 Good day my lovely listeners. You are listening to the 40 Autie podcast tune in every week to explore inspiring stories and Insightful information that dive head-first into the world of autism and mental health With all those tantalizing tongue twisters out of the way. Let's get into the show Hello everybody, welcome back to the 40 Autie podcast How are you guys doing? It's uh, it's been a stressful day at work for me. I had a lot on so it's nice to come come here and chat to you guys as well Today we are talking about Social aspes and extroverted Activities sounds like you've sort of made that up to be some kind of rhyming thing But really it's not it just happens to be like that not that you care, but it's okay right so today, I've got a very special guest as always and It is Lauren from the Aspian L Instagram page. Say hi Lauren Hi, thanks for having me No worries. How are you doing today? I'm doing pretty good. It's been a low key day. I'm excited to be here Excited to talk about some some autism do a bit of monologuing back and forth monologuing Always always love talking about autism Well, we have that in common and So do you want to like introduce everybody a little bit into who you are and what you do on the light Instagram? What you do for work? You kind of diagnosis and stuff Yeah, of course. So Yeah, so I'm Lauren Melissa. I also go by aspian L and in real life outside of the Internet social media world. I am a librarian I am based out of New York City And I was diagnosed with autism five years ago when I was 23 years old so I was a late diagnosis and Since then I've just kind of really Explored autism spectrum disorder asperger syndrome learned more about myself and I've just really been Excited to share with people my experiences and where I've come from and where I'm going So it's great to be connected to the autism community now And where about see you are you based like in the world? I'm based in New York City in the United States obviously and I I'm not from here though originally. I'm from California the other side of the country Ah, Cali Very nice So it is the much like contrast between New York and California Definitely a contrast, especially in weather because I'm from southern California But I enjoy both places. They have a lot to offer and it's nice to be in New York City versus San Diego Both are great There's a lot of different kinds of people a lot of diversity and a lot to get involved in so I enjoy it here Cool. And are you happy to be in in the big city? Because I know that I I personally I like my little small towns. That's my my safe space um, I I lived in Manchester for about three years and I got by but it was a little bit too busy and noisy and too many people Do you find that living in the city is all right for you? So when I first told people that I was moving to New York City They were astonished. They they said how how are you going to make it there with all the sensory stimulation? Fortunately, I actually live in a more residential area in New York City So my neighborhood where I live is pretty quiet And I also work outside of the city in a quieter area So whenever I go into that big heart of Manhattan or those big High crowded areas. It's always an intentional choice So you're sort of ready to ready to face it Exactly That's good. I I like that kind of thing. I mean The the place that I live so I live in like North Yorkshire in the UK And North Yorkshire is pretty quiet. It's more of like It's not it's like the opposite side of the country to London so it's It's good like the town's quite It's not busy, but it's busy enough for it to be Something that I think about when I go out But I live, you know, like 20 25 minutes from the town center and Where I live, it's it's quiet, you know, I live opposite a field and it's it's quite nice And if I want to go do do stuff that's a bit more, you know outgoing and all that then I can sort of walk into the center in about 20 minutes, which is nice Uh, so yeah, you said that you Were diagnosed when you were 23. How was that? How was that experience for you? Oh, well being diagnosed was honestly the best thing that ever happened to me because it's not like I wasn't autistic before I was diagnosed. I just didn't know what was going on And prior to that I'd been diagnosed with a multiplicity of things migraines, fibromyalgia Just I could go on and on and on And I really struggled with social interactions and with keeping friends And I just had no idea why I would get super angry at times Which we now know is melting down or why I would burn out And so finally I had this Very eye-opening workplace conflict with a colleague Where I thought that I had been being very supportive and helpful to her And she completely thought I was a snob Stuck up trying to control her like every negative adjective you could pull out and I I had had that experience before And I was kind of getting tired of it because I was like, how can I not be nice to people? Like I don't understand how can I build friendships and relationships if when I'm trying my hardest everybody thinks that I am hurting them and so I had looked up Asperger's syndrome before Because I had always been looking up multiple diagnoses in high school trying to figure out what was going on when I was struggling back then as well Every time I took a screener I would come up as not autistic non Asperger's But then after that workplace conflict, I I just got this idea. What if I look up Asperger's syndrome in women? And I came across Rudy Simone's traits and symptoms of Asperger's in females and women And it was like I read a description of myself And from that moment forward I started doing more research reading all the books I could find about Aspe and women and Then I sought a formal diagnosis About three fourths of the way through that the psychiatrist was like We're going to keep doing the evaluation, but I just want you to know that you are on the spectrum So it was a it was a great thing. I I cried she cried for me It was it was such a relief and to know that there was an answer and Definitely Yeah, it was great. It must have been quite sort of taxing on you both like monetary wise and and energy and Motivation wise to have to go like going to screenings and Being sort of turned away when you know that there is Something there that they're not seeing I I think it's a lot easier for A lot easier for girls to sort of slip under the radar When it comes to assessments and and stuff like that, especially like in adulthood You know, like you you tend to have a lot more of like those um Sounds bad when I'm saying it but like see superficial non-autistic traits if that makes sense So like you very good at like social mimicry and copying facial expressions and stuff whereas I feel like For the most of the autistic guys that I've met that's it doesn't really happen Yes, yes the masking of our traits and things like that It's pretty common and I think a big part of it has to do with The fact that just in childhood in general girls are given more directives than boys and told how to behave I think there's like studies on just how many more directives girls receive than boys And so we learn very early on to Act a certain way be a certain way pretend to be something But it's really psychologically damaging for autistic girls and all girls to be honest But autistic girls very much so because we just completely deny who we are about it must it must be It must be quite a relief because I remember when I got Uh diagnosed and I was 10 years old and I found that relief but 23 that's I can't I can't even comprehend how that would feel because it's you know, obviously like I'm 22 It's like next year I would be diagnosed and that's when I would know that Just seems absolutely crazy to me Yeah, I mean never too late, right? Definitely and I know a lot of you know people public figures in the news and stuff have have Got late diagnoses and stuff. There's this lady called uh louise croons That I did a little BBC video with and she She got diagnosed I think in her late 30s Which is Mad It's crazy. It's insane like I can't even comprehend what that would be like, but it is I suppose The main thing is is that you know now and once once you know you sort of you can look at your past and stuff and you can sort of pick stuff out and analyze it and Get over things that troubled you when you were younger. Would you say that that's something that you did Most definitely after my diagnosis it made so much of my childhood and adolescence Makes sense in ways that had never made sense before um just from small things to me Lining up and creating these really strange like organized Barbie doll worlds, but never playing with them um to to um You know going to school one day and finding out that all of my friends no longer liked me and I had no idea why Yeah, I empathize with that a lot Yes, it's tough I think middle school years and high school years were some of the toughest of my life college too, but Middle school when everybody is already awkward and trying to figure out how to be a teen I just I don't I wasn't ready for it and I made so many Quote-unquote social mistakes, which was which were just me being myself But my peers They caught on to that very quickly and I was rejected pretty fast. I would say but On the flip side at least I did well in school. So I had some positive memories We've always got those um High high-grade figures, you know that uh a point increase in the IQ and all that above average intelligence Not saying that that's taken away from your achievements Not saying that no Okay, cool So let's talk a little bit about your work on instagram because I want to know why You've chosen to to do this kind of thing because I know a lot of people who I've I've talked to when Some of my friends that watch my youtube videos and stuff. They they're quite astonished that someone would want People to know about their life Like that. So I just want to know what you know what drives you to do it and what you hope to do with it in the future That kind of begins with my diagnosis when I was diagnosed. I was told that my symptoms were Pretty severe. My traits were very intense and a lot of areas And the psychiatrist was really shocked because she wanted to kind of know how I had developed So many coping skills without support given the severity of a lot of my experiences and That kind of stuck with me and I thought a lot about how do I know to do this or how did I figure out to do that? When I was upset or when I was in pain or or when I was overstimulated and I I didn't know any autistic people In real life at the time. So I wanted to connect with autistic people But I also wanted to talk to them and share with them Just the things I did in daily life just in case it could help someone And so I actually opened up my instagram just with that in mind. I was I just thought what if I could help someone What if what if they don't realize you could Just do stand on one leg while brushing your teeth And that would make your hip strength stronger and alleviate ellers danlos syndrome Like what if they didn't know that and if I told them that And it completely changed their lives, you know random things like that And so I started my instagram and I started making aspy tips Which I now call audit tips We were just little ideas of things that I did throughout the day And it really developed and grew Um, I would get messages from people asking me for tips on certain things And I realized wow, I could I could help support people based on their needs more than just what I am already doing because I I'm kind of a verbal processor And it's pretty easy for me To put into words Thoughts and ideas so I don't think that it's necessarily that I'm saying things that other Autistic people Aren't doing already. I think it's that I just have this knack for writing it out And so I really enjoy sharing these tips Some of them by request some of them by things that I live through in my every day And I've kind of feel like it's evolved into an advice column My mission is really just to bring Autistic people to support each other giving autistic people advice for how to navigate everyday life But that advice is from autistic people Instead of having neuro neurotypical people tell us how to exist So that's kind of my mission at this point So I'll be the um understanding person that knows what it's like rather than sort of like a medical professional Telling you about all the ways that you can cope with symptoms quotation marks Yes Yeah, I get that So am I right in thinking that so your drive was that you are helping people and that makes you happy Yes, I'm I'm a helper by nature. I think so I That was the drive. I just wanted to reach out to and help people And your your mission is By by your standards Sort of not complete, but you've reached what you want to do with it Or is there something beyond that that you'd want to Do with this kind of stuff Right now I'm at a pretty comfortable rhythm and how the audit tips are Crafted and given out, but I do want to grow things To a bigger level. I would really really like to go to colleges someday and speak with college students and disability centers to give them motivation and To just be someone that they can see maybe a mirror through I would love to speak with I want us to continue to speak with other autistic people I I have a lot of people who asked me if I want to make my mission my goal To teach neurotypical people about autism And while I think that that's something that naturally happens through my platform My goal is always to just continue to reach other autistic people. That is my main goal and I think I feel like already from you know looking at the The posts that you make and that they're all very Very much, you know, just scripted and detailed and it looks like you put a lot of time into it Um a lot of effort into it And it's it's really it is really great to see that kind of thing and It's it's nice nice to hear that you are you know people are messaging you and you're applying and you're giving them personal advice because that is to a lot of people It may seem, you know You know, for example, if I when I get messages and people And ask me things it's like they don't expect you to reply to them Because you're like, oh, you just uh, you know, I like instagram info and so but Yeah, it's I can imagine Sometimes I think about it and I think about oh, imagine if I Messaged someone who was doing something like this when I was younger and asked for tips or have I just got into the The autism I was going to say autism realm, but that sounds a bit pretentious But uh, yeah, it must it must be really great for them and it's I'm really glad that you you are helping them in that way It's a really good good thing to do So let's um, let's get into the the meat of it So we we actually talked a little bit quite a lot about like schools and past experiences already and um Do you want to give give us some like examples of like the main struggles that you had at school? um in terms of like friendships social skills Going out and doing social activities and all that Definitely so ironically in school. I always thought that I was an extrovert mainly because my sister and brother Are extreme introverts and very shy And so because I like to help people I would always pretend to be extroverted to try to Get especially my sister into friend groups and invited to things And that was a lot of masking As a result though since I was trying to be extroverted when I really wasn't I would often just make a fool of myself. I would say things Just to get a rise out of people kind of you know class clown a little bit um, but I would also say a lot of an I would say a lot of inappropriate things and I would upset people who were my friends so much that they would stop being my friends and I didn't know how to fix it because I didn't know how to be myself and I would also Get so burnt out from pretending to be something I wasn't all day at school That I would come home and have a meltdown almost every single day Um, let's start crying and screaming So there was a lot of emotion involved for me in high school, especially around that By the time I reached college undergrad I had figured out that I was really an introvert and my family well took them ages to believe it Are finally really have finally realized that too And so I stopped trying to push myself to be this class clown this funny person But I still wanted to you know have friends and belong to a social circle And I continued though to make social mistakes say the things that other people were thinking but not saying I just didn't realize that they were thinking it and not saying it I thought I was the only one who could see things So I would be like well, I have to say these things out loud and put hurt people I'll give you one example that that might be A little funny So it was in my first semester it was in my first semester of college and We had taken a midterm exam And I had done very well on it. This isn't this isn't a story about me doing well in school but it's involved I had done very well on the exam and I came back like I think I got like a 97 or something like that. So I came back to class the next day and my professor says So we did we didn't do so well in the midterm everyone and you know, I'm sitting there like oh, but I did well, you know thinking to myself How could other people not have done as well as me just complete and totally Stuck inside my my own self in my brain and kind of thinking everyone experienced what I experienced And he said so I was I was thinking about you know Waiting the grade and giving everyone an additional 10 points To kind of you know, even out the field. What do you all think of that? So I took his question literally What do you think of that and I thought oh, well, I'll share what I think about that So I raised my hand and I said I think that it might be a little unfair for those of us who did well on the exam Yeah, I would say just about everyone in that class Decided that I would never be their friend after that Because I tried to ruin their grades getting weighted But I just didn't realize like I actually had no idea that anybody was mad at me after that I didn't realize that I was completely clueless So that's an example of speaking your minds Like it's it's a good point And it is so it takes away from the effort that you put into your work But maybe maybe not talk about it in front of class And now I look back and I think I would honestly I want all of their grades to be weighted like I look back I just was so inexperienced and I have to usually experience something to have empathy towards it And yeah, I feel like like at least immediate empathy without me focusing and focusing and focusing And now I look back and I see of course everybody's grazing to be weighted I've been glad many times in my life when my grade has been weighted. I just couldn't see it and It definitely impaired a lot of my socializing during that time I bet but thank you for sharing that I um, I definitely have a lot of experiences that are similar to that where I'm sort of You so I get you sort of stay in your own head For most of the time like especially at school because it's quite a stressful environment. So you You always sort of stay in your own line and you don't really Think about much at at the time And it usually takes me about A day or two just to You know if I've done something wrong and I can see that I've done something wrong. I need to like go and like monologue on my own do some writing and um Think it over and then I can I I usually come back with a lot of empathy for it But it's I think there is like a delay You kind of have to use your logical brain to figure it out And try and think of it from other people's it's like an active process You need it needs to have intention behind it for you to understand it I do agree with that. I think many times I just have to sit and really put myself in their shoes and then it's like you said I have Almost at that point like too much empathy um, but in the moment It can it can just take me a second to grasp it Yeah Well, it's nice that I've never I've never actually heard anybody anybody on the spectrum Uh talk about this before Um, which is nice because I I feel the same way as well and it's Sometimes it can be a bit hard It's it's hard and it's you you go away from it and you're thinking what did I do wrong? and sure from from an objective standpoint sure, but Socializing and people there's a lot to do with Use it using emotions as well as what's happened in logic And sometimes it takes a bit of time to like integrate it together Yeah completely In terms of like looking back What sort of improvements? I know it might I mean obviously like I'm guessing that you made a lot of improvements um, just from You know our conversation so far and just from like looking at your social media and stuff But what like specific things do you think really helped? You develop your social skills better? I think one of the first things that I started to do that has really helped me Is to stop mimicking people I Used to say to myself I can be anything anybody wants and I thought that it was a positive trait But it was really impairing my ability to make real connections with people to make friends because there's only so long that you can pretend to be something that you're not and I thought it was honestly something that everybody did to make friends But now I don't do that. I tried to be my authentic self Within reason. I mean, I'm not there's certain things I'm just not going to do in certain circles But that has more to do with navigating daily life and staying safe But I think one of the first things that I started to do is to take off that mask To always be my authentic self as much as possible And then I end up making friends with people who like me for me Yeah, and the things that you have in common and people people that share like your values and stuff He's nice I do I do sort of feel like I do generally have a certain mask When I meet new people. So I I always because especially if people don't really understand autism or they have no experience talking or interacting with an autistic person um, then I'm likely to No, sort of up my little neurotypical cues Just to sort of ease them into it Usually that's usually what I do But once they get to know me then they realize. Oh, yeah, this guy is yeah In a good way, of course wouldn't have it any other way And I feel like the older I get, you know, the more people are actually accepting of Oh, there's that quirky person And they kind of feel like this is the fun quirky person that like totally makes things a little this conversation different or This atmosphere More interesting because we're so used to the same thing day by day by day. So when you throw some quirkiness in there Everybody has a little bit of fun um but to think back to your original question of changes that I've made and In order to experience I guess a better Life for myself. I think the second thing that I changed that really made a huge difference was I started to become vastly more aware of my sensory State and when I'm overstimulated and when I'm not So I would I'm just more aware of walking into a space and and realizing That light is too garish and making a sound. I cannot sit here. I cannot work here And just being aware of those things in my day to day Being aware of sounds that are hurting my head Being aware of when conversations are setting me off and being able to exit that situation As quickly as possible. It has done wonders for me in terms of being able to just get through a regular 24 hours And start the day and end the day on a good foot it's it's nice to hear that You are making like improvements like that because I think that's one of the things that I It's one of the last things that I sort of tried to fix focus on and try and fix I always I always thought yeah, I know I am a bit sensory overloaded and all that And it does affect me, but I never quite realized to the extent that I that it did affect me until I started trying things to try and help or giving myself some quiet time in like social events and stuff You know because I sort of when I went when I'd go to like some social event like a party or I go out of some friends or something Then I would always stick around to the end of it and then either the same night when I get home or the day after I would just I would be completely drained and very in a very sort of sensitive emotional state and it's it was really hard to cope with and I I only you know really recently so I've realized that sensory aspects and being around people and all of that is quite important even just like going to the library and um A library uni and and just sitting there a light that's a little bit too bright I'm trying not to rhyme I did it just comes out Sitting under a light that's a little bit too Nice little lyric for anybody any DJs out there want to make a little mix Um What am I talking about? Okay, right so the top the topic of this podcast is As I've said social stuff extroverted things What do we mean by extroverted activities What do you what do you consider to be an extroverted activity? I consider any time when I'm not by myself or with my best friend To be an extroverted activity to be honest so Any time I'm meeting up with a friend for coffee Perhaps I'm going to a concert Perhaps I'm going to a convention Just getting dinner with friends all of those things I consider to be extroverted activities Anything that's our drangy social battery to an extent Yes, so anything that involves me giving of myself In order to enjoy time spent with others is an extroverted activity That's a good definition. I like that when when I think of Extroverted activities those those things sort of appear in my mind as well but there's also things that are Things that I would consider to be Extremely social extroverted behavior like Going to a concert or Going to a nightclub or Going traveling for like a weekend or something like that something that's either long term relatively long term or very intense Those those type of things spring to my mind and as well but um Do you have any any experience with those types of environments? Oh, yes I really I really enjoy a lot of extroverted activities because I I have special interests in things that involve music and fashion And so in order really for fashion and music to be like fully experienced it often includes extroversion I'm fortunate to that if it involves my special interest When it's an extroverted activity, it's a little bit less draining than when it doesn't involve my special interest So for example, if I'm going to go out To dinner with friends If I go to a restaurant that I know plays my favorite music I'll enjoy myself a lot more than if I went to a restaurant that played music. I didn't know So there are just ways of kind of navigating extroversion by using my special interests to To get me through it to get me to have more fun and ease up I really enjoy going to certain kinds of like I guess Anime Japanese pop culture conventions is what people would call them Well, like um comic-con Not the same thing actually So Comic-con is more like the marvel doctor who That side of the world Japanese pop culture conventions have more to do with like anime manga Japanese video games and music And I'm obsessed with a lot of Japanese music So I love to go to these conventions and they last for like four days And just hang out in groups of large amounts of people and listen to music and Dancing there's usually raves and just like have a great time It's very very extroverted But because it involves my special interest I can navigate it That isn't to say that I'm not going to be completely burned out afterwards. So Just figuring out how to work through all that I suppose Um having something related to your special interest gives you a lot to talk about and a bit more of a Bit more of like a a template or a frame framework to work within because if you know that you go into somewhere where People like similar stuff to you then it's a bit easier to know What to talk about and they're sort of jargon to use and what kind of Turn to strike because I very much just gonna say I I very much like like Japanese culture and stuff I was I was massively into it when I was younger I went I went for like a school trip to japan one time cool and Yeah, but we were outside quite a lot. I mean we're doing a lot of stuff in the city and Because it was something that I was interested in You know looking at it now You know, it was particularly stressful and I think if I was to go to london Which has nothing to do with anything that I like Then I don't think I'd be able to cope as well. But because it was japan It was cool japan, you know the quirky japan. I was like, yes I like it a lot. Yeah, it sort of helped a little bit I suppose But yeah, that's cool. Have you ever been to japan? I've not and it's it's kind of ridiculous because I've been in south korea for like Two or three months, but I never made it to japan What was south korea like? Oh, it was wonderful There was definitely a lot of music playing from storefronts in the streets but It was great and I had a nice time there. I feel like I could do an entire Travel vlog about that. So let's just say if you're interested in visiting south korea go for it That sounds cool. I would like to see that. So if you ever if you ever fancy making a Yeah, south korean blog. I would definitely be up for watching those So in in terms of like Extraverted things I personally like in in terms of like going out and and parties and things like that. I've always I found that I always Get on best. I always have a much more of a good time if I I'm either familiar with the place or the people So I am very happy to go go out to this Uh club in manchester called satans hollow That play like heavy metal and alternative music. Nice Because I know that it's music that I like And I can always go with my mate who likes that kind of music as well And I also know that it's not incredibly busy because it's quite a relatively small place and Yeah, I find that you know, sort of even going to somewhere that Even even if somewhere else did play like heavy metal and music and stuff It wouldn't be the same because I've been to this club so many times And I'm I'm used to it. I don't know exactly what to expect. I know what Smells like. I know what the the Lights are like. I know what the environment's like And it always makes it it makes it more of a good night out for me Um as opposed to going to some, you know bog standard like house club night or something Which um, I find not particularly enjoyable Yes, I that's how I go on. Oh, no, no I mean, I was just gonna say I completely relate Do you have you um Experienced a lot of nightlife in your uni uni days I'm just saying I didn't go out that much like I'm not saying that I was a massive session or anything. I was I probably went out about five or six times In my second year, which is not a lot Yeah, have you have you had an experience with that? Yeah, so actually during my undergrad I did go out a lot But it was odd was my school had a party schedule, which is very strange But on Wednesday, there was part and on On thursdays, there was this party and on fridays. It was like it was very scheduled out It was mapped out and they had like themed parties that you would be expecting every month And so you could really prepare you knew the location of it Um, you could really prepare for it. So I think that actually considered things Yeah Oh, they had some great ones Halloween events Oh, yes, there was a trigger drink. I remember that one but uh So I did enjoy that a lot in college, um And I agree that today even now I like to go out You know, I like to go get a drink with friends or go out for dinner And I love it when I can go to a place that I already know that I'm already familiar with I can socialize with A ton of people at one time if I'm in a familiar spot And if I am going to a new spot, I always do my research I look up the menu and pick what I'm going to eat beforehand I look at photos on, you know, google maps of exactly what it looks like outside and inside I look up how busy it's going to be at the time that I go So I can walk in armed with as much information as possible That way When the outliers occur, I'm not my head's not already reeling. I can handle it better I think like the the other Sort of side side to it, you know side to the familiar environment is familiar people as well But I I'm not the type of person that would be able to just Go out With someone that I don't know I did do it when I was in first year I actually said like in the undergrad and stuff in first year um But that was just because I didn't know anybody And if if I'm going to someone new If I'm going to someone new or some somewhere that I don't particularly have an interest in I always need to have A a good friend like a very close friend to sort of anchor me a little bit Or just give me some sort of support or you know, if I if I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed Someone that I can go outside with and just chat with and cool off I think I think having familiar people around you can Sometimes help with new unfamiliar environments But I was you know, you know vice versa Like you can I could probably make more friends if I went to Satan's Hollow than if I went to a house rave With you know some people that I knew it's obviously like In in terms of restaurants and pubs and more sort of Tane nights then I'm pretty good with that stuff I very much like Going to places that I know again I'll always say, you know, if my friends were like, oh, you want to go out and and get a meal somewhere I always say, yeah, let's go to this exact same place that 10 times Yes, that sounds good. And I'll buy the same exact thing And eat it and I'll get the same drink and I'll drink it in the same order that I have every single time I go Um, it's gonna be perfect. This is gonna be a perfect time Yeah, because it's like, I know I enjoy this so we're gonna do it Um, but yeah, I suppose now and again I do get a bit of a um Instinctual drive to do something new And although it's not as often as me wanting to stick to my little Weird ritual It's uh Yeah, I can still do it It's just I need to sort of plan I need to make sure that I have rest the day before and I'm not talking to too many people the day before and stuff and Yes, I like to do extrovert things I can really relate to needing to look at your schedule and kind of mapping out how I can emotionally handle these extroverted things. So One example of which is if I go to a convention, I always take off work the next day So that way I can just have a full day of recharging. It's just not possible for me to do a convention and go to work the next day I mean, and I'm I don't mean that in like a lighthearted sense. Like, oh, I'll be so burnout. It'll be so hard I've literally don't think I could function at work. Then like I would not be able to perform my duties um, I think also there's this great tool of just like looking at your schedule and seeing how many extroverted activities you have in a row and then looking at the following day and kind of marking that on your calendar as a potential day for a meltdown or potential day for high levels of over stimulation Just so that way it's on your calendar. Look out for this day. Be prepared this day. I actually learned that from another asper girl Her name is alice. She's the good bunny club But as I want to give her a little bit of credit for that that little tip, but it was a very helpful good bunny club The good bunny club. She's a bunny. Is that the That's her Instagram stuff Well, she's an artist. She does have an Instagram, but she does a lot of art that revolves around kind of being this neurodivergent person in a neuro-typical world Hmm Very interesting. That sounds good. I would definitely give them a follow as well And I couldn't do anybody else who's listening to um, drop them a cheeky follow too and see what it's about Uh So I I I do think that that's a really important thing and I think it is always good to just even even if you don't want to schedule it. Schedule it. Just have an awareness of when you know, how much you're doing and and look sort of look back into your past and Realize times that you have sort of had a little bit of a meltdown or you've been so drained that you just can't do anything and try and think of things that led up to that and it's usually There usually are things that lead up to that And that's for me it was just both going to work and Having social events as well around that and not giving me myself enough time to chill out and relax on my own and Do a bit of writing and you know, just mull about like a lazy boy Um, it's good. It's it's healthy And I do think there is kind of this phenomenon. I mean a lot of autistic people we We like to do the same thing over and over again. And so if we get into a rhythm of overextending ourselves and doing extroverted activities over and over and over again We might we might try to do that every single day until we burn out like you have to almost break it Sort of a routine Yeah So I get you get in routine that you don't know what you're doing and that you're always meeting up with people every day Yes, that's happened to me before Yeah, it's horrible isn't it because it's like How do I cope? How do I cope with this? But I can't stop doing it because I feel compelled to because it's part of my routine so it's um I became a very large So a party extroverted outgoing person for about a month or two after after uni Just stayed in stayed in Manchester and just Oh, yeah, I didn't give myself enough break and when I wasn't when I was doing things that were introverted and sort of on my own I felt weird because usually it's relaxing and it's nice, but I was like, I don't usually do this I need to I need to go and do something with people and talk to people But it also stresses me out. So how am I supposed to do this? I don't It's not a good place to get yourself into for anybody listening Not a good idea I'm glad that you share that experience as well Oh, it's it seems like the more that I do these podcasts the more that I realize that You know, people do have similar experiences and it's it's nice to hear. It's good to hear Same to you so there there is sort of a um stereotype around autism Being the quiet person there trying to avoid social situations all the time the Not being able to be social not doing anything that's Too out of the way or too extroverted um What why is it that we sort of tilt towards this in the eyes of other people but also just in general I I think it has to do with The neurotypical people more than it has to do with autistic people to be honest I think it has to do with the fact that autistic people don't feel welcome that um We've been penalized for social mistakes that we've made and so when you already have The situation where socializing is draining It's taking out, you know, the introverted the introverted problem I guess but I don't really think it's too much of a problem But where you're giving of yourself and then the end result of that Is to be told that you did it wrong You got pushed away more. Yeah, why? Why would a person Willingly continue trying to give of themselves just because other people tell them well, you should do that You should go out and make friends. You should go out and try new things when in their experience It's something that takes away from From feeling good inside and from feeling good outside So I think that contributes to it a lot and The more that an autistic person can find a safe space to be themselves in I think you'd we'd find more autistic people socializing um whenever Like for example at conventions, there's such they're often very inviting places for the the quirky ones and I've actually gone to autism panels at conventions Which was fabulous very cool They were great um It was just an environment where people could share and ask questions and talk about Their experiences being autistic and this the moderator was excellent because they knew That a lot of autistic people weren't going to just raise their hand and be like hi everyone I have a question So she gave out raffle tickets anytime you raise your hand to ask a question You've got a raffle ticket for this anime that was in a lot of people's special interest present It wasn't actually I don't really watch anime, but it was I was just thinking that's a very clever good job So there'd be a lot of talking and it was great. That's awesome So yeah, I I do I do definitely think that there is a little bit of a stereotype and I I agree like wholeheartedly that If if we were more integrated and more accept accepted at A young age and also, you know going through teenage hood, which is very important then You know from two sides as well from one because we do a lot of work to try and fit in whereas Neotypical people Don't do a lot of work to Help us fit in No, no, I don't think it's in in the case most cases. I don't think it's out of spite I just don't think that they understand and they have the a bit Not not willfully ignorant I think to some extent A lot of the problems that we have socially Are revolve revolve around our experience at school Around neurotypical people and it can be really heart breaking and soul destroying And it can lead to a lot of mental health difficulties, you know of all the bullying and isolation and alienation And that can that can follow you for the rest of your life and some people don't get out of that and they don't sort of go through changes because they just feel so disheartened and They have such negative experiences around people that they just they find it really difficult and I do I do think in general That there is some Neurological biological Influence that makes us a little bit more closed off but I think if More was done about that at a young age It wouldn't be as much of a carrying on thing. We wouldn't be so in our heads and introverted When we're older I think that there are definitely like Factors from both sides, but I think If if we were to tackle the social issue and It would make a lot of difference Or at least it just give people the option to socialize if they want to which is the most important thing I think Yeah, having just having The opportunity to be yourself and to talk with people I think is an amazing gift that many neurotypical people might take for granted Yeah, I'm autistic friends are awesome not trying to do my own trumpet, but You know, they'll they'll tell you tell you how how it is They'll they'll tell you what they you mean to them in verbal language rather than assumed language Or body language or whatever strange ways you guys communicate with It's not really it's not really a good a good standpoint state. I'm sorry about that guys Um But um I do think that Autistic people make really good friends. They're very from my experience And it is a bit of a general statement as with anything that we talk about but Yeah, some of the best people that I know are autistic and They they just they want the opportunity to Go to things but not necessarily feel obliged to go to things and for people to Understand that sometimes they won't go to something because they're too overwhelmed or they're too socially drained And not feel like that's going to impact the other person's opinion of them Make them feel like they're not putting as much into their friendship or something Up the opportunity. It's a great. It's a great thing and understanding having a bit of compassion and Empathy can go a long way It's better if you're a narrative on you listening to this, right? What what specific things do you find hard about? extroverted things Do you have any specific coping mechanisms? that you use So a difficult thing for me is to navigate a conversation with multiple people talking at the same time That's very hard, especially than to if there is background conversation When there's conversations going on in the background I tend to hear them louder than the conversation in the foreground And then if you add music on to that, uh, that's going to trump everything A lot of my friends know me as the person who will suddenly be like, I love this song and everyone's They're like, what are you talking about? Because nobody can hear the music but I know we're talking to people Exactly So that's a big one and it will drain me very quickly So I I really do just like say hey guys, I'm gonna go To the bathroom or hey, I need a break. I'll be right back to the toilet Yeah, the haven But I I sometimes get sad because sometimes I hear that the bathroom has like a place to go is like a sad thing Like I'm hiding in the bathroom, but to me. I'm like, I'm not hiding in the bathroom I am enjoying this bathroom. Like this is like nice. Like I just get to be here Breathe maybe play a little game on my phone. Like this is me time And then and then I can go back and try again, but I've become pretty unapologetic about that About just walking away Um, and I think well, there's a whole group of them Are they really going to be offended because one person walked away for 10 minutes? No, like they can get over it. So that's a big thing That I do when I'm faced with a situation like that um, and I think another thing that I have to really work with when I'm in an extroverted activity Is paying attention to lighting and I'm not talking about fluorescent lighting like I'm talking about flashing lights and And things like that. So I'm more of a sensory seeker Than sensory avoidant. Although I do have sensory things that I have to avoid in order to be my best self, but I love flashing lights a lot And I won't even notice that I'm overstimulated until it's a little bit too late So when I'm in situations like that I intentionally Stop I have to tell myself to stop looking at the flashing light to close my eyes Um to walk outside for a moment and just take those timed breaks I think a lot of it does have to do with taking breaks in the end of the day If I'm going to be extroverted, I'm not going to be extroverted if I'm going to do an extroverted activity I have to honor myself and not deny who I am And then I'll just have a better time at the end. I think um In terms of like flashing lights, I completely get where you come from but I I find them absolutely captivating So I went to this event only recently just last week I went to see this band called caravan palace, which is like an electroswing band Do you know do you know anything about electroswing? I know it's a bit niche I don't know that phrase But I bet you if you played the kind of music for me, I'd be like, oh, yeah I didn't know this was called electroswing because I do like a lot of electronic music A good song to listen to if you want to get into electroswing is Lone Digger Lone Digger by caravan palace. It's a good one Okay, very popular one Have to check it out. What is the saying? Yeah flashing lights absolutely love them it's um, I found that I'm I'm more sensory avoidant when it comes to anything sensory that is prolonged So if it's a very bright light that's staying on Then I can't cope with it. But if it's a bright light that's moving about a bright light that's flashing on and off I like it more And it's it's I found that to be the case in a lot of A lot of things so short bursts of interaction short bursts of touch any anything like that anything that Is sensory I like strong bursts of something and then Nothing rather than constant medium or low level amount of sensory stimulation I don't know why I I think I very much like being Over stimulated, but I don't want to be over stimulated all the time. If you know what I mean Yeah, definitely Do you have like anything that you use at home? like in terms of like lights or anything or Sensory things that you use just to get that that's sensory seeking stuff I definitely like to play loud music To give me like that burst um I stem dance a lot. So just like put on a song or two and just bam go at it and then I'm like, okay, that was good Yeah, just sit down You would love a lecture I swing then So very much a dancy type of music So yeah coping mechanisms. I think the main thing for me as as is for you taking breaks giving yourself a break Recognizing that you need to you know, you need some time alone just to just to recharge when you're Doing something like that because the more the more intense it is and the more active it is the harder it is um on your Your brain and on your mental capacity and it you don't want to let it tip over I think and Yeah toilet. It's always a safe haven for autistics from my experience I've I've gathered that every you know every single person that's come onto my podcast has always said that they cope with things by finding a bathroom It's it's just like it's nice, isn't it? It's just like a little cozy place and um You can lock yourself in and it's it's very small and You can put your headphones on and nobody know that you've got your headphones on and you can just kind of sit there and Chill out and not have any social engagement. It's very nice For me the best place to go in any sort of social occasion Maybe not clubs like some clubs because some of those a bit yeah monk Yeah, not great But then if that's not available outside somewhere in a corner Usually a good spot So what are the benefits of being more extroverted because I know we're talking a lot about how To do it and how to cope with it, but Why do we need to do it or why do we why should we try to do at least some? I think it's good to have connections with other people and Not to feel isolated all the time So I think being extroverted gives us human connection that many many people crave I think also it gives us opportunity to Enjoy the things that we like in new ways And to just enrich our life experiences. Maybe that sounds like a lot but I think that going out and trying something new that's related to something that we love Just expands our love for the things that we have so I think connection and enrichment are some of the greatest things about being extroverted Or doing extroverted things. I think networking is also really important. It can get you far and you can get job opportunities Do better at your job by making those connections And also learn new things by meeting new people So there are there are so many benefits to engaging with others We just have to set ourselves up for success in order to Get those benefits and I think you know for a lot of autistic people, I think We do in general try to do these things, but I think for for some people it can be Extremely daunting and some people just really don't know where to start Like how do you start doing that? It's like you can't just show up at an event I'm not know anyone because you won't be able to cope with it Because it's unfamiliar and there's unfamiliar people and some people just can't Get over that and it's too anxiety-provoking How how do you get around that? So definitely I I trust my best friend and I love to try new things with her because She really helps me walk through those initial extremely awkward moments of starting an extroverted activity my first convention I went to I went with her and For the first hour we honestly just Walked to each place on the map of the convention or I just sat and stared for an hour And she sat with me if I'd been alone I would have been terrified But because she was there I knew that if something went wrong It would be okay in the end So I I think having that safe person Yeah So helpful I think Yeah, I have having having sort of like a person as as an anchor Or a person to be around you so that you don't feel um Isolated or or or weird or paranoid It's quite it's quite good. It's quite a good thing to have um I think also a good thing to sort of stress some an important thing is that Events like social events no matter where you start from are always going to be somewhat stressful and you have to It's the the process of doing those things is is less about. Oh, it's going to feel easier It's more about oh, I know exactly how it's going to feel and I know exactly what I have to do um For me like the first hour of doing anything uh, particularly largely um extroverted is always Very anxiety provoking and hard, especially if I've been on my own or I've been in a very solid not introverted routine for a long time And it is it is difficult and I have done a lot of social things of I've been traveling for like two months. So being with with my mate constantly for about two months, which Oh, there is a really really good friends It it can be draining being around someone all the time But it is it's still something that you can Do it's not something that I don't recommend doing that like just as stuff, but it is Something to to have in mind that even if you know, we're talking about certain things that we've done and going out and stuff it doesn't mean that we're Different and we find it easier. It's just that we've We know what to expect a little bit more and we know how to deal with it Would you say that like That was that would be the case like what is your initial? um You know, if you just have another bit of an introverted week or two weeks or a month or Or that and then jumping in something a bit more extroverted. How do you feel? I I tend to tell myself this will be hard because it's the first time But after this first time I will now feel comfortable going to that restaurant again Or I'll feel comfortable going to that coffee shop again or that convention again or that music venue again the first time It's so hard because everything's new But then I can become a master of that new thing and it becomes familiar So I think that's comforting for me. Mm-hmm I I also want to say that if someone doesn't have a close friend that they can bring to these new experiences Bringing something that gives an anchor of some kind can be so helpful. So Taking your dog People love to go up and pet dogs, you know, so that helps and that can be a starting point a conversation point Taking a camera to take photos That gives you an anchor a purpose to be in that new place um, or like I keep saying convention convention convention, but Cosplaying it helps you to meet other people who are interested in that same fandom that you're cosplaying from So bringing an anchor of some kind a conversation starter of some kind Can take off some of that pressure of how do I even start talking? Yeah, and I think I think if um people want to to do those sort of extreme extroverted things it is important to build up some friendships Or with other people first I think one of the things that I've touched on in For what one of my videos is Going somewhere that you you know like a framework to I think I think I think we talked about this as well, but um having having a bit of a framework and knowing what you should talk about is It's unimaginably helpful. Like if you hate small talk, which I know a lot of us do um, and if you struggle to think of new topics Go to somewhere where you know people are going to like the same thing as you do so you can just monologue away and you can um, obviously like have a conversation not just speak at them, but you at least you know Sort of an idea of what you're supposed to be talking about or something that you can talk about So the worst thing the worst thing is is going somewhere that you have nothing in common with Anybody because you've just decided I'm going to go to like a house party But you just off the bat I've got no friends. I'm just going to go to a house party. That's a great way No, no way that you're going to have a mixed bag of people with different ideas and values and personalities It's not a good way to navigate yourself But I'm not saying that you would do but if you were thinking about it, don't do it. It's not a good idea Yeah, I've known before Cool, so I think that's pretty much all I wanted to talk about in terms of like questions So we uh, should we go over some of like the main things that you want people to take away like what what things that immediately um, or gradually pop into your head that you want people to Understand from this podcast I would say that I Hope that autistic people can feel empowered to do extroverted activities But at the same time Don't try to do extroverted activities because you feel like other people are telling you to do them Like I think it's important for us to seek out the extroverted activities that genuinely interest us And move forward from there. I think that's the biggest takeaway Like don't just do it because I want to make friends, you know but go to the things that have actual meaning and then We can grow from there And I would say the other big thing is is that mindset of trying something new is only leading To having something else be familiar That the first time is the hardest time and from then on you now have a new thing that you can like Go to every time and order the same thing and bring people to And I think that those are the main takeaways that I hope autistic people can Can enjoy hearing about can can Can move forward with That's great. Like you've been I think you've been the quickest person to bring up things To mind. Have you made a list? Have you made a little light note on uh, what you wanted to say? Just off the top of your head. Just just that verbal processing Point Very good Um, so yeah last question, which is something I ask every single person that comes onto this podcast What does autism mean to you autism to me? two things to me It is the answer And autism is also my liberator So autism spectrum disorder for me was the answer to All of those lies that I told myself about being broken Or being undeserving It was the answer that told me that's not true. It's not just you. There's all these other people like you and All of you all of us we have so much to offer and to share And I think that leads into autism being my liberator every time that I Feel scared or feel Uncomfortable I have this beautiful thing that just tells me You're autistic and it's okay And it's gonna make things different. So I'm just gonna make things hard. So I'm just gonna make things beautiful and I choose to always think of autism as a positive Thing in my life that leads me forward to being the best version of myself instead of denying who I am Wow I don't have any other words to say about that. That was amazing You touched you definitely touched a nerve with that I haven't received an answer like that before And honestly like every time I ask this I have no idea what's gonna Gonna happen Some people give, you know, very logical answers and factual answers, but That that was that sounded very personal Thank you for that Okay So that pretty much Does it for the the questions? Are there any links or social media things that you want to give out Just in case anybody wants to follow up and see what you do and Follow you and all that I would always say please check me out on my instagram Aspinal I love receiving direct messages if you Ever just want to drop a line or ask for a tip. Please feel free to I always screenshot them and Get to them eventually in my posts and I just hope to meet other autistic people through instagram It's just been I'm so grateful for my community there. So come join it Definitely and I will put those links down in the description along with anything else that you think of that you want to add later Guys, thank you so much for listening to us Talk about our special interest autism array It's been really great to talk to you and it's um It's definitely been a little bit different than the usual podcast that I do. So it's nice to have a bit of um Bit difference in it, you know Some variety Some variety. Yeah, I was trying to think of the word Uh, but yeah, uh This has been the 40 or two podcast My name is Thomas Henley. I don't know if I said that at the start. I usually open with that But yeah, um, I have a youtube channel and stuff called aspergis growth and You can find me on instagram twitter facebook All of those lovely social media sites at at aspergis.com No, I was gonna do my email again No way Ah Right at aspergis growth. That's my social medias And if you want to find more out More things about the uh 40 or two podcast more ways of viewing it. It's available on Spotify Believe it's available on apple podcasts now now that i've changed some things around with the titles And it's always available on youtube as well Listen to it on the um the podcasting services because it helps me a lot. Thank you um If if you have any ideas of what you want the podcast next podcast to be on Uh, or you just want to send something in for me to read out on the podcast Let maybe a little question that I can add on to the end The email is aspergisgrowth at gmail.com Did it okay Brill Thank you so much for coming on Lauren. It's been a pleasure talking to you And um, I hope that we can do some more work together in the future Looking forward to it Have you enjoyed your 40 or two experience? Oh, yes, this has been really enjoyable I feel like I have so many thoughts and more questions just teeming in my mind And I just love being able to sit and talk about autism like who doesn't love that come on And with that everybody I'm going to bid you farewell Again, thank you so much for listening to me And Lauren ramble about autism in a very cool way just saying and I'll hope Hopefully see you guys in another another episode Fumbling over my words Lauren say good. Bye Goodbye See you later Stay strong Keep being strange and weird because it's cool and I'll see you in the next podcast. Bye