 The Cube at OpenStack Summit at Lata 2014 is brought to you by Brocade. Say goodbye to the status quo and hello to Brocade. And Red Hat. Here are your hosts, John Furrier and Stu Miniman. Okay, welcome back everyone. We're here live in Atlanta for the OpenStack Summit. This is The Cube, our flagship program. We go out to the events. We strike the students from the noise. I'm John Furrier, the founder of SiliconANGLE. I'm John Furrier with my co-host. This week's Stu Miniman, analyst at wikibond.org. Our next guest is Diane Mueller, open chef community manager for Red Hat. Welcome back. We talked last year. I remember we had a great segment last year. Boy, a lot's changed in one year. Also, we had the pleasure of bringing The Cube to the Red Hat Summit, which was really a great event. It was awesome to have you here. It was eye-opening for us. I didn't know you had so many deck employees working for Red Hat. Digital, different gurus working for Red Hat. You know, Red Hat has originated in Westford, Massachusetts, and deck is, you know, that's the home of deck. They post all the talent out on deck, which is deck has had one of the best architectures on the planet. They just missed the PC revolution. But anyway, that's a whole other Cube conversation. Yeah, that'll show our age really quickly. No, I mean, deck. What is deck? So, give us the update. What's happened, your perspective on the one year since last year? But then, since the Red Hat Summit, what's the big conversations? What are the things that you're involved in right now? What I'm involved in here specifically at the OpenStack Summit is using OpenStack's native heat orchestration tool set to deploy OpenShift, the platform as a service project that I work on. We are, you know, demonstrating doing that. And I think what we're seeing now is sort of the maturity of heat as a project coming on board and being used in a number of enterprises and a number of customer sites to actually get heat and use that as the orchestration tool set for deploying not just OpenShift but lots of other things. So heat's been really up and coming now and becoming a real valuable asset to the OpenStack ecosystem. So that's been great. So being able to use heat or puppet or whatever wheel you want for deploying has been one of the key pieces of the OpenShift mantra in getting your platform as a service established on whatever your infrastructure is. That's been one of the key things we've been working on here. So Diane, since last year, you know, boy, as John said, there's been so much change. I think at Red Hat Summit, Docker really was like one of the biggest discussions which seems to be one of the top things that platform as a service is supposed to deliver is that separation of my application from my infrastructure so that I can manage them separately. Cloud Foundry, of course, has made a lot of people pay attention again to what's going on in this space with everything that's going on. So when you think back to last year in Portland to now, walk us through what's changing in the discussions, what's the same, where's the activity? Yeah. So there's a lot of activity around Docker, especially at Red Hat. We have engineers working embedded into the Docker engineering community. So there's been a lot of work there. We're getting Docker ready to be a first-class citizen inside of OpenShift. So if you look in the GitHub repo under GearD, you can see a lot of the open-source work that's been going on in the Open that on making OpenShift utilize Docker images. The thing about Docker that's so amazing is the rapid growth of the images that are available already today in the Docker index. And we have sort of a counterpart to that is cartridges and quick starts in the OpenShift universe. And so to take, you know, we have five or 600 quick starts and cartridges that are available in the community, but the Docker index is just growing like at light speed. So I think there's, that must be just around 2000. I mean, I must have hit that breaking point by now. And so all of those images will be available to be deployed in OpenShift using GearD and the other orchestration tools that we're building into OpenShift and making available. So we had a comment on our crowd chat yesterday. Chris had the top, really, vote of all the, so far, the conference. And this is not on the building, but around containers. OpenStack needs to make containers a first-class citizen. Any arguments against this? Question mark. And then comment. There's a long-ass thread you see. It's really good. But Rich Miller, who's the thought leader of Cube Alumni, said, I would make a strong statement without acknowledgement and real leadership in embracing containers, OpenStack will fail to gain traction. And that's a pretty heavy statement. What's your take on that? I mean, do you guys... I know at Red Hat, we're doing a lot of work in the Docker community and to make Docker a first-class citizen, both on OpenStack and with OpenShift. So I think it's going to be a reality rather quickly. And I don't have any hesitation in saying that Docker has got the momentum right now. And I think we will see the community contributions to make it a first-class citizen inside of the OpenStack ecosystem as well. So what's your take on the cloud now? I want to get your perspective from the stepping back and looking down at the industry. What's going on at the customer levels? Because at the end of the day, customers matter. A lot of customers are not coming forward. People are saying, oh, competitive advantage. A lot of secret sauce going on. Yeah, it's got some names on it. But you don't see a huge, not a parade of customers, but there's a ton of customer conversations happening. What are you seeing in the customer landscape about the cloud architectures? So I work on the open source side and on the community side. And actually, I do see a parade of customers and community contributions going on. A lot of people using... It's legit. There are tons of customers. There are tons of customers out there. I think maybe sometimes the way that we interact with them obfuscates who they are because they don't self-identify as contributors. I think that's one of the issues we always see in open source communities is that customers end up having red hat do the submissions for them for patches and contributions. So that's a little bit of a tough thing that we have to deal with. And no one likes to come out. It's definitely a competitive advantage to use the open source tools and especially using red hats secret sauces. I actually don't think we have any secret sauces. All of our stuff is in GitHub. It's how the customers are rolling them up. That's a secret sauce, how they deploy and how they're architecturing them. Yeah, and I think it's the variations on the themes. And I'm seeing a lot of variations on the themes around storage. People using SEF or Gluster or we do a lot of work helping other people deploy OpenShift particularly on lots of different infrastructures. I think that the thing and one of the keys here is the interoperability. OpenStack, we see a lot of movement towards that, a lot of POCs a lot of production level work being done on OpenStack these days. But we also see this the ability to have your different layers deploy on different infrastructure as a service or even on bare metal. So for us it's the interoperability piece that's key. So making sure, for me one of the keys is to make sure that OpenShift deploys anywhere with whatever set of tools that enterprise is looking to use. So that's really I think. So Diane, what are you seeing in those companies that are building cloud? The cloud service providers, the managed hosting guys what's the latest on how they're building the infrastructure and what challenges they're facing? So I think, and it's been talked about here there aren't a lot of OpenStack ninjas out there to be hired. So if you are an OpenStack ninja and you shouldn't be looking for a job because everybody's looking for you these days and I think that education is one of the key things is that Red Hat has great certification programs for different pieces of OpenStack and that's really been a method to grow people into the skill sets in order to deploy them. So we have OpenShift certification and OpenStack certification stuff that's going on that you can take those lessons but I think as a community we have pretty good documentation for both OpenStack and other things but we need to grow more I don't want more rock stars I want more people who can actually deploy this stuff and actually use it in production services because we have consulting services, it's great, it's wonderful but I really want this stuff to be dead simple to deploy and use and it's going to be a big customization How much do we need to build those new ninjas and how much will things like heat simplify things there's got to be that balance of the experts and the generalists but where do you see that playing out over the next few years? Heat is a good example of this what we've had is huge community contributions from the heat community from the OpenStack community to make the templates available for OpenShift to deploy on any OpenStack distro which is a great opportunity for people to learn heat but I think what we really need is even better education materials even better certification and training programs if you were going to start up a new business now training would be a great thing to start up because I think the certification of getting people the confidence I think that's the other piece of it this stuff is not rocket science it shouldn't be rocket science it should be a rockstar to deploy OpenStack but you do need some of the basics you need the basic understandings of how everything is deployed the different tool sets and you don't need to reinvent the wheel the tools are out there but you do need some confidence to get those skill sets just because NASA was part of helping to create this we don't need rocket science actually so I was reading through pouring through the result from the user survey and they pulled out the documentation for OpenStack has gotten pretty good so can you speak to the training, the education where have we come, what still needs to be done a great shout out to Ann Gentel and to the folks at OpenStack who have really made a great effort to make sure the documentation is there I'm not saying that the documentation is there that's definitely wonderful and very easy and useful I think what we're seeing now is the next stage we have the people who are the architects of OpenStack that are here at the OpenStack Summit but the OpenStack Summit now is bringing in the users and people are coming in and they want a session on how do I deploy OpenStack they want the training on that they really want to know the knowledge, the hands on knowledge so I suspect that maybe the next OpenStack there'll be training sessions there'll be hands on sessions where you can learn to deploy this stuff and that's really what we're looking for the next stage here we mentioned hiring I was joking the other day once you update your LinkedIn profile the word OpenStack on there is huge demand for DevOps candidates and I say DevOps because this is a DevOps show, let's face it we called it the other day, it's a DevOps show but DevOps is the future this is where it's going Linux is not the same playbook it was where you can update your bones in your business but it's a cloud version of it which is not orthogonal at all it's just a different approach that's DevOps that's Linux in the cloud pretty much Linux is the underlying factor in most clouds that we're seeing today so if you have those basic Linux sysadmin skills or if you come up through the puppet and you're a DevOps kind of person it's been an interesting evolution to see the developers who learn to be sysadmin so they get their stuff up and running and the ops people who have learned the dev side because everything has become programmable if you think about what puppet and chef and Anciple and other tool sets are they're basically programmable interfaces for the infrastructure and so the ops people have become developers too so it's a new universe what's interesting is you mentioned sysadmin Linux has become a first class citizen in the enterprise it wasn't when it started it was a cheap alternative to the other guys the proprietary high license and then it got a great position and through open source it became the deal it's now the primary but what's also becoming a first class are the people who got behind Linux so if you look at Linux who won with Linux besides the money makers and the VC sysadmin where those guys evolve into so now there I'm not going to say there were second class citizens but let's face it they were cogs on the wheels of IT deploying some servers they were key parts of managing a button on the ship if you will but now those guys are in a systems architecture that's why I brought up the deck comment it's a systems operating system we've kind of come full circle for me as a programmer from way back in the deck days and coding was an art form and you were a craft person and then it got really complicated and all that but now we've come to the full circle where the sysadmin side of things has become a programming art as well and so we've actually come so that the skill sets from being a developer and being an ops person have kind of merged my point is those people are now first class primary citizens in this re-engineering competitive environment you talk about sysadmin becoming the key keys to the kingdom and linux has lifted all the boats and the people and the talent and I think linux has done that and the cloud has done that too because it's given us the computing resources and the agility to take linux to the next level and to really move forward it's interesting we're talking all about linux too but there's a lot of dotnet out there too now in the cloud and so azure it's getting there so I wouldn't put them out to pasture well give us a try that's a whole other cube thing don't get me going on dotnet god can riff on that for a long time I'll be installing visual studio I think linux is a little bit more efficient than dotnet but that's a whole different discussion Diane so I want to guess to the final word here we got a break I want you to tell the folks in your own words why is this point in time in the industry so important tell the folks who aren't on the inside why all the actions happening right now well it's a convergence of lots of skill sets like we said the ops guys the cloud architects the linux kernel people the docker people coming in and really making real portable images for all the different applications and platforms and frameworks that we're using so what we're seeing is the accessibility of a huge polyglot of different applications and frameworks and services that now are we have this amazing tool set that's really easy to deploy so I think we're going to see the next generation of application development and services on the base of the cloud and it's just going to be exponential I mean we have really created the perfect enablement situation for everybody to go from idea to concept to production really rapidly with with the resources now very very accessible well certainly your job is getting more and more excited the community is getting bigger the contributors are growing soon we'll be measuring things in market share total adjustable market once this industry gets built and I think exponential is a great word thanks for coming on the Q really appreciate the conversation we'll be right back with our next guest here on the Q after this short break alright keep it open