 Welcome, and thank you for joining us for this panel, which will discuss BRICS in expansion. My name is Nadine Hani. I present the business news on the Arabian news network, broadcasting out of Dubai and Riyadh, and it is my pleasure to be here with you today, once again in Davos, to moderate this panel. This panel is being televised and broadcasted on the Arabian business as we speak. As we all know, the acronym BRICS was first coined by the famous Goldman Sachs economist Jim O'Neill in 2001, predicting that the economic weight of these countries could eclipse the world's biggest economies in the decade that followed. In 2010, South Africa joined the group and it became BRICS. No additions were made after that, until last year, when six countries were invited to join, Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia, Iran, Egypt, the UAE, and Argentina, which recently announced formally that it will not join the group. BRICS was never a formal organization or alliance with the legally binding contract, but rather a group of countries that with its possible expansion now will contain 46 percent of the world's population and 25 percent of global exports. Its GDP will then exceed that of the G7. The bloc calls for a united stand of emerging and developing countries, yet there is a large divergence between its member countries. So can it forge consensus among its diverse members? And to what extent can it contribute to the reshaping of the global geopolitical and economic landscape? These are some of the questions that we will try to answer over the next 45 minutes. Before we start our conversation, I would like to note that we have some speakers who will not speak in English, so please, there is simultaneous translation. You can use your translation kits on the seats if you would like to listen in your own language or in English. Also if you would like to share with us, also for our online audiences, if you would like to share about us on social media, please use the hashtag weff24. And for the audience in the room, welcome, and I will give you the chance to address your questions to our speakers a little bit later on. So please start preparing your questions. So please join me in welcoming our esteemed speakers. We have here next to me his Excellency, Mr. Abdullah Bentoq el-Marri, Minister of Economy of the United Arab Emirates. Next to him is her Excellency, Madame Smriti Irani, Minister of Women and Child Development of India. We have with us also his Excellency, Mr. Inak Godongwana, Minister of Finance of South Africa, and Mr. Jifan Gao, Chairman and CEO of Trina Solar from the People's Republic of China. Thank you so much, speakers, for taking the time to be here with us today. Your Excellency, Mr. El-Marri, let me start with you. The UAE has joined BRICS. What were the reasons for joining BRICS and what economic or other value could that bring to the UAE? First of all, thank you so much. I'm very happy to be here on stage with you all, really talking about the BRICS, talking about engagement. It's great to be here in Davos, beginning of the year 2024, really putting, setting aside the policies and agendas for the coming year. I think joining the BRICS, first of all, the invitation, we are very committed to really join. It's a commitment not just on the level of the UAE, but the world. His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed al-Nahya, the President of the UAE, has said by joining the BRICS on the ex-platform, he said, we're not just committed to the BRICS, we're committed to humanity and the people of the world. So joining it is as well on the last levels of work that we'll be doing on the leadership level. We'll be in the guest country for G20 in India, in the guest country in the G20 in Indonesia, we're a guest country in G20 as well in Brazil, and we're continuing as well our work on the levels of international policies to really bring together the world in engagement. We are living a fragmented world. Last year, we spoke about entering a fragmented world. Today, we are in a fragmented world. Now, we need to go to these engagements and aspects where we really need to discuss, creating as well discussions. And the South-South is the most important aspect for us. We are the UAE in the middle of the world. A lot of businesses, a lot of trade, and a lot of ways that comes through the UAE and as well down to the South. And I think looking at the BRICS and being part of it will bring a lot of value from not the geopolitical level, but from a geoeconomic level. And I think that's something where the UAE can play a role and a pivotal role in the engagement on the global level when it comes to BRICS. This engagement as well brings a lot of as well investments. The UAE has well committed the sum of money into the BRICS Bank, Development Bank, and we're looking as well within the BRICS Development Bank to work together as well on investment in infrastructure and aspects as well into the BRICS nations. We're looking forward to the infrastructure. We're looking forward to the bridges between our nations and friends and colleagues around the BRICS institution and looking forward as well engaging in economic policies as well globally. Your Excellency, Mr. Godongwana, South Africa joined BRICS in 2010. As I had mentioned, there had been no additions until last year, the summit in Johannesburg when the invitations were sent to six countries to join BRICS. Why has that happened now? The issue of BRICS expansion is not something that emerged during last year. It has been an ongoing debate, for instance, within the new Development Bank. An extension was already read before the political extension. A number of countries have joined the new Development Bank. So there has been a discussion of expansion both at the bank level and at the political level to the realist focus as well as my colleague has said. The key issue is how do we mobilize savings of the South in order to ensure that we can have a better development agenda for the South. That's a critical part of it. But of course, there's also a common agenda which we share. As you can see, most of these countries are not necessarily the same on a number of areas. But there's common minimum program where we would agree upon a common development agenda, a common view that there needs to be a reform of the international institutions. You say that this has been in the works for quite some time. But when we look at the original members of BRICS, the five countries, who were the proponents or were wanting to expand that alliance? I think there's, I can't put that as a proponent. There's general agreement. What would have delayed it is the discussion about the criteria, what criteria we're going to use in the selection process. So that has taken a bit of some time. Of course, we may not have been on the same page, ideological on a number, how we see, we look at each country with the same ideological lens. Those things have had an impact. And you say that there were some metrics taken into consideration for who to join. What were those metrics? Look, at the moment, that was done by my colleagues at the political level. My side is always the easiest track, which is the finance track. We, when we're looking at the NDP, we're looking at the, really at the strength of each country, its governance, financial governance, and so on. That's largely from our side, whether it's likely to impact on the rating of the banks. So we kind of, technical on our side, it's mostly our colleagues from far enough as a grappler with those questions. Your Excellency, Madame Irani, how does India perceive the expansion of BRICS? I think in the shadow of what the minister just said, one has to say that this was the elegance that is expected of BRICS, that there is no race to claim stake at who succeeded in expanding BRICS, speaks volumes about the fact that BRICS is a platform of consensus, takes into consideration not only the financial prowess of the region, but also the aspirations of people who want to leverage it for the global good. So insofar as India is concerned, and as the gender minister of India, I'm extremely proud that our colleagues in South Africa gave prominence to gender and inclusion in not only the financial segment, but also looking from a lens of social justice, that this combine of nationalities could bring forth that you can succeed financially and at the same time ascertain methodologies that will ensure that resources that are needed for a plethora of all communities can be exercised. But if I were to ask you, your Excellency, to remove your cap as minister for gender and put your cap as a representative of India on the panel, how was India a proponent of the expansion of BRICS? How does this- Like I said, I shall follow in the elegance of my colleagues and say, and I think that it makes for healthy politics domestically and internationally when you're not in the race for claiming success individually, but you understand the potential as a unit that you can leverage for not only the good or the benefit of the people of your region, but also internationalize that benefit. I am extremely grateful that you asked me to remove my gender hat thereby signaling that I speak for gender across the world, but as an Indian also, we have potentially proven the point of growth, reform, and at the same time ensuring social justice and delivering both social justice, reform, resurgence of segments of economy that are otherwise not considered, and at the same time deliver on democracy. If one has to look at the Indian position, what do we have to offer? The celebration at BRICS about our mission's courtesy ISRO when we landed on the dark side of the moon was not a celebration limited to India alone. The cooperation in space technology is something that has been written about. In India, we send a mission to Mars at a budget less than it takes to produce a Tom Cruise movie. The fact that we have 265 million Indian children in grade 12, 41 million Indian youngsters in higher education, the fact that we have internationalized our learning potentials, we have 12 billion plus QR codes only on learning, the fact that we have the largest contingent of ID professionals deployed internationally, and in this year alone in India, 2024, the need for data science and ID professionals only in India is one million. The fact that we are the largest producers in the world for rice, wheat, milk, pulses, fruits, BRICS is the place to be, I think in an expanded version, when you want to ensure that we become one of the bridges between the Global North and the Global South. Mr. Gao, you cannot speak on behalf of the government, but you are a representative of the private sector in China. So let me ask you, how does the private sector in China perceive the expansion of BRICS? Can I repeat the question, or did the translation get it? Okay. Okay, okay. Well, the expansion of BRICS has led to, it's covering 3.5 billion people and 29% of world GDP. And globalization is a topic for everyone. And when we talk about climate change and the energy transition, they are equally global. In 2023, solar new capacity added in all the BRICS countries was 55% of the world. China was the leader. We had 40% of the world's installed capacity last year. And India is also a leader. It's in the top three countries in terms of installed capacity for solar. In Latin America, Brazil accounts for 65% and South Africa accounts for 70% of installed capacity in Africa. The UAE, Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern states have also announced ambitious plans for renewable energy development. Developing renewables is not just about climate change, but also achieving green development. And when we look at the BRICS countries, if we talk about energy technology as well as the energy transition, they are world leaders. So this is not just about sharing between the BRICS countries in terms of green development. It's also about making our contribution to the world, spreading green technology in order to better stimulate the green transition. Now, when I talk about green development, it's not just about climate change. It's also about reducing poverty. And I mean that when I say it. In the South, we have lots of land and lots of sunlight. If you can use new energy technologies and set up solar cells, it's much easier to establish industries, factories and places where I otherwise couldn't. And that allows developing countries to develop faster and better. And so cooperation between BRICS countries is good for renewable energy but also for the development of other industries. So that's a contribution to the world economy as well as to the struggle against climate change. Thank you, Mr. Gao. I know that you are all keen to discuss the economic benefits of BRICS expansion and I will ask you about that because I think this is a very important point to discuss. However, we need to also put or answer questions about the political context of what is happening. So just let me ask you one more question on that level before we go into the economics. Your excellency, Mr. Elmerie, when the UAE decided to join, it joined at a time where there is extreme polarization in the world. It joined at a time where there is the Ukraine-Russia war and Russia is under sanctions and there is the trade war between the United States and China and also there are some sanctions on technological sectors and others in China. So how does the UAE perceive the political dimension of becoming a member of BRICS? All right, thank you, Nadine, for the question. I think the, first of all, let's clear things up. I think we're not living in a Cold War environment at the moment and joining the BRICS is not from a political stance, it's from an economic stance. The UAE joining it, yes, polarization has happened, it has happened in unprecedented since 1980s, but the joining of the BRICS is more of the kind of the South agenda putting place, the kind of thinking of engaging as well, traders, trade, supplies, demand. And when we look at it today, the UAE or the economy in the world, we're looking from a supply and demand chart. Demand is high, supply is low. And I think that that's what the reason of the inflation increase. I've been reading the news of the financial times this morning, Christine Lagarde saying there's no cuts, I think, till the end of summer. And I think there's inflation is back up in the UK the 10th after 10 months of low inflation. So there is a lot of inflation demanding a lot of people on products and services have happened. But without the South agenda looking from an economic perspective, really putting together an agenda of trade, an agenda of economy, towards as well our colleagues are looking from a perspective of really giving supply to markets in need of that kind of aspect to something which is an important pillar. From that, I'll probably say, I think the discussion of joining the BRICS or not joining the BRICS, BRICS is an institution, it's an organization that really puts as well a different agenda on track. The UAE is engaging in all tracks to it. Now, the UAE will always engage the West. We have as well a huge engagement politically with the UN Security Council, with the other as well organization, the OECD. We do a lot of engagement with the G20, like I said. And I think the important aspect of it as well that this engagement in a fragmented world that we're living in is creating new ways of actually dealing, new ways of actually putting things, to really give the supply side of what was needed to reduce inflation on people and on economies to really grow the economies moving forward. Now, that's the kind of look for for the UAE on this perspective. Madam Irani, you come from a country that has very good relationship with the West and you are one of the original members of BRICS. How does India balance between the two differing agendas of the other members of BRICS? If the agenda is growth, if the agenda is inclusion, if the agenda is servicing global aspirations, then India is well positioned to be a bridge no matter what the conversation or what the geography. But today the agenda is to a certain extent also political. I think that if you take forward from what the gentleman has just said and just look at it fiscally. Today in India, we've had three years of growth of 7% plus and this is in the shadow of the pandemic. In India now our governor of the RBI, which is our central bank, the projections for the next financial year is a 7% growth as well. IMF has said that India will contribute 16% to the global growth. We have also managed in the past nine years to bring 240 million Indians out of multi-dimensional poverty. Our inflation rates today are in fact lower than that they were a decade ago. So when it comes to practices where we share not only the agenda of fiscal discipline, we can also say that irrespective of the pandemic and how we service the needs of our people in the pandemic, we also looked at it as an opportunity to bring about reform for businesses, not only in India, but for investors worldwide. Today our stock exchange has overtaken some very established old giants, but at the same time we have used this time to take away 63,000 compliances that were hindering businesses in India and our foreign partners. And we have done away with over a thousand obsolete laws. So India has made a case not only for fiscal prudency, fiscal growth, but also made a case for reform. And at the same time we have used our digital infrastructure today on the promenade, the buzzword is technology. As the chair for the Global Alliance on AI, we are now promoting responsible behavior with regards to AI, insisting on convergence or a consensus on watermarking AI products so that nations at large have a very balanced approach towards emerging technologies. But at the same time we have digitally delivered close to 400 million loans for businesses without collateral. We service 800 million people in our country with free food for the past two years and we've delivered 200 billion vaccine doses digitally. So there are many such examples of inclusion of digital prowess of fiscal prudency and reform that India brings to the table, irrespective of which region we are conversing with. So instead of looking at an expanded bricks in collision with a vest, I think we can use these opportunities and learn from each other because irrespective of how fractured or fragmented the world seems today, I proudly say as an Indian that we can help become the democratic glue that brings everybody together. Your Excellency, Mr. Godangwana, one of the long standing calls of bricks was a reform of the international decision-making bodies to reflect more the weight of the developing countries. To what extent has bricks been successful in that area? What progress has been made? Let me take an example of the IMF. Africa had three chairs, which means they had two representatives on the board. As we speak in October, we'll be finalizing the third chair for Africa. South Africa, Nasab Sara Africa will be represented by having three members of the board. That in itself is not a product of generosity. It's in a product of fight by people of the South and Africans themselves. They're supported by our colleagues in the developing world. So that for me is a practical example of some of the struggles of the reform. The difficult ones like reforming the security council and those other ones are going to take a while. But within the World Bank, there's much discussion and debate about the World Bank's focus moving forward. You can see the World Bank is not as long as the World Bank of the 80s. Those focus has been in structural adjustment only. The World Bank has shifted completely. We have agreed now on a new roadmap. So those discussions are also a process of this battle for the reform of these institutions. What about the alternative, the new development bank that has been set up by BRICS? The new development that has been set up by BRICS is placed on a different vision and a different approach on dealing with the developing world. And for that reason, is an attempt also to set a template as part of the battle we're doing in the bigger ones was part of setting a template that things could be done differently. Let me just ask you one more thing about BRICS' future. Do you think that it might turn into a more institutional block rather than just a group of countries coming together? I would imagine over time, I would imagine over time one of the key things we need to do is to say having agreed now being this bigger block than we're in the past, occupying a better space in the global economic setting, what should be our role? Should it be a loose organization as we are, or should we become a more of a coherent group developing common message work together? And I think that to me is the logic of what is likely to come out of this discussion. Mr. Gao, you are a global company that has businesses all over the world, and definitely the business environment has become more challenging with the sanctions that we've been talking about with the fragmentation that we see all around the world, the different blocks, now the expansion of BRICS. How do you navigate those challenges? Well, it is true that we have business activities in more than 170 countries, and we are a global company, and of course we feel firsthand all these challenges that the world is facing. But of course we share this planet, and our mission is to serve the planet, and we want to bring well-being to the population of the world to achieve this vision, to achieve this objective. We focus on the following. First, innovation. Through technological innovation, we have reduced the costs of the production, and now it's the one-tenth of a few years ago. Not only developed countries, but also developing countries, can use solar panels and PV technologies to boost their economic development. Secondly, we focus on cooperation. Over the last three years, our companies' business sales increased three times. And why, how did we do that? That is because we have deepened our cooperation with our global partners in terms of product services, and we have this very good cooperation through dialogue. And of course we pursue the common interests of everyone, and we focus on our customers, and based on that we develop our products and services. That's why our customers, our clients, really appreciate us. And of course today we face some obstacles and barriers in trade, but we do hope that in terms of technological development and in other aspects, we hope there will be a free flow of trade so that the renewable energy can have great development in the future. Your Excellency, Mr. Lmerdi, I promised to talk about the economy, so let's talk about it. What kind of opportunities and economic impact do you think does an expanded BRICS provide and opportunities for South-South cooperation? I think going back to the supply and demand charts, so that's what I always see now every week where we are the way in inflation and how do we really, that's the kind of nightmare for any minister of economy globally. I think the economic aspects of it is more trade flows, more connecting trade ports, more connecting policies on the level of creating products towards the markets of need, especially the developing nations, and I think that's something which will bring to the table of the BRICS and discussions on economic and trade policies. That's something which we are looking for and I think more trade and more aspects to really lower down the aspects of a challenge facing the interest rates and really looking at an environment in the world that differs. Now the world is gonna live in the next decade, there's gonna be a high interest rate and high inflation, that's for sure. But what the BRICS gonna bring in as well is a counter to that where we can supply more to the demand and increase that more products can be created in the BRICS nation and actually deliver on it on the time and need. Now the levels of way we look at it as well is different. In the past, the factory might get a call, says how much, I need such quantity by a certain date. Today is, I need certain quantity by a certain date with carbon neutrality as part of it. So the carbon transition as well and the climate change transition is something that the BRICS as well is something we're looking for to really engage. Hosting the Cup 28 back in November, bringing the global relations together to really have a declaration on the world to really focus on neutrality of carbon, carbon neutrality in emissions to reduce it and the BRICS can really focus on as well on that lowering the carbon aspects and really bring trade to it. Let's take a few questions from the audience. If you have a question, please can you give me a sign and we will pass on a microphone. So we have questions here. Can we pass on microphones please? First there. Thank you. Please always tell us your name and the question, who is it addressed to? Hi, my name is Sanjeev Gupta. I'm a board member at Africa Finance Corporation, which is an African multilateral. The question actually, funnily enough, is towards you, honey, rather than the speakers. And that is because I come from a world where I believe that rather than unipolarity or bipolarity, multipolarity is what we are looking for. So why are you so concerned about the political ideology of BRICS? Because I am a news person and these are the headlines every day. No, the reason I was asking is because in my own mind, sorry, minister, I was saying this. Can you deny that the expansion of BRICS happens at a time where the members of the BRICS internally have different opinions towards the West, towards the, this is a symbol of Indian men asking tough questions. No, well, that was very gender insensitive, Madam Minister. I'm trying to save a few minutes on the panel. No, but the point I'm making, ma'am, if I may, if I may make the point. I will elegantly transfer the question. No, but if I may make the point and at the cost of sounding controversial, but the question needs to be asked, that we don't ask the IMF and World Bank what the political ideology is. We say it's an economic ideology that is driving it. So so should we look at this new institution, because from the world I come from, which is Africa, where we're always looking for investors to come in, I welcome BRICS because it gives us choices. And that's what I want the world to appreciate. Thank you. Sorry, Mr. Minister. It's bad manners to interrupt you. I know. If you allow me, he has a very great heart and every time I see him in Davos, he brings a new heart. And I think that's something which I would like to add. If you allow me on the aspect of what I said, the platform we're sitting here and BRICS is not a political kind of stance. And neither we are in a Cold War environment to join or not to join. This is something we need to clear it out on this stage here and right now. And this is the aspect, it is opportunities, it is trade, it is economic drivers. It is those that what actually allows us to really look at the BRICS with the global South-South agenda of trade and economy. And I'm probably, that's something I wanted to say and I said it and I think it's important to put it back in again and this is the message we want to send to the world that the BRICS is not a political agenda. It is an economic agenda and it is not a Cold War environment we're living in. It is joining for the trade goods and trade services. We have a question here. Please can we pass on again the microphone? If you have a question, please give me a sign so that I can give you the opportunity. Okay. Thank you. My name is Awolawa from Nigeria. And my question is to my brother, the South African Minister of Finance. Well, we understand what BRICS is trying to do, but we also have the African Continental Free Trade Agreement in force now. And basically many people have talked about some skepticism about it and when you also look at the EU with Brexit, now we'll South Africa champion the AFCTA in BRICS. Thank you. Thank you. I think part of the difficult, my brother should understand, our economies have always which particularly South Africa has been heavily dependent on the West. So a de-linking for us is quite critical. In other words, changing the trade importance. Part of that is, by the way, it's an important development for our economy this year, precisely because two of these developments are taking place this year. One is the BRICS expansion. Secondly is African Free Trade Continental Trade Agreement. These are taking place all of them this month. For us, we see that as an important development for South Africa. In fact, on the 31st of this month, the president is launching from the South African perspective that free trade agreement in South Africa. So it's an important point, it's an important milestone. Our trade patterns have changed greatly with Africa. Africa now has become our second trading pattern in South Africa. That shift in trade is so important for us because it reduces that dependence. I'm sorry that there were still questions but our time is up very quickly. Okay, very quick question and quick answer please. Yes, my name is Sonia Averes from German magazine Wirtschaftswoche. I would like to know where do you see Russia's role within BRICS and I would like to know, do you see China dominating BRICS? Who is the question addressed to? To anyone who is willing to answer. We need a volunteer. No, no. There's no one dominating each other in BRICS. The institution is built on the basis that there's mutual respect, there's consensus in decision making and therefore there can be no dominance. It's unlike the Bretton Woods Institution. They were carved up in 1944, the World Bank belongs to the Americans, the IMF belongs to Europe, that is not questionable and therefore they've got to be dominant in those institutions, in the BRICS is consensus. I'm sorry that we don't have, apologies that we don't have any more time for questions from the audience but I want to wrap it up on a positive note so please give us in a nutshell very briefly each of you what do you expect on a positive note on economic cooperation from this expansion? Your Excellency. Like I said, I think the expansion is like putting a global South-South trade agenda, economic agenda, that's something which is the aspect that should be the dominance. Yes, there's a lot of challenges within the BRICS members, there's a lot of challenges internally as well with the inflation which is whatever the interest rate going up and I with developing as well, more infrastructure, there's a lot of challenges that goes in and I think we come in with an open mind to it and I think the positive note is that we're creating a global South-South agenda which has a lot of economy to it and trade and that's something we're bringing to the table. Very briefly, your Excellency. I think be it the South-South or the global South, we as an expanded BRICS need to recognize that there will be conversations that will center around our intention, given the capacities financially we bring to the table. We need to be ready for the dialogue because we have lived in a world where certain institutions have not reflected our aspirations or our civilizational or cultural heritage to understand our people, our potential better. To take forward the minister's, I think position on financial issues still now. I think when you look at a future which is inclusive and growth oriented and we are looking at supply chains that are globally resilient, I will only make one case on behalf of India that when there was a shutdown of movements of goods and services, in India a very small smegment of a PPE kit was self-generated, we had no machines, no raw material, but in March when the pandemic hit us, from zero companies in May, we went up to 1,100 companies. By June we were the second largest exporters in the world and we've shown what we can do as a part of the global supply chain, not hold our supply chain hostage for geopolitical reasons, not subjugate our supply chains for any other political or economic interests. So I think we are the one partner. The BRICS expanded leak and count on. Very briefly, your Excellency. Yeah, I'm saying part of the important thing we should take into account is that not everything happened at an institutional level. What this creates is that we're able to deal with India on a different basis because we now both are members of BRICS, same with China. Now we're facing a number of electricity challenges in South Africa. We're talking to both countries, working with both countries in the resolution of the problem, not with the whole BRICS as an institution, but it does create an environment where your BRICS member now looks at you with a different eye, with a BRICS eye. So that also has been important. Bilateral cooperation can be better. Mr. Gao, final comment. The BRICS system should be seen as one, paving the way for better economic cooperation, South-South cooperation, and it's a big spur to South-South trade, and economic development achieved between BRICS countries can benefit the whole world. Now, we are planning to invest five billion US dollars in the UAE to set up one of the world's largest production facilities for photovoltaic, which will be able to service not only the Middle East region, but also become a major part of the world's supply chain for solar. Your excellencies, Mr. Gao, thank you very much for being here with us today. I hope you enjoyed the conversation. Thank you.