 Hello everyone and welcome back to for the millions the weekly podcast all about upcoming a third-person mobas that we all might be Interested in this week. We got updates for all four of them over from ethereal fault and predecessor That kind of has a little bit to do with the fact that I didn't do the show last week. I'm sorry about that had some audio Issues but this week Um, we're gonna kind of skip the poll just save some time because we got a big topic to talk about what I'd be talking About the unreleased heroes the ones that we have a little bit of information about the ones that were supposed to be in Paragon and never were that is going to be our topic for discussion and joining. I'm your host the man goose I always almost damn near forget to mention that but also I should also mention if you want to come host the show Just let me know let me know in the comments below and you can uh, you can hook it up with us You don't have to have a webcam or anything just jump on and talk story about all these successors And it's uh, it's a good time, but joining me as sometimes is my friend and co-host jelly days. How you doing jelly? Joining you as sometimes I like it man. Yes, I like it. I am fantastic man Happy to be here and with us again. We've got Papa. Welcome back. Happy to have you Lots of information but also not that much information at the same time like it's this weird mix of both That that's one thing I want to get into when we're talking about predecessor, but Yeah, okay Go ahead remind the people about your start with Paragon and everything about how you only play overpowered heroes Well on Sundays was a wukong No, so I started on Paragon when it first came to the PlayStation and the bail which I had to pay for a key So a lot of you people complaining that these games aren't free think about that Um Sort of of Kai then it just kind of like varied between Aurora Faye Wukong was my main and Seraph so, you know and Iggy wait wait I forgot about Iggy last time, you know We're especially when they buffed him and you could just like literally one show anyone or the whole team with his Dude take Iggy to take Iggy was a terror in legacy It was one of those things when Iggy came out I was just like yes like I love this and then he came out and was like well All right, let there are other better people than Iggy and Scorch, you know, and then they reworked him It's like oh no, he is the best now It was just fun and interesting character just over over Like he probably was the most broken at times like and then all the other characters He impacted the game the most from I remember and that was because his kit was unbalanceable He was either useless or broken and there was no in-between Yep, that a that a history of making kits like that Let's move on to the updates and everything let's start off with overprime just because they're first on my list this time They come up with a Trello, which I think is really nice to have this is about two weeks ago They came out with this so now you can go to their Trello and track Exactly what they're working on what the status of it is what their future plans are and it's just a Really good way to keep the community updated without having to make constant Posts through their discord or whatever just a one-stop shop for everything you need to know about overprime pretty cool stuff I really like it. I'm just gonna run through everything real quick and then we'll talk about all of it They also released their infographic from the CBT. They had 57,000 players played the game during the close beta test 14% were European 64% were Asian and 19% were from America. They didn't say North America They just said America There were 20,000 games played one year of total play time So let's get into it starting out with jelly jelly What do you think about the the Trello the infographic all these players the 64% Asian? I mean so yeah the 64% Asian I think fits with everything that you and I've talked about in the past man goose is that their Eastern market is going to be much bigger than it ever is going to be here and With that it solidifies that we can have Potentially at least two of these successors exist being overprime in the East and then falter predecessor in the West and have both of those things coincide and live in harmony as For the Trello, I mean I can't help but say the little bit that this is probably influenced by Ethereal also releasing a roadmap of sorts and then suddenly overprime does it afterwards a little little weird, but okay But I think overall it's a good like you said It's a great thing to have for people to just get updates that can go reference it It doesn't require any kind of website changes for their for their part So it's theoretically easier for them to just go in and drag and drop something from one board to the other to Give those updates as often as possible The stats though are insane 57,000 players is an insane metric for their first weekend on Steam no less or on on a different platform that isn't just their third-party download 20,000 games a year of playtime over the course of whatever it was five days That's insane that like good for them Round of applause a hundred percent because that's huge numbers to hit for your first outing essentially. Yeah Yeah, big stuff. Okay. What do you think? To speaking on a 57,000 because you're saying five days I only got to play I think for two days I think all of you guys like streamers and partners and whoever and like your friends They got to play it So the fact is that they hit that much time or sorry the time they hit They was able to hit within that short space of time for the public He's crazy is what two to two baby two and a half days because the timings are so weird especially in like Europe Like that's just crazy and then with the Trello thing It's just I didn't really know what it was until my goose explained it to me Like it was completely above my pay grade I have a lot of friends who are big Paragon fans, but they're not PC people They have discord but if I asked you the last time they use discord Which is probably like two years ago when I forced them to use it like just so we Maybe longer ps3 days when you know, you didn't have PlayStation Party chat. Yeah And now there's a website I can literally just they wouldn't know about Paragon They don't I don't want to write like loads of messages. I can just send them the link And you know, they can just check up on it and I think this is a really good show. Yeah, yeah Even if he has copied other people's ideas I didn't go that far I didn't say that Yeah, absolutely I Can't wait to see what happens there next time because that was that was hitting those numbers with relatively little true marketing, right? They had their their cinematic on IGN which was huge But that didn't say that they're having an open weekend or an open test So the fact that they hit those numbers Without directly putting something out on IGN that said open test this weekend, right? Is really big because that's direct translation from that video into people discovering the game They're doing their own research to find the open weekend or whatever they were doing Potentially in Asia that we haven't seen. Yeah And I feel like there was very sorry. I'm gonna go not be my guess. You are the guest Thank you. I thought it was very smart with the few like the three days prior for streamers because then all of their followings are gonna see the game whether they liked Paragon or not There was a lot of streamers that I've never seen on Paragon But they were streaming the game and which shocked me. I was like, I don't know this person I'm maybe I only know a select few but They definitely brought in a lot of people that didn't play Paragon because when I was playing the game people's like I've never played them over before. I'm like, um, okay Good luck, buddy That's I mean, that's a huge point, right then in our little Paragon niche community, right? It feels like we know everybody we know the players, right? That if right mangoes his name gets thrown out the likelihood that a Paragon person goes like Oh, I know at least who mangoes is right is highly likely British Neburi all of those names It's a when you go into a story the twitch and look at all the streamers and you're like, I don't know 80% of these people That's a really good thing for them in that you're that's a new audience that you that may have been in the shadows may have Whatever but that have are Developing their own communities around that game. I know there were some Asian streamers that were having thousands upon thousands of viewers Watching them play over prime So, I know I'd never had a single problem getting a match and we were only I was only the 19% of the Games population for North America America America. Hey, that was a really good accent. Okay Take I'll take it because I'm British But that was a very very Texan America right there. I like that Well, let's move on from over prime talk about ethereal The only thing we've really gotten about ethereal recently was they're increasing the number of internal testers So hopefully that spells out good things for for the future for you guys Jelly, did you have anything else to update or is that it for you guys? That's the main thing is that we're because of a lot of those changes and updates and all those things that we're doing right now In these couple months that it's more important than ever to have us bring testers in to play the game And actually give us their feedback of what what's good. What's bad otherwise? So it's trying to expand that roster as much as we can to get that feedback out. Yeah Everything else has been pretty much Patreon posts which have been really cool. I wish I could talk about them, but Yeah, all right, cool, cool, cool, and okay, do you have anything to say about ethereal before we move on? Um, no, I'm just excited to play the game again like this. Oh, that's that. That's it I just can't wait to actually because I know how to play Leo. I can actually be her You can know how to press shift and fly now this is great What you got that down your solid Aliyah and Knowing when to engage with her are and when to use it to catch somebody that's a scoping. I Don't know either of those but I did like the mage The mage was really fun, but she seemed really OP noxious. Yeah, she can't she can be yeah Like somebody that can play her really well It's rough. It's rough Yeah, I'm not one of those players. I'm so Let's move on to fault Faults had quite a quite a bit going on they had our Their their item system is now available on the play fault comm website You no longer have to log into the game to take a look at their items and aspects and all that They also had an info infographic on their Valentine's Day event It was very support-centric and pointed out like who the top pick rate supports were who the top win rate supports were Because it was like a an assist sort of thing and they set a goal like if the community could get 50,000 assists amongst the entire community then they would get a heart avatar which people were able to unlock They had like over a hundred thousand assists, so they doubled that they also released It's like an Aztec sort of Mayan Decker skin, which is absolutely fucking amazing Pro I think their best skin that they've done yet. I mean that that's all Objective opinion what what your favorite skin is, but I think detail like Just how hard that skin was to make like is is probably it's it's probably their most detailed skin. It's really good They announced that the season zero perks are now gone. So I guess season zero is now officially done That doesn't mean you you lose everything that you got with the season zero perks But you no longer get that 10% discount in the store and then um, I just wanted to point out The recent steam reviews are mostly positive for fault. I never thought I would see that I mean the overall reviews are still mixed, which is better than negative but But the reason reviews are mostly positive, which is kind of cool to see from fault So Okay, what do you think about all this info coming out of out of fault? I Feel like force in this best places ever been I'm kind of annoyed about the season zero because I still don't feel like they lived up to you know What the road map they put out for us? Um, I Feel like the game feels amazing and I just feel like Where fault has come from and a lot of like shit that fall gets from a lot of people and a lot of the streamers during Overprime and I'm just a lot of the people like oh no, Fred this, Fred that Fault is doing very well like and I will confidently say that like I wouldn't be surprised if thought we'd be the ones to survive Because of what they're doing and how they're trying to interact however Valentine's Day supporting Feng Mao had a skin. That's very questionable Like I understand that's like your new character but Where was steel and did Rick did Richter get a skin? Richter got a skin Who did worse didn't get one with nabash Didn't get one either Yeah, I was all in sports except for steel and nabash and for some reason Feng Mao got one But not the game's in a great place. I have nothing else to really say on them. Yeah Jell, you got anything to say about fault? I do I'll start I'll start with my for lack of better way to put it negative more negative comments and then go to my positive stuff afterwards Yeah, I think them ending season zero with no Indication of anything was weird Like the ending those benefits to me feels like a they know that the people that bought the past that are getting the discount Are the ones buying their stuff? And so now they they're trying to get more money from those people because the discount is hurting their back. They're at their Can't think of the term now But hurting their profits. Mm-hmm. So which would make sense like I get it from a business perspective You're like who's the people buying the stuff the guys that are getting the discounts. Well, let's remove the discount So we get more money from them, right? So it's that that feeling I think it would have been way better if it said season zero is ending season one starts in two weeks Right where then it feels more like you're actually capping off something and to start something else Whereas they kind of just were like season one's coming Yay, let's be excited about that. So it just to me is kind of a weird Way to do that I the other slight thing you can't navigate to their item page on their website from the website You have to use the link they gave you I literally just went to try to do it and couldn't find the item page Really, I'm gonna do it. I literally just tried. It's not I couldn't find an option anywhere I'm gonna try to know game of learn Items Oh, it's under the learn tab. See, okay, I never would have clicked that to find the items I would have looked for an item tab. You would think that there would be game items That's what I was when I opened it. I was like, well, there's no item tab. Is it somewhere else? So there you go. It's under the learn tab everybody there man. Just figure it out for me But on the better side of things Completely agree with you that this Mayan Decker skin is the best thing that they've put out thus far, right? It is the most transformative skin. They've done for any of their any of the heroes by a long shot. Mm-hmm Thank you for getting Astro Gideon. That was actually a pretty good skin, too It's a good skin. I don't think it's on the same level as Maya Decker. My index is not Like they've actually made considerable additions to her Model with that skin and the the textures are great and it looks good So props to them for it. I hope we see more of more skins like that quality in the future And there's steam reviews being mostly positive recently. I think is a good trend for them In that they are going from from that mixed perspective to an definitely an upward swing for the moment Even despite some of the issues they've had recently with optimization and bugs and all that kind of stuff So, um, here's the question Don't Do you think that these games when they're bringing out new skins? They should market the skins beforehand or do you think they just leave it to be a surprise? Because I didn't even know the Decker skin was coming out And I just want to went on the game one day and I was like, oh, there's a new skin. Oh, yeah They actually I really didn't know they teased it on Twitter. I think Mm-hmm, but it was like the day before the skin came out. They tease it on Twitter I think it's one of the things where it's 50 50 if depending on the skin as well if it ties into For instance, we just had a Chinese New Year, right? If it ties into that Maybe you just wait till it happens and then the day of you drop the skins with the announcement that they exist at the Same time, but then otherwise you can introduce a skin a couple weeks prior or tease a skin or whatever it is Like as per Gideon was teased for a couple weeks before they actually showed it off officially So I think it's there's a a mix that you can do or their Valentine's Day skins Nobody knew those were coming but it's tied with an event at the same time So I think there's a 50 50 threshold to have there There's Valentine skins that Valentine's Day skins though. We're not that hard to make I'm not sure it didn't make three colors Yeah, yeah because that mesh already exists on the other Valentine's Day skins How'd you have to do like I did it myself and made skins for like some of the other heroes like myself really easily So I Don't know. I think they could have done Could have made more skins, but whatever whatever. I I guess there's going to be plenty more Valentine's Days to come so they'll They'll just keep doing it Couldn't do them all at once man. He's couldn't do them all at once I Think that's about it. All I got for fault that you guys have anything else. Nope. No, let's move on to predecessor We got a lot of small videos coming out of predecessor We got the Richter vid on you you on tiktok and YouTube shorts Most of these are coming out on both tiktok and YouTube shorts They got Kalari vid a thing now vid they got Narbash beaten on his drums They got several knocking somebody into the tower range where then Drongo jumps up in the air and alts them To for the kill a lot of cool little videos coming out of processor My problem though is there's nothing substantial like Tell me how the game's going like tell me what's been added to the game Tell me when the next time you're gonna have a test for the game is like it's cool to see especially after so long of not seeing predecessor and I hate to start complaining already after We went through such a dry spell with them of not getting information like it's I love seeing all these Videos coming out of them. I would just like to see something a bit more substantial And didn't we get a fey video as well? I Think we covered that before Okay, I wasn't a hundred But I completely agree with you like I will take information if this if you're gonna give information I'll take it right don't get me wrong, but you're right It's kind of very surface level and it's things that we already knew Right it's similar to their end-of-year post it was a recap of Things we already knew and so like Richter we didn't know Richter was officially in the game, but it was heavily teased in their announcement The fey they said was gonna be in the game. So we knew that Kalari. We already knew fang mal We already knew nabash. We already knew Sephiroth. We already knew so none of this is new information Necessarily it's again just kind of a rehash of information. We already knew or had a good idea about at the same time And it's given us visual examples of what it's gonna look kind of what it's gonna look like a game it'll at least look like Like the highest resolution of what a possible it probably probably won't look that great like for me It is possible for it to look that good if you have a good enough computer for it Maybe it will look like that for me. I don't know so we'll find out I'm looking at the trailers. Don't you think it looks kind of cartoonish like the pred gameplays because like I was watching the Kalari video and the minions are Compatible are you like Larry's like time? I Don't know. I've always felt the predecessor nailed their The aspect ratio better than any of the other games as far as making it feel like Paragon like the size like health Like how zoomed in your camera is and how the camera zooms out whenever you cast abilities I've always felt that predecessor nailed that way better than anybody else. So that I mean I Guess it's up to you whether you like that or not I think I think one of the things that's kind of starting to play in factor in now is with these other games being out like we've gotten used to Faults aspect ratio because we that's the only one we can really play and now when we look at it in predecessor Even though it's more similar to actual Paragon It still feels a little bit wrong because we've been playing fault for so long You know what I mean, which we predicted that would happen Long ass time ago. Yeah That's that's gonna be the end the endless hurdle that these games will have to leap is That the comparison of if I've been playing one and go to the other that one may feel bad Because I've been playing false or because I've been playing overprime or vice versa, right? And so it's how do you navigate that as a game when you have two others at least that are doing very similar things Did you feel like overprime and full felt like they did feel different, but did you feel like they felt like such a drastic jump though I Felt that there was a pretty drastic jump between fault and overprime Just overprime in general felt like just a huge leap in a very different direction Which I think is what they're going for and I think it's probably what's best for them It may not be what every Paragon rep what every pair of refugees looking for but I think it is absolutely The the direction so we should be taking overprime in and I'm happy that they're doing it and yet to me overprime Effectively separated itself from the other two in that it was a it felt like a completely different game despite having The same characters and very relatively the same kids Right where you can you can go into a game of overprime and go into a game of fault and feel like they're separate Whereas fault and predecessor you can feel the similarities more than you feel the differences Man, I'm really looking forward to another predecessor stress test though. I Can't wait to get my hands on it again. They're like I didn't get to play that last one and Their work is so impressive when whenever we're actually able to get our hands on it. I just Need to get my hands on it again Stop teasing me with all these little videos. Let me get my hands on it and play it But I think that's all I had for predecessor unless you guys had anything else No, nah, I got nothing else with Fred. Cool I didn't really promote the poll this week I didn't even look at the the newest numbers last week I will say that predecessor is what is back way way on top like they're back up to like 60% of the vote And I think it just took a little bit like took a couple weeks for All these updates that they've been giving the community with these videos of stuff to rekindle the community's faith And I made a studios, but it has happened. They're back there way way back on top like they were started They've never been on bottom. They've they've always been the top number one picked by the community But it's even more so now than it ever has been. I think that's about All I want to say about the poll It vote for this time I'll it resets every Friday the poll does like you don't need to wait for me to remind you that the poll is back Up and running like it auto resets, but man goose if the poll is if you don't tell me the polls up and running How am I supposed to know it's up and running? It goes in automatically doesn't I only listen to what you tell me does it work on phones now or it does work on phones now. Yeah Does indeed um So let's move on to our discussion topic, which is going to be a fun one It's the whole reason I brought pappa pappa pappa k back I've been talking to pappy plays too much lately It's the reason I brought pappa k back because He was a fun guest and I thought this would be a fun topic to discuss with him We're gonna be talking about the unreleased heroes that were the Paragon never gave us some of them The one we're gonna talk about first March seemed to be incredibly detailed and pretty much ready to go like they had a skin a win-da-go skin for March so What we're gonna do we're just gonna talk a little bit about where we think they may have been played what their abilities Might have been a little bit about their lore that sort of thing. So Okay, why don't you why don't you start us off talk about March? Um, I remembered I was looking at something on the you know the Paragon fandom wiki Mm-hmm, and I was actually there was I don't know what I don't know what strings are or like what that means But there was like gameplay cues on their friend with like a ground explosion mobility tool muck guys are A mark telegraph a primary project our explosion an ultimate dot damage And then a mark dot damage and then it also had an exposure stack and an immunity stack. So With movement speed, I'm gonna say I want to say mid laner like he's a man I think he's a mage, but I feel like it would have been a mage jungler on the basis color illness Yes, but arranged mage jungler. I feel like he would have been super squishy. So very similar I don't know if you've guys played I can only refer to smite. I keep saying this But very similar to he boy. I think we'll he bow off in his name is in smite So like his basics are very close range But then he's a he can do like mid to far range abilities But then he do a lot of damage where he just gets like wiped out. He can kill the light to his Jelly would you think of marsh? I mean so the interesting interesting thing with marsh is And a lot of these characters actually is that they were going away from the bipedal character design Yeah, and I would have loved to see that and that's something we talked about with a Theorial in the past because we we've shown off the concept art for a quadruped character That that's a whole level that you can go into that most games most 3d mobas have not gone into And so it's really curious to see so many non bipedal Characters as they're like next few and part part of me wonders if that's why they were never pushed out is that they ran into Balancing issues of some kind with these different character design types, right? Well, I think when we get get into hatch. I think that was definitely the reason hatch was never introduced to the game but um As far as as far as marsh goes I think marsh would have been a mid laner like like we were talking about they have an Ability listed called Kobe juke's fish Which is like a piranha that is obviously a Projectile my thinking behind this would I at least think would have been cool was a projectile that can be launched Kind of like rampages rock, but with a much smaller hit area That gains more damage the longer it travels So if you can launch it from your core all the way to their core nail somebody in the face while they're coming out of there They're found it would just just delete them like I think that would be so cool If you hadn't a really hard to hit ability like a rampage rock But it gained damage the longer the further distance it traveled which is a cool idea I don't know if that would have been what they did with marsh, but I think it's a cool idea Well like a drop effect, so it's like a throwing up and cool the duty So it goes like it good. Yeah, so depending on how high you aim Yes, exactly he had How do you think his jump animation would be because you was talking about like the difference between the normal two-legged characters to like Different beans. I'm gonna call it. I don't know He's got a slug body. I don't know how he would jump. Maybe yeah And maybe maybe he wouldn't and that's exactly I mean that's part of the thing you can do with these characters is you can introduce Movement differences because they are just biologically different. Yeah, right It's not quite the same but like Grognark in a theory. Oh can't jump because he's a giant rock Right. The point is that he's so heavy that he stayed. He's permanently on the ground And so it's you can introduce more unique concepts like that when you branch out of that bipedal kind of design I think it would be cool to give them something like a Bit of CC resistance just because like roots wouldn't affect them as much since they don't have legs to get tripped up by roots There's right out of them. No, yeah, exactly. Exactly He could leave a slime trail and in that basically for like five seconds as passive and every time that you can go back over that slime trail Oh, that would be neat. It'd be like Iggy as scorches the oil spill I Think as far as lore goes definitely from session. I probably the same swamps that more Gash came out of and apparently Narbash probably lived in since part of the lures that he once gave more Gash a frog or something like that I Think definitely session with with that little crew Yeah, the sword stuck in his back that you pointed out pop a K which looks a lot like gravestone sword mm-hmm So No, go all you go ahead. No, no, you had something I took the lab light before I apologize I mean, that's kind of the thing you can do with the lore of Paragon Especially if with how integrated some of the characters were it seemed like every character that came out in Paragon had relation to it At least one other character. Mm-hmm right in some capacity and so having Marsh come out with like a some kind of tide of more a gash And then maybe potentially some kind of tie to gravestone in like a hunting capacity Could have been a really cool idea for sure Well, I know Kay has a pretty interesting idea for the for the whole sword in his back and everything so in gravestones law from what I remembered he ran from wherever he was from and I Assumed that Marsh had invaded or like his race or something They had attacked basically the castle he was from because gravestone was supposed to save a princess or something like that And he ran and that's why he's all I think that's the basis of his ultimate And why he can like come back because he has the ability he has and that's why I assumed is like maybe he got a fight With Marsh or his people was fighting they lost they overfrew and then you know, that's why gravestone is on this thing of running away Because you know, he's a he's a good lane pusher He could run away pretty good Assault the gates is really meeting his own gate. He's assaulting it to get away from the thing It's invading not actually trying to siege the castle. Yeah, that's what it is The other thing we had with Marsh was the the lantern like they very specifically had a model lantern for him And my idea for that which I think is probably wrong after hearing what Kay dug up my idea was that like marsh lights are Known in an actual anthology to like lead people to their death It's actually just phosphorescence in the swamp But people would follow them and people that was the mythology was that it was a lantern that would lead people to their deaths in the swamp So I was thinking maybe it would be like an aoe taunt like he pulls out the lantern and everybody has to come towards him Hmm Maybe some that could be as old that brings in the dot damage because he had a dot damage Oh, so you I feel like your ones way better if it's not that Yeah, apply it and pull him in a little bit and What about the little nest-looking thing? I don't remember you called it something a pet a pestule I think is what I was calling it, but I don't know what they would what they have named it I mean to me marsh is a jungler more than he's a mid laner. You think so I think yeah, because because of everything you guys have talked about right to me the marsh lands It's that it's the area between right? It's you You have to you go to the marsh you never just exist in a marsh for the most part and so Him being able to roam the marsh with the lantern potentially creating some kind of like fog where he goes Creating that like that would be neat that idea of the lantern being the light to guide you somewhere And really it's just him and that's how he kills you right it's that kind of The the predatorial bait and switch That he's pulling on people that that's the what I see when I think of all of that and then Having some kind of dot ultimate and all those things Tie then further into that foggy concept to me. Yeah It would have been cool to see him. That's for a damn sure Mm-hmm Let's move on from marsha to the other one that I think I think definitely would be a jungler, which was hatch Jelly excited about hatch dude. I am so mad that hatch never came out. This was one That I had heard about in like leaks Before the game even died and I was like yes, please give me I hate I hate spiders for like a personal thing But in the in the game like the idea of a spider that potentially could like climb walls sideways or Any of those things was such a cool concept And I wanted to see it so badly especially again String away from the bipedal concepts for paragon Having a spider like actually roam around. Oh would have been such a cool cool thing to have. Yeah Okay, what do you think a hatch? He looked amazing like he like just he looked amazing But it's just the thoughts and the ideas that you just come with as soon as you see him So he looked like a really heavy spider and I'm thinking about what you said about your character Um the character in ethereal. I didn't even know he couldn't jump But if hatch couldn't jump but then as you said his bases he could walk up over walls So all the and all the places that when normal people Would jump over with their abilities He would just like crawl over it But then he may be slightly slower than other people and because it's a 3d mobile Not smart an actual 3d mobile where you could aim You know you can shoot him on the wall and stuff like that and he could like lay down webs like traps like little spiders Like there's so much they could have done with him. Yeah, it's crazy one the thing I think about for a lot of these is Games will usually have placeholder names for characters One when they're in earlier development and then update their name to be whatever the final name is later on And so I wonder how many of these Are the placeholder names versus the actual final name And if it's the usually the placeholder names are indicative of Who they are as their character like they're right their identity as a character So if hatch was a placeholder name and not the final name of the character Then I want to know what the abilities would have been so badly of like Were you placing like spider eggs around the map and they hatch when people come out like what like there's so much potential Jump when you like facehuggers Exactly, yes That I think about the game evolve had a spider monster. It was a 4v1 Um Game style had a spider monster that was one of my favorites in the entire game And could do some of those exact things of like hatching little spiders to do things and jumping on walls and hiding Like that idea I think is really really cool and something paragon Kind of started to do with severog but then didn't really touch past that Was kind of lean into that some of your characters can be horror-esque Right and that severog is kind of like the bringer of death right the grim reaper And You can lean more into that marsh. I think leans into that idea Hatch again could be another one that leans into that idea where you can go that darker route with these characters And have their kits really define that difference in In tone. Yeah Definitely had an interesting design like it wasn't just a straight up spider It was like a spider spider's body but had like a kweto growing out the front of it like total recall style And then like it's floral limbs like the the the two limbs up front were very pronounced and sort of club like kind of look Kind of like grux's clubs. In fact, maybe grux's clubs are made out of hatch four limbs Oh Because if you look at his floral limbs, did you look at grux's clubs they kind of look the same but um Yeah, I definitely think it would have been a jungler He or she whatever it was And I would love to see um other games have this like you have richter the you know You hit somebody with a pull and it pulls them towards you I would love to see hatch be able to throw a web of somebody and then pull themselves toward that person As an engage I think that'd be really cool or just anywhere they wanted to like throw the web up onto a tree and then Be able to stick onto that tree, but if you do hit a hero with it You you have fly into them until damage that would be I think that'd be fun That would be really different or even just like a web that shoots and knocks them against the wall and holds them there Yeah, that would be neat So many cool ideas With Now the next one I want to talk about is patent This guy big old gun definitely definitely looks like he's part of the made of police department Um, I think k you've mentioned that and when we talked about that last week he might have been might have been um murdoch's cousin or something Now we had talked about this last week k and then then the the audio got messed up, but Since then I've talked to a few people apparently patent was supposed to be a long-range mage like an artillery mage Because I had totally thought he would definitely be a carry with that giant Railgun he's rocking, but apparently he was supposed to have like grenades and stuff and he was going to be like a long-range mage kind of like uh Kind of a bit of a howitzer sort of thing uh me I looked at his picture And I saw that gun and my immediately thought was like artillery that he was we've got the mage like the front forward battle mage in bellica We've got the carry in murdoch and if we're going to say that he's part of the police department Then you need some kind of artilleryist attached to that as well. And so that he fits in super well. I think for me What the fuck is going on? He does look robo accomplish doesn't he? But without a pistol he's got a shot I wonder what the fuck is going on in omeida city that they need like bellica and murdoch and this guy to police that city like Jesus and they're a trio they go everywhere together. They only grow out on the most important jobs They're like, oh, we got to call those three and actually least important because they got time to go fuck off in agorah No, they're you only call them when it's really bad. Okay Oh, they're not the avengers. What was the dc one called? I completely forgot No, the bad ones Oh, uh Yes, it was that's good. They're like this was that's good Well, I'm looking at some of his stuff now on the fandom website and it says he's got grenades He's got a be a primary slug. He's got a plasma projectile But then it also says he has a he has an alternate. So he may have had um different stances which is yeah Yeah, he was he was right about the jetpack. It says something about primary helicopter movement speed um And it says something about a sword So a mega sword, I don't know. Oh, man. Oh, what a mega sword a mega a mega sword was it like shaped like Donald Trump? Oh my god There's so much but yeah, and they've even got his um His attack speed rate in his base attack time cleave rate in like all of that stuff there as well Oh, it seems like aside from boris. He was probably one of the next ones to come out. Yeah The very very finished artwork for him and definitely modeled three model um Yeah, that man now that I know he had a a mega sword. I want to see like maybe that Like that'd be one hell of a stand switch like you go from Pounded people a long range artillery and once they get close to you you whip out a Fucking i'm thinking the the phase sword from halo and just start going down with that shit Well, they go into detail about the old in his ultimate They've got his primary It was alternate primary secondary and his alt but his ultimate goes through I guess as a combo So it's one of it's a probably be a lock-on move for a group people or one character Because it goes it says mega sword well wind infinite edge infinite edge cooldown infinite edge damage laser and strike laser and cool down damage Mega slash then Reaving blade then skull buster then sky slam Slice and dice and it transformed duration and then well wind Geez, what the hell? They had I'm guessing that was different stances for different abilities Or it was like a move you hit and then you just keep that doing the different stuff through it Because they don't do much of damage, but I feel like all of it adding up would do a chunk of damage Man, I was really really curious about patent like I was all in on marsh, but now i'm really curious about patent Oh, that's crazy. I didn't even know that. Yeah, that's freaking nuts And if he was that close to being done that he had his numbers All in there as well. I'm really curious why he wasn't included in the free assets Because boris was included because he was that done like it wasn't just It wasn't just a concept at that point But if we had Flash arts a model a Material on the model his numbers his abilities everything like I wonder If he was just under the threshold of ready enough to go in that group setting or in that release Yeah, I mean I wonder that about all of them to be honest, but I even in an unfished state ship them anyway and let someone else pick up those pieces I would love for one of them to get a hold of these Oh Papa K just just linked uh That's his alt Just his holy shit Yeah, that's a lot of stuff from kind of combo Yeah, some kind of combo, but even he all of his abilities. I don't know if I can even send it I think I need nitro. Um, I wish I don't have I'll send his other abilities as well. This is alternate And then here's his primary and thing. They've all got different like words. Um, I'm guessing different Abilities within his ability. So he probably had like three or four different stances, which would have been crazy Summon llama count llama movespeed llama health llama damage He had a llama He had a llama the new bed the new best hero in paragon had a llama steak. What's the llama's name? Napoleon Donna play Tina Tina you fat lard eat your dinner Oh my god, dude, if it had gone out into game and been called the llama. I would have called it Tina all day long I think everybody would Oh, I just got hit with the Tina Brilliant, I love this motherfucker's over here feeding Tina Hey, it seems like he summoned llama count He likes four six eight ten because I'm intense ten llamas That's insane With bellica and murdoch on his by his side he's got the llamas to bring him in They all become the cavalry real quick the rest of the opd All right Final one. I thought her name was yang for a while. That's the name of the artist. It's salea But yang made sense to me because I got yin and she's definitely Of the same ilk as yin salea is she's got her her fan and um I don't know. She just fits in with like yin and fing mal and wukong and that whole Windy city that they're guarding and aurora and all that stuff So I thought that she would be it would be nice to have like a yin and a yang and like she maybe might be similar but a little bit different from yin, but Anyway, her name was salea. So I'm completely wrong anyway We don't really know too much about her. We only got like just a little bit of artwork But um, I mean salea is Basically trying to say sun. All right, so she's got some kind of sun abilities, which I think would have been really cool for sure Oh, um, especially with the golden armor that you see in that concept art I think really tries to emphasize that idea And then uh, okay, what do you think about salea? I would have loved another jungler and I feel like she looks like you know an assassin like a lot of acrobatics Flips potentially throwing a fan something like something for a mortal combat. She looks like you know katana and i'm not I feel like she would have been crazy like just looking at a weapon. She has two fans with blades on them So maybe another bleeding flicking character And also she would probably have like a movement speed ability, you know, just get around the map or something along those lines Maybe she could fly on the fence. That would be sick. Oh, that would be neat I would like to see her be able to just as a basic attack throw the fan and it spins in place for a bit and then boom Rangs back to her And if she had two of them, she could have two of them spinning out at one time So like if you lock somebody down that would do like a ton of damage or you could Just hold it on one minion or something like that I think that'd be a cool basic attack idea that we never saw paragon implement But we've seen it in some other games. Yeah I would be you said that she was the last one, but what about Igor? Oh, I don't think Igor was actually supposed to be in paragon No I don't think so I never found anything that specifically had paragon labeled on it It just Igor just happened to be a creation of zack foreman who also did hatch Uh, okay. Okay So what about um, there was like a bunch of other names on the wiki on the And then wiki and there was like magna I in or a in There's crag which he has two strings so crag roll in and crag shred cost But the biggest one I found was tim. I don't know who the hell was tim is him and he's the enchanter Is he an enchanter? Is he him? Yeah, Tim the enchanter I think he's got a attack speed rating increasing quite a lot, but I'm guessing he's scott's brother tim Scott scott stills brother tim. Yeah, exactly And he's got all of his billy ability is laid up like his ultimate rewind time secondary slow stack magnitude like he's got all of his stuff there like his whole kit secondary radius attack gallon duration still movement speed He's got his alt arc cooldown costs all of that stuff there. See if I can find an imagery of tim I want to see this character and then the huntress, but that's old isn't it? You I think you've not spoken about huntress before She she was in patch 24 or that's when people found her. She never got brought into the game. Mm-hmm Oh tim I can't find anything on tim I bet he would have holy hand grenades and a rabbit with big pointy teeth So he just be like a dying one I don't mean one of the other characters that we can kind of talk about That didn't exist in paragon, but does exist in faults and probably will exist In both of the others is boris. Oh, yeah Boris technically never released in paragon But from what we hear Fault's kid is pretty similar to what he was going to be in paragon Based on the numbers that were released and all of that kind of stuff So it's really interesting to see that and I would have loved for boris to come out in paragon Though he you know, he would have been absolutely busted Like boris was when fault first came out Yeah Right like the boris was an overtuned monster. And so you know in paragon, it would have been 10 times worse Yeah, yeah paragon loved to release those overpowered heroes um Yeah, I think it's interesting that I mean when you you can look through his Now you pull him up in the unreal engine and go through his his abilities and stuff And I can see why Like over prime had boris for a little bit before they before they went to net marble And his abilities were fairly similar to what they were what they are in fault And I think it's because The animations in the names are kind of suggestive of what they would be like the double swipe and there's an animation for him swiping twice One of the interesting things is that one of the differences is in fault your cue You you snort the cocaine and you run straight at somebody and you get a burst of attack speed And over prime you would charge towards someone And it would pick up speed the The the faster the the longer you charge towards them when you hit them it would damage you and them And and stun both of you. I think It's like a weird maneuver It was like a full You want to go tanky and you just dive bomb in and yeah stop somebody for your team At the cost of your own health his ultimate was basically steels ultimate too in over prime which Is not that much different from Fault where he jumps up in the air and then slams down on some one person But it's a lock on and fault. It was not a lock lock on on over prime. It was just an aoe So, all right, cool. Here's a question for you guys two questions. What's your lost main roles? Like what's your preferred main roles? support jungle Okay, okay. I know the support because you play a lot of deco man goose Um, I know you like calori, but I didn't know if that was your main role jelly I know you love calori because I remember how you went on about when it came to over prime. Uh, please Um, no, I'm a jungler through and through despite Hating the jungle 98 percent of the time. I'm definitely a jungle player What game that you've out of the games you've played not including the feral because they don't count as a um Paragon zombie. It's not it's they're they're their own thing. Okay What jungle have you enjoyed the most? honestly, whoo That's hard. I mean Honestly, I think I would have to say over primes so far Uh, I didn't get to try the new and improved jungle very much in Pred during their last test, but I know it changed a lot between tests So it's hard to say for sure for them, but over primes. I think offered the most Potential once you understood how to play the jungle Whereas I think the others are more straightforward. So I think it was more rewarding to be a jungler in over prime directly Okay Oh, okay. And you know, this is this is kind of still in the question from the aphirial Stress test sign up. What passive or ability would you like guys like to see in the paragon remix not pro not? aphirial but the paragon, you know successes not remix What type what passive ability? Uh, passive What I think I think in general I couldn't think of an ability quick enough off the top I think in general I would have loved to see more takes on basic attacks similar to how yin changed basic attacks for the carry roll Um, I think more differences like that would have been huge for paragon And similarly like a theory we've got malware that's doing the charge shot instead of just your traditional basic attack, right? Implementing more unique ideas like that into a MOBA. I think could have been really really cool But like revenant and they tried to do a drongo, which they felt but like that's what basis I'd like to see a roar slide Let's see that brought back As a passive i'm talking about it's like what passives like on that basis of passes passives passives shit, I don't know That's crunching Crunch passive on everybody everybody Yeah, that's the only passive I could really think of Okay, it's but ability wise you want more movement abilities that also have a terrain effect Because Aurora's like movement is very unique for I'd say all mobs I've played I've never seen anyone else actually like being able to dash and she can Like change the whole game like your team could be in a fight and you could just oh, hey guys. Bye guys And Yeah, even at the beginning, um, I don't know if I was a scumbag because I played Aurora But I used to like wait until the minions just spawn Use my wall and then like hold my minions so that the minions would be in my tower That was the only way you could you could uh, you could hold the minions was with Aurora And that was definitely a good strat to use with her Yeah, I definitely think that that does put you in the tier of scumbag though. Sorry Like Oh, that's a common strat and like Dota and stuff like being able to the hold your minions back the longer longer than the other guys like your skill or whatever, but Aurora was the only one that could do it and paragon Saw some really good plays with that wall saw some plays where she cut off really terrible ones. Yep Or she didn't do it right so that she just Zerped into a wall and then fell down and But that's what another thing was she could go up That was such a really great concept and your teammate could follow you and run up Obviously it was a very short time, but your teammate could run up the ramp So if you're carrying needed help you could get her from let's say your mid lane fighting in between towers She's getting ganked or whatever you've dashed him push the enemies away And you're now your teammate can just jump on it and run up and then it disappears That is great. She's such a very good character. A bit OP with our ult, but very good character. Yeah Yeah, I love the roar miss old Aurora But anyway, I think that's uh, I think that's it for all the um the newer heroes and uh Yeah, unless you guys had anything else you wanted to say about the heroes that never got introduced Nothing comes to mind Nothing quick good I just hope one of them can uh, one of these companies could eventually pick one of them up and put them in their game That would be really cool to see. I don't know if they have to pay for them or not But that would be uh, that would be nifty Um, so let's move on to plugs. Uh pop okay. You got anything you want to plug Um, I'm really bad at this guys. Um my youtube channel pop okay And in recently I've been playing Elden Ring So I've been streaming that like literally every day for like one to two hours I've been doing everything like I'm still in the first area and I spent like 25 hours on the game I think so far. Yeah, that's very excessive of hours, but Oh Yeah, that's it Joe ease Uh, nothing to plug for me. I'm not doing much the next couple weeks because I'm getting ready to move So the whole background will be different. Uh, yeah, I'm moving to my own place So I'm not I'm getting out of my sister's basement. No longer gonna be a basement gamer. You know, okay Okay Okay What about you man goose? I got none to plug but uh Yeah, I think this has been interesting again Would love to see I think if any of these studios has a shot at getting some of these unreleased assets Probably would be oh made us a smudge They're probably be oh made us it's um They got steve superville on the team and uh rgsa are always had such close ties with uh With epic, but I don't know it'd just be cool to see any of them And I think it's also really cool that over prime is already adding their own heroes I know there's going to some people off that Their hero their favorite hasn't been added yet, but they're making a whole new hero for other people to play But I think that's the direction over prime needs to go in I think each one of these games does have an established path that they want to take and I think that they're walking those paths And the uh, they're starting to harvest the fruits of that labor. So even fault They stuck with the course and now they've kind of Improved their image and they're starting to get those positive reviews. So You know good on them But I think that's going to wrap it up for this week I appreciate you guys Watching the premiere if you're watching that or watching the video later and uh, leave some comments Let me know if you want to come host the show Uh, let us know what you think all of like marsh and hatch where they would have been played in any of their lore What there you think their abilities might have been And uh anything that you found out personally about what their abilities Might have been but that is going to wrap it up for this week. You guys have a good one High food Yeah, I wasn't gonna say it this time man goose Special shout out to channel members foolish blood hunter jelly knees me all mixed for men stunt farith and raven