 Welcome once again to the breakfast here on Plus TV Africa. Our first major conversation for today moves to the southeast, where the southeast governors will be meeting along with Honez and Digbo and traditional leadership in the southeast to discuss very, very vital and important issues, mostly, well, I'm guessing one of the things that they will be bringing up is the security challenges currently the southeast is currently dealing with. We have joined this morning by Mr. Chukuma Okewa, the public affairs analyst and entrepreneur. Good morning. Thanks for joining us. Yeah. Good morning. Yeah. Pleasure. All right. We also have Bossinde Araikbe, who's joining us, a security expert. Good morning, Mr. Araikbe. Welcome. We're very well. Thanks for joining us. Welcome. All right. I'm going to start with Mr. Okewa and get your views first of all on how important you think this meeting is between the southeast governors and the political traditional leadership in the southeast. Is it a little too late, or is it perfect timing that these discussions are had? Well, it's late, but as he said, better than late than never, because this meeting is one with anti-attisputed, who's spoken about with advice on the need for governors to meet, and of course, have a timely conversation on how to stand the tide with respect to the rising security challenges in the southeast. Unfortunately, they have kept a blind eye, why would say business is collapsed, business is crippled in the southeast, and no one seemed to be doing anything. So now that perhaps after about six weeks of losing the first one week in a week, they are not thinking of meeting together. I think it's commendable, but I do hope that they come up with conversations that are timely and that are expected, rather than maybe like touching on every other issue, apart from the major one that we have to ensure that businesses are restored back to normal service. All right. Mr. Arape, you're a security expert. Share with us what you think the focus of this discussion should be. Mr. Arape, can you hear us? All right. I'm saying that you're a security expert, so I want you to share with us what you think the focus of these conversations should be between the southeast governors and traditional rulership. Thank you very much, Mr. Arape. Mr. Arape, you're a security expert, so I want you to share with us what you think the focus of this discussion should be. Mr. Arape, you're a security expert, so I want you to share with us what you think the focus of this discussion should be. Okay. Go on there, but I want you to share from your knowledge that you have as a security expert, what do you think is currently going on in the southeast. Are these elements of the IPOB or are these really just criminal elements who have taken advantage of the IPOB narrative and the lack of security and infrastructure in the southeast in the political but at the same time you also have to as the as the as the as the as the as the as the as the as the as the as the as the as the as the as the as the as the as the as the as the as the as the as the as the We are in favor of each time they have a large number of people. And we should pay our commission to allow them to overlook the number one structure, which is the peaceful large time of the people that are living so much and sleeping in the tenders and we are negotiating on the platform of political and other organizations. It is very important that this power comes to realize this. But unlike that, that we are not in power and violence is not that important. All right, hold on a second. So then, to keep making that whole commitment to the large number of people, we must keep the large number of people, and to make sure that the government of the federal government is able to do the job that the large number of people are living. We must keep the large number of people without the power to do the work. And that is not the only thing that the main power of the people is the government. So I think it's a big portion of what this is about. We should not be alarmed. What about you? All right. Hold on, Mr. Araike. Chukumau Kenwa, let me go back to you now to also get your views on what exactly might be going on because we've had very, very sad stories from the South East in the last couple of weeks. The biggest shock, of course, would be the killing of Dr. Chike Akunili. But, you know, that is just one, you know, dozens of different incidents. Joey Bukui's house, of course, was affected over the weekend. So I want you to share your thoughts on what you think might be going on. Are these IPOB elements that seem to be wrecking havoc or criminal elements who have taken advantage of, you know, the narrative in the Southeast and are going after who they, you know, think, you know, benefits from the government? I think one of the things that is happening of lately is that some enemies of the South East are trying to create a certain version of the Eastern narrative in the North. We know that the North East is largely, you know, a kind of tackle with insecurity. They are faced with the challenge of insecurity and that has, of course, limited the region for years. And that's exactly what is fast becoming. Endlessly, when I look at the way the IPOB agitation started and what it has turned into. Mr. Akunili, we seem to have lost sound from your end. We need to reconnect with Dr. Kumaw Kenwa there. Mr. Araike, can you still hear us? Okay, all right. It's a very, very difficult situation and I know that the Southeast Governors will be, you know, on their toes, I believe, to ensure that they sort these things out. But can you address also the failure of the IPOB in being able to clarify exactly who these people are that have created all the chaos and attention in the Southeast? Because they've always put out statements saying that these are not their members. Can you hear me clearly? Can you hear me clearly now? I can hear you. Okay, so I'm asking, do you think that the IPOB itself has also failed when they put out statements denouncing these actions and these, you know, crimes that are being committed? Do you think that they should do better if they want anyone to believe that they're not the ones responsible? Well, I think the IPOB coming out to denounce the attack that they are not the ones responsible. First of all, to them, it's a way of trying to get members of the public to still be in support of their fight. That is for those that are supporting them. They are trying to make sure that their fund beads, their support beads, is not crowded with rumors of attacking harmless innocent civilians, you know, family in their agitation process for a pressure-independent entity. And that's what I think they're doing. But personally, and they're generalizing it, I think it's not of any use. It's not of any use because right now, because of their previous antecedents, anything, there are anything that are not regarding the situation. The IPOB will be an example for security agencies to end their investigation and look for an easy way out, whether they are the ones that are threatening me or not. But, however, for a group like IPOB to tell you we are not the one that has told you, I think it is actually true. But if they have done it, they will not deny it. In the past, their target has carried out all that they are responsible. They have always manned up the use of the money. And the ones that they are not are seen as to bring a bad man to their fight and to always come out to explode the information from the public that's running them. For what I think that could be happening, I do. I think IPOB should focus more on getting international support rather than allowing some kind of economic entity that has been affecting especially the people. You know, when you shut down the whole of the country, you are shut down a full economic hub and benefit the locals more. And there is very little message sent to the Nigerian government. You see, when you shut down the legal state, the Nigerian government is not shut down. When you shut down the legal state, make up to be really important like a center. See, not has much of a speech. There are in growth, as you can see, go to the next group to get up to the country and put up with the outside of the area. So when you shut down your police, you shut down local people, you shut down local business, you shut down the market, you survive from a case. You shut down on Kulemeka, you try to get this from that business. You do not affect anyone, you do not affect the people. You do not accept any idea, and you do not accept any kind of idea. You only affect the maker and the business. That is it. So you must look for better and more reliable legal people that will command the support of every local person in the people land if you must push what you are pushing. But anyone that would make them back and be as detrimental as the current activities that make them back home. I think they should stop that. All right. Hold on, Mr. Arakbe. I ask the mind and the mind of members of the problem, especially the illogical, two of them. So it's not a defeat in their fight. That is what I think. I think the Nigerian government should... Mr. Arakbe, kindly hold on. And get properly involved. All right. Kindly hold on. I want to bring back Chukumau Kenwa. Mr. Arakbe, can you hear us clearly now? Yeah, I can hear you. Okay, so go ahead with your thoughts on what you think might be going on in the Southeast. And then I want you to wrap it... Well, move into talking about something that I had spoken about before. And that is questioning who really is in charge of the Southeast. Who do the people really listen to? Is it the leadership? Political leadership? Is it the traditional leadership? Is it the Hades Endigbo? Who really do they listen to? And that would help us determine what the use of this Southeast Governor's meeting would be. But go ahead. Suddenly, at the moment, the people have lost the confidence in the elected leadership. And we see a hijack by non-state actors, like every morning in the Saudis, like over the weekend, people are wondering, what did I pop say? Are we returning to work on Monday? Will they have to work on... That is quite disappointing for that leadership gap. And that's part of one of the things we want them to look at tomorrow, how they can actually bridge that gap, that leadership gap, for losing people to the extent that people could... I prefer to follow the instruction of non-state actors above the elected leadership. I mean, it really calls for concern. And then, based on the issue of who actually is in charge, who is responsible for all of this, like I did mention before, it has gone beyond that for enemies of the Saudis are actually working against the interests of the region. So thank you so much. I'll explain exactly what that means. Enemies of the Southeast working against the interests of the Saudis. What does that mean? Yes. Of course, I see some interest, like already before now, we've seen, just like in terms of even from our initial, when we saw peaceful protests, it was a case of, like, treating one region of the country as more important than the others. One region, you have, like, some certain behaviors. You treat it with all of the full military might. In some other cases, we see negotiations and all of it. So I see that the way the presidency and the LG has handled this issue have not shown fairness and equity because all that we see, even from the iPod, in terms of extremism, was created by the government based on the way it handled this matter. And I see that the North has certain interests. Like I mentioned before, they want to create an Eastern version of the South, right? Just like you have the North, not Eastern version of the North, you know, so which should not be so... Okay, so what you're saying is that some of these people that are committing these crimes, arson, burning down DSS offices, FRSC offices, attacking police officers, murdering people in the Southeast, may be orchestrated by interests from outside the Southeast and not the iPod. That's exactly it. That's exactly it. Thank you so much. Okay, now tell me more about what you think the Southeast and Governors can achieve. If you've already stated that they are not necessarily in charge of, you know, the Southeast, political leadership, you know, is not necessarily in charge, what can they achieve with these discussions? Would they be seeking more security work or more assistance from security agencies in the Southeast? They need to work on the mind of the people, come up with a strategy to work on the mind of the people to regain their confidence. And with that, the Southeast got moved forward. People should be able to take instruction from elected leaders, not from non-state actors. How possible is that going to be seeing that these are the same people that have been there, you know, for the last six years? It is possible. That is what they have not done, and that is to engage in dialogue. With dialogue, they can actually achieve their own goals. By launching, of course, a strategic psychological operations to work on the mind of the citizens. All right, Mr. Reichbeck, can you hear us clearly? All right, so Mr. Okawa believes that, you know, some of the people who are committing these atrocities and the processes in the Southeast are, you know, not necessarily people, you know, or rather they have been supported by forces outside the Southeast to create a similar situation like what we've seen in Northeast Nigeria. Do you agree that there is that possibility? No, because even if it is not possible, we only can do it while the human will actually be on the ice with you. It's because the results of that are bigger. You understand me? But as for this, for instance, I think in the past, I have been struggling so much that I let a formal resistance from all parts of the country just like the other people have said. This kind of similarity is probably not possible. I cannot see the policy being that I can build up not the strong will of this country. I'm a good scholar. I think you have to be good at what you're doing. I am showing that all the government is a scholar that has been supported. You have to be good at what you're doing so that they are able to keep them out of their situation, get proper evidence, publish it in the media that your men handle that place and you get money back. So that the public will be given that they are letting back the people of this country. Because the men are doing that and the public is doing that. And you know this. And that is bad for what they are doing. For this country, we have to find the cause. Because why would they like to be doing this? How far from this is the truth? How good is the law? What is the law? What is the law? What is the relationship? What is the proper relationship? What are the things you do with your children? How do you know that the situation is coming into your life of being without you? You know, when you have the power, you have, you have, I say, you have time to do it. It's, it's not easy at all. You are having a big failure. You are a failure. It's nice not to have to do it. You don't have to do it. You don't have to do it. You don't have to do it. I said there's not a failure. Okay, well, I'll, you know, first of all, I'll say it's, it's not very clear. I'm getting feed from you, Mr. Reiper. I'm not sure why, but you know, we're struggling to hear exactly, you know, what you're saying. But I would keep it going. I want, you know, you to also share your thoughts on why it seems almost impossible or the security agencies in the southeast have not been able to address these challenges. If houses can be so easily burnt, if police stations can be attacked so easily, FRSC office, even the DSS office can so be so easily attacked. And we've not seen any arrests. We've not seen any, you know, work by security agencies to capture these persons. What does that tell you, Mr. Reiper? Mr. Reiper, can you hear us? Yes, I can hear you. Okay, you're talking to me. Yes. Okay, well, the security agencies, the truth is that they are limited. We all know that our grand security agencies are not well-funded and equipped to run a normal, violent free society. How much more is a very intense environment where you even have people and hands available? Security agencies are not equipped to even do normal ordinary investigation that has to do with free fighting. How much more is the whole size of the ocean like this? They are not equipped. And even if they are equipped, we don't see them making this progress. Because, see, this is real peaceful, it's something. So none of us, members of the security agencies, a lot of them in this part of the country, are not indigenous. If they begin to work properly and begin to do taxis and liquefies, they should be attributed to the shop that because they are not indigenous, they are having to be indigenous and doing this and that. And as they are not working as I know, and as they are not equipped as I know, if it is seen as indigenous, some process for people. So they are caught in the middle of a big issue. There is very little they can do. However, those that are equipped to not do that, if I may advise the security agencies, I would advise them to do local. I would advise them to go intelligently. I would advise them to do the whole intelligently job. I would advise them to do more of these approaches in this situation. Honour the crime fighters, because if they want to go head to head, I am not sure that they can put in wheel and in performance and in equitability. You know, certainly innocent people just end up paying too much crime. So I think they should be more of these leaders at this point. If they are able to choose this idea of being a bridge between them. Okay, but I don't know if I would agree that they have their weaknesses here and there as security agencies. But to be completely silent is what a lot of people may not agree with. So maybe we would assume they are working behind the scenes to see how they can address these challenges. But if weeks after, we still haven't seen any arrests or we still haven't seen any proper work being done, then it might mean something entirely different. Mr. Arake, I also want you to share your thoughts on funding, because these criminal elements seem to be getting support somehow, some way, either from ammunition or funding or petrol or vehicles. But there is definitely something that is funding these attacks. So what do you think it might be? Well, I think funding. First of all, I am not an IT officer, so I may not know about the funding. And so after that question about their funding, I think you should try to reach your question. I think you didn't get the question right. Mr. Arake. If I make you understand my view, I will say when people come together to contribute, if there are 1,000,000 people, you know, 1,000,000 people, that's what I will say. So moving forward, I think the criteria is that you cannot certainly make any arrests. You can only arrest who you move and who you can reach. You can't arrest a student. You understand me? This will not come down to tell you I can't be arrested. As I speak to you in Anambra, I have some people on ground because I am supposed to be in Anambra. This will be. I have people on ground. And I am aware that something that I tell to people, some local environment, really comes from where of her or which I tell to people from places. In some places, the police stations are not functional. And the policemen are telling you we cannot reach them to work. We have searched our lives. Is that the same policeman you are asking to make an arrest? Who is he going to arrest? The one who said that? No. And I don't blame him. I don't think it is what the police is like. It can be dying, killing people in the police. That will be settled tomorrow. And Anambra will be given to killers. You have killed military officers, police officers, made their wives, widows, killed children, kidnapped girls and pregnant women. And then all government will tell me they are giving them Anambra. And I will say, Anambra is dead. Is it? So I don't think it is what the life of the policeman is. Because when he finished performing, we are talking to three agents, he, the military, he, the department of police, he, the police. I don't think it is what your life is. Because when they finish dying for this situation, the more the government will see that nobody will be granted an arrest. And then their children will certainly be their widows. They are not going to take hope. I don't think it is what your life is. All right. The time of this situation is here at the Langevin. All right. Mr. Ikebi. Mr. Ikebi. The government moves out to destroy people. The Minister for Labor is an Igbo man. Anambra is dead. The President should immediately send him back home to talk to his people. That is what happened. That is how the government, what is how the government, what is how the government is going to become in those days. The then Vice President, Mr. Ikebi, was sent back home to discuss with the people which he did. And after that, he got killed. So the Minister for Labor, an Igbo man should be sent back home. The Minister of Foreign Affairs, an Igbo man should be sent back home. Every Minister from the Igbo tribe should be sent back to their state to go and begin to go into discussions and come up with his results for the federal government. Because at the federal institution of that environment, with that responsibility, they should all be sent back home to go and talk to his people. They shouldn't be sitting in a good house talking. They shouldn't be talking. That is the only way we can move our head forward. Once we move forward, let the politicians with appointments in the federal environment be sent back home. It's an exception to absorb the things and bring the solution for all parties. And if they can't, they should leave that position. That is what we call for. That's the solution. Allow them to go and sacrifice themselves for what they do not know. Tango, they are not going to be pushing us. Tango, they are not going to be pushing us. They are shooting down the government. It's the job of those politicians from those regions who have talked to the children's government that these people are talking to. They will now call who are the representation of the federal government by a country and the indigenous of this environment by death and what's left. All right. I also want to ask Mr. Araikou, you've mentioned dialogue and negotiation. There's also, of course, those who would say that force would be a better option. And I'm asking this now because the Army has its annual operations across the country. There has been the Python dance in the southeast for a couple of years now. And it's, of course, has released a statement saying that there would be another, the start of another Army operation in the southeast. It says here that it's going to be running concurrently in the second, sixth, 81st and 82nd divisions of the southwest, south-south, and southeast regions respectively. Do you think that this might also be the answer or at least it would create some peace in the southeast all through the period that these Army operations are going to be running? I have two views. To the people of the south-south, sorry, some of the southeast, this would be another operation against them. In that trending something on their fundamental human rights, that the military in a democratic setting would be assuming so much force to turn that operation into an army which is ordinarily difficult to believe. And the public who, whoever can support them on the south-east would try this in international media. And it will again influence the federal government and the Nigerian public in bad life with regard to human rights and appeal, which definitely will happen when the army comes. True. The second view is this. It's the federal government because the army is the federal government. The President is the commander in chief. Such cannot happen without his permission. If the army wants to carry out this kind of operation and contemplating the use of force in the south-east, I want you to know that this same army has been in the north in all parts of the north, fighting in sojourn. If the same force they want to bring to the south, except that it's worth if they are successful. Have they been able to stop the Boko Haram? Have they been able to stop the Hexmen? With all this force we use in Burma, if some of these are not still occupied by the Boko Haram? All right. Of course, going through these conversations, mostly concerning the issues in the south-east and what must be done. We are also shadowed to have a conversation with the police public relations officer in Anambra State to share with us, of course, feed from what happened nearly over the weekend and what is currently being done to create some peace in the south-east. We're going to take a short break and when we come back, we, of course, continue the conversation with Mr. Araipi just before the PR all joins us. So stay with us here on the breakfast. We'll be back.