 The past two and a half years have seen a dramatic change in the security posture of virtually all organizations. By accelerating the digital business mandate, the isolation economy catalyzed a move toward cloud computing to support remote workers, this we know. This had several ripple effects on CISO and CIO strategies that were highly visible at the board of directors level. Now the first major change was to recognize that the perimeter had suddenly been vaporized. Protection as a result moved away from things like perimeter-based firewalls toward more distributed endpoints, cloud security, and modern identity management. The second major change was a heightened awareness of the realities of ransomware. Ransomware as a service, for example, emerges as a major threat where virtually anyone with access to critical data and criminal intentions could monetize corporate security exposures. The third major change was a much more acute understanding of how data protection needed to become a fundamental component of cybersecurity strategies. More specifically, CIOs quickly realized that their business resilience strategies were too narrowly DR focused, that their DR approach was not cost efficient and needed to be modernized, and that new approaches to operational resilience were needed to reflect the architectural and business realities of this new environment. Hello and welcome to Why Ransomware Isn't Your Only Problem, a service of theCUBE made possible by Dhruva and in collaboration with IDC. I'm your host, Dave Vellante, and today we're presenting a three-part program. We'll start with the data. IDC recently conducted a global survey of 500 business technology practitioners across 20 industries to understand the degree to which organizations are aware of and prepared for the threats they face in today's new world. IDC research vice president Phil Goodwin is here to share the highlights of the study and summarize the findings from a recent research report on the topic. After that, we're going to hear from Curtis Preston who's the chief technical evangelist at Dhruva. I've known Curtis for decades. He's one of the world's foremost experts on backup and recovery specifically and data protection generally. Curtis will help us understand how the survey data presented by IDC aligns with the real world findings from the field from his point of view. And he'll discuss why so many organizations have failed to successfully recover from an attack without major pains and big costs and how to avoid such operational disruptions and disasters. And then finally, we'll hear from the technical experts at Dhruva. Stephen Manley and Anjan Srinivas. Stephen is a 10-time CUBE alum and chief technology officer at Dhruva and Anjan is vice president and general manager of product management at the company. And these individuals will specifically address how Dhruva is closing the gaps presented in the IDC survey through their product innovation. And right now I'm going to toss it to Lisa Martin, another one of the hosts for today's program. Lisa, over to you. Feel good when joins me next, the VP of research at IDC. We're going to be breaking down what's going on in the threat landscape. Phil, welcome to the program. It's great to have you back on theCUBE. Hey, Lisa, it's great to be here with you. So talk to me about the state of the global IT landscape as we see cyber attacks massively increasing, the threat landscape changing so much. What is IDC seeing? You know, you really hit the top topic that we find from IT organizations as well as business organizations. And really it's that digital resilience that ransomware that has everybody's attention. And it has the attention, not just of the IT people, but of the business people alike because it really does have profound effects across the organization. The other thing that we're seeing Lisa is really a move towards cloud. And I think part of that is driven by the economics of cloud, which fundamentally changed the way that we can approach disaster recovery, but also was accelerated during the pandemic for all the reasons that people have talked about in terms of work from home and so on. And then really the third thing is the economic uncertainty. And this is relatively new for 2022, but within IDC we've been doing a lot of research around what are those impacts going to be? And what we find people doing is they want greater flexibility, they want more cost certainty, and they really want to be able to leverage those cloud economics to have the scale, upper scale down, on demand nature of cloud. So those are in a nutshell, kind of the three things that people are looking at. You mentioned ransomware. It's a topic we've been talking about a lot. It's a household word these days. It's now, Phil, no longer if we're gonna get to talk, it's when, it's how often it's the severity. Talk about ransomware as a priority all the way up the stack to the C-suite. And what are they trying to do to become resilient against it? Well, some of the research that we did is we found that about 77% of organizations have digital resilience as a top priority within their organization. And so what you're seeing is organizations trying to leverage things to become more resilient, more digitally resilient, and to be able to really hone in on those kinds of issues that are keeping them awake at night, quite honestly. If you think about digital resilience, it really is foundational to the organization, whether it's through digital transformation or whether it's simply data availability, whatever it might happen to be. Digital resilience is really a large umbrella term that we use to describe that function that is aimed at avoiding data loss, assuring data availability and helping the organization to extract value from their data. And digital resilience, data resilience as every company these days has to be a data company to be competitive. Digital resilience, data resilience, are you using those terms interchangeably or data resilience to find something a little bit different? Well, sometimes, yeah, that we do get caught using them when one is the other, but data resilience is really a part of digital resilience, if you think about the data itself in the context of IT computing. So it really is a subset of that, but it is foundational to IT resilience. You really, you can't have IT resilience without data resilience. So that's where we're coming from on it. And it's strictly linked and it's becoming a corporate initiative, but there's some factors that can complicate digital resilience, data resilience for organizations. What are some of those complications that organizations need to be aware of? Well, one of the biggest is what you mentioned at the top of the segment and that is the area of ransomware. The research that we found is about 46% of organizations have been hit within the last three years. You know, it's kind of interesting how it's changed over the years. Originally, being hit by ransomware had a real stigma attached to it. Organizations didn't want to admit it and they really avoided confronting that. Nowadays, so many people have been hit by it that that stigma has gone. And so really it is becoming more of a community kind of effort as people try to defend against these ransomers. The other thing about it is it's really a lot like whack-a-mole, you know? They attack us in one area and we defend against it. So they attack us in another area and we defend against it. And in fact, I had an individual come up to me at a show not long ago and said, you know, one of these days we're gonna get pretty well defended against ransomware and it's gonna go away. And I responded, I don't think so because we're constantly introducing new systems, new software and introducing new vulnerabilities. And the fact is ransomware is so profitable the bad guys aren't gonna just fade into the night without giving it a lot of fights. So I really think that ransomware is one of those things that is here for the long term and something that we have to address and have to get proactive about. You mentioned some stats there and recently IDC and Druva did a white paper together that really revealed some quite shocking results. Talk to me about some of the things. Let's talk a little bit about the demographics of the survey and then talk about what was the biggest finding there, especially where it's concerning ransomware. Yeah, this was a worldwide study it was sponsored by Druva and conducted by IDC as an independent study. And what we did, we surveyed 500 is a little over 500 different individuals across the globe in North America, select countries in Western Europe as well as several in Asia Pacific. And we did it across industries where 20 different industries represented they're all evenly represented. We had surveys that included IT practitioners primarily CIO, CTOs, VP of infrastructure, managers of data centers, things like that. And the biggest finding that we had in this Lisa was really finding that there is a huge disconnect I believe between how people think they are ready and what the actual results are when they get attacked. Some of the statistics that we learned from this Lisa include 83% of organizations believe or told us that they have a playbook that they have for ransomware. I think 93% said that they have a high degree or a very high degree of confidence in their recovery tools and are fully automated. And yet when you look at the actual results I told you a moment ago, 46% have been attacked successfully. I can also tell you that in separate research fewer than a third of organizations were able to fully recover their data without paying the ransom. And some two thirds actually had to pay the ransom. And even when they did, they didn't necessarily achieve their full recovery. The bad guys aren't necessarily to be trusted. And so the software that they provide sometimes is fully recovered, sometimes it's not. So you look at that and you go, wow, on the one hand people think they're really, really prepared. And on the other hand, the results are absolutely horrible. Two thirds of people having to pay the ransom. So you start to ask yourself, well, what's going on there? And I believe that a lot of it comes down to kind of reminds me of the old quote from Mike Tyson. Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. And I think that's kind of what happens with ransomware. You think you know what you're doing. You think you're ready based on the information you have. And these people are smart people and they're professionals. But oftentimes you don't know what you don't know. And like I say, the bad guys are always dreaming up new ways to attack us. And so I think for that reason, a lot of these have been successful. So that was kind of the key finding to me and kind of the aha moment really in this whole thing, Lisa. That's a massive disconnect with the vast majority saying we have a cyber recovery playbook, yet nearly half being the victims of ransomware in the last three years, and then half of them experiencing data loss. What is it then that organizations in this situation across any industry can do to truly enable cyber resilience, data resilience, as we said, this is a matter of, this is gonna happen, just a matter of when and how often? It is a matter of, yeah, as you said, it's not if when or how often it's really how badly. So I think what organizations are really doing now is starting to turn more to cloud-based services, finding professionals who know what they're doing, who have that breadth of experience and who have seen the kinds of necessary steps that it takes to do a recovery. And the fact of the matter is a disaster recovery and a cyber recovery are really not the same thing. And so organizations need to be able to plan the kinds of recovery associated with cyber recovery in terms of forensics, in terms of scanning, in terms of analysis and so forth. So they're turning to professionals in the cloud much more in order to get that breadth of experience and to take advantage of cloud-based services that are out there. Talk to me about some of the key advantages of cloud-based services for data resilience versus traditional legacy on-prem equipment. What are some of the advantages? Why is IDC staying this big shift to cloud where data resilience is concerned? Well, the first and foremost is the economics of it. You can have on-demand resources. And in the old days when we had disaster recoveries where we had two different data centers and a failover and so forth, you had double the infrastructure. If you're financial services, it might even be triple the infrastructure. It was very complicated, very difficult. By going to the cloud, organizations can subscribe to disaster recovery as a service. And increasingly what we see as a new market of cyber recovery as a service. So being able to leverage those resources, to be able to have the forensic analysis available to them, to be able to have the other resources available that are on-demand and to have that plan in place, to have those resources in place. I think what happens in a number of situations, Lisa, is that organizations think they're ready, but then all of a sudden they get hit. And all of a sudden they have to engage with outside consultants or they have to bring in other experts. And that extends the time to recover that they have. And it also complicates it. So if they have those resources in place, then they can simply turn them on, engage them and get that recover going as quickly as possible. So what do you think the big issue here is that these IPT practitioners, over 500 that you surveyed, across 20 industries, this is a global survey, do they not know what they don't know? What's the overlying issue here? Yeah, I think that's right. You don't know what you don't know. And until you get into a specific attack, there are so many different ways that organizations can be attacked. And in fact, from this research that we found is that in many cases, data exfiltration exceeds data corruption by about 50%. And when you think about that, the issue is once I have your data, what are you gonna do? I mean, there's no amount of recovery that is gonna help. So organizations are either faced with paying the ransom to keep the data from perhaps being used on the dark web or whatever or simply saying no and taking their chances. So best practice, things like encryption, immutability, things like that that organizations can put into place, certainly air gaps, having a solid backup foundation to where data is, you have a high probability of recovery, things like that, those are the kinds of things that organizations have to put into place, really is a baseline to assure that they can recover as fast as possible and not lose data in the event of a ransomware attack. Given some of the disconnect that you articulated, the stats that show so many think we are prepared, we've got a playbook yet so many are being attacked, the vulnerabilities and as the landscape, threat landscape just gets more and more amorphous. What do you recommend organizations do? You talked to the IT practitioners, but does this go all the way up to the board level in terms of, hey guys, across every industry, we are vulnerable, this is going to happen, we've got to make sure that we are truly resilient and proactive. Yes, and in fact, what we found from this research is in more than half of cases, the CEO is directly involved in the recovery. So this is very much a C-suite issue. And if you look at the consequences of ransomware, it's not just the ransom, it's the loss productivity, it's the loss of revenue, it's the loss of customer faith and goodwill. And organizations that have been attacked have suffered those consequences and many of them are permanent. So people at the board level, whether it's the CEO, the CFO, the CIO, the CISO, whoever it is, they're extremely concerned about these and I can tell you they are fully engaged in addressing these issues within their organization. So all the way at the top, business critical for any industry, I imagine some industries may be a little bit more vulnerable than others, financial services, healthcare, education, we've just seen big attack in Los Angeles County. But in terms of establishing data resilience, you mentioned ransomware isn't going anywhere, it's a big business, it's very profitable. But what is IDC's prediction where ransomware is concerned? Do you think that organizations, if they truly adopt cloud and status-based technologies, can they get to a place where the C-suite doesn't have to be involved to the point where they really actually have a functioning playbook? I don't know if we'll ever get to the point where the C-suite is not involved. It's probably very important to have that level of executive sponsorship. But what we are seeing is, in fact, we predict that by 2025, 55% of organizations will have shifted to a cloud-centric strategy for their data resilience. And the reason we say that is, workloads on-premises aren't going away, so that's the core. We have an increasing number of workloads in the cloud and at the edge, and that's really where the growth is. So being able to take that cloud-centric model and take advantage of cloud resources like immutable storage, being able to move data from region to region inexpensively and easily. And to be able to take that cloud-centric perspective and apply it on-premises as well as in the cloud and at the edge is really where we believe that organizations are shifting their focus. Got it. We're just cracking the surface here, Phil. I wish we had more time, but I had a chance to read the Dribba sponsored IDC White Paper. Fascinating finds. I encourage all of you to download that. Take a read. You're going to learn some very interesting statistics and recommendations for how you can really, truly deploy data resilience in your organization. Phil, it's been a pleasure to have you on the program. Thank you for joining me. No problem. Thank you, Lisa. In a moment, John Furrier will be here with his next guest. For right now, I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We live in a world of infinite data, sprawling, dispersed, valuable, but also vulnerable. So how do organizations achieve data resiliency when faced with ever-expanding workloads, increasing security threats, and intensified regulations? Unfortunately, the answer often boils down to what flavor of complexity do you like best? The common patchwork approaches are expensive, convoluted, and difficult to manage. There's multiple software and hardware vendors to worry about. Different deployments for workloads running on-premises or in the cloud, and an inconsistent security framework resulting in enterprises maintaining four to five copies of the same data, increasing costs and risk, building to an incoherent mess of complications. Now imagine a world free from these complexities. Welcome to the Druva Data Resiliency Cloud where full data protection and beautiful simplicity converge. No hardware, no upgrades, no management, just total data resilience. With just a few clicks, you can get started integrating all of your data resiliency workflows in minutes through a true cloud experience built on Amazon Web Services. The Druva platform automates and manages critical daily tasks, giving you time to focus on your business. In other words, get simplicity, scalability, and security instantly. With the Druva Data Resiliency Cloud, your data isn't just backed up. It's ready to be used 24-7 to meet compliance needs and to extract critical insights. You can archive data for long-term retention, be protected against device failure and natural disasters, and recover from ransomware lightning fast. Druva is trusted with billions of backups annually by thousands of enterprises, including more than 60 of the Fortune 500, costing up to 50% less than the convoluted hardware, software, and appliance solutions. As data grows and becomes more critical to your business advantage, a data resiliency plan is vital, but it shouldn't be complicated. Druva makes it simple. Welcome back everyone to The Cube and the Druva special presentation of why ransomware isn't your only problem. I'm John Furrier, host of The Cube. We're here with W. Curtis Preston, Curtis Preston as he known in the industry, chief technical evangelist at Druva. Curtis, great to see you. We're here at why ransomware isn't your only problem. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. Happy to be here. So we always see each other events now, events are back, so it's great to have you here for this special presentation. The white paper from IDC really talks about this in detail. I'd like to get your thoughts and I'd like you to reflect on the analysis that we've been covering here in the survey data. How it lines up with the real world that you're seeing out there. Yeah, I think it's the survey results really, I'd like to say that they surprised me, but unfortunately they didn't. The data protection world has been this way for a while where there's this difference in belief or difference between the belief and the reality. And what we see is that there are a number of organizations that have been successfully hit by ransomware, paid the ransom and or lost data. And yet the same people that were surveyed, they had high degrees of confidence in their backup system. And I could probably go on for an hour as to the various reasons why that would be the case. But I think that this long running problem that as long as I've been associated with backups, which has been a while, it's that problem of nobody wants to be the backup person and people often just they don't wanna have anything to do with the backup system. And so it sort of exists in this vacuum. And so then management is like, oh, the backup system is great because the backup person often might say that it's great because maybe it's their job to say so, but the reality has always been very, very different. It's funny. You know, we're good, boss. We got this covered. Good, so good. The fingers crossed, right? So again, this is the reality and as it becomes backup and recovery, which we've talked about many times on theCUBE, certainly we have with you before, but now with ransomware, also the other thing is people get ransomware hit multiple times. So it's not only like to get hit once. So, you know, this is a constant chasing the tail on some ends, but there are some tools out there you guys have a solution. And so let's get into that. You know, you have had hands on backup experience. What are the points that surprised you the most about what's going on in this world and the realities of how people should be going forward? What's your take? Well, I would say that the one part in the survey that surprised me the most was people that had a huge, you know, there was a huge percentage of people that said that they had a, you know, a ransomware response, you know, in readiness program. And you look at that and how could you be, you know, that higher percentage of people be comfortable with their ransomware readiness program. And, you know, which includes a number of things, right? There's the cyber attack aspect of responding to a ransomware attack. And then there's the recovery aspect. And so you believe that your company was ready for that. And then you go, and I think it was 67% of the people in the survey paid the ransom, which as a person who, you know, spent my entire career trying to help people successfully recover their data, that number I think just hurt me the most is that because you talked about reinfections, the surest way to guarantee that you get reattacked and reinfected is to pay the ransom. This goes back all the way to ransom since the beginning of time, right? Everyone knows if you pay the blackmail, all you're telling people is that you pay blackmail. You're in business, you're a good customer. A-R, for ransomware. Yeah, so the fact that, you know, 60, what, two thirds of the people that were attacked by ransomware paid the ransom. That one statistic just hurt my heart. Yeah, and I think this is the reality. I mean, look back, I mean, even the psychology of the practitioners was, you know, it's super important to get back and recover, and that's been around for a long time, but now that's an attack vector, okay? And there's dollars involved. Like I said, the A-R, I'm joking, but there's recurring revenue for the bad guys if they know you're paying up. And if you're stupid enough not to change, you're tooling, right? So, again, it works both ways. So I got to ask you, why do you think so many organs are unable to successfully respond after an attack? Is it because they know it's coming? I mean, they're not that dumb. I mean, they have to know it's coming. Why aren't they responding successfully to this? I think it's a litany of things, starting with that aspect that I mentioned before that nobody wants to have anything to do with the backup system, right? So nobody wants to be the one to raise their hand because if you're the one that raises their hand, you know, that's a good idea, Curtis. Why don't you look into that, right? Nobody wants to be responsible. Where's that guy now? He doesn't work here anymore. Yeah, but I hear what you're coming for. Exactly. Psychology. Yeah, so there's that. But then the second is that because of that, no one's looking at the fact that backups are the attack vector. They become the attack vector. And so because they're the attack vector, they have to be protected as much, if not more than the rest of the environment. The rest of the environment can live off of active directory and, you know, and things like octas so that you can have SSO and things like that. The backup environment has to be segregated in a very special way. Backups have to be stored completely separate from your environment. The login and authentication and authorization system needs to be completely separate from your typical environment. Why? Because if that production environment is compromised, now knowing that the backup systems are a significant portion of the attack vector, then if the production system is compromised and the backup system is compromised. So you've got to segregate all of that. And I just don't think that people are thinking about that. You know, they're using the same backup techniques that they've used for many, many years. So what you're saying is that the attack vectors and the attackers are getting smarter. They're saying, hey, we'll just take out the backup first so they can backup. So we got the ransomware. It makes sense. Yeah, exactly. The largest ransomware group out there, the Conti ransomware group, they are specifically targeting specific backup vendors. They know how to recognize the backup servers. They know how to recognize where the backups are stored. And they are exfiltrating the backups first and then deleting them and then letting you know you have ransom. Okay, so you guys have a lot of customers. They all kind of have seen this problem. What's the patterns that you're seeing? How are they evolving? What are some of the things that they're implementing? What is the best practice? Well, again, you've got to fully segregate that data. There are, and everything about how that data is stored and everything about how that data is created and accessed, there are ways to do that with other commercial products. You can take a standard product and put a number of layers of defense on top of it. Or you can switch to the way Druva does things, which is a SaaS offering that stores your data completely in the cloud in our account, right? So your account could be completely compromised. That has nothing to do with our account. And it's a completely different authentication and authorization system. You've got multiple layers of defense between your computing environment and where we store your backups. So basically what you get by default with the way Druva stores your backups is the best you can get after doing many, many layers of defense on the other side and having to do all that work with us, you just log in and you get all of that. I guess, how do you break the laws of physics? I guess that's the question here. Well, because that's the other thing is that by storing the data in the cloud, we do it. And I've said this a few times, that you get to break the laws of physics. And the only way to do that is time travel. So yeah, so Druva has time travel. And this is a courtesism, by the way. I don't think this is our official position, but the idea is that the only way to restore data as fast as possible is to restore it before you actually need it. And that's kind of what I mean by time travel. In that you basically, you configure your DR, your disaster recovery environment in Druva one time. And then we are pre restoring your data as often as you tell us to do, to bring your DR environment up to the current environment as quickly as we can so that in a disaster recovery scenario which is part of your ransomware response, right? Again, there are many different parts, but when you get to actually restoring the data, you should be able to just push a button and go. The data should already be restored. And that's the way that you break the laws of physics is you break the laws of time. Well, I had never wants to know the next question. And this is the real big question is, are you from the future? Yeah, very much the future. What's it like in the future? Backup recovery as a restore, is it air gapping everything? Yeah, well, it's a world where people don't have to worry about their backups. I like to use the phrase, get out of the backup business, just get into the restore business. I'm a grandfather now and I love having a granddaughter and I often make the joke that if I didn't known how great grandkids were, I would have skipped straight to them, right? Not possible. Just like this, recoveries are great, backups are really hard. So in the future, if you use a SAS data protection system and data resiliency system, you can just do recoveries and not have to worry about backups. Yeah, and what's great about your background is you've got a lot of historical perspective, seen that in the ways of innovation. Now it really is about the recovery and real time. So a lot of good stuff going on and automated things got to be rocking and rolling. Absolutely, yeah. I do remember again, having worked so hard with many clients over the years, back then we worked so hard just to get the backup done, there was very little time to work on the recovery. And I really, I kid you not that our customers don't have to do all of those things that all of our competitors have to do to try to break the laws of physics. I've been fighting the laws of physics my entire career to get the backup done in the first place, then to secure all the data, right? To air gap it and make sure that a ransomware attack isn't going to attack it. Our customers get to get straight to a fully automated disaster recovery environment that they get to test as often as possible and they get to do a full test by simply pressing a single button. And, you know, I wish that, I wish everybody had that ability. Yeah, I mean, security is a big part of it. Data is in the middle of it. All this is now mainstream, front lines, great stuff. Chris, great to have you on, bring that perspective and thanks for the insight, really appreciate it. Always happy to talk about my favorite subject. All right, we'll be back in a moment. We'll have Stephen Manley, the CTO and Anjan Srinivas, the GM and VP of Product Manager will join me. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in high tech enterprise coverage. Ransomware is top of mind for everyone. Attacks are becoming more frequent and more sophisticated. It's a problem you can't solve alone anymore. Ransomware is built to exploit weaknesses in your backup solution, destroying data and your last line of defense. With many vendors, it can take a lot of effort and configuration to ensure your backup environment is secure. Criminals also know that it's easy to fall behind on best practices like vulnerability scans, patches and updates. In fact, 42% of vulnerabilities are exploited after a patch has been released. After an attack, recovery can be a long and manual process that still may not restore clean or complete data. The good news is that you can keep your data safe and recover faster with the Druva Data Resiliency Cloud on your side. The Druva platform functions completely in the cloud with no hardware, software, operating system or complex configurations, which means there are none of the weaknesses that ransomware commonly uses to attack backups. Our software as a service model delivers 24-7-365 fully managed security operations for your backup environment. We handle all the vulnerability scans, patches and upgrades for you. Druva also makes zero trust security easy with built-in multi-factor authentication, single sign-on and role-based access controls. In the event of an attack, Druva helps you stop the spread of ransomware and quickly understand what went wrong with built-in access insights and anomaly detection. Then you can use industry-first tools and services to automate the recovery of clean, unencrypted data from the entire timeframe of the attack. Cyber attacks are a major threat, but you can make protection and recovery easy with Druva. Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's special presentation with Druva on why ransomware isn't your only problem. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. Our next guest is Stephen Manley, Chief Technology Officer of Druva and I'm John Srinivas, who is the General Manager and Vice President of Product Management at Druva. Gentlemen, you got the keys to the kingdom, the technology, ransomware, data resilience. This is the topic, the IDC white paper that you guys put together with IDC. Really kind of nails it out. I want to get into it right away. Welcome to this segment, I really appreciate it. Thanks for coming on. Great to be here, John. So what's your thoughts on the survey's conclusion? Obviously, the resilience is huge. Ransomware continues to thunder away at businesses and causes a lot of problems, disruption. I mean, it's endless ransomware problems. What's your thoughts on the conclusion? So I'll say the thing that pops out to me is on the one hand, everybody who sees the survey who reads it's gonna say, well, that's obvious. Of course, ransomware continues to be a problem. Cyber resilience is an issue that's plaguing everybody. But I think when you dig deeper and there's a lot of subtleties to look into, but one of the things that I hear on a daily basis from the customers is it's because the problem keeps evolving. It's not as if the threat was a static thing to just be solved and you're done because the threat keeps evolving, it remains top of mind for everybody because it's so hard to keep up with what's happening in terms of the attacks. And I think the other important thing to note, John, is that people are grappling with this ransomware attack all of a sudden where they were still grappling with a lot of legacy in their own environment. So they were not prepared for the advanced techniques that these ransomware attackers were bringing to market. It's almost like these ransomware attackers had a huge leg up in terms of technology that they had in their favor while keeping the lights on was keeping IT away from all the tooling that needed to do. A lot of people are even still wondering when that happens next time, what do I even do? So clearly not very surprising. Clearly, I think it's here to stay. And I think as long as people don't retool for a modern era of data management, this is going to stay this way. Yeah, I mean, I hear this all the time in our CUBE conversations with practitioners. You know, it's kind of like the security problem. Give me more tools. I'll buy anything that comes on the market. I'm desperate. There's definitely a tension, but it doesn't seem like people are satisfied with the tooling that they have. Can you guys share kind of your insights into what's going on the product side because people claim that they have tools at fine points of recovery opportunities, but they can't get there. So it seems to be that there's a confidence problem here in the market. How do you guys see that? Because I think this is where the rubber meets the road with ransomware, because it is a moving train. It's always changing, but it doesn't seem this confidence. Can you guys talk about that? What's your reaction? Yeah, let me jump in first and Stephen can add to it. What happens is, I think this is a panic buying and they have accumulated this tooling now just because somebody said it could solve your problem. But they haven't had a chance to take a relook from a ground up perspective to see where are the bottlenecks, where are the vulnerabilities and which tooling set needs to lie where, where does the logic need to reside? And what it through of your watching people do and people do it successfully is that as they have adopted through our technology which is ground up built for the cloud and really built in a way which is driven at a data insight level where we have people even monitoring our service for anomalies and activities that are suspicious, we know where we need to play a role in really kind of mitigating this ransomware. And then there is a whole plethora of ecosystem players that kind of combine to really, really finish the story, so to say, right? So I think this has been a panic buying situation. This is like, get me any help you can give me. And I think as this settles down and people really understand that longer term as they really build out a true defense mechanism, they need to think really ground up. They will start to really see the value of technologists like Dhruva and try to identify the right set of ecosystem to really bring together to solve it meaningfully. You know what I was gonna say, I mean, one of the really interesting things in the survey for me and for a moment, you know, a little more than a moment that made me think was the large number of respondents who said, I've got a really efficient, well-run backup environment. Who then on basically the next question said, and I have no confidence that I can recover from a ransomware attack. And you scratch your head and you think, well, if your backup environment is so good, why do you have such low confidence? And I think that's the moment when we dug deeper and we realized, if you've got a traditional architecture, let's face it, the dis-based architecture has been around for almost two decades now in terms of dis-based backup, you can have that tuned to the help. That can be running as efficiently as you want it. But it was built before the ransomware attacks, before all these cyber issues really start hitting companies. And so I have this really well-run traditional backup environment that is not at all built for these modern threat vectors. And so that's really why customers are saying, I'm doing the best I can. But as Anjan pointed out, the architecture of the tooling isn't there to support what problems I need to solve today. Great point. And so, yeah. Well, that's a great point. And before we get into the customer side I want to get to in a second. You know, I interviewed Jaspreet, the founder and CEO many years ago, even before the pandemic. And you mentioned modern. You guys have always had the cloud with Truva. This is huge. Now that you're past the pandemic, what is that modern cloud edge that you guys have? Because that's a great point. A lot of stuff was built kind of back on recovery, bolted on, not really kind of designed into the current state of the infrastructure and the cloud native application modern environment we're seeing right now. It's a huge issue. I think it's, to me, there's three things that come up over and over and over again as we talk to people in terms of, you know, being built in cloud, being cloud native, why is it an advantage? The first one is security in ransomware. And we can go deeper, but the most obvious one that always comes up is every single backup you do with Truva is air gap offsite managed under a separate administrative domain so that you're not retrofitting any sort of air gap network and buying another appliance or setting up your own cloud environment to manage this. Every backup is ransomware protected, guaranteed. I think the second advantage is the scalability. And you know, this certainly plays into account as your business grows or in some cases as you shrink or repurpose workloads you're only paying for what you use. But it also plays a big role again when you start thinking of ransomware recoveries because we can scale your recovery in cloud on premises as much or as little as you want. And then I think the third one is we're seeing basically things evolving, your workloads, data sprawl, new threat vectors. And one of the nice parts of being a SaaS service in the cloud is you're able to roll out new functionality every two weeks and there's no upgrade cycle. There's no waiting, the customer doesn't have to say, wow, I need it six months in the lab before I upgrade it. And it's an 18 month, 24 month cycle before the functionality releases. You're getting it every two weeks and it's backed by Druva to make sure it works. That's awesome. John, you know, you got the product side. You know, it's a challenging job because you have so many customers asking for things probably on the roadmap, you probably can go hour for that one. But I want to get your thoughts on what you're hearing and seeing from customers. You know, we just reviewed the IDC with Phil, how are you guys responding to your customer's needs because it seems that it's highly accelerated on the probably on the feature request, but also structurally as Ransomware continues to evolve, what are you hearing? What's the key customer need? How are you guys responding? Yeah, actually I have two things that I hear very clearly when I talk to customers. One, I think after listening to their security problems and their vulnerability challenges because we see customers and help customers who are getting challenged by Ransomware on a weekly basis. And what I find that this problem is not just a technology problem, it's an operating model problem. So in order to really secure themselves, they need a security operating model and a lot of them haven't figured out that security operating model in totality. Now where we come in as Druva is that we are providing them the cloud operating model and a data protection operating model combined with a data insights operating model which all fit into that overall security operating model that they are really owning and they need to manage and operate because this is just not about a piece of technology. On top of that, I think our customers are getting challenged by all the same challenges of not just spending time on keeping the lights on, but innovating faster with less and that has been this age old problem, but in this whole, they're like trying to innovate in the middle of the war, so to say, right? The war is happening, they're getting attacked, but there's also new shadow IT challenges that's forcing them to make sure that they can manage all the new applications that are getting developed in the cloud. There is thousands of SaaS applications that they're consuming, not knowing which data is critical to their success and which ones to protect and govern and secure. So all of these things are coming at them at 100 miles per hour while they are just trying to live one day at a time and unless they really develop this overall security operating model helped by cloud native technologies like Dhruva that really providing them a true cloud native model of really giving like a touchless and an invisible protection infrastructure, not just beyond backups, beyond just the data protection that we all know of into this kind of this mindset of kind of being able to look at where each of those functionalities need to lie. That's where I think they're grappling with. Now Dhruva is clearly helping them with keep up to pace with the public cloud innovations that they need to do and how to protect data. We just launched our EC2 offering to protect EC2 virtual machines back in AWS and we are going to be continuing to evolve that to further many services that public clouds offer because our customers are really kind of consuming them at breakneck speed. So the new workloads, the new security capabilities, love that, good call out there. Steven, this is still the issue of the disruption side of it. You guys have a guarantee, there's a cost to ownership as you get more tools. Can you talk about that angle of it? Because this is, you got new workloads, you got the new security needs. What's the disruption impact? Because we want to avoid that. How much is it going to cost you? And you guys have this guarantee. Can you explain that? Yeah, absolutely. So Druva launched our $10 million data resiliency guarantee. And for us, there were really two key parts to this. The first obviously is $10 million means that, again, we're willing to put our money where our mouth is and that's a big deal, right? That we're willing to back this with the guarantee. But then the second part, and this is the part that I think reflects that sort of model that Anjan was talking about. We sort of look at this and we say, the goal of Druva is to do the job of protecting and securing your data for you so that you as a customer don't have to do it anymore. And so the guarantee actually protects you against multiple types of risks, all with SLAs. So everything from your data is going to be recoverable in the case of a ransomware attack. Okay, that's good. Of course, for it to be recoverable, we're also guaranteeing your backup success rate. We're also guaranteeing the availability of the service. We're guaranteeing that the data that we're storing for you can't be compromised or leaked externally. And we're guaranteeing the long-term durability of the data so that if you back up with us today and you need to recover 30 years from now, that data is going to be recovered. So we wanted to really attack the end-to-end risks that affect our customers. Cybersecurity is a big deal, but it is not the only problem out there. And the only way for this to work is to have a service that can provide you SLAs across all of the risks because that means, again, as a SaaS vendor, we're doing the job for you. So you're buying results as opposed to technology. That's a great, great point. Ransomware isn't the only problem. That's the title of this presentation, but it's a big one, people are concerned about it. So great stuff. In the last five minutes, guys, if you don't mind, I'd love to have you share what's on the horizon for Drova. You mentioned the new workloads on John. You mentioned this new security, the hearing shift left. DevOps is now the developer model. They're running IT, get data and security teams now stepping in and trying to be as high-velocity as possible for the developers and enterprises. What's on the horizon for Drova? What trends is the company watching and how are you guys putting that together to stay ahead in the marketplace and competition? Yeah, I think listening to our customers, what we realize is they need help with the public cloud number one. I think that's a big wave of consumption. People are consolidating their data centers, moving to the public cloud. They need help in expanding data protection, which becomes the basis of a lot of the security operating model that I talked about. They need that first from Drova before they can start to get into much more advanced level of insights and analytics on that data to protect themselves and secure themselves and do interesting things with that data. So we are expanding our coverage on multiple fronts there. The second key thing is to really bring together a very insightful presentation layer, which I think is very unique to Drova because only we can look at multiple tenants, multiple customers because we are a SaaS vendor and look at insights and give them best practices and guidances and analytics that nobody else can give. There's no silo anymore because we are able to take a good big vision view and now help our customers with insights that otherwise that information map is completely missing. So we are able to guide them down a path where they can optimize which workloads need what kind of protection and then how to secure them. So that is the second level of insights and analytics that we are building. And there's a whole plethora of security offerings that we are gonna build all the way from a feature level where we have things like a recycle bin that's already available to our customers today to prevent any anomalous behavior and attacks that would delete their backups and then they still have a way to recover from it. But also things to curate and get back to that point in time where it is safe to recover and help them with a sandbox which they can recover confidently knowing it's not going to jeopardize them again and reinfect the whole environment again. So there's a whole bunch of things coming but the key themes are public cloud data insights and security and that's where my focus is to go and get those features delivered. And Steven can add a few more things around services that Steven is looking to build and launch. Sure, so yeah, so John, I think one of the other areas that we see just an enormous groundswell of interest. So public cloud is important but there are more and more organizations that are running hundreds, if not thousands of SaaS applications. And a lot of those SaaS applications have data. So there's the obvious things like Microsoft 365, Google Workspace. But we're also seeing a lot of interest in protecting Salesforce because if you think about it, if someone deletes some really important records in Salesforce, that's actually kind of the record of your business. And so we're looking at more and more SaaS application protection and really getting deep in that application awareness. It's not just about backup and recovery when you look at something like a Salesforce or something like Microsoft 365, you do want to look into sandboxing. You want to look into long-term archival because this is the new record of the business. What used to be in your on-premises databases, that all lives in cloud and SaaS applications now. So that's a really big area of investment for us. The second one, just to echo what Anjan said is, one of the great things of being a SaaS provider is I have metadata that spans across thousands of customers and tens of billions of backups a year. I'm tracking all sorts of interesting information that is going to enable us to do things like make backups more autonomous. So that customers, again, I want to do the job for them. We'll do all the tuning, we'll do all the management for them to be able to better detect ransomware attacks, better respond to ransomware attacks because we're seeing across the globe. And then of course, being able to give them more insight into what's happening in their data environment so they can get a better security posture before any attack happens. Because let's face it, if you can set your data up more cleanly, you're going to be a lot less worried and a lot less exposed when that attack happens. So we want to be able to, again, cover those SaaS applications in addition to the public cloud. And then we want to be able to use our metadata and use our analytics and use this massive pipeline we've got to deliver value to our customers, not just charts and graphs, but actual services that enable them to focus their attention on other parts of the business. That's great stuff, John. And remember, John, I think all this while keeping things really easy to consume, consumer-grade UI APIs, and they're really the power of SaaS as a service, a simplicity to kind of continue on amongst kind of keeping these complex technologies together. Adjo, that's a great call out. I was going to mention ease of use and self-service, big part of the developer and IT experience expected. It's the table stakes. Love the analytic angle. I think that brings the scale to the table and faster time to value to get to learn best practices. But at the end of the day, information cross-cloud protection and security to protect and recover, this is huge. And this is a big part of not only just protecting against ransomware and other things, but really being fast and being agile. So really appreciate the insights. Thanks for sharing on this segment, really under the hood and really kind of the value of the product. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. Okay, there it is. You got the experts talking about under the hood, the product of value, the future of what's going on with Druva and the future of cloud native protecting and recovering. This is what it's all about. It's not just ransomware, they have to worry about. In a moment, Dave Vellante will give you some closing thoughts on the subject here. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in high-tech enterprise coverage. As organizations migrate their business processes to multi-cloud environments, they still face numerous threats and risks of data loss. With a growing number of cloud platforms and fragmented applications, it leads to an increase in data silos, sprawl and management complexity. As workloads become more diverse, it's challenging to effectively manage data growth, infrastructure and resource costs across multiple cloud deployments. Using numerous backup vendor solutions for multiple cloud platforms can lead to management complexity. More importantly, the lack of centralized visibility and control can leave you exposed to security vulnerabilities, including ransomware that can cripple your business. The Druva Data Resiliency Cloud is the only 100% SaaS data resiliency platform that provides centralized, secure, air-gapped and immutable backup and recovery. With Druva, your data is safe with multiple layers of protection and is ready for fast recovery from cyber attacks, data corruption or accidental data loss. Through a simple, easy to manage platform, you can seamlessly protect fragmented, diverse data at scale across public clouds and your business-critical SaaS applications. Druva is the only 100% SaaS vendor that can manage, govern and protect data across multiple clouds and business-critical SaaS applications. It supports not just backup and recovery, but also data resiliency across high-value use cases such as eDiscovery, sensitive data governance, ransomware and security. No other vendor can match Druva for customer experience, infinite scale, storage optimization, data immutability and ransomware protection. The Druva Data Resiliency Cloud, your data, always safe, always ready. Visit druva.com today to schedule a free demo. One of the big takeaways from today's program is that in the scramble to keep business flowing over the past two-plus years, a lot of good technology practices have been put into place, but there's much more work to be done. Specifically, because the frequency of attacks is on the rise and the severity of lost, stolen or inaccessible data is so much higher today, business resilience must be designed into architectures and solutions from the start. It cannot be an afterthought. Well, actually it can be, but you won't be happy with the results. Now, part of the answer is finding the right partners, of course, but it also means taking a system's view of your business, understanding the vulnerabilities and deploying solutions that can balance cost efficiency with appropriately high levels of protection, flexibility and speed slash accuracy of recovery. You know, we hope you found today's program useful and informative. Remember, this session is available on demand in both its full format and the individual guest segments. All you got to do is go to thecube.net and you'll see all the content or you can go to druva.com. There are tons of resources available, including analyst reports, customer stories, there's this cool TCO calculator. You can find out what pricing looks like and lots more. Thanks for watching. Why ransomware isn't your only problem made possible by Druva. A collaboration with IDC and presented by theCUBE, your leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage.