 Good morning and welcome to Moments with Melinda. Thank you for joining me today. My guest is the indomitable Peter Ash, who is the president and CEO of Twin Craft Skincare in Winnowsky, Vermont. Hello, Peter, how are you? I'm Melinda, very well. Good morning. Thank you so much for joining me. I've been wanting to talk to you a lot about your life and your career. And so here we are today on this relatively gray March day. But let's get let's get let's kick this right off. Now, Pete, you were born in Montreal, right? Tell us a little bit about your childhood. I was born in Montreal and had a lovely childhood, wonderful parents and live there, went to school there and then ended up in Ontario, going to college and left basically when I was around 18 and really had a great, great childhood. I was very fortunate. And eventually you came to the United States. What brought you here? I, it's kind of a funny story, actually. I was, I had traveled quite a lot. My mom used to be an Olympic skier and so we traveled around. We were a big ski family, kind of a big sports family. And I realized when I was around 18 that I'd never seen my country or much of my country. So I went out West and started working for a company and did that. It was actually a lecture, Lux of all things, knocking on doors. I went out there to get this big job in the oil industry or something. You know, I was young, I was 18. I just wanted to make some money. Figured I could make, I remember like $18 an hour, which was a fortune, didn't find anything. And so answered this blind ad, ended up knocking on doors, selling vacuum cleaners. And I turned out to be one of the best jobs in my life. Taught me a lot about myself and I had a wonderful manager, this guy named Edgar Litz, who'd been there for 30 odd years. And so I worked there right through college and started working for their corporate office in Toronto. And then after I graduated, they asked me to come down and work for their corporate office in Stanford, Connecticut. And that's what brought me into the States. And you ended up actually in New York, right? Ended up in New York. What happened? Well, I started working for my family business. I was actually going to go and run Electrolux's Management Training Center in Atlanta. I was all of 25 years old at the time and they wanted me to go down to Atlanta. I was kind of on my way there. My dad called and said he'd love me to come and work in the family business. And so we sort of had a little negotiation and I ended up working for the family business. And we had an office in Livingston, New Jersey, which is a lovely place if you're married and have kids. And it's really kind of not the most lovely place if you're single and 25 years old. So I thought, boy, I'd really like to get into New York and found an office in New York and from a spice company that had gone bankrupt. And we were right beside the Flatiron Building on 23rd and 5th. And it was quite a lovely experience. I spent about five years in New York during some pretty formative time in my life. So it was lovely and interesting. It's so fascinating to say. So what did you do? What was your first job out of college? Oh, I sold vacuum cleaners. I mean, it was your best job ever, which there you have it. It teaches you a lot about yourself because you have to get up in the morning. It's a commissioned job and you're knocking on doors and you don't know who's behind the door. And so what I learned actually is people are pretty nice. They're kind, they're generous. And I was part of a college program and they really wanted to help. And I developed a very positive attitude about people. And one of the main parts of that was from this job, funny enough, you know? Cause... No kidding, I like the luck of it was. And they're great vacuum cleaners. So who would you say Pete had the greatest influence on you growing into the man you are today? Oh gosh, that's a tough question to answer. I know, but it's really important. It's really important. I think a lot of people have been real influences. My dad, certainly my mom, I've always been very close to both of them. And my dad died last year, but my mom is still up in Montreal. And, you know, they've always been definitely, you know, significant influences in my life, you know, amongst, amongst others as well. So... And maybe your first boss at Electrolux had some influence on you too. He definitely did, you know? Cause, you know, I mean, the Actum Cleaners has a, you know, is sort of a jaded industry selling door to door. You think of it like, oh God, you know? And it was very, it was, you know, you realize how deep things are when you actually are in them, you know? And when I say deep, I mean meaningful and positive. And he was a great guy. And then I went, I started working in Ontario to this guy, Angus McClellan, who came from Newfoundland. He was from a family of 24 for real. And he had a big influence on me. It was actually that particular branch was mostly filled with reformed alcoholics because Angus was one. And that's who he hired to give them second chances. And so I used to go to A meetings with the guys just out of curiosity, because, you know, it's not something that I'm not an alcoholic or anything, but they said, yeah, come, you know, I've always been curious. And so that also had a real impact on me. And probably from there, I became an assistant parole officer because I was mixing up with people who were, you know, in need of some, you know, kind of the other side of the tracks, if you will. And that was very helpful to me to learn that because I came from a pretty privileged background. So. You learned your humanity from quite a few people. So Pete, tell us a little bit about the history of Twincraft, which was started by your dad and his twin brother, Twincraft, and now by you and your brother. So tell us a little bit about the company. Well, we started in Montreal back in 72. We had our 50th anniversary last year and we expanded into the States. And we were involved in a whole variety of businesses really, but mostly making soap was our principal business. And in 1986, I joined 80, pardon me, October 184. You know, it's amazing how many things you have stored up here that are kind of useless information, but that's that. And we were doing a bunch of different things and eventually we ended up just focusing on contract manufacturing, manufacturing product for brands, high-end brands, medium to high-end brands. And we shut our down, our Montreal facility, our Vermont facility became kind of our principal facility. And we grew pretty substantially from there because it's a good business to be in. It's sort of like behind the scenes, the brands all do their thing, but we're making for many of the brands different types of product. So what inspired your family to move the company to Vermont? Well, it was interesting. It was in the 70s. There were a lot of political issues in Quebec. And you had the language police who were kind of on top of my dad and my uncle because their business was twin craft. And they said, well, that's not right because twin is an English word and it has to be jumelle craft because jumelle is the French word for twin and everything has to be in French. And that was just sort of a real nuisance. And in addition to that, we're doing a lot of business in the States about 50% of our business. So they had to expand the Montreal facility. And they said, you know, given everything that's going on in Montreal, why don't we just expand to the States and build another facility there hop over the border because we had 20% duties from Canada to the US. So we could avoid those duties and be competitive. You know, it was sort of a trade barrier for manufacturers in the States to keep other manufacturers out. So we just hopped over the border, did that and it worked out really, really well. So well that we decided to close up the Montreal facility and just be here. Your parents continued to live in Montreal? They did, yeah, yeah. But by then I had joined the company, I was president and so my dad was sort of, you know, half retired by then and then fully retired by, you know, the mid 90s. And so it worked out well for everybody actually. And I love Vermont. I actually ended up moving up from New York to Vermont. Well, we're so glad you did. So I know there was a period of time a few years ago when you and your brothers sold the company and then you turned around and you bought it back. Tell us a little bit about that story. So when we decided to go and become contract manufacturers, it was a bit of a revolutionary thing for the business because we were involved in three businesses and we decided to focus on one. And it was a troubled time for the company. It was 1994 actually. So that turned out to be a really good decision. The company became a lot smaller, but from there we expanded very quickly and to the point where we became very quite successful financially and we were much bigger. And there was a desire amongst, I had my brother and two other minority partners to sell the business. I was 2006, as you recall, this country was pretty excited about a lot of things. I say coked up and it was a big party. And so we had a lot of offers and we decided to sell the business, but I stayed on with the business. The others left and eventually some right away, some after a year or two. And I stayed on on contract, sold to this public company. And the idea was to kind of use their money to get into the skincare business because we wanted to build a factory, get into skincare and didn't want to take all the risk. And I was happy staying in the business. So I stayed in the business and kind of on contract, if you will, a three-year contract. I worked out really well. A lot of people said there's no way you'll ever be able to work for anybody else, but actually it was quite fine. It was good. The financial pressures were off, if you will. And I worked for them and they were a public company. So I was going to New York for all the meetings, the 10Ks, Qs, all of that kind of stuff, which was interesting. And then the big recession happened, as you recall in 0809, the credit freeze and everything. We sort of fortunately sold at just the right time. It was the best year we'd had for and have had, you know, at least until a few years afterwards. And so they decided, let's sell the business. And I ended up buying it back. And then my brother came back into the company after during that period. And that was January, 2012. And we've sort of expanded pretty dramatically since then and built the skincare business out of the success of the sale. And we're able to fund it ourselves and kind of keep the shares close as well so that we remain a Vermont company and Vermont controlled. We didn't have to bring in private equity to grow or do any of that. So that's been very pleasing, I think, and very satisfying. That's wonderful. Good for you for bringing it back into the family. So now your company creates skincare products from oils, soap, suntan lotions, creams, you name it. Is there anything that you would like to make that you haven't yet? We like to hope and think that that which we make we should become expert at. And then as we become expert at it, you know, capitalism is pretty competitive. So, you know, if you're jack of all trades, you truly are master of none. So you need to get the excellent at what you do. And as we become excellent at one item, let's say, let's say that's emulsions, doing lotions, things like that, then we will go to other items. So we're doing SPFs now. We're doing deodorants, underarm deodorants, et cetera, all natural kind of stuff. We tend to our biases towards natural. So we do natural deodorants, natural SPFs, et cetera. There's zinc based and whatnot. And there's a growing market, a big good size market for that. And it's growing as well. But we stay focused on becoming expert at things and then expanding to another category. The skincare business is a large business. You know, we could be a significantly larger company and probably will be over time. So we're careful not to do too much. So has anybody come to you where you said, you know, we're really not interested? In selling or? In making and creating. Has somebody come to you where you kind of go, no, that's not our gig? Yeah, we went through our little walk through the desert at the beginning where we had a lot of people asking for like mineral based SPFs, you know, SPF 70. And we said, well, we'll think about it. That's the wrong answer. The answer is no, we don't do it, but here's what we do and focus on that because as soon as you sort of give a customer an idea, you might be able to do it. Then your lab starts working on it. And we have a pretty big lab. So we try to stay focused on that which we can become excellent at and leave it at that and learn to say no to that which we can't do and it's not in our expertise. Right. So you get 70% of your energy to run your operation from the sun. That's pretty impressive. How do you figure that? Oh, you mean in, yeah, of course. 70% of the energy that you use to do what you do is renewable energy. I mean, you're kind of a leader in this. So that's pretty impressive. Thank you. Thank you. You know, it's important to us. Absolutely. So good for you on that. Now, Twincraft made their first bar of soap back in 1972 which is the year that my son was born. He's now 50. And now you are a $40 million a year company with over 250 employees. What do you attribute to your incredible success, Peter? Yeah, we actually did 80 last year, 80 million. So we've grown, we've grown. That site is a little old. Let me change that. 80 million is trouble that you've doubled it from the time that I found that. So you are an $80 million a year gross sale company. That's amazing. So what do you attribute to your success? Getting into the skincare business. The soap business, the bar soap business is a great business but skincare is substantially larger. So after 50 years of bar soap and only eight years of skincare, our skincare business is actually now bigger than our bar business and growing quickly. So there's a lot of opportunity. Is there a specific skincare that Peter Ash likes to use? I have a special formula that they make for me in the lab. It's a shea butter formula just for me. Really? Well, I want some of that because you have beautiful skin. Oh, you're sweet. Thank you. So Peter, I love the video on your website. It's a view in the bathtub full of bubbles. So if I ever dreamt about seeing you taking a bubble bath, dream no more. I just needed to go to Twincraft.com. And I encourage all my viewers to go to Twincraft.com and visit that website. It's phenomenal. But the videos of you in the bathtub. So tell us a little bit about that because they're hysterical. But we work with Jim Lance. And Jim is a Burlington guy. He's fantastic. He's wonderful to work with. And he's very creative. And he believes that in order to attract people into a company, you really have to show them what the company's about. And we like to have a lot of fun. We like to be humble or as humble as we can be and really kind of show our humanity. And so the whole idea of that video was to really show who we are and keep it away from being corporate. There's so many corporate videos and they don't resonate with people. So climbing into a bathtub half naked, getting filled with bubbles was a fun experience. And it worked pretty well as far as showing people who we were and are. Well, it was great. And there's three of them on your website, Twincraft.com. I encourage all of my viewers to visit the website. Now, Peter, you talk a lot about fun in the workplace. Can you tell us your philosophy around fun and some of the ways you inject fun into your workplace? Yeah, we're on this planet a pretty short period of time. And I hope there's something afterwards, but I'm not gonna kind of count on it. And so, it's important to have a good time at work, have a good time during your life, period. And so we try to promote that and try to have a really healthy, positive, happy work environment. And that manifests itself in many different ways, but it's really just about human interaction and enjoying each other and having people who really enjoy being together. It's the kind of water cooler, the old, they say the water cooler talk and whatnot, it's just being together is very enjoyable. And so we really try to promote having people who are kind of humanists who like to be together. So have you had trouble finding employees because the website is so positive and upbeat? I mean, I'm like, oh, I think I want to apply for a job at Twincraft, gosh. Have you had trouble finding employees or has it been for you pretty easy? How's it going? I think it's always a challenge finding really excellent people always. And it's a challenge in a big recession, it's a challenge when there's a huge expansion and very few people around, it's just a continuous challenge. That said, we hired a lot of people in May 2020 as everybody was in a full scale panic. We said, let's go forward because I'm a bit of a contrarian. If everybody's retreating, move forward. And there's a lot of opportunity when kind of the herd is moving in one direction. And so my president and I, we really sat down and said, this is the time to hire a lot of people. The skincare business is really moving forward. We believe in it. If we over hire, well, we'll figure it out. And so it was tremendously beneficial because we hired a lot of people and the business grew substantially. And then when suddenly nobody was available and other companies were struggling, we were in great shape. Good for you. Now your wife, Michelle is the vice president of leadership and organizational development. She's a powerhouse of a woman. I adore her. Tell us a little bit about working with your spouse. It's great. We worked very well together. We're very fortunate to be able to work well together. Yeah, absolutely. You're very good at Pataco. Exactly. We just work very well together. We understand each other. And so it's really no problem at all. She's very helpful to the business. She's done some really tremendous things. And she's so upbeat and positive and fun. Now I understand that your son is now involved in the operation. So as a family-owned business, it seems as if it will remain that for at least a few more generations. Well, that's the hope and the plan. And my brother-in-law is in the business as well. He worked over in the skincare area. My brother Rich has been back in the business fully for quite some time. So we're kind of an interesting hybrid because we have a family business but we're also very professional. And we like to keep it that way because I think it's really important for everybody to keep it that way. Absolutely. So many of your employees have worked at Twincraft for many years. And you do have a corporate consciousness that makes working at Twincraft special. Tell us a little bit about that, about your social responsibility in your business. I think we decided a long time ago that it's not all about money. We have to have, we're running a business. So I like to say we're not all about the money on the one side, but we're also not kumbaya on the other side. You have to sort of, how do you get that balance? Because the balance is where it's very rich. When I bought the company back actually and Rich came back, the whole one of my biggest objectives was to create a very resonant culture, a culture that treated people well, paid well, was fun. And we were growing and also making a lot of money because you have to make a lot of money if you're gonna, we spent a couple of million dollars just renovating the offices. We have three buildings now, a quarter of a million feet of space that we manufactured and warehouse in. So to be a healthy business and do well, like we have a 401k where we match five and five. So if you put 5% in, you immediately double your money, which in this day and age in the stock markets, I guess in any day and age is pretty good, but particularly now is fantastic. So, but that costs us four or $500,000 a year, just that one thing alone, the matching. So you have to kind of blend being a tough business, but also being a humane business. And how do you do that? And that's, it's a big part of what I believe in life is to achieve that balance. And I think we're sort of, if the right word is didactic, where humans have a struggle to get into the middle and it's something I'm always trying to achieve to get to that middle area where really there's balance. And I think that's where life is. Fascinating. So for my viewers who don't know about your company, because it sort of is in the background of the important brands, tell us about some of the brands that are created at TwinCraft that my viewers might recognize. Well, some of the brands are Glossier, Native, some of the legacy brands would be like Estee Lauder, etc. We make for about 120 different brands right now. So there's many, many different brands that are very recognizable actually. I mean, they're big brands. And like for instance, Native, which is one of our customers, they were bought by Procter & Gamble. But really we deal with Native rather than with the kind of big company. We deal mostly with the brand, if you will. And the brands are always looking for innovation. They're always looking for innovation. So we have a lab, we've got a dozen people in our lab and we're very innovative. We try to continuously create products and really give to the customers what they're looking for, which is innovative, interesting products that they can grow their brand and have an exciting brand. So when a company comes to you, it's not that you're, it's not they're not necessarily coming with to you with the formula. You're being innovative in creating the formula for the brand. That's fascinating. So what do you do for fun? What's your fun thing that you do? Your favorite fun thing to do, Peter Ash. Do I tell that on air, Melinda? Yes, of course you do. This is your moment with Melinda. Come on. Yes, you do. All right. Well, I went to the Bruce Springsteen Concert in Boston Monday night, which is absolutely amazing. 73, I mean, what an inspiration, a 73 year old man who's three hours rocking on stage with an 18 member band and full of songs that are all about life and love and meaning. And it was really, and it's rock and roll. It was really quite something. So I liked doing things like that. I liked to ski. You know, we've got five young adults. So we spend a fair bit of time with them. And, you know, I'm very active sports wise too. I like to hope that I'll stay healthy and well for as long as I can. Well, I swim, I ski, I do, you know, a lot of different things, I guess, sports wise. Good for you. So, Peter, what do you see for the future of our world? What's your vision for what's coming up in the next 20, 25 years? You know, I'm asked this question a lot and it's very interesting because, you know, we seem to be in this place these days that is a little bit dark and kind of biased to the negative. But I don't believe that actually for a minute. I think that, you know, the, what is the expression, the arc, you know, tends towards, you know, greater... Greater justice, yeah. Exactly, exactly. So I'm reading a book right now called Factfulness. It's by Hans Rosling, Factfulness. And it really dispels off so many of the myths that we seem to be prone to believe and, you know, explains that, you know, the world is actually doing pretty well despite everything. And I think, you know, these things have kind of been a window tour to seeing everything. And sometimes everything can look pretty ugly and we lose the bigger picture. I like to think that I stay in context. It's part of what my way of being, if you will, is to try to always stay in context, to see things from the, to see the bigger picture because you can get lost in the minutiae. I mean, all you have to do is turn on the news and, you know, you're ready to, you know, take a razor blade to your neck, you know, after seeing the news a lot. I mean, it's, but people seem to relish that. And yet at the same time, we all want to be positive. And there's a lot of positive things, you know? I mean, people being lifted out of poverty. And, you know, if you just look at a few, I mean, look at how we lived a few hundred years ago. Good Lord. I know, truly, truly. So you have a very young staff. You have over 200 employees. And you have young, you have six, I believe, six children. What wisdom do you give these young folks? And that includes your six children to help them tackle the world that they are growing up in? It's actually five children. And we had a Sudanese boy, a South Sudanese young man now, live with us, Lou F, for many years. So we're close with him. He's just a really beautiful soul. And I think the wisdom is, you know, be positive. You only have one life. And so, you know, don't waste it. It's, you know, do that, which really gives you energy and, you know, enjoy the time that you have in this world. It's precious. And, you know, you want to enjoy it. You want to make it meaningful. And I think from this interview, my viewers will see that you are someone who have created a socially responsible and caring company. And that's, and I'm sure your children and your employees watching you and Michelle navigate through your lives and through your business has been a source of wisdom for them. I'm sure it has been, wouldn't you say? I hope so. I hope so. You live your life. I mean, you are a mentor. And you are in so many ways a spiritual guide for them. So that's great. Well, listen, we've come to the end of my show. I could talk to you forever. I wish you well. I love knowing you and being a part of your air. And thank you for all you do for our community and all that you've done for our community over the years and give my love to Michelle. And you take care, Peter Ash, you're an amazing human being. Thanks for being on my show. Well, thank you, Melinda. You are an amazing person. The things you've done are really extraordinary. And we love you and so appreciate what you do. So thank you. Thank you. And to my viewers, I'll see you soon. Have a great day. Bye-bye.