 What's up everyone? Welcome to Simulation. I'm your host Alan Sacian. Very excited to be talking about society and tech. We have Jeremiah Oyal joining us on the show. Hey, I'm glad to be here. Thank you so much for coming on. Really appreciate it. Yeah. So pumped for this conversation. Jeremiah's background is fascinating. I'm pumped to jump into things with you. Your industry reports are just some of the best synthesis of society and tech. And so I've loved diving into them and we're going to unpack those, especially where humanity is going, which is very, very cool. Let's jump into things with your thoughts on the overall direction of our world. Pretty uncertain, pretty scary. I think we have a lot of things to overcome. I see a lot of challenges. But this morning I made a list actually. I was thinking about all the things we overcame in just the last 100 years. Two world wars, fascism, helping to repair the ozone layer, acid rain, cold war. We overcame those. So I know the challenges that are coming now we can overcome if we work together. What do you think is one of the most critical skills for us to embody to make sure that we can overcome the biggest challenges together? Yeah, it's thinking as a collective. And right now we're a lot of people are thinking as individuals. The hope is technology can help unite us, but in some cases it's creating divisions. And I think that's really the opportunity and we need to think bigger as the planet is an ecosystem. It is our home. It's our only home. We have one spaceship. This is it. There's not enough resources to go to another spaceship at this moment in time. We got to take care of this one. That's what I think about. Yeah, it's really important for us to have at least a strong relationship between our individual self-actualization as well as the collective self-actualization and harmonize those. Okay, let's talk about your journey. This is going to be cool. I wonder how you became so fascinated with all of these different fields because I myself am also super polymathic in that sense. Who were you growing up and how did you get interested in this? That's a big topic. I've liked the arts and media. As you know, I came into your house and I immediately started to fascinate around the musical instruments you had here. I love that aspect and then just just grew up with a lot of music in my life. But I became fascinated with new topics and, of course, technology and then I tracked these things. I tracked tech trends and how they changed society for the good and bad and then what do society and businesses who tend to be my customer base? What do they do and what should they do? Really, that's what I've done. Yes, okay. I see. You had these roots of being a synthesis when you were younger and then picking from different fields and trying to make maybe valuable insights for people. I think you nailed it. So synthesis is what I like to do. Like literally when I see unstructured things in the world, like in a market, I structure them and you'll see that in my graphics. By the way, I don't have an OCD. I'm not going to go and clean your house for you. That's not what I do. But I just like to find the patterns and see if the patterns repeat. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't. But often they do and you look close enough. Yeah. Yeah. Like literally, you can see the industries replicate over and over. I've seen a couple patterns now, which has been helpful. But also you see how technology replicates bio structures too. So these are all related. Networks are networks, whether they're made out of carbon or they're made out of silicon. They're very similar. Yes, yes, yes. Wow, this it seems like it's an imperative in nature, the formation of just like you'd illustrate in your graphics like the collaborative economy you illustrate in a honeycomb. For a specific reason. So the honeycomb is nature's one of nature's perfect geometries. So you can put a trim. First of all, there's no wasted spaces between a hexagon cell, right? Versus if there were circles, you'd have small little triangles in between them. It's wasted space. Bees ain't got time to waste space. They're very efficient. And also you can put a lot of weight on a honeycomb structure, unlike a squared boxed pattern, which would collapse at a just a slight angle. So by design, honeycombs are one of the strongest and most efficient structures. So that's why I wanted to organize the market and the graphic around that because bees have had it right for a millennia. So there's an example of the patterns. Yes, yes, yes. And in this graphic, you go and begin showing how humans have innovated in transit, how they've innovated in food, how they've innovated in health and well-being, how they've innovated in manufacturing. I mean, you show all of these different fields. And then you also indicate that a lot of the time these corporations that are literally your clients are building very, they're eager to build innovation, like innovation departments and innovation strategies that are able to connect them closer to their end customers that they're serving. So hopefully we can have some links or show in the show the honeycomb itself. But essentially the second part of the reason for that module is or for that diagram is because it's many individuals working together as a collective and now they're using technology. Now, so bees, they do a number of ways. They have pheromones, they also have a waggle dance. Did you know they dance? Their butts point the direction of the flowers and the pollen and they actually point certain frequencies and the dance and the direction which indicates the distance that the others need to go to find that. So it's this way of working together. Now the same thing with tech. Bees shake their tails. You see that's perfect. That is a perfect waggle dance. They waggle and they rotate. That tells the other bees how far away the flower pollen. That's right. And we had to invent GPS to do what they do already so perfectly to identify where is their shared house? Where is their shared ride? Where is their shared food? Where is their on-demand products that I can borrow or goods? And or where can I get information? And it's actually very similar and they're doing it peer to peer. So technology is emulating that but the technologies we're using are mobile platforms with GPS and payment systems and we and GPS on a map is the same thing as that bees doing a waggle dance. So it's a way of identifying as we digitize the world where are the resources that we can share as a collective? As a result, businesses like you have emerged that enable that and the traditional corporations which are very isolated, big corporations are isolated. They're not collaborative to the network in that sense. They make things and they push them out the door. They're not as connected but digital has forced them to connect to the ecosystem. And as you know in your really smart audience and community knows that those that are connected are more resilient. They have more power, right? So they're realizing they have to open the doors and be connected to the ecosystem. And as a result it means they're now car companies are renting their cars or sharing their cars. They're emulating what the collective is already doing. Hotels are purchasing their own versions of Airbnb to make homes available for sharing because they know there's resilience in being connected to the community. So you can see this pattern of nature is being replicated by consumer tech which is being replicated by the stoic industries and institutions that need to follow what nature has already done. So in a way it's I don't know it's interesting. Emergent properties that yes it's emergence that these different nodes in nature independently don't behave in the same way that when they collectively the hive of bees collectively behave as an emergent phenomenon just like when you know we individually behave completely differently than when we're together they have an emergent phenomenon like this conversation and like a economy or a government etc. And so I as we also describe this as nature and consumer tech basically being a following very similar principles as nature does and then corporations also wanting to then go like the the Goliaths yeah wanting to go and also yeah follow those similar trends. I also want to bring up how I think this is this is critical because we're layering in this idea of this this democratized future of of of getting what we want done faster like cities efficiencies wealth creation mechanisms and all the different fields in this honeycomb lattice that you're talking about. But also you see this on like a really significant the six digital eras trajectory as well so can you take us through this these earlier eras and then where we're at and where you think you are. So yes so a framework I created is called the six digital eras and at first the first three eras were very clear to me 10 years ago so in the 90s and prior to that that we have the internet era but it became so dominant when in the late 90s and this is basically when the world people are creating web pages to say hello I'm out there it's like a signal like it's like a small infant you know shouting to to the to the world hey we exist and here's my digital signal you know I always tie this back to to nature and by the way those eras when I was asked to do this report at Forester as an analyst I couldn't figure out what the pattern was so I went for a walk at Half Moon Bay and and I walked past the cliffs and I could see the stratification of the of the different layers of soil I said oh it's eras and so I said it's eras so that signal came there from that walk so you know these are all intertwined it's all repeating so that's the first one is the the internet era the second era is the social media era and this is when it wasn't just for people who had resources and technical capability to publish anybody can now emit that signal and we saw the rise of YouTube and Facebook and beyond at the third era is this collaborative economy which is the peer-to-peer commerce and we've seen eBay and Airbnb and and Lyft and and blockchain and maker movement and crowdfunding and someone could argue uber does or does not fit into that but it is enabling some in some regards peer-to-peer transactions but that's a whole discussion the next era and so what we saw now is those out of the third era we saw a lot of automation emerge right and as self-driving cars and drones and AI bots were integrated into that third era that gave rise to the fourth era which is what we call the autonomous world and that's being tested now so the first three eras are dominant yeah those have come in those are now part of our world yeah the first one internet era it's kind of dissipated because it's been superimposed by the second third yeah so now we're the autonomous era and we do see self-driving cars sometimes here in silicon valley and we're we chat with AI bots frequently and every time we use google search engine or facebook newsfeed that is it that is AI drones are flying and capturing the footage that we see in the videos yeah and there's for sure a ridiculous amount of AI that is now being developed it's eating our world so fast and it is um and for all these things that you know are they good or the bad and my answer is it's fire fires heat is great and it's also hurtful it's how we how will the human wield it it's fire yeah so the next one is the fifth era is what we call modern well-being or tech wellness and now so the outer world has been digitized now it's coming inside of us into the inner space so touch the mic excuse me the inner space and so like for example this apple watch has many sensors on it and there's devices and it's starting to measure all these things in fact um there are algorithms that could analyze this video and look specifically at your face right now and determine which one of the 110 micro expressions you're admitting to me right now yeah and start to and over time and you publish a number of videos get actually start to determine that and predict what is allen going to like or not like before you actually see something so that that is starting to happen this modern well-being and determine your moods and then my level of tiredness seeing my mood seeing my literally uh the micro vasculature correct because your heart rate and the oxygen levels by the flushing your face those are things that you can see the micro pulsing of the um that can be seen through VR glasses if there's even a camera facing you already so yeah the level of detail how tired you are how much sleep did you have are you receptive to new messages at this moment in time should i be talking to you about this or that so that can all you know eventually your brain states right and i've seen tests of that at certain conferences like literally a full uh chemo electro connectome and your full biometrics of your heart gut all uh being streamed up and processed and and have basically an AI coach for all things and this is i like how you described it as you know digitizing this outer world and all of our gadgets and gizmos and mechanics and automation stuff and now this inner world modern well-being is like how can we leverage these incredible computational capacities for doing things like like this idea of like mood or this idea of education or self-actualization or longevity right yes and these are wonderful things and horrible things um because if you look at the last two eras right the autonomous world actually all all the eras many of them been co-opted and you know they're either owned by the one percent or they have become the one percent the promise of the collective owning these things actually hasn't panned out and and i've seen this pattern enough times so we actually need to question when we are collecting this bio data around us or the mood data or motion data who's using it and how you know is it really free if i get these services in this app we really need to start questioning that because that isn't concerned agreed there's a big gap that we still need to fill that for right now it's that we own none of our data and in the future we want to all own our data own data and be able to control the anonymize it and send it up for processing but also open up these flows and or is it going to be all completely transparent is it going to be quantumally encrypted there's all these questions that are being asked like what do you have to hide or going to restructure like the way we think about ownership i mean who really owns the air i mean data is like the air data's like air right in we're breathing it in we're adding to it we're extrapolating from it we're using it the trees are adding who owns it and data might be that pervasive too so it's yes i know there's air rights in places like manhattan yes i know there's air quality within certain i get that but who really owns the air in this room yeah i don't know this is this is a question this is a great question maybe the the the answer of this could be like nature or something and then would you then be able to say something like you know maybe like facebook having this oculus that brings me into a world in a couple decades that's completely indistinguishable correct from this world uh do they then become my nature and they then own the air in the sense and so that's a big question to ask a digital twin of this reality right yeah yes and those are things that are that's going to happen on our generation as well yeah and in designer realities as well ones that don't look anything like this uh planet uh this digital twin of the planet because um people are so creative and if i can manipulate bits faster than i can manipulate atoms i'm going to just click and delete this pillow faster than like how do i delete this physical pillow like you know and then i just want to jump between these designer virtual worlds and so for my inner well-being i want to do things like let's give let's give some good examples for for the audience sure um well let's talk about data types because that is what is driving the apps and then the business models for for better or for worse it's just that is like a trigger and and that's why often i am a tech analyst so the tech triggers something and it's unfortunately it's not the other way around where it's what is our needs then let's develop the technology usually it's here's a technology let's figure out how it impacts society oops we made a mistake there which has happened many times in tech okay um all right so the common ones now are kinetic movement right so tracking your movement and location and then the second is heart rate so people are using this and there was a report recently from stanford partnered with apple and they use heart rate variability data to track it to see if people had irregular heart numbers and this was to help stave off heart attacks and other cardiac diseases i think that's a wonderful thing of course there's also genomics and genetics tracking i'm not an expert in that space but that's the way if everybody collectively contributes to that is to help predict disease if not fight it so that's an interesting thing as well yeah yeah and i'm hoping that with the inner well-being um digital era that we're currently that we're currently getting into that i hope that um people can be creative longer and uh flourish better on a moment to moment basis uh and i and i hope that ai coach can just like come in and say you know hey alan uh you know you're only going to get six hours of sleep if you go to bed right now like you should you know right so that's in a way starting to happen who knows more about you um apple well i don't know what device system you're on but apple or google okay apple or google or your doctor right oh i think right now it's really clear that yeah yeah this tech knows way more and most people see their doctor healthy people see their doctor once a year if that and they take a quick snapshot of their body with that their physical if they if they do that many people are reversed to that but they're so willing to give up this bio data a tremendous amount of bio data that we don't even for example there's sensors in the apple watch that they haven't told us about yet so we think there's oxygen level data that's already being pooled and they're just a lot of in your blood and breath data can be tracked by the movement um micro movements as you wear earbuds too right so that so there's a tremendous amount of information uh so yes and eight to bring bring that back an ai coach to it's like a therapist it's a doctor it's a pharmacist it's it's a psychologist all of it's a mentor it's a friend it's all those things but but is that is that the human condition that we want should should we be relying on those devices and that tech i mean some people are developing anxiety right now if they see uh oh i only have a yellow band versus a green on the amount of sleep i had last night i'm going to have a pretty crappy day today the self-fulfilling prophecy of anxiety right you know and some people have anxiety they'll get enough steps in so that this unique reliance on technology is creating adverse effects as well as beneficial ones so again it's fire which way do we use it i love your perspective on that it's actually integrating um philosophy into your synthesis of technology and being an um an industry analyst and and what you get by doing that is you get the the question of of can you identify all of those instances when people feel like the AI coach is absolutely helping them significantly and other instances when maybe it's actually hurting them in some way and so i think that's a that's a that's a really tough the question and and how do we find the data as the answer that's the fifth one then there's the sixth one we kind of we started getting into the VR one a little bit the digital realities but there's also going off the sixth era yes so going back to our original framework and this one's fuzzy and we're just kind of tracking it but it's called off world or off planet or off the planet and um it started with obviously there's SpaceX and a number of organizations and Blue Origin that are trying to get humans off the planet but the trend that I was tracking is now satellites are now being shared yeah uh and this is wonderful and scary at the same time and we're seeing that amazon wants to enable a shared satellite network that could be the data can be pulled down to the amazon cloud and businesses or maybe individuals could purchase that data so how could that be used um right now if somebody like many people are spending money on nest or arlo or google home that for security how much would somebody pay to have a satellite watch their house at night and if there were people intruding would automatically call the authorities you know so i'll i'll bet you that'll be a use case and people will will pay that or a drone fleet also it's not as efficient as the satellites that are already up there yes they're already scanning millions of properties and they have infrared and they can see through clouds and smoke and so could be used for disaster recovery it could use to be tracked the agriculture agricultural health uh you could actually look at supply chain like say i i said i purchased beef from this farm how are those animals being treated you could potentially zoom in yes and or you could see which countries or companies are actually are they upholding their promise to the environment you can zoom in on their factories or their plants and and actually see that and which where is pollution coming from and what is the state of the conditions of the oceans or whatever it so the amount in a real time right not just a snapshot so that level of detail is starting to come in so that's as much as i'm looking into this space uh so the so the big trend across all six of these things is that every aspect of and that's outer space right yeah and so every aspect of the world in society is becoming digitized and people are making sense of that creating powerful ai so there's a tremendous tremendous amount of information that's being found and then people are creating businesses for good and bad uh and it's just accelerating the world in amazing ways in scary ways hopefully you're hearing the duality out of me of course yeah just a wasp for within well i i don't consider myself that but it's you know it you have to look at it because the promise right when social media first arrived and i was very active in the scene here in silicon valley 15 years ago we say this is going to make the world free and transparent and um and everybody will have a voice and then we found out that it has significant political ramifications like that we can see it right today right yeah and and the world so that's and mental health and well-being ram yes yes and and negative i had most of the social network apps are deleted off my phone right now exactly likewise yeah we know that we're more likely to just get distracted by them from our ideal north star pursuit then from uh then just you oh i i'm just gonna just post one thing and it's always something that you're addicted to that yes exactly and uh i also like the way that bennie office with that is actually kind of stepping up and talking about uh the future of capitalism um being around uh technology basically doing what you're talking about right now which is identifying when fire is being used in the best purposes to cook our food and to warm our houses and stuff like that rather than burn each other and i think he is a model he is a model leader yes i agree with that yeah yeah um and in and in many ways um you know uh you know what uh uh bill and melinda gates have done or like um what uh the chanzucker burg initiative is trying to trying to do as well i think i think these things are um it's not clear exactly how as in the six digital eras there's been a massive accumulation of wealth for a few for a few but the standard of living has also gone up for those as well it's not clear the bottom has rised faster it's it's actually pretty clear that the top has rised faster that the bottom slowly rising too but the ones that go all the way to the top it's not clear how to best uh use those resources in order to maximize civilizational prosperity and so we're kind of running permutations creatively to figure out okay well probably not just giving the government the money there's gonna be a lot of other stuff that happens there that's that's but also not hoarding it and buying six yachts okay okay okay we're starting to feel it out maybe little like private public partnership organizations that focus heavily on a specific objective like like mapping the inside of a cell or figuring out what it's at the center of the black hole or mapping the whole chemo electro connect dome or eradicating Alzheimer's there's like whoa so like you know how do we do that how do we run those little tiny uh of uh the wealth creation that's happening from the the six digital uh eras is and and how we can best uh collab this kind of goes to your first point about so i i really agree with your the way you described it that the overall the collective good has gone up and i agree with that uh and it's also brought awareness to areas that are not being lifted up but but we should also remember that only half of the planet is on on the internet so we we still have a significant digital divide us anticipating we would talk about this so i'm glad that we did good let's hear more of your thoughts yeah i very there are a few that are extremely wealthy and they will remain wealthy i don't see that changing in particularly the sharing economy i was part of this small group of of true believers optimists that you know had this idea that the it would decentralize all power and i i said that didn't happen in the social media space it actually created a new class of one percenters mark suckerberg and jack dorsi and the investors in those companies and it happened again so that i seeing that i'm seeing that pattern replicate um so having a reward for innovation and entrepreneurs who take great risk is a great thing um but at what level uh did they need that and and make sure that the so right now um i created a a post talking about the class system that we have and we actually have um we really do have this like this medieval caste system so at the highest level are the the kings and in today's society in silicon valley that is the investors the kings would grant the land to the lords which would be the castle and that which they can run that feudal system and then from there um those are the entrepreneurs and they create their little castles and kingdoms and if they invite you to come be workers then you can now if you cannot identify with the lord or the king which is the investor or the ceo then you are a peasant or a pawn or at the very bottom level and so or or me and as well so that exists yet again it's digital feudalism damn yeah wow whoa wow it's in in this kind of the same way you portray this digital feudalism uh i think other we've also had this conversation about modern day slavery that i'm not what do you mean freedom what freedom are you talking about we we spend 50 of our waking hours working for people to make money to pay for things that we don't even necessarily need sometimes uh and so yes there's a whole that is very true there's a whole that ecosystem of modernity plus this digital feudalism that's happening where it's like just telling someone you buckle up and go and you know become an entrepreneur it's like how does that actually happen uh in today's in today's world and it's like every day have your ideas and make them have your ideas and make them day after day after day after day and after 10 years maybe your ideas will still be around and people will find them to be very valuable and then you can start getting a little bit of money and you can start getting a little bit of a team and then you know that's kind of like this dream that we paint of creativity and entrepreneurship now but there's still a serious hierarchy serious hierarchy present i don't think that's going to change unless there's serious changes uh at the highest federal levels you think federal levels you think that like could could certain aspects like the decentralized the future of decentralization technologies could potentially open up like the way that the current federal reserve has like a choke on our throats uh on money and now in 10 years you're like whoa bitcoin ethereum cryptocurrencies is like uh so interestingly enough all of a sudden that they're like oh god we're losing our grip on that which is kind of interesting so maybe there's other ways that people have the grips and have built out big modes that are going to collapse because of technologies like that it's it's so i think that was a cryptocurrencies the first wave we saw as a test there's going to be something else that emerges that that was just the test something else will happen i mean um we learned a lot from that that was helpful um but even without getting too political that the a number of the political democratic candidates in the in united states espouse the the beliefs of shared wealth and many of them want to regulate big tech so as their positions and platforms whether they do or not is a whole other topic or if they get elected but you can see that's starting or andrew yang who is on your show and i've sat down her coffee with him uh so he believes in that as well so you can see at least three candidates are starting to bring that up in in the ecosystem so i think this conversation will only continue is in is reducing the digital divide amongst the masses so we'll see yes yes yes this is another potentially actually an interesting industry report to create or for other people to create is around a wealth accumulation from the six digital eras now that's pretty yeah well the patterns are already clear to me but and and then also the um the optimal formats of uh allocating reallocating resources towards collective prosperity what is the maximization protocol the best objective function and that's a that's a great question actually i want to ask you that exact question what do you think is the purpose of the human experience wow that's very deep i'm and i don't feel like i know that's a very good question i i don't have a an insightful answer i'm still trying to figure out what that is like and if you were to maybe think about your own pursuit in your own towards your own north star in this world what has given you the most idea of what is the meaning of your life in your existence so bigger than just work or looking at trends um i i personally love challenges and i think i think there's the growth comes in the pain and the struggle and the suffering uh for example when you picked up my backpack you notice there's a bunch of weights in there 25 pounds uh that load out is 20 pounds and and and that you makes my bones denser and and gives me better posture and strengthens my muscles and it's annoying to pick it up but then after a while you forget it's there and it's just because parties i love the the testing and and uh on on how to accomplish new things and so i i just love that part of the human conditioning is um suffering for growth yeah yeah i like that like challenges it challenges like um i i had a corporate job but i've been independent for 10 years so i took the risk to go be an entrepreneur which is kind of the norm around here in the bay area but that was a risk put my family at risk put me at risk i didn't know if it's gonna work um but i do love those types of challenges to to try that what has been um your relationship with source or god or all that is or yeah what has been your connection to this higher essence i think a lot about the collective and i mean that if you look at the the thread of all of the research i've done is like how are we connecting as as one unit but i'm looking at how uh how we're all one interconnected that that's and i'm not really able to articulate it as well as i am in a tech market because it's not something i'm asked very often actually probably one of the most important principles of that source or god or all that is conversation is literally interconnectedness of all things all things and not just humans not just humans that's right yeah yeah and okay and how about um you have four young children i have three three you have three three children um are any of them teenage yet no they're very young they're very low to tenish yeah okay what would you recommend for your own children and for those watching in their children um for some sort of a way to succeed in this uh the digital technology explosion into society and and beyond just tech uh so i'm trying to teach my young ones and other kids as well as the ability to learn so all of the the information is there and it's going to be public and there's a vast amounts of it but being able to discern what really matters and then able to make those decisions is going to be key and to quickly learn so i've been teaching my children like how to learn and constantly learn and relearn um rather than just relying on uh rote memorization which is traditional in american that's changing now in american public schools when i grew up and perhaps when you grew up but uh now they're starting to teach them how to find their own ideas and i think that's a change that we need to embrace in society because things are moving more dynamically and the pace of change is accelerated in all aspects um from politics to the environment to sustainability to societal issues and technology new releases they're moving at a faster everything's oscillating at a faster pace the frequencies have gotten higher and higher now right where versus a hundred years ago the frequencies were lower bands right so we're moving into the upper registers and it's it is a lot of tension so you have to teach the children to quickly jump from wavelength to wavelength that are oscillating at a fast pace and it is stressful and that is what to do it so to answer your specific is is is learning in multi-disciplines so i'm encouraging and inviting my children to learn from at least in outside of school and at least three domains one is stem so one of my children is already playing with lego robotics right and we do math together and science and then the other one is um is is fitness and movement and taking care of your body the physical sense so we participate in things related to that and the third one is the humanities and we do art or dance or music and we play piano and so i try to have that different disciplines together and we're always learning from those as well yeah there's something that can combine all of them that would be amazing and it's pretty rare but so that's the specific way i think about that i love that and have maybe the two kind of ebb into maybe the humanities a bit and have the two other ones i've been to the fitness one a little bit into the stem one a bit just to like you know grow the overall multi-disciplinary whole human tool belt for them um i also like how you talked about it as an overall over time ascend ascension process and the frequencies increasing um and in a sense it kind of reminds me like oh people are like uh young people can't uh attention they can't focus on thing well there may be some sort of uh of a truth to like yeah long periods of focus on specific objectives that you want to solve that's totally true but at the same time in the sense with this ascension that we're talking about to be like vigilant of okay i'm focusing my time on this thing but then something else comes up am i able to quickly and efficiently switch to the thing that i have to focus on now to solve this other big challenge in a completely different field that's also the other thing could it be even in a completely different field and then to go back while managing other people in my own health and working with this ai coach all at the same time so you have to in a sense be able to hold a bunch of different things in your worldview tons of variables and this next generation may not even think of it as switching like mental switching it's i think that's actually how they they kind of grow up is just multi-channel on all the time like they probably three screens on at a time right what a real wearable device phone and then and i don't even think they're going to use a laptop it's probably a ai a verbal based ai right yeah which is that's where amazon is pushing his voice and audio right and then they have the mobile device which and then self is disappearing and dissipating as well amazon last week announced or two weeks ago announced that they have uh glasses now which have six microphones on them right so you can see and they have you know you can see where this is is going it's going all around us but and the screens are slowly dissipating away yeah correct exactly getting yeah it's all yeah voice uh playing in these 3d environments with my voice in my hand that's right yeah yeah yeah so screens disappear yeah i think that's like what we will know when we truly are mobile first is we don't even see the mobile device and so that that's where we're headed and there's so many other incredible reports that you guys have that we could talk about but i i just highly highly recommend people to to go to the website and check them out web hyphen strategist dot com collado collido incite collido let collido scope collido incites dot com and your twitter profile as well um check out those reports they are so incredible and check out the blog posts everyone they're so so good um another one was on like autonomous vehicles another one was on um uh what the corporate i guess we would we wouldn't we have to at least ask you this question as well i forgot to ask you um what are corporations doing inside of their uh buildings inside of their um uh processes that are facilitating the greatest amount of innovation development so let's use a metaphor so the corporations are traditionally like large stone blocks immobile rigid cold now they're realizing they need to be more like um a redwood forest still strong but they bend in the wind and they hold host to many other organisms many which are unseen beneath the soil and they enable life around them and in a connected ecosystem and so that's the mindset shift that they realize they need to behave like the tech startups if you look at the popular tech startups they enable life around them for example facebook who's creating the content everybody else but facebook they're enabling that apple who creates the apps not really apple you know their their primary revenue line is selling phones second is the app store and itens uh and you can go on and on and uber who's actually doing the work the crowd airbnb whose homes are they their crowd so but in order to do that they need to be agile nimble and have in a way a mindset of um enabling the ecosystem and lifting up the ecosystem around you rather than being the sole um beneficiary yes that's right interesting so like the moving from the stone to the redwood to to deal with um all of the wind of the the movement for the tree but also as a redwood then maybe doing something like creating shade for others to come exactly stuff like that exactly and and it's an interconnected ecosystem right and even there's life under the soil and they're and they're connected to other organizations and even to other large companies so everything's becoming connected through digital and it's get to get specific apis and and data right and so that's resulting in this the resilience so um to to be very specific big companies are trying to be agile and nimble right that and there means they have to be welcome to trying new things that often result in failure and that is very difficult this traditionally if a stone breaks it splinters in half and they and it feels not very great i don't know how stones feel but i'm just trying to take that metaphor a little as far as i can and so failure was not really an option for these big corporations and now they're realizing they have to place lots of tiny little bets and and do that so they're running the permutations the creative mutations but also they're creating platforms that enable other people's creativity to come through them that's right and that could be either their own employees with a innovation intrapreneurship program intrapreneurship which is like if they have that day off every week friday off it should be infused throughout the the whole process so it shouldn't be just interesting not just a day off but maybe while you work whenever you feel like it transition to the not transition it should be part of always growing the existing product yet so when you when you talk to the the big tech startups google amazon they don't have innovation departments the big traditional company have innovation departments run by a specific person because they were not innovative to begin with so like an automotive manufacturer that's right because they're used to just slight permutations on each product which was part of the product roadmap that's actually not innovation that's just permutations so innovation to create up something completely new that comes from another group and it's because they have been disrupted by the tech startups let me give you a practical example the car companies are now doing a ride sharing or car sharing or they're preparing for rides as a service so you can order them through an app on a membership they're preparing for that because uber disrupted them five years ago so badly that they realized that they themselves need to become innovative and so they're now thinking oh in the future we don't sell cars we're just offering a mobility service yeah so that's innovative thinking versus product iteration is ah we need to make the ride more comfortable we need to have more miles per gallon oh we need more comfortable seats that's not innovation that's just iteration so they actually had to be completely disintermediated by uber when lift or car sharing or ride sharing for them to realize oh wow we have to really think a lot different well so it's a pressure cooker sometimes happens and then the it goes from iteration to innovation that's right and so the definition we use of innovation we interviewed people with that title is doing something new that solves customer needs and it's probably in conflict with your existing business model I love the last part yeah that serves the customer's needs but then it's also in conflict with the existing business model yeah because that's kind of what it feels like when we also take on something else is like in a sense it's like oh but we're focusing so much of our attention here and we're making you know 80% of our revenues from just the 20% of stuff here we want to keep focusing on it but it's like yeah but then you have your blinders on to what all these other possibilities are that if you hedged a bunch of different bets that one of those could become your next one percent of the time that makes 90% of your revenue that's right and so that's why it can't be just something you do once a day inside of a company that that that culture of innovation has to be infused to the whole organization like you'll see this in the the leadership principles at amazon you'll see this at the google 8020 rule which is what you're sort of referencing you'll see this at adobe with their entrepreneurship programs so yeah so it's starting to take hold in in other organizations as well i love that so it entrepreneurship is actually a very crucial principle of innovation especially at these bigger yes corporations and so that means that the ideas come from all levels of the of the company not just from product managers yeah it can be from any so that's part of this whole back to the bigger theme here is the connectedness and how the the crowd is empowered and how we're all connected so yeah yeah whoa okay and then just last last couple questions do you think that this is already a simulation i love this topic and i've read the the articles and i've listened to the the podcast and i watched the youtube videos and um yeah it's statistically yeah it's probably a simulation we're probably not base layer base uh reality yeah statistically it's not but who am i to say i was already programmed to say that i love that that thought yeah so have you played sim city oh yeah okay yes i love that game and there's a mode after you build your beautiful city right and it's got all easy you know it maybe it's in tune with nature or maybe it's high tech you can choose one of the disasters right whether it's like ufo's or tornadoes or fires or riots and it seems like this year like the player just hit a bunch of those all at once have everything but the ufo's coming here yeah i guess that's next you have to be a geek to really know this that yeah actually uh putting ourselves in that creator perspective of the reality is one of the best ways i think also for kids one of the best skills for them because then they gain this world view understanding exactly looking at systems and patterns and holistic and the connectedness that's exactly right that is a great Sid Meyers uh also civilization that's a great way to look at that as well like look from look down on the universe since on our planet and on civilization and how everyone's behaving and stuff from the top from the top down and then see that systems perspective see the interconnectedness perspective and look bottom up from like the like plonk to the atom like up yeah yeah yeah and that's tied to yeah even in this room there's a tech system which layers up to the other tech systems in other neighborhoods which become the societal digital web right and which is the internet right so you can look at it both ways yeah yes yes yes and humans are right in the middle between the smallest and the biggest we're right in the middle last question what do you think is the most beautiful thing in the world a new life it is our core instructions and core DNA code is to create new life yeah i mean it's it when you look at the human behavior um it's it's to procreate and i don't just mean yeah i don't just mean to have children you know it's to to help other people grow as well or or it's plants or it's or it's or it's a pet like we get so much joy out of new life new life it is part of our core instruction yes and survival instinct i mean it's those that couldn't do it are not here in all parts of biology right and the ecosystem so i think that's beautiful who on the hierarchy of priorities new life is probably at the top uh you know you get the air and the water and the food but you know making new life and being with new life is and you get three of them at your your own new life yes i do and that is uh that that is a joy and it does things to you that i just yeah being a dad uh is one of the coolest experiences of life and or the mom yeah and then especially when they have kids and you become a grandpa or a grandma hold on there but then you really see the cycle of life happening and then you're like whoa yeah yeah germa thank you so much thank you that was so deep for the conversation that was so great thank you i'm so happy you have incredible knowledge about society and technology and capacities to synthesize and disseminate which is something that we love so much so this has been an honor for us as well thanks everyone for tuning in we greatly appreciate it we'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments below on the episode let us know what you're thinking have more conversations to your friends families co-workers people online about society and technology about all of these systems about the interconnectedness of them and about the future of them and about how you yourself can become more actualized and collectively actualized together check out all the links in the bio below web strategist.com also collidoinsights.com and uh and also jrmi's twitter profile go and check out those industry reports they are incredible they'll give you extremely valuable insights go check those out everyone also shout out to ori shapira our co-producer thank you very much ori greatly appreciate it and also support the artists the entrepreneurs the leaders in your communities and organizations that you believe in because you can 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