 Welcome everybody to Segal Talks here at the Martin E. Segal Theatre Center at the Graduate Center CUNY, New York City. It is week three for our talks that take a bit of the temperature of what is happening and what's really happening. And we heard many, many voices, artists from around the world, but also from New York to talk about the meaning of all of it. What we should be doing or should not be doing, what consequences it will have, but especially really the voices of artists. We hear so much from politicians, neurologists and economic advisors. Our voices as so often are missing, but I feel especially now this is utmost important and to get an honest evaluation and artists in all societies in all ages in all centuries actually have spoken the truth and we're closer to what is going on often. We are late even when we are in the presence, we are educated and our mind formed some time ago, but artists do have that special gift that they're not only in the present, but actually they anticipate in the future and they have something to say we should all listen to very, very carefully. This week is a little bit of New York week. Before we have a big dance theater with Paul and then it be a major theater for Oklahoma with Harvard and Kelly. And we're going to have Melanie Joseph from the foundry was Aaron Lansman, Aaron Spire. And, and then we hear from India and Pakistan from Shayed Nadim and from Abhishek Mumbar friends also from us but today we hear from a great organization institution I have admired very much over time we also have collaborated many times it is the Blackfest from New York City with us is the Mumbar and somehow the organizer of it is Keith Atkins who at the moment is working in Los Angeles for his work for the stage but also for the screen. And he brought with him three great minds the writers he feels strongly connected to also happened to have time this morning on short notice but also who he feels and have something to say there is a Dennis and the second, who is here from us and you hopefully saw all the bios on the great howl round webpage again thanks for howl round. Adam was in college for hosting us. And there's France lose been so who is joining us from New York right and and Lisa strongly. I'm in Florida. Lisa is in Florida Dennis also is in New York City. Let's start right away. Keith. So, what's going on how do you feel. Well, can everybody hear me. Well, a little bit louder maybe speak a bit louder. Yeah, a little bit louder. Yeah. Is that better. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. I, you know, this is a very obviously troubling heartbreaking, humbling moment in global history with cobit 19. And we all are now quite aware that the black community in particular are being hit the hardest as far as fatalities. And I think that for me, or initially I was sort of feeling the global sort of impact of what was happening and then recently because of the information about our particular demographic. My heart and my mind and my spirit is much more invested in what is happening to my community, and then also why it's happening to our community. And I think for me and you know Dennis friends loose and Lisa will have their own sort of contribution to this conversation. But for me, the health care inequities within our community is a very very real thing and it has been real for a very very long time. It's not brand new information within the black community. We're always aware that we have to be extra careful about walking into a hospital and what that what may happen while we're in that hospital. For me, there's another more revolutionary reaction that is needed, which is empowering our community around health and fitness, because clearly this administration from the evidence and the data that we've been provided in the last couple of weeks. They have not really taken a strong enough stance to protect this country's marginalized and more susceptible communities. And the big question is why that may be another conversation to have it another time. But with the knowledge of knowing that there is a sort of potentially culture of disregard and expendability when it comes to black and marginalized people. Then what does that mean for the black and marginalized people should they self empower through politics or they self empower through health. Like what does that mean. And so that's kind of where I'm sitting right now as I navigate this wave of trauma that is happening on a daily basis. Any one of you. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think I agree with everything Keith just said, in terms of taking on a new wave that's taking on a new wave of grief, when we are starting to see the statistics in the disparities and how this is impacting the black community. And I think, for me, there was a moment that really made it real. And, you know, I think everybody's seen it now. The bus driver who went viral, who talked about a woman coughing and then he died several days later. And he's kind of like a symbol of how marginalized communities are treated. And it's not even just about race, but socioeconomic communities. You know, people who are on the front lines, not just doctors and nurses but people who are working in our supermarkets and bus drivers who are getting people around. And there's a kind of neglect that the government treats them with, and that many of us treat them with that is sitting with me, you know, and I, and I know for me, I've been thinking a lot about how I can be of service, and not just as an artist just as a human being, you know, what is the best way for me to be of service, you know, it may not be at this moment, through my writing, there may be other things that I can offer. So, it's very deep. And I'm reminded of how much I need to just take my time because it's so much to process. It's so much to process. And so before I can even jump into action, I really need to process everything that I'm experiencing myself. Absolutely. You know, and the fact that when this first came on to the scene, COVID-19, there was this belief that black people could not get it, or that we were not dying from it, or could contract it. And then it seems like every single case that comes out, we are the face of it. In some cities, all major cities across this country, it's black people who are dying. And that's very scary. And I have a lot of people in my family who are service workers, who are central workers who are nurses, who are bus drivers, I have two siblings that have various immune systems. My brother has asthma, my sister has MS, and so their health has really been on my mind heavily. And the members of my family who were constantly putting themselves at risk, taking care of the larger community. You know, sometimes I don't know how to feel about that. I don't know what to do, how to feel, what to think, what I'm able to do. The only thing I can think of right now is keeping myself as safe as possible and trying to be of service in any way that I can, if that's through speaking to someone, if that's through using using comedy. I don't know using having a group cry, cooking with someone online. Anything that's simple, anything that's human, anything that's just about being and sustaining, I think, is something that I'm really trying to focus on, keeping it very simple, and sending out continual prayers and spirits to those that are keeping us afloat during this time. Thank you. Yeah, I echo what everyone else said. I find myself really looking at the privileges that I have, and how blessed that I am, and also in terms of being able to take a second to actually process my grief. In terms of my language, to be able to process the grief that I have an emotional intelligence, that I have a family that is supportive, that I have friends that are supportive, that I have a roof over my head. Right now I'm in New York, I'm in Long Island, specifically. I'm in Hempstead, Long Island, in my childhood home. I'm with my wife and my two parents who are elders. They're in their 70s, so they're high at risk. So every time I do have to go out or I do go shopping, I'm worried about bringing something back home. Full transparency. My mother recently had a stroke exactly two weeks ago. And so that hit home in terms of the families who have people in hospitals that they cannot connect to, that they have no idea what's going on with them. There is a feeling of helplessness that we're all experiencing on some level. And it really hit home for me two weeks ago. I am lucky enough to be somewhat isolated from the world, as opposed to people who are in the city. But at the same time, like I said, I'm in Hempstead, which is also somewhat epicenter in Nassar. Because of, again, the workers because of everyone trans the bus depots and the people who are essential workers who can't not work. And so, Hempstead tends to be a forgotten city in Long Island, because of the high minority population. So, just really figuring out how to prioritize my grief. What I can deal with in terms of where I can come to the acceptance of the grief process and what I have to take my time with, because I may be stuck in the angry phase for one section of the grief and I may be stuck in the depression phase and another section of my grief and so really taking the time to really process where I'm at, especially since we're all in close quarters. You don't want to project and put it on to your loved ones, what you're going through. So that's really where I'm at. So what phase are you in at the moment. You know, this morning. This morning, I found myself in the depression phase. I checked in with the news. I saw the numbers. I recognize that in terms of reflecting on how America has treated those that identify as black, those that they identify as black, knowing that this is a continuation. And so it's going to be ramped up and really thinking about in terms of the black community. It is now the narrative, how the narrative may switch to, it is our fault, right. The narrative is going to switch to the reason that is spreading is because of black people and the fear that comes behind what that might look like in terms of people's ability to move throughout the country or throughout their own cities and towns. Yeah, so that's where I'm at right now. Right. It's interesting for me like, I'm not. I'm not sure if I'm experiencing grief or not and we've had this actually Dennis and I, and Lisa and personally had this conversation around, because we actually meet every week. We're a group of people, but we've had a conversation around grief. And I feel like what I'm going through is more of a bracing. Because I know the metaphor has been used. The tsunami. The COVID is as a tsunami and sort of like the water being pulled in and so you know exposing like the ocean's bottom and sort of seeing that but also understanding that the wave is coming. The wave hits as casualties involved and sort of looking around at the casualties, but also being aware that there's another wave coming so it almost makes it impossible for me to completely grieve. I think because I'm so busy bracing. I'm still bracing I'm still like you know what Dennis was saying. It's just sort of like bracing and concerned and having anxiety around family members and community members who I know are high risk. And, and, you know, and to make it very clear, like, I think the sort of conversation right now or the narrative that's being spun is that poor black people or Latinx people are the ones who are being impacted the most but it's black people of all classes is it's Latinx people of all classes it's not about necessarily people who have lived through deserts. It's about underlying conditions that may be triggered by or have origins historical environmental social economics like all those things are involved so that makes for me like. I learned about all of us. All of us. I saw online last night there was a young man young African American man in the hospital. And he was talking about he went in because he thought he had Kobe 19 and what he discovered was that he actually was a diabetic. And he said like isn't this a crazy time to discover my I have an actual underlying condition that I didn't even know existed. I think there is a go I go back to like the health awareness within our community and not depending on the institution to sort of help us and sort of guide us because they dropped the ball on us all the time. And I feel like there really needs to be more empowerment within our own community about teaching each other the resources that we have and know to just keep us sustained because this is going to happen again Obama talked about this five years ago. He said in five years there's likely going to be an airborne virus that's going to be dead. He said that five years ago. So, you know, I don't know I'm just I'm just in this place of bracing. And it's exhausting is stressful. I have to jump rope, you know, in order to just sort of like pull the anxiety out of my body because I could worry all day long about my community like it would really probably make you sick. I'm bracing. And it's nerve wrecking because we need testing. We need mass testing across this country. A lot of us are sitting here and we don't know if we're positive or not. And they're not giving you a test if you're not demonstrating any any of the major symptoms but we're discovering day to day that the symptoms can vary. I was reading recently and I think I shared this with the group on Friday that now a symptom is your skin burning having some kind of burning sensation in your skin. Did any of you hear anything like that. Diarrhea. Red having having having red eye. People thinking they're having allergic reactions or that it's their suffering from allergies. And that actually could be a symptom that could be a sign that could lead to more dangerous things. So it would be nice for us to know what our status is. And so that we can know that we're not at risk to the people that we love. No, there's people who want to go visit their families and they're afraid to, because you could be a carrier and you don't want to put someone who is at risk because of their age at risk. Right. Oh, it's very frustrating to not know what our status is and that that if you want to get a test that you cannot because you're not near death or you're not exhibiting any kind of respiratory issues. I mean, because one person you can sneeze one day and be dead in five days. Yeah. Yeah, I think Germany. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. Well, they were on the news this morning they were talking about the debate about whether some states will end the lockdown at the end of this month or in May or in June. One of the issues is, even if people start to go back to work or schools reopen that most of us haven't been tested. And so how can we resume everything when there are people who still may be asymptomatic who still may be carriers. So, it is scary to think about how long this will go on and, you know, you've talked about the tsunami for me it feels like there's just this undercurrent of anxiety that just persists, and I, you know, I go for walks and I meditate and I do all that I can to take care of myself spiritually and psychologically but there's this undercurrent of anxiety that is just like simmering and simmering and simmering and, you know, I joke sometimes I'll clear my throat I'll have a little tickle in my throat and I suddenly think oh my god. But it's serious it's a real anxiety that's just, you know, waiting to burst and I imagine that most people are feeling the same anxiety. And it is really shameful that we can't be tested. Yeah, we all have to live with this. Right. Yeah piggybacking off the anxiety couple days ago I had to go to the market and I really was terrified to go. I hadn't been out of my house in two weeks. And I have all the gear I have the mask I have the gloves. But I was really afraid I had to talk myself into going outside, because I'm even afraid at this point to even take walks, because I'm in a hotspot I'm in Jersey City actually and so we have the highest numbers next to New York. And when I look outside my window I see people walking about with masks or sometimes without I still see people congregating in groups, and I just wonder how safe it is. So, the anxiety is very real. And I don't I don't think that's ever really going to go away. I think that's going to be with us. I don't want to say indefinitely but, you know, definitely until the end of this year. Yeah. Yeah, I think one of the cases that we had artists from Taiwan also here, why they had few cases was rapidly fast testing the thing that country learned from the SARS virus Germany is very low cases and the only reason they say is massive testing about 500,000 people a week early on. And here you have the feeling baseball teams have access to the testing. Yes, you hear of the top managers, you know, who have access to the testings, their cases in the New York Times was described that doctors auto 2550 kids just for themselves for their friends families. You know, they have access to the testings in their mind and even healthcare workers who have offended black ones at the CBS pharmacy wrote letters they said, ethical, you know, that we can but you get 25 just for yourself, but you can order them because you're a doctor. And how can it be that the richest country in the world can produce 50 cents masks. How come that is not able to produce after two months testing that what's what is wrong and I like I think you're right the underlying condition so you have feeling for for your community of course, you know it's a long story this is nothing new but now it comes an extra, extra burden on it do you feel that people are listening to you are people aware of that or do you feel it's not represented in the media and the talks as it should be. In terms of how it's affecting African Americans. Yeah, I feel like I hear people talking about it they make it a talking point. But I don't see anything being done about it. I don't see any real action or any real steps taking place to address it. Because in order to address it you have to talk about the systemic and the institution and the institutional racism of this country which, which it seems to me that that is something that the country really doesn't want to do it hasn't really done in any real way or having any real conversations about combating that so the virus, the pandemic right now is just shining a brighter light on the problem that has always been here. And those problems haven't been dealt with in any real way so I hate to sound cynical I don't expect them to do anything about it now other than to make a point. In some ways when I hear them talk about it I almost feel like they're even trying to blame us for this happening to ourselves. Because they talk about the underlying conditions they mentioned obesity and diabetes and then in the back of my mind I'm thinking that's there's they're pointing out the reasons but they're also trying to blame us for it. So if black people just took better care of themselves. If they did this and did that and maybe that's why they're more susceptible but they're we're more susceptible and have all of these conditions, because of our experience in this country, because of not being taken seriously especially within medical industry, because for not being believed when we have when we have issues. So it's all connected. So are they doing anything. No, I don't think they're doing enough. Yeah, and the same in a way people empower and politics who who cut the money for the hospitals cut the money for health care workers don't pay the right salaries. They're not the ones they stay at home you're allowed to go out and put perhaps blame to it but they call it the China virus the Wuhan viral others instead of saying it's a global problem and and it's hard. So how do you deal with it then. And as artists. Do you feel this is impacting your thinking your work or is it just a confirmation I remember once Judas Molina came to the seagull during the financial crisis and she said we always knew the system isn't working I don't know what people are talking about the lemon and it collapsed and he said you know we have been making place for 20 years about this or 30 or 40. So how do you feel you feel this is something different. Yeah, I mean I definitely feel like. And I was talking to you earlier about this about as far as like the trade by Martin moment in our country. And the Baltimore moment like moments of that are that are illuminated around the culture of expendability when it comes to black people like police brutality and police surveillance that sort of thing that I felt in those moments required an immediate reaction, because it was impacting each other's lives, each, each other lives within our community almost every single day, we knew somebody it was us being pleased as being pulled over, our cousin or brother or sister being shot and killed. And I think that demanded artistically like a real immediate sort of reaction in this case, me personally. So, for instance, speaking to this like, I just really feel a need to be still to really kind of understand, you know, first of all, sort of like to brace myself. You know, within this pandemic within this virus, this attack but also sort of understand how I'm feeling because I'm not quite sure how I can feel artistically when there's so many things being thrown at me as far as my own morality mortality. And so like there are people who are reaching out as far as commissioning and micro commissions and monologue slams and things like that and I just don't know personally, if I can offer anything right now. I don't have any resolutions or solutions because I feel like I'm in the middle of it. And I'm also not very interested as an artist to just sort of be doing things to keep myself occupied, if it's not somehow connected to what's happening right now. You know, so it's like, it's like, you know, I just feel like I'm walking in sort of a fence between not feeling the need to do something but also not wanting to be a part of things that are not a part of what's happening. You know, that's just kind of where I am right now, artistically. And I'll add, I mean I do think that it is definitely a time to look inwards. And so that could mean completely being still not engaging in any new artistic work but it also could mean continuing. I'm still writing a lot is journaling, but I also have pieces that I started and that I've tried to kind of come back to during this time. What I often find is whatever I'm working on, whatever's happening around me in my life informs what I'm working on. It's not just for me to kind of force it, but just as long as I'm present and emotionally available to whatever's happening in my life, it will inform the work. And I also think it's a great time to connect with other people. One of the things that I am doing artistically I'm, fortunately, I have a position with the fountain theater and la on the committee engagement coordinator, and we've been looking for ways to connect with our audiences. So, I started something on Saturday where we kind of do it's kind of like a salon. And this past Saturday was the first one and it was really an experiment, you know, I had a couple of musicians and I allowed space for people to just check in. And I was really surprised and humbled by how much people wanted to connect with others. I have about 32 people I think who attended. And I mean, I hope they don't mind me saying this but you know the fountain audience base is more on the elderly side. And I could really feel their appreciation to just have a space to connect with other human beings, and to just be heard just to say this is how it's been for me this is how I'm feeling. I made individual calls, I made individual calls during the week leading up to it. And I remember there were a couple of people that I called who were really transparent and said, Look, I'm elderly, I don't know how to use zoom, I would love to do it, but I just don't know, and I kind of had to walk them through it. And it really made me realize how isolated a lot of people are, and particularly people who aren't as comfortable with technological apps, you know, can really feel left behind at this time so for me that's, that's a way where I feel like, as an artist, I do, it's a skill set that I have as an artist to be able to connect with people and engage with people and all kinds of people and so, even if I'm not writing or producing new material that's something that I can offer I can create spaces for people to engage as theater artists we create spaces for people to come into a theater and have a shared experience together. I can still do that without necessarily being in a theater or bringing up play I can still create a space for people to have a shared experience together. Yeah, I'll touch on that really quickly. I was thinking about it before we got on the call and interestingly enough, all the work. My through line with all the work that I do is dealing with untreated trauma in the African American community specifically. And so, coming out of this, when we do get on the other side of this, it's going to be so much more untreated trauma. And, and so I don't see anything at least thematically in terms of my work changing. It's something that I feel like needs to be unpacked. Again, you know, we right now have the privilege of having an internet and having a computer and having the education and having the access and I think most. Most people don't have that. And most people don't have the opportunity to take the time to even think about how am I feeling about this, because they're so stuck on survival and how am I going to make it to the next day. And so I feel like it's my responsibility as someone who is privileged enough to take a time to be like how do I feel about this to try to express that in my art so that somebody sees themselves and and get some sort of feeling some sort of feeling respite. You know, so that's where my that's where my mind's at right now as an artist as a writer specifically. It's interesting to when you say that I think about like so much of the African American theatrical and literary canon or even visual canon is coming out of black people's navigation of the American as a trauma like it's like trauma, triumph, trauma, triumph. You know, so it's interesting like you say like yeah, because your work does sort of not sort of it does deal directly with trauma and I wonder to like, because in New York, I've been talking about the sirens. And even though I have sirens here in LA as well but there, people are saying like every 10 minutes is a siren. And because the streets are decently ice like you know, deserted that that's the only sort of sound they're hearing. And at least four or five people have said, I'm afraid that I'm going to have serious PTSD after this is all over, just simply because of the sirens, feeling like they're in the middle of a war zone. People are being pulled out of their homes and literally visit, like, visually seeing people pulled out of their homes and put to ambulances. That has that's going to have like that by itself is going to trigger some deep, you know, and how do we sort of move out of that like how do we how do we. Well, I guess I'm going to answer my own question, like, because black people have always been able to sustain themselves in some capacity through trauma, you know, institutional trauma, but perhaps this is a little different. I don't know. I think it is so important, more than ever right now for artists, especially to listen to what they're going through, not force themselves to do anything that they don't want to do or need to do and listen to that voice. And having all of this time to not do anything is such a wonderful gift. I mean, I would have preferred that it happened under different circumstances but if we can just get still. I think many of you have echoed that and listen to that voice and listen to the trauma or the turmoil that is within us and deal with that on a day to day basis and be honest about it and let things sort of come up for us. Naturally, I think that is probably one of the greatest gifts that we can give to ourselves right now is to stay steeped in our authenticity. Stay steeped in listening to that voice that sometimes we don't always get to listen to, because we're consistently inundated with so many other things that we have to worry about is just staying in the moment. Yeah. I mean, don't feel what others do feel like in the moment they produce something that's for the screen. You feel the community is under attack and let's just reflect let's see what we're doing and all the mama does Monday evenings kind of even shows and to keep the spirit up so for you it is very different we had a Friday with our good friend RST Tanag, who is in Burkina Faso, who would say, you know, 300,000 people die in the Malaria, no one cares. There's now people, you know, and in Europe or in America, white people, of course, he said, you know, some die and, you know, numbers and the world stands still. He says we can't afford vaccinations against measles. There's not enough to cover the bases and nobody cares. And then, you know, we all know that America bought a mask away from France or Germany, you know, on the tarmac on the airports bought a baby pay four or five times and it didn't go to the people who ordered it who had already paid for it. And what about my country, you know, they can't be, they cannot be protected. So what is wrong with the world becomes so deeply clear. And do you feel it will politicize your work or your your family friends what does what does your family say and you do you feel this is a turning point. Well, I mean if I could just jump in really quick and just say this about Burkina Faso. I think that that's an interesting commentary because the black in my experience in my understanding from my generation back to my great grandparents generation who I actually knew that their experience in this country has always been an experience of invisibility, that this something can be happening for a white person or more privileged white person on one side of town. Maybe that you know there's a health crisis and so all the resources are sort of like provided to that particular person or that community, but on the other side of town when there's a black person or black group of people experiencing the same things and the collection. There's a there's a expendability quotient that happens. And so I think that black people in this country can also say that this is happening to these people this people but you know we're not being seen we're not this is always happening to us and we have seen earlier about like there's an institution in a history of disregard for us and also there's an institution within our own communities to fight and create movement so we can have equity that's been an ongoing journey for us since the 17th century in this country. So again like what's happening to us right now is deeply troubling because it is a pandemic it's happening all over the world that makes it extraordinarily troubling. And what makes it devastating that the illumination of our own experience here is clearly disregard, because you think about like all the experts, like Dr Lee and when and that the group that and other sort of, you know, sort of high end scientists who were trained for weeks that our administration have been briefed about the incoming COVID-19 and the impact it was going to have. And so understanding how those briefings operate they give actually specific information. Each person sits there and provides specific detailed one through 10 information, a list of information, and I'm certain without a doubt that in some of those briefings, if not all of them, they were aware our administration was aware of the impact it's going to have on the black community and large communities, the black and Latinx communities in large part of the city. I cannot imagine they did not mention that. And so because of that, in the disregard and what's happening to our community right now as far as this virus is concerned is just deeply deeply troubling. And I do feel like it's a little different and I do feel like there needs something else needs to happen. Because this is going to happen again viruses are going to get stronger just like climate change is getting stronger and you know all these things are happening it's not, I don't know, I just This is important to just sort of say that Burkina Faso world is also the black American experience. Yeah, exactly similar in that in that way in this regard. He doesn't have masks, you don't have masks, you know, he can be tested, you know, and it's hard for all of us. What is your family members, what is on their mind, maybe you could share a little bit and maybe Dennis Allen, you know, is it so for two weeks doing lockdown your mother had. Well she had what ends up having she had a stroke Saturday morning, her fall was about seven in the morning. And she had showed all the signs of strokes like us learned speech. She didn't have control of her left side. She was stumbling. And so I call the ambulance. They came. They diagnosed their confirm she probably just had a stroke decided to take him to the hospital. And so I couldn't go with her, because no one, no visitors are allowed if you to the hospitals. And so the ambulance pulls off with my mother and I have no way of contacting anyone. She goes to the ER, and you know, and the emergency room on a regular day is crazy. Yeah. And now with COVID-19 it's even it's even worse. And so luckily enough she got all the tests that she needed to get and also she recovered quickly. There were no beds they admitted her but there were no beds in the hospital. And so they just kept her in the ER space. And so once she got her facilities together. She gave me a call on a cell phone and she was like I'm requesting that they discharge me because the reason that I had this stroke is is because of my blood pressure and I'm stressed just being in this ER worried about who has COVID-19, the TVs are blaring, people are fighting with each other, you know, it's just it's it's not doing me any good staying in this ER for I don't know how long. So I'm coming home. And, you know, we had to even though we rather she stayed in the hospital, there were no beds. And so she came home. Her mother takes care of herself health wise and so the stroke did not the mini stroke rather did not affect her as as badly as some people and so she got her facilities back mentally and physically quite quickly. We had to do all the back and forth with the doctors in the last two weeks but she's been home resting comfortably taking time for herself. One of the things that is, I guess, a blessing in this craziness is that she has nowhere to be. She has no one that she has no one can come over. And so she has to focus on herself in the health. And luckily we have her home. Again, if she was in the hospital, I would just have to rely on phone connections, and possibly, you know, nurses who maybe take the time or not to give me a call and update me. I imagine for people who are disconnected right now and families who are disconnected right now and have absolutely no idea what's happening. And so then you have the anxiety of just what's going on in society and then the anxiety of someone being in the hospital, and not knowing and not being able to control and not being able to see them until they just discharge them, if, if you're blessed enough to have them discharged. And so I think my family, you asked about the family my family just actually my my father's side of the family just did a zoom call just like this one just to check in with everyone. And that my cousin my older cousin initiated, and it was good for everyone to see everyone in my my cousin specifically said, does everybody have their wills in order. Making your wills, your family is making your wills. Yeah, so she gave everybody the task that if you have not written your will and not letting people know where your will and your information is to do that in the next two weeks and then we're going to check in in two weeks to make sure that everybody does that right. And that's a reality, I think, many of us run from our mortality. And, you know, because of its uncomfortable situation that I don't want to think about you dying and I don't have time for that or, you know, I got nothing. I don't have time for you anyway so what am I thinking about my will for right and so we don't have, you know, we don't have health insurance we don't have life insurance, we don't have our wills in order and so when someone does passes. Now it's even more stress of trying to get those things together and figure out those those steps. And so right now what my family is doing is really looking at what strategies we could put in place, just in case the worst case scenario happens. Wow. That is real talk, that is real talk. I imagine those conversations are happening all over the place. My sister said something very similar that she is getting her will together and getting a conversation with a lawyer to get a will and testament together. In the event that something does happen to her. And she's a health care worker also you said she actually she works with security so she's security in the hospital. Yes, and so she she has to work on many different floors and she was sharing with us yesterday that sometimes she has to accompany people to the morgue as well. Dead bodies to the morgue so she's consistently always on the front line of something so. She's concerned. No she's concerned in the hospital is doing their best to make sure that they are protected. But it's unpredictable. Yeah, yeah, I definitely feel like I mean just going back to the, to the conversation around art and art making on the on you know when we get to the other side of this as Dennis was saying like I really. I just can't imagine myself wanting to be involved in anything except something that's urgent. And particularly like something that is both illuminating of the problem of this country when it comes to people who are marginalized and people of color but also work that is speaks to how to empower ourselves. Like I just you know I'm right now I'm working on and I won't name any names that I'm working on a television series for a cable streaming company. And the content of the show. Is it something that I would like right now like prior to the coven 19. I was fine with just working in that space and you know, getting paid week to week and contributing character and story development, because that's something that I really love to do. And it's a decent show and they have something really interesting to say. Now that this has happened and thinking about myself in the future as a content creator, I don't think I can even go back to that show not to say that I will not go back to the show but a part of me is like can I go back to something that isn't going to speak to the larger the larger conversation around what's happening to human beings, you know, particular, you know black people marginalized people like if it doesn't have anything to do with that in a very sincere and direct way. Am I as an artist going to be able to participate. I even think back to some of my other work, you know, so look at the Canada my work if you want to call it Canada just a collection of my own work and think about okay what things do I feel are not serious enough or, you know doesn't speak to, you know something that's urgent do I want to share this I should I write something brand new eventually that is so targeted and so specific like it just has me thinking and rethinking about artistic agenda. So artistic relationships who what kind of relationships I want to have with institutions after this. Will allow myself to be commissioned to write so comedy about a bird, you know, or, you know, will I be much more forceful around like what I have like what I will be a part of what I will not be. So yes, it's just a lot of I'm having a lot of sort of artistic responsibility questions for myself. And I think it's a lot of play about Seneca Village and Central Park, you know, African American community left for decades there and then they had to leave because the park was created. Tire community destroyed the perhaps also as a model or for someone to look after and to see if that's possible there. It could be possible somewhere that destruction and very serious work you did there and. Yeah, so but also for, for, for, you know, for all of you, you know, what do you look at now I mean let's say you say I can't do my own work now but what do you read now or what are there plays is there work where you think this writer, she had it right he had it right from Canada. What do you look at as models now we see this field. Let's represent what we do is there's something. I mean, I'll just jump in. I mean, immediately I can't not think about Octavia Butler. The power of the solar. I mean, yeah, Octavia Butler is is the first thing that comes to mind and I think I'm going to revisit her work. And it's been circulating at least in my circles on on Facebook, where people are sharing in and and talking about her work again in terms of how prophetic. And how did she know, and her actually speaking and the interviews of her talking about that. And so, yeah, that's the first that's the first name that comes to mind. Which book would you suggest of hers to start with some listeners are hearing Octavia but I'm absolutely the first time. The power of the solar would probably be the best to start with. Absolutely. Yeah, the great thing about parable of sore, not the great thing but the intriguing thing about it, it's set in I think the year 2025. But she wrote it in 1992. There's like, like a one central government. There the privilege lived in sort of towers of security, marginalized community black and Latinx communities are living in abandoned gated communities, where there's like people who are in these hyper drugs called pyro and there's like people who exist as zombies because they're so it's really like absolute and it's all about survival is about survival of like the largest sort of apocalypse, like sort of real time like grounded apocalypse like it's really. And also I think it's written as a journal, and I think a lot of artists are journaling now and I think a lot of the art that's going to come out of this time will be of that first person sort of narrative that journal style. And so I think that's definitely my first pick. I'm not reading any specific authors right now are thinking about any particular writer I mean I have been thinking about what people's response will be after this is all over. I think there's going to be a wide spectrum of reactions I think that people are going to want to pick up where they left off wherever they were artistically, there will be people who will want to dive deeper and write things that are more meaningful to them. There may be people who want to not write at all or just sort of reconfigure or sort of redefine their approach to their art and then some people will just practice radical self expression and and not deal with any kind of art or any kind of expression that's not authentic and that's not going to change the world for the better. I think for myself. I don't, I'm not quite sure how to answer that question and I don't know where I will be mentally I don't know what's going to come up but I feel like whatever does come up. I wanted to be something that is true, something that is coming from an honest place and something that is fearless. So I think there's going to be a lot of fearlessness, not worrying myself too much about what people are going to think about what it is that I'm creating. And I also wonder about the institutions to I wonder what position they're going to be in financially what kind of work they're going to want to produce. In terms of what's going to make money, and what's not going to make money are they going to be willing to take as many chances and many risks with different types of work, or where they want to go back to being as commercial as possible we know because there is this idea that after people have experienced a crisis to get back to normal to get back to things that are fun to get back to things that are light. And so I wonder what that sort of schism is going to be what that battle is going to be after all this is said and done, and what people are going to want to focus on what people are going to want to pay money to see and be a part of. So I'm really I'm really curious to see how that all sort of pans out and that can change from day to day. Yeah, I mean I agree with what everyone has said. I mean one of the biggest challenges for me is just remaining present. And so it's hard for me to anticipate like what people are going to want to see or hear what should I write. You know, it's for me it's very day to day, and I completely agree with just wanting to stay authentic. Some days it is comforting for me to work on material that I've already started and like Dennis for me a lot of my work. So far from my cultural perspective as a Haitian American which for me is very much about representing a marginalized community, not just in this country but globally, and representing a country that has many of the problems that Haiti faces today is because of systemic racism. So a lot of my work is already kind of exploring those issues and it's just going to be about what stories, I'm going to want to tell after this and it's hard for me to imagine really what the impact of this is going to be in the end. I think that remains to be seen, but I, again I have, I feel drawn to be of service in a way that might not necessarily have to do with writing, you know, I really want to just remain open and to see where I'm needed and I'm curious about what other skills or strengths I have that may have been dormant because I've been so focused on writing and on this industry and on producing and on, you know, satisfying what I think institutions want from me. This has allowed me to really kind of just be open to whatever else, whatever skills and strengths I have. Thank you for your reading. I actually have find it very difficult to read when I'm anxious. I already have anxiety I actually don't be transparent just in the spirit of letting go of stigmas but I do take medication for anxiety it's something that I've dealt with for many, many years. And so when there's a lot of anxiety. It's very difficult for me to retain, you know, like, so it depends on the day, but what I have been doing is I've been listening to a lot of Muji. So if people don't know Muji, it's about M-O-O-J-I and he is this phenomenal spiritual leader. I like to listen to guided meditations, but I often find like, when the voice sounds like it's from a particular place. It's hard for me. It takes me out of it. And Muji is just this, you know, Jamaican man and he's so wise and so deep and he's actually been, he's done some talks specifically about the coronavirus. He's did a wonderful talk about stillness and not feeling that we have to feel pressured to do anything but to look inwards. So I've been listening to him a lot. That's one of the things that's been really getting me through. And again, just kind of being open to where I can be of service. Do you get help from anyone? Is there any theater institution? I mean, Blackfest has been around for a while. That's a great thing. But also you have all done work. Is there any organization that reaches out at the foundation? Is there theater, say, we're going to commission you to keep you up? Do you feel there are messages coming from the outside world towards you? Or is there radio silence? Is everything canceled? The Dramatist Guild, I would say, the Dramatist Guild Foundation for Playwrights. Even before this has been a place for playwrights. They offer many resources and I know when New York and LA went into lockdown, they were one of the first to offer emergency grants and a lot of playwrights have been the recipient of that. So they're an organization for me that has been really instrumental in just my survival as an artist. They're a place that I can go to for almost anything. I think I met Keith through the Dramatist Guild. So the Dramatist Guild is definitely one. And the organization that I work for, the Fountain Theater, I feel, we are definitely trying to be genuine in our desire to just be there for people in whatever way that they need. And I don't know. Who else, guys? I don't know. I mean, I feel like there's a lot of different institutions that are reaching out and sort of providing just a shoulder to lean on or all grants. Fracture Atlas, which is the physical sponsor for the new Black Fests, they've sent out links as far as places people can go for emergency grants or micro grants or covering productions that money would have been lost and things like that. That's definitely happening, which I think is important, you know, for many artists, because most artists live paycheck to paycheck or gig to gig, you know, it's a gig culture, just like musicians, like artists, right? So I think those things are definitely happening. But I think as far as like the larger sort of narrative demand, like, you know, sort of the commissioning, I think initially people just started asking for content and sort of pulling people into content spaces. And for me, without actually taking a moment to be still to really sort of like really ask for a specific thing. So I think people were just sort of like expressing themselves, which I think is very important. But I think that I would like to see more if anything happens, even from my own institution, like creating spaces for people to talk specifically about this situation and not just come on in and just sort of like, you know, unpack whatever's happening. I just want a very specific space where I can feel like I can be honest about the world that we're all living in right now. Yes, thank you. Thank you all. We are I feel we are just started with the conversation but we are coming already to an end and we all do miss theater and theater now really proves in a way we absolutely not essential. On the other hand, if a society is working with life is enjoyable. Theater is there and it means it isn't seismograph it's the canary bird. Once the dress up again it will be the scene that we are safe once theater has been done and good theater and also shield this is a good society is a good community that takes care of its artists and values. It always has looked at life and test but also at life and it's on the side of life and has always engaged as you all have been. And I think, but at the moment perhaps to all right it's a moment to listen to be still to understand what we are going through before rushing you know to to writing the first publishing the first novel of the play they tell you playwright who was with us. Lucia Calamari says throw everybody out of the window who's already calling the agents and say I'm going to be the first for the Netflix series. So this is not what this is about the misunderstanding this, but I also agree with all what you say that you know this highlights what's already there that marginal communities are invisible that are not on the agenda as they should be what is underlying the underlying anxiety we all have their costs by something underlying that is really really wrong and needs to be fixed. And I hear you what you say and I hope that the upcoming elections that future politicians will understand people come first as they do at the moment we have to acknowledge production is stopping people come first we cannot produce, which is against every production model of neoliberal capitalism. And about we also really have to ask for it there, it should be a right of the humanity to have access to health access to education and access to the arts basic human rights. And how can we do that to have a better, better place and that in a way some artists from Taiwan said all of a sudden we are really connected the entire world. We're in the boat now and the virus doesn't really care so much what it is, but it of course affects those who haven't planned well or who haven't been taken care of by people in power and politics who said our people come first and we do everything and it looks like the White House has not done that they have listened and they did not provide for what is needed and we still don't have what we have. So again, thank you all and for for for coming taking your time and energy and maybe we check in later on who knows how long this is how the mood will change. So join us tomorrow we will have the great big dance theater and any be in Paul and then together with the nature theater for Oklahoma to hear from their side, popular Kelly but what they are thinking about these creative minds who have a hard time even also finding their work here in New York. I think we're still on but I don't think. Oh, did we lose Frank. Yeah. I'll check in real quick. But I believe Melanie and some and here he comes. Oh, yeah, we have also for a second. Yeah, we have a melon of Aaron Lensman and orange coming up and then shade that in Pakistan and, and be shocked from India and so thank you all for taking the time I'm sorry about the technical complication but it was very important to hear from you very moving and then on this talk you all did really really thank you and stay safe and stay tuned around the college for helping us out. Yeah, thanks for having us. Thank you. Thank you Frank. Bye bye.