 i gael i gael ei ddweud o wrth ymlaen oherwydd ei wneud. ein moment gyda'r ffordd yn ddiddordeb. Yn gyflawn i'n cyfrifonau, mae'r ffordd yn yn ymwneud yn ddiddordeb yn ddiddordeb yn gweithio'i cyffredinol. Yn gyflawn i'r ffordd yn ddiddordeb yn y cyfrifonau, mae'r ffordd yn ddiddordeb yn ddiddordeb yn y ddiddordeb yng nghymru yn ddiweddol. Mae'r cyfrifonau erbyn i chi gwaith i'w ffordd yn y cyffredinol. ond gael agonomau ac donwyddiol yn rhoi rai scopau i gwybodaeth ddiweddigol i unrhyw ddodd ar hyn gwaith. Ond, yn cael eu greflawn, eraill y Cymru wedi'i gwneud efo fod upgraded dyn nhw'r oeddym niol ffledd o'r pethau Llywodraedd neu'i gael ffledd mwy o hyd o'r gwagfeteilion, mae'n gofynu chi i gael gwaith gweithwyr o'r pethau o'r UK. Ar saeth 2011, mae nhw ddifrif i mwy o'r 11 cwm am y rhan o'r 221,000 oeddiw ychydig o'r o'r 5-year target of 30,000 additional affordable homes. Unlike Westminster, the Scottish Government is committed to preserving and expanding Scotland's social housing stock as part of creating a fairer society. We are making best use of our existing housing stock by abolishing the right to buy. Over 15,000 of the 21,000 additional homes that are already delivered are for social rents, and can be a home for life. Since 2009, with the help of Scottish Government funding, over 4,000 new council houses have been delivered, and after the last Scottish Labour Liberal Administration, which built just six council houses in the four years to March 2007, this is a truly transformation in council house building, our team intervention. I thank the minister for taking intervention. You mentioned 4,000 council houses being built in the last few years, but in the last single year of 2007 of the Liberal Labour Coalition that you mentioned, there were 4,100 housing association houses built alone. I would remind the member and all that the figures are very clear that under this administration we have built more housing association houses and more council houses than any previous administration, and the facts stand for that. I will quote the figures as we move on. Over the seven-year period, we have built more social housing than the previous administration, and that cannot be disputed. Right now, affordable homes are also being delivered across Scotland using new innovative financing approaches. Throughout the country, I have seen at first hand the positive difference that this is making. It has been for me a great pleasure to meet families across Scotland who tell me how delighted they are to be living in a new high-quality national housing trust home. The Scottish Government plans to spend over £1.7 billion to deliver our target of 30,000 affordable homes during the lifetime of this Parliament, with investment already having passed £1 billion since April 2011. Shelter Scotland, in its briefing, is calling for the Government to commit at least an additional £200 million in this year's budget to social rented housing, which they say would go a long way towards meeting the existing target of 30,000 affordable homes. Is that something the minister is going to be pushing the Cabinet Secretary for Finance on? What we have said is that we have set a target of 30,000 affordable homes during the lifetime of this target, but we have ambition for housing in Scotland, and that is a baseline target and one that we would hope to exceed. That is our target, and we have built that target up with taking the sector on board. We are always looking at new ways to increase housing supply because that is what we have set out to do. We have an ambition for housing in this country, but housing does not only provide much-needed homes for people on the length and breadth of Scotland, but it also supports an estimated 8,000 jobs each year. The latest statistics confirm that we remain on track to deliver our current target by March 2016, and we will continue to give priority to housing supply by maintaining our commitment to the delivery of affordable homes. As I said to Mary Fee a moment ago, we have an ambition for housing in Scotland. The existing 6,000 per year target is not the height of our ambition, it is a baseline and one that we hope to exceed. We are also committed to improving housing quality initiatives, such as the Scottish housing quality standard and the energy efficiency standard for social housing, and we will continue to improve the quality of the social rented sector. We know, for example, that more than 90 per cent of social rented properties now have insulated lofts, and those measures are vital in helping to reduce carbon emissions and critically tackle fuel poverty. I am delighted to announce today £4.5 million of grant funding to 24 councils and RSLs to enable them to retrofit energy efficiency measures to their stock. This investment will mean that a further 1,677 households across Scotland will benefit from warmer homes that are cheaper to heat. We are also turning our focus to the private sector. We aim to consult in spring next year on proposals for the introduction of energy efficiency standards in the private sector. The Government's focus is on taking the actions that are right for Scotland's economy and housing markets. As part of that, I am clear about the importance of working to ensure that Scotland can boast a strong and sustainable private house-building industry. I am under no illusions about the scale of the challenge that the industry has faced in recent years and, indeed, that many house builders continue to face. In response, the Scottish Government has taken a range of actions to support activity, bring forward much-needed new homes and protect jobs. We have developed and backed innovative new partnership approaches such as the My New Home scheme and unlocked new sites through the house-building infrastructure loan fund. We have invested a very significant £275 million in our Help to Buy Scotland scheme, including an additional £50 million of funding allocated this financial year. Since the launch of Help to Buy Scotland last September, it has been a huge success clearly meeting its aim of boosting the effective demand for housing. Over 3,000 houses have already been bought through Help to Buy, and many more will be supported through the remainder of this year and next. I will take an intervention. Can you confirm whether any money is left in the budget for Help to Buy or whether it has all been spent, as some reports suggest? The budget for this financial year for Help to Buy has been spent and the Scottish Government has agreed to back every application that was received before the cut-off date, I think that it was in August. However, builders are taking applications for the next round of funding and £100 million has already been committed for the next financial year, so applications are still being taken. Since 2007, the Scottish Government has helped more than 8,700 people to access home ownership under its low-cost initiatives for first-time buyers, shared equity schemes. We are doing what we can to support the house building industry, encourage people into home ownership both in the social rented sector and through other tenures. I also want to say a bit about homelessness because as Minister for Housing and Welfare, I am proud that all unintentionally homeless people now have a legal right to settle the accommodation. However, that is far too important an issue for any complacency and we are continuing to focus on helping local authorities and their partners to prevent homelessness before it occurs. Homelessness has been falling in Scotland and in 2013-14, homelessness applications were 8 per cent lower than in the same period the previous year. I am pleased that those reductions have continued in the latest quarterly statistics to June 2014, which were published only this morning. Local authorities have identified work in taking forward the housing options approach to homelessness prevention as the main reason for the reduction in applications. The Scottish Government continues to support the local authority-led housing options hubs in developing their strategies around homelessness prevention. We have provided £800,000 to the hubs over 2010-14 and are providing a further £150,000 of on-going support for 2014-15. However, all of what we are doing is happening against the background of UK welfare reform, which poses a threat to the progress that we have made. We are engaged with work with our partners to measure the impact on local authorities by costing what is required to deliver a reasonable standard of temporary accommodation, which has been affected considerably by welfare reform. As well as supporting people into sustainable homes, this Government is protecting vulnerable tenants from the impacts of the most damaging welfare reforms. We have invested £55 million over two years mitigating the bedroom tax, protecting 71,000 households affected from this iniquitous and unjust measure. The bedroom tax also threatened the financial security of the social landlords, who are such an important part of our housing supply programme. The policy of this Government to provide secure, sustainable homes for the long-term was under threat. The Housing Scotland Act 2014 will help to improve housing in the social, private rented and owner-occupied sectors, benefiting individuals, families and communities across the country. The legislation was developed in close consultation with a wide range of stakeholders and, as passed, commanded the broad support of this chamber. In building this consensus, it demonstrated the Government's commitment to working with stakeholders. I intend to continue that dialogue as we develop secondary legislation and the draft guidance to implement the provisions in the act. In May last year, the Scottish Government published its strategy for the private rented sector. It set out our vision of a sector that provides good-quality homes, high-management standards, inspires consumer confidence and encourages growth by attracting increased investment. As part of that strategy, I established a stakeholder group to examine the suitability and effectiveness of the private rented sector tenancy regime. The group reported in May and recommended that the current and short-assured tenancies should be replaced by a new private tenancy. I accepted the recommendation and planned to consult this autumn on proposals for a new private tenancy. The 20 aims of a new tenancy will be greater security for tenants and proper safeguards for landlords, lenders and investors. As I confirmed during the Parliament stage 3 consideration of the 2014 housing act, the consultation will also explore issues relating to rent levels. Rent setting currently forms part of the existing assured tenancy system, so it makes sense to consider this and how it might work as part of our proposals for a new system. Subject to the outcome of the consultation, I intend to introduce a bill in the current parliamentary term to establish a new tenancy regime. Presiding Officer, this Scottish Government has focused on the current housing challenges and also what is important in the long term. I can assure the chamber that equally important is our collaborative approach working with housing organisations as delivery partners. We have strong partnerships with councils, housing associations, groups and with the wider housing sector. We will continue to listen to key players and respond to what they need from Government. This Scottish Government is wholeheartedly up for that challenge and in November we will be holding a Scottish housing event which will bring together a large number of housing stakeholders, in fact more than 300 of them, to focus on the delivery of the Government's housing strategies. That will ensure that we have effective actions designed to meet current circumstances and a five-year plan for delivering those actions. Finally, Presiding Officer, I want to thank all the stakeholders for their input to the work because together we can make a lasting difference to the lives of people and to communities across Scotland. I believe that the time that I have been in this position that stakeholders also have that vision and that view for Scotland, we all want to get the very best and make sure that everyone in Scotland can live in a home that is warm, safe and they can afford and is suitable to their needs. That is the vision of this Scottish Government for housing in Scotland and we will continue to strive to reach that because I am aware that for those who have not yet got a house that that might not be consolation but we strive for that. Our ambition is that everyone should have a house that meets their needs. I move the motion. I move the motion. Thank you very much. I now call on Mary Fee to speak to and move amendment 11023.1. Ten minutes please. Thank you Presiding Officer. With the referendum decisively concluded, we thank the Scottish Government for bringing today's motion to the chamber. Other than the debates regarding the most recent housing bill and debates that Scottish Labour brought to the chamber, first the housing minister has achieved in securing a housing debate since her appointment two years ago. I welcome the Scottish Government's newly found focus in housing now that the Scottish people have overwhelmingly supported our place within the union and now we owe it to the Scottish people to work together to take the country forward and tackle the issues that face our people. The Government motion highlights a £1.7 billion spend in housing to make a huge cut greater than the cut imposed by Westminster and also compares Scottish house building rates with those of England and Wales. First of all, can I just point out that I thought that now whereby, September 18, we would be rid of the constant comparisons across all portfolios of government, not just in housing. The motion also acknowledges the 2014 housing act and, if I may, I would like to go back to what the minister stated in June at the passing of the bill. In referencing the Government's housing strategy, Homes Fit for the 21st century, the minister said that it included a number of measures that required legislation and the bill fulfills our commitment. If the bill fulfills commitment, it only goes to prove that there is no direction or vision for housing as Audit Scotland and Homes for Scotland have previously suggested. I cannot support the Government motion and find that our amendment exposes the reality of housing in Scotland today. It is clear that demand for housing is rising across all sectors. A higher population places a massive burden on many services, yet few of those services are as crucial as the right to housing. Over two seven-year periods, one where Labour was in administration in 1999 to 2007, and the current administration, Labour's record on housing house building far outstrips that of the SNP. However, I do reckon—certainly, yes. I think that the member should be clear that, when she is referring to the house building under the Labour Administration, that with less social housing build, less commitment that the Government is talking about, private house building pre-recession, and that we are still outperforming the rest of the UK even after the recession in house building in Scotland. The member is talking about pre-recession private house building. Can I just say an answer to the Minister's intervention that under Labour from 2003 to 2007, nearly 20,000 public sector and housing association properties were built. Housing supply increased by an average of 27,000 homes per year. Last year, the SNP built 14,781 homes, the lowest since 1947, and there were fewer socially rented homes coming to the market in 2013 to 2014 than in 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011. If you choose not to believe me, those are spice figures. I recognise that Labour could have gone further in social housing, and I give credit to the Scottish Government for building the level of social housing that is done in a period of global recession and recovery. However, the fact remains that Scotland is facing a housing crisis, whether the SNP wants to hear about it or not. The rising housing demand is anticipated to continue for the next 20 years, and many experts in this field stress that a renewed focus is required. The recent report building a better Scotland by the Royal Institute for Chartered Surveys, Scottish Housing Commission, is a striking read. The lead quote in the opening remark by Tom Barclay, the commission chairman, states, Our analysis suggests that it could be more than 20 years before there are enough new homes to meet the projected increase in households in any one year. The single illustration on that same introduction page also highlights why Scotland is facing a housing crisis. I recommend that members who have not done so read the report and get a full flavour of what I am talking about. House building across all sectors remains at record low levels. While the SNP celebrates a 5 per cent increase in new house completions in 2013-14, reality shows that new housing supply is 42 per cent less than before the recession. Again, I would like to make a bit of progress and then I will come back to you if that is okay. Again, I do recommend the Government for the levels that it has achieved during that period. I previously mentioned the recent housing bill and would like to give it another brief mention. The right to buy was rightly ended with the passing of the bill. However, Scottish Labour remains concerned that it does not cease for another two years. Sales of council houses rose by 26 per cent over the last year, and we expect that rise to continue until right to buy is finished. Demand for housing remains a serious issue for local authorities. Recent freedom of information requests show that waiting lists for social housing have increased in 10 out of 28 local authorities over the last five years. Areas such as Aberdeenshire, Argyllun Bute, Dundee, Fife, Midlothian, Murray and Perthon Kinross are experiencing longer waiting lists than in 2009, and the majority of those are SNP-controlled. The emphasis emphasises the strong link between high demand and low supply, which we are witnessing, and why the sector is warning us about future supply. The RICS report also talks about regeneration of communities by stating that the rate of improvements to social housing is falling and neighbourhood renewal schemes are small in scale and contrast to a decade ago. Building on the new communities is and will continue to be a focus of Scottish Labour leading to 2016 and beyond. Investment in Scotland's housing in its communities has always been a central priority for Labour due to the creation of job and apprenticeships, as well as the clearly stated benefits. No, I'm sorry, I've got quite a lot still to get through. It's the clearly stated benefits that a safe home provides to people in our neighbourhoods. In 2020, Labour will ensure that 200,000 new homes are built across the UK, and we seek to emulate a similar programme for Scotland by using the powers that we currently have. Maureen Watt, please. I thank the member very much for giving way. In the lion's review website, it states that the increase in the supply of homes that she mentioned, the 200,000, is in England, whereas in Scotland's Labour together we can, to the 200,000 over across the whole of the UK. Can she tell us what it is? Mary Fee? Across the UK, Labour will ensure that 200,000 new homes are built across the UK, and as I already said, we would seek to emulate a similar programme in Scotland. There are a number of new powers coming to the Parliament, both under the Scotland 2012 act, and there are further devolved powers coming, and we would look to maximise the investment in housing by using those powers and being innovative in the way that we do that. The 2008 rural homes for red scheme at a cost of £5 million has produced some innovative methods of design, and I know this from a visit that I made last year to a development near Lockerby, a visit that the minister has also made. The house I was shown used the passive house system, which is an energy efficient system that creates extremely low energy homes. Speaking to one occupier, I was stunned to learn that the annual bills came in at around £100, and this system of low cost laid to build is a great example of how innovation can also reduce fuel poverty. The RICS commission now joins Audit Scotland in calling for a clearer presentation of Scottish Government housing budgets by calling housing expenditure opaque. Last year, a housing report for Scotland co-published by the actual CIH Scotland, the SFHA and Shelter, critiqued the Government's plan for the establishment of a housing investment bank in 2021, as extremely long term and provides no optimism for any finance provision in the next three years when the requirement is greatest. Those points show that while we need more innovative funding for new housing, we need to be aware that they must be realistic and clear to those involved. CIH Scotland helps to illustrate the clear need for innovative methods of funding and transparent budgets by talking about the multiplier, which estimates that for every £1 million spent on housing investment, it generates a £2 million to £3 million increase in gross output across the economy as a whole. Another key issue in housing supply surrounds the use of the private rented sector, and we know that the share of the private rented sector has increased over the last decade, and we know that private renters now spend 23 per cent of their income compared to 13 per cent a decade ago. My colleague James Kelly will pick up many of the issues in the private rented sector, so I won't say any more on that. I want to finish by briefly talking about homelessness. There has been a 34 per cent reduction in homeless applications in Scotland, but there are still 36,000 homeless people applied for a house in 2013-14. The decrease in that can be linked to the introduction of the housing options model and a renewed preventative approach by councils rather than any significant change in the underlying cause of homelessness. We have heard in evidence to committee concerns around varying interpretations of the housing options model, which could mean an underreporting of homelessness, so while positive, we need to be clear that the model is working. I am afraid that you need to draw to a close, please. In the private rented sector, we have seen more people present themselves as homeless with 18 per cent of homeless applications last year. In conclusion, I just repeat my opening comments that we are facing the biggest housing crisis since the end of the Second World War, and we are happy to work with Government in any way that we can to address this crisis. I move the amendment in my name. Thank you very much. I now call Alex Johnson to speak to and move amendment 110 to 3.36 minutes, please. Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. Mary Fee began by welcoming the fact that this was a housing debate that had been brought by the minister for the first time in two years. I think that it is only fair that I should join Mary Fee in thanking the minister for bringing this forward, because nothing highlights the fact that this Government is treading water better than its decision to bring a debate on housing to this chamber on the back of such a lamentable record on the subject. Although perhaps, if rumour is to be believed, the recent housing statistics are the best of a very bad lot that are waiting to see the light of day. The statistics released in August speak for themselves. Housing association construction has fallen year on year since 2009. Between 2012 and 2013 alone, housing association construction fell by an astonishing 443 units. With an ageing demographic in Scotland, we might have expected a more sophisticated housing response. Instead, we see a fall in the number of sheltered houses and only a marginal increase in the availability of very sheltered housing. Gone are the days when no newspaper was complete without a picture of Alec Neal resplendent in his hard hat and his high-viz jacket, breaking turf for cutting a ribbon somewhere. The fact is that it's all going wrong. The independence debate might have taken the attention away from the day-to-day issues that are so important to the lives of Scottish people, but the facts are cheels that win a ding. No matter how the housing minister and the well-whipped cheerleaders behind their spin this record as some kind of success story, the reality is that the Scottish Government has failed at one of the most important portfolios under its control. It's those languishing on the housing lists that are paying the price for it. The minister in her opening speech spoke at some length about what she described as innovative financing approaches and then went on to talk about the National Housing Trust. According to the national health service website, less than one-third of local authorities and just 15 developers have opted to take part in the national health service. The Scottish Government optimistically suggested that phase 1 alone of the national health service would deliver 1,000 houses, yet here we are much further down the line via that same website that just 675 units have been completed. Perhaps we should look to an earlier COSLA report on the national health service to find out why its performance is so disappointing. The report says, and I've got a number of quotes. The first one is, the national health service model is contradictory. It does not meet a number of councils' affordable housing policies or local housing strategy requirements. Another quote, some councils regarded the national health service as a short-term fix and could lead to difficulties when the developer decides to sell the units and the tenant does not exercise their right to buy. Now there's an irony, the SNP fall over themselves to end right to buy and yet their flagship housing policy may hit the rocks if the tenants do not exercise their right to buy the home they've been renting. Another quote from that same report, the number of legal documents associated with the NHS made the process complex from both a council and developer perspective. Finally, councils regarded the exit strategy for the sitting tenants as weak. That last comment should sound a warning to the Scottish Government. The fact is that those who enter into a tenancy agreement for an NHS home will have it in some cases for just five years. What happens to them after that? Well, they become just another homeless statistic. The national housing trust isn't the only initiative that hasn't had its troubles to seek. The Scottish Government's help to buy scheme, which plodded into existence with all the speed of a very slow thing with a heavy weight of expectation on its back, was no sooner introduced than there was a highly publicised shortage of bricks. This no doubt helped deflect the attention from the real story that was, of course, that the scheme had run out of money, leaving some would-be home owners on what must have been a deeply distressing limbo part of the way through their house purchase. No, not at this stage. I was reminded to an extent by the Scottish Government but the Government was clearly warned in advance by industry body homes for Scotland that the scheme was not adequately funded. While help to buy may be a sound scheme in principle, it seems clear to me that the danger of a sudden cash shortage with the disappointment that that brought to buyers and the associated knock-on effect in builders who may then find it harder to sell homes that they were building was easily foreseeable. The minister ignores all that at her peril and, from the answers that we got earlier, it would appear that the limited defined funding available, which will be available the next financial year, understand may well simply cause a similar glut in applications with the same level of disappointment at the end. No, I have to get through a lot before I get to the finish. There is a solution. It does not have to be this way. Of course, it is easy to spin failure as success. Use the big boy, done it and run away defence and finish the debate with was like us. Today's Scottish Government motion blames Westminster, as always, for the shortage of funds. The minister knows only too well that money is out there. Pension funds and investors are, and I know for a fact, standing, waiting with her checkbooks open ready to invest in affordable housing. I commend the city councils of Aberdeen and Edinburgh for the way in which they have actively moved towards using this kind of investment to deliver substantial numbers of affordable homes and all the jobs and training that these opportunities bring forward. The SNP should acknowledge the plain truth. This housing shortage will not be remedied by Government funding alone, and it must look outside its narrow socialist parameters in order to take the opportunities that exist. I move the amendment in my name. I welcome the opportunity to participate in this afternoon's debate. I have said it before and make no apologies for seeing it again. Tackling Scotland's housing crisis is one of the biggest challenges faced by the Scottish Government and for many families in this country. One of the most dominant concerns in their lives. The challenge is not to be underestimated. Audit Scotland's projections reveal that more than half a million new homes will be required over the next quarter of a century simply to meet demand. That's a demand that we are simply nowhere near to satisfying. In our communities, there are over 170,000 people on local authority waiting lists. Shelter have estimated that Scotland requires at least 10,000 new social rented homes each year to tackle this backlog. Of course, yes. Can I thank Mr Hoon for being so kind to take an intervention and maybe do what the other opposition parties failed to do? Will you outline in your budget process will that be a demand from the Liberal Democrats to the Scottish Government to allocate more to housing, because that's something that the Labour Party and the Conservatives have failed to do successfully? I'll always stand up for getting more money into Scotland. I'll echo what Mary Fee said about new powers coming to Scotland, which will help us to deliver housing for Scotland, of course. Against that backdrop, we have seen that social housing completions have declined every single calendar year since 2009, with a total number of completions last year being 30 per cent of that five years ago. At a time when housing policy experts are talking of at least 10,000 homes for social rent needed each year, they've now fallen below 4,500. Given that reality is difficult to take, given that reality is difficult to take the Government's motion seriously, it is a little self-congratulatory in tone and paints a distorted picture of a Scotland where everything is rosy when it comes to housing policy. That simply isn't the case. The Minister's motion states that housing is and will remain a high priority for the current administration. I welcome that commitment from the Minister for those words don't chime with the Government's actions of the past. If housing truly was a priority for the Scottish Government, then it would have merited greater coverage in the 670-page tome that was the white paper rather than the cursory three-page mention it actually received. Those three pages were big on constraints, but rather vacuous on fresh ideas on how to tackle Scotland's housing crisis. Judging by the Minister's speech today, I see not too much that has changed. If housing was a high priority, then the debacle we witnessed in July when the help to buy scheme ran out of money just three months into financial year would not have been allowed to happen, as Alex Johnson mentioned. The scheme has been vital on giving a leg-up on to the property ladder for thousands of first-time buyers across the country. For many, it's the only affordable option to becoming a home owner, and yet the door was slammed shut for anyone wanting to access it until next April when the budget for next year's scheme, I believe, is nearly 30 per cent less than this year. The situation is no easier if you are trying to access social housing. Under the SNP stewardship, there are now 11,000 fewer properties in the social rent housing stock at a time when demand for homes for social rent does continue to increase. The end of right to buy from 2016 was a welcome inclusion to stop the hemorrhaging of public sector homes into private ownership, of course, somewhat overdue. As I said earlier, there are currently more than 170,000 live applications from councils. I do have to make some progress now, thank you. As I said earlier, there are currently more than 170,000 live applications from households wanting a council house. That is before we even consider the hundreds of thousands of applications that will exist on housing association waiting lists. The real story, though, amounts to a damning indicment of the lack of progress has been made on social housing is when you look at how long families are waiting to access a home for social rent. Earlier this year I asked every local authority in Scotland who still managed their own housing stock how long have people been waiting on their waiting lists. That answer was that over 33,000 households had been waiting more than five years. When I asked how many had waited for 10 years, I discovered that it was just over 13,000 households, roughly the same number of households as there are in Clydebank. That is 13,000 households who reached a decision over a decade ago that their current living arrangements were no longer suitable but who would likely could not afford to rent in that private sector. That is a school leaver without a partner wanting to leave home for the first time. The family that has now outgrown their current home, or perhaps a couple having to deal with antisocial behaviour. The key point is that these people, couples, families, entered onto a waiting list before the SNP's management of housing in Scotland began and have remained on those waiting lists for the past seven and a half years. It is a sorry record that a fear has not enjoyed the full attention it deserved from the resources of the Scottish Government as it pursued its agenda of independence the past few years. Unfortunately, and not surprisingly, I won't be supporting the minister's motion as it is far too self-congratulatory when it should actually be concerned at the lack of progress made and decrease in housing stock in Scotland and the challenges that we do have ahead of us. I do move the amendment in my name. Many thanks. We now turn to the open debate. Speeches of a maximum of six minutes are quite tight for time. I call Jim Eadie to be followed by Alex Rowley. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I am grateful for the opportunity to take part in this important debate. I think that we would all want to see a mix of housing tenure with good quality social housing at its heart rather than as it has been allowed to become a safety net for those who cannot afford to rent or buy. Investment in housing is critical to our economy and to our society and that is why it is and will continue to be a high priority for this Scottish Government. However, people are entitled to ask where is the evidence to support that proposition and the evidence is surely in the £1.7 billion which the Scottish Government intends to spend on affordable housing over the period of the current parliamentary session. It is in the estimated 8,000 construction and other jobs which will be created as a result of that investment and most crucially of all it is in the significant progress that is being made in meeting the targets of 30,000 affordable homes by March 2016 including 20,000 homes for social rent. Presiding Officer, the Scottish Government's record is a good one. It has already invested £1 billion in affordable housing and has already delivered over 21,000 affordable homes 15,000 for social rent since 2011. The number of council houses being built is now at a 25-year high in the year to March 2014. I give way to Mr Kelly. James Kelly. I thank Mr Eadie for taking the intervention and he stresses and I agree with him the importance of looking at evidence to support the Government's record. Surely he must be concerned that the fact that investment in this year's budget is running at £341 million compared with previous years in real terms for example 2009-10 £105 million so we are almost two-thirds less than we were in 2009-10 Surely that shows a tailing off on investment. The fact is that the Scottish Government has to live in the real world where the swinging cuts in the budget imposed by Westminster has impacted on our own budgets and on housing supply but despite that the record is a good one and as the minister reminded us the Scottish Government has built more houses and more council houses in Scotland than the previous Labour Liberal Democrat Administration. The council housing record speaks for itself that more than 4,000 council homes have now been delivered through the council house building programme since 2009. David Buchbinder, the head of policy for the Chartered Institute of Housing Scotland recognised in September last year the contribution that the Government is making when he stated in difficult financial times it's great news that the outline 15-16 budget of £390 million not only consolidates the numerous increases we've seen to the existing budget but also represents an increase of around 21 per cent on the average annual spend of £323 million within the current programme. We've had a number of contributions from the front benches this afternoon Mary Fee I think to her credit gave a qualified welcome to the progress that has been made and even recognised that the previous Labour-Lib Dem Administration could have done more on social housing. The Conservative amendment talks about a comprehensive housing policy but fails to understand that it's not possible to deliver that and to meet housing need if you have a policy which is wholly reliant on the private rented sector and which still anchors after the sale of council houses which of course removed over 450,000 properties from the social sector. The continuing depletion of the social housing stock was unsustainable and I am glad that this Parliament acted to end the right to buy. Now I turn to Jim Hume who is someone for whom I have a high personal regard but quite frankly the Liberal Democrat amendment is staggering indeed breathtaking in its hypocrisy lauding Liberal Democrat policy in the most shameless self-congratulatory fashion to use his words while admitting to mention that they are in a coalition government that is not a Scottish capital budget by 26 per cent. Of course there are still questions remaining for probably probably what we'd like to Jim Hume briefly there is very little time in the debate. You've painted a very black picture there but does the member not recognise that there was £290 million came through the Barnett formula when the UK Government did its buy-to-rent scheme to help to buy scheme that has in fact helped to fuel the... I think the member would have to recognise if he was being fair minded that that has come in the back of significant cuts to the Scottish Government's own budget and does not restore those significant cuts there are still questions remaining for the Labour Party and that is really about how they deliver on the pledges that they have made how many of the 200,000 homes by 2020 will be built in Scotland and how will that be possible to deliver that pledge when Ed Balls has said and I quote in our manifesto there will be no proposals for any new spending paid for by additional borrowing so we need further clarity from the Labour Party on how they intend to deliver now I'd like to turn to the issue of wider powers because this debate cannot be held in isolation from that wider debate now taking place about the additional financial powers which should come to this Parliament we need those powers to increase flexibility in the financial framework to support housing investment in new and innovative ways and we need those powers to remove some of the barriers to investment in social housing barriers such as the UK treasury rules that have been referred to by the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations who are on record as saying that the schemes available are not appropriate for most Scottish housing association projects the Institute of Fiscal Studies can make the greater investment in social housing while some of the benefits of that spending accrue to Westminster in the form of lower housing benefit payments we need those additional powers letters unite to achieve those powers for this Parliament and letters unite in calling on this UK Government to increase capital spending so that the Scottish Government can make the greater investment in housing which we would all wish to see thank you very much I call Alex Riley to be followed by Mike McKenzie the motion that is in front of us today from Margaret Burgess who wouldn't agree that it is to be welcomed 21,000 or not affordable homes and 15,000 social rented homes given the housing crisis that we have in Scotland I'm sure we would welcome any investment in housing the problem with this motion however is that it really just congratulates the Margaret Burgess and the SNP Government on what they've done without failing to really look at what the issues are so let's look at the facts 150,000 people in over island council house waiting lists across Scotland 4,000 children in Scotland currently living in temporary accommodation 36,000 homeless applications to Scottish local authorities in 2013-14 an estimated 65,000 households in Scotland were living in overcrowded homes in 2012 those are big figures but what we should be remembering in this Parliament and this debate is these are real people real people in every constituency across Scotland I was in the house and reside just this week and met a family who were in an overcrowded position and in one room alone three bedrooms packed in and the council tell them that the house is too cramped and that's why they've got condensation and they're having to throw mattresses out there's people living in those types of conditions an unsuitable housing across Scotland and that's what we should remember in this debate we are talking about real people John Mason I thank the member for giving way he describes real problems and I see some of these as well would he in his party commit funding to housing and say take it off colleges or take it off health Alex Howley I would make the point and go on to make the point that Shelter and other housing groups are saying that we need to build at least 10,000 socially rented houses per year I certainly for one will be campaigning to achieve those kind of targets and I'll say a bit more about that but in terms of funding yes we need to look at more money there are in Jimmy D mentioned powers and capital expenditure coming available and the current negotiations will result in more but I would also draw the Parliament's attention to a paper that has been circulated by Unison Scotland where Unison Scotland actually put forward the view and idea about the local government pension funds currently in Scotland the local government pension funds are valued at £24.1 billion and the point is made in the document that if you actually look at where you could actually get investment over a 25-year period then pension funds like this should be looked at to invest in public works and in public services like providing council housing so there are ways actually raising the monies both through the councils themselves and through the Parliament but also in the case of five council where they did a partnership where tenants raised the rents and are now building over the period of five years 2,700 houses and Margaret Burg just when Wales congratulating herself doesn't actually congratulate the councils across Scotland that are coming up with innovative schemes to be able to build houses so I would say to you if we're ambitious enough and if we've got the political will and drive to actually tackle this issue then we should be in a position in a lot of ways being able to build houses there are currently 23,000 long-term private sector empty houses across Scotland and again there's work that could be and should be done there to start to look at that but my point about the lackie ambition in this motion and the lackie ambition coming through the Government rather than simply congratulating yourself for what you have achieved we should start to set out a plan for Scotland clear action, clear targets authority by authority area by area because even if we were to come up with a funding through the unison proposal through the powers that are coming into this Parliament there are other obstacles in our way this Government should be talking to every local authority across Scotland we should be starting to identify and ask for an audit of all land that is available to be able to build and social rented housing we should be looking at the planning system that's in place and the difficulties in the delays because if there's one thing I learned in five it was one thing to raise the money to build the 2,700 houses it was quite another to then put them in place we should be looking at partnerships with private developers we should be looking at divides and policies so that we're able to agree with private developers a number of houses that can be built in every housing development across Scotland in a new partnership it should be about that vision the benefits of that in terms of jobs in terms of apprenticeships in terms of giving people the housing that they need those benefits cannot be understated so I would say that it is about having ambition it is about looking at new ideas such as that coming forward by Scotland and it is about saying that we will sign up to the principal a shelter under 10,000 houses per year nothing less will be good enough to try and tackle the housing crisis that we have I now call Mike McKenzie to be followed by John Mason I'm delighted that the SNP Government is on track to deliver its manifesto commitment of 30,000 affordable homes because few things are as fundamental as housing and I think that's something that we can rightly be proud of but not yet I wondered this afternoon if we're going to hear the same ideological opposition from the Labour Party to the concept the idea of shared equity or shared ownership housing because that's certainly what we've heard in previous housing debates but they seem to have changed their minds now they're a fan of private ownership by morning that the help to buy scheme doesn't have enough money so they've gone from opposition to private ownership or shared equity, shared ownership of any type to now being fans of that not only that but they want to claim credit for the pre-credit crunch level of private building that's extraordinary so but in order to properly tackle housing problem we do need to build about 30,000 houses per annum of all 10 years and I would welcome what I thought I heard Mary Fee say this afternoon that UK Government are committed to building about 20,000 houses in Scotland our pro-rata share of the 200,000 she was talking about or are we no longer part of the UK did I and the referendum result 20,000 or so of social houses built in Scotland by the Labour Party I wonder though if that's really living in the real world even at current hag levels that amounts to an expenditure of about one billion per annum or maybe we should believe Mr Riley 10,000 houses per annum I'm not quite sure what it is the Labour Party are saying with this vision but one thing's very clear it's an unfunded vision they will not explain where the money is going to come from they are we're told by their UK boss Ed Miliband and Ed Balls that they're going to maintain austerity continue austerity so I think the Labour Party will need to sign up and tell us where they're going to fund how they're going to fund this grand vision for housing and what other areas of funding would they cut to provide this grand vision that they're now talking about I suspect won't hear any answer from them at all on that point and voters won't forget that while they talk about this they lack the political courage in their long period of office both here and in the UK to end the right to buy in all these years of office they failed to tackle that problem it's little wonder that Labour members are leaving their party in substantial numbers and maybe Mr Riley would like to contemplate that one of the reasons that councils are now beginning at long last to consider building council houses again is because this SNP Government has ended the right to buy but, Presiding Officer tackling the housing problem is not merely the preserve of the housing minister I do agree with Mr Riley it also takes us into the territory of planning and I'm glad therefore that the planning minister is continuing to modernise our planning system to encourage changing its culture because land is a basic requirement for housing and in a country where less than 6% of our land is built on with the second lowest population density in Europe it's an absolute ridiculous situation that the planning system creates such high housing land prices and as a consequence of this far too much of our money goes into the land and not nearly enough goes into the fabric of our buildings and if we're going to improve the quality of our buildings both in their design and in their construction we need to deal with this aspect of the planning system which acts against and not in favour of the public interest and just as bad is the necessity that the planning system creates for developers both public and private to accumulate vast land banks in order to deal with the uncertainty created by the planning system imagine if in order to function the car industry had to buy 10 years supply of steel in advance and store it out in a field what a shockingly inefficient use of resources the requirement therefore for local planning authorities to produce up to date local development plans every 5 years and to identify and continually update an effective supply of housing land is a big step in the right direction and squeezing maximum value from our diminishing budget and building 30,000 new homes over the lifetime of this Parliament and reforming our planning system and in ending the right to buy this SNP Government is responsibly tackling Scotland's housing problem and will continue to do so Many thanks I now call John Mason to be followed by Ken Macintosh Thank you, Presiding Officer and I do think that there is agreement amongst many of us in the chamber that we need to have more and improved housing as a priority so the question for debate this afternoon a lot of it is round about resources now it's perfectly reasonable for Labour and the Lib Dems as they have in their motions or amendments and also in their speeches we all agree with that However, once again it would be good to hear from them where they want the resources cut from to go into housing We shelter have mentioned this figure of 200 million per annum that they would like to see but we do not have a commitment I don't think from any of the other parties as to where that money is coming from Would they cut the college sector or would they cut the health budget as James Kelly mentioned would the member agree that the housing budget is disproportionate to any austerity cuts that you may refer to John Mason My point is that he is welcome to propose that more money goes into housing but he has to tell us where it comes from There is an argument I would accept that the health budget could perhaps be reduced because if people were living in better housing and having to spend enough to get their housing warm then they wouldn't need to spend so much on health so there are arguments to be had there but let's have that argument from the opposition parties rather than just this pie in the sky hopefully we can just get 200 million from goodness knows where and I think they would be entitled to make these arguments and they would have more credibility if they made them but they cannot expect more money in housing with no transfer of resources from elsewhere Now the Conservatives take a slightly different line in their amendment suggesting that we do not need more public spending and in fact they tell us that we have an obsession with public spending Thank you They suggest that there should be more private and institutional investment Now what exactly is meant by that I don't really know Does it mean more lending from private resources? That is already happening The housing associations do borrow from a variety of locations including banks and building societies although these are not as keen to lend as they used to be Or is it perhaps pension funds as Mr Rowley and others and I think Mr Johnson actually mentioned as well Now there are moves in that direction but there are few associations other than Glasgow Housing Association which have the scale certainly in the west of Scotland to take on the large size of investment that is required if a pension fund is going to invest Social rented housing finances are not really that complicated Rent levels are linked to the loans taken on by the housing associations or the councils for that matter so the more grant or hag that is available the lower the loan needs to be and therefore the lower the rent that has to be to cover all the costs That also means of course that housing benefit is lower if the rents are lower and that is currently a cost saving to Westminster In the private rented sector by contrast there are no grants rents are inevitably higher and as a result the housing benefit or local housing allowance bill is higher as well so I really do remain unclear as to what the Conservatives desired model is pension funds were mentioned as did Mr Rowley mentioned pension funds but really in practice these are just another form of borrowing they are another way of bringing in the money and the pension funds need a return just as the banks and the building societies need a return To not recognise that the Tory answer to housing is basically the market and leave it to the market and that's why Tory policy will never tackle the housing problems in Scotland John Mason I totally agree with that I just think he and his colleagues need to explain a little more clearly how they would use the pension funds and how that would make such a big difference if the amount of grant available is limited by the budget Now private rented sector has been debated at quite some length in this chamber before so I'll not mention it other than to say we need to keep an eye on it and I'm sure we'll hear more from other constituencies where it is a much larger sector If I can focus just finally on my own constituency there is obviously good news and one of these items is the Commonwealth Games village this is now being transformed into a mixture of accommodation including a care home, social rented housing and bot housing and I can assure you that a fair number of my constituents tell me that they would like to live there if I can just get them a house Just last Thursday I was at the AGM of Parkhead Housing Association and we heard about some of the new developments One was at the site of the old Parkhead Fire Station and for that they received Housing Association grant however the interesting point was that they did not need to borrow as they had sufficient funds of their own to make up the difference Now clearly we have a wide range of housing associations in a wide range of financial states all should have reserves which are ring fenced for future maintenance and these should not be used for development programmes but where associations do have their own free reserves they should certainly be encouraged to use them Now both the developments I've just mentioned the games village and the old fire station were brownfield sites and housing associations are to be commended that they want to build in such sites close to existing communities and where there are usually existing public transport and other services I should say too that our urban regeneration company Clyde Gateway has been doing extremely good work in rehabilitating brownfield land and we are very appreciative of government funding for that By contrast I do find it disappointing that much of the private sector is insistent on wanting green belt or green space land for housing Glasgow has very limited green land around it within the city boundary while there are many areas of vacant or derelict land within the city especially in the east and the north In my own area we used to have wide open fields east of Ballaston before you got to Burgundy in North Lanarkshire and now we just get more and more housing filling every green space Now I do accept, Presiding Officer, that Coatbridge may be a very nice place but I am not keen that Glasgow and Coatbridge just become one long grey urban sprawl That's probably enough just now and I do welcome the end of right to buy Thank you very much Many thanks I call Ken Macintosh to be followed by Jamie Hepburn Thank you, Presiding Officer and our shared desire across this chamber to ensure that every Scot enjoys the security and stability of a decent home should provide us with a platform on which to reach political consensus on housing In practice unfortunately agreement seems more difficult to achieve Having called today's debate for example I'm intrigued from the motion before us whether the Scottish Government recognised there is a problem with housing supply or not Just this summer the independent Scottish Housing Commission the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveys concluded that Scotland faces an inadequate and inelastic supply of housing and that the imbalance that exists between supply and demand for housing remains an on-going problem Audit Scotland and its comprehensive report on housing in Scotland published last year also concluded simply that the supply of housing is not meeting current levels of need The number of new private homes built in Scotland has more than halved in recent years while the population is increasing Looking at council or housing association property Audit Scotland went on to identify a quote a shortfall of almost 14,000 homes in the last decade alone My worry, Presiding Officer is that if we find it difficult to accept or agree on the extent of the problem it is going to be even more tricky to coalesce around potential solutions I want to look at three areas where I hope there is room for agreement and where we can try to jointly address Scotland's housing needs Although I have flagged up supply as our main problem, the first is an initiative which focuses on improving demand and that's the help-to-buy scheme As the minister may be aware I was very relieved that two of my constituents who applied for support under the help-to-buy scheme at the very time it ran out of money did have their application approved and several weeks of anxiety aside were the last to benefit from the programme this year but their experience illuminated several questions that were already being asked about the competency of the way the scheme has been administered It has been pointed out, for example that the very fact that the minister spent all the money that she was allocated in the first three months will hardly have helped to smooth the boom and bust cycle that typifies and plagues the housing market What also worries many not just in the housing industry but those young couples and families wanting to but unable to buy their first home is that the scheme also appears to have been run on a first come first serve basis There appears to have been little or no attempt to ensure that the millions of pounds of taxpayers' money behind this programme has gone to the most deserving or those most in need of support I am aware that further funding will become available next year and I would welcome an assurance and perhaps further detail from the minister about the lessons that have been learnt Turning to planning both the Scottish Government in approving or in fact in overruling local planning decisions has also raised huge concern in my constituency and I am sure in many other areas around Scotland Ministers do not appear able to give residents the confidence they seek that they have struck the right balance between national objectives and local control Residents in East Renfisher were part of a lengthy public consultation on a five-year local development plan but what appears to be happening now is that some developers are ignoring much of the land that the local authority has identified and democratically approved for housing and instead they are putting in speculative bids on green belt sites they believe can be sold on at vast profit The tactic seems to be that if developers put in enough of these applications even though all will be knocked back by the local authority the Scottish Government will approve one or two on appeal making the whole exercise worthwhile and I need to tell you that that is not affordable housing nor are these homes for social rent What is worse is that neighbourhood after neighbourhood now feels threatened by speculative development and local residents have little or no confidence in the protection previously offered by the green belt As we speak an application has just been received by East Renfisher for an enormous and entirely unwanted housing development on green belt land surrounding the village of Waterford Ministers could grasp this application and others like it as an opportunity to send a clear message to local residents that there is no place in our planning process for speculative development such as this putting aside their centralising tendencies and supporting our local authorities and our democratic processes Finally, but most important of all I want to turn to housing for social rent Just one story of the many I could call on with what I suspect has been repeated the length and breadth of the country I see young as a relative term by the way this person is in their 30s a young constituent trying to bring up two kids in his own he was born and raised in East Renfisher with both children attending local primary and secondary schools but following the family split he now finds himself in unaffordable private rented accommodation in Glasgow and is having to downsize again to even further afield he has few points to push him up the housing list and with only a few hundred council houses in Eastwood virtually no chance of securing a home there we know that East Renfisher council is just one of up to a dozen local authorities where the waiting list for a council house has increased over the past five years with an estimated 150,000 in this predicament nationwide now owning your own home is the goal for many people in this country but it surely cannot be as important as the simple right to a decent home as the overriding objective of housing policy in Scotland building more safe good quality homes for rent will not just boost the public sector it will improve affordability in the private sector it will help provide jobs and trade apprenticeships we know that it has a positive impact on physical and mental health it will allow families to take advantage of educational opportunity is it not time that the minister faced up to the seriousness of the situation accepted housing supply is a critical problem for all Scots looking for a decent home to labour and other parties in this chamber to find a practical solution thank you very much we are quite tight for time so amendments will have to be contained within the six-minute speeches please Jamie Hepburn to be followed by Annzala Malick thank you very much the greatest issue that my constituents bring to me is the issue of housing be it a desire to get off the waiting list and secure a long-term home or often issues about the quality so it is therefore very welcome that we debate the issue of the provision of decent quality housing for our constituents in that regard I do think I welcome the record of the Scottish Government clearly we've seen since April 2011 the expenditure of some £1 billion in affordable housing as part of £1.7 billion is going to be spent over the lifetime of this parent supporting around 8,000 jobs that is a real achievement especially when you place it in the context of a 26 per cent cut to our capital budget and those who call for a significant uplift in funding would do well to recognise that that is the difficult reality and despite that reality we have seen since 2007 over 4,000 new council homes built I don't think I need to rehearse the number of council homes that were built under the previous administration which was significantly shall I say significantly less than 4,000 I think six in the four-year period of the last administration was a figure and we also have seen over 30,000 housing associations homes completed since 2007 eight which is actually a significant rise in the seven-year period before so I think certainly for those such as James Kelly who were bemoaning the level of housing through the Scottish Government's budget there's the reality there's the output of the Scottish Government's investment in a minute Mr Hume but also if we want to look at the reality and assess the level of expenditure Scottish Government expenditure the institute of fiscal studies highlight the fact that the Scottish Government spends 85 per cent more per head on social housing than in England and Wales I'll give way to Mr Hume briefly in the spirit of consensuality we have to realise we're in different times in the eight years up to 2007 there was just under 24,000 houses built albeit some of them private in the last in the years since S&P have taken power it's just under 16,000 so does the member not realise that there's an extra need now because of all the circumstances to concentrate on housing again I'll go back to the fact that the Scottish Government has recognised the extra pressure because that's why it's built some 12 per cent more housing association homes in the period of its governance than were built in the seven years beforehand so I think the Scottish Government does recognise the additional pressures that exist and of course the Scottish Government has also moved to a boss the right to buy and I thought it was interesting to hear both Mary Fee and Jim Hume welcome this policy but criticised its implementation Mr Hume said it was overdue I have to say I'd rather take such concerns more seriously if either Mr Hume or Ms Fee's parties have done anything approaching what the Scottish Government has done in relation to right to buy in their long years of government which of course they didn't I very much welcome the moves that have been taken in relation to right to buy I know that many families feel they have benefited personally with the right to buy from extended family who took that opportunity I'm not critical of them it's understandable that they took that opportunity but what might constitute success for those individual families I think has constituted a failure of public policy when you consider the scale of the waiting lists that are before as other members have mentioned that I won't rehearse the numbers again frankly the reduction in social housing stock and the fact that councils weren't able to provide seats and replacement homes has contributed massively to this backlog and people awaiting a new home and I think we also have to recognise as well that it hasn't always been successful for those who bought their council house because they were sold early advantages of home ownership and the disadvantages of home ownership were in the place such as the cost of maintaining a home too many houses in Scotland have fallen to a substandard condition that's often exacerbated certainly my experience in my own constituent is often exacerbated by disinterested private landlords who are willing to take they're willing to pay to bring their homes up to proper living standards frankly I have constituents who are living in what could only be described as slum housing and I think they are living in places that we should frankly be ashamed that anyone in Scotland is living in the 21st century and one of the driving factors has been the power of the right to buy and I know that we've been charged on these benches being ideologically motivated and want to see the passing of the right to buy as if the policy itself wasn't hugely motivated by all of you but it was a practical move because what we're now seeing for the first time in a long time Presiding Officer, over 4,000 council homes built since 2007-08 as councils willing to invest in public housing we've got a long way to go but we're seeing the success of the measure taken in Bosnia and the right to buy we're seeing new council houses being built at two localities in Westfield in Cymrnold in my constituency and new council houses going to be built in Cosaith, these are homes that are now available and will become available for people who otherwise wouldn't have got them that is only happening because of the measures we are taking in relation to right to buy and I think that's one of the most successful measures that this parent in the Scottish Government introduced and parent has taken over its lifetime I say I don't have much time left I wanted to talk about the bedroom tax I don't have time to do that but we can talk about that another time in a future housing debate let me say though I think housing is very safe in the hands of this Scottish Government Thank you very much Hanzala Malik to be followed by Stuart McMillan Thank you very much and good afternoon Presiding Officer it is an honour to speak about housing supply in my constituent's surgeries the basic facts are that demand for housing is going up and the current Scottish Government has failed to keep up with it the SMP should not celebrate the 5% increase in the new housing completion in the last financial year the reality is that new housing supply means well below pre-recession levels in fact it is 42% less than 2007 and 2008 levels this is not pure this is shameful and we all, and I include myself we all have a responsibility to try and address the shortfall as a matter of urgency in addition there are over 150,000 on social housing lists waiting lists and homes for Scotland have declared that this is the biggest crisis or for homes in Scotland since the Second World War Minister this is happening in your watch unfortunately the SMP Government needs to look at the whole picture not just in small parts of the problem the Government needs to have a renewed emphasis on meeting housing needs there must be greater financial support and structure focus on housing section to encourage a wide range of housing to be built including possibly guaranteeing of building a percentage of large homes to fit the needs of citizens of today as we see time and time again that there are serious issues for families who are in large numbers and are not being accommodated I have constituents come to me from across the housing needs sector from single people who have feel that they will never be able to afford to move out of their parents homes to large families who are living in incredibly cramped conditions I know families who the council has assessed as needing a four bedroom house and the rest and last time a house of that size was available in their preferred area was more than a decade ago whilst there are subject subjected to water penetration dampness, overcrowding and serious damp conditions there are serious issues minister which are not being addressed and they need to be addressed more and more housing developments are small housing developments and it looks good on paper that we have built so many homes but the reality is that a large segment of our community the most needed are not being catered for these people and others like them cannot really afford to go into private sector but because of the dire shortage of social housing they are being forced into private rented sector the Joseph Rentry's foundation found that one in four of these in poverty live in the private sector the number of houses provided in the private sector has doubled in the last decade to 120,000 while the number of social housing has almost halved that again just indicates the pressures the housing associations are under the government needs to tackle fair rents in the private sector now the housing act 2014 was a missed opportunity to tackle the housing challenges that the people of Scotland face including the housing shortage reform and the growing private sector rented sector now that we have got distractions like the referendum out of the way and the minister actually back on the job with a positive sign in terms of housing being increased slightly we need to focus and try to get Scotland's housing supplier right do what we all came to do and that is to work for the people of Scotland may I also want to say that you know this it's very easy to claim that you've done a very good job it's very easy to say that the housing sector is safe in the SNP and the Scottish Government but the reality and the facts are quite different the reality is that we have people who are not being catered for young children are being used to cram conditions, poor conditions suffer bad health which impinges on their educational aspirations as well as their health I think you know sometimes when people say that oh I would never allow this sort of toleration to go on but it's actually happening on the ground I would today openly invite the minister to visit some of the housing in Glasgow and some of my conditions and actually see the conditions they're actually living in just to give her a flavour the reality on life on the ground what is the reality I had said to the housing minister once before that she thinks that everything is hunky day, dory out there it isn't and by just taking her to one or two houses it would just drive home the message of the real hardship that people are actually facing and if Scottish Government wishes to claim that housing is good in their hands I would ask her to visit those houses and see if she can offer a solution to those people who desperately need one thank you many thanks and I call Stuart McMillan Mc Donald thank you very much I welcome the opportunity to take part in this debate and as we know this is an important issue which actually startly highlights the decisions taken by this Scottish Government in comparison to the policies of the UK Government and also previous Scottish administrations here in this Parliament this Scottish Government has set ambitious targets for increasing housing supply and it's good news that those targets are not only being met but actually are being exceeded nearly 35,000 social houses were completed between 2008 and 2014 this is up 28 per cent on the period from 2001 to 2007 where just over 27,000 homes were completed and council house building figures are at a 25-year high in the year to March 2014 with 1,140 new council homes built in Scotland and this is over 4,000 have been delivered throughout the council house building programme since 2009 we also need to remember that this has actually happened whilst the UK Government has actually been slashing Scotland's capital budget by 26 per cent the priority given to social housing in Scotland is in stark contrast to the situation in the rest of the UK the IFS have highlighted that the Scottish Government spends 85 per cent more per head on social housing than England and Wales and for instance in the year the social sector new build completion rate in Scotland was 82.7 per 100,000 compared to 41.8 in England and 24 in Wales and certainly in many fees opening comments certainly she appeared to criticise the Scottish Government actually comparing policy with elsewhere but surely a Scottish Government of whichever colour should actually be looking at elsewhere anywhere else in the world to actually look at what it's doing and compare so they can also learn lessons as well but we should be doing that in all policy areas as compared to what appears to be a silo mentality that Labour appear to have Mary Fee Mary Fee a brief point on the comment that the member made about the comparisons that the Government make a problem with the comparisons that the Government make the comparisons are always framed in its Westminster's fault everything that happens in Scotland is Westminster's fault I have never once heard a comparison made which would reflect good practice in another area of the country which we could use up here to our benefit it's always in a critical sense the comparison I would actually suggest that Mary Fee maybe can look at some of the evidence we actually receive within the local government regeneration committee we actually do hear of positive practice as it goes on so comparisons actually are made whether they are for a positive and also a negative but certainly the priority is very much stark as I said but it also seems clear that when Labour are in power they actually fail social housing and in particular council housing as we know that the Labour administration in Wales only managed to build 20 council houses in the last seven years whilst the last Labour Lib Dem administration here could only build six council houses in the last four years in office if anything underlines Labour's failure in council housing then it is this record of their own administrations Alex Rowley unfortunately has left the chamber at the moment Alex Rowley made some comments earlier asking for the Scottish Government to have the housing action plan and to get the Scottish Government to place demands up upon local authorities this is in stark comparison to what we hear in the local government regeneration committee on a regular basis of representatives come in who are Labour representatives so I found it a bit strange for Alex Rowley to actually make those comments increasing the supply of social housing is important but so too are any moves to improve the condition of existing social housing and the quality of Scotland's housing has important implications for health education and other social outcomes as we have heard earlier on in this debate and the Scottish Government is to be congratulated providing £60 million of investment in the global energy efficiency programme for Scotland this enables local authorities and social landlords to install energy efficient measures such as solid wall cavity and loft insulation in their communities but I want to go on to just one final point and that's regarding the Conservative amendment certainly Alex Johnson in typically robust fashion he attempted to defend the indefensible particularly with the motion or the amendment that they actually put forward but Alex Johnson also commented of the private moneys and certainly to me it actually indicated or it clearly indicated to me that the Tories actually went to privatise social house building in Scotland now maybe either plan I know that later on it's mentioned about pension funds but maybe their plan is to actually obtain private finance from companies actually wishing to involve themselves in fracking that will certainly make it easier for that particular activity to occur since they're not going to object to that particular activity because it's under their own homes now hopefully Alex Johnson could possibly clarify that point when he concludes his comments from the Tories later on but as mentioned earlier on despite the capital budget cuts that the UK Government have been undertaking, planned by Alasdorling and implemented by George Osborne this Scottish Government still plans to spend over £1.7 billion over the lifetime of this Parliament to deliver 30,000 affordable homes for UK Government and all the UK parties who are signed up to modern austerity and attacks on the poor have all said they won't increase capital spending it is this attitude that is holding back even more investment into affordable housing I therefore back the motion in the name of the minister many thanks now Colin Gordon MacDonald to be followed by Sarah Boyle up to six minutes as we're time for time thank you there is no doubt a need for new affordable housing in this country however we do need to recognise that there are tens of thousands of more homes in Scotland than there are households there are 107,000 houses in Scotland that are either empty homes or second homes and while the Scottish Government has tried to tackle these issues it is with the backdrop of a cut in our budget but with regard to the building of new homes, Edinburgh council and housing associations have built over 1200 new social rent midmarket rent and low cost home ownership homes across the city in the year to March 2014 those figures are part of the 15,957 new homes delivered in Scotland in that year which is the first increase in house building since the recession of 2007-08 the figures include 10,686 homes of private house building a greater demand for social housing due to the changes in mortgage lending and the increase in private rents younger homeowners face loan-to-income ratios of 45 which means that those earning the average salary of 26,000 per annum cannot afford a new home in the capital private tenants have seen their rents increase from 18% of their income a decade ago to 23% today recognising the increased demand for new affordable homes the Scottish Government has invested £970 million over the three years to March 2015 over the five years to March 2016 £1.7 billion will have been spent on affordable homes the Scottish Government has delivered 21,000 affordable homes since 2011 taking them to two thirds of the way towards a five-year target of 30,000 new affordable homes Edinburgh is anticipating that to 2020 there will be just under 10,000 new homes built across the city many residents in the west of the city however in both my constituency and that of Colin Kears are concerned that the current infrastructure cannot cope with this level of house building I've spoken before about traffic congestion and air quality issues in the west side of the city in my view this will deteriorate further with the house building plan for Fife and West Lothian this is however a planning issue and I want to focus on what changes could help my constituents facing numerous speculative housing developments the housing grant given to RSLs or to council houses to councils to build new homes currently varies according to whether it's in an urban setting a rural setting or a remote part of the country it also varies depending on the energy efficiency standards of the new development I believe that it would be helpful for the provision of new homes in Edinburgh if the grant was adjusted to reflect the type of land that was being proposed to be developed Brownfield could attract a higher level of grant than Greenfield and productive arable land would receive the lowest level of all arable land is only 15% of the land mass of Scotland the UK is only 68% self-sufficient in feeding its population and therefore it doesn't make sense that we allow good arable land to be built on we cannot reinvent arable land therefore we should have policies in place that discourage development in those areas this I believe would tackle the issue we have in the west of Edinburgh where there is currently speculative planning applications being submitted by developers and landowners to build an Edinburgh's green belt landowners win out of the current system because a land is worth more to sell with planning permission developers prefer green fuel developments as they achieve a price premium for a leafy suburb and in many cases have lower development costs these large scale developments need to provide 25% social housing and it usually results in a joint venture with a housing association to build that element of the development thereby qualifying for housing grant by reducing the level of grant in greenfield areas or where the land is good quality arable land it would make the financial case more difficult and would hopefully push developers to consider brownfield first in Edinburgh we have constrained sites where 24,311 homes could be built the reasons are varied from the consent expired developer and administration are not viable in the current climate increasing the grant for these sites will make the latter category more financially viable and will protect Edinburgh's green belt to an extent Edinburgh is a city that can provide good quality employment but where the cost of living in terms of housing is high so how can we tackle this the Scottish Government has invested millions in upgrading the Airdrie Bathgate railway line and the new Borders railway we also have in the pipeline the future upgrade of the Edinburgh Glasgow via shots line the main Edinburgh Glasgow line witnesses many people commuting from our largest city through to the capital to find work we need a mechanism to encourage development along our railway network in the existing communities is your door to our clothes please this would help to support towns and villages that have suffered from unemployment for decades I believe that it is possible that if we use all the mechanisms that the Government has to integrate housing and transport policy so that we do not replicate the problems associated with our other capital city many thanks and I now call on Sarah Boyart to be followed by Marco Biagi up to six minutes please thank you very much well it's a pleasure to follow Gordon MacDonald this afternoon because I too want to focus on Edinburgh's housing challenge and I think the solution cannot be just to export our families to the rest of Scotland because to be honest that's what we've seen over the last few years we also need to have high quality affordable housing we need quality housing we need it where people want to stay we need it of the right size and accessible and we also need the housing we have to be in good condition but above all and this is where I would very much agree with Gordon MacDonald that it needs to be affordable one of the comments that the minister made was that our numbers of homeless people are reducing in Edinburgh but if you look closer at the statistics you'll see that actually although we have a great reduction in the number of homeless people they're all staying a lot longer in temporary accommodation so we have a problem about the housing that people move on to once they've first been made homeless and that's not just about the bricks and mortar it's also about the social support people have but I do want to emphasise the sheer scale of demand our population is expected to grow by 25 per cent to the year 2035 but the average Scottish figure is 10 per cent if we're to take our household increases though there's a 43 per cent increase by 2035 now that is a huge increase and there simply isn't the capacity currently being delivered for that it is a huge scale of an increase in demand and that effectively means 95,000 new households in the city and we need the right kind of housing but we also need sustainable communities a mix of houses to buy and a mix crucially of social rented housing and I think the planning minister it's a pity he's not here and I'm sure Marco Biagio will follow on this point it's also the planning minister that's involved in this process this is not just an issue for the housing minister the two ministers and their teams need to work together and in particular the planning minister needs to work with local authorities to ensure that where they have planning policies and development of brownfield sites for local needs housing that they are actually backed up by the Scottish Government's own planning decisions and not frustrated in their ambitions to create sustainable communities. The recent report this decision on Luton Court drives a coach and horses through the council's approved local plan and creates a real crisis for the council right across the city in terms of being able to influence the right type of housing development we need new housing I like the issue of the need for accessible homes for older people our older people the numbers of whom are predicted to increase dramatically the particular challenges that the number of over 65s is expected to grow by 70% and when I last spoke in Parliament to ask the health secretary about the support for care at home he talked about the fact that methodology was being worked on this is not a future problem this is a problem now a problem of care it's partly a problem of the accessibility of housing that people are living in but it's also crucially affordability and supply of the kind of housing that would support older people for what could be 30 years of their life at pensionable age so it's a real problem now and if we take the cost of housing there is also a substantial challenge for us in Edinburgh because the cost of the average house price for the private owned sector is 38% above the Scottish average and in terms of private rents they have increased by 26% over the last seven years so without enough social affordable rented stock we have a huge problem of demand that is seeing increasing house prices for houses to buy but also for the private rented sector it's leading to a massive pressure on the cost of living for people it's leading to a crisis in the city and that's why we've signed up to the bigger picture of freezing fuel bills action in zero hours contracts and the living wage on the labour side but a key part of solving the housing crisis and the cost of living crisis is making sure that there is enough supply of housing to meet the variety of needs that people have and top of that list needs to be affordable housing for people to rent as well as afford to buy the demand is huge in the social rented sector for every single property that became available through the choice letting system there were 133 bids and that is for an average across all of the houses that were available that begins to give you a sense of just how much of a shortage we have so this is not a future problem it's a current problem and I think we haven't had enough action particularly in the private rented sector so far the housing bill we had this year that has now become an act was a missed opportunity and you can see it in the level of year on year rising in the cost of rent for people who are renting in the city we now have £848 as the average private rent in the city per calendar month that is simply outstripping wages and it's simply outstripping people's capacity to pay for housing in the city and that will have a huge economic impact as we will not be able to attract the people we need to expand our industries whether it's tourism or banking a financial sector so we need urgently to deliver more affordable housing in both the private rented sector the social rented sector and housing for sale and there are three income streams sort out the systemic underfunding local government party discussions on that the local government committee has recommended this transfer housing benefit to local authorities Labour's devolution commission recommended this and finally the point of pension funds to be invested it suits for the social rented sector 25 year house 25 year timelines make it possible for that sector to invest so we need a proper coherent strategy from the Scottish government and I hope we'll hear more about that in the minister's winding up speech on Marko Biadgy to be followed by Richard Lyle please a month ago when we were all getting to know our areas a little bit better one of the volunteers that was in Edinburgh Central that didn't originally come from Edinburgh I just casually referred to an area as those posh new flats at Westfield he was referring to Westfield Avenue which is actually a Dunedin Canmore development of affordable housing it's built to the highest possible standards it's powered by environmentally friendly CHP and it's just generally an attractive place to live and it's also being expanded and outwardly that development that new development is indistinguishable from the luxury flats that go up at quarter mile on the old ERI site and today the only difference in my constituency between the new social housing and the new top end housing is that the Lats are the private ones who've erupt the best locations and charged nine times the city's average salary for a one bedroom flat in between those two sectors we have private equity backed purpose built corporate run student housing that can charge up to £209 per week and is inexplicably exempted by the council from the requirement for all developments to include an affordable housing proportion and then there are some developments that do genuinely fall in between but you know before they start that buy to let landlords will be the biggest customers and the developers know that too I have to say that as someone who's quite sceptical about the role of the private rented sector as Alex Johnson observed in my housing act speech both for tenants and communities actually it's quite a hard thing to face that in these cases many of these homes wouldn't exist without the purchasing power of the rented sector this is building the rented sector in Scotland it's a report by Homes for Scotland looks into the contribution the PRS can make to house building and I see in there something I find quite welcome which is the claim that many properties that are bought to let if their new build are done with a view to selling on and at that stage most move into owner occupation I do wonder therefore and this is one of those notions that sometimes occur to you in a full formed policy idea but whether there might be value in trying to find a way to direct the purchasing power of buy to let landlords towards new build so that more of them happen more new build happens rather than at present where a lot of the buy to let landlords tend to outbid young families, young professionals the older existing housing stock creating some of the issues that Sarah Boyack very eloquently set out for Edinburgh just a thought whatever help that one might offer looking ahead we can't see anything in Edinburgh but that we need more houses we are scheduled to surpass Glasgow in population in the 2020s we have a greater need than most and like the 19th century Russian Empire Edinburgh's frontiers have continued to expand and gobble up the surrounding areas as any leethor will tell you probably still with a little bit of resentment in their voice unless we can find more ways of channeling private development into the brownfield sites in the city centre more towns will go that way and note that I say private development because I think there has been an unhelpful conflation by Labour in particular in their motion and in the opening remarks between the private sector build and the social sector build I have some statistics here for example in the motion in the amendment it says the lowest number of homes since 1947 the Scottish government is broadly responsible for the number of homes it funds but the number of private sector builds are generally beyond our power and when you look at the records over the long term this is one of these debates that doesn't really send you going for philosophy it sends you going for spreadsheets I have the figures here under the last two years in 96, 97, 97, 98 when they did run house building in Scotland or at least had set the budgets for it the private new build was 17,700 Labour's time in office it was 19,900 and since we've taken over it's fallen to 11,400 that's no surprise when you also look at what happened in 2008 when between three quarters between quarter one and quarter four it starts across the UK it went down from 29,290 to 12,010 it's a drastic fall and we all know what happened in 2008 and the private market is still recovering but what we do have is a record on social housing a record that has seen the numbers get higher not only is the average for under SNP budgets been 4,366 as against 3,685 for Labour the average local authority build has been 763 against 49 for Labour but of course that hides the three years where they didn't manage to build any so I would just say to Labour and putting forward their amendments we're not disagreeing that we want more houses to be built if you can think of a way to produce £200 million then please bring it forward nobody is going to be fighting off nothing doesn't make it so and just look at the shelter claim the 10,000 figure is probably quite reasonable where we need to get to but what year in the Labour Party's governance of Scotland did we reach 10,000 I don't think we even got close the highest I see is 4,698 in 2005,6 so those in glass houses should not throw stones I'm out of time it's a very high investment by the Government because of the ending of right to buy we've got more local authority housing and planning changes and regulatory reform and council tax changes will help stimulate more private development but anybody who has ideas on the other side would be very welcome to give them Colin Richard Lyle to be followed by Richard Baker Housing is important for people and communities it's incumbent on us to provide a plan good quality housing as it contributes to strong resilient communities promotes the economic growth within those communities good quality housing can have a positive impact on people's quality of life and reduce additional costs in other areas of public sector budgets such as the health service I remember how she's built in my in the 70s in my local area they had flat roofs in Scotland what madness getting the housing supply right in Scottish communities would ensure more than just access to good housing for all contribute to achieving the Scottish Government's overall position of supporting sustainable economic growth and would help us to achieve the country's full potential to better education on employment opportunities healthier lives and more prosperous and equal society many bodies contribute to housing in Scotland including the Scottish Government, councils financial institutions, landlords regulatory bodies in the construction industry all contribute and all are interlinked and so changes in any one of these sectors will directly affect the others as can changes to external factors such as the strength of the economy as part of this group of key contributors to the housing market in Scotland the Scottish Government has continued to make affordable housing a high priority and has set ambitious targets for housing progress has been made and the Scottish Government has made clear its commitment to deliver affordable homes of which two thirds will be for social rent including 5,000 council houses during the lifetime of this Parliament Scottish Government has continued to increase the budget for affordable homes and will now invest 970 million over the three-year period to March 2015 at which time it's planned to invest a further £391 million this brings the amount as already has been said this Government will spend an affordable housing over the lifetime of this Parliament to more than £1.7 billion indeed, that means that North Lanarkshire will invest £38 million in the three-year programme through 2014-15 and a further £15 million in 2015-16 as a former councillor in North Lanarkshire I remember we didn't build one single council house for years this commitment to building affordable housing has not only benefited those looking to buy one of these homes but it has helped to stimulate the Scottish economy by giving a boost to the construction industry creating countless jobs and providing a valuable income to those who need it No, I won't The construction industry has helped by the Scottish Government's commitment to boosting the demand for home ownership through help-to-buy schemes From the launch of help-to-buy Scotland in September 2013 and May 2014 there were 1220 confirmed sales and 3,749 approved applications for the help-to-buy Scotland Those figures are reassuring and show that the scheme is being used to help people to get on the property ladder and further boost the housing-building market In fact, the benefit of those policies can already be seen as last year saw the first increase in new housing supply since before the recession with a number of new homes in Scotland rising by 7% in the year to March 2014 The figures show that 15,957 new homes were delivered in Scotland in the year to March 2014 an increase of 1,062 new homes from the previous year Even with that increase I, along with everyone in this chamber today recognise that the housing-building industry continues to face a number of challenges I am pleased to see that the Scottish Government is still committed to growing the industry despite those challenges and despite the 26% cut to our capital budget Despite that, I am satisfied that this Government remains committed to an investment-led recovery of more than £8 billion in the next two years will support around 40,000 full-time equivalent jobs across Scotland In order to protect Scotland's social housing Scottish Government has legislated to abolish the right to buy This alone will keep, as already has been said up to 15,500 homes in the social sector This legislation will protect the investment made in social housing over many generations With the removal of the right to buy in Scotland the landlords will now have more confidence to build new homes Presiding Officer, I believe that despite the challenges facing the housing-building sector we are heading in the right direction The initiatives introduced by the Scottish Government has provided an environment where the industry can grow with confidence Housing always has been an emotional subject In my many years previously as a councillor I was able to help nearly 5,000 people gain a council house On referendum day I was humbled by a constituent who thanked me for changing her family's life for helping her to secure a council house many years ago Yes, we all can work together to secure more housing Let's do it I remember in the 70s and quite a few won't remember the 70s but in the 70s the Labour Party and the Tory Party continually said outbidded each other on how many council houses they could build Let's all work together to build a better type of council house a better future for the people of Scotland Thank you, Presiding Officer Thank you for your brevity Now Colin Richard Baker to be followed by Maureen Watt Thank you, Presiding Officer The issue of housing supply in the provision of affordable housing is a particular concern in the north-east Aberdeen has seen the highest increase in house prices anywhere in the UK outside London in Scotland if not the highest and these problems are not confined to the city alone but exist in Aberdeenshire as well Both our local authorities are thousands of people on their waiting lists for social housing The region as a whole is facing a critical situation in terms of housing with too many local people unable to get on the housing ladder and thousands on housing waiting lists So while the success of the oil and gas industry has undoubtedly boosted our local economy this brings with it serious cost of living issues with the price of housing a key factor in that and for those in our community who do not benefit from the prosperity of that industry directly actually makes their situation all the harder the high cost of housing locally has also made it more difficult for employers to recruit to the area with this problem most acute in the public sector which struggles to compete in terms of wages and this has been particularly challenging for our local health services One way of addressing the city and shah's cost of living issues which has been suggested is in Aberdeen waiting and salaries and I understand that that's being actively considered by ministers and that's welcome but the provision of affordable housing and the right strategies from local government and Scottish ministers will also be crucial I'm pleased that Aberdeen city council in their strategic infrastructure plan now proposals which will see the provision of over 2,000 new affordable homes by 2017 and this will make a welcome difference and new housing developments in a city will include the provision of affordable homes a welcome change for what happened under previous council administrations in Aberdeen where commuted payments were accepted rather than developers being obliged to deliver the 20% of new developments as affordable homes and often these payments ended up being returned to the developer this was failing the thousands of people in our city who desperately want affordable homes and so I'm glad a new approach is being taken now so Aberdeen city council is moving forward on the provision of affordable housing but the policy decisions of Scottish ministers in contrast have only served to contribute to the critical situation of lack of housing provision in the area and particularly with regard to social housing others have talked about the impact of the cut in the housing budget and it was also a damaging decision to cut the level of the housing association grant although I'm pleased that ultimately ministers realised their mistake and restored it back to a higher level but nevertheless the effect of these policy decisions in the north-east is told in the falling number of new homes being built and there has been a very significant reduction in response to parliamentary questions I tabled the minister stated that the amount of housing association grant awarded in Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire dropped by over 1.8 million pounds between 2012-13 and 2013-14 additionally Scottish government figures on sector new-build starts show that in 2013-14 only 72 houses were being built in Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire compared to 484 in 2007-08 so Mr Johnson said there might be some rather worrying statistics to come I fear he may well be right so the scale of the failure of Scottish government policy to keep up with demand and address that situation as it in fact is delivering far fewer new homes in the north-east than it did before and I know we often hear from SNP members about the delivery of local authority housing as though important as it is it's the only form of social housing that matters but the fact of the matter is if you're waiting for social housing for a house you can afford if you can't afford the home you need and living in overcrowded conditions or a roof over your head what matters to you is getting an affordable home not whether it's a council or the housing association who are providing it and certainly that's where the Scottish government are falling down when it comes to the situation in the north-east and what's clear from the figures I've quoted given to me by ministers themselves is that in the north-east Scottish government policy is not providing new affordable homes in anything like the quantity which we need so there can be no room for complacency certainly for self-congratulation in a Scottish government's approach to its work on housing provision because frankly that self-congratulation is simply not justified and the current policy is contributing to the problems in the north-east in terms of housing costs and housing provision but with the referendum now passed this at least gives ministers the chance to now focus on the day job once more and for the north-east an area whose economic importance should know well it's now vital that they concentrate minds and efforts on delivering the new and affordable homes the region needs many thanks Maureen Watt after which removed the closing speeches six minutes thank you very much debates on housing in this chamber are rarely consensual with opposition parties for ever saying that the incumbent government could always be doing more this is always done without the recognition of the current austerity budget situation that that is a 26 per cent cut in real terms over the period 2010-11 to 2015-16 cuts which were planned by Alistair Darling and implemented by George Osborne and we await where the 25 billion pounds of further cuts from Westminster will fall Mary Fee in her opening speech failed to say how many of the 200,000 homes promised by Labour are for England alone or for across the UK and if the latter is the case how many are planned for Scotland and how it is to be paid for given that Labour asserts they're sticking to the condemn coalition government austerity measures and do not intend to increase borrowing perhaps Mr Kelly will enlighten us in his closing remarks I do hope so as a Westminster election looms and the voters deserve nothing less Mrs Fee doesn't like the fact that despite Westminster cuts social housing completions between 2008 and 2014 were up 28 per cent on the period from 2001 to 2007 when 27,314 were completed and Mr Kelly with his intervention to my colleague Jim Aide again failed to recognise that this government is doing more for less money that is something of course that the Labour Party completely failed to recognise that a government can do by being smarter 4,000 of these new homes were built through the government's investment of over 135 million to the council house building programme a programme which allowed the SNP administration in Aberdeen from 2007 to 11 to begin a council house building programme for the first time in a generation building good quality sustainable housing upwards of 100 units in March burn tilly drone, cults and other parts of Aberdeen now of course we'd all like to build more houses and reduce the waiting the times people spend on waiting lists but we have to live within the fixed budget from Westminster and no opposition speaker has said where that money might come from Mr Johnson he mentioned the use of pension funds and mentioned Aberdeen while the Aberdeen administration which includes the Tories or is it now one Tory the others have left, I'm not sure might have changed since I stood up we find that the administration in Aberdeen rejected the SNP amendment to build double the amount of houses that they were proposing and instead opting for fewer houses and not to mention where the money comes from a great ambition Mr Baker from the Labour-led administration the reticence of public body pension funds to invest in the safe bet of housing is very disappointing since it is public money Mr Rowley mentioned private and social housing partnerships and in this regard he makes a good point about trying to make this work however I wonder if he thinks that the current section 75 consents currently do work in relation to housing throughout Aberdeen there is construction going on everywhere housing blocks, business parks and housing all this despite folks that the oil is about to run out if you believe our opponents I visited one of these private developments yesterday in Aberdeen a development of our 350 houses and only 15 per cent were required to be affordable housing and then only provided in phase 3 that means in three years time. Similarly in Aberdeenshire in the new town of Chappelson of Elswick the affordable housing element is similarly very low and very far down the line. In 2013 the north east accounted for 18.7 of all house building in Scotland but far too much of this I agree with Richard Baker was high end and not affordable housing which we need to buy or rent so I wonder if the housing minister and the local government and planning minister do believe that the section 75 system is working to provide the necessary affordable housing. Housing associations throughout Scotland face a difficult situation but not as difficult in England where the government contribution can be as low as £1,000 per unit but like all borrowers the main problem facing housing associations is the banks the interest rate for borrowing has gone up substantially as have the other terms and conditions even when the housing associations are sitting on fairly substantial deposits and our housing associations served well by the section 75 consents where they don't really want small pockets of housing within large private housing estates which they find very difficult to manage and to get back to Mr Rowley's point I do think there is some good practice in some parts I can think of one north east builder a couple of years ago where every house builder was facing a downturn but in conjunction with the government they built the affordable housing element of the housing estate first and finally Gordon MacDonald mentioned the availability of land and the use of brownfield sites and I totally agree with him so finally from the bottom of my heart the work undertaken by the housing minister the justice secretary and the finance secretary and their civil servants to take up my plea to use the vacant site of Craig Inch's prison for socially rented housing for key workers especially in the health service and for sanctuary housing for taking this forward this is the kind of initiative work finding new ways of doing things that this government is getting on with not griping from the sidelines as the opposition amendments do I support the motion six minutes many have highlighted the crisis that we face with the housing today we can hardly say it's been a consensual debate as Maureen Watt emphasised and then went on to make probably the least consensual comments of all Alex Rowley mentioned many facts but in particular quoted from Shelter stating that we have 65,000 households in Scotland overcrowded which I would agree was unacceptable Hans Alamalek went on to mention over 150,000 in council house waiting lists my own research or FOIs that I did the stats found that there are actually 170,000 live applications waiting for a council house never mind the housing association waiting lists 33,000 households we're still waiting on after five years on a council house and 30,000 households languishing on lists for more than 10 years and since SNP have come into power we do have 11,000 fewer socially rented homes available to let Ken Mackintosh mentioned Audit Scotland and they of course stated that we do need an extra half a million new homes in the next 25 years that's 20,000 per year in 2007-2008 we achieved with private houses 20 well nearly just under 26,000 this last year 2013-14 that was down to 14,700 odd so there is a dramatic shortfall and it's inevitable that we are facing a crisis Jim Eadie, Mike Mackenzie Margaret Burgess herself Stuart McMillan all made us aware that one of the Scottish Government's flagship commitments was to deliver 30,000 affordable homes in the lifetime of this Parliament as the ministers motion says they have delivered over 21,000 homes thus far and are successfully delivering on this new target and I say new as that was not the original target which was promised in the SNP manifesto that commitment was to deliver 30,000 social rent homes in the lifetime of this Parliament that's 6,000 a year not the 4,000 a year which are actually being delivered so it would barely impact the boxes in our offices after the 2011 election before that commitment was significantly watered down which is unfortunate when you consider that hundreds of thousands of people are on waiting lists for social rent housing thousands of first time buyers now cannot access Government help and will likely have to delay their plans to purchase a property and that the chartered Institute of Housing in Scotland has called for at least 5,500 homes for social rent to be delivered each year housing needs projections considerably underestimate actual supply needs we must not forget those who already have a home but whose living conditions may be substandard there are currently 65,000 households in Scotland living in overcrowded conditions Ken Macintosh highlighted living in such conditions with limited personal space and peace can lead to significant impacts on a person's health and wellbeing as well as familial relationships unfortunately the Government here has done nothing to improve this situation according to the 2012 Scottish House condition survey which actually stated and I quote the change in the number of households and dwellings below the bedroom standard in Scotland has remained more or less constant since the last 10 years Jamie Hepburn mentioned substandard properties it was actually the Lib Dem Labour Administration which introduced the Scottish housing quality standard to drive up the quality of dwellings managed by social landlords however it is clear that this Government has somewhat to do because as recently as the end of March last year there were still over 100,000 properties in the public sector stock failing that standard I have looked at the latest data available from the Scottish housing regulator which demonstrates that progress has been made and the questions are that when the commitment is due to be met there there will be at least 2,400 properties still failing that standard the majority of these failures are likely to be the responsibility of just two local authorities for poor energy efficiency and a lack of modern facilities and I would like to know what the minister is doing to ensure that those households aren't left behind and having to put that with poorly insulated homes and a lack of all the mods cons that we have taken for granted many have mentioned that the referendum is behind us so I'm pleased with that just regarding insulated homes the minister did mention retrofitting an extra 4.5 million for that that's good but we have to look at standards of new builds it's cheaper to make sure the new builds are up to standard rather than retrofitting and regarding new powers of course Mary Fee was quick to mention the new powers coming hopefully help us all in a consensual and working together manner deliver better housing for all of us in Scotland other contributors today we've had Marco Biagi Richard Baker Sarah Boyack and of course Gordon MacDonald all mentioned the problems of inner city housing and the expense of that and obviously Brownfield versus Greenfield there are other issues in more remote areas which haven't really been mentioned today regarding housing where it's seen as a presumption against development in many planning issues today unfortunately the Lib Dems can't support the Government's motion as it insults I think the intelligence of tens of thousands of people in Scotland currently affected by an inability to buy a property an ability to rent a social home or even escaped an overcrowded one to use as many routes to tackle our housing crisis as possible and concur with Labour with their motion although I don't think we can blame the housing act of this year but more of the lack of governance and priority of this Government thank you very much now Colin Alex Johnson six minutes are there by please thank you very much deputy sometimes in a speech at the close of a debate it becomes necessary to start talking about real fundamentals today I think it's time for some fundamentals and I'll start with saying a very simple thing I've said it in this chamber before so it's no surprise to many of you I am not a socialist now that some of you may realise some of you may realise that doesn't necessarily make me a bad person conversely I realise that many in this chamber who would describe themselves as socialists in fact good people themselves however it goes right to the very root of what we've been talking about today because while I'm not a socialist I am a capitalist I believe that capital its use, its preservation and its reuse can deliver for us and deliver time after time I believe that those of us who during the debate today who have talked about capital budgets and talked about capital as if it was something to be consumed do not understand what the nature of capital is it is money that can be used more than once and if properly invested will grow over time the idea that we should use Government bonds ultimately as collateral against borrowing which we use to build houses simply makes no sense to me houses should be collateral for their own borrowing they have a value we should not build houses that cannot generate the resource that it costs to service that borrowing or return it or recover it at the end of its period this is why I believe that housing public housing affordable housing social housing whatever you want to call it is a perfect place for capital to be properly used and that's why I believe it is so important that we get away from the concept of tax and spend as the means of providing affordable housing and start to think about its value in cash terms as well as in its broader term I will give way in just a second but to account for some of the comments that were made Mike McKinsey earlier asked where the money would come from and John Mason said what would we cut to build these additional houses well neither of these questions need to be asked if we understand better where capital can be sourced and how it can be effectively used to build something which is vitally important to society necessary to those who have not a home and yet can be done through private investment I'll take both of you John Mason first then Will the member accept that it's all very well talking about sourcing capital but there's a return it's like a loan they have to get a better return whereas a grant cuts down the cost of the rent Of course that is exactly the case but I know of investors today who are keen to invest at the rate of return which is available in the marketplace for affordable housing which could be subsidised by local authorities to provide the social element which is necessary Mike McKinsey Thank you very much for taking the intervention I do think that there is some merit in what you are suggesting about seeking alternative sources of capital but what interests me and what I wonder if you can explain the capitalism that you describe and are a fan of why is it that the market hasn't already provided our housing solution for us why is there such a grievous shortage of housing Alex Johnston What I'm saying today is that I know of investors who want to participate in this and at the moment local authorities like Aberdeen and Edinburgh are looking at the possibility that they need the encouragement and support of the Scottish Government to give those cities the confidence to go ahead with those deals and in many parts of Scotland the opportunity to build housing is right in front of us and it is vital as we've heard from so many speakers today we heard particularly from Richard Baker about the fact that there is a desperate shortage of affordable housing in Aberdeen but let's just look a little deeper Aberdeen is a city which relies for its economic success in many cases on immigrant labour from Eastern Europe why is it so much easier to recruit from Eastern Europe in Aberdeen than it is to recruit from other parts of Scotland the answer is a simple one and that is the availability of housing if we cannot provide affordable housing in Aberdeen then why would anyone from one of Scotland's unemployment black spots choose to move to the north-east to take up the opportunities that exist there there's one other issue that I have to address briefly before I come to the end and that was mentioned by a number of people including Hanzala Malik, Jim Hume and others and that is the issue of overcrowding overcrowding is a problem in social housing and many many people in Scotland are on waiting lists to get into bigger houses that can contain their families to a very difficult period in Scotland when we've talked about the under occupancy charge or as some would call it the bedroom tax but the objective of that policy was to try and free up under occupied houses which we know exist in Scotland and make them available for those who need them most okay we've been through that phase and that's effectively now behind us with funding in place to displace the cost but it leaves us with a problem of overcrowding and I think it is probably time that this Government began to talk with the rest of us about how we might encourage people to vacate under occupied property and deliver larger homes for those who should desperately need them Thanks much and I'll call on James Kelly 8 minutes please Thank you Deputy Presiding Officer when I first saw that housing supply was going to be debated I very much welcomed it because it's such a major issue in many of our communities and constituencies but I'm afraid the tone of the Government motion and also of the Minister's opening statement was one of self-congratulation which didn't really address many of the issues that we see in terms of housing in our areas I think in terms of the debate a lot of people, as happens in these debates and both sides have used statistics to try and deploy and back up their arguments and I think if the Minister's looking to try and take something practical from the debate I hope she'll have listened to some of the contributions some of the personal experiences that people have shared with the chamber because that tells the real story of the housing crisis that we face in Scotland Mary Fee, for example, told us that there are increased waiting lists in 10 of 28 local authorities Alec Rowley shared the experience of a constituent staying in an overcrowded accommodation in Recife that was covered in condensation Ken Macintosh told us of the constituent who couldn't find affordable social housing and was staying with two kids and private rented accommodation where the rents were unacceptably high Jamie Hepburn told us about the slum conditions in some parts of his constituency and Zala Malik told us about families living in overcrowded accommodation Sarah Boyack and Gordon MacDonald both told us about the need for more affordable homes in Edinburgh and Richard Baker noted the unacceptably high rent levels in Aberdeen Those are the issues that members have shared in this debate and these highlight the platform for the way forward I give way to Mark O'Villagy I'm sure we all recognise the problem in your amendment you suggest that the Scottish Government should produce a national housing action plan to ensure that these matters are fully addressed with the exception of £200 million which is just one measure that would address these problems If you'd just like me to develop a contribution that was what I was actually moving on to In actual fact what we should be trying to explore in the debate is how we tackle the issues how we move things forward and this to be fair is something that John Mason tried to do in his contribution and the first and foremost I think we need to look at the issue of how do we actually try and build more homes you know there's a drastic shortage of supplies but how do we actually go about building more homes and releasing the funding from that We heard from Alec Rowley and others about the use of pension funds £24 billion in local authority pension funds Surely the Government has got to look more closely at that area in order to address how best some of those funds can be released in order to support house building It's not just also about hard money it's about how it's done Again Alec Yes or go away Given that part of this problem not the whole story but part of the story is the loss of housing stock through lack of repair and it eventually having to be demolished On that basis would you support a reduction of VAT to 5% or perhaps less if possible on housing repairs and improvements The member can put forward that suggestion at the appropriate time I think what we've got to do is tackle some of the issues that we've got responsibility for as a Parliament Some people knows Bench's challenge on how things could be funded Now that the independence referendum has been settled we now have £2 billion of borrowing powers coming to this Parliament and that's something that can be used to help the housing crisis One of the things Labour has suggested in terms of future devolution is the devolution of housing benefit That's £1.7 billion We can look at how that can be used better by local authorities to support housing building £432 million of that goes to private landlords Surely there's got to be a better way of doing that I think we've also got to look at just in practical terms how we use the planning system taking good practical examples The example in Fife that Alec Rowley spoke about built in 2,700 homes it wasn't just a case of pumping the money in there it was all about how they spoke to house builders how they identified the best land that they could acquire at a cheapest cost So we've got to look at how examples of best practice from around the country can be used I think we also need to address the issues in the private rented sector which has doubled to £386,000 The minister at the time the SNP didn't support my amendments in terms of security of tenure and also tackling rent levels and the minister tells us today that a stakeholder group had been set up in May and that we had a discussion and they were looking at taking forward some of these issues and now there's going to be a consultation later in the year and that is part of the problem I think with the SNP Government it's the slow progress that is made when the issues are identified No, I want to take two interventions and I want to make some progress So I think I think that these issues do have to be addressed Also, I think that Mackintosh made some reasonable practical points on the help to buy We've heard that the money has run out by August anybody applying after August won't have access to the help to buy scheme and we'll need to wait until next year when new monies come into being and at £100 million that's less than what's available this year So I think the Government needs to look at how the scheme is operating if there's a set amount of money available for a year how do they ensure that that money is released into the market during the period of the year and how it is fairly handled I mean, ultimately I think that if there's been a lot of talk in recent times about a fairer Scotland and I think that that's something we all want to achieve in this chamber we all want to see a fairer Scotland and it's difficult to achieve that in housing when you've got 150,000 people on housing waiting list it's difficult to get a fairer Scotland when the budgets have been cut by 29% as noted by Audit Scotland it's difficult to get a fairer Scotland when people are staying in accommodation and rents are going through the roof there's been far too much self-congratulation on the SNP benches and what we need is more practical action I hope the minister has listened to some of the contributions that are made and in us summing up outlines a practical way forward to deal with Scotland's housing crisis Many thanks I now call on Margaret Burgess to wind up the debate on behalf of the Government Minister you have until 5 o'clock OK, thank you, Presiding Officer and I think there has been a lot of agreement in this debate that housing is a very important matter and a priority for Scotland and certainly there is no complacency in this my part or that of the Government and we have not suggested for a minute that everything's OK and everything and the bed is rosy and we demand for housing that over the lifetime of this Parliament we plan to invest £1.7 billion in affordable housing and I think that this is not about being self-congratulatory, it's saying we recognise that housing is important it's an absolute priority it has impact on people's lives and communities and out of our very limited resources we plan to invest £1.7 billion a billion of which has already been invested and I do think that although we are getting all this criticism about the shortage of supply and the need for affordable and social housing yes, I think it is right to say that we have built more social housing and more social housing than any other administration I'll take an intervention later but there are a number of things that have been raised during the debate that I really think have to be responded to but I will take Sarah Boyack's intervention shortly because we say that we are building houses we are building more houses than previous administrations but what I didn't say was that that was enough I'll take Sarah Boyack's intervention Can I just observe that Donald Dure's ambition was not just to build new houses but to regenerate and repair and maintain the thousands of houses in Glasgow that were simply substandard and not fit for purpose I think nobody's disagreeing with that as well as the quality of housing and the standards of housing and we're working towards that as well and I think we've got to get the balance but we need to have new houses being built we need to have houses at affordable rent and also houses that meet the needs of local communities because the Scottish Government doesn't build the houses the Scottish Government is not a landlord and a number of people mentioned the condition of some of the houses in the area and suggested that I go along and see them being talked about there the same conditions apply in my area through years of neglect in some instances of local authorities who neglected properties didn't bring them up to standard and that's why that's happened the Scottish Government is not the landlord and we're doing what we can through helping with Scottish Government resources to ensure that houses are getting brought up to standards and if local authorities are not doing that and landlords are not doing that then the regulator will report on that so I want to say that at the outset I also want to try and say a bit about the pensions that Alex Johnson has talked about the pension schemes and the investors the Scottish Government does not control the pension schemes we don't have any control over local authority pensions but what we can do is work with the scheme holders the local authorities financers and others to encourage them to invest in social housing and we're doing that just now and I think that we're about to see the first model taking off and that's in the Falkirk area and this castle rock end of our housing association as well so that's important to get a model that others can follow so we haven't been sitting back doing nothing about that we've been working very hard the Scottish Government has a in the housing portfolio has a financial innovation unit and they work their socks off trying to get schemes up and running it's not about as Alex Johnson suggested an investor coming in and saying here's the money, I'll build the houses it takes a lot of partners and I think Richard Lyle mentioned the number of partners involved in getting a model off the ground we think we've got a model now that will be an example for other pension funds and providers to come in and take forward and that is a step forward and we're always looking at ways to move forward in that also there was some suggestion that I'm now back in the day job I've never been off the day job I spent a lot of time going round looking at developments talking to tenants talking to residents about what matters to them and that helped shape what we do as a Government and the private sector was mentioned by a number of people particularly the Edinburgh members Mark Obey Agile, Gordon MacDonald and Sarah Boyack mentioned the private sector and I'm very much aware that the private renting in some parts of Scotland in particular Aberdeen and Edinburgh rent levels are increasing and we're not complacent about this matter and I said this during the housing which is now the housing act but that's why we will continue to support affordable rents as well as working with the house building industry to increase institutional investment for the building of more new homes for private rent I'll take one more In the intervention, if you're not complacent about affordable rents why is it taking you all summer and you've not launched a consultation to look into that issue? As I come back on and I was going to come up to the point that James Kelly made that we are too slow in doing things we actually believe in consultation we believe in taking our stakeholders on board and actually tenants and residents and that's why we're doing it we didn't just fire out questions to them and say he's what we're consulting on we asked them for their views we asked the group that had formed to do this we're doing it what we think is the right way because unless we take our stakeholders on board and get this right then it won't work for anybody so I don't think it's wrong to say we believe in consultation and as wide as possible because this is an important matter we've also recently funded through Homes for Scotland after they've produced their building the rented sector report a private rented sector champion to attract new investment in the private rented sector so we're taking that forward as well we're looking at every way possible to drive forward housing supply in Scotland and we'll continue to do so the powers perhaps the evolved powers coming from Westminster have been talked about and what we've said as a Government we will listen to anything that comes to Scotland that's going to improve the lives of people in Scotland and we'll wait to see what we get but we're not shutting our minds to anything that could come forward because it's very important that we do increase housing supply in Scotland and we will look at that but none of the opposition parties today have given us any indication of what they would do we've heard about an additional 200 million pounds in housing per year we've heard about increasing the targets there's no indication whatsoever of how we're going to get about doing that so I think what we're doing just now with our baseline target of 6,000 pounds which we are and which we will meet in the lifetime of this Parliament and which we hope to exceed is the right way to go about it because we have committed to this and we're working towards it and we'll continue to do so a number of other points being made during the debate on the criticism of the Scottish Government and I have to say in terms of the Liberal Democrats' intervention I just couldn't understand where they're coming from or where the figures came from or anything else about it we simply have a net to talk about increased capital spending when them, their colleagues at Westminster cut capital spending and cut the Scottish budget so I think that has to be recognised and also the point that Alex Rowley made that housing is not just about the Scottish Government it's about local authorities and other partners I was very clear about that at the outset of my speech that we can't do this alone we have to have the stakeholders on board and that's the local authorities housing associations, tenants, residents groups developers, homes for Scotland every day and every organisation homeless organisations involved in housing in Scotland and we consult with them every single possible opportunity and we'll continue to do that and more importantly we also listen to them and that helps shape where we are going and I think it is important we do have organisations such as Shelter that produce evidence to us that we can look at and move forward based on that and I said at the start of my speech that we were holding a major housing event in the 18th of November and that event has been built up with all our stakeholders on board we'll continue to take them on board and they will help us develop where we go forward in housing in Scotland and how we deliver housing but we heard a lot of stories about people no I'm not taking any more interventions I've taken several but we've heard a lot about the bad stories we've heard about the housing conditions for people and I recognise that at the outset that for people who are still waiting in a new home it is a challenge it's not a lot of consolation to them to talk about those that do have their new homes but I do think I have to recognise I've travelled throughout Scotland and looked at some of the initiatives that the Scottish Government has taken forward and I can give three examples one in Melville Housing Association where the Housing Association had developed new houses social rent very similar part of a new development of owner occupied properties you can't tell the difference and the tenants were absolutely delighted the elderly couple in Doon who had got a new social rented house and absolutely what they said to me and it struck home if we'd sat down years ago and planned what kind of house we would want to live in in our retirement what would we want to do and they said this is what we would want we could not have got anything better and this is what we expect and that's what we are trying to do for everyone in Scotland we want that ambition for everyone because our ambition is that everybody should live in a house that they can afford that's safe and warm and meets their needs thank you thank you minister that concludes the debate on housing supply we now move to the next side of business which is decision time there are four questions to be put as a result of today's business can I remind members in relation to today's debate if the amendment in the name of Mary Fee is agreed the amendment in the name of Alex Johnson falls the first question is that amendment number 1103.1 in the name of Mary Fee which seeks to amend motion number 1103 in the name of Margaret Burgess on housing supply be agreed to are we all agreed the Parliament's not agreed we move to vote members should cast their votes now the result of the vote on amendment number 1103.1 in the name of Mary Fee is as follows yes 44 no 71 there were no abstentions the amendment is therefore not agreed to next question is amendment number 1103.3 in the name of Alex Johnson which seeks to amend motion number 1103 in the name of Margaret Burgess on housing supply be agreed to are we all agreed the Parliament's not agreed we move to vote members should cast their votes now the result of the vote are amendment number 1103.3 in the name of Alex Johnson is as follows yes 15 no 100 there were no abstentions the amendment is therefore not agreed to the next question is amendment number 1103.2 in the name of Jim Hulme which seeks to amend motion number 1103 in the name of Margaret Burgess on housing supply be agreed to are we all agreed Parliament is not agreed we move to vote members should cast their votes now the result of the vote on amendment number 1103.2 in the name of Jim Hulme is as follows yes 44 no 111 there were no abstentions the amendment is therefore not agreed to the next question is at motion number 1103 in the name of Margaret Burgess on housing supply be agreed to are we all agreed the Parliament is not agreed we move to vote members should cast their votes now the result of the vote of motion number 1103 in the name of Margaret Burgess is as follows yes 60 no 52 there were two abstentions the motion is therefore agreed to that concludes decision time we move to members business