 Innovation into entrepreneurial ventures, otherwise technology commercialization and all those things happen but innovator does not get the institute get a very fair deal of the situation if you send it to the larger, sell it to the larger you know corporate house always bargaining you lose out as an academic institute yeah also it encourages you know target audience to become the first generation in entrepreneur's you know if you can't do it earlier in olden days in India failure was considered a stigma nowadays it is not in fact most of our boys now who are getting into entrepreneurship they come with the mindset we experiment for 2 to 3 and nothing happens then we will go and get absorbed in the job and during that process also you learn so much in a startup that you are not really unemployable even if you miss out you know as a student campus recruitment yeah again you know in India research side you know lots of theoretical research is happening so end usage is you know it's not getting converted into the end usage so having incubator right on the campus actually enhances you know applied research on the campus sometimes in the social and strategic mention they have a lot societal impact yeah so all this thing basically overall generate why silicon valley is so vibrant yeah they don't have incubator but it's so conducive for entrepreneurship I don't think in Boston area the environment has been replicated to that much right so generally it's good to have a larger ecosystem you know in a place when you talk about successful entrepreneurship and incubator actually helps to get the whole the ecosystem in a maybe the smaller way but you know in a very local environment where people start learning entrepreneur in your real dynamic and these are the reason why you ought to have incubator on an academic campus so you work on legal entity you work on your relationship with the host next what infrastructure managing infrastructure and how do you deal with the admission process our infrastructure I told you we provide company yesterday you all came we provide per company support which includes office space which can accommodate about 10-12 people with competing facility furniture internet facility telecommunication facility we have meeting rooms board rooms board rooms are equipped with audio video conferencing facilities we also provide because we are not a domain specific incubator we don't have a very large you know common infrastructure support like in chemical segment you have certain you know larger equipments which can be commonly used by many companies those kind of support we don't have it so we give specialized you know equipment support or need base to our company it is important to do it and company specific specialized infrastructure like you know because we are a broad spectrum incubator yesterday we've been to we have only one one laboratory in the whole incubator spread in three units you know which can accommodate one or two chemistry kind of companies coming out of chemical or chemistry areas but again this was not anticipated earlier and we didn't create until the company came to us and this infrastructure we built up only last year we converted one center into a laboratory space last year only and as long as we are concerned with we our infrastructure is very broad so it also includes our intangible support in fact we emphasize a lot on our intangible support rather than physical infrastructure which is our own business network which is our our mentoring you know closely hand-holding the company our mentoring support to the companies not only that we also have retained certain with certain professional expertise legal resource chartered accountant takes consultant IP consultant they come to the incubator we pay them they come there once in a month or so and they gave advisory support to our companies so those kind of supports value of service offering is also including in science science up support system it depends how do you negotiate typical it could be anything between you know 10,000 to 50,000 depending on the person you get monthly yeah but but depending on the person you get right but like see in our case IIT also has a good brand name so those guys also get benefited okay okay I am going and it comes under their social responsibilities area right so we have people with 57 years of experience not very high profile if we have certain deals so we have some good lawyers and people on our panel yeah if some good deals are happening then we touch base with them you know we direct companies to go to them advisory support this people are very good enough five seven years they don't charge us so much that's our deal because we also can't afford you know that kind yeah so it's like you know five to seven thousand per visit we give for four five hours which is very very very reasonable and they are also available on email so incubator infrastructure needs to be according to the domain and also company profile essentially it is basically you know infrastructure should be such that it provides a plug-and-play platform to the company so for us you know whenever company comes to us the incubation once it is a pro the company entrepreneur just need to walk in and get started everything is in place and then it will be appreciated because otherwise you keep on after company comes you you know keep on adding furniture and PC and for five days you take in tele telephone lines and all those things doesn't doesn't give a very good taste with the company also so essentially you you our infrastructure provides a you know plug-and-play platform in fact IIT like you know I don't know I should say or not but IIT we have typical problem that our administrative request you know response times are very very slow at the institute level so during crazy time like you know I remember professor loves to tell this incident that crazy time one one team came and I don't know whether he mentioned about this or not but one team came faculty member team and incubation they approved okay okay so come in a minute my home office laying gay can we take office in one or two months are you like you know professor like this is the key just get started in like you know it was a big they were numb for initial five ten minutes because they themselves are not equipped to get into the office you know but we also have to have team and get the people but and we have maintained that history that people come and just get started and we don't give cubicles it's a full-fledged office and that needs to be provided and one thing is that voting in infrastructure in place is one thing that is easier to be done but maintenance is really you know it's a regular it's very difficult you must be aware and maintenance is right from repair to upgrading yeah so it's a very difficult job time-consuming also you know costly but you know in our side what we have done is that this incubated company IP gets transferred against equity but if they have to use laboratory space and all those thing it is not a free you have to route it through regular industrial sale and they have to pay yeah only thing because you are on the campus and you have bargaining influence so cost structure comes out very cheap so again like you know come specific specialized report it is very important to do it even if you have you have domains domain specific focus but someone needs certain specialized support it's important to do but while you do it's important to create a balance the cost that is spent whether it is worth to spend on a single person or not single company or not and after that company moves out what do you do with that equipment whether there will be user in future or not and maybe yesterday you were talking right you can actually have some for specialized support you can have you know special deal with the companies you know deal could be you know let them share the cost a front cost for example or place a deposit with you something like that right deal that why they graduate they repurchase from the incubator so you can get some cash plus you also take advantage of depreciation during the time that they are in the incubator right so all rent may be charged something so I think you need to work out on a switch so any additional support create you know think somewhat business like with with business mindset okay okay important to recover the cost because we require constant upgrading also repair and I've already said so I will but this is very important all your facility agreements with your you know with your client should have a clause to protect you know from any damage to your infrastructure and make them pay for that otherwise your free infrastructure it will not have value and take my words it will never come to you in as it is ship and they will always come in a damage so legal you know actually we have made our companies pay for damage infrastructure next is operation do you have any this thing I don't think it requires major debate but any any particular question on infrastructure side you were talking about some costing you know I accounts or something the tax implications tax implications for the company is liable to tax companies are liable to tax huh now how how is they are the incubator no companies are incubated they are independent entity from the incubator yeah so incubate sorry incubator is what it's basically some support system which is managed by legally independent legal entity that is incubator companies who come to the incubator they use this infrastructure they are a separate entity so whatever incubator charges to the company it is a deductible expenses for them equity is not expense not expense it goes in balance sheet yeah that means you're holding it we are on we are on there in the yeah we are on there the same yeah being a no-profit organization we got a partial exemption hey did you I think full so I think these people probably got full exemption we didn't get a full exemption so we have to figure out so probably that's one yeah so you tell me but I think if you are going to be a no-profit organization very important tip simultaneously apply for tax exemption yeah in the year one itself that's one thing and second thing is that incubator if they are funded by DST then they are also exempt from service Texas so DST has to issue a later so both the things you pursue so that whatever revenue you generate at least you can plow back to your operation not by paying the taxes yeah let me let me quickly go through our operational framework before I get into actual admission process so eligibility criteria I already defined we are we take IP based product based company funded founded by at least one of the founding member has to be from IIT Bombay we don't take consulting we don't take you know service startups in our incubator admission in the incubator is subject to you know admission process certain review process so whoever walks in doesn't generally get the admission yeah our consideration model I said majority equity small revenue and subsidized rent our support is for three years but out of three years basically we give initially to begin with only for 18 months if venture doesn't do well we don't generally you know extend for next 18 months so it gets reviewed at the end of the 18 months based on the progress it gets extended for another 18 months so first 18 months again our rent is very small next 18 months it is somewhat on higher side yeah we have a very clear formal legal relationship with our company it's very important to do it facility agreement in our case consideration agreements equity revenue sharing yeah if we provide any cash then cash if we provide any specialized equipment then that agreement to offer that equipment we dsd we had given us a small fund which we have consumed but some of the companies we funded but very small 10 lakhs if it is equity then we take equity interest then it is very very soft 3% but we at least ensure that we get our money back and actually we haven't lot lost so far we haven't lost a single penny in any company I don't know down the line one year or so what would be the situation so yeah you haven't you haven't lost a single penny in a company but you've had a couple of companies which completely folded yeah and so so how did he say that so our support system also have some you know investment cash cash investment on case to case basis it is not by default to all our companies yeah we take a call whether we we give or not and for this cash funded company we haven't lost a single penny so cash money cash portion has come back yeah but I think yesterday you mentioned about he meant there are lots of debate why we are limiting to you know only our own community you are several living doctor prasad and others I'll tell so one company actually we had given them a loan and that is the company where the promoters had a fight between themselves right and we knew that company will face a major problem it was a VC funded company yeah so we actually exercised some moral pressure on the company that first repay our money back so you know when you are in a closer community you can have all this you know this kind of goodwill works if people come from outside right similarly admission process you know you really need to do need to have a good companies in the incubator and when you are doing limiting yourself to a closer community due diligence process is much easier then you spread out to larger how do you market you don't have resource to market to a larger community so focus on certain segment it's good to focus on certain segment and maybe then you can you know broader your funnel so this is the point one and these are coming as a basically you can't explain to these are the reasons that but it helps us when you limit your focus to you know certain known people so actually company fell but we got money back in that case then then we conduct periodical appraisal process and we also insist about certain information submission from our company so so that we get a sense where the company is going in which direction they are going they are doing well they are not doing even if there is a change in shareholder change in director key people you know we insist that you have to submit this in fact one company they underwent you know they went through some some change in core promoters profile which was not acceptable to us so actually that company moved out we told them to move out the company sign me yeah no so we basically sign only does it appraisal we do it and based on that need we touched this with the mentor on the issue side me that you require actually you know help on this side and try to figure out those things we generally sorry that's where our information submission you know helps yeah and something someone is so one company actually we told them so two cases I can tell you one company they went through change in management team core founder team which we were not comfortable and we forced them to go out one company actually was not submitting any information to us they were also not paying us and these are recent cases only in last you know seven eight months they were not paying our dues properly we won't get any information major attitude problem and we were not comfortable to deal with them so we told them to move out and that also we actually forced them to move out so actually that's what you need to have formal relationship you know legal agreement should all these aspects are part of your legal agreement yeah keep one of the key founding members should be from iit and then there could be more that's not but one of the person should be from iit we take IP based or product based so we we obvious so not necessary to have it a friend but whatever you develop should go in direction of developing a product or generating IP okay generally we don't ask for board position because that comes with certain legal liability but on case to case basis we you know define observer position and being an observer we can get access to their board meetings there we get to attend their board meeting we don't have voting rights but we get to know what is what is happening in the board yeah and then there are certain exit criteria so this is our operational framework so but why you need to have admission process in fact we never had an admission process in our crescent incubator you know crescent incubator boys or faculty member whoever is that they will just come out with one pitch summary and our internal team will assess them take echelon you you are admitted take the key that's how used to happen no serious review process was being conducted then because even intention was you know different for IT incubator but after we set up a sign as a business entity you know structure the whole incubation admission process which is very important because you know it it ensures to it is in fact if you are a running commercial entity you really want to create a successful entity out of the incubator and that's why you need good companies coming to the incubator also good appropriate process helps you know start of entrepreneurs to basically get insight into the kind of venture they are going into so you ask them to write a business plan you ask them to validate their assumptions yeah you ask them what kind of the team structure is going to be there and what kind of roles and obligation each each each founding member is going to play when they go through the process they actually get insight into the venture you know they go to the market try to figure out whether what whatever they are offering trying to offer whether there is a need in the market for that you know product offering or service offering or not it gives actually virtual insight into the ventures that they are getting into and the whole process become a very good mentoring process and like once they go through it so no one let me tell you you tell them to write a business plan no venture sticks to its business plan in its original form it's so dynamic you know circumstances are so different when you think of something but by while you do it things are so different so no one sticks to the business plan but it is very good to go through the process because it brings lots of maturity you know to the entrepreneur in the entrepreneur and they become adaptive to the situation much faster so as long as sign is concerned our admission processes you know we we have initial informal discussion with the company on their idea product services whatever is there and by discussing with them we we generally get a sense whether it is a goable doable or not and if it is if it gives us positive sense then then we tell them to write a business plan review is happening at two level once we do it internal review but we also have our own limitations to understand all the business plan all all domain and plus you know we are biased because we are the same community right so we send it for the external review process and our typical reviewers are entrepreneurs business experts or domain experts or the people you know who are investors industry professionals consultants those are the people who give us feedback and based on their feedback you know we take take a call whether to admit a company or not to admit a company and even if it is a strategic or social venture we follow the same process because for this venture maybe there may not be a huge valuation but sustainability is very important so any venture social venture coming to us at least we we insist that that is not NGO but you know it is a commercial venture which is a self-sustainable venture of course admission process is very important because you know good companies ensure success of the incubator there are no fixed criteria or yardstick how do we do review process but we pay attention to four five elements when we take a call on company when we admit one is business team and we generally do not take a single person team we insist for two to three you know core team members at a venture level because business is you know it comes with so many functions and there is a bandwidth issue for a single person to manage everything by himself or herself ideally team members should have you know complementary skills so like all technology members no understanding for market no understanding for operation or legal or financial issue doesn't make sense even if you are four five member team doesn't make sense yeah so we look at the profile of that in fact my favorite quote is that you know a grade business plan be great team and be great business plan a great team we will prefer this even if business plan is not clear but team is good ultimately they will execute because they will figure out the business dynamic and they will execute you are from business whether you agree for that or not also right second second thing is that market market analysis that is done by the team because you may have great you know the only product in the world but there may not be a market doesn't make sense to start a business based on that probably it looks good as a research project yeah but not really it doesn't make any business sense what is the service the same thing product solution service offering should be the need of the market if there is no need of the market you know doesn't make to set up a venture and like you know what kind of clarity this team has you know financial clarity what is their revenue assumptions on year on year basis how they are going to fund themselves are they planning to bootstrap some capital on trying to you know so you start with one like okay but one like will take you nowhere next month things will get over how do you do should have a roadmap on finance side also so these are the element we pay attention to when we deal with a particular business plan sorry long by no no no no not at all infrastructure belongs to IIT Bombay so that is part of our legal documents yeah but you can't offer your kalut ke unani default kiya you lose your infrastructure so you help them but you don't take away their responsibility all right you don't take their responsibility on you they have to figure out their own responsibility you can't offer your own asset as collateral it's out of question and that is why you're you're protecting your host interest otherwise one by one all you need to be gone in favor of the bank sorry you know you can have some understanding and then pass on such sure fire formula for failure you know but where where there's security and no no I think don't get into such complex things because you don't understand and offering your asset as collateral to your incubator company it's a sure for a fire formula for failure yeah no no I think no one will do it academic institute will not allow yeah that is one thing because what infrastructure all those things yeah no no but then he still requires you know for his own ongoing activity you know for marketing scaling up operation traveling all those things they require funding yeah infrastructure cost is taken care of yeah especially if you are developing a hardware product you know hardware product components and all those things need to be procured yeah capital expenses on higher side but I think as an academic institute it doesn't make sense to get into this you know complicated affair because the whole purpose is to provide a platform SME to come up right so you don't want to get into financial engineering part of the incubator asset that belongs to the incubator is on the book of the incubator but for example our our infrastructure incubator infrastructure IIT hasn't given least that asset to us yeah they have just allow us to operate our incubator from that land or premises whatever is there right so that infrastructure remains with IIT Bombay only but our computer or whatever equipments we have procured yeah all this comes on our the same furniture fixture electric items lab laboratory equipments video conferencing office productivity equipments that is our land land company they don't show us asset at all but they are not incurring expense here no but when they don't have any revenue they have to pay revenue you're starting off a business why you want to get into a financial engineering aspect all those things you know very large scale makes sense at a small level you don't when you're 100 crore company think about all this financial I think and it helps or even even for an first thing start of you know you don't have to worry about tax in first three years no startup I was out of 33 startup that we have incorporated only four or five are paying tax in first initial three three three years they might be revenue generating but their expense cycle is much or expense side is much more than revenue side that's one thing so that is one second thing is that you know at a startup level if you are text paying it enhances the profile yeah so I think no start up and then gone are the days where you know you had complicated structure and you can look at this aspect to save the tax and all those things are even getting reform on taxation side so I think no startup we will never advise our startup to get into financial engineering side keep the books very straightforward transparent pay whatever is due there and go ahead and specially at IPO level if a startup wants to go in the IPO level even if it's not incubative profile you know three years clean balance sheet will be a tremendous value will bring them tremendous value so when I say that you know admission process gives them virtual experience of a real business so like you know we always tell our boys that they generally there are lots of templates available on business plan you know you do google and you will hit some million uh million sites which will give you template for writing a business plan also writing your financial month spreadsheet will come and put some basic value and tada tada apaka pnn and balance sheet will be you know uh it will come out with proper pnn and balance sheet but we and we can figure out that who has done based on what kind of assumption or not so we always push our boys you know that you don't do business plan sitting in your own room or on half you go to the market you can actually do business in isolation you have to figure out the need of the market you have to meet the people you have to meet the investors you have to meet the consultant whether it is goable or not try to validate your assumptions yeah so team actually visits and studies you know uh various business elements of the real commercial world and that gives them lots of insight in the in the process also also you know detailed study actually gives them a sense on the viability of the business when you come with a idea it sounds very great but when you do the whole process then you realize you know it's not a in fact I I can give you some rough statistic you know one month in a month we get at least four five boys coming to us and talking about something and when we encourage them to write a business plan out of five you know three actually fizzles out in the process because you know the assumption that they feel is so and it's so narrow they feel something here it's a great business potential it is not the case yeah uh the whole process bring lots of clarity and confidence to the team so actually when they go for VC pitch you know suddenly you feel that this boys I become so like and I have seen in six months our boys have you know the whole profile of our boys have become so mature in fact recently we have one company which got funded by a VC institutional VC yeah and I remember when they came to us it was basically it's in the mechatronics area the company is in mechatronics area and the IIT Bombay recent graduate very clear I don't want to work I want to start something on a on on my own and then boys did something some work on robotics and all those things so they started conducting robotic workshop yeah without any business plan kaha pejai and down the line three four years what we will do what will be our positioning yeah market positioning well what what is the offering from the company no idea generally try to figure out if we want to go and get into robotic whether it works or not and it was very interesting you know in one year they generated revenue of 60laks which was really impressive absolutely no experience no understanding of the market they just went into it and started doing conducting workshop and as a part of workshop they will sell their robocopes and some you know 10 months they generated revenue of 60laks and then they came to us for business incubation and that time also they had no clarity how do we go about it but we like the boys very much and in fact we told them roughly write a business plan but also business plan was also like you know not really very this thing maturity but finally we took them in now next how do we scale off because you keep on conducting workshop so you go it becomes a very ad hoc approach right okay in college may you go to this color conduct workshop whatever you on again second workshop you have to spend the money it's not a scalable business model because workshop again to conduct a workshop will require people and these boys were hiring IIT students on ad hoc basis for two to three days pay them and they would conduct the workshop that is not a scalable model second thing in robotics itself you have so many you know vertical you have so they were addressing some education robot but you have service robot you have industrial robos you have you know defense robos now what and you can do everything yeah being a small startup so you have to focus on one particular vertical and sign that time we felt that since they were they have understood you know academic segment very well let them continue with the student community in academic segment with certain you know refinement on their execution side and business model side and then company also needed fund basically for scaling up so we went to one particular way we see very clear I am not going to fund this company there and he gave a very good idea okay if you create a puppet robot I will fund but not this this company yeah then there was one business plan competition very high profile another high profile we see from Silicon Valley said that yeah you guys are very impressive but if you get into service robot I am ready to fund you so lots of you know you get so many diverse viewpoint because now I have focus on academic side and suddenly I am getting you know inputs which distracts my focus yeah but we still felt that you just go because that is where they had execute have understood the market yeah we put them to couple of mentors and those mentors also felt that you get into this only we will figure out funding requirement where you have decent revenue to keep going with your you know operation at the moment and on education side then we systemize the whole value offering yeah and again we went to the same VC who said no those VC have funded this company because they are now positioning value offering is so clear so crystal clear there is a huge scale also and the company got valued I think at the valuation of 9 crore yeah so 90 90 million Indian rupees 9 crore so it's a pretty pretty decent evaluation that the company got and so I think that is where I say that once you go through the review process and the whole thing happened during review process only yeah so it's very important and that's the reason I was telling you earlier also in you know focus yeah focus the area where you understand if we don't understand you know robotics robotics basically we have internal expertise at IIT mom may we talk to the people and you know lots of inputs basically we get from them or we have broad understanding about that area that you don't understand don't get into it because you will not be able to help your company unless you are a rental model that's a different issue yeah then it also becomes a strong mentoring process one way I said that we heard them you know write a business plan in the process we advise them but more importantly you know since the review is happening or review processes being done by external experts their feedback is very important for these people because they are the real business world and their feedback basically you know when they get feedback from the real world and then they focus on it you know it's a great source of you know getting validation that what I'm doing is correct yeah now after that you know you may not like you know you may not be a fundable company in initial day but by conducting this and by spreading business plan to this set of people you get noticed by you you know your companies get noticed by these people and they start tracking them so this robotics is a classic example right then okay you can approve our business but it's not a fundable company and eventually same businesses have funded that company yeah so they they also start tracking the company I mentioned how do you walk on a attracting entrepreneurs yeah in in in academic environment it's a very difficult job yeah so before you start talking about you know okay you come and start your venture I think it is important to create visibility of the incubator itself show your successes bring your yesterday passion and all those people they are very good cases for ourselves and when when we take them to our students during you know that student program and they take you know this is a home product easy to relate with yeah I'm not talking about enforces Narayan Moti and then Nile Kenny which is not okay everyone can't achieve but Russian Girish Saraf you know Kashyap Kashyap has become yesterday Kashyap was that Kashyap Devra was right he's a serial entrepreneur yeah first venture was that now he has set up another venture yeah easy to relate with them right and how do basically so bring those people and create visibility that they are our own people and what we are doing and how we are helping it's important to create in our case every student event be it breakfast be it you know cultural mood indigo be it easel event we are always there sign is always there yeah and that's how it has helped every department we periodically go and talk to the departments in fact we face many time very knife question why it is focus is only research are you distracting people you know all those nine questions also but we address them so I think it is important first to create a visibility for the incubator then you know address address the limitation of the target target audience because they have different priority now this faculty member there is a you know safe route to commercialize technology so why should I get into this Jamila of you know entrepreneurship it's a risky business you need to explain why it is necessary to get into it what are the upside of the scaling upside of setting your own manager and even student community we have a standard pitch to our student that job market is not difficult these days try experiment for couple of years if you if it feels fine you go and get absorbed in the job but it is worth experimenting and this funded company is actually you know becomes a very good role model for us funded or any successful companies you know which are sustainable on its own yeah so several approach to type entrepreneurs what we do is that you know for us like I always say that our job is job begins much before the idea comes to the business incubator we constantly keep our self updated with institutional activity we go to our dean rnd office try to figure out who is doing what kind of activity where is the industry trend going on so on so forth in the process we figure out also that try to figure out that which is the faculty who is exposed to the commercial world try to talk to them and try to you know bring them to the incubator levels I said that I have already said talking at the department level participate in academic program project me real life story some of the cases have been are being even taught at our school of management and is a great place to get the feel of the student trend yeah and then you can capture them E cell is entrepreneurship cell on the campus I think now most of the college has E cells on their campuses yeah successful companies they are the best role model and like you know informal informal interaction it has helped us a lot we generally help so I told you I come with a legal and compliance background yeah now most of the faculty member even our dean rnd cell doesn't have that much legal competence so whenever they talk about technology like you know they are interacting with industry negotiation and all those things or any agreement whether sign gets anything or not I just help them yeah and that enhances lots of confidence in the community okay here is the set of people you will get a good advice from from them so I think this kind of informal interaction always you know helps in the it has a good impact legal framework we have commercial agreements with the companies facility agreement agreement for consideration which is equity rent as well as revenue sharing we also incorporate conflicting issues aspect in this agreement there are separate agreement for the agreement for transfer of technology which is you know between the institute sign and the companies here and all our agreement has this two clauses indemnification and disclaimer in favor of sign as well as in favor of our incubator that by incubating new in the company we don't you know assure that you will be a successful entity otherwise like who knows sometimes you know this product mean walk and suddenly you have some damage claim coming on you so all agreements actually take care of this indemnification is that because of your action if I face any problem entire cost has to be born by you we have all agreements disclaimer is that by having you are by transferring technology by being an incubating or IIT Bombay technology doesn't ensure I am giving you example yeah doesn't necessarily you know guarantee that it's a workable or it is you know you will be successful all all these things yeah some concluding remarks high standards are set for the company at the initial stage you know it's good that if you have appropriate admission process you really set very high standard for them because whatever you discuss or businessman actually becomes the benchmark for reviewing their progress you know for the company it also brings visibility to the company and the incubator it enhances the chances for the company's success certainly we have seen when compare IIT incubator and sign incubator we have created you know 33 company over a period of 7 years I feel it is a pretty decent number initially 14 companies we got two opportunities subsequently 17 18 company we got eight opportunities in first two years to liquidate our equity that means eight companies got investment yeah and then finally success of the company also ensure success of the incubator any question thank you