 Good afternoon. We are thrilled to have you back here for part two of the non-profit show with Jack Alotto. Jack is a CFRE certified fundraising executive and a trainer at Fundraising Academy with National University. I mentioned today as part two, yesterday was part one. I feel like I'm Thumbelina right now, but about handling donor objections. And so really excited about this. We will recap in a moment what yesterday's part one covered and we're gonna dive deep into handling donor objections part two, because one of the things you shared with us, Jack, is about 90% of our solicitations are met with an objection. So that to me was just a really fascinating fact. But Julia, Patrick and I are here for the occasion and we are thrilled to have these conversations with you. Again, Julia is the CEO at the American Nonprofit Academy and I'm Charit Ransom, your non-profit nerd CEO of the Raven Group. And we are so very honored and have deep gratitude for our amazing presenting sponsors. So I wanna give a shout out to our friends over at Bloomerang American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, non-profit thought leader, Fundraising Academy at National University where our guest, Jack Alotto joins us from. Also staffing boutique, non-profit nerd and non-profit tech talk. These companies are here for you and they want to help you do more good in, around, throughout your community. So please do check them out because they have amazing teams, amazing support, amazing services and platforms to help you. So please do give them the courtesy of helping you because that's what they want to do. And if you missed any of our episodes including yesterday's part one, you can find it on Roku, YouTube, Vimeo, as well as Amazon Fire TV. You can also listen to us. So you can listen to the non-profit show wherever you stream your podcasts. Go ahead and download us or subscribe to us rather, I should say, because then every day you will get the notification of a new upload or a new download, I forget which it is for the podcast and it will just remind you of that. And we are cooking up something else on this and it's a three letter word. Well, I guess that's the abbreviation, but an app. A-P-P is the three letter, but an application on your phone. So more about that soon, but I know, Jack, you wanted to let the cat out of the bag. Let that cat out of the bag. Me out, it is out. You know, yesterday we talked about objections as really signs of interest and not a firm know. And I wanna repeat that again today. They are signs of interest. And really the thing that really stands out to me is that handling objections, how to do that is with preparation and most importantly, listening to the prospect, listening to the prospect. It's really important. And the second thing is, and it's back to what you said about objections are part of this fundraising journey that donors go on. And you have to view those objections as progress reports when they say, I don't understand this program that you're doing or tell me more about this. They're asking you and they're giving you a progress report on that journey of getting to yes. So it's really important to view them in these objections as positive occurrence and not as knows and really, really important that you get on board with what they're trying to ask you for. Yeah, absolutely. So yesterday's conversation with Jack and Julie, if you'll pull that up, I wanna make sure that everyone knows who our guest is today and why he is skilled enough to have this conversation. But yesterday, Jack Alotto, CFRE trainer at fundraising Academy with National University talked to us about three main objections. And the first one was objection types and those types he outlined for organization or cause, the fundraiser, a version to a decision as well as the gift. And then he also talked about to anticipate, right? Like how do we anticipate and also forestall these objections as well as answer the objection immediately. So these tips, these techniques as well as real life case scenarios are part of yesterday's show. So again, find us on all of those streaming platforms including, you know, podcast so that you can listen to yesterday's part one cause we are now diving into part two and we're gonna start off in this handling objections part two with three Fs. So these Fs, Julia, I'm gonna let you share what they are. Feel, felt and found and I can't wait to see how these integrate into the whole ecosystem of understanding and handling objections. Right, and you know, this way of handling objections and as fundraisers, and I'm sure the two of you have experienced this as well where you're sitting with a prospective donor and you feel some hostility from them. Maybe they're unhappy about something you do and you, what you wanna do is you wanna clearly understand you wanna help them clearly understand the value that your nonprofit is in the community and you might say something like this, I can understand how you feel Julia and I've had other donors who have felt that way. And in the same way, you could also add something like they felt that way until they found out this. So, you know, it's really recognizing that telling them you're not a lone prospective donor in your concern. There are others out there who have felt similar to you and you're telling them also that you understand and you validate their feelings. Right. And that others are out there and then you answer the objection by saying something like they felt and the same way that you do, they express the same concern and then they found out this about the cause or about the organization. I love how you thread that into, you know, the response and also back to yesterday that is answering the objection immediately. It's right there in conversation and I wanna pull up something because I'm meeting with a donor, a very large donor in our community later today and they have shared with me very transparently, you know, some of their concerns and I just, I feel like it's appropriate because many of us have experienced a transition in leadership and so I feel like one of the big objections probably many of us are facing is that transition of the CEO because we've really seen many CEOs hang on, you know, through their retirement years longer than they wanted and now we're starting to see this changeover and so, you know, having this feel felt and found, I'm gonna use that today, absolutely today. You know, don't we all wanna have our feelings validated? If you wanna say to that, yeah, I mean, Jared, if you said to that donor, I don't understand your feelings, that's not validating their feeling. In fact, that's negating their feeling. Instead, we say at the fundraising academy in Kausseling validate their feelings, express to them that other people have felt this way until they found out this and I'm sure it will work for you later today as well. Yeah, I love, I can't wait to hear that works, you know, given that you have this opportunity to kind of put something into action. The next thing you wanna talk to us about and I'm really interested, again, as part of understanding objections and the relationship and the dialogue that we have, talk to us about compensation or the counterbalance method. What does that mean? You know, very similar and very in line with feel felt and found is for you to accept and admit the truth of any objection. Okay. If someone is telling you that they don't think your organization is actualizing its mission to the extent and if it's true, you have to say absolutely, you're right. We do have some shortcomings, we do have advantages and validate the objection. When you do that, you impress them with your integrity and that you are a fair-minded person. So validate any truthful objection. Once you do that, then you move in with your organization's strengths. So for example, let's say a donor comes to you and says, I still see so many homeless people on the streets. Why is this when you have a shelter for homeless people? So you admit your shortcoming and say, yes, we cannot house all of the homeless people in the community. However, since we've started our homeless program, we've been able to help 50 families with shelter. And with the help of your gift, we will be able to house even more homeless. Can you see that counterbalance method? Validate their complaint, their concern, admit your shortcoming that you cannot serve all of the homeless people in your community and then weave into that counterbalance that with more additional support, we will be able to house more people. I really appreciate that because, and even that example, because that is such a timely for so many of us across the nation, the increase of shelter, it's the decrease of shelter that has increased our homelessness population having this counterbalance method. Because the other thing I hear often, Jack is like, well, if we announced that we just received a large financial support, perhaps people do not see the priority in investing or donating in us now. That might actually be bad if we share this large sum of money. But that to me, I see as a counterbalance method as well. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, in my career, our organization has gotten big transformational gifts, like a big foundation grant to do something in a social service agency or in the hospital, maybe prenatal care for women around, who are malnourished or whatever it is. And they say, well, that hospital doesn't need any more additional support from me. There's always the population who we cannot serve, who fall through cracks. And I think what you're illustrating with that example, Jared, is another way to use that counterbalance method. Yes, we've got this great grant and we're going to be able to do this, this and this, but there's still a need. And are we ever going to end child poverty? Probably not. Even a multimillion dollar grant, there are still going to be children who go to school hungry. Or people who are homeless who will not find shelter. There's still going to be mental health problems, no matter how much money we throw into this. So it's a constant battle to help our communities. And I think that's okay to talk about that. I also think that when I'm asking for money, and I have come up upon that, we're like, well, you're doing so well, you don't need my money. I always like to have like, well, this is what we, this is our next level. And this is how you can help us. So that it's not like, oh yeah, we're all good to go. Because I do think that people, they love to kind of support and upstart, kind of get things going. And then when you look like you're really doing well, then that's like, I think a lot of times donors say, well, we want to spread the love, let's go somewhere else. So I appreciate you helping us understand how we can navigate that conversation. In my career, I remember I met with a very wealthy donor and I was asking her for a large transformational gift. And she turned to me and she said, well, isn't Mrs. So-and-So your fairy godmother? That was an objection. She was objecting. She's saying, why are you asking me for a gift when you have this big transformational donor out there? And I remember it was early in my career when I was kind of shocked like, wow, how do I respond to this objection? And I was like, silent. I mean, so it was just such a shock. So I know there are fundraisers out there and the three of us have experiences where we're gonna get some objection which is gonna be way off in outer space that we did not anticipate. Remember we talked about anticipating yesterday? You have no idea where that is coming from. And so I know that some people who work in some charities, if there's some scandal about some charity that's far away, some donor may ask you, well, what about that scandal that's taking place in New York? And you're in Los Angeles and you're wondering, I have no idea what happened there. So there are objections out there. We just have no answer for. So that leads me to the next question, if you will, asking why or a specific question. I mean, as we are in this conversation and this, if you will, dance with a donor, talk to us about the asking why or the specific question. You know what this is for me? It's the spirit of curiosity. This is where you embrace curiosity. You can ask why and gain a better understanding when an objection is brought to your attention. And I think it's such a, I should ask why in so many instances where I didn't, I didn't embrace that spirit of curiosity. Can you ask why it's gonna narrow a big generalized objection to specific points that are easier for you to handle? Let me give you an example. How about if a donor says to you, I don't like the position you've taken on a government subsidy in this area. You could, in response, you could say, oh, I see. What specifically don't you like about our position? You're getting a big generalized objection. I don't like the position you've taken on government subsidies. So now you have a spirit of curiosity. You ask why you want to drill down to what specifically they don't like about government subsidies. And I think that's such an important thing is to bring that donor down to a more of a level that you could answer that objection with. If it's a big objection, it's gonna be hard for you to answer. Yeah, it's too wide. It's too broad. Really narrowing it down specifics. And then what I learned from your part one yesterday, another plug to go back and watch that is to say, and how would you like for this to be handled? How do you think we should be addressing this? And then you're hearing exactly where their frame of mind and perspective is coming from on this particular objection. Yeah. And when, go ahead, I'm sorry. Well, I just think that it's also for me to Jared's point, it doesn't make you seem so combative that you're listening and maybe you will learn something new or you will be able to, I think sometimes people just wanna express their opinion. That doesn't mean it's a deal killer, but you have that conversation and then you can move on or you can respond. But I think it's an interesting thing to let them express what this concern is in that conversational spirit. I like to say, get over your fear of asking why. When you get over that fear of asking why they have this position and be respectful. I mean, don't like, oh my Lord, you've got your opinion. Why? No, you wanna be respectful. I understand your opinion. And can you give me more reasons why you can gain clarity and appropriately address a donor's concern? That's the goal, isn't it? It is the goal. And I also think a lot of this comes into your tone of voice, the way in which you are responding. As you said, clearly am I gonna say, oh my gosh, why? Why would that be? We're not gonna react in that manner, but knowing with all of the original conversations you've had up until this point, you've learned how this person prefers to communicate and how you ask why of one donor could be very different than how you ask why of another one. Yep. You know, one of the questions I really love in connection with the why is when you get an objection, it could be any objection. You could ask something like, if I could not resolve this issue, would that keep you from making a gift? Think of that question. That is such a wonderful question to ask. If I could not resolve this issue around government subsidies as it relates to our cause, would that keep you from making a gift? If they say yes, then you're done. It's pretty much you're done. If they say no, then you can build that relationship. That's right. I love it. Okay, now along this line, I wanna jump in and ask about that when you deny the objection and what is it that you're talking about here? You know, so I am a Googler, okay? I use Google. And we all know that when you Google something, there's really some bad information out there. I mean, we all use search, but sometimes some of your donors are gonna have bad information. Maybe they got it from the internet. Maybe they got it from some other media of some variety. And so here is where as a fundraiser, you must answer resistance and respectfully assert that the prospect has received misinformation. I'm sure the three of us have heard in our career things that you're like, wow, that just is not true. Now, it could be that a friend of theirs heard a rumor or some other thing. So you have to really be respectful. This is where you deny the objection directly with the donor. If you're dealing with a sweeping generalization, like I know your organization is not managing its funds well. That's a big generalization. Then this is where you ask a question. What specifically have you heard or have you learned about the way we are handling our finances? Something that you might consider using, I'm sorry, I don't think I fully understand what you're saying. So that might be something. Sometimes the donor will have misunderstood what you've said, not what they've read. You may have said something in the presentation that was wrong, but you didn't realize you did it. This is where you say, I'm sorry, I gave you that impression, let me restate it differently. So those are some techniques that you can use to deny the objection. I think the most important thing here is what attitude you're bringing to denying that objection. Your goal is to correct misinformation that makes your donor feel respected. If in your correcting or denying the objection, they don't feel respected, then you're gonna have a hard time getting to closing a gift. A pill battle, it will absolutely be. Well, I believe our final key talking point, and I cannot believe our time is running so quickly. I love the mosaic of the boomerangs we have here, but tell us about the boomerang method that you talk about. Here's where you agree with the objection. Remember to admit to any shortcomings, et cetera. Here's where you agree to the objection, you admit to the objection while showing them that their objection not prevent a gift. For example, let's use this as an example. If you're a brand new organization with lots of programs, somebody may come to you, a prospective donor may come to you and say, Julia, I'm concerned your goals may be overambitious. You're new and you probably are not gonna be able to achieve these goals. Here's the boomerang method in action. Here's your response. Yes, we are new, but we have a new, fresh, eager staff. In fact, we have the mentality of, since we're so new of an entrepreneurial organization, we're eager, ready, and excited to get going. That's the boomerang method. I could do that used so often. I love it. It's so many ways. It's acknowledging, it's validating, it's addressing immediately. Yeah, it's like, you're not dealing, there are so many more homeless people on the streets. How do you use the boomerang method? You say things, yeah, you're right. We aren't addressing all the homeless issues that are happening out there, but here is what we are doing. Our staff is on the streets trying to help people who have mental health issues. Our staff is eager to end or diminish homelessness in our community. Our staff is doing this. We are writing grants. We are out, we're here talking to you about a potential gift. All of those things shift the focus back to something that's really important to your cause. I love that approach, because I also think it humanizes the struggle that we have trying to achieve our mission, vision, and values. And that if it was all done and good and tied up and above, we wouldn't need donor investors. I think there's something refreshing actually about saying to a donor, you are right and we see it too. And that's why we need your help. That's why we need your support. Yeah, I think we have a nonprofit fundraisers or administrators or whomever. We really have to get those defenses down. Yeah. Really have to drop those defenses. And I think that's what handling objections, figuring out how to handle objections is one way to do that. Let's drop our defenses. Let's have open communications with our donors. Let's admit to some of our shortcomings. If we didn't have needs and shortcomings, then we probably wouldn't need gifts. That's right. That's right. And I love the reframe of an objection is a mere curiosity point, right? It's really the person saying, I need more information and this is what I'm curious on. And you're right. I mean, back in the beginning of today's conversation, I alluded to yesterday's fact that you dropped on us, 90% of all solicitations will be met with an objection. I'm objections. And I asked, is that of like a major gift level? And you said all levels. All levels. First of all, people who give you a $25 gift think they're giving you a major gift as well. Absolutely. I always think, treat everybody. We say in cause selling all the time, everyone's a major. They think they're a major gift donors. We have to recognize that and we have to treat them like major gift donors. But you know what? You just said something that's really important about curiosity. Curiosity, that method of answering objections, asking questions, that's the way we build relationships, guys, by open-ended questions. And that's what helps us as we go and build that relationship, which is at the center of the cause selling cycle. Yeah, you know, this has been great. And I absolutely agree with Jared. To me, the big lesson, and it almost like gives me permission, is to understand that they're going to be objections. And this is a healthy thing. It's a matter of how we feel about them, how we react to them, and how we embrace them for a more sustainable relationship with our donor investors. You know, we have a sustainable relationship with Jack Gallardo, CFRE. He is the trainer with Fundraising Academy. Actually, Jack, I'm really super excited. It's gonna be back on tomorrow for Ask and Answered. And so we will be peppering him with questions that come in from viewers all over the world, talking about a whole myriad of things. But this two-day drill down with you has been really great. And Jared, today you're in the actual hot seat in the cyclonic event of working with a major donor. So I can't wait to find out what has occurred with your experience today. I'm gonna break the cycle and do a 24-hour turnaround as opposed to a 48-hour turnaround that Jack mentioned yesterday. But this is definitely a transformational investor of the organization. And it's been a wonderful relationship. It takes a lot of work, but it is so very worth it. And I have to admit, it is so very fun. Good for you. Well, thank you on behalf of our community. I think what Jared is sharing is really important for the nonprofit show is that, Jared's a working professional in this sector. She's going out and doing these things and not just talking about it. And so that is what is so super cool. I'm very, very proud of you, Jared. And I can't wait to hear how it goes. It'll be a lot of fun. I'm gonna take Jack with me. And my partner- Yes, I would love to. I'm gonna channel today's conversation, yesterday's conversation, because they have been a transformational donor and we're also asking for them to reinvest at a much higher level. So. Good luck. Good luck. I'm sending you my good thoughts. Thank you. My respect to you. Thank you. Well, everybody, we're also sending our good thoughts to our presenting sponsors who are here with us day in and day out. And they include Bloomerang, American nonprofit academy, your part-time controller who this week is celebrating 30 years of supporting the nonprofit sector, nonprofit thought leader, fundraising academy at National University where our friend Jack Alotto comes from, staffing boutique, nonprofit nerd and nonprofit tech talk. These are the folks that support us day in and day out. Jack, this was a really great two days to spend with you. Thank you for your patience and the flow of all of your thoughts. Again, this content comes from fundraising academies, textbook cause selling, which there's going to be, if I'm not mistaken, a new version of this out shortly. And we'll let everybody know about that when that happens, but this has just been a masterclass for us. So we wanna say thank you. And we wanna remind everybody as we end this amazing two days, our mantra that we use every day to stay well, so you can do well. Sure, ransom, you're gonna do well this afternoon, my friend. Yes. Thank you. I appreciate it. You are. I'm gonna be holding good thoughts and I can't wait to see how this all shakes out. Thank you. Thanks all of you.