 We're glad to know you're still there and watching Breakfast on that Plus TV Africa. We're being joined by Professor Sani Faghe, who is going to be looking at our first hot topic. I remember that the Minister of Foreign Affairs has said that the Tinaboo Administration, there is a lot of investment that is coming into the country in this present administration. So he's going to help us make sense of that, or tell us what he feels about that statement. Good morning, and welcome to the program, Professor. Thank you. Good. Okay. So this statement by the Minister of Foreign Affairs is what we're trying to look at now. Maybe some other people have different ideas about what this present administration is giving us as gains to the country. He's saying that a lot of investments are coming into the country in this present administration. What is your take on that? Yeah, my take on it is that this, as he said, is a proposal or rather an ambition that investments are coming. Now, for that, we cannot say he's saying the truth or not, because he said they are coming. He hasn't said that they have come. So maybe we are likely going to see some investment. But so far, the government has not been up and doing and trying to attract such an investment. That is, once in a second, investors are very sensitive to the environment that they are coming in. And so the government hasn't done much on the issue of insecurity. There is also the issue of corruption, which is a ban on Nigerian political system. And also there is this issue of multiple taxation. Even though the government is saying something about multiple taxation, but these are all things that the investors will look at before they come in. So I think what he said is just raising our hopes that we are going to see investment. But so far, I don't think there is anything concrete that will actually actualize such an investment in Nigeria. Well, he was so confident and said that the country is witnessing. He didn't say we witness. He said it is witnessing investment so much in this administration. So the confidence he exuded is what surprised us, whether there are some things that we didn't see or we are not seeing that you can see. But you're saying he's a prayer is a hope that something good will happen in this thing. Well, he also talked about Aliku Dangute signing a $500 million deal. He talked about another one with the BUA. So he was very confident and he said in the past two weeks we've had about $2 billion in investment. But now you're saying something different that is just hopeful and it's not for certain. Yes, this is a hope to me because we are in this very Nigeria with him. And we haven't seen such investment. After all, the one who is mentioning domestic investors, they are already having their businesses here in Nigeria. So whether you count them or not, they are already on ground. They are Nigerians. So the idea is when they talk of investment, everybody's mind will run to foreign investors coming to Nigeria. Not Nigerians spending money already, it is here, they have their own businesses. So it's nothing new. So I think this is more of political talks that will now read the hopes of Nigerians that yes, the good thing is coming, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. But when you mention this one, you are just justifying what already exists that they have these businesses. After all, nobody hopes that they will pull up and close shop and go. So for them to say that they are putting this amount of money, I don't see there is anything new to that statement. But do you see any light at the end of the tunnel? Because the president has permitted the word boosted that he will find his way into the Guinness Book of Records as the president that started from day one by implementing policies. Have you seen any policy that might give us this kind of investments that you are seeing? Probably the Minister of Foreign Affairs is hoping that we are going to get in this country. Have you seen a policy direction that you think will bet these huge investments that he's talking about in the nearest future in Nigeria? No, actually I haven't seen it, except for the globetrotting going here and there with the hope that they will attract the investors. That is what we have seen so far. But in terms of creating an abland environment where investors will come, I think we haven't seen anything in that direction. Secondly, if you are to weigh what has been saying, so many promises and nothing is done. Look at even the minors in agreement with the labor which was supposed to have been signed and sealed and done within a month, but after now things are dragging. If not for that crisis in Emo, I don't know whether we are going to be plunged into another labor strike or crisis, and also look at the issue of palliatives. Look at so many things that have been promised in the past seven months, our hopes were raised that the government will hit ground running on the very day it was sworn in. But we are now seven months, all we have are bags of our packages of our promises and not much on the ground to be seen. Okay, well the medium term expenditure framework was approved now and one of the plan was to borrow 7.8 trillion Naira in 2024. I don't know how that will contribute to the economy or will mar the economy in your own opinion. Is that a good thing for us? Borrowing of 7.8 trillion Naira for 2024? Well I think it will mar the economy because after all like the saying goes, you can't be doing the same thing and expect different results. We know one of the major problems of Nigeria is this debt. We can't be going deeper and deeper into debt and they expect that a miracle will happen. After all the simplest thing that shows is that now for every Naira that Nigeria gets, we spend about 7.95 crore on debt services. So if you just borrow and now you earn something to pay debt services, I think you cannot go out of this debt trap. Instead we are going deeper and deeper. You see in other climes when countries have such problem what they do is to try to look inwards, cut expenses, unnecessarily expenses and now try to adjust even in Nigeria that what we used to have in the past. And now if you look at even the medium term expenditure, I mean this quite short budget that has been looked at what has been put in terms of unnecessary expenditures. And so these are the expenditures that will not generate anything. Instead they will consume the mega resources that we have and yet we go and borrow. It's just like somebody borrowing and going to buy a car or a house or a dress, he will be clean and you know out but at least when the time comes you wouldn't have the capital. So I think this is a disastrous way. This is a dangerous way of going by borrowing and borrowing more that will put us deeper and deeper into the debt trap. Okay so how do we rebuild the fundamentals to ensure that we are not borrowing as much as we currently are right now? Yeah what we do is one like I said earlier on we have to cut our expenses, have a realistic budget based on the strengths of our economy. Secondly we try as much as possible to be safe and reliant. After all when we go to Saudi Arabia what we are looking for is alone to revive our refineries. Then why can't we look at these issues? Okay then also we block leakages, for example we depend much heavily on oil and yet a great percentage of it is being stolen. These are issues that we have to address in order to get ourselves out of the debt drop. But going to borrow is just like putting it in a two-way pocket, you put it on the top and it will sit down because corruption is there and then the waste stages are there and we don't look at things. And the other way also that we are looking at putting more taxes, more taxes that you know that one is also killing the economy because by the time you put taxes on investors what they will do is they will be capital plight, they will just leave your place and go to where they will get better deal. So I think what we are doing we are going in the wrong direction. Okay but what you are saying is we should look in what and see what we can do but one of the resolutions of the senate while they were approving this mid-term expenditure framework and fiscal policy is that everything that is locally produced must not, they approve that it must not be imported anymore. If something can be locally produced it must not be imported anymore. And I am asking myself what are those items, will we stop importation of cars because we have a local manufacturer here, will we stop importation of rice and everything because we have those things locally produced here. But the question is, is that one of the solutions you have profiled now because you said we should look in what and see how we can produce things as well, is that a good thing to say by the senate? No I think what they said is a contradiction. Look at the example that you give about cars, okay, they are the same people who say they don't want the national, they prefer foreign cars even in the budget. So you can't say one thing and do another and then you expect miracles to happen. If we want they have to lead by example, the leaders have to lead by example and they consume our own homemade locally made products but you cannot say something and then at the same time you prefer foreign goods and then you extract the common man to do it. What are all, who consume most of what we produce, is it not the elite, it is not the few worldly people, the poor man doesn't have the capacity to consume, so those who are consuming are saying we do it and then they go and they prefer foreign goods. So talking about the investment that we're supposedly witnessing, the huge investment, do you think Nigeria right now is currently attractive to these foreign investors coming in? No, I don't think we are attractive because like I said earlier on, investors are very sensitive to the environment and look at what happens, there is nothing that has changed in terms of what scares investors, one you don't have insecurity, two there is a problem of corruption, three there is a problem of multiple taxation and four there is a lack of infrastructure, you don't have electricity, you don't have all the resources that you need for the industries to keep on going, we didn't address any of these and then you extract people who come and invest their money, I think we are pulling ourselves if we don't think we have to create the environment before they will come. Yeah, but now they mentioned two investors that are local and you said these are people who will not just up and run away but so while we're trying to look inwards even if we do not have these foreign investors come in, what can be done to encourage local investors so that our economy could grow because for instance China locked as it were their country for like 30 years and when they opened their borders and began to trade with other countries and you know became liberal to trade, we saw that China had developed so much that a lot of countries that they began with could not measure up to them. So how do we look inwards to make sure that internally or locally we have investors investing within the country? You see it is easy, it's not just you lock up but when you lock up try to create the enabling environment, okay in terms of the infrastructure you develop it, in terms of the human capital you develop it, here we are you know we actually everything that will have been the engine of growth, we are killing it in one way or another, okay. Look at the educational sector, look at the infrastructure, look at you know get taxation and other things so when you lock and you didn't do anything positive to create such situation I think you will end up stabbing yourself instead of you know getting your people out of it, okay, I think that's what we're going to do with, we'll just thank you so much for joining us, we've been speaking to Sani Fagge, we've been talking about Nigeria witnessing huge investments on the Presidentinupuz administration said by the foreign affairs minister and I think we've just had insights on what we can do making sure that we have good infrastructure, security and all of those things to make Nigeria attractive for these foreign investors to come in. Thank you so much Sani, thank you for joining us. Thank you very much for having me. Thank you, okay we'll go on a quick break and when we're back we'll be talking about the 440 million Naira SUV where the legacy government has said it's not that, it's not as controversial as we think, we'll be speaking to another guest in our next hot topic, stay with us.