 So if you haven't noticed yet, there is coffee in the back of the room, thanks to our friends at Databricks, VMware, and Mattermost. For those of you getting in, just at the end here, just a reminder, we do have coffee in the back of the room from our friends at VMware, Mattermost, and Databricks. Cool. So let's go ahead, we're just a minute past 10. So we'll go ahead and get started here in just a second, we've got a couple administrative items and then as folks join us, we'll kick off with our keynote today by Demetris about making our community more diverse and inclusive. So thanks again everybody for joining us for the Sunday morning keynote here at the Hilton LAX for Scale 19. As a reminder, we have another keynote closing this afternoon with Dr. Vint Cerf and if you're not familiar with him, he is one of the creators of the internet, I think all of my early reading about the internet and CS and as I was getting started, I'll talk about him. So this is a very exciting moment for me, also with Demetris as well as we talk about how to grow our own communities. If you haven't had a chance yet to head by the Expo floor, there's plenty of time after this session as well, please do go by and thank our sponsors for helping make this conference possible as well as all the community groups that join us to share about their open source projects, their lugs, their meetups, their initiatives, they all put in a ton of effort and so wanted to take a minute to also share some of the winners of the Scale Exhibitor prizes. We surveyed you all about what you enjoyed at the conference, what you enjoyed on the Expo floor and the ballots and results came in and so without further ado, we'll drop these off at your booths afterwards, don't feel like you have to rush the stage but the people have spoken and open, Suza has won best presentation at their booth. Our friends at the Linux chicks have won the prize for best spirit. We are very thankful to Spot and Dave Nally and the rest of the AWS team for all of their support this year and they have won most memorable booth. If you haven't been down there, AWS is doing some amazing things with open source, they've also got some fancy sodas for you and other cool swag so go on by, talk to them about how they're helping build a more open cloud. Nightlab has won most interactive booth and so it sounds like there's some fun interactive things to do at that booth. I encourage you to go by before the Expo closes that too and try those activities out. And then finally, people really love the swag that came from the CNCF, the cloud native computing foundation. They were working with a bunch of Lego sets of all their favorite cloud native characters and I saw some people building some exciting things with them both at game night and on the Expo floor so again go check them out as well. So we will bring those certificates by your booths later on, no need to rush the stage just now. And so on that note, again, for next year we are planning to have scale back in Pasadena. I know everybody enjoyed this blast from the past here at LAX, I hope you got your in and out in and anything else that you enjoyed from this particular area but next year we will be back in Pasadena with all of the fun activities that that brings with it. So again today we will be here till 4 at 3 o'clock we will have Dr. Vint Cerf's presentation about how open source helped build the internet as well as some fun raffles and giveaways and we have a new laptop from Purism that you have to be in the room to win so I encourage you to come join and a closing sort of happy hour with drinks and snacks and other things so again we'll see you all here at 3 to 4 at give or take but let's transition to what you're all here for this morning I know we all braved game night last night and stayed up till the wee hours playing video games and winning at you know casino games and escape rooms and such but we're here this morning early on a Sunday for to learn all about diversity and inclusion and it's one of the most I think it's an important topic for us as a community as we try to figure out how do we continue to grow it we can't just continue to build a community of just ourselves there's lots of friends that have that have come from different backgrounds different perspectives different areas of interest so we thought it was an important opportunity for us to learn with Demetrius and later in the conversation with Carsten how we can all continue to grow and contribute to that to that diversity and inclusive inclusiveness so without further ado I'd like to introduce Demetrius who flew in from a very special family occasion just to join us today and she'll be she'll be sharing with us a little bit about the work she's doing at GitHub and in her past and elsewhere and so thank you very much appreciate you joining us thank you so much everyone delighted to be here oh my gosh I don't think I've ever got a yell before at the beginning so I appreciate that so wanted to let you all know just so you'll know you'll have time to ask us some Q&A I'm gonna speak for about 20 minutes here and then my friend Carsten is gonna join me for some Q&A to hear and I have been more of a fireside chat type style and then we're gonna save about 20 minutes for you all to ask any questions that you may have so anything that comes up for you during this presentation please just jot it down and I'm happy to answer that afterwards so okay let's get started let's open-source diversity and inclusion and figure out what the heck did I mean by that so again I am Demetrius Cheatham I'm the senior director for diversity and inclusion strategy at GitHub been there for about two years now and I have to tell you about my time at GitHub specifically when I was interviewing so I was interviewing with Erica Brusha who sends her love and regards for scale by the way when I told her I was coming here she was like oh my gosh I remember when it got started and all these things and they're my friends so she told me to make sure that I told you all hello but Erica Brusha was the COO of GitHub at the time where I was interviewing and so she was interviewing me and she asked that all-important question you know the question that's gonna come up in every single interview you do she said Demetrius why do you want to join GitHub you see she had just finished talking to me about how GitHub was actually approaching diversity and inclusion in a much more holistic way most of the time when you hear about diversity and inclusion they have it right in HR which is what I used to do at Red Hat and it's so important to be there but GitHub was now approaching it from looking at their platform of when I started it was 50 million developers a little under two years ago and now they're at 83 million developers they were looking at it from their philanthropy or their social sector their giving they were also looking at it from people which is their HR perspective and they were also looking at it through their policy efforts and so when she asked me why did I want to join I gave her this little tongue-and-cheek answer I said Erica I want to join GitHub because I want to open source diversity and inclusion and I smiled at her and she smiled at me and I guess it was a good answer because I'm here so after I started you know they let me go through my own boarding you know figure out with the virtual bathrooms or on slack and all those things and then all of a sudden she said okay Demetrius now go open source diversity and inclusion I was like oh you remember that look what does that mean I didn't know so I just started doing what I love to do anyway I just started talking to as many people and open source that I can I got on Twitter anybody's name that I saw talking about DEI and open source I was DMing them asking them could they just have a quick coffee chat with me and over the course of hundreds of conversations there were some themes that started to come out the first was inclusion happens at the community level you see when someone new comes into open source their first one or two interactions in their first community really sets the tone on whether or not they're going to stay in open source if they have a really positive and inclusive experience they say you know what those open source folks they're my people and they're here to stay but if they have a negative interaction someone ignores their contribution someone doesn't respond to them they say you know what I don't feel welcome here and they're gone and research is saying they're often gone for good and so then we started looking at the community level I said well who's responsible for driving inclusion in the community and overwhelmingly people sent maintainers or community leaders were the ones that's responsible you have to think about maintainers or community leaders like your managers if you're working for a corporation or organization right you can build all of these amazing corporate programs these trainings that everyone has to take these mandatory you know tutorials and education materials but all of a sudden if you take these mandatory trainings and you go back into your team your day-to-day experiences will undo anything that you've learned on these trainings so it's the manager you need me to stay right here I'm not moving okay and I'm a walker when I talk so I'm just gonna keep going back and forth that's good all right so it was really those managers that set the tone for inclusion so when I started talking to those community leaders and those managers I said well what do you need what can we give you and they were like please don't come with more trainings where they were like we have education materials there's podcasts there's articles every conference we go to people are talking about it constantly and constantly we are overwhelmed with material and so I said well if you have all the resources you need what's the issue and that's where the conversation started to you know just break up a little bit so when I talked to managers of smaller communities they said yes we have the resources we also have the influence with our community because we're speaking with our users and our contributors almost on a weekly basis but we don't have the time and we don't have the bandwidth we are all about trying to get hands on the keyboards contributors from wherever we can get them from we don't have time to focus on inclusion so I said okay well if this is what the community leaders of the smaller communities are saying what about of the larger communities and what they shared was yes we have the resources we have the time we have the bandwidth but now our community has gotten so large we can't easily influence the culture if someone's not doing something they're supposed to it gets a little harder to pick up the phone or send a quick message to them so you have this tension point the time in which you needed to focus on advancing inclusion in your community was the time when you didn't have the time to do it right so what do we do but one thing no matter what community leader I spoke to large or small they said here's what we know regardless of what we do there are still some really really great barriers to entry from people even being able to get to open source so they said we can build the most inclusive fun community there is but we don't address those barriers if we don't address that wall this there no one's even going to be able to get to our communities so this was a classic case of if we build it they will come not if there's that big wall that's there in the middle so that's what we wanted to address that's where the equity comes into play and so that's what we've set out to do with this open source community call all in all land is going to answer that question and do that thing that I said in our end of my interview we're going to open source diversity equity and inclusion and we're going to do so through access community equity and data so we kicked off all in this community about a year ago as a matter of fact and so during that first year we said we wanted to do three things and which we have checked off all three of those and moving forward from here to share about those three things the first thing was we needed to kick off an open source diversity equity and inclusion survey there were a lot of surveys out there there were many for individual communities but there wasn't really a broad survey that kind of cut across all of the different open source communities we had done a little bit of survey work on our platform a github but I made sure to let them know github is important we are a major player but we're not the only player there are so many communities on other platforms that are in other forms and we need to understand what their sentiments are about diversity equity inclusion if we're going to advance inclusion and open source the second thing was we kicked off a maintainers listening tour again if maintainers are the ones that's instrumental in advancing diversity inclusion and open source we really need to hear from them in a more structured and formal way and in the third thing which I'm so excited to tell you about because we are almost finished with this one we kicked in kicked off an all-in 12-month pilot and this first year was focused on students and we're getting ready to kick the one focused off the one that's focused on maintainers so let's talk about this survey so again we didn't want to just do it right on github's platform so we partner with the Linux Foundation and we introduce this survey over 60 some odd questions close to 70 questions and if you are a data nerd like I am please go and read this 64 page report if you say that you don't have data for open source diversity inclusion and open source you have not looked at this report please go there and so when we did the survey we have some surprising things that came out for me because I've heard so much about how you know open source is not a welcome inclusion there are some really big issues of you know things that's making it so that it's not a great place anymore but when we surveyed and it was a representative sample we found that 82% of survey respondents said I feel welcome at open source they agree with this statement I can tell you this if you go to any company and they get a 82% approval rating from their employees they are going to be popping bottles and there's going to be confetti raining from the ceiling that is a darn good number but guess what that's not the work of open that's not the work of diversity and inclusion we needed to give voice and hear the stories of the 18% that did not agree with that statement what were their stories what were their experiences what were they facing because I can tell you what's in that 18% that's probably what's keeping millions of others from even attempting to come into open source those are the stories that they're oftentimes hearing so we needed to hear from the 38% of non binary or third gender contributors who said that they didn't feel welcome at open source what are the 29% of people of color especially specifically in North America what are their experiences 26% of women said that they do not feel welcome at open source 25% of persons with disabilities and we can't look forget about that 15% over there of men that said that they did not feel welcome at open source and amazingly enough that number was composed mainly of white men in North America and so that was something that was just mind-blowing to me that's where we had to dig in that's where we needed to see what was going on and so we got over 10,000 written comments that our data and analysts went through and here's what we found oh you told me to stay still I started sorry okay just like one of those little stick things up here okay so here's what we found most people did not feel welcome if they didn't have the technical skills and knowledge that they felt was necessary to contribute to a community but the interesting part about it was when I talked to maintainers and community leaders they were sharing with me all of these very important and critical responsibilities of a community that did not require technical skills things that people could do while they were building up their technical skills so why was it that when someone was coming to the communities without the technical skills they were made to feel inferior that was something that we knew we needed to look at lack of response and rejections to contributions the interesting part about it is maintain well contributors were saying I will send an email or response or a message to the community leader and would never hear back or they would wait three or four weeks before I could hear back and so what the maintainers especially of those smaller communities they were like we're drowning here we're busy like we don't have time to respond all the time it's not because we're disrespecting them or don't value them we just don't have the time your new contributors don't know that if you don't have your documentation that's setting up expectations for when you can respond how to engage they're thinking that you just don't want them into your community and nothing could be further from the truth along those same lines especially amongst women they just felt like their voices at her their contributions aren't valued there was one comment that really really stuck out to me and this person that responded to the survey said if I am not white if I am not male if I am not rich if I am not highly educated no one wants to hear from me and we know that an open source that is not the case but that's how a lot of the people that were responded to the survey were filling and finally microaggressions and stereotypes and written communications this was a really really big one especially when you started looking at international respondents so you have really high numbers of feeling welcome in india you have high numbers in the continent of Africa but when you started looking into Spanish-speaking countries especially South America Portugal Brazil in which the numbers that are of people contributing to open source are going up higher and higher every day they said they didn't feel welcome at all and most of the time there are language barriers cultural barriers there so those are some of the things that we need to be thinking about as well we have to get to the point that an open source inclusion is not the exception it is the norm like it's not looking where we're seeing you know given awards for people being exemplary like everyone should be doing that and I think that is possible for us to get there so the second thing that we did was the maintainers listening tour and so we kicked off a series of focus groups individual interviews as well as an online form for people to submit feedback we asked them questions what do you need what are some of the challenges what's working what's not working what are the gaps we got so much rich information in that and so I released a talk and you can find it on our website on some of the top six things that we've learned like those six themes but I can tell you we're doing the final report of it every day I keep looking I think we were supposed to release it back in May and I was like it's too much information and they keep telling me to cut it and cut it I was like but I can't so we're trying to figure out the best way to release that your maintainers and your community leaders they actually have the answers they've just never been given the opportunity to communicate it and so I have a meeting next week with some leading researchers at some universities because I said I need you all at the table they're giving us the sentiment you all need to give us the data and the research then I'm going to the corporations and the foundations to give us the money to build the solutions and tools that they're asking us for like one of the things that they said was hey everybody's telling us how to solve for you know diversity and inclusion and everything they tell us is this long manual process that'll take us hours to do they were like can somebody build a tool or a script for that and I was like oh we are developers aren't we and we just need to give someone money to develop develop the tools so again we definitely will be kicking off a major grant program for developers to build some of the tools that these maintainers said that they need and we're going to make sure that they're freely available to everyone that needs them so want to talk about the next thing all in a 12 month pilot we were going to do one for the students and the maintainers within the first year but we got so involved with these amazing students that I'm going to tell you about I told the maintainers they have to wait and we're going to kick that off in a couple of months now so with these students we went to universities that are usually overlooked and no one is showing up on their campuses those are schools like historically black colleges and universities and not those top five or six but those ones that no one's going to and we also went to a school that was founded for the education of Native Americans in the United States and so we went to the schools and said we don't want to put up an application process because even filling out an application or an essay that's a privilege in a barrier in and of itself as well we want those students that really deserve a chance and we asked the schools to select them for us that's all we did we said send us their top five students and we're going to work with them we're going to give them during their fall semester they got open source education which was open source one-on-one learned about the language that you know what is a community what is a repo what's a maintainer how do you make your first pull request what do you do all of those things there and we offered them professional development because you can give someone the technical skills but there are some things that all of us wish we had known when we first started in our first job especially in a corporation right like what do you do when you're the only one on a team like how do you deal with micro aggressions how do you leverage your employee resource groups how do you deal with equity when you get it most of these students were from very very underserved communities and under resource when they come out of school they will be making more money than pretty much everyone in their family so we wanted to make sure that we even gave them financial education so that's what we focused on during the fall semester during the spring semester we then partnered them with major league hacking so that they got experience for 12 weeks actually participating in an open source community we just didn't give them the theory and the academics and just put them through training they got experience actually sometimes of learning how to code for the first time even though they were sophomores and juniors and they got experience with actually presenting their code learning their communication skills and all of this was to get them ready for a summer internship experience with one of our corporate partners and so we are in week eight of ten so the students are actually almost finished with their internships when we started over 90% of the students in our pilot had never heard of open source before over 90% had never had a summer internship before and I'm proud to say that we place all of them 100% of them many of them in their first open source internship experience and I have to tell you about these amazing students you know one of the things about it is if you go to any school if you get those that's in the top 10% GPA they'll find their way to an experience right someone will eventually you know hire them we knew that GPA is not the only aptitude for success the students in our program some of them are commuting two hours each way to school every day because they can't afford to stay on campus some of them are full-time caregivers especially during the pandemic where they have to live at home or they have students or they have kids we have full-time parents that are in our program you have students that are working part-time full-time or they are active duty military because that's the way they're paying for college and then you also have some that were on academic scholarship because my question to them was why don't you have an internship and they were like we have to train during the summer because otherwise we can't afford to go to school we're here on scholarship and so I'm like so if you are a scholar athlete that takes you out of the ability to even be able to participate in an internship that baffled me guess who can solve for that a very asynchronous community like open source right so we have some of our students that were on teams that might be in another time zone so that they can work flexible hours some of the students had to pick up college courses and we managed to work around their schedule that's what it meant to be all in that's what it meant to give students who are off the overlook who are just need that shot we just wanted to crack the door open for them so that they could just have an opportunity and we did that through the amazing partnership of schools organizations and corporate partners so whenever I show this slide I say this is what it looks like to open source diversity equity and inclusion and we have plenty of room up here for other logos and there's some that's going to get up at it already but then when I look at this inaugural class this is also what it looks like to open source diversity equity and inclusion this is our first cohort of graduates of all in and guess what we started with 30 in the pilot we are growing this year by 10x there will be 300 students that will be going through all in and I have to admit I settled on 300 because Microsoft and GitHub was like when are we getting to a thousand and 10,000 please and I was like whoa whoa whoa wait because one thing about it I just told you about the experiences of these students giving them technical education in a training course that act there actually was still some gaps that we didn't see that's why I wanted to keep the pilot small it never occurred to me it does now that if you have students that never had an internship and you're going to throw them into a corporate internship for the first time in a virtual experiment what does that mean for them they're like oh you wanted me to show up at work like every day at nine o'clock I thought this was like a class schedule or whatever just things like that their elevator pitch communication there were some students that they needed more of an intensive program so next year what we're going to do is for some of those students that need more of an intensive experience we're not just going to send them their first year to a corporation we're going to build I'm going to make this name up right now like the open source academy where for 10 weeks they will be with us getting more and more in-depth experience more and more training given them what they need that's what it means to be all in they are not a number to just push through a you know push through a program and say you graduated we're going to get them job placement if they need training if they need training for public speaking and presentation skills we're going to get them that we have some students who identified as neurodiverse we got them with training with a neurodiversity coach someone that was neurodiverse themselves because we didn't want them hearing from anyone that they needed to train and assimilate in order to fit in we did strength-based coaching let us understand who you are and what you need and then we're going to help find the right opportunity and the manager for you and when I say that I figured out how to get them that coaching it was through my friend Karsten and Sam Canute at Red Hat I called them that's what open source and diversity and inclusion mean I'm not sitting here in a silo trying to solve and solution for something I'm calling on friends everyone in this room to help us and so I want to make sure that what you're hearing today is understanding that this is not a program it's not a set of programs all land is a community it is a community of people it's all of us coming together with your best your thoughts your ideas your energy your resources the money from your companies and organizations jobs whatever it is that's what it means so we need all of you to participate here's how you can participate you can join the community go to alllandopensource.com if you are a company or an organization you can agree to hire interns next summer or if you want to contribute financially we have ways that we can take your money too and we need it because all of the students not only did we give them those things that I talked about each one of them received professional head shots we actually had a photographer go to their schools because a lot of them didn't even have head shots to go on to their LinkedIn profiles and we wanted to make sure that access was not an issue as well every student received a free MacBook as part of the program as well because what we learned where some students didn't take internships over the last couple of years because they didn't have a laptop at home so we have to make sure that we're addressing those things as well so lots of opportunity for you all to join and so please know that I extend this invitation less open-source diversity and inclusion thank you so I'm going to be joined up here for Q&A with my friend Karsten I moved all these on because I thought I was going to be walking all over and then they told me to stay still so do we need to go over there we just need to sit down though Karsten and so we have about 30 minutes but I want to make sure so Karsten is going to ask me a few questions but if you all have questions just raise your hand and we'll like interrupt here as well yeah thanks we'll see if I any of these questions are ones that people got in their mind and then we'll clean up so okay well good morning thanks for joining us at scale this is one of my favorite shows that I've told you before so you told me like five or six well so so do you mean to say I know that you've had a really successful career in serving in the chief of staff and at senior director level roles and what prompted you to launch the all-in-open source community at this point in your career yeah so when I um maybe about five or six years ago I had the opportunity to really think about what I wanted to do next in my career typically I haven't had that space but one of the things I want to do is I wanted to go back to my first love which I was a computer science major in undergrad and through a series of twists and turns which we can talk about because I think that's an issue with inclusion as well I kind of got away from tech but then I said I wanted to go back and it was funny enough I moved back to North Carolina I signed up for my first program in class because listen y'all I was a really good programmer C++ which totally dates me but I was like I'm gonna go and be a programmer again and I think I was like an hour into the class and I was like so I'm gonna be on the business side of tech again and so then I just thought about what would really make a difference and you hear all sorts of statistics about people of color women just being underrepresented in tech and specifically with open source I know how important it was for programs for me coming from a really poor background I you know it was so funny when I graduated high school my mother with three kids in college was making 13 thousand dollars a year and so I just think about all those program project breakthrough which is the program for HBCU students that IBDM had I was one of their interns project uplift there were so many of these impact for programs and it's so funny when I hear about those programs most people like are they really effective and I'm like oh they're very effective like a lot of people like if you can't scale it if you can't help millions and millions of students it's not work the ROI and I was like without those programs you wouldn't have a me and you wouldn't have a lot of my fellow classmates and so I said I want to join an organization which is going to let me figure out what type of program I want to create and that's why I created all of them yeah that makes sense so well so then it's not really hyperbole to say that that the advancing diversity equity and inclusion in technology in particular has been a part of your life's work right it's a part of my life's work yeah I live and breathe it every day and my daughter comes like every day she's like what are we doing with all them mom she's 11 and so she'll go to school and start talking about it as well and so it's this is what we talk about at the dinner table at night it's my life's work I love it and so when your professional roles and and your open source involvement were reflected those things so but what are some of the trends that you were noticed that they've got more as you've got more involved in in this effort of trying to make open source more inclusive yeah I mentioned it briefly but one of the things that I was just I don't know I was astounded by there's a lot of people that's working on diversity and inclusion and tech and even in open source there's a lot of articles a lot of there's a lot of money being spent and so when I look at how much effort and finances are going to diversity and inclusion and then I look at the numbers as my 11 year old said the math ain't math then like something is happening here and what I started seeing was that everybody's focused in the same areas like that top of the funnel they want to give students internships or they say we're going to do this or once you graduate then we're going to have all these amazing opportunities for you there are so many hurdles that students and people have to get to to even get to those internships I love when a company says oh we're going to go to this school and we're going to give them all of these certifications for free that they can take and I was like but they don't have laptops and they don't have wi-fi on their campus how are they they don't even have professors that's teaching their coding classes how are we going to get them to your amazing certifications but no one wants to do that work that's the long term that's not the easy ROI that's not the work you see in the headlines that's where you might only impact five students at a time no one wants to do that but that's that's where the equity lies so that's when you start hearing a lot of people take away equity they'll say let's just do diversity and inclusion let's just do belonging or let's just do justice but they don't like that equity word because that's that that's where the hard work is yeah and that's what struck me first when I thought I'm like wow how are we going to work on equity because that that was the yeah that was a tough one and and and also when we first met you're in the middle of your your maintainers listening to her and I know you've picked up a lot of things in a lot of the ways what are some of the interesting things that you would highlight or you know recall for all of us from that yeah I think for the maintainers I mentioned earlier like they kind of know what they need and they had never been given the platform to for us to really listen to them some of the amazing things that I saw come out just in a listening tour especially in person there was one I don't know if you were at this one it might have been in another conference where I did the listening tour where one of the maintainers she raised her hand small community and she was like one of the big things that I have is that we'll have someone that's new to open source they're coming to our community would give them opportunities they get up skill they start learning they start doing really impactful work for us and then they're hired away by a company and we celebrate that but then all of a sudden we have this big hole or gap in our community that no one can feel and oftentimes they're doing a lot of the work that we need for them to do to advance diversity and inclusion within our community so this one maintainer she said they had someone that was working on removing the dead names from their code and they were doing that and they got about 80% done 80% complete and then they were hired away and so that project has just been languishing for over a year now and all of a sudden someone from a very large community was like we have like 300 people working on that for us and now they're looking for their next project we're gonna send them over to you next week and they'll get that done for you and that was like a light bulb moment why aren't we doing more of that that literally is open sourcing like diversity that's open source and so one of the things that I found was just this partnership between it's not a competition people want to work together people that are saying Demetrius just tell us what to do and I promise you we'll do it they just say it was so many resources and that they were overwhelmed so those are some of the things that I saw that really really just struck with me on that piece of it yeah and I remember another another part of what you found and that really struck me as well was that you found the data that showed that that people who were in marginalized communities or minority status were were creating communities that were amongst themselves right and some folks might see that as a as a positive outcome but what's the other side what's the concerning side about that yeah so just to give everyone a little bit of context when we were looking at the data from the open source survey we started seeing very high numbers of people of color and women that said that they felt welcome at open source if they were a maintainer and I mean it was like a really huge spike and I was like huh that's something to be celebrate like people who you know make it into leadership roles they feel welcome and so then we started talking to some of the maintainers from the maintainers listening tour and right at the end it struck me I started asking the question why did you start your community and what they said was we tried to join larger communities or communities where we were in the minority and we didn't feel welcome so therefore we went created our own community over here and then I said are we creating separate but equal like not intentionally but that's what is coming out as and so now we have these larger communities that are like we need more people in leadership and those that try to be in leadership are like nope we're not joining your community we're going over here and creating our own so what seemed like something that should be a great thing to celebrate it actually has like some you know some undertones to it that I think that we need to address so when I talk about joining with universities that's what I want them to research I like you know no offense to anybody in the research space and they are my friends are working on some amazing work with them but oh like we do not need another research project on how to create more inclusive communities like there's like a million research papers on that let's start digging into that work that separate but equal work to see what's going on there that's when we can start you know finding solutions yeah I see can we save a question for the end thank you so let's shift a little bit because just because I was thinking also about what you were doing when we first met was you were right in the middle of that first cohort of students and I mean you brought tears in my eyes in the pictures and I mean I love the professional headshots like that those polishing pieces are such a huge difference or overcoming biases and at the first run but so and there are a lot of camps and educational programs and things out there that are for students you know so and especially in technology and even in open source and what do you see is really the different for students for for all in for students that compared to a lot of the others yeah you mentioned there's a lot of bootcamps out there a lot of programs corporate organizations that underwise but I think not to sound cliche but we're all in with these students like we just don't stop it was I'll give you a prime example of what this meant it was right after the holiday break the students came back and they were supposed to go with major league hacking and you know do their I think it was 10 hours a week and we got an email from a student and the email was very short and curt it was like I can't do 10 hours a week so basically y'all need to figure something out and most people would have been you know organizations or bootcamps would have been like oh you can't make the the requirements you're out like it would have been no questions asked but I actually picked up the phone and called her professors I called the professors and said what's going on and they sent me the article where she was in a really bad car accident like concussion protocol she wasn't even supposed to be in school this semester but she said she has to graduate on time because she can't afford to extend for another year so here I would have if I did it just quick if I was just looking at her as a number she would have been gone from the program replaced with someone else who wanted the macbook and you know the free stipends in the academic credit but I said I told these students I was like we're not letting any of you go I was like this might sound a little cultish but I will be all I will call your we've been on the phone with parents we've been on the phone with professors the deans of their schools we've been involved with them even during the internship process we are really really making sure that we go all in and really address the needs of their students we are not letting them fail but I can tell you that my boss reminds me of every day it's not sustainable like this like you're 30 students almost wore me out so imagine 300 students imagine 10,000 students so that's where we're looking now we're going to be issuing some rfps we're going to have to have partners people that do this and do it well that bring what they do to the table we can't solve it all ourselves one of my pet peeves is when like companies try to like create a university like tech company I'm like you're not a university why are you doing that like go and give money to a university and let them do it well and so we can't be all the things right and so that's what we're doing with all in I think that's what makes it different we're not looking at it at a competitive advantage someone asked me when I first started this program he you know he was a member of a c-suite of a company he was like Demetrius is an amazing program but you're open sourcing it what if somebody comes and steal your idea and just take it and they do it and I'm like yes that's what I want them to do because that means it's going to be 30 times 30 times 30 times 30 and he looked at me like I was crazy I was like why don't you start a b-court nope I'm not doing it so everything that's in my head I am pushing it out and hoping that people not compete with us but join with us to do it and I think that's the difference with all in yeah and I and I really feel like you've caught that spirit of like what makes open source work when people are inclusive and and being able for all of us to work together through this model I mean yeah that's what sold me on it for well you know I just was oh you're in your and I grab how I love it I love so um so speaking of the similar thing of you know we've looked at the little bit of the wall of funders aspect and all those and the participation and where does the where does open source software funding fit in to the picture of all in we got to pay people yeah like you know I was speaking in a conference it was virtual at the height of of COVID and someone put in the chat and they were like contributing to open source is a privilege and I was thinking that I don't know what I thought they were talking about but I actually picked phone you know and call the person in the world was on zoom and scheduled a meeting and she was like even during the pandemic if we didn't have time it's if it's not your full-time job like some people still view open source as a hobbyist activity extracurricular activity so if you don't have all of the support that you need at home or if you're not working multiple jobs or you know all those things you don't have time to contribute to open source and so when I started talking to a lot of maintainers they were like there's some amazing people that could help them in their communities but they can't afford to pay them and they have other jobs and they have other commitments so they kind of come and go as they can and I was like I think with all the money that we make in tech I think that's like one of the easiest things to solve for but then you know a lot of times people think you need like buckets and buckets of cash one of the things that struck me when we were doing the maintainers listening to where I was talking to some folks that were internationally it was a contributor in Africa as a matter of fact Nigeria specifically and I was like yeah we heard about lack of infrastructure you know and you all don't have access to data and blah blah blah and she said that's not our problem we got access to data all over the place and I was like oh well what is it she was like it's so expensive to actually connect to the data and that's why we can't participate and I was like oh well how much is that going to cost because I'm thinking we need to go build some power lines or something I don't know and she was like uh probably if you gave every person like that wanted to contribute to your community like 200 dollars a year and that would get them unlimited data and I'm like y'all aren't contributing and aren't participating your shutout for 200 bucks I was like what what does that even mean and so that's where I think we have to really think about and look at and really break down what is funding diversity and inclusion look like because a lot of people are thinking it needs to be millions and millions and billions of dollars but sometimes it could be as simple as 200 dollars for data for a year or a MacBook or a laptop for them to do a internship and so we're solving for that even through our corporate sponsors program we get well so shifting to uh just some questions about the advancing of diversity equity and inclusion in open source and you know from the broad perspective um as a lot of people know that contributing open source software for the first time can be um it could be dawning for new people even if it's no matter how eager they are to be doing it um so what are you from research what are some specific steps that projects can do like the Drupal community that uh to take the foster that more inclusive and welcoming atmosphere for any community documentation is going to be critical people are looking at your documentation as soon as they come into your community trying to figure out how they can contribute how can they be a part of you know whatever it is that you're doing have robust documentation I think that's the thing that's most often overlooked and then the second thing I would say that we've heard a lot of is just community hospitality when someone joins your community you can have through github actions by the way the stainless plug you can have it where as soon as someone joins your community it sends them an instant message that says hey welcome to our community this is how you can contribute we're glad you're here your voice is is you know really really valued here just those small little steps like that that was the number one thing that we were hearing out of the survey to say it can advance diversity and inclusion I think a lot of people were thinking it was going to say hey close captions for every meeting which is also very very important or you know all these other things that you might not have time but they were like no just let us know that you see that we're here and that could be something that's automated so documentation community hospitality if you get those two things I think that you are going you know you're well on your way to advance and diversity inclusion in your community and then we can start doing some of the equity things as as a docs writer that's maybe another reason why you won my heart over from the beginning with that with the proof in the pudding so from another from another perspective what you mentioned how crucial it is for open source communities to be sharing and working with each other about their experiences with diversity equity and inclusion what are some of the mistakes that you've seen open source maintainers make with diversity equity and inclusion I think the number one mistake that I've seen and it's not a mistake it's just an opportunity I would say you know if I had to change the word that's my word okay but it was it was funny and so I you know during the listening tour I was having individual conversations and it was always a maintainer of a large community or a well-resourced community and they would say hey Demetrius we're doing all of these efforts we're you know having these spaces for people to come and learn about our community we're having these diversity and inclusion talks so that we can start identifying future leaders all these things that we've set up we're pouring thousands and thousands a year into this but no one's showing up we can't find women or people of color anywhere they won't come and so I'll ask them a question I love asking this question it's almost like and I already know the answer but it cracks me up to see their face but I'll say well tell me about your marketing efforts for those events that you're having and they were like oh yeah we're sending out on Twitter and LinkedIn and I was like who's twitter and LinkedIn they were like ours our leadership team and I was like let me see your friends list on each of these platforms and when I look at their friends list I was like they look like you like all of them typically are white men so if you're sending this out to a bunch of white men who do you think are going to show up you have to expand your personal networks and I think that that's something that is often overlooked for maintenance people join communities they're almost like you know friends that join together I've heard so many communities start from people meeting at conferences like this or they're hanging out at a bar somewhere it's friends and family members and they start this community and then they bring in the people that they know and the people that they know and even myself included most of our personal networks are people that are similarly situated to us so if your community if your personal network looks like this and that's all you're advertising to you're never going to reach abroad in diverse audience to bring them into your community to introduce yourself so I would say make sure that you're going to conferences not just with your friends and the ones you know and that you've been going to year over keep coming to scale because we need to scale 20, 20, 21 or whatever but there's also other conferences that you can be a part of whether it's AfroTech whether it's some for the Hispanic community go there as well and start expanding your personal network and I think that's the number one mistake that I see people trying to advance diversity and inclusion with people that look just like them are from the same backgrounds or the same you know abilities excellent thanks well I'm mindful we have got a few minutes left I want to make sure we have a there's at least one question in the queue um I did um do I want I was going to ask you one of the one more thing about what you thought about the future of diversity and inclusion and open source so we can do we want to do about that one or do you want to go ahead and jump to I'll go I've got I've got one of yours I think over here it was one all the way over here first the mat yep I think she was first do we have an amazing skirt by the way I think I need that yes uh yeah so I really love the um effort of going out to colleges that have traditionally been underrepresented um how do you empower those students to um uh advocate for themselves when they get to their first job offer they will they will be paid less than their more privileged counterparts that's just the numbers yeah how can we change that yeah I think the number one thing is just arming them with information and that's why I said as part of our curriculum we went into what does finances look like what are typical salary ranges how can you start reaching out to people to talk about what you know different salary ranges and those things are but what I've learned through the summer is that the students they still aren't there yet we're talking about how can they advocate for themselves and we still have a lot of these students that are dealing with a lot of imposter syndrome just to ask them hey what have you been working on this week it you would think that's like one of the hardest questions that they've ever heard before and so just get in the more and more comfortable hearing their voices in front of those we noticed that when we first started all in the fall semester they were working with a lot of folks on my team and folks that were that look like them from underrepresented background when we put them into and they were very engaged when we put them into major league hacking and those are they're my friends but mostly white people you saw the students just clam up inside of themselves and it was I mean it was amazing to watch that but I was like we have to even get them more exposed to people to realize that they're going to have to work with people from all parts of the world and they need to be comfortable in themselves and I think that's just practice and practice and it's having people that do it and do it well it's not us doing it that's why I said we're partnering with an organization and we're trying to find one that they know how to do this and do it well to get these students prepared so it's a definitely a step by step process thank you thank you yes hi I was I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about resource allocation so I work on a lot of open source hardware and so one of the problems we have with our projects is in order to be a contributor you need to have access to the ability to put together a circuit board you need to have access to fusion 360 to then maybe if you have a 3d printer or something along those lines so there's like in individually each one of those things to your point about speaking about privilege and the ability to contribute now it's not just a time thing you also have to have a resource thing and so I'm wondering if you could speak about how one goes about expanding an open source hardware project to be more inclusive while at the same time recognizing that we are also strapped for cash and can't be oh here's a $2,000 care package to just give you your whatever you need to start yeah um I think the number one way is making people know what the work is that you're trying to it's so funny that when you said that my ears perked up I have a student that they said that after the summer they realized they don't want to do software they want to do hardware and I was like I don't know where to tell you to go who's working on hardware and so like so us having this conversation and knowing what everyone's doing in these pockets of open source we can then connect because I can solve for the funding like I have this one student if you tell me he needs a whatever look it's not like a million dollars or something right like if it's enough and there's a reason we can get there there's foundations that have been reaching out to us the four foundation has generously funded us we're talking to the Sloan Foundation the Linux Foundation they have been all over the place and they're like if it's money tell us what you need but we've been trying to figure out where best to get the money and so I think it's just us having these conversations and that's where open source and diversity inclusion you know that's where it comes into play so if your your community says we want to take on five students we would need ten thousand dollars to take on five students and we can match then that's what it looks like when we're all coming to the table and bringing what we can bring to the table I'm sure Cisco Intel all of those companies that deal with hardware they would love to you know if you all are in corporate sponsor get up sponsors to be able to send money your way to do that especially for those from underserved communities yes um entrepreneurism and um the networking say of churches and existing can you maybe talk about some of the strategies or ways that you think that we can approach building those type of resources yeah so I would say it's two things one one of the things that we've learned through this pilot we talked about corporate program you know the corporate partners are getting the students for internships at these corporate partners not everybody wants to go work for a major corporation they want to work for smaller you know organizations like startups they want to contribute directly to communities because they have entrepreneurial dreams they want to be a founder one day and so that's why for this next iteration of all in we're looking for not just corporate partners I probably need to change the name of that we're looking for any organization that's willing to host students because people want different experiences we're looking at schools in Washington DC and they're saying hey we actually want to stay in DC are there government agencies that do open source and so we need government agencies there so the quant that you're making about you know churches and non-profit organizations we started to pilot with students because they were readily available demographic but we are going to expand all in for everyone that wants this type of opportunity because we realize they're retirees they're community leaders there are people that are more advanced in their community and they want to give back so we're like let's teach them open source so that they can go to the communities that have these young folks that they can actually start bringing into the communities in places that we can't reach so we are definitely expanding all in so they can be for I could say retirees for career changers people that are currently and formally incarcerated I always say open source is the lowest barrier to entry in tech and so we need to be reaching out to more and more so we definitely have that in our roadmap yes I have a question there and a question here too okay we have time for maybe two more yeah we'll start here I'm Sam Coleman um I had a kind of a complex question what it is is that when I did my doctoral research it was an open source technology in public education about six up seven eight years ago oh and a lot of people in this room had a pretty significant impact on my development in open source and all these people don't look like me and I love them and they may or may not know who they are I'm just gonna say that it's important that you know we need to recognize the level of impact that we have on people I wouldn't have become Dr Coleman unless I had a lot of people in this room help me my question to you is this through your survey have you been able to identify the the entry points into open source for for people of color because for me I kind of stumbled into scale in 2004 I had no idea what I was getting myself into I just I was looking around like you know who these guys kind of cool you know and so I was wondering has your survey gathered that data so that we can kind of analyze what the entry points are to maybe help hasten that process yeah we we didn't ask that question specifically but we have enough data and some other questions that I think we can make some assumptions about some things because there was still a high number of people that they got exposure to open source through their undergraduate curriculum but then when we can start looking and there's been some research that if you look at historically black colleges and universities and minority serving institutions they don't have open source curriculum so there's a gap there so we started seeing an entry point that more people of color came into open source later in their careers it was after they had already been you know working for sometimes over a decade before they even got exposure to it and so that's what we were looking at and all in how can we infuse it more and more into curriculum and we're looking at Microsoft Tills which teach they train people to teach computer science education in high schools and so I told them I want open source curriculum as part of your curriculum now so that we can train people if you have a local high school in your community you can go get trained through Microsoft Tills where you can go once a week or once a month to actually introduce open source curriculum so we have some data and the data is open anything that's not anonymous and so we have the data set so I would love to partner with you just to look at your research to see whether or not we can start building some type of you know research and data around that and something we can solution oh awesome well I send me the clip no everybody sends me their dissertation love it okay last question oh my hi um my name is Solona I was wondering so you talked about a lot of the universities and things of that nature have you looked more at like technical colleges and you know community colleges that have the associate degrees because they have a lot of programs there to help bring people up and they kind of know what they're doing in regards to that so like bringing in this to them I think could be extremely useful I used to be a director at ITT oh so and I totally changed the curriculum to make everything up on on the internet so that they have all had websites and portfolios and they graduated into jobs nice and so it's like open source has that same thing where you can just graduate into a job if you got the code already there correct so to answer your question yes so the pilot we did at those six schools but for this full program this year we're expanding it to any student it goes to a minority serving institution so that's for Asian and Pacific Islanders women tribal colleges Hispanic serving institutions as well as historically black colleges and institutions they can go to a community college or they can go to a predominantly white college as well if they are from an underrepresented background in tech specifically focused on women and racial and ethnic minorities in the US and we are already talking to Brazil about what does this look like to start introducing this into South America as well so community colleges are welcome to participate this year thank you thank you all so much so thank you both for joining us and for this the fantastic conversation very very insightful there's you know looking forward to hearing more about the program as it expands so so with that thank you all again for joining us for the Sunday morning keynote and thank you Demetrius for joining us as well as part of the skill family it is it is in the mail it will arrive at your home in in in Raleigh in a few weeks like I said supply chains are fun but in any case thanks again for joining us we've got the expo floor open to for another couple hours still two o'clock if you haven't yet done the expo floor bingo scavenger hunt passport game thing there's still a chance to win some fun prizes we'll be here again in this room at three o'clock with Dr. Vint Cerf and and yeah looking forward to seeing you all here as well as in Pasadena March 9th through the 12th is 2023