 You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications bell so you are notified for when my next podcast goes live. As I said having read stuff and having been briefed on what had happened to a kid and what they did to him and being in front of the kid and seeing the state of him. And I'm starting looking and I'm thinking shit. My colleague was downstairs so I was by this exit door and he was down the next floor to stop anyone coming up and coming in and obviously being faced with this situation. So the noise we heard when we were looking for the window scuffling was him on the floor tied up. You're fucking dangerous. You're a child molester and you're standing there and you're laughing. You think you're fucking funny. Because basically if the maids don't put the teddy bears back exactly like this isn't that picture. He goes into one. He flips. Was he the favorite? Yeah. I mean he got away with absolute fucking murder. We were letting people in. We didn't know the fuck they were. And then we said anything. We get top shot. I'm doing it because people should know what Prince Andrew is like. And I'll bed my soul and there's more to come about what I've done to rob protection. A lot of the officers had a massive dislike for Prince Charles because they blamed him for her death. I just think the issue you've got with Prince Andrew or what he's got is six or seven of his closest friends are convicted, now convicted sex offenders. Boomerang. Today's guest we've got Paul Page. Paul, good to see you. I've seen a few of your interviews. 60 Minutes in Australia. Lad Bible. You've worked close with the royalties. You've been very outspoken against big names such as Prince Andrew. We've all seen his interview. A bit embarrassing if I'm honest but before we get into all the mad stuff how are you? Yeah I'm good. Yeah good. I've been busy as you know. I finished an interview with NBC last year. That went at Peacock TV at America. I'm actually talking about Prince Andrew. I've done a few other things. I've turned down quite a bit of stuff because I don't want to be someone bouncing around the scene. I've said what I've said because it's true. And the more people that sort of understand what the man is about Prince Andrew, the more they can make an informed decision of what he's actually done or what he's suspected of having done. Before we get into it Paul, just to get a bit of an understanding about you, what you've done in the past, what you've involved in. So I would like to go back to the start of my guess. This is where you grew up and how it all began. East London. Not Essex as some people call me an Essex wide boy. I'm from East London, Leighton Stone, born in Forest Gate. Stayed there most of my life up until 20 when I joined Essex Police. And then moved to Greys. My Beat Duty Sergeant welcomed me to the police stand. He said, welcome to Greys, the arsehole of Essex. So yeah, that's where I first was based, Essex. I was there for about three years. What were you like at school? I wasn't massively clever. I was street smart. I got an old level in English and art. But I wasn't really that academic. I was more sports orientated. I started karate when I was eight. I got my black belt when I was 14. And then got into the England karate team when I was 16. So I spent a lot of my sort of younger days traveling up and down the country and across Europe fighting in competitions. Winning, you know, I won quite a bit. I wasn't the best of the best. And I won the British and English titles. Never, never got a European or world title, unfortunately. But I just didn't have that extra as some of my friends did. Went on to be world champions. I just didn't have that extra push. But yeah, it gave me discipline. Give me focus. It sort of instilled into me that you've got to work hard, you know, harder than you've ever worked before if you really want something. You can't get carried along. You've got to do it yourself. Otherwise, you're never going to go anywhere. How was your family upbringing? I lived with my, I was brought up by my grandparents because my parents were having problems at the time. So I was fostered by those. Luckily for me, they were quite well off. So I didn't want for anything. You know, as soon as I passed my test, I had a brand new car. I wasn't spoiled, but I was looked after by my grandparents. He had a building business, quite a successful business. And yeah, so I suppose he put me in for everything, you know, to try to keep me busy. So Cub Scouts got my Chief Scouts Award. Territorial Army, so three years in that from the age of 17 to 20 before I went to the police. I worked as a lifeguard, fitness instructor and obviously England Karate International. So I was quite busy for my younger days. I wasn't a saint, don't get me wrong. I've been chased by the fucking police. You know, I've just never been caught. But not doing any serious crime, but just being a little shit like most people are. Do you think keeping busy then, kind of helps with the family breakup? Yeah, I think that's why my grandparents did so much for me to try and cover that gap that I never really had a, you know, a normal relationship as my friends did. They lived with their parents, you know, I was an only child. And so they did their best. So I had an old school upbringing, an old fashioned sort of views that I took on, you know. And it didn't do me any harm, you know. But it gave me the drive to succeed. You know, my grandparents always said, you know, no one's going to give anything this life. You've got to work hard for it. And that's the, that's the ethics that I had at the time. And I wanted to be a millionaire. That is what I wanted to be a millionaire. And I was going to achieve that some way. So, but I wasn't a businessman. I wasn't a builder. I didn't have those sort of qualities, you know, to be able to start, you know, designing stuff that my grandfather could. And like I said, I was more fitness and sports orientated. But what happened one time when I was in the Territorial Army, a friend of mine, there was only 18. And I knew his girlfriend because she worked in the same leisure center as me. They were in a club, we had a fight with somebody and he got stabbed to death. I think that was pretty tough. But then we were doing the funeral, the sort of the unit was going to carry the coffin in full uniform and we had to practice with this coffin. And I just couldn't do it. I just, I didn't even go to the funeral, which I'm sorry about now. But yeah, that really, that was the first sort of, it was the second incident I had, you know, to do with close person dying. When I was six, my grandfather's brother lived with us. And I found him, I was thinking about six or seven and I found him dead. But I didn't really understand about dying, just knew he was laying on the floor and he wasn't moving and I was talking to him downstairs. And he died of a heart attack. So that sort of, and then this happened and I just think, fucking hell, life's too short. And I started looking around thinking, what do I want to do? And I initially wanted to be a fireman, but they weren't recruiting at the time. So I thought, I'll fuck it, I'll try the old bill. And the men weren't recruiting, Essex was. So I applied for Essex Police and got in. What sort of training did you have to do to get into the corpus? I think I did 20 weeks. I did it at a, a Tuesday, I'll get it right in a minute. Shotley Police Training School, which is in Suffolk. So it's like a county training facility for Essex, Cambridge, Norfolk Constabulary. So amalgamation of different forces, you use that training school. So it wasn't hending. And that was, you know, that was pretty comprehensive. I think we did 10 weeks in the school and then we came out for five weeks to our police stations and went on patrol with our beat officers that were going to teach us. So it was pretty intense. What year was that? That was 1992. Yeah, 1992. Oh, nearly 30 years ago. Yeah. Oh, I can't do that. Showing your age, Paul. But yeah, I mean, it was, it was, it was an opener. You know, the training was, as I say, the training was good, but it's, it's, you can't, you have to go on the streets to learn your trade at the end of the day. You can do all the scenarios you want, but you know how they're going to end up because it's practice. It's different when you're on the streets. What was the first thing you'd seen as a corpus? In my first year, I was nearly shot. I had to guard a horribly mutilated body and I got assaulted. So those three things sort of were a steep learning curve. So nearly being shot, basically, we were on night duty and we're all in the station. No, no one had gone out. We're sitting around doing fuck all basically. And then the phone rings. Someone says, oh, okay, yeah, put the phone down. What's the matter? He said, ah, someone's wrecked their gunshots. Fuck it. It's probably fireworks. Then another call. Yeah. I think I've had gunshots. And then another one, we think, ah, well, okay, maybe we better go and have a look at this. So I was driving the duty inspector at the time. So we went to these block of flats in Grace, Conway Gardens and all the lights were off, but the ground floor flat and next to the entrance, the window was smashed and it was in darkness. So we went up, just looked, couldn't see anything, heard a little noise before and we buzzed one of the neighbors to let us through the door. So as you go in the door, this door to the flats is directly on your left. So we knocked quietly on the door. Nothing, looked through the letterbox and we both looked through the letterbox and we just heard a ch-ch-ch-ch. We knew what it was straight away, you know, and we just both ran pushing each other out of the way. It was every man for himself. We were shoving each other. I didn't give a fuck that he had pips on his shoulders. I wasn't getting shot. And we just ran. We ran half a lever back to the car, hid behind the car, called up for assistance. And it turns out that the fella had just been released from South End Police Station. It was a domestic incident. He'd been released. He'd gone on, picked up a shotgun and a pistol. A nasty bit of work. And he'd come back to his girlfriend's flat where she was there with a six-year-old child and her brother, he'd shot the window out, climbed through, beat the brother up, tied him up on the floor. So the noise we heard when we were looking for the window was scuffling. It was him on the floor tied up. And anyway, firearms teams and the guy's shot has turned up, tried to talk him out. He's ended up going in the bathroom with the girlfriend and his child and just blew his head off. I remember going in there and it was just, it was the blood, it was everyone. The weird thing was the girl didn't have any blood on her. Just, just completely clean. How do you deal with that, the aftermath? Do you still struggle with that? Yeah, I mean, I don't know how, it's really difficult because, you know, I know in the current climate, no one likes the old bill and there's a lot of shit coming out and these people rightly so should be persecuted for what they've done. You know, we'll talk about stuff that I've done and, you know, but that, being in that kind of environment, being in that job, it doesn't matter who you are, people sitting there listening to me, go and join the police and see what it's like for yourself. You can sit there and judge people like me, but unless you've been there and you've been in situations like I'm going to describe for you, then you just need to take it on board. It's not, life's not a bubble of cherries. You know, people don't play, play straight. You know, in that situation now, I didn't think about it at the time. I was more concerned about the kids and the one we got. I mean, we went in after it was all clear what they were taking away. And then I remember them saying that they'd lost so much blood, they had trouble back in the mortuary trying to take blood samples out of him. And then when they obviously left him over, they found the pistol stuffed down his trousers. And I thought at the time, fucking hell, it could have just shot as soon as we knocked on the door. We shouldn't have knocked on the fucking door. It could have just gone bang, and we'd have both been shot dead. That's the thing, like, since I've been doing these broadcasts over the last five years, like, I wasn't anti-authority because I wasn't that bad, but I used to go off fuck the police, but then when you actually speak to them under cover coppers and the strain under cover pedophile, the guy went 20 years working the world's darkest job, I believe the strain and the stress that they go through and the things that you see, the horrors, trying to do the right thing. Listen, there's good and bad everywhere, obviously, this stuff. But to people who do that job, because I know the majority of the coppers are turning to alcohol or drugs to black out the pain, because what they see, there's not enough things in place to help them for the trauma that they see. PTSD, probably see worse things and the police than some people do in the army. About 30 years ago, there was not much about, you know, there was colleagues around me that did have mental health issues and actually had breakdowns. A sergeant who was a good copper, he just lost a plot, a PC, same thing. And, you know, I remember the first, that was one incident, but the first incident that I was faced with death was we had a call to a washing pad factory that a man had committed suicide in the factory, on the Florida factory. So, again, I was with my inspector, so we went down there. His colleagues were traumatised. Obviously, they walked in, they imagined the scene. It was like a, you know, like a cold train. They've got them carriages. It's sort of like that. And it was going around in a circle, but at each sort of station, there was a shaft that pumped powder into the things and it just kept going. And if you see what I mean, to make the, wherever it is, the powder. And as we've walked in this sort of train thing, it stops, but there's still a lot of loud noise in the place. And as we looked on the floor, there was a headless corpse on the floor. And it just looked like a fucking dummy. That was my, you know what I mean? I was like, shit. And I'm trying to stay focused and listening to what's going on, but I'm staring at this body thinking, is that fucking real? Because it just didn't look real. Because the shock took over. You know, I mean, I didn't throw up. I wasn't sort of physically sick, but mentally I wasn't. So we had to secure the scene because we didn't know what had happened at the time. So I was tasked with guarding this body on my own. And of course, then there's no one in this big fucking warehouse, just me and this body and loud noise. And I'm starting looking and I'm thinking, shit. I think it was downstairs. So I was by this exit door and he was down the next floor to stop anyone coming up and coming in and obviously being faced with this situation. All of a sudden, a loud voice comes out of this body. Like, I can't even remember because I was so frightened. I just fucking run. I kicked through the door. I went, run downstairs. I went to the site going, you need to get the fuck up there. I panicked. I just lost the plot. So he came back up and what had happened was, he's got a radio on him and downstairs was using the radio. But because I was focused on this body and things were going through my head, I wasn't thinking like practically. And I got the piss taken at me for that badly. You know, I was torn to pieces when I went back to it, but the worst thing was, the worst thing was because I'd reacted like that, obviously he's gone on the road and said, oh, Pajie's fucking shit himself, where to find the head? So they made me go and look for the head and climb up on the one machine where they turned it all off. And I found this poor fella's head and it was resting on this piece of machine which is staring at me. His eyes open. So I said, you know, I found the head. So Soco came down and back in them days, I mean Soco now, scenes of crime officers, mainly civilians, but back then it was like detectives, DCs and detective sergeants. And this old sweat come along and he's taking pictures of the scene. And the police had been and obviously confirmed death, obviously. So he's waiting for the mortuary pit to arrive and he said to me, right, son, get up there and get that head down. I went, sorry. He goes, you're going to have to get the head then. He goes, we need to get the head. I said, I'm not touching that. And they were going, I said, no, I'm not. That was a step too far. I didn't do it, but the head was recovered. But then I started thinking about who this person was and this is where it gets you. Because it's all right dealing with a horrific scene, you think, oh fuck, he had a wife. He's a family. What are they going to think? You know what I mean? And then that's what hits you. You start thinking about the people that left behind and the situation that's occurred. Now, I never got to find out whether or not it was an accident or whether he committed suicide. What I do know is it only just come back of a Jamaican holiday, two-week holiday. So he's still in holiday mode, but now his wife's face, we've been told that a husband's never going to come home again. So the situations when you're dealing with them, you can deal with them at the time, but like you just said, it's up here when that starts to affect that, is when you start to go off-paste. And you can be as impartial as you want and a police officer can come and go and say, well, it's part of the job. Well, it might be part of the job, but it still affects normal people. If you're not affected, you're fucking nuts. It's as simple as that. How hard is it going to see families and tell them that they've lost loved ones? I've only ever been there once, luckily. I'm saying luckily. It wasn't that it was a road accident, a victim of a road accident. I think it was about 20. And usually traffic did, but on this occasion, we did it. And it was horrific. It was absolutely horrific. People didn't know I was sitting with the police officers standing there. They say there were two things. Someone's been nicked or someone's dead. Or, you know, that's what people usually think. And, yeah, it was not a good place to be. Those kind of jobs are, you've got to be solid. And, you know, because if you start being affected in front of these people, it's going to make things 10 times worse. So, yeah, that was a very unpleasant situation for me. I can deal with the blood and gore, but it's the surrounding, it's the effects outside that I was always sort of thinking about. But, yeah, like I said, back then, you couldn't go in and go, oh, I'm feeling a bit liable. They'd go, what the fuck are you talking about? That's the job, get on with it. You know, that's how it was. There wasn't all this, and I'm going to say touchy, touchy, feeling, feeling, but there are people out there that need help. And back then, you know, it's like back in the 90s, society changes over the years, doesn't it? So, what was acceptable back then is definitely not acceptable now in terms of policing, in terms of social, you know, activities of what people would do and who people want to express themselves as they want to express themselves. So, back then, there's a lot of people that didn't have the help that they needed. And like I said, I knew, probably when I went to Merrilebone, another couple of people had mental issues, and one was Van Dunst carrying underneath his fucking table in his front row because he never brought it for duty. Loads of paperwork, because the paperwork got to him. He couldn't control the paperwork, and he just kept taking it home and hiding it, hiding it, and then he lost the plot. The worst one was a good friend of mine, Boise's nickname was at Role Protection. I'm going to say Boise, because I'm not going to hide who he is, but I'm not going to say his real name, but everyone knows the work of me, who it was. And he was such a funny bloke, such a funny bloke, he was the life and soul of the party, but when he came to Role Tea, he had a couple of weeks off, and I think they said it was depression or something like that. We didn't really think too much of it. We thought, right. So we didn't know him at the time, but thinking, right, he's got suffering from depression or stress or something, and they've given him a fucking gun. Is that right? But when he came up, like most people with depression, it doesn't show on the outside, it's on the inside of it. You could be the funniest fucker ever, but inside you're dying. And this is what he was like. He was the life and soul of the party, he clicked straight away as soon as he came on the unit, which was a clicky unit. You know, if he was a knobbid, you're going. It's as simple as that, but he was so funny. But inside he was in pain, and he transferred the winds of castle, and then I think someone told me, he knew his family went out for a party, he didn't go. He went down the end of the shed and killed himself with a shotgun. And you think, fucking hell, he was, we thought he was all right. You know, it was nice. But you can never tell who's got what issues. You know what I mean? He was obviously suffering, but he used to make people laugh. So although he was dying inside, he was making people laugh. He killed himself in his own shed, or the ones he went to? Yeah, no, he's done shit. No, he's done shit. Yeah, so I think his family found him. Do you not get mental health tests before you're working with some of the royal family? Could he not have potentially turned on one of the family? Listen, you know, I was hurt. When I got arrested and my wife was put in the door, I was hurt. I got to the stage and we'll go for it. I thought I was above the law. I turned corrupt. I corrupted police officers. I corrupted civilians through the need to get my money back. And I sort of go through that. But at the end of the day, with mental health tests, I don't know what it's like now. But back then, there was no sort of you don't sit down with side car chips. It was your eye test, your fitness test, hearing test, and your firearms test. They all had to be checked every three months or whatever it was. And if you failed any of those, you can't carry a gun. As for individuals who were in the unit, there were a few people I did think, why the fuck has he got a gun? You know what I mean? It shouldn't be let loose with a fucking pencil sharpener. They let it out of the gun, you know? I mean, some people had attitudes. Some people were rude. I've always been of the opinion that treat people as most people, they treat people like you want to be treated yourself. Your attitude affects my attitude, affects your attitude. Do you know what I mean? So if I come in strong with you, you're going to get the ump and think, well, what are you talking to me like that for? You don't have to be like that. You just be normal with people. A couple of fellas, one bloke, his nickname was Harry the Bastard. I mean, that tells you, it was fucking embarrassing. You know, we'd stand on post and basically your job is to let people in and out of the palace securely. Protect the royal family, obviously. And make sure you keep the integrity of the palace secure. The security of the palace is, is, is going on. But you also got tourists coming up to you every, every five minutes, one of photographs. I mean, it was, it was funny at first, but after the fucking 10,000s, 10,000s one, you're fucking like, oh, mate, but you still do it. You still do it. Because why should you, you know, I know people say, the numpty is on the gates. No, no, no. We're all seasoned couples. We've been there, seen it, done it. We've chose to come to this business for all our own reasons. But they're members of the public, they're tourists. They've come to see a site. Why spoil it from and be rude to them? You don't need to do that. And some people did were like that. And I used to hate working with them because it's embarrassing. Do you know what I mean? You think, don't talk to people like that. I can't start referencing a colleague in front of people. Yeah. And, and yeah, you've got some, some fucking old balls that did work up. I'll be honest with you. I'm not going to lie. So how did you end up involved with working with the Royal Family? Okay, so, um, was it Marilyn Bone? Um, and I suppose maybe we should just start off from Essex and what happened, you know, how I progressed into the Met. So in Essex, we're going to go down the road of now, you know, there's two types of corruption. You know, I credit Michael Gillard for wanting back to say that because it's in his book, The Untouchables about the anti-corruption command. Um, but there's two types of corruption. There's bent for self and it's bent for the job. I don't know if you've ever read them terms. No, can you explain them? Okay. So bent for self is corruption, and corruption terms is a copper who's out for himself, who's liaising with criminals, who's stealing it when you go and do a raid. He's having it after Cocoaway or after money away, stuff like that. Yeah, selling information to criminals for personal gain. Yeah. Bent for the job is noble cause corruption, which back in the 90s, Paul Condon even said publicly, look, police officers getting pissed off with the courts not putting proper sentences, giving proper sentences to criminals. So they're, they're getting out when they should be getting jail and they're, you know, carrying on what they were doing. We're wasting our time. So police officers would bridge the gap with evidence. For example, if you know someone's bang at it and they're a fucking nuisance on your patch and you see them at it for two in the morning, a burglar, and you're watching them and they're not really doing anything. They're running, looking for an opportunity. Well, I've just seen you fucking trying to open that window. Yeah. You haven't been attempted burglar to make his full statement basically of assault on police or whatever. That's, that's what happens. Do you know what I mean? So you're, you're, you're bending the rules to sort of, I don't know, scoop wrong ends up. You want to call it that. You know they're at no good, but you can't prove it at the time. Or so you suspect. Let's say it like that way. I mean, this fella could have done 10 burglaries, but it could be walking, walking down from an art on the pitch. You don't know. But that's, that's sort of, you know, examples. I mean, I got myself, I mean, as I said to you about, I dealt with the situation. It was his kid, 14, 15. And we got called to Grays Railway Station and he was laying on the tracks, laying next to the tracks. He was pissed. He was locked off his head. So we scooped him up and he was, oh, I fucking want to die. I'm just 15. He was only a kid. What the fuck's the matter with him? And he was a right little shit. We got him up and he was fighting and he was this and he was that. So we got him back. So getting the fucking car, we're taking him back to the police station called Social Services. And anyway, they came out and it turned, they didn't say anything at the time. The next night he's back again. He's fucking causing me. I'm nicking stuff out of 7-Eleven, running down the road, frying bottles. It was like being a right fucking nuisance. So anyway, we scooped him up again and I thought, why don't we rest him for a breach of the pace or something just to get him off the fucking street called the Social Services again. Look, what the fuck's going on with his kid? And they sat us down and said, why don't we rest him? His dad was a member of a pedophile that murdered a kid. And he's in jail now, but what happened was they'd passed this poor lad. He'd passed, the dad had passed the kid around to all his mates. He was subjected to horrific abuse. And that was fucking horrible. When I heard that was the first sort of, two hands, cut that beer. That was the first time I come across an actual victim of sex crime, you know? Rumbling around on the streets with piss heads and all the rest of this. It's nothing. But when you're now faced with the reality of how evil people can be, not really evil to children, it fucks with your head. So in the police, you're swanted at, you know, your loyalty to the Queen and country and you swear that you're going to protect life and property. You know what I mean? And you're going to be impartial, no matter what, you're going to be impartial. Well, unfortunately for me, I wasn't strong enough to be impartial. I'd deviate from the fucking script. So I once, once sort of, I got involved with this boy, and we did. Every time we get called out to Nick and I say, we'd say, no, we didn't. They've been Nicking from seven hours. We just squared the shopkeeper away. We're not Nicking him anymore. We're trying to look after him. And then we started identifying sex cases and pedophiles that are on our patch. And I remember, I remember one incident where we were called to a school and this dirty fucker had passed a note through the fence to a nine-year-old child and it basically said what he wanted to do to her and what he wanted her to do to her downstairs and all that shit, do you know what I mean? And I just thought, you fucking dirty cunt. Next time I saw him, I saw him in Grey's Eye Street on a night duty and I was on foot patrol. So I see him hovering around and I just went up to him, I went, come at you. And he went, what's the matter? Tell me, tell me the fuck off you pig, did ya? And I just fucking threw him on the floor. Coach said, you're arrested on so on place. I fucking made it up, I did. I'll be honest with you now. And I've read his Colitis card before that and the things that he'd done, the acts that he'd committed and I felt physically fucking sick. And I was faced with this piece of shit. I couldn't help myself. I needed to put him in lock him up. So I called the van up, put him in the back of the van and aired a clump and then we arrested him. We took him back to the police station and charged him just with Section 4. We didn't go with Salt and Police, Section 4 Public Order. We got him off. I said, that's him. He's locked away in there, so fuck him. And then it wasn't all the time but every now and again when we came across sick individuals another one, another one. He was fucking horrible. His shit was just as bad as the other ones. I mean, there's standards in life. An ordinary human being does not do these things. So therefore in my eyes that every time I see these people they've got to be terrorized. They've got to be fucking, I'm watching you. It wasn't always getting a clump but it was like, I'm watching you. Where the fuck are you going? Make sure they're on their toes. Do you know what I mean? They're going to do anything. They're going to be looking. They're going to be fucking having to think hard and fast if they're going to do it or not. And we used to beat them up, stitch them up and lock them up. And I'm not sorry for that. I'm not sorry for what I did. On the other side of the coin I didn't subject people to police brutality. I think as a police officer the most important asset you've got is your gob. So if you're dealing with people on a day-to-day basis there's no need to be a road fucker. There's no need to have an attitude. If you haven't got confidence in yourself physical confidence then some people because they haven't got physical confidence they've never sort of been in the gym been in the ring and stuff like that so they're not physically capable. They've got the uniform because it says place written on it they're fucking invincible. No, you're not. And I had people with me that would start a fucking fight in an empty room. They didn't have anything about them but they didn't know how to communicate with people so they get the wrong impression over and they gave an attitude like I said before, affects your attitude affects my attitude and you raised the bar to the point where now you're arresting someone when you didn't need to. So when I sort of there was like-minded officers the same as me but these sort of people it wasn't often it was every now and again so I wasn't on a crusade knocking every 30 men out it wasn't like that it was every now and again if I set them all sat up and then we'd deal with them but it was the realisation that there's some fucking horrible people out there. Another one I think the worst one or the one that I still think about is this fella he robbed someone horrible little fuck who he was they had a knife I think he stabbed the fella in the hand we caught him we caught him in the street and we had a fight with him and got in the mouth of him and handcuffed him and he'd stolen about six quid but we couldn't find the money so we said to him right we're gonna have to strip search him and he'd got previous for locking a kid in a fucking cupboard in his flat you know what I mean the kid a 12 year old kid or something that was a neighbour locked him in a fucking cupboard the weirdo so he goes you ain't searching me so we're gonna have to anyway he started fighting as we took his clothes off he had a fucking bra run and then we realised why he was fighting we took his jeans off he's got fucking nickers on the suspenders alright so we've left him because he was an horrible cunt we just left him in that gear and chucked him in the cell kept his clothes and put him in there in the stockings of the suspenders right didn't give him a paper suit fuck you and then we found out we went on the crime reports and we found that women were reporting there under were being stolen off their washing lines what was this fucking nut nut and when we went round his ass he had tons of fucking nickers and bras and you know what he's done to them didn't ya do you know what I mean you think ah so we went back to him I said to the sergeant listen we gotta remind him we can't let him we can't bail him because back then the sergeant or the inspector would decide whether or not you're getting bail or you're getting it we'll charge you we're gonna keep in custody and put you before the court and the sergeant said no I'm just gonna bail him and I said I fucking don't I said he's a dirty horrible he's just a wrong one and anyway they bailed him he never turned up for fucking bail right never turned up to court charged him and bailed him never turned up for court I then transferred to the Met and then I hear on the news this same piece of shit as there was a hotel with the Cumberland hotel I think it was and that was literally joining my playstation Mariliband he'd gone in there and he'd raped a woman in a hotel room and I caught him in Sussex in a stolen MR2 and I'm thinking fucking hell I had that woman Sarah Sands on a couple of weeks ago old man abused her three sons he'd over nearly 30 crimes over 40 years abused her sons he got bail she went around to say and look admit this or my sons need to go through all this torment again she was calling her sons a liar he said no they're telling lies and then she'd done him man killed him she got three and a half years but Mariliband she was doing her three and a half years she doubled her sentence she got seven years fucking hell I mean the trouble you've got is people don't realise these individuals a sex offender and a pedophile it's built into their DNA as far as I believe that's what I believe it's built into their DNA you cannot rehabilitate these kind of people no matter what you do my priority is the victims because these people are giving people life's fucking sentences at the end of the day the survivors a lot of them they try and get over it there are a lot of that done and ultimately commit suicide while we as a society not making sure these people are locked up for long periods of time they use these buzz words safeguarding safeguarding to me is locking these fuckers up when they've done their first offence like in something to meet a child for sex whatever they call it that should be a five year sentence straight away and you should do five years we need to safeguard the kids these people have got too many rights they've got too many things going from that they know they're not going to get locked up it's like a child porn they're going five year sentence if you get caught with any form of child porn in your phone or in your computer you should be banged up for five years you get caught again ten years get these people off the streets because at the end of the day they are not going to change they are not going to change and how many if you go through the records how many re-offend fucking most of them most of them they're not going to change but the UK sentences are too lenient the UK here we give them community service we can let them change their name for under 20 quid and then they're back out harming other kids places like Russia they're getting a life sentence for touching a kid even once Australia's taking their passports their driver licence where you can't leave the country the UK protect them why it's so deranged even in Scotland where the guy raping two women put a wig on goes to coa and they try to put them in a female prison and people are actually defending them saying they get feelings fuck his feelings he should be getting locked up thrown away the key I've always said this with the death penalty bring it back for sex offenders like you say they can't change the mindset it's scientific control but they can't change that no matter what happens two years since, three years since they ain't going to change the way they think about kids as you would put elsewhere people should have the rights to know who's getting put into their streets who's getting put into their teachers and people are just changing identities now and it's too easy for sex offenders and sex cases to then go around kids you've got all the transvestites and drag queens around kids like majority might have good intentions but kids shouldn't be around drag queens while their dicks are out their tits are out they're wearing stockings and thongs and that's not right for a kid a kid shouldn't be seen that and I'll say this I don't have anything against anybody as long as I'm not harming anyone and bringing kids involved then do what you want like do you see do you see that method of thinking as deranged that you see them like well there's no you're never going to change that anybody ever came forward because I think there was somebody on Twitter who had the tendencies of being attracted to kids and basically a pedophile but he'd never acted on it but he can still watch his sister's kids his other brother's kids but he spoke out about it he has those thoughts but he doesn't act on it do you think anybody, the giant people have ever came forward to get help to say that I need help because how hard is it when you've got an addiction or whatever from drink our drugs are gambling to come forward and it makes something that's a grey area that's a fucking that's a hard one giant think there should be more things in place for people but whether people would come forward and say they've got those tendencies is a different story but do you think there should be enough things in place for people to go definitely if there's something in place where people who have got the tendency can be identified themselves to these people then that's what we need we don't want to run around under the radar with these tendencies because they might at some stage act on them you know otherwise been of the opinion that the most important person in these type of situations is the survivor the person who's the perpetrator at the end of the day as far as I'm concerned you've got no rights you gave up your rights as an ordinary decent human being to be protected by the law when you touched the child or you looked at child pornography but therefore to safeguard these people which are the priority you are going to be locked up for a long time and what we should do is people with drug habits minor criminals, petty thieves they should be put on community service take them at the prisons and put these fuckers in their cells because that way they're off the streets they don't need to be supervised by the police in terms of having to check on these people let the prisons deal with them lock them up five years, ten years, life, whatever I don't really give a fuck as long as they're off the streets because the question that I'd ask anyone is if you're at a bus stop with your kids who would you rather be stood next to some of them have a drug problem or a petty faith or a fucking pedophile or a sex case it's a simple answer isn't it and as I said I've explained what I've done with sex cases and unfortunately I don't regret what I did it's not right legally it was wrong completely wrong morally is a different sort of question I would bite your teeth for what you've done at the bus stop and I'm not defending myself what I did but if you understand when you're in that environment I mean the bravest police officers that you could ever have are the ones that do child sex crimes and women have been sexually abused that is a tough gig CO19 farms, officers, anti-terrorism coppers all the singing, all dancing, tough guys those people, those individuals that are doing that kind of stuff I mean I've got open respect obviously for all police officers but those individuals that have got the mental strength to do that when I've read things that these people have done it was just, you know it wasn't good What's the leap and are you unhappy with the field? Luckily I haven't done that I've read evidence in the file Do you think you could hold your tape brother? No I couldn't I'll admit mate I wasn't the best police officer Why are you so passionate about that? I just think it's the worst crime you could commit it's the fucking worst crime you could ever commit touching a kid or looking at that sort of stuff you know that's something I don't believe in God and I don't believe in the devil but if there was a devil I'd say these are the fucking disciples do you know what I mean and as I said having read stuff and having been briefed on what had happened to a kid and what they did to him and being in front of the kid and seeing the state of him I mean that's to me is my worst nightmare just to see someone like that so then to be faced even though I'm in police uniform to be faced with a piece of shit that perpetrates these crimes I wasn't strong enough I wasn't professional enough to just fucking let it go I wasn't professional enough and this is where we come into impartiality and then obviously you're not a good police officer you're not fucking the uniform you're vigilante probably was all those things you know what can I fucking say I'm not a saint as we'll soon find out but I have a set of principles do you know what I mean and three of them is don't hit coppers don't hit old people women or you know sexually abused kids any of those things you do then you're in trouble it's as simple as that now old school criminals knew what the score was back in the day if they hit a copper they're gonna get a double clump they know what the score is because that's part and parcel of you know back in them days nowadays it's completely different there's a lot of people fucking place it in people I don't agree with police brutality I don't agree with it in any way, shape or form but there's certain times in a police officer's life where he's gonna have to use sheer fucking violence it's either you or the individual and I've got a problem with the police into days sort of society and I've always had it really in terms of a police officer should be as fit as fuck it should look the part well I say fat boy walking down the road with his hat on I'm thinking what are you gonna do if your colleagues having his head kicked in 100 meters away you're not getting there you owe it to yourself as a police officer as a human being but when you step into that uniform you owe it to yourself your family your colleagues and the public to be as fit as you can be you're not an orange on a toothpick not a fucking little skinny person or a big fat blob you need to be fit get yourself down to a certain level a decent level of fitness the police fitness test is a joke the police self-defense training is a joke it's all worrying about if someone gets hurt we might get sued listen if these people are worried about getting hurt get the fuck out of here because when you go on road and you're in a fight and I've seen it police officer's freeze my personal opinion is you should be obviously you've got a good communication skills that's your you know they can say your tactical options like your baton and your ass your spray your taze in there firstly it's your gob you've got to be able to talk to people because most of the time I would be able to talk to people reasonably I was confident in my own physical abilities I'm not a fucking ardena but I could fight I was a fighter trained for years day in day out two, three hours a day so I'm confident my nose is flat I can take a punch so if someone hit me it wouldn't faze me but some of these people that are in the job they've never had any kind of physical confrontation now they're stepping into the lion's den like I said life's not a bubble of fucking cherries you're going to come across people like that that are nasty, horrible, bad people and they will turn around and knock your teeth down your throat so there's an element for me that the self-defence training people should get their asses down the gym go boxing do UFC training you know all that kind of stuff learn how to take a punch and learn how to fight properly because arm bars and arm locks and all this touch they teach the place to do doesn't work on when you're on your own we might be five or six years, yeah that's fine but if you're on your own then it's time to tie with someone and you can't fight a punch, you're fucked I'm not advocating as a son I'm not advocating everyone goes that starts whacking people I'm saying when it comes down to it you've got two choices when you're in a life or death situation you have a fight like a deck of cards because you're worried about getting a complaint or you end up on a fucking slab or you end up on a slab did you get PNLA's for that? when I did which is what I did I sorted these pedophiles and stitched them up no, my colleagues were around me we were all of the same opinion we stick together they're dirty fucking horrible people I was more interested in how can you put it? see you go to a job the people, as I said to you before spending time with decent people but you see the worst in people you join the place you see the absolute fucking worst in people I mean I was from the East End I was on the streets you know I was you know I've done a fair bit but as soon as I got dropped into the you know the place it was a fucking nightmare you know sort of all your thoughts that you have you know you've got to change you've got to be completely utterly impartial and I failed on that you know I put my hands up like I said I just couldn't I couldn't comprehend I couldn't deal with these people I thought you're fucking dangerous you know you're a child molester and you're standing there and you're laughing you're fucking funny you know what I mean so in my eyes every time I see you I'm going to fucking terrorise you and you're going to know what it's like to be a fucking victim there and it wasn't on a day to day basis it was every now and again we'd see these individuals you know what I mean one little fuckery he was going in women's clothes shops saying oh I just want to try my wife's up for my wife she's the same size as me so I just try it on here we go and then start like masturbating waiting for the woman to come over and open the curtain I mean what the fuck you know what I mean another one sniffing around young children with a long record and I'm thinking he's done all this but he's still walking the streets what the fuck's going on why do you think the sentences are too lengthy in the UK I think a lot of it's to do with the prison population I generally think there's not enough room the judges have given Skype and say look we can't keep knocking them up I mean the worst thing is I think last year or the year before sex offences against children and young people it's the highest it's ever been I mean we could save phones and the internet are a lot too blind for that but again the sentencing is just shit you know it's I just genuinely believe listen if we had a lot of ex-military personnel when you come out of prison you've got fuck all you go and see a probation there's no motivation in jail you go to work you come back to jail you go to gym do you know what I mean you've got a set sort of routine when you come out of jail you've got nothing so as far as I'm concerned sort of people with drug habits they should be dealt with on the outside got a clink but they should be given if you had ex-army people working off the probation service that were motivators that maybe got them jobs in warehouses there's plenty of fucking jobs in warehouses shops and stuff like pick them up in a mini bus from wherever they are drop them off in the morning pick them up at night give them a fucking routine when they come out because they come out to nothing and what do they do they revert to type they go back to the same environment and pick up where they left off because they've got nothing to change that environment some don't get me wrong there's other people who think do you know what fucking I can't be going back in there yeah so you've done that for six years neatly to it and neatly it I did yeah Essex from now 92 to 95 and then I transferred to the Met in 95 went to Merida Bone and that was completely different what's different from the beat to the Met because when in the county forces like Essex and you know everyone you know everyone so I was at Greys I knew every copper at Ockenden I knew every copper at Coringham Tilbury so we all know if there was a knobhead in one of the police station we know who they were or grass or something like that do you know what I mean we couldn't trust we'd know if you went to the Met you're not a fucking name anymore you're just a number because there's so many of you but again with Essex as I was saying to you know people go oh he's fucked listen right I've only ever and my colleagues have only ever had proper scraps when we've had to the reason one of the reasons main reasons because there's not enough of us to start proper you know I mean when you're in Essex you've got to be able to talk to people because your backup might be 10 minutes away so you've got you've got a good communication skills you know you're going to nick this person but you can't do anything yet because you need backup so you have to you have to have good communication skills and if you're in the Met it's not signed that's why it's probably got to add a bad reputation back in the day for for people abusing you know public because you'd get someone who's started like I said to before would start a fucking fight in an empty room like copper because he's got bad communication skills what makes a good copper you've got to be well rounded you've got to have life experience you know I personally think ex-military someone who's from a sporting background you know you can have a from offices from all walks of life you've got to have that sort of combination I know but a good copper is someone who can speak that's I keep coming back to it but if you can if you can talk someone down rather than handcuff them on the floor and have a scrap then you're winning aren't you do you know what I mean winning friends and influencing people that's what they say so when did you join the Royal Family I went from Malibu to 98 I went to Royal Protection what was that decision why I made that decision yeah as I said to you because we I was from an old school sort of policing environment so people will know back in the night is what happens if you hit a copper you're going to get a double clump if because who else is there to protect us but us you know so our mindset was that if you if you were sort of police officer then you're going to get a fucking smack so there was a thing back in the day called a reception committee so if you if you hit someone if you you know a police officer you just call up on the reception committee everyone goes back to the police station they line up and as you bring this person through they get a fucking clump of everyone before they get into the custody office was it justified was it right yes and no as I say I'm only going to be honest in my own opinion other people might say well you fucking cunt well that's my opinion yeah no one else is going to protect us and if you don't in our eyes back then it was different society as I said if you don't teach this individual that assault on the police officer you're going to get hurt yourself it will carry on doing it and it could kill someone at the end of the day an example would be one fella it was a nice like it was a beat officer and he used to go around to the schools and the old people's homes and do all the stuff that you know people want to see a police officer he did want to be running around in police cars and you know with sirens on he just wanted a quiet life riding a bike which is fine you know he wasn't he wasn't physically capable either if you know what I mean he was just a nice blunt and his nickname was Wilf because they called him Wilf because he was always in old people's arms eating tea and cake and on one particular occasion he was on a night journey it was on his own a single crewed and all the local yobbs knew him and used to take the piss out of him because he didn't have anything about him anyway he's gone to this this disturbance one night and they've just kicked the absolute fuck out of him absolutely bad in do you know what I mean for no good reason so we we went down there we systematically got on one by one and we fucking smashed the pieces and as far as I'm concerned rightly so ten people onto one police officer yeah no you've got to set an example you've got to set an example to these fucking thugs that don't care about the law they're terrorising old people they're fucking robbing people and they're doing this that and others do you know what I mean you've got to cut the head off the snake that's that's what we thought that's how we were back in them days it wasn't about going around beating everyone up it wasn't it was about when you're involved with dangerous people that are willing to go and do that to a police officer you've got to fire with fucking fire and close them down and shut them down and put them back in their place and make them understand if you do that this is what we're going to do and that's how it was so I've gone to the Met I've gone to the Met similar thing happened two British transport police officers were viciously assorted by four scumbags they beat the shit out of them at Oxford Circus train station so I I turned up with a colleague we were in the Sherpa van back then we just had bent seats it didn't have cages anything like that and they've put one of these scumbags in the back of our van I've jumped in the back but unbeknownst to me a female officer from Holburn had got into the passenger seat I didn't know who she was so that was that was my mistake because if you're going to deal with something the way we as I said we deal with it make sure you have your own people I didn't didn't see her get in the van anyway so I had a conversation with this fellow explained to him I'm going to take the cuffs off and we're going to have a fucking straightener again I'm not being a big man or anything like that but that's how it was it's just mate, you can't go around look the state of them to officers for no good reason because you're pissed up and you was hassling people and they've come to ask you to fuck off on nicely and you've turned on them alright so we ended up having a scrap and I knocked him out and this officer had heard me say about a straightener and something and she had discovered she couldn't see exactly what had gone on but she looked around and he was uncuffed and he was unconscious and she'd reported it to her inspector and back in them days it was just starting to come where officers were the supervisor before would sort of fuck it off and say listen, go and sit down don't worry about it and leave it and wouldn't take the complaint any further but this time this inspector did and I got word that anti-corruption would come and down to interview me about an assault so I wrote my statement at because what they'd do is they'll come down and go, alright listen it's nothing bad but we should have a little chat off the record what happened? and they're fucking all miked up do you know what I mean? for any officers there they never ever talk to the anti-corruption commander unless it's on tape and always have your prepared statement and I said I said it's not a statement chief inspector they said alright I said I can't talk to anything more so I just read the statement that's what I remember or I'll read it for you so it's alright and then he said to me alright the person at the scrap didn't make a complaint about me he got charged with assault on police but never mentioned a word about what happened alright so it wasn't a complaint from him it was just this officer he said alright look we're going to let this go this time he said I know what you fucking did he goes I understand why you did it I said but you can't fucking do these things anymore he goes they're taught at training school now officers coming through training school that if they see something they don't like they need to report it to a supervisor and I just thought okay my my sort of way I thought which is rightly or wrongly you know a lot of it to my colleagues and whatever else as far as I'm done I'm done I was quite wealthy at the time you know I was importing Porsches and Mercedes because I wanted to be a millionaire as I said I was buying and selling property you know I had a nice car two nice cars Mercedes so I had money wrapped around me did I need to stay in the job not really but I did because I love the environment I love the people I work with don't you love the violence though and you got away with it a bit more because you were a copper no I did most of the violence I did was in the ring you know I did buy a box for the met I won the heavyweight title so the violence that I did was on people that would attack police officers or we had to fight them most of the time we would restrain them properly and deal with them properly like I said at the end of the day I don't want to disrespect people but if I'm arresting you you're going to have to come with me one way or another you know what you do you can't not everyone's going to come quietly you know if I can put someone in cuffs quickly and safely and get them away then that's what I'm going to do it's the point where you know you're going to have to have a fistfight with this person because there's two of you are dangerous and whatever else and you're going to have to take care of business or try to anyway don't get me all being flung about and all the rest of it but sometimes you have to fight far with far as I said to you do you think that's years and years have been in the job you kind of lose yourself though yeah you do you can lose yourself and you forget what you're actually there for yeah I did I lost myself do you know what I mean I you know I lost I lost the qualities that you should have to be a police officer I did what can I say is that the last straw then in the van you say you've got money you've got property you've got cars why not just love as I said as I said I got in the environment of being a being a police officer and I enjoyed the camaraderie I mean we was you know everyone back in the days we used to have a good laugh and all the rest of it you know when the chips were down we were there for each other and you know as I said that's when it came to you know when it came to the can after each other that's where it went I'm not saying that's standard across the board for all police officers it wasn't do you know what I mean you know we were certain officers had the same mindset you know you can't tar what I did back in the day you can't tar over I'm with the same brush you know but I didn't want to get assaulted anymore I mean the reason again I got assaulted when I was in the first year of my job I went and tried to deal with this fellow who was drunken disorderly I said look you know I was I could take care of myself I was too frightened to actually use my skills that I knew I could use because I was just a young copper I was pretty new and because of that because of that fear this I let this individual get too close to me and he headbotted me and we ended up having a and I held him but I was shaken usually I can deal with calmness if we're dealing with a violent situation the most important thing is to be calm and focus and know what you're doing it's when you're not calm and it's when you're not focused is when the person you're trying to restrain gets hurt and the most important thing in this violent situation is you have to to fucking restrain him so what happens then after that event it got off at cold it got off at cold not guilty I went to Snaresbrook and probably I didn't give my evidence like I should have done I was young in the job or whatever else you know and I thought do you know what that's the first and last time I'm going to get assaulted in the neighborhood law was that when you decided to what for the Roe family no that was that was an Essex and then obviously I ran a friend of mine who was on the Royal Protection Squad and he was running the self defence training up there and he said why don't you come up and run it with me obviously as a Royal Protection Officer so that's what I did I said yeah fuck the streets I've had enough and I went out to Roe it was quite uneasy as I say you know the masonic influence back in the day was quite strong it wasn't like what you know it was who you know and so I was giving the answers to the questions I asked in the interview I was giving pictures of members of the Roe family and they wrote the names so I knew so there was two sergeants and two civilians like admin people so there's two two places and they I was cleared up but these two didn't so they were asking all these questions and I was going bum bum bum he knows everything and yeah so I got straight in we went up there for a day first just to have a look round and and let people have a look at you clicky environment I mean I remember it's you know it's well paid job role protection is well well paid how much we're talking you can earn up was a 70 grand a year yeah you can smash it because the protection has to be at a certain level so the overtime they were paying there it couldn't go between a certain level the amount of officers on post it you know had to be that level so if there was short they would pay for overtime and all the rest of it and Scotland they would go up to Balmoral so you could earn you could earn a serious amount of money we used to drive past when I was at Malibu we used to drive past the fellows on the gate thinking fuck you know look at it what a boring job and when I got up there they said I sat down at the store and said yeah we used to look at you like look at them fucking idiots working for a living and it was true you know and when I went in there there was a lot of old officers in there do you know what I mean my mate said oh come up it's a hope you know we'd have a laugh fucking old people's like I've come off the streets fresh from the streets like with a bit of swag and I've walked into an old people's home and I was like fuck you now but that came you down that job yeah it did it calmed me down and yeah you know I went on a firearms course and two week fire intensive firearms course which I had to pass and yeah and went there and it was it was a good time but it was old school coppers on there which is you know I said about old school and you know I was whatever I you know things I did but it was old school so everyone was collecting together you know and discretion was the word but when you join Royal Protection you're not a police officer anymore you're now part of the Royal House therefore your lol is to the Queen and the family and you know that environment which is very which is a very it's a policing you know it's very different because you're now you're not a play you're not placing anymore you're not looking protection yeah yeah yeah you're not you're not being proactive anymore in terms of going out looking for crime that's that's not your role anymore your role is to protect the Queen and the integrity of the palace you know what was your first day like um my first day I got I got put on post with these these two these two older coppers um both pair of tubby blocks and one was nicknamed was Doug the Slug right and uh so we're on post at the side door bucking gate and they're standing there looking at people going by and I was like trying to settle into this new role and all of a sudden these two cars shunt one shunt of this car boom that happens everyone goes oh I went fucking hell and they just listen what's on this side of the line where are you about what's on that side of the line the locals worry about so keep your fucking nose out I was like you can't do that so I went I went over there and I made sure everyone was alright and then waited for the local police to come along I went back over there I said what do we fucking tell you I said because you can't be doing things like if you want to do that piss off back to division I was thinking really you know and that's that's what it was like it was like police block and bucking on pallets at one time I said this before on lead bible and it was starting going mad and he shot me he's telling secrets and all that listen mate it's 30 years ago right it doesn't matter if I tell you there was 30 police officers there or 300 it doesn't matter you know there's usually about 30 on shift and then obviously you've got to remember that back then there was sophisticated alarm systems and all kinds of things that obviously would arise after Fagan had got in so it would be pretty difficult you'd be tracked if you went to any part of the palace you'd be tracked literally until we got to you there was a lot of procedures a lot of lock down that would happen and helicopters and dogs and I mean it'd be surrounded in fucking minutes so you'd have about 30 on shift at any one time armed obviously and And, um, and yeah, it was, it, I never really, there was a, there was a time someone said to me, oh, did anyone ever get in the palace when you was there? And they did. I forgot. I forgot. It was fathers for justice. I think I fell in a Batman costume, managed to get on the colon aid and climb along. Um, I don't think the Queen was in that day, but he, he, but we tracked him. We could see him. Do you know what I mean? It's not like he got in and we didn't know where it was. He just climbed up and come along. The alarms all went off and he retracts and, uh, yeah, that was on the news. Who lived in the palace when you were looking? The Queen, the Queen, Prince Philip and Prince Andrew, um, which I was there six years saw him on a fairly regular basis. And he's a men talking point, isn't he, Prince Andrew? Like, how was he treated? Um, he was, he wasn't well liked. He was, he's a fucking plum, if I'm going to be honest. He was rude of noxious. I don't know, I've said it, I've said it in loads of, uh, interviews. He was a rude of noxious individual. He was just a nasty, nasty, horrible little man. He's never heard the word now in his life. You know? And I always said if, if Prince Philip has stuffed the bar of soap in his gob the first time he tells a servant to fuck off, most of this probably wouldn't have happened. You know, he had the run of the place. Um, I never really had any problems with any other members of the royal family in the way I did before, not just me, all of us. You know? Um, he was just, he was just a horrible individual. So rude when there was no need to be rude. You know? And I, I couldn't believe the first time he told me to fuck off with him, really. He's like, what? If that was on, on the streets, he'd be getting folded in half like a piece of paper and put in the back of a place fan. And he was like that. It's like, fuck you, no, that's Prince Andrew talking to us like that. It was a shock. But then you get used to it and you think, oh, because the gate wasn't opening in time or the barrier didn't come down. It's like, fucking him, you see, I was, it's like, what are you talking about? We're here to protect you. What have you got been off for? You know? What was the story before he was tethered, Bill? Oh, mate. So basically, we, uh, on the weekends, the Queen, the Queen and Prince Philip would go to Windsor and Andrew would fuck off as well. So the apartments were empty, royal apartments empty. We'd have to go and do alarm checks and all their personal attack alarms. So, certain places there's, there's buttons for them to press if there's an issue. So we had to use, to have to go around all the bedrooms and check to make sure they're all in working order. We did it at the weekends and a couple of us and the inspector went into his apartment. Probably when I first went up there, I think. And he had fucking tons of teddy bears on his bed, like loads. And 72, I didn't realise it. I said 50 originally and then the maid said, no, it was 72. And I was like, fuck, what's going on here? And then the inspector said, in the drawer there, he'd got a laminated card of picture of all these teddy bears on the bed. He goes, he goes, basically, if the maids don't put the teddy bears back exactly like this, isn't that picture? He goes into one, he flips. I was like, what? You know, it's just, and then you think, there's some sort of coercive behaviour, isn't it? You know what I mean? You will put my fucking teddy bears back in that place when I'm going to abuse you. And that's what he did. The maids were scared of him. You know? In fact, that maid, one of them who came for it, I did an ITV interview. And I think that's where it came out. And the maids saw it and came forward and said, look, he's telling the truth. And you know, he had to run up four flights of stairs to shut his curtains and he was sat right next to him. You know what I mean? What's that all about? Did you ever feel any different sort of energy with him? We're obviously working in the police force and being around all the nasty people. Did you ever feel a presence that there's something not right with him or did you just think he was a spoiled kid? I just thought he was a sport, yeah, sport fella, sport bloke. Yeah, he's, he had no regard for people we say below him. We're all human beings, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? He had a title, HRH, just because you've got a fucking title doesn't mean you're a good person. Do you know what I mean? Was he the favorite? Yeah. I mean, he got away with absolute fucking murder. I mean, you know, we were letting people in. We didn't know the fuck they were. And then if we said anything, we'd get the top shut up. You know, it was one of them ones. What do you do? You're working as a road protection officer. If you don't like it, fuck off back to the streets and roll around with a drunk on a Friday night. You know, and what where where you going with his pit was saying, oh, you should have made, we've made complaints to supervisors, but where's it going to go? Who's going to go to the Queen and say, you need to really me? Because they'll just say, really, fuck off, get your kid and fuck off. You know, the commanders, road protection commanders, not going to go to the Queen and say, oh, Prince Andrew, the Royal Household are a machine. You know what I mean? That's what people need to understand that you can't be going and making complaints about members of the Royal Family. That's just not how it is, unfortunately. You know, and, you know, if you cross them, then you're in trouble. I mean, there was things that went on there that I wasn't comfortable with again. There was one of the cleaners and another thing is domestic violence. I thought I hate people, you know, do that to women. But she came in one day, she had a drink problem. You know, there's a few, a few, you know, members of staff that did have drink problems and the Queen looked after him. She's a really nice person. She knew that they had, you know, had problems and she'd just turned a blind eye. And this particular cleaner came in with a black eye as I was on post and I was like, you're all right? She talked to him. She said, yeah, yeah, I'm all right. Didn't really want to say too much. She didn't want to talk and just went into the palace. I said, I wonder what's going on anyway. Let it go. And then a couple of weeks later, she's fucking coming over to another one. I said, what's going on? She went, oh, nothing, nothing. Well, her husband was a security guard down at the muse. And then we found out he'd been knocking her back. So I went to the government and said, listen, we have to lift him. He can't be having that. He's, you know, report this domestic violence. You can't be having this. And she had a cut lip as well. He goes, oh, I'm going to speak to the household. So I went up to the household and they fucking told us to leave it. He goes, oh, I'm just going to go and have a word with him, but we're not going to do anything about it. I'm thinking, what? What do you mean you're not going to do anything? It's like, what? We're just going to turn the fucking blind eye to domestic abuse. We couldn't believe it. So anyway, there's, there's inspectors gone down to their private, private flat within the palace yet then, then moves. And I've had a word with him. He's come back, he's fucking out of the gates. He's alone. I said, what do you mean? Because he's got Nazi memorabilia all over his ass, all over the flat. Right. So what? So anyway, we didn't leave it. On night duty, he was working with us. So we took him down into the car park, half a dozen of us. We basically said to him, listen, we know what you're doing. If your wife comes in with one more bruise, you're going to end up with half a dozen. So we stuck it on him. And after that, yeah, she seemed okay. But I just couldn't get my head around why have we got to fucking not deal with him as it was on road. He'd be lifted. Do you know what I mean? What happens if he kills her for fuck's sake? How much stuff is swept under the carpet in the royal household? There is a lot of stuff. I mean, like I said, I'm not a dislo prick, you know, I've, I've opened my gob, but there's certain things I want to talk about, do you know what I mean? I'm not doing it for me, you know, I'm doing it because people should know what Prince Angel and I'll bed my soul and I'll, and I'll, there's more to come about what I've done. You know, I'm not going to sit here and, you know, tell you things to make myself look good. I'm, you know, people are going to look at me and think he's a cunt, which is fair enough. But at the end of the day, I can't change what I've done. I'm talking about it because some people might, might sort of, some of the things I'll talk about might relate to that and it, somehow might open, do you know what I mean? But there's a lot of things that were swept under the carpet. I mean, another incident that I've spoken about but has never been aired was a CD member of the Queen's team came up to us one night was at the front of the palace and he was pissed and he said, because I need you to go and get my briefcase back. I've been assaulted and I said, oh, calm down. What's going on? Because I was in a, it turns out he was in a topless bar and he's a great one of the waitresses and he's got a slap by the bansers. I've rightly fucking saw, but I've chucked him out and he's not got his briefcase back. So when we've heard the story, he said, listen, mate, just go home. I don't give a fuck who he is. You know, I mean, if that's what you've done, then, sorry, what do you want me to do about it? He said, no, I want you will get my breast. I won't do anything. And he's talking to me like I'm a piece of shit. So I called the governor and he's gone, he's then said, I've got palace papers, secret papers in this briefcase. Obviously, once he said that, we're fucked, aren't we? So we've had to go to the club and retrieve the briefcase. And the bansers said, listen, his hands are like, it's sexual assault at the end of the day. You know, when I said to him, well, we didn't say to him, we should have said to him, you know, just you want to make it. I mean, they probably get it all the time. It's not right. But back then the game. So it was a creepy little fucker and he's anyone close to the Queen. What do you think? A special all this stuff out about now? Yeah, look, I whether it did he sleep with Jufre? I don't know, you know, assumptions are the mother of all fuck ups. We can assume things based on what's been said, but we don't know the full facts and the full evidence because it's never been ed. You know, I mean, Prince Andrew, from what my perception is, like I said, with the Royal Household, if you are like with Prince Prince Diana, when I came up to Royal Protection, a lot of the officers had a massive dislike for Prince Charles because they blamed him for her death. Yeah. And the way she was treated by the Royal Household, because once you deviate from their script, the knives are out for you. Yeah. And so you've got a she was brought in as breeding stock. That's how these upper class people look at it. She was just brought in purely to provide an heir to the front. Prince Charles didn't have any sort of, you know, care for her because he was seeing Camilla. And you know, was she treated badly? I believe so. A lot of my colleagues believe she was. And so the household, they don't change. They're like that. I mean, the Meghan Markham situation, I'm not defending her. I'm not having to go at her, but she's probably come into that environment. And I've said, they give you a list. So right, you're not going down the shops anymore. You're not going. This is your list of engagements for the rest of your fucking life. Because that's what happened to Queen. She knew what she was doing every fucking day because it was put in front of her first thing in the morning. You go in here, you go in there doing this, you're meeting this person. I mean, it's, for me, that's not a nice life. I mean, she's, you know, my hat off to her, but would you want that kind of life where you're now being told exactly what you're going to do in each fucking day. And I think similar to that's what's happened. And people say, oh, she was told before she was going to happen. Fine. That's fine. But people can change their mind, can't they? It's a different thing knowing what you're going to do to when you're actually doing it. So I'll ask what I think, you know, the Royal Household turned against. I did say that what happens is you get a lot of articles in the press, a source said, a spokesman said, a friend said, no, it's the Royal Household are putting these things out there. They're putting stories out there to try and co-est the public into believing in what they want you to believe. Do you know what I mean? The source said, or a friend of Prince Andrews said, well, why hasn't the friend got the balls to put his name on that fucking statement that he's just said? Stand up and tell us how you are. So what I go for the Prince Andrew interview, he's just not the sharpest tool in the shed. Like, I think because he's always getting people saying yes to him, I think he thinks people are stupid like that interview with Jeffrey Epstein thing and breaking up. It was a convicted sex case. He's went and parted with them for five days because he didn't want to hurt his feelings. And he thought it would be a chicken to go and speak to him like, was that, did you see, was Prince Andrew just a party boy who just loved birds and party or as a question marks with younger kids? Yeah, I mean, this is, this is what I've been asked a lot, a lot. And all I can say is what I saw. And that is, women in their 20s, early 20s to the late 20s, probably coming in and out frequently, different times that usually after five o'clock when the palace is shut, these individuals turn up. We were not privy to the names, which is obviously a security issue. We should know who's coming to the palace. And I've said this before, you know, if someone turns up, we do get people that have got, you know, sort of psychological issues and say they're here to see the Queen when she was an obviously, obviously clearly they're not, you know, I'm here to see the Queen. I'm here to see Prince Philip. Well, this is what we were getting similar people come here to see Prince Andrew. And I, you know, if people have heard it before, I'll tell the story again. So on one occasion, we couldn't get hold of his footmen. So we're going to have to hold you for a minute until we can just confirm the appointment. So he said, it's fine. I've got his, should I ring Prince Andrew? So we said, yeah, okay. He'd just previously come in about half hour before. And so she rang him and we could hear him on the phone. And he said, put one of the officers on. So my colleague took the phone and he said, listen to me, you fat lard, he asked, come, let my guest in. Now I'm going to come down there. We all heard it and she went bright red and we just thought, in you go. So obviously after that, we just didn't want to be on the wrong side of him. So we were letting people in, coming up, I'm here to see Prince Andrew, I'm here to see Prince Andrew. So we just let them in. Now the problem with that is, or was, and then turn that to be a problem was someone did a similar thing at Windsor. Windsor is, it's placing Windsor turned up in a taxi instead of me to see Prince Andrew. But she actually wasn't anything to do with him. I think she said she was his fiance. Well, the Royal Protection Officers were obviously the same master as we were. Fucking just let her in or we're going to get grief. And she turned out to be, obviously, mentally challenged and was nothing to do with Prince Andrew. And she was left to wander around his private, his private apartment, his private house before she was found and restrained. So obviously to meet the Royal Family, you must be vetted. Well, you must have. Yeah, you go through many things. But if you were, was Jimmy Savela in the palace? I see him come in once. He came in running, running gear, just coming in running gear, like really small shorts on. It was actually a funny blight. Do you know what I mean? I'm with him thinking of everything. So we grew up with this fella, but he did look a bit out of place. I mean, he was going to see Prince Charles, I think. But yeah, he, he was a regular, regular, I've seen him a couple of times, remember once, but yeah, he was a regular visitor. So why do you think all these sex cases and people like Epstein and Jimmy Savela are allowed inside Buckingham Palace or allowed to be around? Well, at the end of the day, they can have who they wanted. The bottom line is they can have who they want in. You know what I mean? We can't tell them not to. I mean, it's like Prince Andrew going to see Epstein or he's a convicted pedophile. Now my issue with that is, and you'd say the same, if one of your friends where he was abroad, you found out they'd done this and he'd just got a jail for it. You'd ring him up and say, delete my number and fuck right off and put the phone down. You wouldn't travel 3000 miles and then spend three days to say goodbye to him, would you? You know? And that was a big issue because he's a senior member of the Royal Family. Why the fuck was he allowed or why did he make sure that he was able to go and visit this individual? Because there had been a lot of security checks in place for him. You know, you'd have the, if they travel, we've got like a section within Royal Protection that deals with all the travel for roles and all the rest of it. So they will liage with local police wherever they go and make sure they know where the local hospital is, the local police station, just if there was an emergency. Same with if they go abroad. He's a senior member of the Royal Family. Therefore, wherever he goes needs to be vetted. I need to know where he's going and who he's going to visit so I can contact the local police. I can do the checks on the premises to make sure it's not owned by the fucking Matthew or Russian state or anything like that where it could be bugged and cameras and then obviously check it. It was coming back to Epstein and obviously they'd say that he's coming to visit Epstein and it would flag up. It would say, but he's a convicted felon. You do know that and they'd go back to Rowan and say, so you do know and it's obviously gone. I'm going. It's obviously gone against their vast for whatever reason that is. There's obviously something there that he was frightened was going to come out or Epstein was going to say about him. That's why he's gone. Otherwise, there's no good reason that the excuse he came up with was absolute tosh. There's something. What it is, I don't know, but he's worried about Epstein and had knowledge of something he'd done. Because I've spoke to a few people who would talk and touch on the craze who are listening to my fucking nonsense as well, but they had information on politicians. That's why they never get sent to prison until somebody burned the evidence and then they end up getting live sentences. As far as I'm aware, do you think Epstein had something on Prince Andrew where they tried to keep him sweet because Epstein would have been a mass manipulator? Yeah. Like I say, Andrew is not the smartest Tony said, do you think Epstein's been feeding him women? Possibly. Maybe not girls, maybe just women, partying and he's got video footage or because if you're on that island with Clintons and Woody Allen's and higher profile names, listen, a lot of people might have just been thinking free holiday or whatever, but there was rumors that Epstein a way back in the 70s. I think he was a math teacher and he was being inappropriate with young girls. So it was always their same as Jimmy Savard. It was always rumors that I think Johnny Rotten outed him away back in the 90s, I think they'd done an interview. But do you think Epstein had something over Prince Andrew? Potentially. I mean, that's how it appears to be for the way Prince Andrew has acted by going to New York to visit him. You know, I mean, to do that and obviously the shitstorm that was created out of that visit to do that, there must have been something Prince Andrew was worried about. Any logical person, if you always say, would a reasonable person do this that and others? Well, would a reasonable person go and visit a convicted sex offender? No, you wouldn't, especially in the position that this person was, a senior member of the Royal Family, you would not do it. You would be advised not to go. And yet he went. So, you know, there is, there is definitely otherwise said he's got questions to answer, but he'll never have to answer them. So did you ever see kids coming to the palace because I had someone on, police whistleblower, they spoke about Ted Heath, who was a prolific nonce, he was a prime minister. He says to the corpors used to bring kids as young as 10 and to see Ted Heath. One of the kids end up snapping and saying, I'm straight, but they two kids get sacked or they get sacked? No, no kids. As I say, it was just, it was all women in their early to late 20s. You know, we never, we never saw anything, any females would think, oh, did your mum know where you are? Do you know what I mean? It was, it was just straight, normal individuals. What about Glen Maxwell? Was she ever there? All the time. She was, well, all the time I've already publicly said that she, she had the sort of the run of the palace, you know, she was in, in and out very frequently. And to the point where we actually thought they were in some form of relationship, you know, no one else had the sort of access to the palace as she did. And that's what gave us the impression that there was a relationship going on. We would just talk the way of her through and not, not sort of get involved when she was coming into the palace. So it's strange though, again, she's just been done for trafficking, like, how these people are all connected with it. I just think the issue you've got with Prince Andrew, what he's got is six or seven of these closest friends are convicted, now convicted sex offenders, you know, I mean, one individual, so you know, suddenly you'd found out, wasn't it? But half a dozen is, that's, you know, I mean, what the fuck's going on? And that's the issue he faces. I mean, he's never going to come back into public life. And as I said, just because he's got a title, it doesn't mean that he's not, you know, let me start that again, just because he's got a title after his name doesn't mean he's a good person. You know, he's proved himself to be less than honorable on so many levels. You know, why are we having to look after this idiot? He's, he's, he's damaged the royal family, you know, badly. I mean, the Harry and Meghan situation has none of my business. But, you know, that's another issue. But the royal family, as it's done now, the Queen's gone. It's, you know, it's, it's starting to crumble. You know, it's starting to just deteriorate into into something that's, I think people are going to be more supportive of the anti monarchist sort of situation. What did you think of the princess? What did you think of Prince Andrews and of you? The interview with Prince Andrew is clear that he was lying on on a number of levels. I mean, that was, that was a mad thing to do. I actually think he, because he's been brought up in this bubble when he's never heard the word no, they actually believed he could pull it off, you know, and that he was that we would believe everything he said. It was complete nonsense, complete and utter nonsense. And that's what killed him. And that's probably the court case that that would have been brought up in the court case had it gone to court. You know, the main person who would have been the sort of the one that's going to bring him down was himself because of the things he said. You know, I don't sweat. Who would have green lighted that in of you? He did. That's what I'm saying. No one's going to say no to Prince Andrew. He would have green lighted that himself. He would have thought it was the right thing to do. I mean, I've said it publicly as well. I mean, to publicly defend the relationship with a convicted pedophile, I mean, that's just disrespecting survivors of abuse all around the world. It just shows his mentality, you know, that he's not even thinking about what he's saying. You know what I mean? And the world's watching and you're talking, you're talking like that. So he said he doesn't swear. He went to see Epstein because he doesn't want to be a chicken to break up with a convicted, a convicted pedophile. He says he went to a pizza shop with the night of, was it Roberts? Do you know his name? Yeah. Virginia Roberts. So what age was that? 17? 17, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. And she says she was trafficked. She went around with three teams that we should all run down and all. What's your opinion on Prince Andrew Epstein, Maxwell? If we put it like this, if it was one of us, I think one that touched the ground, we'd have been interviewed about what the allegations that were made by this individual. But it never happened. I think Prince Andrew's, there's something that Prince Andrew has done that's clear that there was an issue. He's got an issue. And also, I look at the fact that if, again, if someone has made an allegation, which you're saying is a malicious allegation against the royal family, remember the royal family, the royal family surely would have pulled together and used every legal framework that I had and power that I had to defend the individual against this allegation. But they never, they basically left him, left him to it. And I'm pretty sure that the Queen and Prince Charles were the ones that told him to pay the money because he would have gone to court. He would have just talked to himself into the electric chair. He would have just been ripped to pieces. But I don't think the royal family could ever go to court. So why would they even answer in questions? Because I know some country you can't even speak out again. I think it can be questioned. He could have been questioned about what had happened, about the allegations that were made against him, but it wasn't. If the Metropolitan Police deemed legally, I didn't have the framework to even even a voluntary interview. I mean, he did say that he talked to the FBI, but then he never. If you're innocent, you're going to be fucking shouting it for the rooftops. You're going to be saying, listen, of course, I'll support your investigation. Of course, I'll come forward and talk to you because I've done fuck all wrong. Why are you hiding behind your legal team? If that's really what you're telling us that this is the truth, then defend yourself. Don't hide behind a payment and then start gobbling off again. At the end of the day, he's gone too far. He's been connecting with too many bad, bad people, and he just needs to disappear and start the limelight. So seeing when he goes out or fucking on palace, how well kicked him out? Yeah, but how well were they protected when they go out, let's secure it? Well, he would have had a couple of PPI's with him, probably one visit official engagement. He might have a PPI and a backup, a car with four backups in it. But if it's private engagement, he'd just have one PPI within protection officer. But now I think I don't know whether I did say before the Queen had passed away that they'll slim the Royal Family down. I think his security has been slimmed down. I don't know if he's got civilian security there. I don't even know if he's got architecture anymore. What's it like at a private event with the Royal Family? Well, you just get loads of heads. I've been there when President Bush has came in on a Black Hawk helicopter. I've been there when the Putin was there and his security team, Chinese Premier, there's a big security. You can imagine those kind of people come to the palace. There's massive security presence. Who had the bag of security with them? Oh, the Bush. He had fucking loads. They had handheld stinger missiles apparently in the back of the car. They had people on rooftops all in different buildings for fucking miles. Have you got a license to kill? Have I got a license to kill? Not a license to kill. When you carry a farm as an AFI, obviously you've got a certain list of rules, most of them I've forgotten there, but obviously you're there to protect life and protect property. So if there's a situation where if you don't act, someone could get killed or you could get killed, then obviously you're due your band to use your weapon. And if someone gets killed, then you're going to have to justify it. Was Harry and William ever at the palace when you were there? I'd seen them when they were kids. They were young. They were at St James's when I used to work at different palaces and they were lovely kids. They'd always come and talk to the police and just wave and they were more down to earth. Do you know what I mean? They didn't have that sense of entitlement that the senior roles did. Prince Charles had a sense of entitlement, then he's the future heir to the future heir to the throne. Prince Anne was the same, but the kids were sort of different. They were a lot more friendly. Because obviously you've got the Prince Harry and Meghan Markle thing now that I thought it was quite nobler to start. I thought, because I like Princess Diana, I thought amazing women. And I thought, you know what, to try to look after his wife and his kids, but then I seen them do an interview after an interview, Netflix, books and podcasts. And I'm thinking, has he been manipulated? It looks for my judging of appearance and way I see it as, I feel as if he's been manipulated by her. And both of them have just kind of forgotten who they are. Well, not her specifically. I don't know if she's pulling the strings, but what do you think the whole Harry and Meghan thing? I think he's come across as quite an angry bloke that's got a lot of issues. And he's gone and made him in public. I mean, you know, it's not for us to say whether that's wrong in terms of if that's his personal feelings and he wants to shout to the world what he's done. I think the issue with some people is the money that's being made out of that. Yeah. That's what I personally think. Obviously they're making a lot of money. So is his grief being commercialized? Is he genuinely this upset? And he probably is because he's been through a lot. But then obviously you've got the amount of money that's being made. So it's a fucking odd one to sort of work out what's right and what's wrong. For him it's right, but maybe for the Royal Family it's wrong. He's gone down that path and then there's no turning back. So he's going to have to deal with the situation. I can't see why he left and try to protect his wife. I get it if it's to do with his mum. I don't know if he's manipulated to then they're saying they want a peaceful life, but then they're doing books and they're speaking out against his brother like that's no matter what's happened. Like you don't speak out against your brother like that's a sin and it's all in that. What was the Queen like? She was a really nice lady. I'd spoken to a number of, well you don't speak to the Queen. She speaks to you. I mean some people get young with that. But that's how it was. She served the country for a long period of time, but she treated her staff with respect. One of her footmen was a raven alcoholic and he would sometimes turn up to open the doors for him. She came back from doing visits and he'd be drunk, but she'd ignore that. She'd ignore that fact and she knew what he was like. One time he came in and the Queen was five minutes away and he came staggering towards us in his penguin outfit. He did it too much. He goes, I need to go through the garden gate to wait for the Queen. I said, hold up, you're off your face. We can't let you go in like that. I called up the Inspector and she knows what he's like lately. She staggered across the fucking gravel forecourt at the palace, let him in the garden gate and he was there waiting for the Queen when she came out and opened the door for her. If that was somewhere else, he'd get the sack, wouldn't he? Yeah. Because she's loyal to her staff. She's just ignored it. Do you know what I mean? Does the staff usually see when people make the food and stuff in the Buckingham Palace? Do people have to test that and eat it fast? I don't believe it. I've never seen that. Anyway, I've never seen that. She's got her own private chefs and I think there's three different sort of food and stuff. There's three different restaurants. You've got the upper class, which is all the senior members of the Royal House. I've got their own restaurant. Then you've got the middle tier. Then you've got obviously the waitresses and the footmen and all that at the lower level. I probably just got a fridge and a fucking microwave. The food side of things, it's obviously one of the best chefs she's got there, isn't she? Do you know what I mean? What was Charlem's like? I didn't really see that much. She's a bit of a loaf. I've never seen him on the grounds as such. He did demolish us every now and again, do you know what I mean? But it wasn't horrible to me or anything like that. I'm not going to disrespect the people that haven't done anything to me or I've not sort of got the vibe, do you know what I mean? But he's single. I think he's just, he's the heir to the throne. He was brought up in a certain way. They're old fashioned. They expect to be looked after and be served. That's how they were. I know there's a lot of negatives with that job as well, but there must have been positive. What was the perks of working in Buckingham Palace? Obviously, you get well paid. You get well paid for it. There's no stress. You're not dealing with the stuff that I've mentioned before when I joined the police. You're dealing with just protection. You get to meet all kinds of people and celebrities and stuff like that. It's just standard, isn't it? Do you know what I mean? You can put your head on your pillow and not have to worry about pipe work, colt or whatever else. What sort of celebrities did you come across? Flipping out. One who was a bit of a tall was Elton John. He turned up one day because I was doing the party in the palace. It was the Jubilee in 2002 and he was coming in to look at, say, on the grounds or something. And I bent his terms. He bent his or something, turned up, and the driver was there and he said, Mr Elton John went, right, I need obviously to see him because I don't know who the fuck you are, but I know you're not Elton John. So he happened to wind down. I said, after him, so he just looked at me and looked away. I thought, you wanker, not even a hello. I thought, do you know what? And yeah, so he wasn't all that, but Ryan May was in there because he stood on the roof. Oh, do you know what? There was loads of people on there. I just can't reel him off me in there. But yeah, most of them are present, by and large. What's the worst thing you've seen in Buckingham Palace? The worst thing I've seen. Well, apart from that domestic incident, I haven't really seen any, when you say worst thing. Give me an example. Just like, did you see any bad stuff? Like, I was at just all kind of normal, just Yeah, no, it was just normal stuff doing their jobs. There wasn't really bad stuff per se that went on in there. Do you know what I mean? It was pretty standard. So what's your whole rundown on the Prince Andrew thing? What's your whole opinion of him? Right. Basically, he just needs to stay out of the public life now. He's done. He's done. Stick a fork in you, you're done. Do you know what I mean? He's got no place in public life. He's said too much and he's done too much. You know, the Epstein visit was one of the nails in the coffin, the interview was the other nail in the coffin, the association with over six or more convicted sex offenders. Do you know what I mean? I mean, we could go on and on and on. He's had 30 years of living a hedonistic lifestyle and it's come on top for him. Why? Because he's never listened to any advice. I don't think he's ever going to change and no one really wants to see him back in any sort of position within the Royal Family. Who's going to want him to come and cut a ribbon on their business? No one. So I don't see there's any way back for him. I mean, he's probably going to try and fight too far now to claw something back, but I don't think it's going to work. Public opinion is so far against him. I can't see him getting anywhere. What's your opinion on the Epstein death? Again, you know, a lot of people, I'm sort of one of these people, you look at the facts, you know, we assume this and we assume that and people say this and that, but what are the actual facts? The trouble you have is when you're dealing with powerful people in that sort of environment that the facts sort of seem to get lost. Do you know what I mean? They sort of get lost and you get a lot of fucking supposition, as it were. So was it did he commit suicide? I think probably. I think probably. Do you think so? What about the stuff that you're doing now, Paul? I know you're doing a lot of charity work. Let's talk showing that. Yeah. As I said to you, I'm doing this interview to try and highlight a charity called Embrace Seavot, which is Child Victims of Crime. And it's a small charity. And it basically helps children that have been directly or indirectly affected by crime and their families and closed counselling and stuff like that. So if people could Google it, Seavot and maybe donate something for these people and make a difference to kids that need help, it really would. And how can people get involved? If you go onto their website, Seavot Embrace Seavot and there's lots of ways you can get involved. You can do charity events if you want or you can donate. So you can get involved. Just go on the site and there's all the connections you need to go and move forward. What are the plans for the future, brother? What have you got planned? I've got a TV work coming up. Whether I decide to do it or not, I haven't chosen that. I think I'm pretty much done now. I've said what I wanted to say about Prince Andrew. It's the truth and there's nothing else I can say about that. I can't add to it. I can't take away because it's out there and there. My issue was I just think people should look at the facts of what I've said about this individual in all kinds of media that work the TV stuff that I've done and form their own opinion. Look at the situation, what he's got himself involved in. Look at the man himself. Look at the people that have come forward to talk about what kind of individual he is and then make up their own mind. Do you have a body for your life? No. I just think it's one of them things, isn't it? Because speaking out again, such a powerful fan. I know. I mean, I've got a lot of support from other police officers and former Royal Protection officers, but they are in fear of coming forward and giving information of what they've got. I've put some of the stuff out there. I've been used as a pipeline to sort of get it out there because they're too frightened because the masonic influence in place was big. And obviously, if a Royal Protection officer speaks out, if they've got a business or something, it could be damaged because people might say, oh, he's gobbling off about the Royal Family. And that's what happened. A lot of people are frightened because they don't want to get the attention drawn on to them and negative attention. Have you all been discredited yet? No. Right, negative post up and the papers are? Oh, yeah. I mean, what happens is, obviously, I went to prison for fraud and obviously, I deserve to get my sentence. Probably should have got a longer sentence if I'm going to be honest with you. You know, I made a lot of bad decisions. There weren't mistakes. They were decisions that I made, conscious decisions which were completely and utterly wrong and it affected a lot of people. But at the time, I'd got myself in so much financial sort of debt, you know, millions that I tried to trade my way out of it on the stock market. I lied to people and I took people's money and told them it was all good when it wasn't. I just didn't have the courage. I didn't have the backbone to stand up and say, look, it's all gone fucking wrong. I had a reputation. I become a millionaire while I was in Royal Protection. So, you know, I had a lot of money and people trusted me because I was driving around in 80,000 pound cars, you know, and I had a luxurious lifestyle. And basically what happened was I took it hit in the markets, decided to create a currency club, put a lot of police officers money and we were dealing with millions. And I went from buying shares to trading spread betting. And spread betting is basically scambling. Well, it's not the stock market, but the difference is when you buy a share, it's got to go up to make money. Spread betting is you can bet on markets to go up or down so you can make money on the markets going down as well as up. And so if I was trading, when I was doing my own thing, I was doing a million pound a month from Buckingham Palace, trading on my fucking phone on the teletext. Yeah. And I had my own dealer with Halifax, you know, I had a half a million pound credit limit with him. So I could buy shares on credit enough to pay for him from 28 days. I was making 20 grand a week, sometimes 30 grand a week. So the money sort of dehumanizes you because you didn't have so much money. And then all of a sudden I got a kick, a bad kick. I managed to get out of about eight or 90 grand. So I lost a lot of money. And then I went into this, I thought I could do it in the spread betting. But if you put 10,000 pound in, and this is important for people who are doing this, you put 10,000 pound in an account, you can trade up to 100,000 pound because you get leverage 10 times amount you put in. What that means is that you can trade 100,000, but if markets go against you, you're going to lose a lot of fucking money. And I started off all right, we started making money. And then it went fucking tits up. And I just, I just, like I said, instead of having the guts to say to people it's all gone wrong, I continued in a corrupt way. And it just came on top. They're like having a contract put out on me. You know, I got locked up in Pentonville for fucking six weeks for witnessing intimidation on police. I mean, that was an eye-opener. Obviously, getting locked up. I was a serving police officer. And I'm put in Pentonville prison. And I stayed for the first day. And I got in with a fellow from a gang in South London. And we got on like a house on fire. And I was in the canteen, queuing up for my food. And I ticked your name off on this list. And this goes page, because you're fucking our bill, you know, I was like, fuck, all right. So you can hear a pin drop. There's a lot about 10 geese behind me. I'm thinking, what the fuck am I going to do? I haven't got a radio net to go urgent assistance on me own. So I thought, right, I've got to think quick. So I went, who the fuck are you talking to? But I'm in there for witness intimidation, which I was. He goes, oh, and he started, I said, what do you want to do about it then, mate? Yeah, I said, I'm not all fucking bill. You said he can't. So because he wasn't too sure, he's like, all right, brother, all right, made a mistake. Right, come down. So you fucking calm down. So I went back to myself and I said to Joel, the fellows, it was a fuck. And then it was it. And he goes, what's that about? I don't know how fuck it went. Fuck all my time about it. So we all get locked up and all the all the canteen boys are still out clean. And anyway, he's gone back to his cell, got a fucking newspaper, my pictures in there. So half a dozen of them have come up with banged on the cell, died on the floor. I'm going, all right, you can't put see the shoe in it. Oh, fuck. So Joel was like, oh, mate, what are we going to do? They're going to think I'm a grass. So sitting there, because we got on, I said, listen, he said, he goes, I've got, I've got people upstairs. My cousin runs the shit in here. He goes, I said, right, I'll sort out some money for him. I put some few quid in his account and gave him to the government. He said, yeah, we'll do that. Anyway, six o'clock in the morning, about four or six groups of companies, big fuckers, they were accomplice. So don't page get your stuff. You're going on the, you're going on the fucking rule. Detection. Yeah, you're going, yeah, you're going on the VP wing. I went, no, I'm fucking not. I mean, if you fucking are, I said, no, I'm not. I said, he's my witness. I said, you put me on that wing. Yeah, I'm going to stab the first person I come across in both eyes. I said, so I'm, there's a witness there now. So if I go on that wing, I'm putting you in the frame for that. He goes, are you telling me you're a danger to have a prison? I went, yeah, fucking am, six cases of nuances. I said, I'm not living with him. So I said, all right, you left the gun on the block. If you're a danger to have a prison, just put you on a punishment block. And I said, yeah, and if anyone's ever been dependent for you, no, that's the worst place to fucking be. It's a shit. I would have prison as a shit. Oh, anyway. But the, the, the, the punishment blocks in, in the fucking basement. And so I got marched down there. It stuck me in it. And it was fucking horrible. And there was all bulk rowing in the fucking malls and down the sink. And I was like, what's this? No, I don't know. It's been in this cell. So what you do is when you get a serious cleaning, you've got to clean it because there's all kinds of spits and all kinds of bodily fluids that, you know what I mean? You just clean this, clean yourself. No telly or nothing like that. You're in a punishment lot. You got to fuck all. So I cleaned this cell up, took all the paper out the fucking malls and all that took me ages, right? And I was asleep at about two in the morning and I was like, I could have sat right in my fucking, I think someone was on my noodles. Yeah. So I fucked that and sat right across my face. I put the lights and I got fucking cockroaches everywhere all over me in my fucking food. I was like, fuck sake. Now I don't realize why the fucking bog roll was in the side of spending next there. And I put in all the fucking bog roll back in the gaps in the wall, stopping from coming through. But yeah, it was horrible. It was like fucking, they kept coming to me every couple of weeks. I was in there for six weeks on the block. But every week the governor would come and say, oh, you shouldn't be down here. Because I was a serving police officer still. And I think they were worried. I said, look, why don't you go in the VP? I said, I'm not going on. So I ended up, I collected a load of cockroaches. And you know, the IGs are independent advisers of these people that come around and like, go, oh, you're all right. There's prison. There's this, you know, like from outside the community and all the rest of it. So I kept saying to this governor, if you don't leave me alone, keep asking me to go to nonsense. I'm going to want to see these people and show them all the fucking cockroaches that you've got running around in here. And the rats that are running past my window. So, you know, I had no problem with them. Stay there. Stay there. So I rode it out for fucking six weeks in the block. And then I managed to get bam. So what did you have a gambling addiction? Well, they, I said, I had a gambling addiction. I'm not going to use that as a fucking excuse. Do you know what I mean? It was, it was a factor, a contributing factor, as I see it, in my downfall. Yeah. But unfortunately, what happened was, because I was dealing with so much money, I lost the sense, the value of money. And, and so, you know, if you had 100,000 pounds on this table now and I took half of it away, you think, fuck me, I've lost half of the money. But if it's on the screen, you don't, it doesn't register that you're losing that kind of money. And I just went into this mode and the amount of money, because what, what I looked at, it wouldn't be wrong. I thought, fuck, I've had this nice life, you know, and I've got to let my family down. I'm going to lose everything. I've got, you know, what am I going to do? And I, instead of just dealing with that situation, head on, I went the wrong way. And I tried to gamble my way out of that situation with other people's money. How much did you lose? Three million pound of other people's money and two million a month, so about five mil. You know, and it's, it's something that it's a bit of pill I have to swallow every fucking day when I wake up and realize that used to be well respected. I was, you know, people say, oh, he's probably a wanker for what he's done in his job. But I was, you know, I, I did, I did a lot of good things in the police. And I've done, you know, bad things, as I've said. But I turned into this now sit you bent for the job and then bent for yourself. And I turned bent for myself and you know, and I corrupted other police officers. I mean, I fucking know when we had the, the, the syndicate, I was sending hundreds of thousands of pans in police cars to different police stations to pay out police officers. In fact, it was up and down the country. I'm in Scotland at the time. If it was police Scotland on it, that was the false, you know, people up there all the way down Greater Manchester. So I was sending people out gun up to Barramore with loads of money on them to weigh them off for their monthly quarterly earnings. They were getting off me. It was, it turned into a big fucking pyramid scheme, you know, a Ponzi scheme. Not intention. I never know what that was at the time. I was finding people putting money on and getting it out and then every couple of months. I was sending money hundreds of thousands of pans in police officers camps. They were drawing it out and I was throwing it across in armed police cars with the blue lights flashing to get across town to get to the fucking other neck. Do you ever remember the Hart scheme? Yeah. People used to put a grand in there. Once you move down, you get eight grand at the end. That came into Robbertecht at the time. And the individuals that run that, the police officers, asked me because at the time I was the money God, you know, driving up said in fucking seriously expensive cars and going on ass holidays. It was all my money at the time. I mean, then obviously they come up to me. Oh, do you want to pump this? Tell the boys because I listened to you. And I looked enough. I was a bit pants. I put a few quid in myself and said, well, take no wet tits up. And the individuals, the officers that were involved in that, we basically, one of them got taken off, taken off the unit, moved to Windsor overnight because they found out there was a plot to smash the fuck out of him, which there was, but other old bill were going to beat the shit out of him because they'd lost about 80 or 90 grand in total. So what was the couples then just putting money into your work? They were putting this heart in the hearts and it just went bandy. And so they made money. The two Rob Cops who... The ones at the start would have made the dough. Yeah, they made the dough. We got it in Glasgow. Yeah. I mean, that's it. But you know what? At the end of the day, they didn't fuck up as bad as I did, you know. But I always, one of these people would, I say, if you did shit out, you better be prepared to take it. So, you know, I've said what I've done in the job and then it's come back full circle and bit me in the fucking ass. When was that? That happened in 2000 and I think 2000 and fruit started going pear shaped. And then I got convicted in 2009. And I had a contract put out on me because I took some money. I didn't realise it was from serious criminals. Took some money and fucking them. It all went wrong. So they put a contract out on me. And I ended up nearly killing a son photographer because I thought he was a fucking hit man. And I had to go to court for that. And I put a gun in his head and it was just all wrong. I was just going down here on my mental state. I wasn't off my head. But my capacity to think straight had gone by this time. Do you know what I mean? You taking gear, booze? No, a drink, yeah. Never took gear, only steroids when I was in prison. But yeah, drinking a lot, drinking a lot, you know. My capacity to think straight was gone. Where did you leave the Royal Family for? Basically, because I was doing all this currency club. It was called, you know, all those cash. It was a bit, it was not, we shouldn't have been doing it at Royal Protection, you know. I was turning up in my Range Rover and I got a Black Range Rover, the two Range Rovers at a Porsche. And I was, I basically, I took leave from the job. But what happened was they put my file down the back of the, back at the fucking cupboard. So no one knew where I was or what the fuck I was doing. Everyone knew what I was doing. But if management turned up, they didn't know what was going on. So, because it got to the stage where I was, I was paying people to work my shift. It's paying people for underpaying the day. Coppers to come instead of work being off, come and work my shift so I can fuck off onto the markets. You know, and it was, we was using police, police resources. As I said, one time we, I had, I had to take some money. I was some fellow who's worth 100 million was involved with me. And he put money in and his contact to I know, I had to give him 50 grand. And it was, it was late. So I need to get this money up to him. So I met him in, I met him in a shopping centre in Bekton, Car Park. And I brought a police area car with me, BMW, two officers in it. And I gave this fellow the 50 grand and I said, just in case you get mugged on the way to London, they're going to follow you. So I used that. They got that car to follow him to Limehouse Link. And they've got another police car on the other side to escort him the rest of the way into, into the way he needed to go. You know, I mean, it's fucking mental. What were we doing? Fucking mental, do you know what I mean? Just to make sure that money won't go anywhere, but we needed to go. What was the most it went through? I used to have about 150, 200 grand on my floor putting in envelopes. I mean, the neighbours used to joke. So he's got more police cars on his drive on than the local Nick because it'd become people coming and taking envelopes for their money and all the rest of it. And it was, it just got fucking out of hand. Do you know what I mean? And we just lost. That's to try money. Money, money is the root of all evil. Do you know what I mean? In the stock markets, the devil's casino, it turned you for a half decent individual. Like I thought I was half decent, into a complete fucking slimeball. That's enough being a gambler. I've done it for over 20 years. I once lost £80,000 on online fucking roulette. Easy done. In my night, I was pissed. I was doing property. If I'd just stuck to property, I would have been all right. It's agreed to, isn't it? That's something, you can say agreed because no matter how much you want to go straight back. It starts off as ambition, right? Then it turns to obsession. Then it turns to greed and then ultimately addiction. That's the way I sort of processed what happened to me. And I still, as I say, I've got no one else to blame but my fucking self. And prison probably saved my life because going to prison as a police officer, that was the first occasion when I went to prison at Pentonville. So I learnt a lot, you know what I mean? How to survive. There was no way I was ever going on a fucking nonsense win. No fucking way. If I'm going to get leveled out so bad, how can I look at my children in the eye when I've had to mix with them fucking scumbags? And as I've already described, what I did in my time as a police officer to some of these individuals when I had the opportunity. So how am I then going to fucking go from that to live with these people just to protect myself? So when I got convicted at court and they sent me down, I got put down in the cells. I was like, fuck's sake. And because what I did to get through the court case, I had a bottle of Sprite but I was filling out with fucking Mark Wine every day. So I was sitting there listening to this because it was tough listening to people. And you've let them down and what you've done. And it was killing me inside. But I was in denial. I was going, fuck off, I didn't do that. I was in denial. Yes, I did everything. I did it. You know, I turned into a monster. I look back now and I think, fucking hell. Who the fuck was that? But I was in court when it was in the papers every day. You know, my wife was in the dock with me for money laundering. And she had fuck all to do with it. She had nothing to do with whatsoever. I had more people, police officers and civilians running like laundry money. My wife didn't do anything. Do you know what? I mean, they bust my balls and said, listen, go quietly and we'll let your wife go. That's what they said to me. They fucking tried to blackmail me. That's why the Prince Andrew stuff come out because I was so angry that I thought, you know what, fucking have some of that. You want to fight dirty, take the gloves off, let's go. You know, I've got plenty of information. You know, and I said to him, oh, he's fucking trying to get his colleagues into it. I'm not a snitch. I'm not a grass. Do you know what I mean? There's colleagues that are still in the police and they're at senior officers that are there because I've kept my gob shut. At the end of the day, the officers that gave evidence against me were wounded. But I turned on them and I started saying things back. And I shouldn't, you know what I mean? Because I was in denial. Because if you believe, say, long enough, you know, I lie long enough, it's true all of a sudden, isn't it? And I'm lying about, oh, I didn't do this. I didn't do it. Fuck them. What about you? Did this, that and the others? I should have just gone, you know what? And anyway, so I got guilty. My wife got off halfway through because I realised there was nothing. Well, why is my wife here? Why? I got sent down and I was in a cell with a fellow, John, who's just got done for £10 million VAT fraud. And if anyone knows, when you get done for VAT, you're going to get a shaft in. You know what I mean? And he got a six and he was such a nice bloke. But unfortunately, he's crossed the Batman, aren't he? And anyway, and there was another fellow, that big bloke who said, a pretty safe from Hertfordshire. And he was a lump. What is that? Oh, you forgot. Oh, fuck. He's a corruption. Yes. But then I joined the job to be corrupt. I was like, you wanker. I said, I thought, ah, is anyone thinking, right, you're my wingman now, aren't you? We've got to work together. I said, listen, when we go to the big ass, you need to switch on like, because it's going to come thick and fast. All right. So he's going, what do you mean? Is this, you know, what he did was, he was that archetypical bent copper. I told you about bent for self, from the off. And he was going around nicking, nicking money when he was doing drugs, right? He was putting four grand in his pocket. All right. And he goes to me. Yeah. I said, how'd you get fucking lifted then? He goes on and wankers, anti-corruption. He said, they're on me. I knew they're on me. And I did this raid. And he goes, there was money. And I knew, I said, I knew they're on me, but I still took some money. Anyway, fuck it. I was like, you're off, you're off king. Yeah. I was just fucking mad. He goes, yeah. And I was, I was giving information to this drug dealer. And he was doing, he was going robbing these people when I was giving up the fucking gear and the money. He goes, I knew they were following me. He said, I had his number on a secret box. He goes, and I thought, shit. I said, he's pulled over. He said, I'm going to go and, I said, I went to go on this offer license, but I quickly threw the secret box in the fucking bin. Yeah. Because that was the connection. He goes, and when I've come out, got my car, went home. I was looking, oh, nothing, nothing. Four and a six o'clock anyone. I've gone straight through his door, buff, with a big red key. And I'm next in, talking back to PlayStation. He goes, and then I've got the secret box out. Because we found that in the fucking, your glove box of your car, mate. What you got to say about that? He went, you fucking never found that in the glove box. It was in the bin. That was in your glove box, mate. Fucking fitted him right up. But I said to you, five and five. It was guilty anyway. It was guilty as fuck. So they fitted him up. He was like, then dirty bastards. I said, I said, what do you want to bet? Dirty bastards. What we've done? I said, so anyway, we get put on the bus to Wandsworth. And bearing in mind, I've been like guilty verdicts. Now I'm fucking, I swiftly be strapped. I didn't get bowed for reports or anything like that. No, because I fucked the judge right off. You know, I'll terrorise them. I'll be honest with you, because I've been drinking this wine every day and just fucking gobbling off to the CPS. And the anti-corruption muppets, it was set next to where I kept leaning. I've gone, oh, my God. Like, I was abusing them, sucked rotten. And I mean, to be fair, they were doing their job. I understand that. Do you know what I mean? But I was in that, you know, I was off cake. At last. I was lost. Yeah, I was gone. And so we get put on the bus to Wandsworth. It's all in the papers. It's on the nose, roll, cops, fucking been, you know, knotted off with a six or whatever. In fact, I didn't get the fucking six then. I got, I got reminded straight away. So anyway, me and, me and the laughing boy, this corrupt fuckwit from Hertfordshire and this John were on the bus and we go to Wandsworth. They debuss everyone else off, except for me and, me and matey boy. Because we did a two hour bill, wouldn't we? So, they get us out. They go, it's common use. So they've cleared everyone else out. Now it's that time. Fuck made them. It was like a bus, busman's convention. It was about 20 screws in. They all come to see the bad, bad cops. And they've, we've walked in. One of them's gone behind the counter. Which one of you is his page when I am? He goes, I'll take your gun on the road. And I went, fuck off. I said, I was, I was pissed. I've been drinking white. I said, you can fuck right off. He goes, oh, you're a cocky one. And you went, yeah, I fucking am. And they were laughing at me. And they thought I was a wanker. And I probably was. So I said, no, I'm not going on the road. Neither is he. And I looked around at him. And he just, I said, just fucking stay with me. And then we got put on a reception wing. And as I walked through, fucking hell. They were going, you pick, can't you fucking monkey? You're dead. And all this fucking. And that was that one. Actually, I don't know if that was not reception. That was when I went to the thing. But anyway, in reception, we've gone ourselves right. And now he's starting to get shook, this big, big fella. He's thinking, fucking hell. Because now he's in jail. Luckily, I said, luckily, I've already had a bit of a turn out. So I knew what the code was. He's going, fucking hell. He goes, what are we going to do? I said, right, break your fucking razor right now. He goes, what? I said, break your fucking razor up. Get that, get that blade and start carving the bottom of your fucking toothbrush. Asap. That was what I said, you're going to need something. Because if it goes off in him, we're dead. So I just fucking started sharpening up my fucking bottom of my toothbrush big time. I said, get that fucking kettle on. Get that sugar. Leave it next to the fucking kettle. He's going, what are you on about? I said, mate, at the time I was doing that, then I was making a wedge for the door, a newspaper, soaking it up and making like a V shape to put it under the fucking door, right? Because what you want to do is, if someone's going to come through your door, you want something there. Because you're not allowed to have wedges and all that screws. But you make out a paper and I'll put it under the door. Just say enough so you can be like that, yeah? So I'm thinking, if some fucker's coming through that door, they're only going to be able to do that. By that time, sugar in the kettle, bosh, have that. Because I'm in survival mode now. I'm fucking whatever street-wise situation I've got. It's in here now, I'm fucked. And he's starting to realise the gravity of the fucking situation, do you know what I mean? It was all big on the streets, lifting drug dealers money. It was a big, big lump and he thought it was a geezer and I'm in the old bill on all this fucking bollocks, yeah? Now he's realising you're not in the old bill anymore. You're in jail. And the most hated people in jail were pedophiles, grasses and old bill. And he's like, fuck me. He was starting to wither. Do you know what I mean? But I think, listen, I need this cunt to watch my back. So I can't have him go in pear shapes on me. So anyway, as we're sitting there, the telly comes on. It was on the BBC nose, fucking me. Oh, I can't, I'm thinking, fuck sake, could it get any worse? Right? And so the next day we get put, was it a week? I can't remember a few days anyway. We get put on the fucking, the wing we're going to, A wing, B wing, whatever it was. But as I've walked through it, they're on me, aren't they? They're going, you fucking cunt, you're dead, you fucking slag cunt. All right, fucking pig cunt. And all that. I was like, fuck, should we walk you through? Fuck sake, I've really done it this time. He's behind me, but I don't send anything to him because they didn't know he was old bill. They only knew I was old bill because I'm on the fucking telly. I'm in the papers. Do you know what I mean? And so that was his sort of, that was his sort of safe thing, right? So he goes in the fucking through into the wing, like everyone's looking at it. It's like, shit, it's kind of come at any, you know what I mean? At any angle, I've got my fucking thing ready to go. Or did I make another one? I can't remember. But anyway, I had it. I had one. And so we got put in a cell and got the kettle ready. So get that fucking kettle ready, go and make the fucking wedge, blah, blah, blah. I was put under the door and then the screw come up and goes, oh, he pays, come here. He goes in, he goes, all good. It was a fucking bench screw, wasn't it? Straight over to me like that. Because anything, you need to come and see me. Yeah, I said, listen, I need to get a blunt, I need to speak to my missus. They said, come out, I'll take you upstairs, you need my phone. Because I didn't have any pin credit. Anything, you know, just to get me food and stuff like that. And so he looked after me, but he's going like, you watch your back, man, because they're all talking, they're all talking in here. It's like, yeah, sweet, sweet, sweet. And so we, again, the canteen situation, fuck's sake. So I said to him, right, listen, you can't hide in the cell, you've got to get out there or back. Because if you're hiding yourself, this weakness, mate, you're going to get fucked. They don't know you, right? They don't know me. So he's like, oh, mate, it's starting to shake. And I said, right, we come back, we do a lot of push-ups, get the adrenaline out of your system, we smash the push-ups out, right? And he's going, oh, mate. So we've gone to the canteen to get our food. Everyone's looking, everyone's fucking on it. There's this, there's this, can't there, there's this, can't there. So I'm getting the food, and then one of these geese just goes to me, ain't I like the fucking place canteen, is it, mate? Slops my fucking food. And I'm like, listen, you can't. I have to do it. What am I going to do? I'm either going to wither and die, or I'm going to front it out and get a kick in. You know what I mean? Not worse. So I said, to me, you fucking talking to your cunt. I said, come around here and say that to me, you fucking prick. I've had to. I mean, I wasn't, I wasn't in the, you know, I wasn't being an ard man. I was, I wasn't even frank, because I was so fucked off me at, at me at, I didn't know what I was, my emotions. And the screws just looked the other way and fucking walked away. I thought, you wankers, because obviously I've been a cocky cunt downstairs and when I got booked in, so they thought, go on, can't have that. So anyway, it all went quiet. It all just went fucking quiet on a look round and there's like 20 people looking at me, and I'm like, oh, fuck. Anyway, the geezer said to me, he goes, all right, calm down, calm fucking down. I'm like, no, you fucking calm down. Anyway, I walked back to myself. By this time, mate, your boy's having a heart attack. He's going fucking off to get the wedge, mate, they're coming. They're coming. All right, and he's shaking, he's fucking, I'm thinking, there's a big cunt. He's got 16 stones like that. And he's just turned into a complete fucking jelly. All right. So we're ready. We're ready now. Anyway, this fellow right around, who's come to the door, goes, hey, brother, I said, yeah, what's up? He goes, listen, apologies for that. You know, fair play to you. You know, you've got, you know, fair play. So he put his hand through the gap and he, I'm thinking, I've got my shiv ready to go. And I'm thinking he's by war, but he wasn't in a position. He wasn't going to do it. He was a melt. Do you know what I mean? He wasn't going to get the water ready. I'm thinking, do I shake the geezer's hand or do I upset him? Or what do I do? In a typical fucking gamble, I've got to fuck it. Get in for a penny for a pound. So I've shook his hand and it was all good because I'm really, I was thinking, and it was all good. So I'm like, okay, fucking survive that little situation. I didn't realise this fellow is about six of them. No room for serious armed robberies. He's like, you know, we're seriously naughty people. And I couldn't have killed me, right? Because I wasn't mentally, I was in survival mode. And like I said, they're probably a bit off key as well. And then we went out into the yard and I said, mate, you can't go out there on you. I said, listen, if we don't fucking go out there, it's going to be 10 times worse. I said, like I said, they don't know the fuck you are. It's all on me. So he's going, oh, you sure? Well, we've got no choice. So I've gone out into the yard. John knew that, I feel like I said with the tax thing, he come with us. And then we're walking around because you walk around in a circle, didn't you? The only time anyone crosses the yard is if someone's getting to get a clump. And these four big blackfellas come marching across towards me. I was like, oh, fuck, here it is. This is where it's going to go fast. I said to it, I went to say to this fucking idiot, go and you walk ahead of me. He'd already walked off. He'd fucked off and left me. Shake bag. Right. Whereas John, a blessing, he couldn't punch his way out of a wet paper bag. So now I stay with you, Paul. I stay with you. I'm like, I'm shaking now. I know it's coming off. So I'm there ready to go bang. I'm like, yo, yo, you're that, you're that copper of the Italian. I went, yeah. Because did you know the coin? I went, yeah, it went, fucking hell. And I started shaking my head. Right. I was like, really? I couldn't believe it. They were like, oh, you know, you know the coin? And I was like, yeah, yeah. So I started chatting shit about the coin, like for fucking like rapid, rapid. Because what it was, they've seen the mansion and cars, the BBC have built me up millions of pounds on this. So I wasn't sort of like, I'm not disrespect, but I wasn't a numpsy beat copper. Do you know what I mean? I'll come across as a big fish on the nose and the rest of it. And obviously they're called the celebrity. You know, it's like, if you pick me in jail. So I was like, oh, they didn't really register. Like I'm a dirty pig in other people's eyes. I'm, oh, you know, it's I started chatting about the queen and I was good as gold, right? So I got a link there. And then anyway, silly bullets comes back around and go back to the cell. And I said to him, do you know what, mate? I think I'm going to, I think the best thing for me to do for your safety is I'm going to fucking move selves. I said, because you could get weighed in. He goes, oh, would you? I thought you can't. Do you know what I mean? He goes, oh, would you move? Oh, thanks, mate. It's like, really? No lawyer whatsoever. And I thought, oh, you wanker. So I fucked off outright. And I went in with John, bunked him with John. And I was chatting to these armed robbers and all the rest of it. And I was starting to move around, but be seen but not heard. Do you know what I mean? Just, just, you can't hide in yourself, especially you're like me. You're going to be a fucking target, mate. You've got to come at them and at least show that you've got something about you. I could have got weighed in at any time. I'm not saying I'm marched around the prison guy. Look at me. I'm saying that's what you got at those fucking standard in position, in my position. And he lasted a fucking day this wanker and went on the roll. They moved the nutcase in his cell with him. He was there for GBH times two or whatever the fuck it was. And he withered and died and fucked off on the roll this cunt. And all that did was give me more CODOS because people were coming up to me saying, do you know what, mate? Shit, man, you've got some bowls on you. But before that happened, what the reason he went, we got a screw come up, and he goes, yeah, you've got a solicitor. A solicitor's come to see you and him. I said, fucking solicitor, what are you on about? No good to me now, I'm gone. I said, no, they're up there. So I went up there and this goes on and there's two of them in there. And they've met place prison intelligence. And he said to me, all right, mate, out of paperwork with them, go and listen, we've received credible intelligence that your life is in serious danger. And we need to move you on the roll. I said, fucking, I've got to go through this again. I said, listen, it is what it is. I said, use two, the pair of them put together have probably not even got as much service as I had. I said, you're standing there telling me I'm old school. I said, listen, I've done what I've done. I'm not going on the roll with sex cases. I'm going to take my chances. And they said, what? I was fucking mad. And I said, by the way, I'm out there as well. He's doing the same. He's not going on the roll. I think it was an Osborne warning they gave me, I hadn't before. So I signed it, signed my life away and went fucked off back to the way he came with me. And then after that, he fucking, I went out. I thought, I'm going to have to leave the cell. That's what happened then, because I remember now. So I thought, if I'm in danger, fucking, let's just take it. It's, can'ts no good to me. He's not going to do anything. He's not going to help me. So, and then he, like I said, he folded and that helped me. And then when you're, when you're old, being in prison, you're a fucking liability. You need to try and make yourself an asset. And the way I did it was I was, I was helping people with illegal paperwork and people would come read or write. I was trying to open, write letters home and stuff like that. Do you know what I mean? Because once you start helping people, and then I realized I started, started, I'm a prisoner there. These are my people. Yeah. I'm not old bill. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm an inmate. And then I realized that a lot of these people never had any choices or chances in life. I did. And I fucked it up the wall. So it made me sort of humbled to a degree to think, I know you've done XYZ, but do you know what? You come from an environment, you never had a fucking chance. I had loads of chances and I blew them all. And then that's why my mind started to work there. You know what? I've got to just, just do what I'm doing and, and, and understand and accept what I've done. Because if you never accept the shit you've done, you're never going to get past it. You know what I mean? And, and that's what I tried to do. And I thought, you know what, when I get out of jail, I'm never going to tell, tell, tell bollocks again. I'm just tell it straight. If I please or offend people, it is what it is. Just got to be true to yourself. Yeah. So a kid tour was karate, karate's champion. Yeah. To batter and nonces. Yeah. To then work it with the royal family. Millionaire. Multi-millionaire. Making money to then fucking over the place, to then in the jail, gambling addict. Yeah. Yeah. It's not, like I say, like, it's a very fascinating story. Paul, like, it's, it's your life and you're not the only one who's fucked up, made plenty of mistakes. So see, did you survive that? Prison sentence okay for a copper? Yeah. Or was there any other scares along the way? I was, I was, I was lucky because I, I made, I made friends with people. As I said to you, I helped, I tried to help people when I ended up in the fucking, I don't know, an office doing rottles for people, you know, home leaves. You know, and we all know the most important thing for a person is to get the fuck out of the family and your phone credit. Don't fuck with people's phone credit because that's when they're going to kick off. And, you know, stuff like you can't attain, isn't it? You know what I mean? And rottles, so I worked in an office where I was helping people with their home leaves and speaking the eyes of me in the prison and all the rest of it to get people out, to get people on. So that gives me, you know, more, more respect if you want to call it that. People started to forget what my job was. Do you know what I mean? I started to accept me as a person and the same with me where I used to catch these people. Now I'm, I'm living with them. Do you know what I mean? And so it sort of changed to where I, I started getting to understand more about how people turn to crime and what happened before you're in a place. It's them and us and it's you and us. It's that's how it is. I'm not really interested in your background story. We're interested in what you've done there. But then when you start to, as I say, listen to the people, you think, fucking hell, you never had a chance and you're a clever person. You know, so a lot of clever people in there art that could do, I remember a boy and he said he'd been abused. You know, and then he turned to drugs and ended up doing crime and he just couldn't hack it. And it was, it was an artist. He painted a Chelsea mural in his cell and they go over to the camera and I thought it was a new guy. And one day he goes down, paint over that please mate. He made him fucking paint over it. You think, but he's just done that. It was mentally stimulating for this boy. You know, he goes, you're not allowed to paint whatever, but why would you just do that? Just put fucking posters over it when he comes around next to it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. What's the worst thing you've seen in prison for police officer? I've seen people shanked up. I was talking to one fellow one day and he seemed a normal person and someone walked past him through another gang on road. And he goes to pull two seconds mate, pulled out a shank and started stabbing the fuck out of this guy. And I was like, fuck. Screwed a female. Screwed the other way. She didn't want to look. And he fucked off, run off. I was out of there myself, but he got put on the block for a fucking month or so. And he came back, no charges, no nothing. I see someone get slashed open with the fucking top of a tunicine. Just sheer violence. I mean, someone got jugged in there. They suspected sex case. Someone getting glass of a coffee mug and half his eye like that was hanging off. It's brutal. You know, it's fucking brutal. That's the certain places. Who's Lee Fleek now? Yeah. I'm in a better place. You know, every morning I still wake up with a bit of, you know, it's a bit of a swallow. What's happened to me? But I'm doing all right. You know, I still think about the mistakes or the bad decisions I made, not mistakes. But the way I see it, right, I, you know, I started off with this and if you're telling you, I did this in the place then, I bet sex case and all that. And certain principles don't touch police officer nor the rest of it. You know, some people, that's wrong. That's fine. That's your opinion. At the time, I thought it was right things to do, protect my colleagues, protect the public from scumbags like these sort of individuals, give them a bit of fucking payback, you know, all right, vigilante, thugging, whatever you want to call it. But that's, I can't change what I've done. And I don't regret some of the things I've done. But going into prison and as a police officer, you're stripped of everything. Your dignity, your fucking respect because you're now, you're now the lowest of the low, aren't you? If you're a bank cop or you're fucked up, you know, and now you're going where you deserve to be. And I'm a firm believer that if you dish it out like I said to you, be prepared to take it. Don't stand in the dock and start fucking crying too late. You've got to go man up now and get into the big ass and survive. If you put that uniform on, you've got to act appropriately, didn't you? And if you don't, if you let the side down in any way shape or form, you've got to pay the consequences. But in saying that, if you're a sex case and announcing a job, go fuck yourself. I hope you get kettleed when you get put in jail. Right, that's the first thing. The second thing is if you've been corrupt and you've done stupidness or whatever else, you've got a small chance, a small window of opportunity if you've got a prison to claw that, some of that respect back and that dignity back and that's never going the fucking rule with a sex case and annances. That's your only, that's your, it's a way to earn your colors to get back to some kind of normality. Do not go on the rule. It's as simple as that. I always said to people, a couple of people that have, that have been in the shit. So listen, shave your fucking hair off, put some weight on, because you're going to lose weight when you go in there. And if it comes on top, you're going to have to smash your cell up, or bang a screw out and get put on the fucking block. Do not go on the rule, because once you do that, you've solved out the last ounce of dignity that you've got. What's the biggest regret you have being a Royal Cop? Doing the, doing the fraud. Do it, you know, letting my colleagues down and my friends down and, you know. Do you ever regret not seeing anything? Prince Andrew being cheeky. Do you know what's the countless times we've wanted to tell him to fuck off? I mean, a colleague of mine lost the plot when he's gone, gave him a clump. But what, what, what, what was going to happen since we get jammed at the job, kicked the important division, whatever else, if we'd have said anything back to him. You know, yeah. It would have been, you'd have said it and you'd have been a hero for five minutes, but then where are you going to be? Yeah, you can't say things. You ended up in the jail anyway. I ended up in the fucking jail anyway, yeah. I did, I ended up in the clinic anyway. So fuck it. Where do you go for a future poll? Right, so I'm not one, I don't want to be one of these people that are bouncing around the internet doing all these fucking interviews. I'm doing a few. I promised you I'd do yours two years ago, do you know what I mean? And I keep my word. And again, on road, all you've got is your word. If you've got nothing else, you've got your word. Yeah, fuck all. Yeah, you've got fuck all. That's the only thing you've got. And so I've done some TV stuff. I'm looking at doing, I've got some other TV stuff. I'm looking at trying to come away from Prince Andrew. You know what I mean? I've said what I've said. I don't want to be a broken fucking record at the end of the day. People can even believe me or disbelieve me. I've been completely honest with you. I read comments, they don't affect me. Yeah, I've been through jail. Yeah, I've been in ACAT. You know what I mean? I've been through all the prison system. So people's comments on internet, I say to people out there, if you're on Instagram, whatever you're on, don't take to heart people's comments. They're fuck all. They're spineless wankers who want to abuse your whatever else. They're just fucking spineless. You know, I accept some of the comments that I've put to me because I've got what I've done, I've done. So I have to go have that sort of people calling me a con man and a fucking liar and a thief and all the rest of it. I was a con man. I was a liar. I was a thief, but I'm not fucking now. It was a period of time I went through when I was all those things and worse. And I've come out the other end. Yeah, I understand what I've done. You know, I'm not proud of it. You know, I've got to live for that for the rest of my life. But at the end of the fucking day, I'm moving forward being honest and everything that I've said about Prince Andrew is the truth. You know, my colleagues are too frightened to come forward. Yeah. So I'm the math piece for the silent majority if that's what it is. I'm more than happy to have your colleagues on if they were to say to come forward. Yeah. I mean, do you know what? There's a cure. People are saying the same thing including news readers that are on the telly. I'll speak to, you know, there's people I speak to in the media that covertly slag off Prince Andrew but won't do it overtly because I lose their fucking jobs. It's not just Prince Andrew. It's people working on breakfast shows. It's people who's working big, big fucking television shows that are still active today. It's okay out in the people who's dead but it's the ones that are still alive who are naughty. Yeah. I mean, my, as I say, at the end of the day, I'm only interested in the protection and sort of making sure survivors are okay. Do you know what I mean? These individuals need locking up simple as I told you that before they shouldn't be walking on walking on the cracks of the pavement. They should be fucking in jail. You know? We should concentrate on the victims of domestic violence, the children, women that have been raped. I mean, these fucking pairs of scumbags, cousins and the other fella, you know, it's about bringing back the death penalty. There's two ideal fucking candidates. Do you know what I mean? And the police, unfortunately, you know, even if 1% of the men are corrupt, that's still 300 officers, is it? Or whatever it is. You know, it's a lot of police officers that are going to go through the system there. And it's not a good look for them. Just before we finish up, did you ever come across anybody in prison that you'd put in prison? I fucking did. No way. Yeah, I did. Finally, you should mention that. Yeah, I got to Stamford Hill and, like, Decat facility where I'm allowed to have home visits and all the rest of it. And when I was at Merrilebone, this homeless fella had murdered two other homeless people, like, nasty, stabbed them up and cut their throats when they were asleep, I think. And anyway, we got a call on the radio one night, urgent assistance, such and such. Jamie, whatever his name was, has been seen in Soho, wherever we went, Great Street, whatever the fuck it was. Went down there and there's two coppers wrestling with this fucking thing, this animal. So we jumped out. It was a massive fight. It was great. It was fucking mad. Imagine he's killed to the pet where he doesn't give a fuck. And he took a righteous clump because we had to fucking subdue him. Do you know what I mean? He took a proper clump just to get him in cuffs and it was a dangerous individual. And he went and swifted him off. He got done for murder, locked up 15 years later. He's walked past me in the fucking land, isn't he? But he wouldn't have remembered me anyway. I was thinking, I shall know that guy, is that? He was on his last few years. He'd done it 15, 15 years. He'd done it more, whatever he'd done. And there he was coming out, getting ready to come out. But he was still off, okay? He was still up, weren't he right? I was thinking, fuck you now. That's when you realise. I was in there with Lords as well, a couple of Lords. And this is what fucks me off, right? So, I'm in there with these two Lords and an MP for expenses, yeah? And one of them says to me, they've only been in fucking five minutes. I'm sitting in my office, didn't involve the rottles, all the home moves. People have come in to offer 10-year stretches, 15-year stretches. They want to go home and sit in a fucking family. This tits only been in fucking two days. He's coming up to me and going, excuse me, I need a day out. I said, fucking what? You've only just been locked up. And he goes, yeah. What it is, my man on my farm is going away and I need to go home. I've got really very rare chickens or pigs or something because I need to go and feed them. And a fellow I was sitting next to, he was in for, where he was in for. He goes, okay, let me explain to you. We don't give a fuck about you. All your fucking chickens, and they're fucked off. I said, oh, oh, oh, oh. All right, so he's fucked off. Then the other one's going, oh. He goes to talk to him and he was, I'm not going to identify him, but he was, he was a, he used to be a judge and all the rest of it. It was, you know, whatever else. But so this is the attitude of these fucking people. And he's going, yeah, when I get out, I think I'm going to write a book. I said, I'm not being funny. You've only done fucking five minutes in jail. You haven't even put a dent in your fucking pillow. What the fuck are you going to write about? All right. He's, oh, oh, oh. So I go out to fucking no money, no fucking job. Yeah. He goes out to 300, they go back out to 350 pound a day in the house of laws. How the fuck does that work? Yeah. Then they're sitting there. They're obviously dishonourable. They're, you know, they're the same as me. You've committed a fraud. So you're untrustworthy. How the fuck are you sitting on, you know, passing laws? You know what I mean? How does that work? That they go straight back out into the house of laws. They're on 350 pound a day. That's just, this is the them and us situation, isn't it? Yeah. I'm in the gutter. Rightly so. You know, I've got to pick myself up, but they go back to a life of luxury, off the backs of the likes of us. It's a fucking mad. Well, listen, very interesting story. I've enjoyed this today. Like, would you like to finish up on anything? I'd just like to say, look, I said to James, I'm going to do this interview to highlight embrace Seavock child fixing as a crime. So if anything you've taken from this, don't fucking gamble. Don't do the stock market because it's just the devil's casino. Yeah. Don't, if anyone promises you something that doesn't seem realistic, it's probably a con. Do you know what I mean? Don't, don't get into that thing. And just please look at the charity. And if you can put some money towards them, it's a good, it's, you know, you'll be doing kids, you know, a favor and it will help them. As I say, they're affected indirectly or directly by crime. Overall, it's not a good thing for a child anyway. You know what I mean? So it'd be really nice if people enjoyed this video. I've been frank. I've kept nothing back. Like me, I hate me. Just please look at the charity. Fair play for that. I'll make sure I've done it. I'll leave the link in the description. Paul, listen. Thank you. For coming on, I think I've enjoyed that. It's an interesting conversation. There's been a bit of a briefing. I wish you nothing but best for the future, brother. Thank you, mate. Take care and God bless. Yeah, enjoy, mate, yeah.