 Okay. Andy, we're recording. Please go ahead. Okay. I'm going to call the town services, not reach committee meeting of the town council to order on February 15th at 10 a.m. and members of the committee are present. And I believe this Rob or is with us as well as Athena. So, I'll just first want to recognize that this meeting is being conducted by remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting. They do so by zoom or by telephone. No in person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but we're making every effort to ensure the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time. My technological means and I do want to remind everybody that this meeting is being recorded in both for visual and audio purposes. So with that, I want to just check to make sure that I remember the committee can hear and be heard. So, just going to order my screen, Bob Hegner. George Ryan. Jennifer Taub. That's the Lord. Okay. Well, thank you. And so, the agenda today starts with comments. So, I guess we need to just see if there's anybody in the audience at this point. And there is none. I might come back and see a public comment comes in later. The one person who had said she wanted to offer public comment is not here yet, but I did have one contact. So, then going on to the rest of the agenda. I had asked that we try and get to the question of the snow and ice bylaw, which Councilor Ryan had brought up as an issue that we ought to address. First, when I was putting the agenda together, I thought we were going to have a major snowstorm on Tuesday, which mercifully passed us by. But Rob Laura is here and the inspections department is the one that has been assigned the principal responsibility. And so, I guess maybe we should start out with Rob just telling us what has happened as far as the inspections department side of informing the public and enforcing his observations about compliance. Rob, hi. Morning, everyone. Yeah, so the bylaw was amended mid 2023 and assigned enforcement and responsibility to inspection services. Previous to that, we actually did have, you know, pretty usual involvement with sidewalks, but not during the winter months, more related to overgrowth of vegetation, typically in front of rental properties or some of the larger complexes that we would receive complaints for. So we were familiar with the bylaw and the intentions behind it. So this year, we had a more, we have a more active role in it. I talked with Guilford mooring leading into the winter season about, you know, how to respond to complaints or process complaints. And as you would imagine, typically complaints over the years had gone to public works department. So we we just set up a little internal understanding that any complaints received by public works, they would collect the information and forward it to us, hoping to not have the the resident or person making the complaint have it having to call two different offices. So that and that has worked. There's been examples of that that, you know, we've received directly from public works, but those who are aware of the change also knew how to get in touch with us. I've actually received myself emails, direct email or through inspection services general email complaints about six locations during the January 18 and January 30 timeframe for the two storms that we did have that resulted in accumulation on the sidewalks. In addition to that the code enforcement officer at Smith now who took over for john Thompson also receives complaints directly, and he had four additional locations are in that same timeframe so, you know, 10 or so complaints that we responded to this year so far that that we've made record of. It's primarily a complaint driven process, although we are taking the opportunity through our routine inspection of larger buildings or complexes or rental properties that we deal with regularly. So far, I know that Ed Smith has given information related to the bylaw to the fraternities and sororities because we are regularly inspecting those properties a couple times a year. He did make mention that he has done that. And the goal there is to make sure that their management plan and contract for those types of services include the sidewalk in front of the in front of the property. Our intention is to continue with that outreach whenever we have the opportunity but not, you know, it's not its own effort, it really is if we're doing something else related to the property. What's a COI certificate of inspection which is a regular routine inspection of certain types of establishments or apartment buildings. We pass the information along during those opportunities. And we'll we'll then look for, you know, what do we do next, you know, I have, I have definitely would like to have a better presence on the website for filing a complaint with inspection services. You probably all know we have a complaint. You know, place to file complaints but it's really kind of buried into the rental property residential rental property pages. So now that we have this bylaw to enforce, you know, I'd like to get a more general presence on the bylaw on the website for filing a complaint, you know, the various types. So that's something that I'll continue to work on with it and, you know, as as we can get that into the into the schedule for a priority. I'll also continue talking with DPW and property owners about another issue we have which is, you know, what to do about the heavy build up at intersections, crosswalks curb cuts that generally is left by snow plows but, you know, maybe a little bit heavier or more difficult for a homeowner to remove by shovel. So that's an ongoing conversation that we're, you know, we're asking the town engineer to help us figure out how do we handle that what would be a good protocol. Certainly properties that have services hired with equipment and rental property management are equipped to deal with that and have been responsive to that but there are cases where, you know, homeowners asking, you know, what do I do at this crosswalk and intersection where I've got this giant pile of snow built up from a snow plow. So we're continuing to work on that. Just overall closing generally the the response has been great. You know, you know, usually it's a surprise that there's a bylaw and a requirement that a homeowner or property owner, or tenant, you know, has the responsibility to deal with this but it's been a very good response and some of the situations that I mentioned this year, all, almost all of them have been resolved immediately in the same day typically. So happy to answer any questions I can. Thanks. Yes, I'll open it up to questions. Yes, Ryan. So, yeah, hopefully you can hear me. The experience has been not quite that it's not been it's been with residences actually it's not with rental properties. I walk up and down Amity Street on a regular basis a daily basis and during snowstorms. It's it's quite difficult and the offending folk are actually homeowners. When I get to town I find that the rental properties the sidewalk is cleared to the pavement. Between Dana Street and getting to downtown that's not the case homeowners simply aren't aware probably of the bylaw or simply don't don't pay attention to it. In at least one case I know the homeowners don't have the physical capacity to clear their their sidewalk. So, there's the issue of residences versus rental properties. So, the other issue we had at the at Amity and Lincoln was exactly a curb problem where the snow piled up and you couldn't cross basically the lovely flashing signs that have been put in which are great by the way. You couldn't get to them because there was snow in front and there's no homeowner there. It's really, you know, there's a rental property that set back a bit, maybe it'd be their responsibility but in that case I wouldn't have any idea who would be responsible because it's it's not clear who I guess would be the butter. So in this case I guess would be the rental property but it's so far from the property. I don't think they even realize that it's their responsibility. So, it's, I don't know, Rob, if you're it's residences, I guess is the issue for me and the fact that people either aren't aware or don't care. And at least in the center of town it's it's a real problem. Yeah, no, mine was more I did want to because I was on GO well last year which, you know, really asked that the enforcement be moved to inspection services so we really appreciate that you took it on. I guess it's I think it's in the right place now. I also I think you provided it before but it would be great to get to each counselor, I guess the link or to give to residents if they want to file complaints or report, because I apologize I sent to residents to you directly. So, I don't know if maybe the town manager could include it he might have in his town manager report next time is I would like to get that link out to residents so I'm not going to you directly. And in both the cases the residents that I heard from the concern I mean agree with George and I think that residents either don't know or I think many don't have the you know are physically able to remove the snow themselves. In both the cases where residents contacted me recently it was commercial properties. I think it was between, like, by triangle street and between you mass where there's a lot of foot traffic. So yeah again having the link would be really helpful thanks. Councilor. Thank you. I am having lived in apartments most of my life when I was at the ABC house as resident director, I got a knock on the door once because I didn't know it was my responsibility. Similar what Jennifer I mean and counselor Ryan are talking about. So I'm wondering if there's like a campaign we can do to let people know this is your responsibility. I know Amherst neighbors has been connecting like over there's 500 people that belong to that to connect with if you're unable to, you know, shovel your sidewalk there's a nice network there that maybe people can also tap into if they're unable but I think just making the public more aware somehow. So maybe snow alerts and remember the shovel your sidewalk I don't know but that might be helpful. Ryan your hand is still up and a few of orders. Yeah, just a direct question to Rob with the snow plowing. You know, with the smaller plows that do the sidewalks is there a simple way of simply having them not do what they do. You know, why do they pile it up there? Is it because there's no other place to put it? Is it because they're just in a hurry and they're just not thinking it would think I would think it'd be a place they could put the snow. So again, I'm thinking the Amity Lincoln intersection, which is the one example I know, but I'm sure there are others. Is it, why does that happen? I guess it's the question. Why is there a blockage? Yeah, so good, good questions and you know I'm also trying to figure that out as well and why I've asked to, to, you know, lean on Jason skills town engineer a little bit on this, because it's really, you know, they're much more familiar with snow removal in public ways. So I do want to have those conversations and try to understand a little bit better. I, you know, from what I gather there's a mix of both private and town contractors or trucks or equipment being used. So how do we determine the responsibility is going to be something that we'll need help with. I'll continue to try to get better information about that subject and come up with a way and how we respond to it. You know, other than that, I think, you know, the other comments are really helpful. Just so everyone knows we have really good ways to communicate with rental property owners. We don't for the general resident, you know, residents, homeowners, unless they happen to have had a building permit or something through our office. So in the past when we've tried to reach out to that, that group of owners, it's typically done through the tax bill or some other, you know, way that maybe our communications coordinator can help, you know, come up with a way to get that information out there. I'll definitely talk with Angela Mills about that and see if there are any other creative ideas on how to get that information out to the non rental property owners that we can reach pretty easily. Yeah, George. Do you find that if you have a residence that's an issue that they respond fairly quickly or do you do even I mean does does Ed actually go and knock on the door and say hi. Mr Jones, you notice that your sidewalk is completely icy and covered with snow and it's your responsibility to clear it or is it by letter or is it that because as you said, you're able to reach the rental properties probably pretty easily directly. What's the process for a homeowner say living on Amity Street I can think of about six or seven that don't do anything when there's just no storm, and if someone files a complaint comes to your department. What then happens next with the resident. Yes, if we receive a complaint and it's very precise to a property, you know and sometimes we don't sometimes we get I think maybe Jennifer mentioned you know one of the complaints was on North Pleasant Street between triangle and UMass so we had to go out there and actually find the areas that needed maintenance but if we know exactly the location or have a picture that's sent with us will will first try to find a contact for that property owner. We might have a building permit on record with with either email or phone number and we'll reach out to the owner that way. If not, will knock on the door. That's exactly what Ed will do, or another building inspector, you know these are, these are, you know, responses that are kind of fit in between our other work that you know everybody here does have a full schedule every day so we'll split up if we've you know there was a day where I think I got three or four specific locations by email. You know we'll look at which inspectors are going in which direction and ask them to, to take a look at it and then again you know there's a follow up that's needed and to make sure that it's been taking care of. We have one situation during that, you know January 18 to 30 timeframe where it took a couple extra days to get one of the locations in compliance, because they were waiting for their service contractor to show up. But the rest of them, you know have been very responsive homeowners and rental property management or owners. Yeah, Rob, if you go to a house, you know, a private residence and the people say we'd like to do it but we just can't physically do it. What is the town what was the response to that situation. So I haven't I haven't dealt with that yet so you know I haven't had that situation. We carry the bylaw when we make that that visit we explain the owners responsibility and we ask that will ask them to come up with a solution. And it's part of the conversation I want to have with public works what are the other resources available, you know, in, you know, cases where, you know, an owner either can't afford or physically cannot perform the cleanup that's needed and that's something I want to be prepared for, you know but we don't. We haven't had to have that situation occur yet and we don't have a clear answer on how to deal with that I don't know how public works dealt with it in the past again those are those are questions that I have to try to get better answers to it is Jason though who's the one to talk to it. Maybe we should be asking these questions also of public works. Yeah, Jason's are pretty regular contact of public works for coordination between inspectors inspectors so we have a joint inspection meeting we call it every two weeks, and Jason and sometimes Amy joins depending on the subject but Jason's are regular in regular attendance fire department police and our our staff health and other inspectors so you know that's where these types of questions come up and, and it's I think it's on today's agenda actually that they're going to start talking about this but you know that's a place where we usually, you know, work on these these matters as a group. Okay, so Jennifer. I'm just sort of. I don't know curiosity item or whatever but I've had residents say why doesn't the town clear the sidewalks. And I just happened within last week I came across an article that actually it's a state of Massachusetts thing that Massachusetts says residents property owners are responsible for clearing the sidewalks by their property. So it's not just if you're asked it's not an Amherst decision as such Amherst isn't reneging on providing services. No plows that do some sidewalks. And it's always been a little bit unclear to homeowners and others as to why they choose the streets they choose and how often they do it or how quickly they do it because it's limited by their physical capacity. And you're talking about sidewalks. Yeah. George. Yeah, just listening to our conversation and thinking about it. Something for the committee to think about it. It's. We might want to invite Jason or someone from DPW and talk a little bit more about the challenges they face. It does seem to be sort of falling between two stools and that just maybe the nature of things. But that's something for us to think about. I'm also picking up on Hollis comment earlier that. This maybe the real if we really want to address this and this again is for the committee to talk about we don't need to keep Rob here for this, but. We might want to look at at a more grittier level. Neighbor to neighbor what can be done through outreach. We are the town services and outreach committee. I'm never quite sure what outreach really means for this committee, but. This might be 1 area we could talk a little bit about what we might do better in communicating this to the community, particularly to our constituents. I know in my street amity the street that I walk all the time could be a test case for the kind of issue with residents. I get the sense that Rob and his folk deal pretty well with the rental properties where there's an issue. They know how to handle it. But with residents, it's really going to be a challenge. And as Bob mentioned, you've got issues of people like, I know I have a neighbor right around the corner. They physically can't do it. You know, the old days used to have these big boxes. I'm sure Rob remembers this. I always like that. You just go down to the corner of the street, get mounds of sand and spread it these days. It's not quite so easy. But anyway, I think something for us to talk about later this morning or at some point what we can do better in terms of outreach and maybe practically. To help address this at the individual level instead of expecting inspections and DPW to solve it. I think we have a role here too. Okay. Last question is, is there anything in the bylaw that you wish was different or you would recommend that we visit? No, not really. I mean, I think it, you know, the title is always the question, you know, in question, because I think we probably deal with just as much of the obstructions in the, you know, the with vegetation that grow within leaves being deposited. So I think, you know, as we get another, you know, maybe a full year or a little bit more experience with it. It's a little harder to find in the bylaw for the that reason because it's listed under snow and snow and ice, but it actually is obstruction of the sidewalk so that sometimes has been a surprise. And we've, you know, cited the bylaw. But otherwise, I think at this moment we're, you know, we're pretty clear about what it says and really don't see any need for any changes. Thanks. Jennifer. Yeah, that's interesting this to well last year changed it to snow and ice removal or the snow and ice and obstruction of the public way. But since snow and ice comes first. You're right. If you're looking for obstruction. That's not where you're going to look. And it's just thought we were being so thorough by changing it to include nice and obstruction. It is, it is listed in the index and the title of the section as snow and ice. And as you know, you get into the you get into the other obstructions as you read right now but that's a good point because. Yeah, so I can it be listed someplace I don't know listed in two different sections, but we can discuss that another time. So I'm looking actually at it. I'm sorry Athena. No, Andy. Yeah. It's the title was changed to obstruction of public ways and snow and ice removal. Perhaps that didn't get updated in the general bylaws Rob, but that's the full title is obstruction and snow and ice removal. Is that what you were referring to. It was what I was referring to and maybe that's just a, you know, a way the document was created because it doesn't read that way or it's not printed that way. I'll check with Sue and see if that was a something that she missed when she was updating the general bylaws. Yeah, the draft I'm looking at says obstruction of public ways and snow and ice removal. But something must have changed. And that we should I think that's a good way it should read actually that that's what we changed it to. You changed it to obstruction of public ways and snow and ice removal. Yeah, it used to just be, I think snow and ice removal and changed it. That's what it is then and that's what it should be. And I think that if she can look into it, that'd be great. I just want a quick question and if I could about vegetation. And we again on Amity, there are a couple of properties that their hedges obstruct even they don't obstruct the way that they come well out into the public way. And so I don't know what the what the decision is what I would ask them to cut their heads should be removed back to the outside of the public way. Two people can't walk by in couple places. The sidewalk is so damaged that you actually have to walk. You have to leave the sidewalk because the hedge projects out. And then the sidewalk is recessed. It's collapsed. So, I guess someone files a complaint. It's been done actually a couple times, but nothing has happened. Does it actually have to block it completely. Is it is it any kind of presence in the public way with vegetation. Yeah, it's not removal of any vegetation in the public way. It has to be the inspector looking at it determines if it's blocking access and use of the sidewalk. And then it would be we would ask for the vegetation be trimmed back to an appropriate length to allow the use of the sidewalk to occur. Oh, this point. I was going to check on the title of the bylaw we might want to reach out to Jason that some point to come. And because we want to have him come to a meeting anyway to talk about the issues having to do with speed limits and how speed limits are set and some other issues that we might come up with. But as we reach into some of the DPW issues, so we could come back to it at that point also. I think that I will work on when I do the next report for the council meeting. I'll send you the draft entire committee to comment on, but I think the point that we want to raise is the importance of informing the public about the existence of the bylaw and the enforcement mechanisms. There are complaints. So, and encourage counselors to help with that through district meetings and other communications that we have in addition to what we might consider next year for that goes into publicity as we get into the season. I'm not sure whether we should pick on it this year to try and encourage more outreach. It should be the only question. We fear that one more major storm and enough though we want to do that. Seeing no further. Rob, thank you. This has been helpful to get a sense of what the nature of the problem is and what you have been able to do in inspections and thank you for your hard work on it. I know you're making great effort and I think we on behalf of our constituents. Thank you. Have a good day. Thank you. Thank you. So I noticed that there's one person in the public who has joined us and I don't know it's a phone number if that individual had been wanting to make public comment. I think the mechanism what is it star nine. Raise your hand. When you're on the telephone call. Yes star nine to raise your hand. So I don't I don't see raised hand coming up. So that individuals I'm assuming is listening in but not wishing to offer public comment. Yeah, I just wanted to follow up very briefly on Rob's presentation and our conversation. I'm wondering if others feel as I do that there is a role for this committee to play and we're not going to resolve it today. But I this is something I hear a lot of complaints about. At least where I live. And you know what what world we can play terms of both getting the message out, maybe working with Amherst neighbors. And the issue also of people who simply don't have the physical capacity to do it. Inspections is not going to do it for them. DPW is not going to do it for them and they can't do it. And I know at least one couple that lives on Amity that can't do it. They could hire someone. But it's the kind of small job that you know somebody will come with his plow and clear your driveway. But it's pretty tough to get somebody then to get out of their truck and spend 10 minutes cleaning a sidewalk that they're not going to make very much money doing that. So I don't know the answer to this. I'm not sure we want to spend a lot of time on it, but I don't want it to pass without at least some thoughts from the rest of you if you have any about how we might proceed. I don't want to wait a year and address this next year. If we have some thoughts on how we might go about doing it. Yeah, I thought an observation that Jennifer has her hand up to. And that is that we are having a changing population in the town. And so we're becoming an older population with fewer kids. And 20 years ago, the kids who came around saw this opportunity to make money. They don't have that as much anymore. It's rare. And so it's hard for an aging population with fewer kids to figure out what the resolution on this is going to be. Jennifer. Yeah, I was just going to suggest, you know, putting. Well, putting the link to, to the that brought to the inspections department, if you have, do you want to report a sidewalk that needs to be cleared. But also, you know, we can just reach out to our district constituents talk about district meetings and in newsletters that it is the responsibility of the property owner. And also maybe to say, like, you know, we, we used for the woman who lived across the street since passed away, but we always cleared her sidewalk because she couldn't do it. I mean, if neighbors could just help help neighbors and put that out there. It's a pretty grass roots, but it might, you know, make some kind of a dent. So again, you know, I think if all of us can reach out to our mailing list, that would be a place to start. And I think Amherst neighbors is also a great idea. Yes. Okay. I mean, that's the kind of thing that I was thinking that I would work in the draft of the committee report as we are trying to communicate our fellow fellow counselors on that, and then get your comments on the draft. So it'll be better after you your comments. George. Does anyone know how you reach Amherst neighbors? Is there, I mean, obviously there's a website you could, I guess maybe just go on it and send a question. But is there someone that one can talk to about this? Or is it just a matter of joining the community forum and raising the question and seeing what comes back? I don't use the site. I'm aware of it. Does anyone have any familiarity with it or how it works constantly? Yeah. I actually don't, but I know someone who about another matter said that, you know, she could get to someone who does the posting. So are there, it's just, I don't know if this person thought if there's a board of Amherst neighbors and I know that there's a board of Amherst, the North, excuse me, District one neighborhood association works closely with Amherst neighbors. So it might just be, I mean, I'm happy to find a contact person and bring it back to TSO. I recently became a member of Amherst neighbors after a meeting with Dr. Romney and Carly Tartakov. So I could easily be a liaison or bring messages and connect us with them. It's great. Yeah, I just be curious what they would think about this if they think they have a role and how it would work. Yeah, that would be interesting. Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate it. So, moving on. The Amherst College was referred to us at the last meeting the sign. And I did not ask Amherst College to send anybody at this meeting. I thought that what we wanted to do was to get it on the first agenda possible just so that we could have a conversation ourselves about what we think are the primary issues and the questions that we want to raise with Amherst College and other things that we might want to think about in order to come to recommendation about the sign that they wish. And it, because it was sort of a free flowing conversation at the council. It was a good conversation, but it raised lots of issues. It didn't prioritize issues or do anything of that nature. And I was hoping we could do a little bit more. Think about things that we want to look at one additional recommendation that was made. Came through Paul and who's not able to join us today because he has a conflict meeting. I thought Dave Somack would be here, but Dave is not. The. And that was this weather. We might also want to consider that saying the Amherst College at some point. If you wish to put up the sign, we would like you to do something for us. And one of the things that came up in that in that brief exchange was if there are any signs that we would like them to put on their land at any point. Acknowledging that a town interest or pointing to downtown or something like that. So the people coming from the south and hitting the Amherst College campus would see a sign that we would like to have on their property. So those are the kinds of things that I think I would like to do so. George, do you have any thoughts on this? Well, what I remember and all this can help me here from the meeting and I don't have notes. I'm sorry. I've been away, but. Councilor Hanna key raised the question of the size of the sign. As I recall, and Councilor Rooney and Councilor Rooney was concerned about and I didn't understand it, but I didn't want to get into it at the meeting. But maybe some of you understood better that some of the sign might block the driver's vision when they were making a turn. And I didn't quite see, but that that was a second concern. And now Andy's raised the issue of quid pro quo. We have in our packet the reports from the various town boards and committees that have looked at it. And no one seems to have an issue with the look of the sign and the appearance of it. It seemed to be more a matter of the location, whether it could possibly block vision. And secondly, the size of the sign. I personally, we can talk about this. I know that I'm not too keen on a quid pro quo. And I, you know, they've done a zillion signs and this is the last sign. And I think more important discussions are happening at a higher level in our relationship with the college. And I think this is an opportunity for us simply to, you know, help them. This is, I think, the most important sign for them. And it represents, I think, an important connection between the college and the town. So, I don't people have thoughts about the size of the sign. I don't. Anyone have thought about blocking the vision. I don't understand that problem. I think it wasn't. It may, it may have been the size of the sign. I think we'd have to ask Pam. But I think that the word that she was using was distraction. I don't know whether this. There are so many signs that that intersection. Yeah, I know, but distracting away from other signs. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I think I raised the issue about distraction that, you know, people will be coming up North Hampton road will be fixed on the, the sign their, their eyes would be drawn to the sign. I guess all the other signs that they might want to make a left turn or whatever. That's all. I mean, I just, I do think the sign itself is probably a little too big. But I don't have an issue with putting a sign there the way that they want to put there. I think we just need to make sure it's not overwhelming. For the space. And I, I did walk by that there. And there's a tree. That's very close to where they want to put the sign. And I don't know whether it would interfere with the tree or not. So, I think we need to just be thoughtful of those things. Sorry to interrupt. Yeah, I thought both Councilor Hannity and Rooney were concerned about this, the size, maybe less visually than it actually blocking it. And that's where we would need Jason's input that they felt it could actually block visibility. I mean, I think that was the greater concern. And there is a concern is the sign going to have an arrow or something indicating that the sign is not on Hampshire college. I mean Amherst College property. That would there be any confusion that the college starts there. I guess it is to land. It's, it's part of our common. It is. That's one of those peculiarities is it's still south of college street. So, yes, but it's not part of I mean you've not when you see that sign you're not then on Amherst College property, or on the campus. Yeah. It looks like that's where the college starts. That's correct. I don't know that doesn't that seems problematic. I think that if I may. There's really no other place to put it if you put it back. I mean, it basically what I think the sign represents is the long and deep. History and connection between Amherst College and Amherst, the town. And it's meant to catch the eye of someone entering the community. And you're right. It's not actually on top college land. It's on town land. And we could say, okay, it's got to be moved. Can't be there. It's town land. And that they, you know, I don't see the logic of that. It's, you know, but yes, it's actually on our land. And so the issue that's why it's here. That's why it's before us. Will we give them permission to put it there? I think we should. I think given the larger issues that are going on right now. In terms of the future of the town, it's economic. And, you know, status and so forth and negotiations between the town manager and the college. This is a place where we can make a gesture. That I think would be appreciated by the college. Would also reflect, as I've said now a couple of times, the strong connection between the college and the town. It's an attractive sign. Perhaps we should have someone come and just confirm for us. There's not going to be an issue in terms of visibility. Because I don't think we can determine that. I don't think it will be, but we probably should have someone who knows that Jason or someone can tell us your name. And I'm sure that the college would, would move it or do something to adjust if that were the case. But I don't think it makes sense to making me sure about the fact that it's technically not college land. I don't think that would be very productive and could be. Yeah, I've always wanted to ask. Maybe I should next time we have a conversation with them. Ask them why they think people are having problems figuring out that that's where the camp where the campus is. Everybody knows that there's the Amherst College and I think the people are looking for the college know, know where they're going. Jennifer. Yeah, it's not that it's, I don't want it on our land. I'm not, you know, this isn't the issue I want to die on but it, if I was driving into town, I didn't wasn't familiar with Amherst, I would think that's where the college started that's what's confusing and I do share your question. Andy, it has there been confusion about where the colleges, but if you're coming to Amherst, certainly for the first time you think, you know, that's where the college begins so that just seems a little odd to me. But out there we, we have a major deficit at the school. It would be nice if Amherst College helped out to be part of the conversation. Yeah, it was part of Pam's concern. I may have, I think she said, may have said something like she didn't want to do anything that would discourage just non college people from thinking that that's land that they can use for recreational purposes. And that's what the danger of the signed in the indication, the impression that it's the beginning of the campus. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if an arrow would be unsightly or something but there should be an indication that I think the purpose of the sign is to let you know that if you keep going down the road you'll get to Amherst College. But, you know, that actually does look like that's the college where it begins. George. Think about this before me. Bob. Yeah, I looked at the other signs that they have. And they're basically signs on polls that are like little flags saying, you know, Amherst College entrance here. It seems to me that that would be a way for them to identify that this is where the college begins they could put them on, you know, both on route nine and on 116. And I don't see that this is necessary. I mean, I don't have a, I'm kind of with Jennifer, I don't think I would die on my sword for this. But I do think it doesn't need to be there. And I agree with the comments that if this is town, you know, town land, people should feel that this is their town land and they can go there and and use it without getting permission from Amherst College. So, that's all. So, is there any purpose in asking Amherst College to come in and giving them the opportunity to talk to us about this issue before we make a recommendation? If I may. Go ahead. Certainly, we can do that. I don't have a problem with that. Just, I've lived in the center of town for 36 years. And I walk the common in this area of almost every day. And I have never seen that space used ever by anybody, picnicking, whatever, students, out of towners, anybody, it's never been used for any kind of public, you know, fair or anything like that. Partly because of Route 9. Imagine crossing that road if you took some kind of event and wanted to have it. So, it's a space that essentially de facto has become associated with the college, but in a matter of actual ownership that belongs to the town. The second thing I'd like to say is that, you know, we have now a college president and people at the college talking seriously about becoming more engaged and active with the town. Perhaps with our schools, with our downtown business. I don't see the point of making a big issue about this. This is a place marker for them. It's meant to obviously to say to people here is Amherst College. Jennifer's correct. It's actually not there. It's about 50 or 60, whatever it is, 150 feet further back. So we could say, no, you can't have it there because that's not actually where the college begins. But that is the place where it should be in terms of, you know, as a place marker, acknowledging the connection with the college in the town. So I would really strongly urge us to think hard about whether we want to make a big issue out of this. Or even a small issue out about this at a time when we're hoping that Amherst College is going to be receptive to a more supportive and engaged relationship with the town. So that's, I guess, the thought is just, do we really want to make a big issue out of this? When we're trying to do things at a higher level that I think would much more important to the town and its future. Councilor Lord. Not to repeat exactly what counselor Ryan said, but exactly until I was on this committee, I always thought that was Amherst College's property. It didn't really faze me. And then I've been hearing about how like Williams College has pledged $5 million for a firehouse in their town. And I'm excited about how we might engage with the different universities. Again, I know it's been attempted and some has happened but so if we have a generous spirit, or if we're expecting a generous spirit from the others, I would either like to lead with a generous spirit, not quid pro quo, just, you know, from a kind place, even though I don't necessarily understand like our land, their land. That's a whole nother thing, but yeah, and I can't, I think it's a great place because you just come up the hill. I'm thinking where else would they put that that would have as much power probably, I can't think of a place, not that it's our concern. But I just know that, like George said, we're hoping to increase engagement. They have really, they have access to some capital that could really benefit our town and their students. So, you know, I'm leaning towards, you know, maybe having someone from the college would help really explain their point of view and we want to, I don't know. Yeah, it could be helpful. Sorry. Thank you. Yeah, Jennifer. I just feel, so yeah, it's fine. Like I said, it's not the hill I want to die on but I just feel like I have to say the town and the college I've been here for a long time. And we're just at the point where we're hoping to engage them to support the town it's long overdue. I just have to say that. You know, as far as the signs are concerned, which would really think you want to do is to have pointing direction but it can't be directional pointing sign because it's both directions and it would really be weird to have a sign with an arrow in both directions on the sign. As far as the quid pro quo, I think that probably that's what I would be intrigued. I think might be helpful. It might not be a big problem for the colleges to have a sign so that people who are coming up Pleasant Street from the south. If we had an additional place. Find your sign that said Amherst downtown straight ahead is similar to what is up at the roundabout in Hendrick Park. You know, it might be helpful to do that and we might want to talk to Chris Brester and ask her, but she's known has been kind of overseeing the way finder signs. The town whether it would be helpful for the purposes that they had identified in the way finder signs to have that additional sign. You know, you know, it's a small, it's a small ask doesn't necessarily know that even needs to be connected that you can probably ask the college that question, even without the sign, the big sign that they want. But as far as the distraction is concerned, we can ask Jason that question, but I think that the odds are that it's not going to be an issue. So, Jennifer. Yeah, and do I would imagine that Jason's working with Amherst college just to ensure that the concern about the sign obstructing any visibility. Should we assume that that that between the professionals, they will ensure that there's no obstruction of visibility. Probably can ask him, but yeah, I think we'd want we'd want to confirm that with him. It could be done either by having him here or we could have the chair just reach out confirm it. But I think you're right. We should confirm it. It was raised by a counselor and it's a legitimate question. So I think we could get an answer. It doesn't necessarily mean he has to be here. But we should get an answer on that. What about the size of the sign is that people really worried about that I, you know, I mean, yeah, right. Exactly. I don't. Yeah. So, I mean, one counselor expressed concern about it. I don't have a concern about it unless it's visibility and that can be answered by Jason. And also the distraction issue could be answered by Jason. So, why don't we just make some inquiries with Jason and maybe with as far as the quid pro quo question. Ask Chris whether it would be helpful to have an additional way finder sign pointing to downtown similar to the Kendrick Park sign. Coming from the, so the people coming from the south window, they're heading in the right direction. And if she doesn't think that that's important, then it's not worth pursuing. And leave it at that. The other issue that was on the agenda today was the area of a report and our immediate goals. And I guess there are a couple of things I want to just report on. I asked Mandy. About the. What's going on with the lighting proposal and whether she has heard anything from DPW and she has had one conversation with DPW. That they would like to have a meeting set up so that their contractor that provides the lighting fixtures to the town can meet with Mandy and the two council co-sponsors. And Mandy said that she does not think that we need to put this as a high priority because they would want to have that meeting and see how that works out beforehand. And she would like to see it done. Something done within this term of the council, but she doesn't feel it has to be a pressing issue. So that was one and Jennifer raised a question with me and that I discussed briefly with Athena, which was why the participatory budgeting put our direction. And there's a little bit of, you know, we need to have, it's a conversation that should be in the public meeting and it was referred, why it was referred in 2021 to this committee as opposed to another committee as probably like many of the things that there's no place it was obviously this is the perfect place for it and so you end up probably will end up looking for just a referral because it's got to go to some place. It ended up with us. It is an issue that was in the charter. So we did commissioners appointed and did a lot of work and putting together their report. So I think we need to give at least some response. George. I'm wondering why we just don't table it. I personally don't see any point in spending time on it. There's no money for it. Economically, it's just, it's not practical. There is a mechanism for people to bring individual bring particular projects already. And in Cambridge places like that where they have, you know, huge budgets and large scale projects. Maybe this sort of thing makes sense, but I don't see the point of it. And I would, I would consider tabling it to a time. Indefinite just and not have to talk about it for the next couple of months, because we have much more important things to do. And maybe I'm a look person who feels that way, but otherwise we should put it on the agenda and have a long conversation about it. But I think we have a lot more important things to do. I don't hear anybody. Maybe I'll hear it now, but I don't hear anybody, you know, pounding the table saying something important. We've got to move it forward. I certainly haven't heard that from the council. And they just threw it to us. And my feeling is that at this point, I'm not hearing from the public. So why don't we just table it and move on to something else. I would suggest not, not acting on that right now, because it's not on the agenda as an action item. It's on the agenda for committee goals and meeting plans. So I would suggest if you're asking the committee to make that sort of recommendation that you wait until it's on an agenda, and then table tabling indefinitely would be a recommendation to the council to table it indefinitely. So why don't we with that one. Schedule it for an agenda, let the people know who served on the commission. This very budgeting commission that I think my gauge would be most likely one to be interested in meeting with us. I'm going to make the presentation and then if we end up with the motion that George was suggesting might be the appropriate motion that that come for discussion. When we, at that point, but we probably do need to have one more. We're reading where we take it up and put it on the agenda and look, people who were advocates for participatory budgeting, at least come forward. Sounds acceptable. Okay. Anything else Jennifer your hand is up. No, I was just saying it's interesting because you and your counselor Ryan were on the council in 2021 when it got referred because the last council session. Like I really don't know a lot, you know, it was not part of our convert. I don't recall it ever being part of the conversation. So, so it's obviously. And so it would be helpful to have members of that committee come in just because I think all the rest of us could actually, it would just be helpful to have a little update. Yeah, I mean you have to go back to the charter, the charter required that there be a participatory budgeting commission that looked into the issue. The council is required to make the appointment of the commission. And once they were appointed, they were in did the, you know, did their work with due diligence. Kathy might have been the one who is on the mission as a counselor. I'd have to go back and look. But I think that's right. You know, it was not, it wouldn't have been anything that the council would have come up with on its own. We came up with it because it's in the charter. They're trying to require we do it. I think at this point, there was no requirement that participatory budgeting be adopted. There was a requirement that we look into it. And I think at this point, it may be that. I would. George was saying is where we end up. But might be worth just closing it out because charter required it and it's sort of just been hanging there and it doesn't serve any purpose to leave it, leave it hanging. Athena. If you're not done with this part, I can wait. I was going to raise some other issues that are going to come up for TSO agenda item. I think we're done. Is anybody else have anything else to say about that. So let's see if we can find an appropriate time. The reason that I pushed this one that actually might want to push this one is that things like street lights and waste haul are requiring that we get in Henry street and others are requiring reports. What can we dispose of early. And it seems like two things we can knock off the list fairly quickly and have them out of the way so that we have time for those other issues that may take more time is just to get get them done. And then we don't have to think about them anymore. And they do we really want to leave them as to carry over for two years from now. We have to Amherst College would say no and they want to get it done and. As far as participatory budgeting, there's nothing to be gained. George and then you get back to Athena and the other issues. Yeah, just a question about the agenda. Are we still on item 5? And is Athena speaking to item 5 or are we going to upcoming agenda items? Is this. It kind of run together. I think it's okay. Because there are a host of things that in your summary that I appreciated very much that you gave us all from our 1st meeting. There are host of issues here that. You know, at some point, maybe not today, but some point we want to talk about how important they are to us what we'd like to look at or not look at. You mentioned street lights. There's the waste hauler bylaw. There's the transportation commission, the role of tack and TSO. There's our committee website and what we want to do with it. If anything, what we can do with it, what we'd like to do with it. So I'm just throwing some and then some other things that we're in that summary that I would think would be appropriate topics for 5. If not today at some point soon. Okay, let's come back to it. Let's see what Athena, what were you thinking of? I did want to make a note about the. Participatory budgeting requirements in the charter. The charter requires as part of that. Participatory budgeting commission that they propose a measure to the council that the council would act on and there's a timeline for the council to act on it. The commission didn't really pose a measure to the council. It was. You know, more wide ranging than that you'll see in the report. So I think that the. We could consider that. Disposed of in terms of the charter requirements. And then I also wanted to mention there are going to be some things coming to TSO. Probably from the council on the next couple of meetings. There are some public way issues that are coming up. Including some action on the North pleasant street pedestrian improvements that. That's in the carryover report. There was less urgency about dealing with those. Last year, but I think something, something is moving forward now. And so. We're going to be looking for some more information from Guilford mooring the. Superintendent of DPW in the next few weeks. There's also some town manager appointments coming. Probably March 4. So prior to March 4, we'll ask TSO to review those. And then. If there's a meeting before March 4. No, I don't, I'm not sure if there is a meeting before March 4, so they might have to. Yeah, I think the next TSO meeting is March 14. And then the council meeting was on the 18th. I know the town manager wanted those to go through TSO. So the timing might change. And then the transportation and parking commission. We've been waiting for the town manager and the chair of tax to create their proposal and get it to the council. We were expecting that for February 26. Now it's looking more like March 18 that that will come to the council. So it's been anticipating that come being referred to, to TSO. At that meeting so that could potentially go on the 28th agenda if it's ready on March 18. Okay. That's helpful. Thank you. I think the problem we were having at today's meeting, which is why I may want to draw it to close pretty quickly now is that. We scheduled the meeting, but we didn't really have an agenda ready for it. So we're trying to sort of use the summary of the meeting and a few quick items so we might be able to take off. And the Amherst college was thrown at us. But it was just timing Jennifer. I think it's appropriate time to bring it up, but at the last meeting. We asked towards the end of the last meeting and Paul was here. If we could have the waist taller RFI response report presented at the next meeting on March, I think it's 14th or 15th. And Paul seem, you know, wrote it down and took his head. Yes. So I just want to confirm that we will have that by the next meeting. That will be communicated. Yeah, I know. And as with many of these reports. We need to keep pressing for them, but we get them and we get them. I will, I will raise that issue with Paul and we need to check with continue to check with DPW. On a number of issues because the engineering report on Henry street. Is still out there and I think that we'll want to get to Henry street pretty quickly when we have. A report that actually we can act on. Right now we can't do anything. So that's where we're at. So I think that I need to check with DPW and I need to check with Paul. And the only other issue you raised, whether we want to continue talking about it was the. Question of website. The committee website. And I responded to George about that a little bit and an email. Basically. It seemed to me that I didn't have any clarity as to what the purpose of the website was. And why whether it would be appropriate for a committee to have. A website that was covering more issues than. They have covered by the committee. The other committees that. There's Athena manages them. And they contain our agendas and our packets and. Committee business for people who are interested in that. But other issues that the committee deals with. Don't. Don't have. Large presence, whether they be finance or. Zoning and planning issues, the finance committee and the. CRC. Don't make them part of their. Website they're handled else. Those issues. Are handled elsewhere within the town website. So. I little. Missed by George as to what the purpose would be. Being different with this website. This page than other page committee pages. It's a recent function to work. It's technology. We're the town services and outreach committee. We're kind of where the rubber meets the road. Most of the things that people complain about are concerned about. Sidewalk streets, potholes, lights. You know, senior services. Recreation fields. These are all services that town provides and. I've always seen this committee is kind of a. You know, to listen and hear what the residents are saying. About how well the town is doing with the services. Also, in terms of outreach, I don't see why it hurts to have. Links to certain things, at least that. As we learn today, it's not easy actually to find. How to make a complaint about. Snow and ice. And, you know, Rob is going to look into it, but it's been that way for a long time. And I don't think it's probably near the top of his priority list. It would be a simple matter for us simply to have that link. There's also a link to the list of streets, the sort of the, the paving. List. In terms of the quality of streets. And if you took a look at the town manager's recent. List of streets there to be paved and you compare that to the. The map there, that site that shows what streets are in what condition. The red streets are the most seriously damaged. There's a correlation. I just think that we could perhaps play a role in helping people. Better understand how things work. And how not only just how they work and also if they need to make a complaint. That's another way they can do it right now. It's not an easy thing. To, if you have an issue with snow or ice, for instance, or with a hedge. To figure out how to go about it. So I think perhaps this is a discussion for another meeting on an agenda item. But I do think there's a place for our website. And I'd like us to talk about it. Maybe not now, but at some point in the agenda. Future. Thank you. I would like to refer the committee to the committee's charge because that is very specific in terms of what the committee's responsive role and responsibility is in terms of outreach and. And town services, town services are administered by the town manager. And so the committee is really not advising the council about the administration of the town services provided by the town senior services or anything like that. So I would just. I would like to. To frame the committee's discussion in a way that makes it clear that. The committee isn't going to be advising the town manager about how to do his job. I also wanted to add that within the committee's charge is. To work with the community participation officers to engage the community. And I think that that could be a method that the committee can. To sort of get a sense of the outreach. Issues that you brought up George. And I think. That as Andy mentioned in his email. I don't know that people look at this might be a question that Angela can help answer as the. She's the executive assistant to the town manager. And one of our remaining community participation officers. I don't know if that's a good idea. I don't know if that's a good idea. I don't know if that's a good idea. Staffed a little thin at the moment. But I think we could ask. Her to come and speak with the committee about those types of outreach efforts. I don't know that people look to the TSO website to. Find that kind of information. But. I think it. It. Could be really useful to counselors to have. A document with links that they can refer their constituents to the TSO website. I think that's a great idea. I think that's a great idea. There's like, you know, where do I find this? How do I complain about that? I think that. That is a great idea. And TSO heard a presentation from. DPW staff. I want to say a year or two ago, Andy, you probably remember about. Paving roads and how roads. Right. So a link to that. Presentation might be helpful in that document. But if you're a member of the TSO page, or if that's the most. Or if maybe it lives on the council page as resources for constituents or something like that. But if the committee is open to that, we can. Ask the chair to put it on a future agenda item. And if you think it would be worth. Asking Angela to, to attend, to share her perspective. She's. Has great. Community involvement in ties with the community. I think that's a good perspective as well. Agreement that we should follow up on that. And with Angela. Because she noddy heads. Yeah, I see that the logic of perhaps putting it in a particular place on the council page rather than on TSO. I'd like to, if I may. Push back a little bit on. The thought that, you know, what our charges and what our role is. And. We're not trying to tell the town manager how to do his job. But I do think we have a role as a place where people can come to talk to us about. How successful or unsuccessful they feel. Town services are for them. And we listen. And it's a place for them to come and talk and communicate to us what they think is working and what they think isn't. I guess you could say they could take that to Paul as well. But I know they certainly can and they do. And maybe that is. But I just see a role for us in that. And if I'm missing something here, then I maybe need to be. Schooled, but. Don't others feel that this is a place where people can come. To talk to their, to a committee that deals with town services. About what they like or don't like about how our services are being done. And it's not that we're going to then tell Paul what he needs to do, but. I think an example would be the age of dementia study. This town is great at creating studies. They get out put on a shelf and they stay there. I would think that one thing we could do at some point. Is have committee members just look through the executive summary of that. And maybe also talk to. Members of the council on aging. About what they think is working what they think isn't. Don't have a role there. If. If a member wanted to go ahead, I can wait. There were other comments. See anyone. Well, I think that. Again, you. You need to look at the charge. The charge is very specific in terms of what the committee does and doesn't do. I think. From my perspective, it's. Within the purview ever. Every individual counselor to hear from their constituents and take that. Into consideration when they're asking the town manager questions and. Evaluating the town manager and so on. But getting into the provision of town services. Is. I think potentially crossing the line into the administration of town services rather than. Reviewing and making recommendations to the council on measures that may affect the provision of services to the community by a town department. I don't think anything that you've mentioned. Is a measure or comes as a measure. That affects the provision of services. They're all. You know. Instituting a. Policy or a plan for the senior center. On the age and dementia friendly. Issues. I think it's worth discussing more about what the committee can do in terms of those. Those kinds of things, but. I would just. Caution you to. Look at the charge. And. Consider how the committee's work can. Support the council in that way. And using the committee as a. A venue for residents to come and talk to counselors. I think might create the perception that that's the only place that residents. Can talk to counselors. Well, I would like this to be put on an agenda, a future agenda item. To have us talk about this at some. Greater length about what we can and cannot do. I don't see a problem. Well, I think we need to talk about it. So I would ask that it be put on a future agenda. Sooner rather than later. And I very much like to hear what my colleagues think. I mean, I may be the only one and. That's fine. Then I lose. But I do think there's a role for us here. And I think we just need to think about it. As a group. And. Take into consideration at the end of the point about the charge. We need to read it more carefully. But I do see this as a place. Where we can. Have conversations with constituents about town services. And as a committee. We can then. Just become better informed about what the town doesn't, doesn't do and how well it doesn't, doesn't do it. I think not only the seniors, but with our, our fields. Recreation. Where else does this take place? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Where else does this take place? I don't understand. Where else, where else does this take place? Jennifer and then I've, I'll come back to you. To what you just said, but Jennifer. I think that's a very good suggestion for it to be a. Future agenda item. So we can. Discuss this. I haven't been on TSO before, but it's. I mean, I think it is. You know, worth discussing. And could we, maybe this would be part of the discussion. I think we could. Have public. Hearings or what we call them forms. Could the, could the committee have a form where people can come and share their concerns and. Ask questions about town services. I know. You know, in CRC, we've had community forms. Yeah. I think that. I think that. Shallow any. In the last council did try and. Develop. A very complex process. Approach to. Dealing with what the outreach. Role is of the council. And. I think that it actually not to be. She, she made it so. Complex. That it was actually hard to get one's. I mean, it was. It was hard to get one's hands around it entirely, but. The thought was there and was through her work that. He actually did have some discussions in that direction. No, I've always felt that. The best we have is the district meetings. Is the place where you get real dialogue. And that's where we're going to be in public comment. Which can come to any committee on. Issues that are relevant to it. Planting issues. Get a good. They're going to be in public comment and they're not at council meetings or. CRC. Town services here, financial issues and finance. So. We'll try and work that on the agenda. We'll have a good time trying to figure out with Paul at the next, with the agenda plan is now. But what my thought was, is that we. I would try and as the next step. Map out. The meetings for this year and press. Ball and. D. P. W. on some of these reports that are coming. And then try and figure out. What is the logical order when we're going to get the reports back that enable us to move forward on all of the issues that we identified. Through the last meeting. And I will. Broaden this beyond website because I think it is. You were looking to the website to do something. Is being. Council. Contact point for people. In the community to raise questions about. Town services. So I might. Talk to George about reframing it that way a little bit. So is anything else that people have for today. Looking at the. There are the minutes to approve and some of the agenda items. It was a standard format for the agenda that came from the last TSO. And that's what that was. Jennifer. I just did have one question. Did last time last council session. Did TSO have a representative to tack? Or was it that the council had a representative. Or neither. I was. And. TSO. Well, what we had said was is that the council. When it appointed committee liaisons would try and have it be somebody from TSO. And I. Think that I would like to continue to have a. The liaison. Be somebody on our committee. But I'm not. Nominating myself for that role. But again, that would be for the council when we get to that. I don't want. I think it was done on the next agenda for the council as far as. Finishing out the. The assignments. We're waiting on a recommendation from GOL. It's in front of GOL first, they're meeting on the 22nd. So if they are able to make a recommendation at their meeting on the 22nd, then it will be on the council agenda for the 26. And GOL is working on. Which committees we should seek to have liaisons for. Ultimately, it's a council decision. So I'm assuming that GOL will recommend these are the committees that, that GOL thinks makes sense to have liaisons. But the council appoints liaisons. And so that'll be a ultimate decision and discussion at the council. Hopefully the 26. Okay. Thank you. So. I'm assuming the attack will be on. Because I. It's probably a question of what to add that put to subtract. And I would like to, I would hope that it will be somebody from this committee again, because of the natural connection. And I would urge all of you to consider whether you would like to take over that role. But I'm unwilling to do it. I think it would be better to have it be somebody other than the chair. George. So I'm just looking at my own notes here and thinking about future agenda items. I'm thinking particularly about March. We meet again on March 14. Is that correct? That's our next meeting. Yes. And yeah, I just tried it. We will have some town manager appointments. It sounds like. Yeah, I think that the big thing on the 14th is going to be. Why I can't come up with a specific item. I mean, I think. I would like to know if the engineering report is available for Henry street or. RFI is ready for presentation. Those are two major issues and. They will then take over. We won't know. Pardon me. The north pleasant street. Pedestrian improvements might be ready for March 14 as well. that we're expecting from DPW might be ready by then. If they're referred to TSO from the council, which I think is the expectation. Yeah. I mean, we're waiting for something from DPW about it because they have to decide that they actually have funds that they can make available within their budget to actually do the work. Now is where it was being put off. Right. Exactly. I think now they are ready to take next steps. They'll be looking for TSO to make a recommendation on, at least part of the plan that they've asked for approval. Would they be making a presentation to us, and then we would consider it, and at the next meeting we would act on it? We certainly are. We're going to just put something in the packet and then we would ask questions. How is this going to play out, or do we know? My expectation at the moment is that they will come from DPW. There's North Pleasant, which is already in front of TSO, and then there's two others that are going to come before the council probably March 4th. If those two others are referred to TSO at that time, then TSO can take them up at the meeting on the 14th. If the chair decides to put it on the agenda for the 14th. If that's the case, then the committee will have all the materials that the council saw to discuss, and I would expect that the DPW superintendent would be available to answer questions and have that discussion with the committee. Are we also going to invite Amherst College and Jason's skills to talk about the Amherst sign for the next meeting? Is that a possibility? Is that something that could be on the March 14th agenda? I'll just note it. It could be. We have some town manager appointments. We think we'll be on the agenda next time. Possibly. Good. In my own mind, just trying to get a sense of what's coming. We'd like to review the committee charge at some point, and again, that'll be up to the chair to decide when, but I'd like that sooner rather than later. We were talking about inviting Angela at some point to talk about the whole issue of outreach, our website, and just communicating with. Those are the items I'm seeing, and others may see others, but I'm not saying it'll all be an agenda on March 14th, but I'd like them not to get lost in the shuffle. As you think about, any of you look at the committee charge, if the recommendation wants to come from this committee to change the charge, then it has to go back through a process that involves to go well, and ultimately the council is all, we cannot change the charge ourselves. That's what I was going to speak to if it's okay, Andy. GOL chair Anna Devlin-Cothier, I believe she reached out to all the committee chairs asking that the committees put review of their charge on one of their upcoming agendas, so that GOL has that feedback and they do an annual review of the council committee organization. Okay, so we'll move that fairly quickly then. Thank you. So make that high and Jennifer. Do we agree that Jason's skills didn't have to come back to the committee and talk about the sign that you would talk to him? I'm just trying to think for efficiency's sake. We'll have to coordinate that through the town manager. Right. So I thought we agreed that if we could, it could be communicated to us that Jason's skills, feels that the sign is not obstructing vision for drivers, that he wouldn't have to come to the committee. I think that's probably. Yeah, there were two issues. One was the distraction issue and the other was the visibility issue. But yes, I think we agreed that if he could answer it without having be here, fine. I like to see him. Yes, if Paul had been able to be with us, he would have made notes on that so we will get notes to him on it. Good. Report to Paul about today's meeting and what it is we're looking for him to do. Is there anything else that we need to talk about today? If not, I think we should let ourselves go. No arguments there. During the meeting. Thank you. Thank you, Andy. Thank you all. Thank you. Thank you.