 You are listening to the 8% Nation podcast created to help you become a top producer in the insurance industry Enjoy the show Welcome to the 8% Nation podcast where this podcast is dedicated to helping you as an insurance industry producer or Individual be in the 8% which is 92% of insurance agents fail James. What does that mean to you? What does that statistic mean to you 92% of the people in our industry fail? What's that about means Cody's not talking to those people right? I'm not putting on enough content So best dressed in the middle that's that's how we do with this right so today. It's you man You always make me feel silly. I don't have a pocket square or anything. Yes, he does. Oh you do gosh dang it I didn't wear the bow tie. That's true. That's true bow tie Well, we have a very special episode today. We have mr. James Whitley of SLS James, would you mind just telling the people who you are your background A little bit and then we'll just get in just kind of talking some shot man. Yeah, sure So I've been with SLS for 10 years, but I went to I grew up probably how most of us did I grew up where my dad my parents and Stilled in me at a young age, you know, you need to go to school and do good grades You need to go to college you need to get a good degree work for a good company work there for 30 years and Get a pension and retire and that was always instilled in me So I did my best to do that. I got into University of Florida. Go Gators and Yeah, and you got to and you know who got I got a degree in finance I always wanted to work on on Wall Street Wall Street was one of my favorite movies And I was gonna move to New York and work my way up the corporate ladder and and take over the world Jordan Belford beat you to the punch bro. He did and and Subprime mortgages beat me to the punch I graduated in 2008 and the job I had lined up from a Internship in 2007 no longer on the table the guys that offered me the job no longer had jobs Wall Street was collapsing New York was a disaster. So in hindsight, that was the best thing that could happen to me because I didn't move there I didn't get invested in stuff. I didn't you know have you know all this overhead And so I moved back home with my parents and I was trying to figure out a way to Be successful when I was bouncing around from jobs in the market kept getting worse Working at banks. I worked for Marriott, I did you know everything in the Sun got my real estate license and So I finally woke up one day after a couple different iterations of that and said the next person was gonna fire myself was gonna be me and My best friend in college Grant Docherty Shout out Grant couldn't be here today But his dad owned and ran SLS and he said that the recession had been the best thing there happened Right, it was the best couple years He'd had because a bunch of people that thought they were too good for insurance made the transition and came over and the majority of Our clients are on a fixed income. So fast forward to then and I moved to Vero Beach on a whim and the rest is history so Grant and I took on the task of trying to figure out how to do what his dad had his dad was was wildly successful at field sales and His dad gave us the task. He put us in a literally a closet half the size of the studio and Asked us to figure out how to do it over the phone and that was in 2009 and today Get to sit with you too so right on well Hey, just so because some people don't know how big of a deal you are with it with is met it with as much You know that you can share walk me through like the size of your organization Maybe the employee counter. I know you just walk us through kind of the scope of what you guys operate over there because it's a spectacle We went and saw you guys so SLS has Unique operation in the fact that we have 32 I think at the moment Full-time staff members so they're not in sales and their entire job is customer service Servicing new business You know checking policies commissions and accounting We have live receptionist a to the phone for all of our clients, you know the whole time We have our own in-house lead department. So everything is being done from an agency perspective so that our Think we're at around 250 sales agents can do one thing and one thing only and that's Go out and sell insurance. So we've got around 200 field agents And then 50 Currently in the call center doing tele-sales. Are you able to give us any numbers on? Just production SLS did over 25 million last year and Ron pays to to exceed that But you know our goal as we talked about before our goal is to get to a hundred million And to do it as quickly as possible dude thinking big early on the podcast I like it well Dallas in Dallas and 8% help me think big help me think bigger So and Grant and I you know spend a lot of time talking about that and seeing that and realizing You guys say it all the time on here that you know This is the time to go in the insurance industry. So I love it right Well, you seem to say a lot about 8% man And it's unsolicited in terms of seem to have really opened your eyes. What specifically man clicked with you I'm interested to hear that perspective because I mean you're not a guy that typically I mean I consider you like a monster that kind of has it figured out, you know, I mean, I know you I do not have anything figured out. I feel like I'm just just trying to figure it out And and I've spent successful people always feel that way by the way Yeah, so, you know and it is I mean there's there's plenty of people out there way bigger than me and you know I've always looked to to Rory and Grant and I and that's grandfather. We always look to him. I mean he's he's my mentor I'm trying to figure out how to do what he did but then understanding that we can potentially take everything He's taught us and take it to the next level. So I spent Trying to figure out a cell on the phone not a lot of people were doing it in 2009 that was kind of the early years of any type of phone sales and I guess outside of Jordan Belfort and so I would just watch YouTube videos and So I watched a lot of Cardone stuff early on and I got plugged into 10x stuff and him selling on the phone And so I've told Cody's before I watched Probably two years worth of Cody's videos before and I'm like the creeper I don't ever like like or comment on anything and I'm in all the forums I do all this stuff, but I would watch his videos and do all this and so I heard about 8% Didn't go to the first one, but we got a chance to meet in person You know just 10x3. I was gonna say where'd you two meet was that what it was? We met at 10x Three in Miami, and I wasn't supposed to go to that Lauren and I were at another conference I was speaking at and being a vendor at and we took a red eye overnight just to be at day three or we may still not have met yeah and So in that creepy, I guess stalker fashion I Saw him and it was like oh, that's that's good. It's good He doesn't know who I am, but you know, I went over and we started talking and So, you know this industry I had seen their stuff. They just didn't know it I had yeah, there you go See so what what did you see? I had seen Grant and James both both Just through Instagram through Bert maybe you know just just through oh, yeah, that's right people online You just kind of like you don't talk like I'm the same way I don't you know, I'm not one to like comment everybody's posts There's other people that are way better at that But I'm always you know, I'm looking and looking for ways to improve and finding you know look looking to learn for other people and Yeah, I recognize you guys too Yeah, you didn't know it then but yeah in this industry, you know that we get a bad rap We is in the industry. Okay, and you know, there's a lot of Unethical stuff that happens and unethical organizations or people and so I've always been very reserved and Making those which so the reason I say percent a lot is just because that was the first time where I was able to go somewhere And and you know you guys did a great job of marketing that that this wasn't a recruiting event This wasn't a try and and get business or do this and it truly was just an industry event So that was the first time that I really stepped outside of our little Nest yeah, that was SLS to do that, but you know, I always believe I can learn you know a lot from others That's cool, man. Yeah, no, that's awesome. That's awesome. So I mean, is there anything, you know, if you could give a lot of a lot of our audiences younger in general We have a younger audience demographic Is there anything you could do to encourage those younger sort of producers out there that are trying to Potentially think about getting industry or anything like that. I mean, is there anything you kind of do if if you were If you heard this piece of advice when you were 22 or three or four you would it would have changed your perception like is there anything that So I was 22 when I started in the industry And I would not be sitting here today if I just went and got my license and tried to go sell you know without Rory and the mentorship there and the structure and you know having you know grant to lean on and all that so I think I Guess the best way to say it is you've got to be able to find You know partners and mentors and people that you can really trust in order to do that The same thing I was thinking he was going there I'm sitting here thinking of Lord mentor and like finding good people and learn from people and With your dad exactly exactly yep someone to lean on someone to learn from Bradley asked me that on his podcast and dropping bombs and said You know, you know, did was your dad help? You know, did you learn from him? I'm like Absolutely and that's still the first person. I go. I mean, he's he's a father figure I mean, that's the first person I still go to you know if I have questions about this I mean, he's he never sold a policy on the phone, but he still knows more about this industry than than anybody I've ever met So most people are shame to admit that other people are helping them too. I don't know why that's the thing But it's a thing people are like it's almost like it D Credibilizes them, you know, that's not even a word but you see where I'm going like that that someone helped me get where I am It's like dude every successful person ever had someone help them get somewhere So it's all and successful people are more likely to admit it It's really unique, you know, some people a lot of people just they're like, ah, that's that's I did it It's me, you know, they're like, I'm not gonna let anybody share in that and not give anybody credit And you know, but I love hearing people do that. Well, especially 92% of people aren't in it You know, if you can find one of those 8% and learn from them and we've been able to accomplish and you know half the time what Rory was able to accomplish and now we're helping that next generation Accomplish it in half the time that I did it, you know So there's gonna be somebody comes out of so s that you know is is able to do what Grant and I are able to do it You know 26 instead of 33 So that's what if any bring up a super good point that if anyone's out there like struggling You have to plug in and find someone. Yeah, they can help you, right? you You can't you really honestly cannot succeed on your own You just can't do the second person to today that said we typically don't work well with people that are contract chasing You mean and just chasing the higher contract the remiss of the same exact thing. They both said the same exact thing It's weird how successful people kind of think alike, you know, so interesting and that's the that's most of our industry now It's just flashy and you know Even though it's super old-fashioned and you know, there's the things that matter, you know Or the people think matter aren't aren't as important, you know, it's like majority people fail, you know Let's just make it make some freaking money. Well, and you see And you guys have seen the inside of our organization. So you see how much money is going into that? Oh, yeah Oh my god, I don't make enough money to pay for that. How many how many square feet is that that's a couple stories 23,000 23 thou It's beautiful now. It's and it's not just like a random little warehouse, right? It's beautiful and so it wouldn't have mattered what contract level at 22. I would have gotten I couldn't have afforded to to invest what he invested to get You know the the call center up and running to get the leads where we needed to get it to get You know the the just equipment and training and product knowledge and all the things that he brought in industry experience It wouldn't have mattered you could have paid me a thousand percent You know I couldn't have afforded that so you know to have that and have what he you know what he did You know for us and then to the same token if I had just been by myself on those bad days We were talking to the your sales team earlier and it's the same thing It's like if I'm just sitting there alone and I have nobody to bounce that stuff off of like you can get in a Dark place really fast. Yeah, you know and so it helped the competitive nature help But also just being able to be there and have just early honors Grant and I and having Grant to lean on and if Grant had a good day at least I was like, okay at least somebody made a sale and and vice versa and we were able to Roll roll play with each other and do all that stuff and hear something on the call and say hey, you know, let me you know It's like that commercial Let me talk to your supervisor and switch this is Peggy, you know, you know And so I grant I could do that too and stuff so like, you know, him and I He's got strengths and weaknesses that they're opposite of mine and we work really well together Rory and all his stuff. So, you know, that's that's always what I say is you got to find somebody that if you know, if I could be Rory when I grow up, I'm gonna be a pretty happy guy And so if you can find that and be willing to let that person, you know mentor you and teach you and help you grow So that tell a sales center 23,000 square feet. You got 32 employees How many callers do you guys have 50 and then I think it just now clicked with me I don't think I really am I understanding that you and Grant built that call center basically you granted that yes, dude I don't think I even really realized that I kind of was like, oh, I guess Rory and Grant and I kind of was like Okay, I guess James was kind of like a producer and then kind of came up But it's just not clicking that you and Grant built that but by learning how to do it themselves That's incredible. Yeah by being thrown into I don't know if Grant at a college would have would have Gone right into sales and and I certainly would have if he hadn't so as one of those things were him and I were like We're gonna do this and I was like, all right, let's do it and we went all in, you know That's all in the bridge You know, I packed up drove home at nowhere else to go and had to go down there and make it happen That's awesome I kind of always assumed like there was something there and you kind of like Worked through the system and then kind of took it over but it sounds like you built it for nothing Well, but we had we had Rory's infrastructure from the field sales perspective, but on the tail sales There was nothing there. Yeah, dude It's impressive. It's really cool. How about this and Cody cut me off man Cuz I I'm just interested in these conversations a lot So if I jump in with too many questions, just let me know no, no, you're good, man But I'm I'm unlike an entrepreneur you and I are we're all entrepreneurs here, right? And I love to understand what I feel like it's one thing to look at to go from 25 million to a hundred million is is you know one thing and it's super difficult obviously But going from zero million and no telesales to building your Just you and granted a room right doing telesales to a team of 50 How did how did you make that jump for the first like five telesales hires? How did you like because at what some point you're like alright grant you and me aren't gonna be on the phones 100% all the time anymore. How'd you make that jump? Yeah, we're not gonna. Yeah, and when was that? Is this 2012 11? Yeah, I think 2012 is where we really hit hit our stride and Again going back to you've got to have somebody that's willing to invest in you and support you right because I mean you guys talk to a lot more Agents and stuff and to make that transition from a solo Pernumer to all right now. I'm gonna be responsible for these people And I still have to pay my bills and now I have to pay for for their marketing and they're this and the overhead and all That and keep everybody afloat You will take a hit right you will take a massive hit and Your income and you have to be willing to do that to invest in them So a him and I were willing to do that B We had his dad behind us who was it was fronting the support and the marketing and all that but We got very fortunate. You know we're You know we have a saying that we're not in the insurance business We're in the people business. Yeah, and that goes in sales right when we're talking to our clients You know we're selling ourselves and we're making a connection and we're doing all that But it also was really strong in the recruiting side. You know we didn't Like all of a sudden just say all right, we're gonna turn on monster and deed or zip recruiter You know Facebook was a really recruiting tool then and so it was a word of mouth thing and So by building those relationships and doing that, you know, we got very fortunate that you know We found some some key people you guys got a chance to beat and they are now our team builders who you know We edify them They edify us and they eat breathe sleep and and live the SLS, you know system lifestyle so they're they're able to go out and Kind of you just see you you you organically found two or three callers to sit next to you And then two or three turn into ten and then ten turned into 20. Is that kind of it? Yeah, I mean you you find people that you know aren't happy where they're at or You know they have a good personality. They've got to work. I think they're looking for a better opportunity and When there's just one person sitting there, you know You got to make sure they're successful Yeah, and I think that's what we did a really good job at is caring about them as people and trying to get them to be Successful and so that's just become Duplicatable to a degree. You got to you got to figure out a way to duplicate yourself. So we yeah, it's really neat that you guys Especially for your in-house call center. It's only it's not people that have been the business before One ladies, you know working at KFC and struggling and now earning six figures, you know It's like that's the power of our industry and what's available and it's just a man when you hear that and I heard her story That day and she comes in there. Oh, she came in cry almost dude. It does like it was like it was like I was like getting goosebumps. She was standing there telling it and I'm like Gosh it and we were talking about how that needs to be on video, you know like that is freaking cool And and and we're really lucky. I mean Grant and I always say that we found some really incredible people You know and like I said this industry you can find some people that aren't that way and and I Don't mind. I mean a lot of the people we found are way better sales people than I ever was You know, I mean I can I can outwork somebody to try and get to where I need to get to but you know We found some people that just have it and it clicks and It's awesome. Well something was super unique at your guys's office was the the culture, you know, I Don't think culture is something that you can just You know teach or train on it's like it just you know It takes time and it takes some attention and you know The things you guys were doing giving out tons of cash every morning and like hyping people up and like I was freaking ready To get on the phones for an entire 48 hours in a row. I mean I was just so jacked up, you know It's like what are some things that you could do for like someone out there trying to build a team build an agency Build an office help people grow From like a cult we talked about this in the car from a culture perspective from a you know team perspective like you guys have just done such a good job from a Culture motivation inspiration standpoint Thank you. I you know Again having a system that we could plug into, you know, I go back to what you said, yeah We were the first two to sell over the phone, but there was already a culture there that was already that I mean The owner, you know of our agency he Walks through the call center Pretty much every day, you know and high fives people and checks on people and he'll put money up on the board and all That so he was doing that when there was just Grant and I you know, so he was the one giving money That's one incentivize. I have not met him yet. I gotta meet this guy working working with us on that And again, I just I wanted to emulate everything that he was doing that's all because why if it's not broke Don't fix it right it was working in this way. It'll work here And so a lot of that stuff came from him and how he taught us and like I said to this day He still does that he doesn't need to he doesn't even show up, you know if he didn't want to and he does He comes in, you know every day He knows everybody's name. He knows all their numbers. He knows what they did what they're on track for even better than I do sometimes And so yeah, we've made our own tweaks, you know here and there But you know, it's truly about caring about you know people we've I mean some of the stories I won't say in here, but we've talked about some of the things that the grant and I have done for you know Our agents in the agency so that it's it's truly a family and you can ask anybody there and we are a family It's not just show up make sales make money go home. It's like, you know, if You know, we had the hurricane recently and they just canceled school for the week and People still had to make money. So, you know, we had you know the conference room We were gonna put movies on in there and have snacks in there and let the kids come in there and do whatever We had to do to make it work. And we and I know most of the kids names and they know mine And I got dum-dums, and yeah, I mean just little things like that. That's a super good point because And I don't know what it is and and I'm guilty of this too of Being so focused on like rules and regulations and know your kid can't come to work and Holy crap, you better not be a minute late and you can almost be wrapped in up in all the Negativity instead of just like looking at hey, let's just create a freaking solution and watch the kids Well, you guys go make some money, you know, I Don't know where that came from but like that's that's awesome freaking cool. That and I wasn't me That was a big paradigm shift. I came from corporate America where you know, like you said, I mean there was you know all these protocols you had to hit through and go through and all this stuff and To see you know that and to see it at first hand And like I said to go to a meeting with 200 people in the room and you know The owners just walking around sitting down talking when we go on on our incentive trips, you know He stays in the same hotel. We do he's not like at some exclusive like house down the road And you don't see him except for you know on stage and security with some off, you know He's sitting there at the pool, you know those bathing suit just like talking to you about your your family and all that stuff So, you know, I was very fortunate to learn from somebody that did it that way And you get fierce loyalty and you get people that enjoy what they do every day We we we talk and I say this a lot, but we talked to you know insurance producers all day long and What I thought was so interesting whenever Cody and I came out to see you guys and hung out with you and Grant You know, we had dinner as a great dinner. We spent two hours and all you guys talked about was your people 100% you told me story after story of the you know People that you've like literally helped come out of Detroit with no opportunity relocated them helped them get relocated Because I've been in those situations Cody and I you know, we're running circles where I've been in those types of situations And you know what? We always hear my business is so big and let me just I'm so I've got so much Oh my gosh, like let me tell you so much money. Let me tell you about this new thing I figured out to get an extra, you know 20 grand a month and I figured out this way to get in the middle of this deal And I'm like I'm like whatever. I mean, that's fine. I like making money, too. That's cool You know what I mean? Like there's nothing wrong with that But I thought it was interesting that when all the guards were down and we're all just talking all you and Grant did for two Hours was talk about your people, you know, why is that story after story after person you got it You got have you ever thought about why you guys are like that because that's a perfect opportunity because mr. Cody celebrity over here. Everybody knows him if there's ever a time where people kind of want to like, you know Kind of like put their shoulders back and talk about they've accomplished. It's that and you guys did the opposite. Why? Because that's how we feel. I mean, I wouldn't I would be nowhere without Those those people that we've surrounded ourselves with I mean, I'm very lucky and blessed to be surrounded with And they know who they are if they're watching I Know that I can be here Working with you guys on things that are going to make us better as an agency But I know that the world isn't coming to an end down there, right? Yeah, and You know, we have you know, I've had Thanksgiving You know had people over for Thanksgiving to my house and done all that like we're just very close You know, I know everything about you know, they're family and all that and so I thought I said they are a family And so I guess I make the comparison. I don't know if they'll appreciate this But it's like I you know, I have a two and a half year old now And so you know this and you're gonna call him like you're too natural But I'm saying I I never understood when you meet like when my friends would have kids and like you be with Them and all they talk about as their kid. Yeah, and I'm like, yeah, I don't care that that you know They painted their first son, you know, like, you know could count to five for the first time Like I don't know why that matters to me and now I have it to that rope and like all I do is talk about him, right? Like J5 like it's talk about everything with them, right? I can't talk about them all day long and it's no different with with them, right? That that's what I mean by that like they are a family so I'm gonna like that's why we're successful because of You know from Detroit and KSE and Haiti and some of the people we have I mean their stories are incredible. It's way cooler than mine And so the Y is just their family and you've always looked at him like that And you feel like that leadership has been modeled from the top Yeah, because I guess whenever You ask Roy the same thing if you guys have a chance to meet him He's gonna tell you about all the how lucky he was to find this person and this person and this and all that and I Don't think he sees it as as he is some savant I think he sees it as the right connections with the right people at the right time You know because there's never been some big marketing blitz that we've ever done I mean almost all of our growth I think it's always been organic and and this person came here because of this person and that and it's You know, it's like legacies in college or something like that, you know It's really cool how it how it happens So and I feel like we could just feel that in your meeting whenever Cody and I went we were a part of your morning We were touching on culture. It's like Talks cheap but when you walk in to the actual meeting that's a kickoff and everyone's like having fun and Shouting and I mean that the typical, you know all kinds of shouting to like I loved it. I loved it Well, I mean, you know, you hear well call center. It's a high turnover. Just part of the nature of the beast Yeah, there's everybody hates each other and it sucks. I'm sure there's some turnover, but like you didn't feel that You know, and I don't know did you say today that the telemarketing a call center job is like one of the top five Employable jobs in the country right now. Did you say that today? I heard that somewhere. There's like more telemarketers in this country than almost any other I can see that. Yeah, so if you count customer service and all that stuff, but and they're want to take that away Yeah, and I mean the The culture and all that stuff is why I mean, I don't think And maybe this is where it comes from We don't lose 92% of the people to come in, you know, we're probably I've never tracked it hard, but I'd say We're north of 50 as far as is bringing somebody in and having them, you know, stay long-term with us and Well, it's not because Although maybe now that we work with you, it will be it's not because we have the Glengary It's not because like the the script is is some you know I rubbed a lamp and a genie came out and gave me the best script ever and we can just sell everybody, you know The at the end of the day Everybody's doing the same thing, you know, and I hate to dumb it down that much And that's why I say when you say what what should somebody young do? We're all doing the same thing So you're not gonna get some magic scripture. I'm gonna get some magic leads are gonna do this, but like We've grown to where we have because of that culture and because of that belief in that family and because if somebody's down By people are gonna come help pick them up, you know, and you're never gonna see anybody You guys got to walk through and see there somebody just sitting there struggling through a presentation and and Just having people just sit back and do nothing, you know Everybody's gonna, you know be able to jump in through their headset and whisper to them and help them or stand over their Shoulder walk them through it or or be Peggy and get on the phone and help them and do all that So that's why a brand-new agent who's you know scared. It's like learning how to drive, right? You've got dad right there just being like it's okay. Good job, buddy Like all right, let's try it again, and then all of a sudden it just becomes, you know second nature So well what I think is interesting. Are you able to share what percentage of your business is field versus tell sales? Or is that private like we're currently about a third A third of the AP is from the call center, okay? Which is incredible, and then so you're like one of the only organizations I know about that have a very successful field force and a very successful tell sales operations You know people would say specialized or what you know some people look at that as like crazy like what I know I understand the story and kind of why and how it grew up, but Why why you know is it just a product of chance and opportunity or? It's normally one or the other typically it's interesting to me I think because you know Like you said a grand I came in with a specific mission is figure out how to make this work, and we did but You know the traditional door-to-door sales is still The majority of sales made and insurances that way and So if you've got a large majority of people who are very successful doing well making good money Established doing that why try and take them out of that and put them into something else and It's not you know this this isn't one-size-fits-all and you feel don't questions all the time somebody that you know is At 22 I would not have Been as sick Cody was able to do it at my Tall goofy self, and I was overweight and all this stuff You know if I was walking around just knocking I didn't have the structure or or the all that stuff to prop I probably would have washed out pretty fast And so I think I was better at that and learning how to be I could be whoever I wanted to be at 22 on the phone But there are some people who the voice inflection may not be there, right? And so they're better in person because they can use their hands and they can use their facial expressions And they can touch somebody and use stuff from around there and their warmth and connection comes through there And so you know I think you you're able to find what what works for for everybody cool Yeah, cuz I try you know sometimes like Cody and I have been interviewing a lot of people and talking a lot about Telesales, I'm not exactly sure why but that's kind of been the theme and we're also getting a lot of demand of Telesales but you know Feel the you know field sales is just hugely successful While he said so I want to make sure that I take a moment to let you know that I'm not ever You know promoting you know tell sales over field sales and they're still very successful and all that And so I got a comment the other day. That's like what does it feel sales dead? I'm like dude, of course not you know and in our number one like our record for the most sales in a week and the most sales in a month and The most sales in a year are all still held by and you've seen some of the numbers our call stairs, but I'm all still held by Active, you know field agents that we have Wow And it didn't surprise me. He really doesn't why is that Cody? Yeah, I Think it's easier. I think it's easier to succeed in the field too. I just do Let's see for most people. I think you have to work harder at tell sales if you put 13 hours a day and you're structured and you have your appointments and you have all that stuff and you work the referrals and you know the neighborhood and you do all that stuff and that's what One of our field reps did when he's he put it out there said next week. I'm setting myself up I'm gonna go break the record and what would you have to do to break it like forty something like a bunch of appointments or Yeah, seven days and and you know appointments from you know, eight into whatever and then working the referral system You know probably like 60 70 we do we do a lot of referral sales and so being able to get Something we call instant set of referrals, you know to where you you're gonna get the client to call that person and then you're Doesn't matter. You have another appointment. You're driving right to there to do that. You're able to get more people in the home and So like you said, I mean you're if you're good at setting appointments, you know what your no show radars You know what you can do and doorknock and you know work the street and do all that stuff You're gonna be able to make more presentations than 13 hours of being on the phone Because you got to go through a lot more people to get people answers. Oh, yeah, is the secret sauce Referral system. Can you walk us through that or is that proprietary that's unique from an I'm going to see them I've never heard that before you're the first person's ever told me that because don't you don't you to put that over priority on a pre-scheduled appointment? I that can't be that proprietary. I mean if if I'm selling Cody and Then you know, whatever your referral script is and then he's like, yeah, my brother and you're like, okay Let's call your brother and his brother answers and he says hey, I just got insurance was guy you needed to we've been we talked about this the other day what What would be more valuable? Time spent then to go talk to his brother, right? So you're so you're skipping appointment if it's on schedule and driving across town It's a lot easier to just call somebody and say I'm running late, right? It's true Interesting that's probably mad at me for that, but I don't think that's that that's that you know Mind-blowing to think about we still don't have our knowledge bomb button Yeah, you do get mad they're not sitting there, so and they'll they'll get mad at me about something at some point So we're all good And I try to please everybody, but you can't you know and but what you're saying is unique because And I see the importance to because you already helped their family member There it's instantly on their mind. You know, you don't know the other person yet, but it's a warm introduction The appointment can you know unless you're just bad on the phone You can reschedule it for a few hours, you know You know a client wants to help one of their family members and I'm gonna be here a little longer than expected Like that's not a hard call, you know, and it's no different than from from a tell-as-hills perspective You know, we get it a lot where walk in and say You're not on the phone. What's you're just sitting there. What's going on? Oh, I got a I got an appointment In 20 minutes. I got a call back in 20 minutes So I don't want to get stuck on a presentation and it's just like how many of your callback appointments actually answer the phone It's true, right? So like probably like the how is the how is the best-case scenario is I'm on a presentation Exactly my 230 becomes a three and I call and just apologize and there's a good chance They weren't gonna answer the phone anyways and so, you know, you've got to make sure you're not You know, I like that you're not counting your chickens before they hatch, right? I like that, you know, you hear that all the time. You're like, how's the day-to-day good any sales? Almost Says he wants the thirty thousand it's two hundred and fifty dollars a month And all he needs to do is is have me call him back tonight because you know his checkbooks at home All he needs is a bank account and some money, right? But he's ready. So I don't want I don't want to screw up calling that person, right and they get so Focused on that. Why do we get so caught up in the weeds and like analysis paralysis and like is it just sometimes we Prioritize dumb stuff to avoid working Yeah, I mean it's you know, I think you nailed it. I was I was like that, too I used to make if Graham was here, he'd say I mean I was the worst at This was very hard for me to make the transition because my my father is from Small coal mining town in Kentucky and so he's like old-fashioned and southern and all this stuff and so growing up like Tell of marketing Was such a novel concept because I saw the way he Answered the phone and did all that stuff and it was very hard for me to understand It wasn't my dad that I was called like I tried to practice on him He's like son. I still know you didn't understand why I was trying to do what I was doing But he wasn't he's not who I was after and it was hard for me to understand that because he took care of life Insurance when he was you know a lot younger before I was born You know he had all that thing here were after people that you know are the ostrich right to put their head in the sand and just pretend like they don't have to worry about it and That's why I remind myself all the time that there are more people working in call centers and everywhere else and it wouldn't Be that way if it didn't work But when I first started I'd still just be like listen this guy. He's I know he's gonna buy I know that he just needs to see something right so I'm just gonna put this I would spend hours making like Excel spreadsheets and putting numbers in there and like custom typing out a whole letter Explaining all this stuff, but this whole packet together get some stamps to that waste three hours of time. Yeah, right and Go mail this out, you know thinking that if he just got that and did that but it's like These people have known about insurance their whole life. They've talked I'm probably the 35th person they've talked to yeah about insurance You know and it took me a long time to I think that's a good tip for people is understanding like, you know, this wasn't Some, you know cut-co Knife set like no diss to cut-co. They make great knives But like somebody knocks on my door selling me knife 30 seconds ago I didn't know I needed new knives until he showed me that I could cut through concrete or whatever it was, right? And my current ones can't cut it to me right and but with you know insurance like I've always known it Right and it's like so you're not telling me anything. I don't already know and so there isn't some revelation there I don't need to it's not a Kirby vacuum, right? I don't need to see the benefits although it's an important part of the presentation and that's why you know, I really Got everyone understand that you're really selling yourself because they're gonna buy from somebody that they like and you know, I Don't say this to the client, but we have an expression. It's like you're 67 and uninsured for a reason So like we're talking today because you've had 67 years to think about this, you know, so Hmm. I like that. You said something that triggered something for me, too, which was When you're putting together that package, you know, it's in it out to Joe. It's like that is going to be the one You know, it's so much time. It's it's it's good You mentioned that because it's like there's a lot of age out there sit there doing that kind of stuff And it's also in sales like we just said about how we're looking for reasons not to work But also we're always looking for the easiest way to make a sell, you know It's like, okay Well if I drove leads to this landing page and then they booked themselves and then oh by the way They get an email next day and then they're gonna just fill out the application and do the phone interview How can I get to where I make cells about talking to people? You know quick rap sales in there. Yeah. Yeah It's like agents are always looking for the and I was probably the worst of this because I was always good at marketing and prospecting I was like, okay. How can I make? 20 grand a week and Not talked to anyone. It's like dude. That is stupid. It doesn't exist There's some gurus out there on Facebook right now that'll argue with this No, no, no because they're selling you the course to do it. I know I'm sitting here in Jamaica and I can show you how to do what I'm doing Oh, you're making fun of me calling leads in Jamaica. No, that's my thought of though You said Jamaica. Yeah. Yeah, no, you're right though. Seriously Seriously, well, and we deal with that all the time where you know We use the term buyer intent and buyer intent is a real term that we can move things up and down But you get to a certain point where it's ridiculous where it's like I only want to talk to This type of person I want them to go through and answer these 10 questions And then I want them to book themselves on this calendarly link and all this other stuff And I'm like that's fine to fill out this survey. That's fine. We can do that We're going to pay $19 a lead and your close rate is not going to go up 2% I mean in general and or to me $190 a lead and you're going to get an extra 3% close. Yeah, yeah, exactly You know what I mean? Like exactly it's going to be if you ever figure it out that I'm out of a job Well, there's If they sell themselves, what do they need? We don't need people to dial It's just carriers are gonna love it. You know, it's interesting where you know, it really I've been saying this a lot It becomes to me block and tackle and I feel like the guys that can block and tackle just realize that it's just gonna work Yeah, it's it's not fun to block and tackle, but that's what wins football games You know, it's like it's blocking tackle like this is the lead game the marketing game And then yeah, there's there's obviously skill and work ethic and you got to you know understand all the things in the industry And have a mentor and all that but from a marketing perspective it typically usually is blocking tackle really, you know, I mean so That's good. This is good man you reminded me too of the the things that I would do to avoid just making a call and This this goes back a long time, but Grant and I we got just a bunch of old be leads, right? So just direct male it leads that hadn't been worked or hadn't been sold and I remember one day Grant and I took out a new bar. We needed this state. We were selling it was no good, right? It was like that nobody in this state buys. I need to go to this. Yes. Yes We got that state leads out and we spent all day Sorting these by like age like male female like married unmarried and in our minds sold ourselves. I'm like, you know the 71 year old widow like in you know, the the non Urbanized sections of Louisiana those are the right so we'd spend it I sorted all of them and then those were the leads I was gonna call I wanted Mary Jones, you know who whose husband had passed away and like We'd sit there and call that and then it'd be you know, and none of those would sell and then you know Eventually you have to call everybody and then it'd be the you know 85 year old married guy in New Jersey who you know just keeps telling me to get to the point and then he buys You know a $220 policy, but I had to wait till Friday to get to him But we spent an entire day just sorting leads and so now we just have to say just It's just a name and a number First person you see pick up the phone. Well, and what I find just from the marketing perspective I don't even know if I need to say this anymore. I've said it so many times I'm not a licensed agent on the marketing guy So I just kind of speak to it from a marketing perspective But I feel like what happens in this industry is that because of that reality that is the case of there must be a better way That's why lead vendors are like kind of like I don't know attacked or looked at as like, you know You know not not the best of group of individuals because it's like well your leads aren't good I'm gonna go over there. Well, your leads aren't good. I'm gonna go over there. Well direct males dead I'm gonna do this and it's like no no no it's all its names and numbers. There's all kinds of ways to win You know I'm saying there's referrals also It's not the digital is better than direct male or direct males dead and it's not about this whole wrestling match It's just really it's blocking tackle and let's try it all and let's work it all and let's have a good attitude And yeah, we might find the honey hole on one little deal, but it's probably gonna dry up next month Anyways, so let's not try and like throw all eggs in that honey hole You know, it's like fishing, you know, just because you use this lure to catch this type of fish on this day Do the same thing over and over and you're gonna catch the same fish the same size of fish You got to switch it up just part of it, you know And if you're not trying different things and I always think of like the raptors in Jurassic Park, you know They test the fence, you know and all of a sudden they got through the fence because they tested it That's you know, that's marketing, you know You got to kind of like figure it out and then you get through it and then all of a sudden you're You know you're through it, but then there's another fence. I like dress park. I love that movie So they say they're like five years away from it now. He's on it. No way From what making a dinosaur? No way Dude complete tangents. I'll tell you it's all tour of the island. Yeah, I'll be the dude that just does it just All the carriers I have to add a new disclaimer, you know, this doesn't cover you death by dinosaur So I love the Jurassic Park movies, too Cody we got we got our friend James. You know your audience better than anybody in this room What does your audience want to hear from this guy? He's a bottomless well of wisdom. Hmm. I would You know, I'm here to learn from you by the way, so boom I Like the CT would like to boom. I like I really think that We've talked a lot about telescope lately, I really think instead I think we should talk about like the structure of a week and how to be consistent and How to go man how to go earn, you know five grand this week, you know And kind of like what that looks like because you use the word system a lot, you know And and a lot of y'all's production comes from field agents that are successful and consistent You guys do something that's a little more unique on Fridays That I've never Personally done just because I thought well, you know, they may not they may forget about the appointment You know, but kind of walk us what through what you guys do on Fridays. Good thing. It's super unique Yeah, so And and this was a shift we had where you talk about And I need this a lot, right? So so it works in the call center and Even more so in the field people need structure and they need accountability You talked on one of your podcasts and I listened to a lot of them So I forget but you're talking about the different personality traits and you know, a lot of a lot of yeah And I got to do that with Matt Monero and coach Bert And it was really cool to see, you know, the puzzle pieces and how that fits But you know, if my wife was watching she you know would jump through the the screen there I am not organized and I'm not clean. I'm not organized like that's just not my my strong suit And so structure and and all that accountability and stuff was something that Rory provided for us and provides for You know the field agents and so they they tweaked the system a little bit to where you would think it would be counterintuitive to take The entire sales force out of the field for an entire day You know when when people just think about numbers and numbers and numbers, it's like, okay They need to be selling every single day and a lot of places say that they don't like like incentive trips and stuff because of that kind of stuff, right and so to see the wisdom of You know him and and one of our our current president sales who came in and had a Routine that was working for them. And so I think it was about eight years ago. They instilled a Friday meeting and so every Friday there are very little sales made In the field side some people have follow-ups and appointments or referrals, but they spend all day Going through setting appointments getting organized getting their mind right getting getting retrained right it can be lonely out there In the field we talked a lot about the the family atmosphere of the call center I need people to pick you up and you need to remind yourself that there are other people Doing you know being successful and even though we're a large outfit if you're you know if you work in Springfield let's say for for For us and you might be an hour from the next closest agent So you're having a rough week and all that so to be able to go to a centralized location Spending an entire day with family, you know, you break bread together You do all this you do a little bit of training and then we have a call session. We set appointments And we spend all day dialing, you know, so You know a lot of lessons, you know from the call center get shifted over there But then setting up their entire week how many because this is this this I love Because most people think too small. This was good So it depends what your goals are, but you know the minimum we always encourage everybody to do you tell me how many calls to make or Appointments, it was the whole four times. Yeah, so they do seven seven seven seven So seven appointments Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday 28 total right that appointments And then you're obviously still leaving room like we talked about for some referrals and stuff in there And then anybody that's in a Friday meeting that's getting leads if somebody's super interested or they're trying to go for that record They also, you know schedule, you know a couple once Saturday or the whole weekend or anything like that So gosh, I freaking love that because who what agent? can't make money With 28 set appointments And we take all the like we said all the back office stuff out of that so you know Taboo to say this but I mean we don't charge we don't charge agents for leads, you know So so it's a a free lead system And there's a whole lead department dedicated to for field agents making sure that everything that you're getting is within a tight territory similar to what what you guys spend a lot of time doing here and So then Thursday night boom They get hit with all these leads in the area that they're gonna be working So they can wake up Friday, and then they're just ready to go and hit that They don't just spend any time sorting or organizing or going to pick up, you know Their bulk mail stuff or anything like that. And so it's just that routine that happens and every single Friday that happens like clockwork and When that was instilled you can look back in time and see the numbers when everybody was working five days a week or the weekends To when they went down to four and the PPA went up Because you weren't spending so much time, you know too many people just get up Monday All right, I'm gonna go out there and do it and I got one guy I'm gonna go see and then you go see him and then it's like okay now What do I do with this today? And you're sitting in your car 45 minutes from home trying to die on the car card figure where you're going next You start the door knocking so pushing that structure and having the accountability of all being in the room to do it You know we could do it from home, but we have everybody or courage everybody to come to a Hotel room conference rooms. It's easier to get more. It's easier to get more out of them It's more fun. You guys have you know probably giving stuff away like you already do at your office, you know It's just it's a neat deal. It's and it's more efficient You know then not knowing what to do, you know, and there's it's overwhelming sometimes and stressful to some agents Where it's like well gets Monday night. I have not made any sales. I need to set some appointments and But crap I gotta go to a birthday party tomorrow and a doctor's appointment and my kid And then it's when it's Wednesday and morning and oh my gosh, I've made any sales this week You know I can't take time to make appointments because I need to go sell and you know you get it can be you know cyclical and that's why I said there's a lot more correlations between you know field sales and tell sales and people give it credit I mean we're really doing the same thing at the end of the day It's just the vehicle that you're doing it, but I think it's so much about that's the same reason The call session happens in a big group because when everybody's sitting in the room doing that There's just that energy right you start to get that low dull roar of everybody's on the phone and everybody's talking and you know your Tally marky and every time you get one and it becomes a competition and you're enjoying that and you get to go eat with People that are your family just like we do in the call center. That's why we Encourage people not to set appointments from home and you know, we don't have you know any sales reps that are selling over the phone So is there of the on are all 28 of those appointments typically set on that Friday? Depends on the individual right so we talk a lot about you know referrals There are a lot of people that will come into Friday with Monday and Tuesday already booked okay, so they've already had people It's like well, you know, I'm not home right now and okay, then and so they're pre setting their their next week and There's so much psychology to it right because you don't want to sit there and book appointments till 9 o'clock at night So if you know that that's your routine if you know, that's what you're doing You're gonna be more conscious as you're working through the week of trying to make sure you're you're staying ahead of the game for For the next week and coming in saying hey already got money taking care of But yeah, if you're a brand-new agent and you're coming in there The goal Friday is to is to set Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday 28 in a day and how many dials does that take? I Ironically, we've had a lot of people doing what we were talking about the sales team. So, you know, we have a Hopefully your audience and too young in our call center. We do a TPS report, which is what we created Which is a shout-out to office space And so, you know, we do that how many dials do you make how many people and it's again the competitive nature It breaks it up and you can track your progress and you know I encourage everybody to always know how much do they make for every dial and every presentation and every appointment Because whether you get a know where yes, you're still making money. Yep. And so the correlation we made, you know the hundred and forty dials I was talking about our We've had a lot of agents sending in pictures of that. It's it's about the same So you're calling, you know between a hundred and and you know, maybe a hundred eighty somewhere in there Right on to do that. Sheesh That's not bad though. Really you think about it Oh, I pick up phone a hundred and forty times in my whole week is booked and I'm probably gonna make I'm probably gonna sit with 14 to 20 of those people and I'm probably gonna sell, you know 7 to 10 policies like That's amazing think about the amount of money from that, you know And and then that's that's back to the system like we said there if you just have a system Then you'll avoid being in the percentage that fail There's more to it too too because because it's like okay the more I'm performance I'm running the better. I am the more in the zone. I am it's like a basketball player not putting up shots three days in a Role, you know, you know, it's just You know, you're hitting on all cylinders the more the busier. I am the better. I am I just know that You know, so it's just like there's a lot to that and I feel like you create habits, right? You know what I mean like you do the same thing over and over again I don't know if you guys are like this But there's some days where I'm like making decisions and I'm actually being lazy I know it I can feel it and I do you guys get that stomach feeling where you like you can't put your finger on it But you're like, I'm like not working hard today Yeah, you know what I mean like I like and I feel like that comes from Operating at a high level and then then you become so comfortable at that high high level operation That all of a sudden you're not operating there and you're almost like I'm like sick to my stomach like something's wrong And really I think it's because I'm like calling myself out. Yeah. Yeah, you know I'm saying like I really feel that totally You know what I mean? Like I was you know, you you've commented on me being off for a couple days And so I was like, you know what I didn't even thought about it. Let's think about it Well, I've been doing so much like work and stuff. I hadn't really gotten in as many conversations with sales potential opportunities And before you know it, I'm like, well, and that always sparks you and excites you. Yeah Well, I'm like keeps you moving. Yeah, I'm like geez. I've been Just making excuses and not work. I think you're saying like what am I doing? You know, like there's a lot of this work I could have been doing in the evening. What the heck was I thinking? You know I'm saying so That's that's I think the most benefit is that you you you create this habit of High excellence and Activity and then when you're not there, you're uncomfortable, which is really kind of a gift from God It's good. You know I'm saying like that is like you can find yourself there Man, when are you not? You know, it's like there's some people that'll say everything you touch turns to gold or or why is it that? You seem to always be successful. It's like well, maybe I just kind of know what kind of activity I need maybe it's deep down and grain to me because I know the habits that it takes to be successful I'm not doing them right now and I'm it hurts my makes me feel sick when I'm not doing it Are you guys like that? I'm totally like that. Yeah, and Grant every Monday preaches this and Coach Bert says the same thing, but you know We've adopted this expression of the long obedience in the same direction, right? So it's that concept of just doing the same thing over and over and over again with the same intent And you made the comment and this is one Grant uses all the time in our Monday kick is you know Kobe Bryant couldn't score 50 points taking three shots, right? and so it's like in order to score 50 points you got to take a lot of shots and When you're a shooter, you know or when you're like and when you have those Appointments booked or when you have that accountability and the other base making the calls Everybody, you know, it doesn't matter if it's you know Kobe or LeBron or Jordan or whoever you're talking about would hit these ridiculous slumps, right? And and these slumps, what are they? What does a shooter always doing a slump? Stop shooting? No, oh you're saying a good shooter shoot the way out of there. So you shoot out of it Yeah, right, you don't just see you like Kobe or bronze down the side like no man I got it today. Yeah, right, but it's like they know their numbers, right? And and so you'll see somebody have a 22% field goal percentage for one game but over the course of the season their field goal percentage is almost always gonna be the same and Any of the greatest you just see that slight improvement as they continue to work on it, right? Yeah, and so it's you know that mentality, you know of you know That's I think why why we've been successful is You know something you guys triggered me to say is you made a comment to him like hey You see him a little bit off and but it helps and so You've got to have those friendships like Grant and I are very good at You know point counterpoint and being able to you know, he can come to me and say like Kind of being a jerk today Like what's going on, you know, that's another reason why we're a lot alike. I've told you that yeah, and Like yeah, right. I didn't sleep well. This happened this Overly caffeinated numbers are down this and that and so like he has to like taught me off the ledge and like get me out of that And that's funny and you know, so so that helps and just like we said when you know your numbers in TBS report You know, it doesn't matter because I can track everything and whether it's 7777 or you know our hundred forty dollars You can always you know shoot your way out of a swamp or understand that hey, I'm on a hot streak and you know I got to stay consistent. I love that This has been good man This has been really good. Is there anything you're gonna regret not saying to our audience? I hope not But I think of it. I'll come back. There we go. We'll have you back bro. We'll have him back, right? It's been awesome, man. Thank you buddy. Yeah, thank you good to have you here dude. Yeah good make what thanks for making the trip Man, dude. I appreciate you taking the time guys. Hope you found some value with James And I appreciate you guys taking the time to join us for a little while. This is a long podcast Dylan So alright, thanks for joining us. Have a good afternoon