 Hello, Happy Friday. I'm always thrilled to be here on a Friday. I'm a little biased. Muhy is one of my favorite guests to nerd out with, so really excited for today's conversation. We've got Julia Patrick's name on my face, but just to confuse you all for the rest of the day, but we are excited to have Muhy Kwaja with us today. Muhy is a trainer with Fundraising Academy and also co-founder of the American Muslim Community Foundation, full of great expertise and experience when it comes to our nonprofit community. So excited to learn from you today. And we're also excited to have the ongoing support from our amazing presenting sponsors. Thank you so very much to Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Fundraising Academy at National University, Bee Generous, Your Part-Time Controller, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Thought Leader, and the Nonprofit Nerd. These companies keep us going with conversations like the one that we are having here today with Muhy. But if you missed any episodes, any conversations, you can find us on Roku, YouTube, Amazon Fire TV, as well as Vimeo. And we're still working on showing up in a hologram form on your lap, on your, well, your couch right next to you. So maybe on your lap, who knows, but you can listen to us also wherever you stream your podcast. So make sure that you check us out there. So Fridays, as you know, Muhy, you have joined us on and off for many frayay's and what we do for those of you watching and listening. It's a series of questions that many of you have submitted to us, to the Nonprofit Show. We save these questions, we spread them out on the Fridays Ask and Answer episode, thanks to our underwriters, Fundraising Academy. So Muhy, let's get us started. I feel like this person, name withheld from San Francisco, probably did this intentionally thinking, Muhy might know me. He might know who's submitting this, although I do know San Francisco is a very large community. But the question we received here is, I want to join our local AFP chapter, which stands for the Association of Fundraising Professionals. But our CFO, our financial officer, just told me that they don't have memberships in the budget. I am super concerned about this and wondering if this is something others are also dealing with. What would you say to this name withheld, Muhy? You know, as it may be a common thing, you know, I wonder what their budget is overall. I wonder what perks they provide their staff members. But I know when I was at American Red Cross, I was very fortunate, even at Fundraising Academy, so fortunate. And even at American Muslim Community Foundation, as a co-founder, I was like, yo, we got to provide memberships to our staff for things that are relevant to them. You know, I think it fosters a sense of, you know, that your team has taken care of you and like allows you to grow outside of your daily job. And those networking opportunities from organizations like AFP are just so critical in being able to go to like the National International Convention and like local things and so helpful to get your mind out of the box network with other people who are experiencing the same things that you can bounce ideas off of. So I think it's something that is definitely worth its value. Maybe try to see if there's a scholarship from AFP that you can use or if you have a mentor that even asked them to support you in it. You know, I know sometimes getting to the conventions and things might be a little bit extra, but at least the membership like really make a case for your CFO, for your C-suite team, encourage them to provide it as a benefit to your staff. It'll have dividends not only for your organization but for the community that you serve. And if that's like you're on the board of an organization or anything else, the ripple effects will just be there. I'm really glad that you advocate for that. I've been probably a member since I've, you know, started in my fundraising career of so many different professional organizations. There have been times that I'm curious if you've seen this too where I've had to pay my own membership, you know, as an employee. Not often, I always like to have that in the budget and I was looking at a budget yesterday with a nonprofit and they did not have professional development, but I noticed that it was a line in their budget and I said, okay, so there's a line in your budget. How do we add money to that line, you know, and really looking at building that up because I love that you said those perks are really important, especially in our sector, right? When we are looking at, okay, we may not make top dollar, although I know you and I are both working on that. Like, how can we get us to top dollar, but where are there other ways that we can compensate and benefit, you know, our rock star talent and our rock star employees, which I think is everyone. I think we're all rock stars inside. So looking at that, and then you're right that, you know, the conferences that are available, but I also want to share with name held, you know, you can always get the newsletters and you can get the newsletters for free. There's so much content that comes into your email box from that. And I love, because I would not have thought about this movie, is really looking at, okay, is there a sponsorship available, which they're very well maybe, and is there someone that might sponsor your membership? So it could be, you know, someone in your community that believes so strongly in this, that they'll say, you know what, I will underwrite your professional membership for that. So thinking outside the box is definitely a worthwhile, but we wish you the best name withheld. Send us a message. Let us know if you were able to get this sponsored, because we would love to see this in organizational budgets. I think it's really important. So good luck. We are here to support you in that. Janet from Baltimore sends us a question wanting some advice. Is it an odd thing to invite perspective or even current donors to outside social events? I have a donor who loves art and I would like to take her to an art show. We serve the healthcare sector, so there is no link, but I think she would like this. Ooh, what do you say to that to Janet? Janet's a thinker. I like it. You know, this is definitely something that as major gift officers, development people, we should be looking at how can we create and steward a relationship that's going to strengthen their bond, not only with you as an individual, but with your organization. And even though it's a cross-sector event, the fact that you thought of them, the fact that you thought of that this is something that I would like to spend time with you doing, imagine the conversation you're going to have there. You're going to learn so much more about this person, their passions and everything like that. So yeah, that's a winner for me. I think that's a winner too. I love the creativity, the thinker that Janet is as well. There's so many opportunities for this and I think that's really connecting at that return on relationship level because you're going deeper with the donor. You're going deeper with that relationship. The depth and breadth doesn't have to be solely to the mission. I remember once, and I'd love to hear if you have any personal anecdotal stories, I was working with a donor who loved yachting. I saw some, I don't know, newsletter, electronic newsletter that was talking about boating and yachting and I was like, okay, I know nothing about this, but I saw it. I'm going to just send it over with a little note that says, I saw this. It made me think of you. I hope you're enjoying your time on the water as well. It was not an ask, right? It was nothing to do with the mission. It was just, hey, I had this moment and it connected me to something that you are so passionate about and I was just thinking about you and wanted to share. Do you have any stories like that, Muhy, where like something just kind of, you know, activated your memory with a donor and you've reached out to them? Yeah, definitely. And especially if there was a donor at Red Cross, you know, tech companies getting profiled in the news or this, that, the other, or even something specific about them in the news and just, you know, sharing with them, hey, I saw this. Congratulations on this recognition or anything like that. And it's always well received. One thing I would say is like, nine times out of 10, my donor meetings were typically at a restaurant or at their house or at an office space. But those one out of 10 times, they were these creative type of events where it was something that I thought that they would be interested in or a seminar where they came to learn about an event at the Red Cross and like learn about different services that we provide or even taking a brisk walk at 7.30 a.m. in the morning, because that's the only time that they have. And really just being able to, you know, share those different moments, I think, strengthen the bond and made it more unique in a dynamic relationship. And it was the communication during those meetings, whether it was a lunch or one of these unique types of events, but the connection, the cordialness, the banter about life and then also about getting serious with the organization and what's being done. Just great conversation overall and wanting to reconnect and catch up with the person. And that's what makes it exciting. Yeah, I agree. You know, it reminds me of a story I heard recently where there was these two women meeting. I had nothing to do with the mission, but I just love the story of this. And one of them was eating a perfectly cut apple. And the person said, how did you get this so perfectly cut? And they said, you know, well, don't you have one of those apple cutters? You just slide it right down. And she's like, no, I've never seen this. Literally a few days later in the mail, guess what she received? An apple cutter, right? Like it can be silly like that. Like just something that's really nominal, but I think that really is thoughtful. It's so thoughtful. And it goes to the active listening, right? The active listening. And now guess what? Every time she eats an apple, she's probably going to think about this person. So good luck, Janet. We hope that we gave you, you know, some some good advice here when it comes to attending this art show with a current donor. You know, it doesn't mean that just because you're going to an event outside of your mission that you cannot talk about your mission and how it might connect and relate who knows to the art, art evokes a lot. So there's no telling where that conversation could go. One final thought on the slicer. Like I love things that make life easier. And like an apple slicer is one of those things. So I hope it like Revan Lucianized her for their perspective on, you know, how to eat an apple. And I really hope that it became like their go to gift for other people to bring that joy and happiness into something else's life. That's a great point. Yeah, that's that's such a great point. I love that too. So well, we're going to Tampa, Florida right now. And for those of you that are watching live, you know, that Hurricane Ian has been also visiting Ben and Tampa, Florida. So we really hope that all of you are doing well in the Florida area and the Carolinas. So but Ben did submit this question. Since the pandemic, we have attracted more out of state donors. Do you have any opinions on starting support chapters outside the area? I know universities do this with their alums, but we don't have that type of affiliation that makes this a logical choice. Any thoughts on this movie for Ben? Yeah, I love this because like, you know, you can keep thinking of like ideas out of the box and how to engage them. And if your service area is like state local, maybe it's people who used to live in your community, but now are outside of your community. But the thing that comes to mind with this is, you know, really thinking about how to scale, right? Like, does it make sense to go chapters or what's maybe a step before that? Like looking at, could you do a national council? Could you do a state by state type of small council that's like a local board? Maybe they don't have the full jurisdiction of your state's board, but it gets them involved. It gets them their peak, their interest, and there's a way to engage them and deepen the relationship. So there's a lot of ideas that are coming to mind around that. But I would say it's great to know who your donors are nationwide. And, you know, do the typical things like wealth screening, see who they are, like find more research about them. Is it worth having a discovery meeting, move them through the life cycle of donor engagement? Like, what are those things that can be done through the cost selling cycle at Fundraising Academy? And how can you engage them further in your mission? So I would support it, you know, maybe not right off the bat going to state chapters, but, you know, even if it's only five donors in a different state, figure out who they are, send them a letter, you know, engage them, see why they're supporting, because, you know, you might discover a nugget, you might discover a nugget that you didn't know before. And those things are so, those things are priceless. Yeah, they are priceless. I'm curious if you can dive a little deeper, Muhy, like I'm imagining we pull a report, you know, from our donor database, we're finding out their address. You and I talk about living nomadically, you get to do it a lot more than I can at this moment. But we also have many donors that live in different places, you know, seasonally. And so, you know, even though they may live full time, let's say, in, you know, in Florida, they could be moving somewhere else, you know, for another portion of that year. How do we go about kind of finding that information? Can you talk to us about that? Yeah, so the first thought that comes to mind is the USPS and COA, like National Change of Address. Yeah. And a lot of databases with a click of a button can do that for you. So that's why it's so important to invest in a CRM. But honestly, whitepages.com, don't sleep on it. It works. You know, you got to kind of know the age of the donor. You got to kind of know a few details. But oh, I found out so much information from whitepages.com for my donors. And those little tidbits, like, you know, bounce mail comes back, it says, cannot forward. Type it up. Look at it. Look in the little Google machine and you'll find it. Like, those things, that's part of the hustle and the grind and the nitty gritty and getting into the details. And I love those things. When I can get more accurate information into my CRM, I sleep better at night. So, yeah. I love that. You definitely need that tape between your glasses as well. You know, I always have my nerd glasses close by, but you're right. Like really looking into the data. There's so much on the internet. The whitepages, as you said. So it doesn't have to be costly. Might take a little bit of time. But for those of us that really love doing that deep dive and research, I find it to be a lot of fun. It sounds like you do as well. Another anecdotal story which I feel is important to share here. I was traveling this summer. I was in Park City, Utah, in one of the local nonprofits in my community where I live in Metro Phoenix, Arizona, was having a house party in Park City. And I happened to be there the same time of the house party. And the organization went out of their way. First of all, they saw from social media that I was not in Phoenix, that I was in Park City. They went out of their way to reach out to me to let me know that they were having a house party and they would be more than happy for me to join if it fit my schedule. That was amazing. Like I felt, I felt seen, I felt valued. I felt like, you know, they really went above and beyond to make sure that I was aware of this event in the community where I was visiting and extended this invitation to a smaller intimate party, which, guess what, made me feel a lot more connected to the mission. So. So I have to ask you, did you end up making a gift? I did. Of course I did. Right? And I absolutely made a gift. And what I loved is they had a match donor that was three timesing the gift. Three times. However you give, multiply by three. And it was like a no-brainer, right? Like, of course I'm going to make this gift. You just wind and dine to this beautiful home. And I just thought, you know, things like that is really, I think, what goes so very far. And I think, Ben, you know, you've gotten some great insight from Muhy, a personal story for me. And you're right. I do think universities do this by and by and far, you know, in a phenomenal way. I know my alum here, even though I graduated from school in South Carolina, they still get us together here in Arizona. And that's a lot of fun. Yeah. When I, when I noticed development professionals getting it right, it's like, here's a handshake. Like you got this, like, how do you, like, I'm really happy to be stewarded by you and feel seen and all of those things because that's what I try to do. And if I can feel that feeling, I know it's a, it's a good match and that they're a good fundraiser. So yeah, it's like a recognized game. That's right. That's right. And we applaud it, right? It's like, okay, absolutely. And I think that's, that's really good to see in here. We've got one more question in today from Chandra, San Diego, California. And Chandra writes in to ask this question, do you have any recommendation as to how many donors and prospective donors a development officer should have in their portfolio? That's a loaded question, Moohee. Take it away, my friend. I've got a lot of thoughts about this one. Oh my God. We only have nine minutes, but we're gonna make it. Oh, that's, that's plenty. Don't worry. Yeah. I still like, I started out right out of college in development, very blessed with an experience at the University of Michigan called Development Summer Internship Program. And DSIP was like the holy grail for me. It was jumping in. Like we got four days of work within the university. I was an alumni relations. And then on Fridays, we had a class on philanthropy. So we heard from major gift officers, we heard from donors, we heard from alumni from, you know, how the university fundraised billions of dollars in their campaigns. And I started out at a really small nonprofit in Michigan, after college. And, you know, I was a one person development team. I cycled through a few nonprofits like that and then got to the Red Cross and was like, Oh, this is how it's supposed to be done. And then oddly enough, even at Red Cross, as a major gift officer, and then later a senior philanthropy officer, there were times when, yes, the recommended amount was like 250 or less. There were times I had 600 people in my portfolio. It was longers. Somebody left on the staff, somebody, you know, absorbed another portfolio. We had an influx of donors that 5k plus, like a lot of noise. What I would say and what I would recommend is no more than 150 people. Like, you're really not going to be able to get to know everybody in your portfolio if it's going to be larger than that. And even at 150, you're not going to be able to meet all of those people. So, yes, keep them in your portfolio for like three to six months. Send them a few notes, this that the other, if they don't respond but are continuing to give, maybe still hold them in your portfolio. If they're not giving and they're not responding, cycle them out, bring in a new batch, do the same thing over again, introduce yourself. Like those intro emails, that's like what I would get excited about because I could put my personality to it, like share how excited I was. And of course, if you're new, you get that like, I'm the new person. But then also like, yeah, the portfolio is the way to go. Deep in those relationships, keep track of your metrics and what donors, you were retained, what donors increased, what donors did not give. And yeah, I would say no more than 150 in your portfolio. And that also depends on like, what is the major gift at your organization? How many donors do you have? Like how many staff members do you have? Yeah, I get it. Like you might need to tear your portfolio if you're the one person there, but like, who are those people that you're regularly reaching out to? Are they new donors? Are they top donors? Are they, where are they in the mix? I could sit on a soapbox for hours, Jared, but I'll save you the pain. But yeah, I think there needs to be no more than 150 in a solid portfolio and do the prospecting, qualify them, get them into your portfolio and see how you can increase their giving. Like this is what I'm so passionate about as a major gift officer and development person. I nerd out on it and geek out about that retention and increasing the donor gifts. And yeah, it's the best. Yeah, me too. Well, you can stand on your soapbox all day long with me. I'll be right there on my next to you. I love that you mention no more than 150 because I see it all too often as have you where it's just more and more donors into a portfolio. And for those of you that are saying, I don't have a portfolio, what's a portfolio, right? It's like, it's your digital file of the donors that you personally are working, engaging. Mui mentioned the phases of the Fundraising Academy donor cycle, which I love. I love the phases that's offered there. I've even taken those phases, moved them into donor databases to have that true moves management for each donor, for each portfolio looking at that. So I think it's important, as you said, not too many because you're really not going to be able to have that level of engagement to see that return on relationship because certainly, Chandra, you're not going to be able to take 600 plus people to an art show as one of our previous guests wanted to do. So one unique thing that like when Red Cross switched from a major gift officer model to like a philanthropy officer model and like associate philanthropy officer, senior philanthropy officer, development relations officer, donor relations officer, and like that was their strategy for annual fund people. So yeah, that person had almost 1500 people in their portfolio, but it wasn't to have meetings. It wasn't to do all of these other things. The strategy was a little different. So yes, at the end of the day, are there different ways to make a larger portfolio work? Yes, but the metrics should not be the same. The outcomes will not be the same, but you can still try to do frequent letters, handwritten notes, emails, all of those things to create a relationship and phone calls and all of those things. But I would say it depends on what segment of your organization within development you're focusing on like corporate foundations, individuals, all of those numbers can look different. That's a good point. And let's add videos in there too, right? Like that's a great way to send and get personal, have someone know who you are, engage with them at that at a deeper level. Moe, again, I just love nerding out with you, my friend. One day I know we met at AFP, so for the viewer, yeah, that mentioned, you know, having that AFP membership, it's worth its gold or worth its weight in gold for sure. The, you know, relationships that you build with like-minded individuals. So, Moe Hikwaja, you've got a lot of letters behind your name. So, MPA, CFRE and CFRM, you're also a trainer with Fundraising Academy. And I also love to give you a shout out for being the co-founder here at the American Muslim Community Foundation. So thanks for all that you do, all your valuable time expertise that you pour into the community to strengthen it around the globe. We are so lucky to have you here in the sector. So, thank you so much, my friend. And I want to say thank you to our presenting sponsors. We are so grateful to have Fundraising Academy at National University underwrite our Friday, or as I refer to them, Friday, ask and answer. Also, each and every one of these sponsors here that keep our show going day in and day out to have these high-level conversations and to answer your questions. So, thank you to Blumerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Be Generous, Your Part-Time Controller, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Thought Leader, Nonprofit Nerd, and another shout out again for Fundraising Academy for allowing us to have these questions. Again, if you have any questions for us here at the Nonprofit Show, send them to us. I go to the website. You can send us an email. All of the good ways. We're very active on social media. So, send those in and we will answer them each and every week on our dedicated Friday, ask and answer. Thanks to Fundraising Academy. Moohee, safe travels. I know that you've got a lot going on in your next 24, 48 hours. And for those of you that are embarking onto your weekend, I hope that you too have a fantastic weekend. Join us back here on Monday. And until then, we want to remind you, our viewers, our listeners, our guests and ourselves to stay well so we can do well. Thanks, everyone. Have a fantastic weekend.