 Jim is an avid blogger, and I love reading his material since I've gotten to know him. His site is called Berg Dysphoria. And if it's been a while since you've heard the word dysphoria, it's of Greek origin. And it means the movement, migration or scattering of people away from an established or an ancestral homeland. Berg means Pittsburgh. Jim has done years of research on migration and the economic impact of dysphoria and writes about that, where it's happening, and why cities are gaining or losing trade and industry. Jim, in his previous life, was a graduate trainee in the globalization and democratization program at the University of Colorado at Boulder, and for the last few years has been helping U.S. cities craft talent migration strategies for regional economic growth. Please welcome Jim Russell. Good morning. There we go. I just wanted to say just a quick word about geography. You know, I spent many years explaining to relatives and friends at the Thanksgiving table, you know, what is it that I do? What do geographers do? And at best I would often get, oh, you study rocks. And I say, well, no, that's geology, but you know, some physical geographers do look at rocks and that's okay. Or you might get quizzed, so what's the capital of Burkina Faso? And I might be able to reel off Ugu-Dugu and do really well in the New York Times crossword puzzle, but that's trivia, that's not geography. And the easiest way I found to explain geography is that you are researching the connection between places. So if a person lives in one place and another person lives in a different place, halfway around the world, how are they connected? Geographers study that. We unearth these connections. We reveal them, we map them. And these connections are often hidden in such a way that people don't realize what's going on. And there are policy implications for that. If you don't know that there are minerals in your cell phone that come from the Congo, you wouldn't understand why the conflict in the Congo matters to you. And I'll explain this to undergraduates and say, you know, hold up your cell phones, okay, you're all responsible for the conflict in the Congo. Because without those minerals there, you have no cell phone or it's too expensive. And they're sort of awestruck by that. And I said, this is what we're going to do for a semester. We're going to learn about the connections. And most of these connections are going to surprise you. And I'm here before you this morning to talk about a connection with San Antonio that surprised me. And the first phase that we did, we discovered that, you know, instead of brain drain, which is almost every community in the United States is concerned about brain drain. And I started looking into census data, IRS data, and realized that San Antonio does not suffer from brain drain. San Antonio is one of the most rapidly gaining college-educated 25-plus-year-olds in the country. It's happening really fast. And it's not something that's been happening over time. You can literally go back to 2008 and see a break. So before 2008, if you looked at, like, top metros for attracting college-educated talent, San Antonio was nowhere to be found. And then after 2008, it shows up at number four. What happened? And so what I'm going to share with you today is what happened and what that means and what San Antonio can do to benefit from that. There we go. All right, so this is academic, theory, macroeconomics, all that. Don't want to bore you. It's actually what I want to talk about. It's fairly simple. You know boom-bust cycles, economy expanding, economy contracting. We just got done with a major economic contraction, financial crisis. And it's important to understand how, you know, the depth of that financial crisis. Because when you get a really bad recession, a depression, then you get a change in the economy. So it should be a red flag. It should be a harbinger of things to come. It's a bellwether that you know things, you know, how they used to be. They're not going to be like that anymore. So it's important to understand that 2008, getting that big change in talent migration, says that San Antonio is poised to benefit from the emerging economy, which in all fairness, no one's really sure what that new economy is at this point. But I'm going to give you a couple suggestions. What I want you to understand is when you're having the economy is growing, is expanding, that's divergence, economic divergence. It sounds a little counterintuitive, but all that means is that there are a few winners. So economic activity is concentrating in a few places. So the economic geography is diverging. You have small group doing really well, and then the rest, they're just not up with the economy. Then it peaks, and then you have the contraction. That's economic convergence. And what that means is that the other places start catching up. So you're seeing that in San Antonio now with the innovation economy. San Antonio is catching up to Silicon Valley. That means there's convergence. And a key factor to trace is concern about labor costs. I term it talent costs, but labor costs are, you know, that works. That's much more generic. And you know, in the time of divergence, in the time of expansion, no one cares what it costs. They're making so much money that they'll pay you anything. And then it gets to a point where it starts to matter, and as you get more competition as the economy diffuses, then it really, you start to look at that bottom line. You're saying, boy, how can we cut costs? How can we be more efficient? When you start seeing that as the primary concern of that major economic epic, then you're seeing convergence, okay? So keep all that in mind, because that's the lens that I use to understand what's going on in San Antonio. Okay, so recent economic epics, you've got manufacturing economy, which is the second one from the right. And the peak of it was early 20th century, about 1910, 1920. Most people, that's a little bit shocking. They think about maybe a peaking in 1950. That's when population of industrial centers peaked, and they've collapsed since then. So you have all these industrial cities that had boomed during the expansion of the manufacturing economy, and then it started to diffuse, it started to converge, and costs of labor mattered, and they started going to the Sun Belt, and that's where the opportunity was. And the peak then collapsed really quite rapidly, and then you start to see the emergence of the innovation economy, which is the last curve there, and the expansion started right after World War II. And then now we have a question of what's next, and I'm calling that the talent economy, and I'll explain to you why, but it really comes down to a matter of what is the major product of that economic epic. Okay, so back to the manufacturing economy. The iconic migration is the great migration. So I'm a talent geographer. I look at migration. I look at ironic demography, hidden migrations, hidden growth, hidden brain gait. And so what I've done is taken this theory of, okay, you have major technological innovations with an economic epic. You have, you know, what are the major products, all these things, and I added a category to help define it, and that's migration. So what's the major migration pattern associated with that economic epic? And that's important because migration is often a leading indicator of what the economy is going to look like. So I can make really good educated guesses where things are going by seeing how people are moving. And the great migration was rural south to industrial north, massive shift in population, one of the greatest migrations in the history of the world. The iconic industry, Ford. The iconic Metro Detroit. So we're talking about automobiles, and I think you can look at steel and you can look at lots of things, but it's really about cars because you'll see how that affects the next economic epic. So from one economic epic, we'll spring the next one. And San Antonio today, so what I'm going to do is go through each epic and then give you a snapshot. So this is a picture of a refrigeration manufacturing plant. I believe that those jobs have since gone to Mexico. And so this is when you had convergence. So San Antonio picked up speed of the manufacturing economy, catching up to the likes of Pittsburgh and Cleveland and Detroit. And you can tell how far we've gone is that these jobs aren't here anymore because they found even cheaper labor costs. Convergence is now diffusing from around the nation to around the world. So you're still seeing manufacturing convergence in developing countries. That's important to realize that you can have manufacturing expanding around the world even though the major economic epic is two major manufacturing or industries away from that. Okay, now we're going to start to get into a little bit of the research we've done. And this is the innovation economy. So remember, expanding after World War II. Iconic migration is suburbanization. So remember that during the divergence of the manufacturing economy, it didn't matter what you paid, your labor. You're making so much money that you could give them whatever they wanted. And so they were living in the city. They worked really hard. They made good money. And what did they do? They moved to the suburbs. That was the aspirational geography. And so what you get is a donut hole. So the inner city, the core, bleeds people. They all go out to the suburbs. Kids go to college. And that will set the stage for the next economy. Your iconic industry, Apple. So innovation is key. Not a lot of labor involved. And the cost of manufacturing is irrelevant. The cost of innovation is, you know, that's where you make your bottom line. That's what's key. That's what's driving this economy. That's where you're looking at and you're saying, whatever it takes, you make it, we'll ship it. It's not really impacting your margin on your product. And Apple is a master of that. Your iconic metro is the Bay Area. We've never seen divergence like we have in Silicon Valley. We've never seen agglomeration like we've seen in Silicon Valley. So it's not really necessarily a great migration of people concentrating in industrial cities. It's an agglomeration of wealth and ideas. So it's not so much a matter of population anymore, but a matter of knowledge and a matter of capital. Now here, San Antonio today. And what you're looking at is population change in the core county from 2000, 2010. You can see the donut hole. Red is losing population. And the darker the green, the more population gain. So this is San Antonio showing how successful it's been transitioning through the manufacturing economy and coming into the innovation economy. We have convergence. San Antonio is catching up to Silicon Valley. Now we're getting into what I call the talent economy. The iconic migration is return migration. So what you had is, you know, the kids in the suburbs, the parents did really well. You often have households with two degrees and they'll send their kids away to school. The best school they can get them into. And then those kids, once they graduate, will go to big city. They'll go to New York. They'll go to Chicago. And they won't just go there. They'll do really, really well. And then at some point, it might be because family, immediate family gets ill. They need caretaking. They might decide to start a family. They come home. And I'm seeing this trend explode across the United States. So there's a major migration shift going on. And when they move back, they don't move back to the suburbs they grew up in. They've cultivated a taste while in big city for urban neighborhoods. And so then they come back to places such as San Antonio. They seek out those neighborhoods that remind them of downtown D.C. or neighborhood in Brooklyn, New York. And it becomes a matter of whether or not they find them and they do. So here's San Antonio today. And what you're seeing here is the change in 25-year-olds and over with at least a four-year degree. So it goes from 2000 then 2006 to 2010. We had to do that for the reason that the data was just to get enough numbers to be able to see what's going on. That's a comparison. But a lot of the tracks in the core where you saw population loss, you're seeing more people with college degrees. This is ironic migration. This is the ironic brain game. So you're looking at an area where you're saying it's bleeding people, it's dying. And the exact opposite is happening. It is not dying. You're getting return migrants and they're moving into these historic neighborhoods in the same core. And this really picked up speed in 2008. You can speculate as to why that happened, but it's happening. And we can see it, we can map it. And I just want to go back to why I call it the talent economy. Because you're looking at iconic industry, instead of like an apple and a fort, I've got Carnegie Mellon University. And I've got the iconic metro as Pittsburgh. And so this is, Pittsburgh is my muse. I'm not from Pittsburgh. I'm fascinated with this idea of diaspora. The fact that these people who leave Pittsburgh retain strong connections to that city. And they come back. And they're coming back in really large numbers right now. Why? Because over the last five years, when you look at number of jobs grown for metros, you've got four in Texas. Okay, so Texas Triangle and Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh over the last five years has grown more jobs than Dallas. An absolute number. And no one's heard of it. No one knows why. Why? Talent economy. Because Pittsburgh produces world class talent. And so instead of a firm in Silicon Valley fighting for Pittsburgh produced talent and fighting not only with Austin and the research triangle in Seattle and Chicago, but San Antonio. Okay, so you've got all these cities fighting for this talent coming out of CMU. So what does Google and Disney, the Disney labs do? They move to CMU, literally on campus to get access to that talent. So no more fighting. You just go where the talent's produced. So it's flipped the economic paradigm. We don't have talent chasing jobs. We have jobs chasing talent. But more importantly, we have jobs chasing where the talent's produced. So it's not an issue of is it a cool city that attracts talent? Is it a city that produces talent? And that's where I'm hoping San Antonio will go. All right. So the next stage after doing this kind of demographic analysis is to think about strategies. How do you take advantage of it? So it's happening. The talent economy is happening here. I can see it in the migration. It's a leading indicator. And we conducted focus groups here about a month ago. And we were generally interested in people who had moved back here or who are newcomers. And what's your experience like? And so this one woman had moved to the city. I believe she was somebody who came here for a job, had no experience with San Antonio before. And it says, I got lost on the highways, the loops. For two months, I didn't even know there was a downtown. It held me. And across the board, you had all these stories of people feeling isolated. And this is where the term bubbles came out. Everyone was in their own little bubble and had no idea what was going on in the rest of San Antonio. And even when we talked to people who were return migrants and we talked about downtown, they said, well, the downtown isn't for residents. It isn't for us. It's for tourists. And they stayed in their bubbles. Or wherever they moved to, it was so difficult to get downtown, they didn't even bother. And so this is a primary problem. You're getting this great talent, but it's diffused. And I'll explain and I'll demonstrate to you how that is. So you're looking at outmigration tracks for the county, 2000 to 2010. The green ones are your top in migration. This is where, when people are moving from outside the region, this is where they're landing. And again, you can see in the core, it's bleeding people. These are your top outmigration tracks. Now, don't forget that this is just population, that there's ironic in migration going on in the core. You're getting college educated people going there. But most of your talent, that's coming from all around. So as San Antonio competes in the innovation economy, this talent attraction, you're spreading them out. And they're not connecting with each other. And I know this from the focus group. And the frustration, I mean, it wasn't just, like a few chirps here and there, it was a cry for help. Like, what can we do? How can we get connected? Ideas will not flow. You will not have innovation. You will not have entrepreneurial spirit. You need to connect these people. You need to exchange ideas. Here you have shading of where the residents of the top in migration tracks work. So we've got all kinds of great data on commuting. We know where they live and we know where they work. And we can map that. We made a number of really, I think, very interesting heat maps. So what you're seeing, so remember those tracks on the outside or where they're living. And then here's where they're working. So not only are they dispersed in residential pattern, they're dispersed in work environment. You have job sprawl. This is the number one issue facing Cleveland right now. You've got most of the growing businesses are out in the suburbs. But you have all this ironic migration in the core. So there's a huge disconnect in your emerging talent pool and where people are working. And they're all missing each other. And we can see it. And we have a series of maps in the report that will make this even more clear. And we'll drill down and we'll get into specifics. All right, so I'm going to finish up here. Just takeaways just to help you remember what we just went through. Talent economy, not innovation economy. Innovation economy is converging. The talent economy is diverging. There are going to be a few winners like Pittsburgh in terms of talent production. And so this is a key time for a few cities to get ahead. Silicon Valley has a major problem on its hands. Very, very good at talent attraction. It's horrible at talent production. And now it's going to be competing with the likes of all these San Antonio's that are ramping up to speed. They're just not going to be able to afford to do it. And they don't have return migration. They didn't spend time producing talent that would go far away and do big things. So as I said, return migration, not talent attraction. Talent attraction is innovation economy, converging. Return migration is talent production, a feature of that. And that's happening here. And it's happening here rapidly. And so I would suggest you need to, you know, think about that as a centerpiece of your economic development strategy. Authenticity, not cool urban amenities. Cool urban amenities are great for talent attraction. Authenticity, it's home is special. So you have people leaving the suburbs, anywhere as well. The suburbs look all the same all across the country. I know I've seen them. And the kids that leave them get a taste for unique neighborhoods. So we're in this cool, funky neighborhood in Brooklyn. And when they move back, they don't move back to the suburbs. They move back to the neighborhoods that remind them of their time in big city. And so they're seeking out these historic neighborhoods. And we're seeing this in the data and we're mapping it. And it's real. You're getting college educated people from all over. And they want these kinds of environments. Talent production and export, not retention. Retention is interestingly enough a strategy from the manufacturing economy when you had local talent production for local jobs. So keep in mind how that's different from innovation economy. You're attracting talent from elsewhere. So when I look at workforce development programs, most of them are stuck in the manufacturing economy. They're 100 years old. And they're not in some places are catching up. So like Austin catching up to the innovation economy and talent attraction, no one is looking ahead. No one is looking to where we're going. Population quality, not quantity. Population growth or decline is a feature of the manufacturing economy. We're interested in the educational attainment rights. So focus on the talent production. Focus on how smart your workforce is. In an innovation economy, it's not bodies. It's a matter of like you have the most creative people, the best knowledge producers. And again, I'll remind you, look forward, not backward, not back towards the innovation economy, but forward to the talent economy. Thank you. Is that not interesting? And I have the sense that all of you are going to want to ask questions. And so on your tables, there are sheets of paper and pens. If you want to, we, after Graham is done speaking, the three of us are going to go up to the chairs and we're going to wrap up with some Q&A this morning. And so how about that segue, ladies and gentlemen? In the New York Times article that was published two weeks ago, this was the opening paragraph. Where others saw an abandoned shopping mall with weeds growing in the parking lot, graffiti on the walls, and homeless men camping out in what was once a food court, Graham Weston envisioned a corporate headquarters. In this room, we all know what was once a park mall became the corporate headquarters for Rackspace. That vision as an entrepreneur began early for Graham when he launched his first business in seventh grade, his second in high school, and then again as a student at Texas A&M. 14 years ago, Graham and a partner provided the original capital for a business idea pitched by three local Trinity University students. And they called it Rackspace.com. Graham joined the enterprise as CEO and then remained in that position through 2006 when he became chairman. Graham has also started the 80-20 foundation that funded the research you saw this morning with over $2 million now in assets. And in addition to being a successful dot-com and real estate investor, Graham descends from British nobility on his mother's side and Canadian grocery magnets on his father's side. Please welcome the chairman of the board of Rackspace, Graham Weston. Good morning. Good morning. Well, that was interesting stuff, wasn't it? I think that often we, I think we have an inferiority complex in San Antonio. Do you ever feel that? And this, when we commissioned this research to be done, we really didn't know what was going to come out of it. We didn't know what was going to happen from this research. In fact, going into it, I really thought that the data would show that we were losing brain power, that we had a brain drain. That was really the thesis that we thought would turn up. But it turns out that San Antonio is really a prosperous, exciting place. That is the way we feel ourselves here in San Antonio may be actually true. That's exciting. And I think it's some of the best news that I've heard all year, because rather than building from a declining foundation, we build from strength. And that's really something for us to be proud of. Think about all the other cities in the country, the ones that are struggling with unemployment, which we're not, that is one struggling with foreclosures, which we're not, ones that are struggling with keeping their young people and keeping their educated population. I mean, I was in, over in Ireland, for example, all their college educated people are moving out of the country, much less out of the city. That is, there are places with real problems. And just to think of ourselves as the sixth best, what do we, how do I say it? Six best brain gain city in the country out of the top 100 metros? It's pretty astounding. That's incredible. And I think, I learned a lot here, because the idea of the talent economy, that we're trying to produce talent, and that's absolutely true. It really shows you how important our universities are and how the decades ahead are so important for them to rise to even greater prominence. You know, UTSA is producing the, increasing the number third, number three in population of the Texas universities. That's really important because we have to have an educated population. But also all the other universities that are around town must, okay, I'll talk louder, okay. The other universities, that is this is an invitation for all the universities in San Antonio to up their game and participate as a very important factor in our city. The other thing that we found with Rackspace is that Rackspace will have hired around 800 employees this year. And about two-thirds of them had to move to San Antonio or had to move to us to take that job. So we tend to focus a lot on this idea of recruiting people to San Antonio. And for our moment in time, it's important because we're not able to fuel the growth that we have purely from San Antonio population as it is. But what I learned is that the idea of return migration is really just a more powerful and sort of a better long-term approach because we know that when we are able to find people in Silicon Valley or New York or D.C. or anywhere else in the country, if they have a tie to Texas, there's a very good chance that we can recruit them. If they don't, it is really hard. Well, especially if they don't have kids. So if they have kids, San Antonio becomes dramatically more marketable. If they're single, they don't. It's very, very difficult to attract single people to San Antonio today. But I think the whole idea that the people that you know, the people who moved away from San Antonio in their youth are probably our best prospects on brain game coming back. And I think that's actually doable. If you ask any parent or grandparent whether they'd like their kids to move back, they're probably the most motivated people in the world to get the brain game to happen in San Antonio. I think also this whole idea of talent production, this is something that SA 2020 was about. It's something that the mayor is very much focused on. And I think that that's something that is really something for us to realize that we can't recruit our way to greatness here. We are producing a large number of high school graduates each year. And the question is, what do we do with that raw material? I was just in Canada last week and up in Canada, they're a raw material. They're a natural resource country. They take wood, they take lumber, they take oil, they take diamonds, and they refine them and bring them to the rest of the world. They're really a raw material country. In a way, the raw material of South Texas is our young people. And we just have to learn how to refine them and to keep them, to make them productive here. And I think that that's a... To me, this is... Jim has delivered to us some really insightful information that can help our city leaders and help each of you contribute more to the city. So again, thank you very much for your research, Jim. And we're very excited about the information that you turned up and hope that we can turn those insights into action for our city. Thank you, Jim. Questions? Yeah, that's a good question. When I introduce the talent economy and I talk about these aspirational programs, it's important to remember that the other economies haven't gone away. And I'm sure there are a lot of people in this room who could tell me talent attraction is a big deal, and it matters, and of course it matters. And so a lot of the patterns that you see here are in San Antonio, are indicators of a successful innovation economy. And you just don't ignore that or say, well, we just got to make it into something that it's not. And so these clusters that are developing, they're all important. This part of the innovation economy that is converging, cities need to be a part of that. It's still like there's a lot of money involved in that. There's a lot of economic growth involved in that. And so we're really talking about this more in adding another layer. And I think the easiest way to move around such a way is to move the talent, not the industry. And so it's really more of an issue for the talent economy of connecting the talent, not necessarily connecting the industry. And it used to be more important to connect the industry. That's why you had industry clusters. So you're looking at Michael Porter's work. And that's a key feature in a lot of regional economic development. And what I'm saying is that's great. Keep doing that. And that does work. And it's a big part of San Antonio. But what's emerging is you need to connect the talent too. And you got to figure out ways of doing that. And getting them in authentic historic neighborhoods is one way. If you think about our industries, what are their industries? We have two of the top five oil refiners in the world, but we don't have an oil industry. We don't have a refining industry. We have several insurance companies. We have one of the largest insurance companies in the country, a company we can all be proud of across the street here. But we don't have an insurance industry. We have a lot of tourism, but I don't know if we have a tourism industry, because if you think about it in Las Vegas, most of the Las Vegas casinos are based, have headquartered there based in Las Vegas. We have only one hotel company based in San Antonio that's Drury. So La Quinta has moved out. La Moncion has moved out. That is Marriott State based here. Hyatt's not based here. So most of the industry here is made up of the feeder system to those companies. And so to me, now, of course, we do have a cluster of industries downtown feeding tourism. So the restaurants, the caterers, the events people, there certainly is a cluster of sorts there. But about a year ago, I saw this as I traveled for a rack space business with a fellow racker, Nick Longo. Raise your hand, please, Nick. He and I were launching a startup program, a special program aimed toward fostering more startups as rack space customers. And as we traveled the country promoting this program, we saw an incubator system that had arisen in New York and LA and San Francisco. And we came back to Texas, came back to San Antonio determined to create one here. And it's called Geekdom. And Geekdom is now one year old. And what's really shocked us is that we've added about 40 members every single month. And these are members paying $50 and up a month. And they really joined for the community aspect of it, to be part of the lectures, part of the community, just to be part of the mixture of startups here in San Antonio. What surprised us is that there was way more activity here than we thought. So we were hoping that we'd get to maybe 150 members in a year and instead we're nearly at 500. And so I think that by sort of creating a heartbeat for the startup community, we've gotten people to come closer together and create more activity. There have already been a number of startups created out of it. So I think that when you say create opportunities for collisions, this is kind of what we did, not really understanding what was happening, but there was a lot more activity happening than we thought. So I bet that if we were able to concentrate this, these activities, you'd see a lot more. And certainly we have an industry cluster in the medical area. I think that, you know, huge concentration of doctors and technicians and researchers. So I think we have it there. The trouble is that that's probably the only place in the city. Military, we have it there too. Other questions? Please. Thank you. For Jim and Graham, you know, it's really exciting news to know that San Antonio is a, it's really producing a lot of great talent. It's moving all over the country and then coming back. Can you speak to, and maybe this is first for Jim, can you speak to what the ultimate return on investment may be? If we recognize this, it's kind of more of a, certainly a different investment strategy, more of a long lead strategy, expecting that boomerang to come back to San Antonio. We're ready to double down, essentially, on investment in that refinement of talent that's coming out of San Antonio's colleges and universities. You have some sense on what the value might be back to those universities in terms of their brand, in terms of actually creating more gravity and critical mass as a net exporter of great talent, kind of that Carnegie Mellon experience. Yeah, that's a great question. And really one of the more challenging elements of what I'm talking about is, you know, it's an anathema to any community to say, not only are we going to let our best and brightest go, we're going to intentionally ship them away. And that's just counterintuitive. It seems like you're killing your own community. That's your human capital, that's the future. And what happened in Pittsburgh, and please understand, Pittsburgh didn't intentionally do this. It just happened. You know, during the collapse of the early 1980s recession, they did such a good job of educating people that they were all able to leave. Because if you look around at different Rust Belt communities, when they all went through that downturn, most of them retained their talent. They didn't all go running to the Sun Belt. Whereas in Pittsburgh, not only did they go running to the Sun Belt, but they went running to Tokyo, and London, and Dubai. They went around the world and they were wildly successful. And, you know, the big problem for Pittsburgh at that time was they didn't have the jobs for the kind of talent they were producing. And that's actually really clever. So what you could do is say, okay, Silicon Valley, we know your start for talent. We'll produce it for you. So even if you didn't have a certain kind of industry cluster here, what you would do is figure out where the main need is and start producing that talent. So your orientation of workforce development is no longer local at all. You're looking around the world and saying, what's the shortage? So right now we're looking at a massive shortage of petroleum engineers. You're having a bunch of people about to retire and you're having this global boom thanks to, you know, non-conventional drilling. And so there's going to be a huge crisis. Well, the place that produces a lot of these people is just going to start attracting firms. And that's the return on investment. And then it's so really what you're doing when you export talent is you're attracting industry clusters that you couldn't develop yourself. And so companies will say, well, why are we competing with all of these other companies around the world when we could just move to San Antonio? And so you could develop new clusters, industry clusters that way just by means of talent production. So that's, I think, is the fundamental return on investment. You know, you're going to get these kids to come back. They're going to bring their networks and that's all important too. But I think, you know, inevitably it's going to be the attraction of these industry clusters that otherwise San Antonio would never develop. Graham, anything to add? Well, when I think about, this is not research-based, but I think that when he talks about talent production, it is when a Google moves to a campus or a oil company moves to a campus, they're there for not just general talent, but they're looking for specialized talent, in my opinion. And I think that it's, you know, I would love for our top universities here, for all of our universities here to be known for something. I feel that today most of them are general universities. And so I think that if anyone wants to be famous, they become famous for something. And so the question to me, the question I have for UTSA, for Trinity, for St. Mary's, for TLU, for Our Lady of the Lake, is what do you want to be famous for? I think that they all want to be famous, but it's not, whenever I hear their strategic plans, it's not clear to me what they want to be famous for. And to me, until you figure out what that is, it's not very likely that any one of our general universities is going to be famous, you know, relative to all the other famous general universities. I mean, they really need to find a specialty, a number of specialties. This is, again, not research-based, but if you're going to find Google moving here, it's going to be for computer science engineers. It's not going to be for English majors. And so it's not going to be for history majors. It's not going to be for general engineers. It's going to be for a specific thing. If you're going to have the Wall Street Journal move here, they may want to be here for English majors. That is, I'm just saying that there's a need for each of these majors. I'm not talking about positively or negative about any one, but I think it turns out that these specializations are where we gain power. We have power right now in the cybersecurity area in our city. Even though its scale is tiny, the fact that it is something that as we focused on and become famous for means that we can attract the NSA within 150 yards of us. It means we attract the NSA that's a few miles away. This specialization, they're here for the general education that's being turned out at our schools. It's here for the specialized. It's a softball, Graham, I swear. I'm just going to toss it. So crystal ball, because we see research and numbers and... What's it look like in 5 to 10 years? What's it look like in 5, 10, or 20, based on the research that you've done? Here. Yes. I think it's important to recognize that any kind of future casting is fraught with peril. But what I do, and when I say I look for ironic demography, is I take trends that already exist that everyone's missing, because that's a good way to future cast, because something's already happening, just no one's noticing it. And so in demography, we can look at the way things are going and say, well, here are 15 to 24-year-olds, and in 20 years, there are going to be our 35 to 44-year-olds. And so we can have an idea of what the population is going to look like. But even when we've done projections like that, like I've seen in the 1970s, what are going to be the largest cities in the world in 2000? And they didn't get a single one right. So it's very, very challenging. But what I can say to you is a lot of what I'm seeing happening now is it will look really good in 10 to 20 years. So remember, we're talking about this starting in 2008, and not only does it show up in the numbers, but it shows up when you talk to people. Like this neighborhood really started turning around, around 2008, 2009. You know, it's a continual story. But this is just starting. We really got to this demographic change early. I've never unearthed it this early anywhere else. And so you can look at other cities, say, such as Pittsburgh. So Pittsburgh had similar ironic demography in about 2003. This was the time when U.S. Airways was about to dump its hub, and everyone was projecting doom and gloom. And a few people were looking at it and saying, actually, things look pretty good. We're getting smarter quickly. And that's what's happening here. So I imagine 10 years from now, you know, you'll look a lot like talent production in Pittsburgh. I think, you know, I look at, you know, and I'm going to get in trouble for saying the term, but I look at hipster migration. I look at you because they're leading indicators. Where they're going, where they think is cool, it's cool before the press knows about it. And so this is a nice predictive tool. So if I can track this successfully, then I can look like I have a great crystal ball. And the truth of the matter is, I'm just looking at what's happening now and saying, eventually, the press is going to catch up to this. And once the press does, that in and of itself generates in migration. And I think when the buzz starts getting out from San Antonio, San Antonio embraces this narrative of brain game and starts to get everyone rowing in the same direction on the talent economy. And hipsters start to get wise to the neighborhood assets that you have here and the cool buildings. I mean, San Antonio is one of the most unique cities in the world. It's got great assets, and I know that hipsters would love it. If they get wind of it, you're going to beat them away with a stick. And that's where I think San Antonio is going. And to contrast it with Pittsburgh a little bit, you know, ahead of Pittsburgh, in terms of the last five years in job growth, is San Antonio. So San Antonio is just getting this and at the same time, having a jobs boom. So that convergence, that says, I know, I think San Antonio is one of the three big winners of the emerging talent and economy, Louisville and Pittsburgh being the other two. Now, how do you define a hipster? I know what it is when I see it. Yes, yes, hipsters are like pornography. And so it is tough to define, but it's a very small word-of-mouth migration. They tend to be college-educated, involved in creative industries, and they're highly geographically mobile and very fickle. So like when the slacker scene got going in Austin, by the time it went national, it was done. They were gone. They had gone to Seattle and Minneapolis. You know, they're very fickle, and they'll spend a year or two at most, and then they'll move on. I think San Antonio is poised to be receiving that kind of in-migration. Gentlemen, we have time for one more question. I'm finding this subject very, very interesting, but what I think I'm hearing is that we've recognized this phenomenon in Bear County since 2008. What I'm actually more curious about is, have we figured out any of the drivers of it so far or are we just saying it started, now we want to figure out how to grow it? I think at this point we're really talking about what do you want to do with it and how you can best leverage it. So I look at talent migration and I say, how can it benefit metro economic development? And so I'm pointing this out and saying, hey, it's happening. What are you going to do with it? And you can leverage this and you can accelerate it. You can grow new industry clusters. You can become renowned for certain kinds of talent production and enhance more return migration. But we can also talk about what caused it and what went on. And I think one factor is just that during the recession, there were few places that were growing jobs. And so you've got all these people who used to, who grew up here and went somewhere else and it was an area that was struggling. They knew and they talked to their parents and their friends who were still back here and they find out, oh, there are jobs. Come back home. And so that will drive some of that. And we could come up with other things. I was talking with Pat about AT&T and it reminded me of the U.S. Airways stories for Pittsburgh. It was as if what was going to be doom and gloom ended up unleashing San Antonio and making it look elsewhere. And so I think you lose the industry obsession and then start to say what's next. And that energy attracts people. People who left AT&T San Antonio and then heard about that it's different through the grapevine. And that's a very attractive proposition. Kelly's another good example. You have the aerospace workforce that was here when Kelly left and I bet every single one of them is still employed in the aerospace industry. Really it seems like hardly a bump in the road. And now with Boeing and Lockheed actually coming here for it. It's really a good example of that. Any final thoughts, gentlemen? Well, just to keep this in mind, you got to see a really early glimpse of the demographic analysis. When I came to San Antonio to do the field work, expected to find a bunch of things and found none of them. And as a researcher it was sheer panic and running around trying to figure out what was going on because it was really perplexing. But in a good way. It's a good problem to have. But what's going on here isn't going on anywhere. And that's something I think, that's a story that needs to be told. You need to raise the profile of that story. Just like you need to raise the profile of the return migrants who have come back. A lot of them have come back, they're very talented, but they need to be able to identify as a community. And people need to learn about what's going on and then they start to connect. But I think when your story goes national, you're going to get a lot of dividend migration from that. It will encourage more return migration, but also you're going to start seeing people show up here, you know, sight unseen. But they heard about the buzz. And I think that's really important. I think also this is a really cool moment to be part of San Antonio. Because have you ever heard the stories about how 20 years ago the city was really controlled by five white men? You ever hear of that story? If that's true today, I don't know who they are. I mean really, the city is not controlled by any five white men. I think that we're at a moment where we're a real city now. And where we became a big city through population. Not like cities like Chicago or Houston. Those cities have been big, great cities for 100 years. We've been a big city maybe for 20 years. And it seems like we're only now growing into our shoes. So now that there's no one person in charge or one class of person or one part of town that's in charge, I really think that this is a city that we can build during our generation. We can go from being a big small town to being a great city, really over the next 20 years. And we have a great foundation to build on. And I think not many people get the opportunity to actually build a city. Most of the time the city is kind of built when we get there. But that's what's going to happen over the next 20 years. And we've just got an incredible foundation to build on. So thank you all for your attention. And I hope that you learned something from this research. So thank you. Graham West and Jim Russell are thanks to you this morning. For those of you who would like to take a look at the entire report that Jim is producing, you will be able to find that on the SA 2020 website. And if you notice the cameras when you came in this morning, for those of you who would like to share what went on this morning with your peers, with the boards that you are on, or with other community leaders, that is all possible thanks to this morning's technology. You will find this webcast parked on NowCastSA.com and look for Brain Gain SA. NowCastSA.com, Brain Gain SA, and the SA 2020 website. Lorenzo Gomez, Daryl Byrd, I thank you both. I thank our sponsors, BB&T, Peer Pond Communications, Texas Mutual Insurance. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving with your families. Jeff, thank you. You're welcome. That was fun. That was great stuff. Great stuff.