 عوض بالله من الشيطان الرجيم بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم السلات والسلام على أشرف الأنبياء وسيد المرسلين حبيبنا ونبينا وشفيع نفوسنا أب القاسم وحمد المستفى صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم وعلى آله الطيبين الطاهرين الغر الميامين المظلمين والعنط الله على عدائهم أجمعين السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاتو my beloved brothers and sisters and respected viewers welcome back to our show as always I'm your host علي برجي and with us none other but سيد شبير كرماني السلام عليكم سيد العزيز I've been informed that inshallah this will be our last show for the blessed month of Ramadan I also would like to comment that Allahu Akbar how fast has this month of Ramadan passed honestly yeah I I don't even recall when did we start fasting and aides on the corner Subhan Allah indeed these are the signs of our time may Allah hasten the reappearance of Imam al-Hudja Imam al-Mahdi inshallah with that being said today we shall continue our discussion with regards to the leadership in our communities and would like to point out what is actually the right way of leading in our communities and inshallah سيد كرماني will expand and will discuss now for any of you who would like to join our discussion or would like to ask a question please by all means do so I urge you to contribute at the end of the day we're all benefiting from this and the lines will be available during the second half of our show and inshallah I will inform you and obviously the numbers will be available at the lower bottom of your screens now we can begin with regards to leadership and how effective it is in our communities بسم الله سيدنا بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم لطيفة in our communities is really what we're talking about what we've been talking about in these past few nights in our previous episodes and the whole notion is to get to a point where we can cultivate we can help groom good leaders for the future part of that is looking at the leadership in the current status quo of leadership in our communities right now how are the leaders in our communities throughout the globe not just in the west although many of us we've lived our lives in the west and the US and the UK and Europe but even throughout the globe this could extend to Iraq to Iran to Pakistan to India throughout the Muslim world for that matter and the question is when we look at our different and the leadership that is there many of them are working very hard and leaders there's differences I can't necessarily say that there's one blanket statement to say that all leadership is doing good or all leadership is doing bad but there's a spectrum some better some not so good but when we look at leadership we must strive to the best possible frontier we must strive to the level of the or as close to it as possible what I'm trying to say is many of the leaders with due respect to them I mean many of them are doing this on a volunteer basis the leadership in the communities many of them are doing it on the side this is not their primary goal they're doing a full time job on a part time basis because they're giving back to the community this is one aspect of the equation to give the benefit of the doubt at the other aspect or the other part or the other side of the coin if you will there's other types of leadership that may not be the best and leave a lot to be desired in terms of effective leadership that means that is the leadership satisfied with what is going on in the community and not looking for improvements meaning to say that this is how it's always been done this is how it's always been carried out for the past 10 years 20 years XYZ amount of time and to say that we don't need to necessarily improve that may be something that is short sighted and not far sighted I don't mean to necessarily change the system of I'm not saying that but I'm saying perhaps the method we can look and discuss is this the most effective or not in terms of how this institution is run or not which way could we change it sure so for example now many times in our communities to give a full a full comprehensive view of the scenario many people who are in the general community they may say oh this leadership is not doing anything this leadership is not really giving results this is what we talked about in the previous episode when we talked about ownership or sense of ownership even when I work in a company or any firm for that matter if I'm an employee but I still don't have a sense of ownership that I own my work and I have a responsibility and my interest is aligned with the interest of the company or the firm I won't succeed our company our firm won't succeed the same is true with the massage with respect to them in the if I don't feel that my success is tied with the success of the Imam Barga how will we succeed at the highest level is it accurate to say that the state of a community is the reflection of its leadership yes and no yes and no yes in the sense that the leadership drives the vision and this is what we have been highlighting in previous episodes that the leader's job is to chart the vision this is where we need to get to this is where we are today how do we bridge the gap how do we reduce the distance and gap between it that's really the focus of a leader there's a very interesting saying that is that the Japanese have that I've always read in respect to why is leadership so important they say something to the effect of course the the saying is in Japanese itself but it's been translated and what they say is fish rots from the top down or fish rots from the head first these both translations have been there and the idea or the concept is that the leadership is the head or the top of the fish for example and if that is corrupted and if that begins to corrupt itself and erode then the rest of the fish will follow suit what this means is if the leadership is not strong in our communities how can we have expectations for the general community it's a relationship that's symbiotic it's a relationship that both parties must benefit from each other but who's monitoring the leadership now if let's say in a community do you have a certain leader the community is not reaching the potential it should who's monitoring that person or XYZ people who are leading that community and if it can be or if it's not monitored who should monitor it and the problem we usually might face with leadership is that people who might sit on the chair of leadership will stuck on it until they pass away and that's a big issue in our communities as well and another thing I want to slowly discuss about and bring it in is with regards to the youth and why don't we see the youth getting the responsibility of leadership in the communities but let's first discuss a question about monitoring in your thoughts what do you think would be a good system so the community could monitor the leadership if there was any flaws or anything that could be improved some pressure could be placed upon the leader so very excellent points that you've said with respect to how to create an increase if I may use the word accountability in the community we hear this a lot we've heard this in the past and there should be accountability and this was the the school of thought in the view of the people of the house it's very important the first and foremost accountability is we are accountable to Allah in his court first and foremost unfortunately for many people this is not sufficient many people they may be on you I think that's the key word you said Saydina that first we should feel accountability to Allah so I think the key here is that we as a community need to observe the leader and correct me from wrong and have a sincere intention that everything he does for the community he does it so we can see closeness to Allah and metaphorically speaking أحل البيت and the teachings as possible and hold on especially in these difficult times we live in now if I observe that the leader might have different intentions I need to take action correct or no it's all scenarios are not the same it's a case by case but the most common fault in a community if the leadership is failing is because there are different intentions for example you said a lot of leaders yeah pretty much take the responsibility voluntarily but certain communities are thriving and are strong enough financially that the leader is working full time as the leader is getting a salary now I need to point left and right but I'm pretty sure this is happening throughout the world with very strong centers if that was the case should there be a board or a council in order to monitor these so we can avoid certain bias so people wouldn't start looking after their own backs if I could say that so you've said a few things that are very important at this point in time there may not be that many communities where the president or the leadership are full time and take a salary but this may happen in the future and we shouldn't necessarily look at that as negative in fact we may need this this is part of what we're talking about in this series of shows that the whole notion is we should get and establish ourselves as a community at such a level financially, economically politically and other ways and in the media at such a level where we are able to finance and establish and help other people do these jobs full time because they are full time jobs there's no doubt about it our Sunday school mother's jobs initiatives they are full time the management of the community is a full time sorry to interrupt I just wanted to share my thought that if they would be able to work full time that means that they would actually benefit even more that means you'd improve your madrasas you'd improve your lectures your magales, your activities your projects and it's very important so you've highlighted as well now the benefit of the doubt must be given at the same time we have to be very frank and honest there are certain individuals who stifle the growth of communities unfortunately because of sometimes for example their ego they must be the president they must be in that leadership role and therefore not only do they want to keep it for life sometimes and for long terms but sometimes now in some communities they're passing it down generationally they'll say okay I'm the president now my son takes over the mantle this is what's going on some things will never change some things unfortunately will never change now if that is for the betterment of the community maybe it makes sense but if it's not for the betterment of the community then we need to question and ask well why is this going on in this particular manner why is this proceeding in this particular manner I'm not talking about those magales that happen at someone's house in particular that's their house majlis that's a private majlis for example but if there's a Joseenia that I know in the best interest of the community it is to have some other leader then why not do this you know to the extent that even the level of leadership do we have in the modern era then our Maraja for example our great scholars many of them you'll notice their children will not become the grand marja after them although many of them may be qualified many of them may have that level but it's just to show that this is not this is not something that we're just passing down one after the other this successorship in the form of just one family that's running and so anyways but coming back to this notion is to be balanced what I mean by that is when we suggest a leader ego must be tamed I must recognize that I'm first and foremost accountable to Allah subhanu wa ta'ala and that Joseenia that Imam Barga is the house it's for the Ahl al Bayt Ali Mussalam that is with the Majlis of Ahl al Bayt Ali Mussalam that masjid is the house of Allah subhanu wa ta'ala that's not mine that doesn't belong even if I put up a substantial amount of money as soon as I say that this is a masjid it no longer belongs to me it doesn't belong to me anymore it belongs to Allah subhanu wa ta'ala the scholars in fact have talked about this and they've talked about the dual ownership nature of a masjid a masjid has dual ownership one Allah subhanu wa ta'ala first and foremost the house of God second is the ownership of the people this is why we don't give preferential treatment in the masjid to someone who for example is wealthy they sit at the front but you see it all the time say it now and it's sad we see these bad characteristics which we imply in our everyday lives are evidently visible in our communities and what I wanted to stress out is about I think I believe the key to the solution is the youth because the elders at the end of the day they've lived a certain lifestyle they've got a certain ideology it'll be difficult to change but how can we take that power to an extent and hand it over to the youth in such a way where the youth can take these innovative ideas with combination with technology and the change of time and era and use it to improve the community and with that being said how do you encourage in the first place the youth to take that responsibility or participate because slowly slowly if the youth would be more interested and alhamdulillah we've seen it in certain community centres we have seen that the youth are indeed responsibilities whether it is for arranging lectures or during peak seasons religious season like محرم for example شعر رمضان you see that initiative has been taken by the youth but how can we amplify it and speed up the process in order to stop seeing this thing everywhere or you've got the elders of the community leading the way stuck to their own ways sometimes unfortunately a bit too stubborn to take on board advices make changes and it's getting a bit frustrating because as you mentioned we need to actually start acting more we've been seeing the same thing with our community centres over and over year after year and not a lot is changing so in your opinion how can we encourage the youth to embrace this responsibility to get that feel of ownership in the community instead of just spending the energy elsewhere our youth are a very important aspect in this equation that we're going to get to in a moment with respect to to conclude this notion of the current status of leadership right now and how we can maybe chart it and lead it to a better path in terms of leaders we need to understand that there are different demographics I also don't want to scare sometimes this is a very important point that we know sometimes in our community we're so critical sometimes of leadership that sometimes we scare someone who's sincere to actually take up this position that they're saying that first sometimes they may think I'm not qualified maybe sometimes the person who's actually equipped to be a leader and they think they're not qualified maybe that's the person who should be the leader whereas sometimes there's a person who may not be qualified but he thinks I'm the person that's been chosen by a lot to be the leader but at the same time we shouldn't be so critical to a person that they become scared of becoming a leader when we talk about criticism and accountability we talk about constructive criticism and to do that when we talk about we must do it within the confines within the parameters of Islam meaning I should not go out of my way to try to lambast that person immediately right away and say that you are the worst leader and you've done this terrible thing for the community and you think in front of everyone of course you need to deal with wisdom with tactics initially this is how أهل البيت علي مسلام did how many letters did أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام write to معاوية you can find over 13 in نهج البلاغة for example letters أمير المؤمنين you don't know that معاوية is not gonna listen to you he's not gonna take your advice why أمير المؤمنين knows أمير المؤمنين knows better than anyone that he won't listen he won't implement he's doing this notion he is fulfilling the obligation that is his divine obligation to Allah سبحانه وتعالى so this is what is the responsibility of the general public to write letters to advise now I have been in this boat myself unfortunately there are communities where I myself have written letters in the past when I was going to a community growing up there are communities many youth have told me this as well we write letters we talk to them we send emails they don't respond this is wrong of course there must be accountability many times leaders think some of the status quo leaders in our community think that you know there's no voice these are just children the youth are just children these people to come to your question about the youth involvement this is the future they must begin grooming the next generation in any other environment any other professional institution we groom leaders somebody who comes out of a university after for example 4 years doing their bachelors UCL or imperial or Cambridge or Harvard whatever university they study for 4 years right away after that do they become the CEO of a company? no they don't it takes some time at the same time these companies they have younger leaders as well this isn't a problem but there must be some period where you groom them and you train them and you help them to get towards that end and I think we're lacking especially in this subject that who's grooming that's where we have a big problem that I don't see anyone preparing the next generation to take charge of the community absolutely this is a struggle but what I would propose as a solution we've talked about some of the issues we've talked about some of the problems we've talked about some of the challenges but as a solution if I can propose maybe having every quarter for example maybe every 3 months once a month every 3 months maybe every 6 months have a leadership training workshop this doesn't have to be necessarily open to everyone maybe it's just open to the leaders in the community now somebody for example maybe there's different fields in their professional lives in their work lives many of the leaders in our communities they have different fields for example somebody may be a doctor somebody may be a lawyer somebody may be an engineer somebody may be an economist somebody may be a psychologist somebody may be a stay at home parent all of these people have their strengths and leverage intellectual thoughts intellectual ideas intellectual capital that we can all benefit from but at the same time to take any one individual and say they are an expert in every aspect that may not necessarily be the case this is very important to note because I may be somebody who somebody may be a doctor a physician even in physicians there are different categories there are people who are doing private practice there are people who work in hospitals there are people who do a little bit of both somebody who may be an employee and their focus is solely on providing a service and helping their patients maybe very different than a physician who has a private practice or for example even a higher level a physician who has a group of physicians and they are leading that group that person although they have a doctor or physician that person is still a businessman or a businesswoman because you are running a group at the end of the day there are many programs in the US that have popped up that are training, they are teaching that are having MD and MBA simultaneously dual degrees because they realize you have to run now what I am saying here is this that person may have a good heart sincerity they may have financial capital as well but we need to help encourage them that person who has studied finance economics and that is the field that they work in they would be very strong suit for example to help deal with the finances of the community to help deal with being the treasurer for example but to make that person another field maybe the public relations director maybe they don't know how to do that well we need to provide training for that we need to help people understand how these things happen and if we don't do that then we risk this notion of not performing at the best and optimal level many of our youth they understand certain things about the modern world that others may not of the past generations of our elders with due respect to our elders we need them, we need to learn from them but at the same time social media Facebook, Instagram, Twitter all these different social media some of the youth know better than anyone how to deal with these, how to manage these things how to leverage technology for the better why not learn and hear their ideas even in schools and universities some of the most cutting edge things are being put in front of their eyes and they see this and they live this day in and day out why don't we ask them what's the most innovative thing and new thing that you're doing at university and college and Insha'Allah with this we will see benefits in this age and Insha'Allah in the future Insha'Allah Insha'Allah we're going to shortly go into a short break and then we're going to come back just to pose a question for anyone who would like to call we would like to continue with regards diversity and should we encourage if there is any diversity within our communities should we encourage diversity of views and if so how if any of you would like to join us please get ready if you have any questions prepare them and Insha'Allah once we're back from our short break we'll go through them stay with us and I'll see you right back وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته to my dear brothers and sisters beloved viewers welcome back to our show teach talk and thrive now for any of you who just joined our discussion we're discussing leadership and how basically what's the right way to lead and Insha'Allah the question we're going to go through now is with regards to diversity of views and is it possible could we encourage diversity of views within our community and if so how but any of you would like to join us please do so by calling us on 0203 51501 009 and numbers are available in the lower bottom of your screens and Insha'Allah we should have as well what's up number available for any of you who would like to text so say now diversity of views we all know we've got a bit of issues left and right but at the end of the day I think the most important thing is to unite under the banner ورحمة الله وبركاته and respect one another most important thing with that in our communities what's your opinion it's a very important question and one we must think carefully about leadership I've seen in my experiences leaders I should first of all say leadership is a very difficult job it's not easy and the reward is of the highest caliber for leaders as well rest assured if one leads with sincerity and one leads with the best interest of the community and ultimately and to please Allah SWT definitely Insha'Allah they will be given the reward at the highest level but to this question of this notion of leadership and its effectiveness and cultivating diversity of views in many many communities that I've been to throughout the globe and many of what my friends tell me who are also lecturers as well there's been a notice and many of our viewers would probably feel the same sometimes there's a hidden agenda by some leaderships in some communities meaning they want to particularly have this particular viewpoint that everyone must follow their view and this is something that has not only existed in our community it's existed for centuries in fact millennia that the pulpits have been bought and sold by leaders so for example people like the likes of Banu Umayyah Banu Umayyah were experts at this what they did was they would purchase they would purchase or lecturers or people who are speakers the person who gives the khutbah and they would pay them and sometimes they would pay them very well they would pay people who wrote they would pay them the people who like someone who is a historian who writes history when they pay them and they pay them handsomely whose side are they going to reflect whose views are they going to reflect that's obvious the one who is writing the checks unfortunately the same is true in some of our communities where individuals have a particular view and because of that view they invite that speaker who aligns with their view for example and they may undermine the other communities as well the membership of their communities now, their community may not necessarily hold the same view their community for example this may not be as big a problem in london as it is in the states in the states sometimes there are hussainias that you go to just because there's not another one around there's not much proximity why is there not much I don't think we should have all these different hussainias we should combine our efforts where need be but there are circumstances where there's a long driving distance and it's difficult to make it I understand that and I respect that but a leader must think in my congregation in my in people who are in my community there may be someone and there may be a group of people sometimes even a majority of people who don't see things I see them I must still respect their view I must still respect their vantage point and what that means is I must not always invite speakers who always say the exact same thing and force it down people's views and they may not have the same view I must respect their views there are so many things to talk about in Islam why do we always focus on the negatives or always focus on the points of differences it's a very valid question and it buffers me as well to be honest with you the differences oh I follow this Marja therefore we will only talk about this in this place I believe in a political view and this is all we're going to talk about every single Majlis that person a young child a young youth who is attending the Masjid the Hussainia is thinking to themselves I came here to learn about أمير المؤمنين I came here to learn about أمام الحسين علي السلام I came here to learn about الله سبحانه وتعالى why are they dragging me into this politics I don't want to know about this politics I don't care about these politics you leave that with you my concern is learning my religion why are you dragging politics into this level now they may say that you know for example part and parcel of the deans part and parcel of the religion fair fair enough but at the same point know that there are other scholars who have had a difference of opinion on that matter and this is what I mentioned in previous episodes and I'm reminding again if I am a مقلد of a certain Marja and I have the utmost respect as we all should of the مراجئ if I am a مقلد I understand that the fatawas and the rulings of that Marja are a حجة on me as a مقلد and may not necessarily imply on someone else the problem happens when we start imposing our views on other people there is a diversity of views within Islam Alhamdulillah we should benefit from it Alhamdulillah I went to the different Horselias over in London and I benefited from them Alhamdulillah when we start to having divisive so this is what I am saying about encouraging different views but where can we start to try and fix this problem and discuss it with our علماء our scholars focus on the community what do you think where is the way to your hand who is responsible for fixing this problem if to be honest with you it would be amazing if we could have politically free Horselias where you could go to a Marja and listen about Abdullah Al-Hussain without expecting to listen about a agenda or a political view whether it is XYZ as you said we could not care less right now we came for Abdullah Al-Hussain now obviously to an extent a political stance every year I should have one or every person but that political stance should not conflict our own interest in our own beliefs causing us to divide and weaken our communities what do you think is crucial that we get the علماء on our side first or just get the community and the علماء will follow the reality of the matter is the علماء have a very important responsibility here and we must learn from them at the same time the علماء an علم we must respect علماء at the same time we must not necessarily expect the sun from the علم from a particular علم what I mean by that is they have a certain role and a certain responsibility but to throw the ball in their court and say this is just the علم or just his view is unfair at some level at the same point in time there are some we must not be duped by just clothing or garb بحمدلله a mu'min a mu'min must not be someone who is naive this is in politics and other fields as well we must be very mindful does this person have a particular agenda is this person able to speak freely or are they not speaking freely this is something that must come up in the discussion when we ask about Islam the youth they want to know about the views of they want to know about the Quran and how I can implement that in my life today they don't necessarily and having spoken to millions of them thousands of them throughout my career I'm telling you that they don't necessarily always care about all the politics that's going on in other parts of the world their Islam is for example local and the way they live at the same time our scholars are very important and they play a very important role I don't think are many of our scholars for example the likes of the ones in Najaf who are tremendous or even in Karbala we must respect our Maraji at the highest level at the same time that doesn't mean that we cannot ask for some level of accountability from their representatives who are local for example that doesn't mean disrespect that doesn't mean for example I go and shout at them that means the same thing that I mentioned earlier that write a letter, write an email and request some time to sit with them in private that you know how can I help you make this better how can we work together together to make this better a scholar in many of communities I've also been to there's a few leadership models one the two most common ones that I've seen is there is a board of directors that leads the views that leads the community which is at some level good but what is the relationship of the board of directors and the alem many times I've noticed they've noticed this very clearly the board of directors leads everything and the alem is just an employee underneath he just works as an employee and so his views don't have much weight then there's another model that you'll find in many حسينية that the absolute and total power and everything is given to the alem or the scholar the challenge that we face here is when you do this that person who is the scholar although sometimes they may have good intent maybe some I would argue maybe they don't even I won't go there but what I'm saying is even that alem is not necessarily an expert in management finance and all those different aspects you need a team there as well therefore to lead a community properly you need to be in consultation with the scholar I'm not necessarily saying 50-50 what I'm saying is that they must work together the board and the directors should not feel that this is just somebody who is an employee and their job is to do خطبة and مجالس and that's it and at the same time we should not feel that this is someone who is for example the leader of the community the alem and everything else we put the ball they must do everything and they have absolute power because unfortunately some people not all very few they have gotten this power they have abused it to the point that they just have a one-point agenda and for a youth who is going to the Masjid and the Husseinia they don't want to hear about their politics they want to hear about أهل البيت عليهم السلام and insha'Allah if we implement this we will get to a better future if we start implementing this and getting to that point where we actually benefit from all those components we start benefiting from who we need and are extremely important but also the board of director and the leaders who are also very important but we should also not neglect the youth who are the foundation in the future we must all work together and come together to a point where we cultivate leaders for the future we make the best leaders that we have today and those scholars those people we must take benefits and consult from them to lead and have a diversity of thought and a thriving successful community now and in the future insha'Allah insha'Allah I hope we actually start implementing these ideas and it will definitely be a breath of fresh air for all of us because at the end of the day as you said our intention should be sincere just to improve ourselves get closer to Allah strengthen our communities both spiritually, financially socially gain a strong foundation so the next generations eventually could actually have something to work with as a tool for the preparation of the mama at the end of the day that should be the aim for every Shi'a or every human being who believes in justice and truth in the world that we need to go out there and help everyone else as well who's lost but in order to help others we must help ourselves first yeah unfortunately I would like to conclude and I would like to hope that everyone can use this information to help one another and in their communities I would like to thank you so much Sayidina for being with us as being at the last video for شهر رمضان I would like to thank you all the viewers brothers and sisters who have been with us I hope you've benefitted from these programs as much as we have with that being said thank you so much and wish you a blessed iftar with family and friends والحمد لله رب العالمين وصل الله على محمد وآله الطيبين اللهم صل على محمد والحمد