many mistakes I made thank God social media wasn't around girl they'll be writing encyclopedia on me right so I so my choice I do you really have to tell that yeah you have to be honest when you given the opportunity because even though don't scrub to Bible biblical literacy, we overcome by the testimony of our work that's why it's blacks storytelling like basically we're and snippets here today is so important isn't this it's not just by the blood right we don't want to like draw blood in our tag but it's about how we communicate to let people communicate to let them sit back and have their own pregnant pauses of their identity and live through the air of trial and errors I've been places in the Middle East where children have the age of innocence and girls don't even have the chance to grow to have that period of trial and air that gives you the character that we talk about somewhat here this evening. I'm just so loving this is just speaking to my soul. You know there are people out there who may want to ask us questions so we're going to have a period for that I want to ask you in this world of technology and I have a 24 year old daughter and I find that she makes friends on apps. It disturbs me so greatly. I mean and there have been some challenges and some terrible things have happened, but that's the world we live in now. How do you all even like what are some strategies for building a healthy village or community in this world today. I think I agree with also what Lisa was saying about how the Internet and the way it brings us together and the ways it makes it accessible and other people accessible and knowledge easily you know. We remember going to the library like when I was doing like you know I went to one of the science schools you know Stuyvesant Brooklyn Tech Bronx Science I went to Brooklyn Tech. And so I did a Westinghouse paper, I couldn't get on Google and do my research I had to go to the library and pull up micro fish, you know you turn the knobs and I would try to tell my children about it and they don't they're like, Keke, what do you mean micro fish, what do you mean knobs, what do you mean paper, go to the library, they don't understand it one time they saw a typewriter at a flea market and they were like mom I know what that is is a typewriter right and I was like, you know, I went to college with a typewriter relax, gotta calm down. They think that people who were in, you know, born in the 70s they asked me like, are they still alive. So they, they, they don't know a world, you know my five year olds can get on my phone and FaceTime my father his grandfather they don't know a world where they don't like where every other like where you can just reach out and literally connect with someone they don't know a world in the absence of that. I tried to tell them though is that there is a balance. I absolutely believe that Gen Z is going to save us. But I wonder sometimes about the resiliency, when they do save us. Because for many of them, I watched them all be in a room together I work with young people I have the Alice Fields Community Center for black women girls and marginalized genders. And I know that young people that come through the doors. We just hosted, you know, 20 summer youth employee employees which is such an important program for for young urban black and brown kids in New York City, and I would watch them be in a room with each other and be talking to each other on the phone in the same room. Many of them are dealing with anxiety, I'm talking about diet, nocible anxiety, and my deep deep belief that that is because from the time that they are in utero, they are dealing with so much stimulation that it is having a neurological effect on who they are. Like physiologically, I believe that our ability to constantly be stimulated and take in all of these messages without having the time to process them is literally changing us neurologically as a species. You know, and we see that showing up in some ways around how many young people are dealing with anxiety. How many young people are having, you know, and I think there's a balance right there's a, there is a part of it where young people are like, okay, y'all baby boomers and gen X gen X's could work yourselves to the ground like I'm from the generation where you can have 107 fever, your face could be melting off, you can have bubble guts, you still get up and go to work. Right. This idea that it doesn't matter if you have a job that you hate, are your bills paid. Are you able to get the house. Can you afford your mortgage. Do you have 2.5 kids and a driveway right where I am dealing with some serious issues of feeling like a failure because I have not bought a house yet. Right. Because I come from a generation that says by 40, you should have all of these things that somehow are representative or indicative of your value in a capitalist society because you were able to produce certain things that then allowed you to have access to certain things. And they are saying that's bullshit. And it's bullshit because a white supremacist patriarchal, right. Trans antagonistic homophobic society has created a system where the vast majority of us cannot get that and that's just a narrative that you feed us in order to to exploit us. So there's that piece, but then there's also the piece where these kids get a hangnail and they be like, I just I can't come into work my mental health. Right. And I'm like, right. And I'm holding grace. Right. You know, I am rereading for the third time parable of the sewer by Octavia Butler and the antagonist Laura Olamine talks about the only constant is change. So I strive not to be one of these people who look up at 50 or 60 or 70 and are talking about how the young folks can't do X, Y and Z. I strive to be one of these people who was like, I don't really understand a lot of the shit that y'all do. But I understand that society changes and I want to be flexible enough to just kind of change with it and that what's for you is for you so y'all can go do whatever weird shit y'all are doing. And I would like to have enough space to just go ahead and continue doing the stuff that I'm doing. And we can all have a like a really good quality of life. That's what I strive for. And so I think that Gen Z is the beginning of us getting there, but we have to remember that it's a pendulum. Right. That in order for change to happen, you, you go through extremes, the pendulum is going to swing all the way to the right. Well, that's this my left, it's going to swing all the way to the left, then it's going to swing all the way to the right. And we're going to recognize the ways at the right and at the left, where it does not work. And then maybe we'll start to kind of hang somewhere in the middle. So when people start going on and on about how Gen Z is this and the, I'm like, you got to calm down, you got to relax. Right. You just got to let society do what is going to do and have enough faith that we will all be consistently having the dialogue and dismantling the systems and being able to to subvert systems and create alternative networks and communities that will steal us during those times of extremeness that we can make it back to the middle. I'd like to believe that, but then there's also like the cynical Virgo part of me that's like, it's doomsday, and this is the end of the world. And that's it. But, you know, every generation has said that. And yet here we are one generation after another continuing changing and trying to figure it out the best way that we can. I think that when we think about, you know, the theory of evolution, we think about it from a physiological standpoint. And there is that I talked a little bit about the ways that all of this is changing us neurologically. But I think we also forget about the ways in which we evolve in terms of our humanity, how we evolve in terms of how we figure out how to live as human beings right, that we have this gift and this curse of reasoning, right, and a free will, like a tiger going to do with a tiger going to a cheetah going to do with a cheetah going to do with an iguana going to do with an iguana going to do, they are just that is it is just what it is. But human beings have the ability to take information, assess it, decide if they're going to do one thing being conflict with another group of people, and then also create different ways of existing in the world. And hopefully what we are now seeing is that we are on the cusp of figuring out some differentness that will bring parody inequality to the two more of us. But before we get there we have to understand that you got to get down in the peak before you hit the valley that it's going to be comfortable before we get comfortable. And I think some of us tend to lose sight of that, and just go right to the, like, you know, the four siren alarms. And, you know, we should, I feel like we just have to have some faith and some hope. Right, to just to relax and calm down and I think that's the work that many of us are in the business of doing right, or been called to do to find our communities that we just got to have faith. To your point yesterday in my class at fist University I was telling young people just what you said about the hierarchy of the food chain right and the whole notion that the only difference between us, and every other God creation is that we have free will, and I refer to Pharrell song about freedom like, you know how goes Giselle go because of the I think I don't know if it's the tiger lion chasing, but with only ones who can stop and have some sort of rationale reason. And to my young sisters right I do, I do believe that they are the future but you know even when I sing this song, I really love music. I believe the children are future only when they're informed just like we say our ancestors the information doesn't have to be my story even though I use storytelling as a vehicle and to which to get them to basically try to tell me their story because this is not a church of me, right I go to the church of us. So if I can get you to tell our story, and then then we'll see where the lines blend rather than blur. And also, I believe that, you know, when we're talking about the mentorship and the young people, and the leading of young people and we talk about sense of history you can't teach history from a blank page. Right. So that is incumbent for us to show up with our stories. At least they have something, if not to actually direct contact with us, but to ways in which you know how they, how they look in at us. I remember looking at the women in the nation of Islam like, Do I want to be this or do I want to be the church women you know the Baptist church or do I want to be like that or Austin I decided no I don't want to wear the secret in my class. So, but the thing about it is when we show up as authentic cells, right Tanya and Lisa and Tonya. Then it's like reading a book, an author can write a book. Right. Or like I tell my students again, when you research Google I told them that to like girl you're my class is dropping yesterday, but you know how I went to school when I was taking computers this whole wall was a computer and they had to feed those little white cars with full train language like what they couldn't you know comprehend that they couldn't comprehend that at all. But when we talk about creating this form of narrative. We had to learn how to extrapolate from those individuals but we have to be present sometimes, you know sometimes if I'm just was sitting around my mother, I learned a lot through observation. I'm going to say what are we, what are we trying to teach in their lives, what can, what is upon them to to get, and when they do their research papers when I tell them like how we become this artificial intelligence because when research papers are now I told them is to the infinite finiteness of Google, right, because somebody else has already done the work for you I'm like you like I had to talk about raw data at fish girl I had to, I had to go out to the bush and get the stuff I'm talking about, like where they at, where they at, jump in the boat, jump in the boat, you know, I'm like almost an archeologist when I had to do stuff you had to like, whoa, dirty and everything, and that's not afforded to them so again what to the danger of me what I think they're suffering not only the tech fatigue, but also this really opportunity to do a just saute a moment. I think therefore I am I'm taking my fifth university scholar students out like their kindergarten students out so they could fill the earth of the trail of tears we go down to a plantation owned by the former ambassador of the African Union. We talked to someone from Haiti so that's it you hear what I said my experiences where I want you to hear straight from the woman, what, what the real strength of blackness is by watching a film about Tucson the overture who fought the French the Spanish and the British and within their own internecine squabblings right and how he died without seeing like the vision like Dr. King and Moses, and the complexity of him only slaves himself and the French on slavery when he thought economically the Republic could not get itself together again without slavery right so the complexity of blackness complexity of our female identity and the complexity of the hood in which we live out. I listen often to back on the block Quincy Jones right and I said like yeah we need to get together this woman I want to talk about how I'm back on the block and how I am now, but who puts me on the block right we should do that was five of us I'm going to be iced tea, you know back on the block. We should do that like how we back on the block because what he said was Quincy gave them all the opportunity to be seen for ice cubes narrative. He said because he told me don't change, don't change your words don't change what you write, because you'll be out overnight and so I listened to all those components of me and sisters need to say back on the block and what does it mean to show up right respectfully authentically and that commitments we make first and foremost to our authenticity to ourselves and then have community to believe us but remember it was Quincy that put them back on the block. So we have the fort we need to build this block so we can show up, speak our truths and then dance to it because it's a like y'all have given me so much information I know people who are listening if you have questions you can put them in the chat, and we're in about five minutes going to take any questions that you have. I'm going to say again like you all are just speaking to my soul today. I feel like, you know when you grew up and you were out in the dirt and someone was mean with you, you either punched them in the nose and they punched you in the nose, and so you got to develop a real toughness or you went home and cried. But the violence was right in front of you, and you either met it, or you ran away from it, but whatever it was you got a bodily, visceral experience of something you walked away with experience. Now you have this, the phones you can't see my phone because of the my my my thing, but you have phones, and violence is coming to you in a place and a way in which you are powerless, you get no experience you're just constantly being hit with attacks. You know, massage and lower, you get hit with everything and there's nothing you can do about what comes through you at the screen. So you experience all this violence, but you don't experience getting to fight flee or freeze. Yeah, I think that's, I think that's right I think this goes back to the amplification of it right. It said it's all coming at you doesn't turn off it is it is you can be across town you can be a cross the continent you can be across an ocean to when all the start steps coming in. And, you know, I think you, the, the ultimate question you asked was, what are the tips and what are the strategies for building healthy relationships and community. And I think that some of the stuff that is intrinsic and I get this this comes back right massage noir is not new it is from from jump from the time you come out of the womb. And how people and society, your community people around you, how society treats you how you are educated what you're all the stuff that's coming just walking down the street. But it for me I think, you know, the skill that we need to make sure that our children continue to learn is self belief is self confidence is self possession right it's not. It's it can't just be about how you're being judged it's about your loving yourself. And, and it's hard in the face of a constant barrage to your point yes it is it is it is amplified it's in your face now all of the time. But I think it continues to be the same skill that we learned as we were coming up which is like you are beautiful. You are smart you are enough you are okay you can you know. That is a thing that that I think we also have to train folks coming up behind us to kind of continue to reinforce the love themselves. All right, so I'm going to ask you about how you get to love yourself because for me, growing up, I remember going to school. And I kind of figured out pretty soon that if you parroted back what the teacher said, you would get an A. And I kept thinking when I got to the next level of school that that was going to be different. Like when I get to college, they're actually going to want to know what I think, and we're going to actually have some discussion. But I got to college and it was more of just parrot back what the teacher says and that gets you the good grade. So, I left college kind of just thinking I wasn't very smart. Because I was just, I wasn't, you know, nobody knew anything about me or seemed interested so how am I going to. I mean, I, and I know I'm one of the smartest people I know, but I didn't know that through the education system that I went through because success had nothing to do with what I had read or experienced or known nobody was even interested or even asking. I mean, I'll just say for me. So yes, everything you just said. The truth is my moment happened, what, five years ago when I worked at the White House for President Obama. That was the first time that I was like, Oh, wait, maybe I'm worthy. I mean, I don't like it was because I've like I've reached a pinnacle like I from where I come from to where I am like I'm like, Oh, oh, oh, oh, wait, like now I'm worthy right and so you're you're you're right. I mean, I think I think this goes back to it takes a village not just to raise raise kids but also it's having your your peer support it's having that that reflection and and and pulling that energy from wherever you can I don't know if anybody else has but yeah, no, to your point, mine just happened just recently. Growing up, like I said in the 50s I challenged my father who called me I'm sorry, Tonya, he called me Martian I wouldn't respond to him because my name was Marcia and he has stayed around long enough he would have known what my mama had named me, but I was kicked out of the nation of Islam by Elijah Muhammad because I challenged him on message to the black man when I discovered Malcolm X and why Malcolm X was a treat I cussed out you know Jesse Jackson and some presidents who are still alive and sometimes like you know God ain't like, because I keep telling God if I had to keep on working the miracles why I need you. Right, so I have. Kid and kindergarten give my money for my knuckle to the United Way go home and watch my mother struggle and go back to the next day I saw my teacher back and she's trying to tell me I'm selfish I said no you, you need to come to my house and see my mama we need the United Way at my house I'm saying this is six years old right, but then when I grew as I got older and then relationships form you and some things maybe systematic with my father being problematic. You see how you then sort of like constrict yourself, so it wasn't the university, it was just this society and the ideal for my generation because no matter how strong I was as a teenager my 20s when you get to your 30s, you know, you, you had you didn't have this just just out there I'm the only one like that I hadn't met because I didn't have the mentors right so all I'm right now is conformers rather than transformers. Right, and it took me maybe two more decades I like just this ain't working for me so let me just break out the box again and now I'm this crazy one you can't tell me shit you can teach me something but you can't tell me to shit because my truth is my shoot and on that's between me and my God unless you've been in my shoes you can walk it you can take the trail but you can walk it not even high heels or bare feet right. And I, but I think that's when I said we have to allow ourselves we have to allow those people to have their trail, right, and to have their mistakes as we all have said, and to most importantly to have their authenticity I don't care what people can say about me with the words and I know this is big and cancel culture and you know the whole add is sticks and stones can hurt my break my bones with words will never hurt for me you know you can talk about my mama she's dead I you know I mean whip your ass on the street corner. At the time when I was like really rough and tough at five you know beating kicking people but in the neighborhood because it was rough back then. But what is written sometimes and we see in our policies can hurt us those words but talking about me, you know, cancel me because everybody makes their mistakes, especially with the word which goes back to what you were saying very early about, you know the women can tell me a soccer say that she's having a mental problem can, you know some all about bills have us basically have this breakdown moment that she has to be Michael Jordan to play with at 104 degrees right why you compare her to Michael Jordan to sports and to genders I don't get it but anyway how can we not have our frailty but again, what are the pickups who are the people to pick us up and we have those moments it's like you said to mentor. I do have a couple friends who actually wanted to mentor, you know, our, our Olympian racer because we saw that she had the lack of it when you really go and look who's around her. She needs to be snatched up a little bit and cleaned up not from her aesthetics but the things that have been sold her inside her chakras and things have blocked her heart and and lesson for blinders, even though she's a great runner I have to help her refer view is obvious from her personal life. There's blinders on her. I'm loving this energy, but I love powerful women and so for me, I'm kind of in like, I'm like, oh, women like me you know disruptive women who just do what they got to do. People are listening like they don't have any questions is because they don't think that they can do what we can do. I want to say that I got to do what I can do, because I've been knocked down. I have failed so many times that there's just nothing that could come from the head of me that I haven't been through in the past. So there's just nothing I fear, going forward. And so sometimes it's like you just got to face the fear and find out that it doesn't kill you. And then you realize massage and why whatever it is. Yeah, bring it on and let's let's keep it. There's a younger generation of people who are getting tired of being resilient and I feel that I feel that in the marrow of my bones, the work that I do for young black women and femmes and what we call marginalized genders and that's a whole different conversation to get into this idea of gender as a spectrum and not as a binary Right. Words are violence right and words do hurt. They hurt sometimes just as much as sticks and stones. And if enough people say those words over and over again right you they say be careful what you think right because then that what you think and your thoughts become words and those things become character and those characters And then those actions make up the the the marrow of what is our society right so for me to say that maybe I don't care what people say about me on a personal level is cool, but I do care what people continually say about dark skin phenotypical black women over and over and over again because We care, we care, but we're not resilient, then we just gone exceed stings is we just gonna become extinct, like, we may not like being resilient, but resilience is the only way that we go forward, genetically, like I hear that, but I also think that when we talk about resilience. We also have to hold space that they're for those of us who came through. There's like three of us that didn't. And I think that that's a reality we have to contend with. I think I can't talk about my resistance without talking about it, talking about it in the context of that there are women, right, who did not come through And I mean that quite literally, right women who have been driven out of their mind, who have had their children taken away and their kids and they've been the system, and those kids end up dead, right, that we have communities where we are being dragged into allies and harmed right where, you know, like, I think that, yes, resilience but I also feel like sometimes we talk about resilience and I'm not saying that anybody on this panel is saying that, but I just want to give this I offer this perspective that sometimes it starts to feel a little bit like the onus is on those of us who are consistently and constantly and systematically being oppressed and subjugated and harmed right and disemboweled in all of these different ways. Right. And I think what Gen Z is now saying is, don't ask me for resilience. What I need you to do is get together and get society together. So I don't have to live in a society that requires for me to steal myself against the constant onslaught of violence. And I think that it might very well be high time that that's where we put our energy that we put our energy into dismantling these systems that it's not about, girl, you need to get your shit together. So that these things don't hurt you anymore that it's us being like, oh no, it's time for us to get together like those women in India, right, who get together in the in the face of not being protected. When one of them is harm, they all get together with literal sticks and stones and pots and pans, and they beat the asses of the men who would harm their sister. I love that idea. The policies that are written for women, right. And I didn't want to be flipping and saying that because I, you know, like I said, I work with traffic women. And with a lot of young women and they're like 26 year olds having justifiable midlife crisis. I'm like, Okay, I get it. So let's talk. I'm like, I'm shocked, right. We all have this sort of strength that we all have on this panel and kind of admit you, but what what what will break you though, right, what stick will break you at that given point is what we have to address. And, and I think that when you hear so collectively as you said and I do hear from young women, especially during COVID. It was very painful, you know, having to hear some of the stories and being on watch for so many of them, who were not coupled or didn't have those children who got on your nerves you thought every day until you had COVID and you had somebody to look at, you know, that it became so problematic when you're requested alone because loneliness regardless of our gender isn't itself a form of pandemic. When you don't have that community you can be in a crowd and if you still fill in loneliness or an American for the longest, then that's detrimental. As long as we as long as we do not have voice and cannot articulate that in some form or fashion as well so thank you time for more. Great point I apologize for mispronouncing your name earlier. Oh no that's okay. You can be like my daddy for real. Talk about what will break us and to go to Tanya's original question about like how do we build this thing right. I think it is about us taking the stigma off of breaking that we can be resilient, but that we're not an adamant like that we're not steel that we are flesh and bone and marrow and tissue and muscle, and that it rips and it tears and it breaks, and it's taking the stigma off of that. Like, so I want to use this analogy a lot when I when I do like public speaking right where I talk about you ever heard a choir like one of these big choirs, and then they they hold these notes, these sustained notes that seem almost impossible. How can anybody hold a note that long, because no one person's holding the note. What happens is, there's a bunch of people hold the note and the other people drop out to take a breath. And then when those people who are singing need a breath the people who took a breath jump back in and hold a note to. We have to take the stigma off of breaking of tearing of ripping of coming apart and be like there's a bunch of us who are like all right well I'm in my moment of strength we have to see resiliency as a thing that ebbs and flows that you know what in 2020 I was strong in 2021. I'm a mess. I'm a glass menagerie. I need some help. And that there are a group of us, right who are like girl fall the pieces, because we holding a note right now. We got you. There's the mutual aid. There's some folks that's going to help you. There's some folks over here who are working on trying to get a policy around universal basic income, at least during the pandemic right like we have to think about the ways in which we say what do we need individually, but also how do we build a community that is subverting the systems that are harming us now to create some sort of alternative that will catch us when we fall that will hold us when we break apart. And not only will it hold us when we break apart, but it will hold up a mirror to show us what's inside that's the beautiful thing about breaking right when you break apart, you get to see what you're made of. And that's when we realize where our strength is because you get to realize that you are made of stardust and cocoa powder and the dreams of your great grandmother's right and and and and and all of the warrior women that came before you right and all of the the earth mothers and goddesses that have allowed you to be here, you get to understand that from a statistical standpoint, you are a living miracle. Every one of us here as the as as as descendants of people who came through the diaspora, who survived the transatlantic slave trade or colonialism or imperialism, right. We are miracles. We are literally the manifestations of those of us who are existing in the bottom of the ocean. This kind of slavery. You're a miracle. Even when you fall apart, you like, I'm dead though. I want to ask, you know, you want to say something, but I want to ask you when you add to this that you are building a system, technical a technical system to help dismantle some of this harm that gets done specifically in the workplace so say what you were going to say and then please speak to that. Yeah, I think I just want to actually really want to build on on the things that Marcia and Tonya have said to which is, which is I think a couple things first of all one of the things that we actually often say again I mentor a lot of black women coming up and you know it's it's you need to have the confidence of a white of a mediocre white man, right that idea of like of you will figure it out you like just trust know you're not always going to have the answers but Tonya Tonya this is what you were saying right which is like, you got this doesn't matter what happens you won't figure it out you're going to work on it and so that's, you know that's something that I kind of part pretty continuously. But I actually really like the time he said which is like, why is resilience considered a badge of honor. But how does that that that that that should not be the way right we should not have to live through all of this. I do appreciate the other point which is what we should humanize resilience right we should. And social media we go back to the amplification like that is another beautiful thing that we see in people share publicly things that have never been talked about before, whether it's a, you know just like across the board, and it helps to know just that somebody else is going through it somebody else had an experience that you can relate to, and, and using that as we think about kind of the downsides of social media how do we actually use that to uplift and to and to build on each of those experiences. I think, I think the other thing that really jumps out of me and this is exactly actually thank you for that. What technical tries to do, which is the challenges is we're not getting rewarded for our resilience either. Right, so, especially like you talk about like black folks black women specifically are always starting to look and to solve problems are doing all this but they don't get any of the recognition they get no credit for how far they have come what systems they have changed because they're operating outside of this other system. And so, and so to me that's a big part of it like it'd be one thing. If we have to be resilient right which ideally we aren't to the second thing is like at least we should get some some benefit of the doubt we should get some credit for all that we have experienced and gone through and come through the other side on. And I think this goes back to something else that y'all were saying which was, it's not us that's broken it's the system. Right when you look at all of the different things that people are putting into place and again, sorry my world is tech and so right Google has this program where they're going to, they're going to train 10,000 black women they're going to fix 10,000 black women is how I read that. Why not fix the system, why is it us that's broken, right the fact that we haven't been able to succeed the fact that we haven't been able to get ahead, right that's not, that's not on us, right it's about like stop blaming us, like actually fix the system that is going to open up welcome us let us in must be included and reward us and recognize for the skills, the, the history and everything that comes before us that we bring with us because that's the stuff that's not valued. It's not recognized we don't get paid for it. And that's the stuff that needs to change. And also give us like get out the way so we can get access to the stuff right like that so I vacillate you got to catch me depending on the month and what's going on in the world. You know, sometimes I just I really be on my like, you know, I don't want to sit in nobody's table get out of the way so I can get access to the nails to the hammer to the wood glue to the screws to the drill to build my own table. And then I get to invite who I want to sit at the table. And then we make a collective decision on what the place that is going to look like what we're serving on the menu. We're going to have vegan alternatives. Do we want to use China or disposable plates like like sometimes I don't even want this idea of like oh let's fix this table so we can all sit here. Like, girl by like all of this stuff that you're trying to do anyway was built on our backs, right like just get out of the way and like I always stay to us. What would we look like in the absence of what people have done to us. Right. What does the world look like. Yes. Right. What does the world look like in the absence of the white gaze. Well, but sometimes I think it looks like them. And do we want to be that. Absolutely. You know, kind of what to your point I kind of imagine the play the day of time telling you you know this play the day of absence right when we disappear and white people like what we gonna do y'all we we don't know how to take care of the kids who go pick up the garbage is going to do the cooking. And for us that was a due teeth moment in that portray of that particular play because what what are you going to do. If you exploited us right and we take away your exploitation of us then you got to deal with your stuff that's why I say race is a white man's burden that I try to be doing that. During the pandemic that pan the pandemic has been that play. That is why they want all of this stuff to that's why they're pretending that the pandemic is not really still happening. Right because they want to go get haircuts, they want to go to the movies, and they need Tanisha and Pedro and everybody else to go back to their low wage subservient jobs so that they can continue to experience the world of privilege. The rest of us are like girl let's talk about universal basic income. Some of us are like yes it's been hard. I don't want to get put out of my house, but it feels good to be able to be home with my kids. So why do you get home and do nothing. Right, we're like oh actually I realized the way that the Department of Education and public school system been failing my kids, and we all of a sudden in the hood, I am seeing homeschooling collections pop up. Women on welfare are teaching their children with other women on welfare and they doing a damn good job right like folks are going back to the library. It's so unique. So, you know, and I'm not romanticizing that we, I mean the pandemic has also really stretched a lot of these disparities right and many of our communities that are low income and cash poor our tender boxes, but we got off the treadmill to use a colonial capitalist, you know, oppression, and we were like, Oh, I actually don't need all those things they said I needed that I had to work so hard and not have any relationships and that I can have less. I can relationship means more to me, I can do more with less because this relationship thing is more important to me than all the things I can get from running myself raggedy to the day I die. We got a question. Do black play a role in the dismantling of Miss Sergeant war. Absolutely. Okay. As we talked about it doesn't just come from from from white men and white women are folks of other races. It is it is as black folks we have internalized it. The patriarchy is real no matter what race you are. And as is white supremacy and so and and that is as we started the conversation about how how black women hate on black women to write it is not just it is not just other and just the outside. So I just want to add on terms of what Tony was saying which is like this is a conversation we have also which is like, if we did not have this tax on us, imagine what we could create. Imagine, like what we would have we would we would already be on Mars, like as humans right like that is that that is the challenges the amount of time and energy that we have to invest takes away from all of our other possibilities so I just that the tax is real. I had a conversation with my husband and regarding, you know, and he said the feminist going to tear you to par for sentence I said well, you got understand men are victims of patriarchy to because there's only one power and it's white power and so white mediocre man and you black guys not in it but you're socialized to think it. And that's why you get beaten down because you're in the struggle with us and don't realize that you are a victim of patriarchy when I say patriarchy. So who who the real power power that rules all of us and put us all on this boat making us think that some of us like the Titanic on the lower bowels, and the other other us on the top of it, you know, selling smooth no you hit that wave we're all shuffled, because even the person who own who was the top of the pantry, he ain't even on the boat right. He's just paying the person who's the ship captain to take you to a destination that may not really be your own. And any feminist who would tear you apart actually isn't a feminist and has not done any kind of real analysis, because we understand that patriarchy is as harmful to men, especially non white men, as it is to women. I think one of the things that for a lot of men, the vitriol and the massage noir that they lob at black women is rooted in jealousy. It is rooted in black women's ability to have a full range of emotion that they are, then they are given. Right. Like I can come to y'all and be like I'm vulnerable. And I don't feel good about myself. And these things happen to me and y'all will go sister. All right girl. But a lot of black men live in communities where if they said I don't feel good about myself I got body image issues. You know I'm saying it really hurt me that my father's not around. I'm feeling depression because of my relationship with my mother. Other men would be like nigga what's wrong with you you all right don't come in talking that whack shit man I mean we see it already. The ways that we and you know I say that men created patriarchy but women will gate keep it. And so both men and women will be telling boys man up. Man up he's a child. You know I'm saying like you know and so and these gender roles that we we subscribe to them very early on, you know gender reveal parties, which to me always seem very bizarre. And then they bust the balloon and they open the cake and the cake is pink and everybody falls apart and they're sad. Right. Right or they open it is blue and they're there they're so happy. And then you know your little blue boy because 14 turns out to be a burgeoning little Nas X or tells you that actually I've been living my whole life feeling like a girl and I don't want to be called Taiwan anymore. I think I'm actually Tunisia and your whole world falls apart and you put this child out because you feel so disappointed that your son is not your son, but actually is telling you that they're your daughter. It patriarchy steal so much from them, but they don't so many of them don't even have the language and what happens is massage noir tells them early on that black women right or women in general are already in inherently inferior to them. So when we try to invite them to the conversation when we offer them some language they're like man I trying to hear that because you just a woman anyway. And so other men then don't say, you know what, if we if we all got, you know what I'm saying Eric Dyson in our life, you know what I'm saying already be like listen to black women, right, and that, and all of these other things that if we don't have more men in the community, who are afraid to be called simps who are going to go out there and do the thankless and tireless and hard work of turning it around. Right. Then the message gets lost, because so many boys and men inherently think that if the message is coming from a woman, then already it doesn't mean anything it has no inherent value. The time is, is coming to an end, and I mentioned that I had a question that I wanted to ask you I'm so grateful to have been in conversation with you it's been so empowering for me to, to listen to powerful black women who are owning that power and standing in that power and so I know how much you do for other people and how much you do for the world and because we are on the internet and this is live and, you know, is people crowdsource everything now the crowdsource technology crowdsource everything. I wanted each of you to take a moment and talk about something that you want or need something that who knows somebody out here might hear it and it might come your way, I know that it's possible. So, what, what, what, what do you need, what do you want doesn't have to be a need it can be just a want. Let's just jump in there see when we when black women asked what they need and what they want to we all we we sure like I will acknowledge that in that moment I was like, Oh God, if I if I if I actually say that I need this thing then maybe it will be seen as is not noble or something like that. You know we like like like you said Lisa we all internalize it. Back in May, I opened up a community center under the black feminist project the community center is named after my grandmother, she was an unmarried mother of seven and a community activists and and, you know, for education and for gentrification was it related to the disparities that created in the educational system, and I didn't find any of that out until after she passed three or four years ago. And so we named our community center after her because I think we also need to amplify the, the, the, the women who are it, who aren't going to have the notoriety of Tony Morrison or Audrey Lord or bell hooks or 17 McClark or sojourner truth or Harriet Tubman, but they are the glue that holds our community together my grandmother was she you know she was a bucket filler. And so her name is Alice fields. Her name was Alice fields I still talk about it in the present tense because I feel her with me all the time. So the Alice fields Community Center for black woman girl and marginalized genders opened in May. And we are developing programming. We need and want facilitators who will come to the community to do skills sharing. And we particularly want people in the community to do that. But in order to facilitate that this is a capitalist society, good works alone. And Marcia you know this I was on your, I was on your website last night girl. That's the good work alone does not get things funded. So we need the funding if people go to the black feminist project.org you will see a donate now. We also have a list. If people feel more comfortable donating things in kind. We want to we at the center and where I live is the poorest congressional district in the country. So we want to be able to give women diapers when they come in and they have come in for diapers to give them formula when they come in and they have come in for formula to keep our pantry stock and they do come in for and take from the pantry. We run a food box twice a month where people get fresh grown food right from Governor's Island, and then we buy the shelf stable items to put along with that milk bread. You know, sustainable meats oils butter all of it like we give and we do it according to family size, not this one size fits off you say that six people in your family, we're going to give you a box for six people. You know, we do workshops, all that kind of stuff we had some little girls in the neighborhood coming in and we taught them how to make soap, you know, and the little 14 year old is pushing her brother, who's like six months old, you know, out around the neighborhood. And we just saw them and invited them in and then they just show up every day to just come and sit and play with the toys and hang out. And so we need consistent funding for that and so I do my work around philanthropy. I do my dance a shucking job I write my grants and all that kind of stuff, but we also need the sustenance from the community. So if people want to and they have the ability to please go to our website, the black feminist project or and leave a little money on the nightstand and then go just one more step further and hit up a few. Oh, what happened. I don't know. Oh, wow. Oh, she lost her internet. There you are. You came back. In essence what you're saying though Tonya, before you came on, I said when Tonya kind of like gave us a little preview to what she was going to ask and I started singing Tina Turner's but you know wonder up the money I want a billion dollars. And I want that because you can give, like I said I'm an empath and I do a lot of humanitarian work here through my United Justice Coalition through the roles of sexual trafficking organization. You got to have something to give something that I want to live by the sea because it exhaust you and I think of the sea because of being a Scorpio woman. You know, water always cleanses me it calms me. So I want that and I want to, and I do hope you know that the work that we do we have this elevated and evolve human family, right it doesn't I'm not going to try to try to subscribe it to a family which they try to do but I do want this global family piece but right now I just want the billion dollars and be by the sea and that you got to have something right in order to give something I want to be able to give because I'm asked so much. And so often so yeah that's what I want. So far we got the black feminist project or if you're out there hit it up right now make a donation if you have some services that you can give in the community. Donate your time and your services in the community. Also, United Justice Coalition, you have some money you're going to donate there we're trying to raise a billion dollars there and house by the sea. House by the sea Marcia Dyson wants that house by the sea. I know it's out there. Marcia, I actually know you have, you have access to the house by the sea. By the way, you can come visit me in my house by the sea. Okay, so there it is. I have a house by the sea. So come hang out with me in my house by the sea. Okay. And now I'm gonna be away from it for a while you want to go stay at it when I'm gone. I'm going to put my book and put you in the acknowledgments. Okay, Lisa. Yeah for so I just want to say I am so grateful to have had this hour and a half and this conversation and to meet these phenomenal women that I have not met before and I just like this has just been this has given me life and it has given me energy. And I appreciate it one to Tanya. Again, I know you want folks from the community. If I so I do I do stuff in technology I have done some stuff in technology. I help launch Hulu. I've done some stuff I used to run digital at BT. If I can come and speak to anybody in your community that like it's like to your to your to your to your center if that's something that would be valuable I'd be happy to do that. Hopefully, I want more little black girls to see themselves in tech, right, because tech right now reflects the society that we live in so even technology we think of as objective, it's not. And we need more people writing code understanding how tech works thinking about the ways they can get into it what is the pipeline into tech look like, you know, I would love to see more black women who look like us, you know, I would like to see black black girls in tech in tech, so please Lisa, I will throw the red carpet open for you I make an amazing sangria, I make jams and preserves. I got you girl you know I run mama Tanya's kitchen, I will make you a nice meal, I do this this this biscuit bread pudding. I want to come home with the care package. One is more this conversation. So, so my ask is, ultimately what checkable is trying to do right so we are doing it at the company level at the organizational level. We do it with nonprofits we do it with with small companies big companies were working with production companies were kind of across the board. We're legitimately trying our, our darned is to make systemic change. And so for me that really means kind of promoting that that right there's a lot of people who are doing kind of like looking for a silver bullet like how do we actually change systemic injustice. Right what equitable tries to do is help help organizations help create work culture that works for everyone that create safe inclusive and equitable workplaces. There is no there is no other platform like ours there and we don't literally don't make a better as nobody does what we do, because nobody knows that it exists. Right. So, for us being able to like what part of what we try to do is right help with with micro inequities micro aggressions right like how do you actually change culture within an organization. And, and, and time we talked to somebody they're like oh my god where have you been all my life. I didn't know that there was a solution that could help with the some of this stuff. And so for me, it's the idea of when people actually want to affect change it's not going to be your one time single unconscious bias training or your or your annual anti sexual harassment training that's not going to get it done. And so the idea of like for folks who are committed to actually want to make want to make that systemic and long term change, like just letting people know that there are solutions out there, and that we exist. Tell us what tech does give us a little more specifics. So, so tech with a bullies using technology to work make workplaces more equitable. And we are a third party tech enabled platform to try to prevent issues of bias discrimination and harassment in the workplace. But so for example, if my boss, you know makes a sexist crack or or tries to touch my hair right that's not the personality of who they are, I'm not going to go to HR for that, because that feels like the nuclear option and I'm not trying to get them fired for it, but I would like the behaviors to stop. Leap side of it is, if I feel like I'm being overly discriminated against or harass right then I want the company to take immediate action. And so what equitable tries to do is help the employee in either of those situations figure out what their next step should be and how they go forward. And then simultaneously companies often don't have a great sense for what's happening on the ground day to day in their culture. And so we try to provide data and insights back to them. So we provide a sounding board for employees where they can come get advice, explore their options figure out what their next step should be and then while they're doing that we gather data that we anonymize and aggregate and we use that to identify systemic issues within the organization's culture. We created for a report for the management team with actionable recommendations right. So for us it's really important to work on both sides of this equation because we want to empower and support employees, but we also want to help companies identify and address the issues early before they escalate right trying to create this virtuous cycle and systemic change. That's my spiel. Thank you, ladies, equitable. The United Justice Coalition and black feminist project, I feel so blessed and honored to have been with you. I thank everyone who's listening share these conversations with your friends and and support these women who are just powerful powerful gifts to all of us on the planet and join us in September for a black woman's lens on spirituality and sexuality. So I thank you all for being with us and let's say bless everyone and wear a mask for the rest of your life because another corona virus is coming after this one. The virus is the apex predator on the planet right now.