 It's been a long long day. I got a lot to say. It feels like I'm carrying a two-ton weight. I'm going to see a friend. Hello, I'm Monsignor Patrick Winslow. And I am Father Matthew Cout. And we are speaking from the Rooftop. A podcast brought to you by Tan Books, in which we invite you to join our conversation out here in the open air. Where we look out upon the world around us from the rooftop of the church and share with you what we see. Well, hello there. Hello. Welcome back to From the Rooftop, as per usual. It's good to be back because it's been too long. It's been too long. I mean, I think you have to always admit fault. We do. Well, some of us... I want to admit your fault. Yeah, exactly. You've been very difficult to pin down and to try to get you... This has been a recurring theme that's difficult for me, but in part it's true. That being said, it is nice to be back together. And we are preparing as we speak for the athletic event of the year. What's that? Big ball. This athletic event, this particular sport, was born in upstate New York on Birch Lane. Where I grew up, Birch Lane. It was originally called Winnie Ball, short for Winslow Ball. We had...the boys were all their teenage years and the girls were under 10. And so we had to have a family game and we set up a volleyball net, but volleyball is not going to work. When you have little ones and teenagers and... And for any Winslow Ball, it was more or less uncoordinated. I feel offended because I know that was directed at me. It's true. Unless, of course, you give me a badman. That's true. And then that's where I shine. So the reason I say we're preparing for that is because we at St. Joseph have begun our new year. We are a month and a half in, hard to believe. And the hotel class, the new class, is doing wonderfully. But they've yet to have an apostolic visitation from the Vicar General, Monsignor Patrick Winslow. Well, I... He came this morning for Holy Mass and is staying for a barbecue at the barn. And you promised me a good game of Big Ball. NSU. So Big Ball is like volleyball, but with a really large beach ball size bouncy ball. And everybody... It's a great equalizer. Yes. Everybody gets the thing. And it makes for a lot of fun. It's wonky. And you see really athletic people, like these guys who are really athletic. Suddenly on the level of somebody who's not athletic. Yes. Because it's really wonky. It's hard to control that big ball. It is. And your greatest efforts at whatever you thought you knew about volleyball. Yeah. They don't work. Out the window. Yeah. Because if you try to slam the thing, it'll take a hard left turn to there. It just goes out the ball. So when we say Big Ball, we're talking about a, you know, a five-year-old kind of ball, like a plastic ball, a blue ball, a red ball. That's massive. Kind of like the balls that people used to stretch on. Yeah. You know, when they do their exercises. That's right. It's funny. You said, when other people do the kind of self-replatory right there. I've seen those things. Yeah. I've seen something like it. And except they're not so heavy, right? Because those things will break your legs. They're light. They're light. Which kind of brings me to a continuation of a topic we have before relative to the virtue of play. And I've noticed it here. I noticed it every year when we began a new school year because one of the things that boys do after some orientation time is that they have an immersion in the Latin language in part to break down this mystique that Latin is somehow other than just a language. It is the vehicle that has transmitted the faith for 2000 years, that which the documents have all been written in, et cetera. And for large part we dropped it. And the purpose of my making sure the men know it is not so much relative to the sacred liturgy, but just their whole family history. But it has a secondary effect which I find very solitary with the men in the beginning is that you learned a language without the use of reason. You learned it when you were a child by just simple identification and response. And when you learn a new language, if any of you have ever done that before in a real immersion experience, you have to fumble around a lot and be willing to make lots of mistakes and you look like an idiot. It doesn't matter how intelligent you are. It's like big ball for languages. And it breaks down their sort of desire to present themselves as something that perhaps that they're not. As polished. As polished, as intelligent, as self-controlled. You know, our wonderful Magistra, she's got people running around with rubber chickens and picking up chairs and dancing and doing whatever else because you have to react to the command she gives you in Latin, et cetera. But it's interesting because it takes a long time to break down that sort of protective layer and make a fool of yourself. And big ball, everyone can do it because you cannot not make a fool out of yourself. It's what it is. And you can't be that bad. Well, it reminds me, you know, when our Lord says that we must become like little children to enter the kingdom of God. And so those types of things, whether it's something silly like big ball, which is just a lot of fun, or learning a language, it's in those small humiliations that we become childlike. That's the great thing about a child learning a language or playing a game is they're just all in. They're all in it. And they're not entirely self-conscious. And usually they're not self-conscious at all until they start to become a little more reflective about how they appear in front of their peers. But when you're young enough, toddler enough, you just showing up doing your thing. Yeah. And if you mess up on words, who cares? Yeah. And if you mess up in a game, you just usually demand that somebody change the rules. Well, you know, this, so to take it to the next step, just not talking so much about games at this point, but talking about how do we break down sort of our social fears in situations. You have been described by some as having no shame. Now, what we mean by that is not that he doesn't have perfect shame relative to his own brokenness or sinfulness, whatever else. He can go to confession like we all can. And we're all saddened by our failures in our sinfulness. I don't mean that, but you can't put Winslow into a situation and get him embarrassed. He always turns the thing. You always turn the thing. I'm talking to the audience for you at this point. You always turn the thing into some sort of a strength. No matter what you did that was foolish, whether you come back with something self-deprecatory or you pretend that what you did was exactly how everyone else should do it. Like everyone sort of falls in line and gets behind you and you become the sort of social hero of the situation. And it's great. It's a great gift. And I say that because, again, I'm watching the men and you know how it is when you're in a social situation and all of a sudden the person with whom you were speaking, let's just say they go off to get a bowl of chips that are laid out or whatever else. And you're standing there by yourself. And I watch the men as the hands slowly go into their pockets and they sort of turn toward the corner. There's that horrible awkwardness of I don't know what I'm doing now. And I don't know how to break through this show. Not everyone is sanguine, right? Some people have just very introverted temperaments. Right. What sort of advice, since you are the master of no shame? Well, first I need to explain its origin. Be careful. There's an origin story. So where do you think I got this from? Oh. Oh, you know for a fact. Well, I just don't want to talk about the baby Jesus and the crush scene. You can talk about that if you want. But that might be too revelatory on both levels. No, no. Well, that is a fun story. But that may be a little more PG-13. But the, let's just say my pants when I bent over to put the baby Jesus in the crush eluded, it dropped a little. I looked like a plumber. That's the bottom line. I looked like a plumber. And for all to see. It was a really interesting event. Yes. But I whispered to him something like hey, you know, this is happening, you should be aware of this. And he threw something out there that was so darn funny that it just broke the ice and no one cared. Probably something like your welcome. You know, something along those lines. Enjoy it while you can. You know, that sort of thing. But I get this from my father. Yeah, is that what it was? Are you kidding? He's the most shameless. He's the only man who I know that when playing a game and he's losing, he teases those who are winning. Who does that? How is that even possible? And yet somehow he finds a way to turn it around. So these men are gonna find themselves as everyone that listens to us, find themselves in compromised situations, silly situations, because life is sort of silly at times, right? You make mistakes where you do something stupid or something happens, you gotta work your mouth out. Right, or you make some noise or whatever else and things happen. Yeah. What's your advice? Well, first I think is just be a little bit lighthearted. I think that's important. I think you need to forget yourself a little bit. On the other hand, I do honestly think about other people in the room. It's not as though I'm unfiltered. I just have a wider berth of what I'm willing to say or do. I think also in those situations, there's a desire for some levity to be brought to the equation. There's some desire for another dimension into this atmosphere, especially if it's overly formal or another formal events aren't great, but you have to bring something to layer into the formality that's just more human. And so I see that and I read that the situation is requiring it. Now, if I'm at a funeral, that's not gonna happen, right? Sure, sure. Have I been tempted? Situational awareness. You know, it's true, absolutely. But I've been in situations where I've been in very somber situations where something really funny comes to mind and I suppress it. But I secretly wanna share it with somebody because it's funny, right? I mean, maybe we've all been there, right? But you just know it's not the right moment. You gotta read the room, as they say. And so I think it's part of it. I think with growing older, you become a little less self-conscious. Would you agree? I do. I think that there was a time, put it this way, our identities by and large, you know, we don't create them despite what the world might say, right? I mean, we sort of inherit them. I inherit the genetics that I have. I inherit my family. I didn't choose any of that. Didn't choose where I was gonna grow up, what land I was brought up in, what language I speak. As you get older, you begin to make more choices, but your identity in large degree is set by the interactions that you have growing up. So how much do you identify with upstate New York? I mean, you can't get that out of you no matter how hard I try. It's a fault, you recognize it. So much so, it's true. But it's true, but I'm good at it. So for example, when we were at, off of like Norma at the restaurant with Father McCarthy visiting, this young lady, Yeah, you know, she's in New York. Before she opened her mouth, I said to the guys at the table, she's from Long Island, not just New York, she's from Long Island. And the moment she opened her mouth. And I love that. Because you could see it, right? There's something about the persona. And I love that. And I think that what happens is, that's the way real life works. Like you identify with a group and your identification begins to shape your identity. The things you choose, the things you give yourself to, the people that are in your life. And a lot of those are a given. They're just a given, they're given to you. And then when you get older, if your character solidifies enough, the new situation you're in, your identity is significantly foundational enough that the new situation you're in, you're not looking for them to give you your identity. You're not looking for them to give you sort of feedback as to who you are because they don't know you. It's like asking an opinion of someone who knows nothing per se about, let's just say, mechanics. And you're asking their opinion. Well, their opinion means nothing because they don't know anything about it. Nor do they know anything about you. So you're not looking to them to give you that sort of feedback. And yet we can be self-conscious in the last, right? We can be terribly self-conscious in the last. Because we give too much of ourselves over to another's opinion or view. And by the way, I was right. You were right. We did ask him if he was from Long Island. She was from Long Island. Yeah, she was. I wanna go on the record. You were right. Because we did not circle back to that. But I think also part of it is, it isn't just about inserting yourself into a situation and bringing those elements to the dynamic, the social dynamic, but it's also about giving other people space to do so as well. Because we all know we've been around people who can dominate. And it's tiresome when you have one person dominating a dynamic. And maybe at first it was fun and good and it served as a social lubricant and it was interesting. But at some point when other people can't play, so to speak, it's overwhelming and it's just unpleasant. And so I think it's really important as much as you give, that you sit back and you take and receive. And you be a part of that exchange. And it's a lot of fun because when you do open up space for other temperaments and personality types, you hear the funniest things coming out of, coming out of the mouths of introverts or very dry comments that'll just have you slap in your knee. Yes. And they're the best, yeah. Well, and they need, as you said, they need that space. Yeah. You know, Father Bittner is one of his favorite lines, one of his most famous lines is, have you ever heard of other people? When someone's dominating a group, et cetera, et cetera. I think of our own Bishop. Yeah. I mean, he's not the first one to speak in a group. He listens a lot. And whenever we've been together in a large group, we're all throwing things back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And if we just give him usually a little bit of space to actually speak, what he says is always insightful, profound. Often that's witty. And very witty. Quite witty. And there's a lot of people like that that need that space to be able to speak. I guess the reason that I've been thinking about it is, number one, because of the new class, and I'm watching their awkwardness, now they're so solidified as a class that they do, which is so typical every year. They've started to become natural. They do, but they move in the group now. Oh, I see. Like a flock. Yes. And the other day I was in the kitchen in the refectory, and we call kitchens refectories here, because we get refreshment. But I'm over at the coffee stand, and I'm getting coffee, and they couldn't see me. And I hear them coming in one by one, marching in, and they get to the island. And one says, and halt. He turns around, and they all salute, whatever. I don't know what they were doing. They're just playing. I didn't see me. So once they saw, I'm like, oh, hi, father. Hi, father. So it's one reason I'm thinking about these interesting stuff, because they're connected now. They trust each other enough. They could be part of that group, and everyone gets kind of a voice. They've lowered their inhibitions. But then the same thing is true in the scriptures, as this is what kind of got me thinking along these lines, is that there are several instances in scripture where someone gets something from our Lord, because they made themselves heard, where it was, for example, the blind Bartimaeus, who is yelling out to the Lord, son of David, have mercy on me. And everyone tells him to be quiet. Like, why do they care? Why do they want him to stop talking? He's blind. Like, why not let him speak? He can't see. Or the woman that's coming up to our Lord, asking him to heal her daughter, or the woman with the hemorrhage, and they get rebuked by the apostles, because they're trying in their own minds, to suppose, to protect the Master. But the only reason that they get a gift from the Lord is because they push themselves, despite whatever the mores were, despite whatever the expectations were of the people around them, not to make a fool of themselves. They were willing to make a fool of themselves. We know, in that respect, that their insistence and willingness to make a fool of themselves is predicated on the notion that the person to whom they're appealing is good. And that, I think, makes a big difference, because you could see, in each one of the scriptural scenes that you referenced, the presumption of goodness on behalf of the petitioner. Yes. And that's quite different than people coming and just wanting something and making an insistent petition for something, but there is no predicate of your goodness. There's maybe sometimes just manipulation or sometimes insistence with zero assumption of goodness. But in their case, they certainly, it was at least clear to our Lord their intention. It was missed by the apostles in some cases. Back to what you said earlier, even the children come to him. Right. And they try to stop him. Right. And he says, let the children come to be and do not hinder him for it's just such as these, the kingdom of God belongs. Yeah. It's a hard lesson to live. In so many ways, much of our faith, and I was talking to the hotel class, by the way, they use the military letters system, right? That's what you use? Yes, for every year. To identify the class. We're on our eighth year, so it's the hotel class. That's eight hotel class. So we'll say the hotel class. Let's switch something up when it gets to Romeo, I suppose, but. Call them the Romans. The Romans, the Romans. The Romans, just a small thing there. What was I saying? So you're speaking to them this morning. Yeah, what else were we talking about? Well, about social fear and the presumption of goodness. Yes. On the part of the one, you're interlocutor, if you will. They're willing to put themselves out there because the presumption of the goodness of the speaker to whom they're speaking. Well, I've completely lost my thought. That's okay. Well, you're using that. It might turn us in another direction. Well, no, but there was, I had a really good thought. Oh, well, I'm sorry. It's lost. Well, while you're coming up with that, the corollary to all this that kept spinning in my mind was then speaking to the men, you know, about their devotions. Because there's an awful lot of ritual prayer that takes place in the seminaries you might imagine, which is our highest form of prayer, right? That which is ritualized such that we can all do it together as a body, which doesn't really admit of lots of individual sort of gestures or actions or praise or speaking or whatever. And that's fantastic. It trains them how to pray. It assists us to praise one body in whatever the ritual is, whether it's the highest form of the mass or the liturgy of the hours, which we spoke about before chanting or the rosary, et cetera. But I said to them, you know, we're rational animals. And as animals, right, you need to do things with your body when it comes to devotions. It's where we love processions. Where we love going over to that statue, kissing those feet. And the sort of Mediterranean countries were a bit more free with that sort of a thing. And I've always appreciated that being mostly Polish and German. But I always gravitated to their expressions, but didn't feel terribly comfortable doing that until I got a bit older. And I do love them being free outside of the liturgical prayer, just to be devout. Do things with your body. Don't ever be too proud and have social fear to not do something with your body. Like go over to the statue or they kneel down if you want to. You wanna go kiss that, go kiss it. You wanna put your face on the floor, on the ground, go do it, which has been interesting because after I gave that talk, I'm watching in chapel, we have some interesting expressions. But it's just they're letting themselves be devout in front of the Lord, not caring who sees them. It's kind of like David dancing in front of the Ark, right? Yeah, there you go. That's a great example. You know, and being ridiculed. Yeah, I probably might put a, put a, a batoonic on or something. Well, I just, I think I might stop it before he gets into the church place. Well, I think we would all feel flagged on a play there. We do have some social norms and courtesies. But, you know, although I cannot remember my previous point, you know, it'll be, it'll come out at some point. Well, it's one of those pearls that's, you know, it's lost in history. It's just back in the oyster. It will find a new way to open. It clammed up. It clammed right up. But you did have a great conversation with the guys and you can see, you know, how they're coming to be, eat more and more at ease. And it's really a wonderful process to watch. And I'm, I'm hitting it at increments, whereas you're seeing it daily. But it, as I said to these young men, you know, coming into the Seminary Formation Program in your late teens, early 20s, the assumption is that you are more mature than your peers. Because there's no way you can enter a program like this where that's not the case. So for us, that's a given. So if we don't give you credit for being more mature than your peers, please know that we just assume it. And that we are everything we're doing after that, pushing you and helping you grow and develop and mature begins with an assumption that is itself a compliment. That's great. That's a great thing to hear from you. Yeah, and, you know, it's true, as you can see. It's great to see them let loose and be more comfortable in their own skin. Well, it's interesting the way that men work, right? I mean, we would gravitate toward hierarchies anyway. Hierarchies are built into nature and not as a subject of suppression, but a kind of way of knowing where you are and who you're following and who's following you and what responsibilities you have, et cetera, et cetera. Men just not should create them. Like you watch them in the sports or whatever or anything we do outside. They just gravitate toward, all right, who's in charge of this and who's in charge of that and what responsibilities just order, right? As St. Thomas said, it's the office of the wise men to order things. And it's been interesting this year because we have the new PPF, the Program for Precious Formation, which requires us to have a priest that's just for them in terms of formation, which has created another layer because now we have Father Becker and he's there that call him the Proprietorik Pater, the father. So with half a dozen men. Right, well, yeah, there's eight guys and a priest. And then, but it created another layer such that I'm in a different place than I was last year. So there's more of a hotly. I'm always down there doing the nitty gritty stuff like washing, clipping your nails and making sure your shoes are, you know, but he's down there with strategic sort of formation conferences every week. And you're at the higher level. And I'm at a higher level just because it happens. The way it's ordered. So it's interesting when I say something to them now, it's taken differently than I would have made a year past. Because it's coming from a higher level for them. I see. And so when you come and say something to them, it's the same sort of thing. Interesting. Yeah, and so that trickles down to them with a great deal of effect. I think, okay, I'm looking at the roster here. You know, he's the head manager. The owner of the team is the bishop, but you're the head manager. And so if he says, my batting average is pretty decent. I got some job security. They were fantastic. And you're right. They're just a wonderful. It is funny to watch them kind of walk around because you can kind of see with Father Becker that he's like, you know, the father duck or a mother duck and all the ducklings following in tow. And he handles it so well. He's done great. It's been fantastic. They're all like water off the duck's back for him. They just, they don't seem to, they just all seem to flow nicely together. So it's good. I wish you could, I wish people listening could visit the seminary and see what it is that we see. Hopefully we're painting a nice picture for them to have a bit of a window. That's a good point. Well, before we go, I mean, one thing you can do just to get some glimpse into the life. Number one, please come. If you want to come, we'd love to have you. We'd love visitors here. We've had a thousand visitors last year. Amazing. That was incredible. Number two, we have a great website. That's a good point. Yeah, so it's stjcs.org, St. Joseph College Seminary.org. And on that website, you'll get to see an awful lot of interesting things relative to the interior life of the seminary and also kind of a video that puts together a glimpse of our program here. And you'll get to see Father Winslow in that video. And Father Cow. And Father Cow. And together we're... And they didn't put the gauze on the lens when they took those, unfortunately. No, we need those gels. The gels that soften everything, give more shape, more definition to your cheekbones. Oh, heavens. But there it is. So before we go, please visit us, visit the website and pray for the seminarians. My final thought before we head off is that as soon as we hit September 1st, my mind shifted toward autumn food. Now, the climate didn't shift, because it's still hot down here. It's true though. But it gave me license. Yes. I mean, I'm about four weeks away from Christmas music. But... You're that far. Well, maybe. But, you know, the autumn sense already. Well, I made a bull in years the other day. Did you? Because it was a slow cook. It's inside. You want your house to start smelling like food again. I made a soup. That's it. A hearty pork sausage soup. We have switched. Yeah, no, it's time. So I think we have to kind of look at the seasonal foods that are available. And for those who enjoy good food the way we do, do not underestimate the vegetables out there. You know, it's so often the case that everyone just looks at the proteins, you know, and looks at the dairies. But the vegetables. I mean, what you can do with vegetables and the types of vegetables. I mean, it's extraordinary. The flavors that can bring together and come on. I mean, just a medley of roasted vegetables that you put together with some rosemary, garlic, and olive oil, salt. Isn't it wonderful? And pepper. I'm getting really hungry. Yeah. I mean, those are fantastic. We got to go. Yeah, we got to go. God bless you all. Bye now. Makes me wanna screw to the screw. Thanks for listening to this episode of From the Rooftop. For updates about new episodes, special guests, and exclusive deals for From the Rooftop listeners, sign up at rooftoppodcast.com. And remember, for more great ways to deepen your faith, check out all the spiritual resources available at 10books.com. And we'll see you again next time, From the Rooftop.