 Hello, my name is Alex Hor. We are starting a subcommittee, a session of the subcommittee on land use of the conservation commission. Commissioners present include Bruce Steadman and Michelle Lobb, myself, Alex Hor and Aaron Jock, and our staff. It is now 12.13, and we have an agenda item, an agenda to go through, which includes discussion of agricultural section revisions, outstanding policy questions, our next agenda is scheduling site visits. If any member of the public is present and would like to make comments, please raise your hand so they can be seen. Thank you. So I have my camera off and click to open Zoom. Bruce, you wanna start? Sure. I took what we did the last time and tried to address the issues that came up and I also went and had a conversation with an expert on some of these issues. We are related, the expert and myself, but he had some interesting thoughts. So in the very, the overarching thought is this is on the edge of so restrictive that he would be surprised if we got anybody other than hay producers to apply to do it. But having said that, he said, these are good things given that it's conservation land and that it narrows the strictures, it includes more things and it narrows the boundary of what's possible. So it's a balancing question, I think. So I would like to try to get to the end of this one for this draft and then be in a position to show it to Brookfield Farm and see what they say as an example. If there are other farmers that you think we can show it to, happy to do that. So I restructured it, basic policies, page two, getting how you get a license and what the limitations are. So all the different parts that were limits to what can be done and then some specifics about land use management at the end. If that feels like a good set of sub parts we can go through the details at this point. Any questions so far? Okay, so I suggest that we omit this section about the non-lethal methods only as we discussed before. Farmers are in the business of having lethal methods. But the farmers already have to adhere to state local regulations concerning predator control. Then there's the whole question, who's gonna enforce this? So that suggestion is sitting there to be considered. The licensee contributes to the cost of the sign. Yes, that's true. And then the community gardens thing, we need to tie it to the other part of our broader document because this isn't the place for discussing it but at least it gets mentioned. I see, excuse me, Michelle. Well, if we're ready to jump into discussing, I just wanted to comment on one of the things you just said, Bruce, but okay. The non-lethal methods. So you're suggesting that we allow lethal predator control essentially like a coyote. I mean, so what would that be like groundhog? I don't know. I don't have an alternative idea. It's one of the conundrums of this balancing question that we need to address. And if this isn't the right sentence, then what is is what you're saying. Yeah, I guess my only suggestion or thought is that since it's on conservation land, like killing off native animals for the protection of the crops and the conservation land kind of hits me the wrong way and that maybe those kind of things could be handled with like fencing and stuff like that. But I guess I'm not sure like what exactly an example is. So groundhogs for crops. I don't know how to do that non-lethally, but and then if there's chickens, which I didn't, I guess maybe allow that and then that would be like coyotes and bobcats and things like that. It could also be domestic animals as well. State law does allow that if like a domestic dog, for example, is attacking chickens that a landowner can protect their chickens if they're being injured. So yeah, I think that does kind of work. That's the landowner, i.e. us, not the land ranger. Well, it gives the, well, that's a great question, Bruce. I'm not quite sure. I think if it's the farmer who's protecting their livestock, I think is what the state grants protection to. Okay, we'd have to read the detail to see what the language said. Yeah, it gets pretty deep in the weeds on that one. Well, then I have a suggestion. Alex was first. Lethal methods is contrary to our mission statement. The first word is protect. So, yeah, I have a suggestion. Yeah, go ahead. Which is to leave it in and see what the farmers say because again, this may not be the only thing that they say, well, if you leave that in there, I can't do it, you know? And just let's get some reaction from people from the ground first before we omit a whole thing that was in there previously. Hey, Michelle. I just, I agree. Let's leave it in and see what they say. And I guess I'm also interested in what kind of measures they would propose to use if they wanted to use them, like poisoning or how it, you know, obviously it can't, it has to be pretty specific to what's causing the problem. So it's not just, yeah, thank you. Okay. So we'll do that. Let's go to page two. Wait a minute. I got a question. Oh. Could you specify just for the record what it is we're proposing to leave in? I guess it's the fifth bullet under basic policies, page one, protection of crops or livestock. And there's the first sentence of that section to leave it in for now and see what the farmers say. And just as a parenthetical note, we should discuss with Dave bringing this to the Agriculture Commission and see what they say. Yeah, he commented previously that the Agricultural Commission is defunct. Barely in existence. Well, fair enough. Let's check with him and see what he wants to do on that level of intertown discussion. Before we go to page two, at the very top. Yeah. You have a comment associated with the title. And when Brookfield said that haying would be the primary. No, I haven't talked to, sorry, I haven't not talked to Brookfield yet. This was my son who was an expert in these arenas. This is his comment. Okay, well, my comment stands. Haying in the spring will likely kill ground nesting birds. Right. And I personally have seen that and done that. Yeah. Suggest we consider time of year restrictions on haying. And I can tell you right now you will get pushback from farmers because it affects the quality of the hay. Sure. Well, he mentioned that actually he said it's plausible to do it with great care but it reduces the season. So, yeah, we have those issues in front of us. Let's, page two. Well, I realized in doing this I don't know what the application process is. And so we need to put something in here that says if you want to license this and let you do, these are the steps. I have not had time, Alex. I haven't had time to or have not prioritized the time to go check with the other towns about their fee. But I will do that before I send this off to Brookfield. Comment, I have a comment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On the fee, if you could somehow tie increase in the fee to the consumer price index or something similar to that so that it doesn't be complicated, that might be helpful. Okay. Give some consideration where that's an annual increase or an increase per term. Okay, that's a good one. I don't, Aaron, have you information for us about liability and insurance? I do not, I apologize. I was out last week, so I'll have to continue to try to get to the bottom of that one. Comment, Bruce? Oh, yeah, yeah. Dave addressed this and said it's a non-starter that liability insurance is required, period. Yeah, the question I think at the last meeting was whether one million was sufficient insurance. It wasn't a question of whether to eliminate the insurance requirement. Oh, okay, that wasn't quite clear. Thank you. All right, then there's a set of questions. Connor said that he thinks that it will defer people who can't afford 7,000 a year to pay for it. Michelle. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm just gonna move on to management plan. Oh, okay. Anyway, we'll work on the insurance question. Limitations. Bruce, on the insurance, it could be that they carry insurance. If they're a farmer, they likely have that insurance anyway. I doubt somebody's gonna take out policy just because they're on our conservation land, but if they have an existing policy, they would have to put in something that includes the town. I see a rider that focuses on the town. Okay. Michelle. Yeah, I just, before we leave this section, the management plan, I think it said something about this before, but do we have a current template or is that something that we wanna think about providing to them so we know exactly what the information is that needs to be and in part that could cut down a lot of back and forth or administrative work when they don't give us something sufficient and also sort of reduce the barrier to participation by at least providing some clear guidance. I like the idea. Erin, do we have a template for this already or we'd have to make one? I think we'd have to make one unless we used one like a former submittal, which I guess is potentially possible and I could see what we have. I do agree that some of the management plan requirements seemed a little intensive to me as well and I think that providing some general guidance would be a good idea to have as part of this. Yeah, even like a numbered list of things that need to be specifically addressed and map or plan or something like that, I think would be streamline things. All right. Erin and I discussed this second sentence in the crops and his advice is if you don't wanna have marijuana, just say so, but this sentence is both confusing and it could take you all over the place. Yeah, I don't see it. I was wondering, yeah, sorry, Alex. Go ahead. I was just wondering what is getting to no marijuana cause I was wondering what the crops that aren't allowed would be like what else, I mean, flowers. That's the question for us to figure out. Yeah, I mean, we also had talked about tobacco and I think it's just a matter of like we might have to think about that a little bit more and if we wanna have some prohibitions or something to specifically state them or maybe it's non-invasives or like perennial versus, what's the word, annual? Cause like for example, some farmers wanna do perennial crops and a lot of perennial crops spread. So that's something to consider, especially because if they're planting something, it's probably a non-native. So an example might be like an exotic mushroom or something like let's say somebody comes along and they say, I wanna grow mushrooms on this piece of property and they're planting a non-native mushroom, which is perennial and it has the potential to spread outside the boundary of the crop area because it's not like it's, you know, it annually dies because of the hardiness. I have a comment, Bruce. Yeah. This is a thorny issue, what to allow, what not to allow. For example, tobacco, some indigenous group may wanna come along and plant their historical tobacco, which is ceremonial and spiritual in nature and not at all cigarette tobacco or cigar tobacco wrappers. And so to put in, the bottom line is I would much rather leave it to the management plan and have it state in there and that's the first sentence. So maybe the first sentence does it and let the commission deal with some irregular crop that somebody might suggest and put off us having to define every nook and cranny here. Sure. Well, if you're comfortable, I will take out the two parts that are crossed out already and we can come back to the question of whether to insert later a specific thing that we are not gonna allow. I don't think that will affect the review process with farmers in particularly, but I can ask when I talk to them again. Yeah. On the bottom, we had a discussion last time about the issue of dogs versus wildlife. So I crossed out the wildlife, was that the right answer based on what we talked about? Yeah. I put in a comment here that I would hate to see us put ourselves in an enforcement position that we cannot perform due to budget or staffing deficiencies to make a promise that we can't keep is not being truthful. Yeah. And I do know deer are one of the prime contributors of contaminants to crops as well. So crossing out wildlife, I don't know. You gave us one example in Florida. Yeah, it was deer. The deer contaminated the oranges. I remember. We have deer all over the place. And I'm hesitant to say that deer contaminate crops. We have apple orchards all over the place where deer frequent and we sell those apples. So we don't sell drops, but to stand on deer here is wobbly in my mind. Well, how about we just leave out wildlife and see what reaction we get with what's there? Okay. I tried to figure out in the hours of operation, I tried to figure out about this. This is conservation land. All the other conservation land is only open down to those. But this is different. So that was my proposed solution. Michelle? I like your solution. And I just wanted to back up when we're ready. Yeah. That's something. So this is a comment, not necessarily like a specific suggestion, but I was thinking about bees because I think we added bees to this version. I did? Yeah. So my comment is that I think there should be some thought about where bees are allowed. And I did consult an actual bee expert on this one because bees do compete with native pollinators and specifically native bees. And honey bees are pretty bad for native bees, which aren't doing that well. And their suggestion was to make an allowance for bees but be thoughtful about like having it in a pretty defined area like Amphis Brook or Wentworth where there's also native flowers, native plants around to provide some resources for native bees. So there won't be like an influx of direct competition. Yeah. So yeah, go ahead. Oh, that's it. It's not, I'm not sure exactly what to suggest here but maybe like putting that in somehow that this should be just a consideration. So one thing that has occurred to me working on this is this is the policy and then there's the management plan and it could be that this template that we're describing would have the finer grain details. So under the section, what's the wildlife, check the box. And if they check bees note only available in these three places or that level of detail probably needs to be somewhere else than in this policy document. Okay, that's fine. I just wanted to make sure that it's remembered as it comes up because it doesn't always sort of ring bells for people when they think about bees. Understood, yep. Okay, let's see. So if you're okay with the hours of operation part adding that, then we go down to land use management and these are things we talked about before and my interpretation of our discussion is to cross them all out. So I did. So if that's fine with you, they'll, they're out at least on the version that we're gonna show to farmers being feedback. Comment on no till. I don't have any problem with encouraging no till. We're not requiring it. And it doesn't, it doesn't, all it says is encourage. And I don't have a problem with saying that we encourage it. I missed the conversation I think as I had to leave early but why did you guys decide to scratch no till? Is it redundant with the soil conservation section? I think it had to do with the reality that most no till farming requires pesticides. And herbicides. Yeah. And so we were, we didn't know what to do with that. Butting up against each other, that conflict. Well, Alex, are you, are you encouraging me to leave it in the way it was and see what we get or? I'm happy with the first sentence. It wouldn't bother me to delete the rest. I mean, it is, it explains what no till is. Right. I don't know if we explain other things like that in here. If people think it's necessary to, to say what no till does there's plenty of stuff out there that somebody could look up no till farming. It's been around since the late seventies. I guess my only concern about it is that the word encourage is given that no till almost always requires pesticides and herbicides, then in effect we're encouraging the use of pesticides and herbicides. You know, in the last, in the last discussion, we got into that there are some that are allowed under the rules for organic agriculture. Yeah. And we didn't want to get into what they are. Yeah, that's true. But. So the encouragement would be then to, to again in the management plan, they would have to explain to us how they were going to avoid herbicides and pesticides and still do no till or have some organic version of that. Which is very plastic. Yeah. We're going to go ahead. Well, isn't no till farming basically a soil conservation practice? I mean, is it like unnecessarily flushing that out from the above bullet point? Yeah, in Vermont it's required. My wife's, the dairy farm that my wife grew up on, they're required to do no till. And so they drill seeds and then the weeds come up and they spray rhodanone, not rhodanone. I did this before. Roundup. Roundup. So I guess what I'm going to do here is I'm going to drop the notion that there's a separate bullet for no till. I'm going to take the one sentence and put it at the end of soil conservation and see how it goes with reviewers. Okay. Then we're down to the last page in the section. Question came up as to whether there's also whether we should note the Massachusetts pesticide control act. In addition to NOSA, that would be fine. And let's see, if there's any other, Alex and several comments, have we addressed the things you'd describe here, Alex? Yeah, I read through this again and I'm fine with. I did make some, let's see. I know I'm fine on this last page. Okay. So. Oh, well, wait a minute. I did have a, I made a comment today about the 10%, this is under the third bullet. Yeah. 10% menianual flow. I described that as the sickest day of your life. In the last, and I would be interested in increasing that to 25 or 30% menianual flow. I totally agree with that. But I know you're going to get pushed back, but I seen our mission gets in the way if an irrigator causes the stream to come down to 10%. That's seven Q10 essentially, this seven consecutive days of lowest flow in your period. And that just seems to be contrary to our mission. We should make it 30 and see what happens. Okay. Yeah, 30% is. Okay. So Alex, this is has to do with the process of these different graphs. And I followed your approach of having the revisions on the top. If you add anything to your copy of it now that we didn't discuss or would it be helpful if you sent me your copy with the additional notes so I can incorporate them? Yeah. I'll send it. I'll send it. I'll send you what I have. Okay. I did write additional comments. I didn't send it to Erin or anybody. It was so I could talk from it today. And I brought up most of it, but I'll send it to you. Yeah, and then I can compare them. Then so the next step is for me to prepare a, the next draft that would, and then we will either, we'll show it to Brookfield. We will see if there's any agriculture commission people who gave things we should show it to. And if any of you have suggestions of other farmers, I'd like to get a hay farmer if we can find somebody to show it to as a representing how would this, how would this work for you if you had an idea you wanted to use some of the land? Yeah. Hey Erin, excuse me, can Michelle go ahead? Oh, I was just wondering if maybe Jeremy Watkins or Jeremy from Simple Gifts Farm might be interested. He's pretty progressive, an organic farmer and I know that they've experimented with no till and they're also on an easement of some sort but he's pretty engaging. Okay. Maybe he'd be able to do that. I'll look into Alex. Erin, there is a land developer who is on, does agriculture on town land. I can't remember his name. Can you help me out? He's a big land developer in town. Are you talking about Barry Roberts? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that he did agriculture on town land. I sort of assumed. Wasn't he the person who cut hay in back of the people that wanted to have the swimming pool that was too close to the well end boundary? Yeah, so I know he does some mowing on private property. Yeah, but I'm not aware of him on town land doing that. Oh, so that land there has a conservation easement but it's not town land? Correct. Yeah. Okay. That's a detail that I've forgotten. Okay. I'm out of it now going on to the rest of the agenda. Thank you. Aaron, are there any members of the public with us? No, there's not. Okay. So the next item was to discuss outstanding policy issues and Dave's not with us, but he has given us policy issues and I'll just take one, which is should we have more agriculture? And that seems to remain because we're dealing with the agriculture section and we're gonna have some field trips, which will help us come to grips with that question, although we can't actually talk about it while we're on the field trips. But I'd like to hear some discussion about how we have a whole list of policy questions and we have some on our, on our that are actually listed on our mission, but how do you wanna deal with the policy issues? Choices are do it during a meeting as a group, have somebody give it some thought and come forward with a suggestion and then react to that. What's your pleasure? Go ahead. I was gonna say, I think if we divide them up given our whatever our interest areas are and then bring proposals to the rest of the, the other four people in this process, it probably would get done sooner and we could make progress each meeting better if there was something to react to. Michelle? Sounds good to me. That sounds good to me too. So let's take agriculture for example. Since you're working on that, you might wanna give it some, perhaps you might give it some thought. And if I could drill down just a little bit to ask what are the sideboards? For example, in agriculture, are you gonna need to know all the land that we own that's suitable for agriculture according to soil types? What, how do you, what would you need in order to make a recommendation? That's a good question. Well, it was, it's just picking on agriculture but to somehow when we deal with these policy issues, we're commissioners, we have staff to help us and there are resources in the town of Amherst that we can draw on, but it would be helpful if we somehow put this subject matter in a box because somebody could get lost in the details of trying to come up with a recommendation. I think that was sort of my idea which I haven't made many moves on but sort of ticking off some or having some table where we can have a short list of properties that are relevant to each one of these policy questions. And I think for agriculture, that one's easier because it's a short list and Dave knows that off the top of his head what's been used, what can be used and his ideas were particularly suitable places but I'm not sure what it would entail for the next items. But as far as agriculture, I mean, I think Dave has listed them, right? Right. Aaron, you probably know them too and then he has some potential ones like Fort River, maybe Podic and there's crossover with community gardens, thoughts, potentials. Yes, yeah, so we had a, he had a prospective list and I think I added four or five to it. Right, okay, so what's another example of a policy question that someone should take on? I will take dogs. I've actually done, I'd like to have some time maybe to present some just data on ecological and maybe some public input and I know some other municipalities that have died very deeply into this issue. So I can do that one. I think the one that's gonna get more complicated is the climate change and early successional mowing question because that one really requires quite a bit more knowledge as far as like what's in grassland, what's in shrubland and what is our rotation schedule and that type of thing. So we might need more information from Dave and also from Brad on that. Everybody ready to put that on off a little bit so we get better at dealing with these things just for a little bit more. And that applies to the climate resiliency too because that's a big topic but really important and we need to, I mean, I'm interested in it but I feel like I should close out agriculture before I promise to do anything else. Let's do the easy ones first, not that they're easy but those are kind of, yeah, big, less defined. Yeah. Alex, you're breaking up, can anyone understand him? No. No. It says to have as input enabled close connection. Can't understand any of it. You're saying something about closed caption, but. A participant has enabled closed captioning, it says on mine. I just clicked that, it shouldn't have any impact on your audio though, that's a different problem. Yeah, that's a bummer, I don't know what's going on. Well, can we, if we can't get Alex, can we, the site visits is something you and Dave are working out anyway separately, right? You're gonna tell us when he gets back to the office what's possible? Yes, so Michelle sent her availability, Dave is out until tomorrow. So I will make a note to follow up with Dave. Him and I usually meet on Mondays and I have no idea what his schedule looks like this week. But I'll try to prioritize getting an answer, or at least maybe a doodle poll or something like that going with some potential dates. Okay. And sites. Thank you. Can you hear me? Not really, but we can understand you. Yeah. It's very electronic sounding. Well, while we're waiting to see what happens, can you see this book? Yes. There are a lot of citations in the index with the name is Jacques and Zonac. They're in canoes. They've been around for a while. This is a really amazing book actually. It is, it's wonderful. Can you hear me now? Yeah, there we go. This call is the only call that I have these problems with. I don't know what it is about this call, but I use this camera and this microphone all the time. All right. It might be the time of day. Aaron, can you send us the dates that Michelle can make it because we can probably look at those and tell you which ones work for us, which would save you a step when you talk to Dave? Yes. I thought, did Michelle copy everyone on her responses for availability already? I thought so. My only reaction was I can do it on Saturday too if that's what the rest of you want. Oh, I saw that. I thought you had actual dates. I had days of the week. I mean, if we schedule something early enough, I can put it on my calendar and I just had sort of suggested days of the week, but one of the big questions I had for you guys was are we doing these site visits in addition to our meetings or in lieu of or sometimes or just for my extracurricular time budgeting? If you wanna throw out some dates, Aaron, then I can weigh in on it. I feel like Dave probably has the most limited schedule. I'm kind of flexible. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of my concern because I know at the last meeting, Alex said it was really critical to have Dave there. And so I don't know his schedule. I do know he has a ton of standing meetings. And so I hesitate to say like, let's schedule like a Thursday at 10 a.m. or something because he may have standing meetings at that time. So I think I really have to circle back with him and nail down some days and times that work for him and then maybe send a doodle poll to everyone. I'm not really sure. It seems to me that might be the quickest, easiest way to get at availability and getting some dates nailed down. I remember Michelle saying she was available one to three on Saturdays. I'm not gonna suggest that Aaron or Dave do Saturdays. I'll just say I'm available. Okay. I could come, but I'd have a three in seven-year-olds with me. That would be excellent. It'd probably be pretty distracting for me, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. I mean, I just probably wouldn't be able to participate very much. Well, I also said in my email to Michelle, we're all trying to fit her schedule and I will bend over backwards to do that. I appreciate that, Alex. Yeah, I mean, with enough notice, I can be generally flexible that it's just I have that two-hour block on Saturdays that would be great if we could do it because we could go to a bunch of sites. Otherwise, I'm kind of constrained. But I think getting a few dates from Dave would be a good start. Yeah, there's no sense in having a field trip without him. Yes. So I think maybe that's as far as we're gonna go with that. But I'm not quite sure where it leaves us. Sounds like Aaron's gonna get with Dave. We've already responded to what Michelle- Is there another major section that we are kind of working on that we could work on next time? That's a great question. I know we were working on rules and regulations and that one's very high on my priority list just because I get questions all the time from the public. Like, is this allowed? Is that allowed? And, you know, so I would love to prioritize that. And I think it's on the chart, too. I did that when I thought I took it pretty far, but why don't I go back, visit it one more time and send it to you to be on the agenda so we can say this, we're taking it the next step. Whatever we wanna do with it, but at least we see it one more time. I recall that there were just a few that we sort of left unresolved like hunting dogs. I don't know what else, but... Well, beavers, camping, hunting, I'm happy to take on beavers. Camping needs some input on camping, but I'm happy to do with hunting and beavers. But we're also expecting comments back on the community garden from other employees of the town of Amherst. And I'm hoping that what comes back are comments and track changes. Rather than them coming back and having to talk through it all, it would be much better for us to just look at their comments and then if we feel the need to talk with them, do it. But maybe we can make quick work of them. So I'm expecting comments back. And I believe you met with Stephanie and maybe some other people on a Friday prior to Christmas. Yes, we did. We did sit down with Stephanie and we had a really good discussion. I know she was doing some markups and she was in the middle of working on those when we met. So I presume we'll get those back at some point soon from her. And just for the record on the camping, right now camping is not allowed on conservation land. And that's just for a point of information. Okay. Any, for information, any reason why? Yeah. So there's a couple of reasons. So we've had some issues with people setting up camp and never leaving sort of we've had some homeless encampments and stuff like that. And also people camping, leaving a lot of garbage, trash, not sort of packing in, packing out and also fires. People having like big bonfires and burning a lot of doing damage to trees and stuff, trying to cut up firewood. And it just, it kind of makes a mess and a big footprint on the landscape. And I think we've had enough trouble with it going back historically that it was, it previously was permitted, but because there was so many issues with it, it was prohibited. And so that's sort of the historical context. I don't feel a need to bring that up again. To be honest, I've discussed it with other projects at work. And for all the reasons Aaron just said, it's associated with lots of problems. And there's really just means more staff time for cleanup and damage to sites and human waste of all sorts and fires. So I think that I'm ready to put that one to rest and not bring it up again, but. Sounds like we went off. Yeah, looking back at a very old version of all this, I do find a section that I didn't look at this time around that does go into some detail about licenses and the application process. So my question is sort of answered about that. There is also a section on conservation restrictions and APRs that I don't feel like we've taken up that much, but maybe it's kind of dried and we don't need to, but there is something in there about that. Yeah, I don't necessarily, because I know we're about to end, but that would be a great thing for us to potentially put on an agenda as a discussion item, monitoring our CRs. And I know Michelle emailed me about that. So maybe we could talk about that at a future meeting. I know it's not on our list of deliverables, but it might be a good thing for us to just talk about and sort of brainstorm on. I'd really like to talk about that one. We've got one minute. And so I need to close up because we will end at one out of courtesy to other people's schedules. I'm available if we need to go a minute or two over, but anyways, I'm happy to do beavers. I've already written a whole bunch of stuff up. They're kind of already taken care of, but probably have a place in this document. And I also want to make sure we know when we're meeting again. Is it correct that it's two weeks from today? That's what I have on my calendar, the 16th. Not next Tuesday as stated in the memo we got from. Right, right. So it's every other week. Yep, thank you very much everybody. It's one o'clock. Okay, just to be clear though for the next meeting, just so I know what I'm to do or not, like what, who's got the homework? What are we discussing? I'm bringing back the rules and regulations part. I'm gonna, if I've gotten feedback from farmers, by then I'll bring that. Okay. And I'm going to bring back beavers. Okay. Should I put CRs on the next agenda, as well as the deliverables for the charge or do we want to keep CRs for a subsequent meeting? I defer to the chair. Michelle brought it up. I'll defer to her. I mean, we can put it on the agenda last and if the other ones go quickly, then maybe we could start the discussion and get some. Okay. Yeah. So Erin also on the agenda for next time is dates for field trips. Yes. But hopefully we'll get some dates before then and we'll know them. Like, yep. Yep. Okay. Great, got it. And I just on hunting, I called the fire department and asked them if they'd ever had any complaints from people with firearms going off too close to their houses. And I got no for an answer. So I'm not sure how much hunting actually occurs in Amherst and maybe a moot issue. The fire department and the police department. I'm sorry. I called the police department. So I don't know whether hunting is a moot issue, but I'm happy to bring that back, but not next week. We've got more than we can handle on the agenda already for next time. Right. Okay. Thank you everybody. Thank you. Thank you. Have a good day. I want to make sure before we get off, Erin, that there's no public on. Nope, nobody's on. Okay. So this meeting is going to adjourn. If we have agreement by the commissioners, it is one, oh, two on January. I agree. Thank you, everyone. Okay. Bye, everyone. Bye.