 Welcome to this special webinar that we're doing. It's actually a book launch, you know, and the context is very interesting. We often say that the media is facing the crisis of credibility, and journalists have been on the receiving side of that criticism. And of course, a lot of us have tried to do some course correction, do some introspection, but now there's a whole way of looking at it. Shri Alok Mehtaji, renowned senior journalist and Padma Shri, he has come up with his book, Power, Press and Politics, which is an attempt to look at media closely and look at the ways we can address this criticism. And with me today, we have some eminent names from the world of journalism who would talk about, who have read this book and they'll share their views. And Mehtaji is also here. I just want to introduce my panelists today who will be talking about it. We have Padma Shri, Shri Alok Mehtaji with us, who is also the former president of the editor's guild of India and editorial director of ITV Network Hindi. We have Mr. Anand Narsaman, executive editor, Network 18. We have with us Mr. Sachin and the multi resident editor of Malayala Manorama and the week. We have with us Ms. Rubika Liakath, news anchor, popular presenter and journalist of ABP. And of course, Dr. Anurad Batra, chairman and editor-in-chief BW Business World and exchange for media. Before we proceed and I ask myself a question, I want to request everyone to just put up the book in front of the camera so we can have a quick screenshot. That is the way we do the photo shoot, the group photo now. Absolutely, Sagar. All right, no worries. All right, perfect, perfect. Thank you so much for joining us today. I want to go straight away with my first question to Shri Alok Mehtaji. So give me a sense of what was the inspiration behind writing this book and what kind of impact are you trying to create? Thank you very much, Rohail. And thanks to all panelists, our good friends and colleagues in the media. That's why you introduced already them. You know, everybody nowadays talk about the challenges. Now we are facing more problems. The media is struggling, but I think Kachiran would be the, and he also did with the Malayala Manorama. We know since the last 50-50 years, or even 1,000,000 people, one can say 75 years, our senior colleagues from Maman Matthews also wrote about it. And number of either is Nihal Singh, Kuldeep Nair. I'll just remember those later. In Hindi, Rajan, Mahatma, Manohar, Shyam, Joshi, my colleague in Outlook, my senior colleague, Arvind Mehta, he's like that. So everybody was asking, this is the more challenges nowadays in this room. And we speak to the new generation who are in the media, including Rubika, I still feel connected. She spent so many years in media, but even then I think, she also asked, what is the problem? What is happening? People are asking that now we have more tests. So I thought, and our publisher, our publisher is very, Praveen Tawari, Tawari is editor. So he suggested me, why don't you write, your experience? Because I worked with the agency, Hindustan Thamakar, 71, even before that, one year I was in Nigeria, in North. Five years I spent in agency, then the decrease after I came to stand in the front line, then sometime in the Germany, three years, voice of Germany, then came back in time, then Hindustan, Pascal, Outlook. So I worked so many newspapers, then now in Nigeria, Outlook Hindi also, so I had different kind of experience and know how editors, editors build. Murthy was our secretary general and he always helped, and he is a pioneer in the field also, helped to put up a text also. And the question of paid news. So that's why we thought that we should write and contribute for the next generation, not even for the colleagues also, that our forward editors, they also have a lot of challenges. I reviewed them number of times on the television or for the magazine, for the newspaper. So I thought we should share the point of view with large number of Indian readers and outside also. That's why the Bruce Burry is an international publisher, we had part of it in the United Kingdom. And that's why I'm also thankful, I would like to mention, Kailash Satyarthi are from Nobel Laureate, I think everybody knows, he's a very scholar. He also read the whole book manuscript and then commented, Baman Mathew Ji was very kind enough because he was also president of the Aytas Bill, he was the secretary general and I was president because of him and other colleagues. Then British High Commissioner, earlier, former, Samar, he also read the book and he also commented about it. So I, because I wanted that the friends can praise it, but the real objective is people should know that in international also, people are talking about the Indian journalism and present context. So I think we will discuss more, I will not speak much, but I am very thankful to exchange for media, Anurag Patraji, because he also commented, that's why I mentioned to him, because I mentioned everybody, but Anurag Patraji, from the very beginning, and I always call him media mobile, he's not Robert, I don't know, but I wish that one day he will, because he has put context to everybody and that's why he devoted so much for media. So I feel, and he also commented about how it will be helpful for the mass communication institution and new generation of the media. So I thank you very much. Thank you very much. I want to ask you, Mr. Muti, at this point, having read this book, what kind of issues does it touch upon and the solution it offers? What is your reading of, how do you read this entire, you know, how do you sum it up, the entire book in your words? One of the great things about this book for me is I also started my journey just before the emergency, journalistic journey. So when I read the entire book, I thought, okay, I'm on a very familiar road. I've traveled on this road, but then I'm also going with a very experienced guide. That is Alok Mehta. That is, he's showing me newer sites on a very familiar route of journalism where I've seen the kind of changes which happened as he rightly notes in the book, the two big impactful events of our society. Our society itself has been going through a huge turn, the India which we knew every decade changes in the next decade. So in that, the media has changed and Alok Mehta has held a mirror to that whole changing world. First was the impact of the emergency, the kind of things. Suddenly we realize that freedom is very valuable. Then the economic reforms which made us realize money is very valuable to the media, money and power. So Alok Mehta holds a mirror to whatever has happened across. Like him, I've also seen the media and the interplay of media, power and politics at the state level as well as the national level. So in this book is a true reflection of what has happened over the last and how different kind of editors have come up, how they have changed and also the different kind of management. I mean, we are now today talking about startups, unicorns, somebody coming from nowhere and all that. But you look at the history of the media in the country in the last 60 years, very unlikely barons have come from very unlikely fields. People who are either in the newspaper hawkers or who are in rice business. I mean, all of us know about it. So the kind of publishers, the kind of editors who have come. So Alokji has looked at all these things. And then he looked at two models of journalism. But I'd like to say that there are other models which they're not emphasized because again they look more at the English press. But then the regional press has by and large has a different model from either the Times of India model or the Indian Express model which he has emphasized in the book. So that's that way. This is a journey for me. And I really, because the last powerful book of an editor in India, I remember long ago in my younger days, I read was D.R. Mankhekar's book of anguish. He titled it as know my son never. That is, he was telling his son please don't become a journalist. Don't become an editor. Don't enter journalism. It was a sort of a very, very dire warning that this is a very toxic profession. And this was written in the 60s if I remember. But then after that the kind of changes which have happened and Dalok ji brings in the entire history of Indian media for the last 60 years. So it's an amazing journey and I was very impressed by it. Now to the only lady on the panel Rupika ji your initial thoughts on this book what kind of reading, I mean what is the take away for you from this book? First of all, namaste adab to all the big list, please present here. Parmasri, Alok, Mehta ji is here and I respect him a lot and but he is not scared of anything when he knows that he is standing by the truth and with the truth. So this book is all about his experience. So look if I stand in front of Alok ji so I am just a tiny bit. So when I was reading this book and I was going through these chapters and pages like Mr. Murti said that it felt like this is a familiar place but what was it for me? It felt like I am at a place where a huge building has been built and Mr. Alok ji is telling that you know that earlier mountains used to be built here earlier there used to be a field like this and what I see is a huge enormous building but I am standing right there things are almost there earlier there used to be a house but things have changed Mr. Alok ji's book is taking me back in his memory lane and from today's perspective if I read this book many things are very similar which will never change we really wish we hope that things will change but they will not change now it happens that like many times in different chapters and lessons where pressure has been put and how that pressure has come out pressure has not always come from the same like Mr. Murti said that unlikely pressure from unlikely places, unlikely people you know pressure in today's history if I try to put it in straight words so what happens is that public here who has chosen a government for five years gets attached to that you know earlier it used to be that you have selected a government for five years when you are watching them work if they don't you will elect a new government but right now what has happened is that every single person who is on social media feels that they are attached to it whether it is a government or a party they are all attached with each other and instead of seeing them how they are working these in the election all the voters it seems especially on social media they are working you asked them a question you said something about them and it is happening on both sides so you know like our power, press and politics I think a public should have been attached to it too because now we are all after social media this becomes the most important thing by the way power, press and politics but as you can see due to social media the influence of the public has become very strong but when you read this book you will go into the old time and you will see the impact and Aaron will come because it is all he comes then he sits down then he thinks it seems like a movie is going on in front of you and I am sure people are going to enjoy with facts and the anecdotes right so we go to Mr. Anand Mr. Dr. Min so power, politics and press a heady cocktail first of all your take away from this book and do you think this still exists the title that it captures the reality of journalism does it still exist in that function Namaste to everybody and I am very very humbled and honored I have immense respect for such as Anand Amruti Alok Maitaji and Dr. Anurag Patra who identified how much the editorial bent of his mind or his head has to balance it with the business end and the talk about the golden ratio talk about finding that balance where you are able to do what is in the good of the public balance that with your own convictions and what you need to do and add to that this reality we need to understand that no media independent in the world and no media independent in the world until your dependency is that you are a cost center and you have to earn and until you have to earn until you have to see it as a business you cannot give it as an ideology in that ideological utopia that I am the journalist who studies journalism in schools we have to implement that but how much is this gradient we need to understand it from 4% to 20-25% the sphere of influence the less influence you have the less influence you have your face becomes independent but in today's history the meaning of independent has also changed I will tell you the truth Alok Maitaji's book is in my office so whenever I get the time the book is there and I have been on the road so I have returned home and today I am coming home that is why I don't have a copy of the book and I didn't read it but I have read it the first 20 years of your 50 years of your rich experience I have reached there slowly because from Maman Mathu's forward there is so much that it is fun to read it and the biggest thing which I would say there are 27 journalists who stood up during the time of the emergency those 27 people whose names were not read in any journalism school what was their position about those 27 people and what was their rush in any journalism school what you have written about Mr. Piroj Gandhi that is very important to understand people and what you had to bear in Virginia because you were behind the Forders Camp and you started saying about it and the way you were behind it you also need to see that the person who is familiar with democracy and the one who saves democracy how do you influence it there are many things when I was not in the general news I was a sports journalist so I have seen a lot how much influence is there there were many things and press was always because of politics and power and to find your way is a different challenge it's a different challenge on its own and the biggest thing and I think that is something which we don't realise that in the past what was considered to be the journalist elite and also the reading elite the thinking elite was only 0.1% the majority of this country was always addressed in a different way and that domination which happened and that control which was exercised in the regional media is a different story all together and the journalism is going on freely Bal Gangadhar Tilak his press KSRI what happened there in every part of our country we had to see what we want to call the shots but the other aspect today is the other aspect today and I am just going to pause after that is that you are now being called out for having your own idea of presenting or your perspective there is a truth in front of you if you see it from one perspective and present it from one perspective then you are independent but if you present another perspective to that and another logical rational reasoning then you are suddenly biased and you are not an independent thinker this I feel is wrong but given social media today given the ambit and the growth of new media today I think everybody has a space so we have got to decide whether we want to see obstacles like a dam or you have got to behave like a river where it finds an obstacle it finds a way out and continues to flow so I think that essence comes across that you find that balance and also find a way to go ahead and muscle on and back your conviction back what you believe in and that is something which is my take out from the book what I have read so far that if you have a belief that whatever you are thinking no matter what go ahead and put it out because people will appreciate that and people will respect you for that right and Dr. Bhattra how do you sum up what Shri Mataji has written in his book what are your takeaways thank you so much Roel first of all congratulations to Shri Alok Mataji for getting this book published it is an important milestone in the chronicling of Indian media by people who have been leading the journey I also had the good fortune of reading the manuscript before it was published and have read it after the book has come out and Anand is the first person to say that I have brain so thank you Anand for acknowledging that I have a brain I am not sure so balance comes later but on a very serious note you know when I read the book for the first time even in the acknowledgement and I consider that I am a student of media and when I read the acknowledgments in the book there were at least 6 people that I didn't know of when I knew of majority of them he signed about 36-37 people in that acknowledgement and I knew 30 and I didn't know 6 so the point I am trying to make is by reading this book somebody who is deeply interested in media who is deeply interested in politics deeply interested in governments and is also interested in how somebody like Shri Alokmata for the last 5 decades has kept his balance going and I you know he says what he has to say because he says but still there is a a balance a laziness that it is not offensive and in his personal life and professional life he is exactly like that so I would like to say that it is an important landmark as Warren Christopher said without the free and independent media true democracy is unable just said that the notion of free media is relative he didn't say it exactly like this but it means different things to different people and of course the background today is a little different so it's a book that was needed the chapters in itself are about very interesting people he talks about the pressures in the politics and the wealth he talks about the mirror to political power you know he talks about paid news and tells that it is not a new phenomena it has existed for many many years so it has not just come in the last one decade he talks about investigative journalism and sting operations he talks about what are the new threats to media and what are the trend versus the editor he talks about political and economic pressure you know political pressure manifests in terms of an economic pressure Mr. Sachinan Mukti would know that you know sometimes excess is cut off the advertising is cut off and you know that can create his own pressure how media is on the receiving end of attacks from everyone there is a chapter on that and of course how media impacts judiciary and how judiciary impacts media there is a chapter on that so it's a book that everyone in the journalism schools, media institutes, universities media planners Mr. Anand Narsimhan was a media planner before he became a journalist should read the book because you know it gives a historical perspective with chronicles and there couldn't have been anybody better than Padishree Alok Maitraji to write it so I am happy that this book raises a lot of questions when you read it hopefully it answers some of those questions and it takes you through a journey which gives you a historical perspective I think much more should be written about than media editorial professional, editorial leaders I think we need much more material literature and I am glad that Shri Alok Maitraji is here so congratulations absolutely I am glad that Mr. Murthy, Ms. Lyaka and Mr. Narsimhan to be here at the book launch so I am glad that we are doing it one day before the independence day and I am sure people will go on to become a reference point for a lot of people who want to look at the history of media over the last 4-5 decades absolutely and what a way the way that power present politics is a heavy cocktail it exists today also right there has to be healthy interaction but sometimes this healthy interaction can become unhealthy in more ways than one it can become unhealthy it can be lopsided and I remember about our news broadcast about this 14 years young but in the third or fourth I am not sure it was at the Oberoi Delhi and I invited Rish Khan because I am a very big news aficionado I watched 3 hours of news even today but there was a time I used to watch 5-7 hours of news so I used to watch a lot of CNN which I still do and I watched all the Indian channels of Corvallar to my home page but I invited Rish Khan because when I was growing up Rish Khan was this tall news anchor not literally tall he is very tall he is 6 foot but he was really tall and I invited him and I started doing this and there was a debate that he had with a leading Indian anchor and about should there be should the anchor be presenting his or her point of view this was almost 10 or 11 years back and Rish shared that when he was at CNN they would only articulate the issue and they would give both sides but he also acknowledged the fact that times have changed in the times where media is itself under attack journalists and we are at the receiving end of fake news we don't create fake news maybe a small section does but fake news is created by political parties it is created by vested interest it is created by groups that want to spread this kind of message we are at the receiving end of it we are not creating it except in some splinter cases but today in India media groups have an ideology people understand who has which ideology anchors have an ideology and you know it is a great area we can keep debating you should present both sides but where the viewer or the reader looks at the anchor to be able to decipher the world for them to their point of view I think that perspective is also interesting so you know it is not an either or case I just want to say that today also this heady cocktail of power, press and politics exists it is just the nature is a little different than what absolutely absolutely so true and what a day we have chosen tomorrow is the independent day and we are discussing something such a great significance Mr. Mehta tell me while you were writing the book you have captured so much in these pages how do you if I ask you which is your favorite chapter for example give me a is there one chapter of your favorite one take me through the process of while you were writing the book how did you decide was it tough what to write do you want to be this much candid you know what all was going in your mind while you were writing this book the number of issues because of the political and economic power people think that now the corporate Anand Narasimha also mentioned in the TV two contrasts Malayalam Manorama now they also have the television but the midst also targeted Malayalam Manorama even the congregate sometimes they are biased same in the economic process the Tata were there which I mentioned in the book in the states man he was also very senior in the HSG he was their third year so he in the memoir also he mentioned that how the Tata even Kulip Nair also mentioned about it also there in the states man are Birla's and Goenka's and most of the time I worked with Birla's I didn't work with Goenka's next book so that's why I wanted to say that the pressure always Manohar Shyam Jyushy famous name in Hindi, BGR English also launched first tabloid but in one day after emergency because of the pressure it was one good problem story because not even the article commented by it said he should be sad today itself and the whole day how do we spend Rani Ji and Bahora and others to help us Rajan Mathur also suffered different kinds of pressure Kamreshwar was very famous writer he was sad and even in earlier also the management they used to do not because of the political power even the Mrs Gandhi and then Mrs Gandhi came in power and he became the additional director of the leadership you have to face the challenges and this is one example what I mentioned the clipings of Chandraswamy he was very at that time used to stay in guest house of the time when I was not even I wrote about nobody objected Rajan Mathur allowed me to write about it because I was in Hindustan at that time he was very powerful he was very close to Prime Minister but I wrote about Chandraswamy nobody objected even even Rao he was so kind I wrote a book who after Rao Rao had gone in Hindi but he never objected he just said what is your friends fault I mentioned Madhav Rao from India Rajesh Pail Sird Bawar also but I was not banned from Sird Bawar but even then I said these people are part of your team they can be they say that every Prime Minister they have their own Prime Minister also people talk about it depends not because the Murti Ji is here regularly read the week very objective you kind of journalism sometime you criticize but you not criticize a person not criticize your system critical about the problems about the issue challenges but now what is happening in the ruling party that's why I mention about the paid news also at that time even the national news papers indeed news papers the bureau chief he used to ask money for I mentioned he was a journalist also that's why one can be a Godi media or Godi media or Congress media or left media to feed how you can fight with the system and survive itself maybe you have to change the number of writers they replied because of the pressure right Mr. Murti which is your favorite chapter in the book and why okay you know I would like to look at two chapters together because they both are somewhere related to each other one is the chapter 8 on the historical role of the editor's guilt because Alokji was its secretary general for 6 years president for 2 years and I was his secretary general when he was the president so we have been involved I think on the journey of the editor's guilt Alokji from the early 80s me from the 90s then the second is chapter 11 when the new threats and trends versus the editor basically Alokji I want to tell one thing one of his biggest contribution for press freedom I don't know how many people know about it when he was the president of the editor's guilt the biggest legislative threat of the 21st century to Indian media came in the form of the broadcast regulatory authority of India which was moved by the UPI government under Preregen Das Munshi as the minister for INB I mean it was a a piece of legislation which set up BRRI worse than what the IT rules now media is agitated about which would have allowed a police officer to enter any television studio sees the equipment sees the notes do everything and it gave all powers to the bureaucracy to control Indian broadcast media, television media essentially and so Alokji was upset by this he said what do we do about it so we both consulted senior editors and others and the so Alokji who knew the ways of the media as well as the powers he said Satyaji we have to do a similar tactic attack on this so I said what do you mean I thought we will hold a big discussion and go and tell the prime minister and others he said no because he said most of the television owners will not stand up to the government because they have their own reasons so they won't come and support it's not like the anti-defamation agitation of the 1980s so he said let's do something because and then the minister said he is calling a meeting of the stakeholders in Hotel Samrat of Delhi I remember so Alokji was traveling so he said what do we do I said one thing we can do is we can prepare a very strong criticism of this bill and put it into the public domain so we requested major newspapers because no channel was prepared to carry this thing because it was an attack on the government and they were dependent on wages so finally the Hindu carried the full text so did the Hindu times and other papers so the evening at Samrat was a meeting I was representing the guild so when Mrs Sonia Gandhi the chairperson and Manmohan Singh the prime minister read the guild statement they were really taken aback this is the vehemence of the elder's guild against this bill so they called Preranjan Das Munshi and told him so I was at that meeting Alokji could not come he was outside Delhi and I found that Preranjan Das was right in the face he was shouting and he said who is there from the elder's guild so from the back I raised my hand I am here so you are the guy who has done the mischief so I am here by announcing that Mr Sonia will not be part of this bill so which was a very important concession he gave but I found the big barons of Indian television sitting in the front room were very differentially speaking so that is where Alokji's leadership mattered and I am happy to say that in the last 15 years that bill has remained in the cold story it has not come through so of course I also provoked the minister by saying the ministry was working with an NGO mafia so they gathered a lot of NGOs they attacked the elder's guild but Alokji's and I said no we will stand by this because this is something which is important for a press freedom so I am just telling you about his commitment to press freedom and ethical values so when these two chapters on the editors because the editors now there are new threats and I was told a publisher director asked the editor so how will you manage MIS in a meeting so the editor was taken aback what MIS oh don't you know about MIS MIS is management information system so how do you keep the target reader circulation figure target how will you convert each journalist into a profit center I mean this is a kind of extremism maybe but these are the kind of challenges and threats which come to the editors so then they don't like I am this fellow told the editor see this institutional memory business I don't like oh we had this big success we had this big failure 20 years ago I don't want all now look at the future so this kind of more one more modern management where profit and influence and numbers matter so editors will have to integrate all that and have to function this happens in some publications and channels Alokji has written elaborately on the kind of pernicious thing on TRP ratings which the press council took up I had a committee on private treaties all about which he has referred in this book so the editors coming days will be more and more challenges and more and more but then how they stand up it depends on the caliber of each one of them so I am very grateful to Alokji highlighting the role of the editor because you know last 80 years as he said people have lamented that the editor has become unnecessary a newspaper had once advertised a journalist need not apply for the post of reporters but now that same newspaper wants the best journalist because it realizes that for profits numbers eyeballs they need good journalists so they are both I think the need for absolutely I think the need for post correction today is so important like never before I want to move to miss Liakit this book raises a lot of issues credibility and journalists being I mean not taking stand you know being true to what they do but you know in today's context I mean if we look at especially news presenters you know very well known faces like you are here and you are often when you are told you are a lot of criticism is thrown at you first of all I mean how justified are people in raising such points what do you like to tell them because the book raises these points and I am just reflecting it since you are practicing it and you often face this criticism because you are a public figure both of you so how do you face this criticism when people talk about credibility and taking stand and not being used to how do you respond to your critics sorry it's muted okay can you hear me am I audible so I am going to connect it the book there is a chapter called love hate relationship number 5 is this chapter in 20 pages Alok ji has told the whole journey that some editor some senior correspondent or some resident editor what kind of relationship has been with some politician and despite having such a close relationship he has published news against him and he has called he used to call he has been told how can you publish this in your newspaper or how can you write this in your column and how he has been dealt with I will just tell you one thing Anand was also in Kashmir I was there in Kashmir I met a very senior police officer one of them even today he says that journalists are not of anyone and this is the fact journalists are not of anyone they are not friends of any politician they are not friends of any businessman their friendship what you say is eye ball viewers are from them our friendship is from them this is our friendship and everyone says this is a game of TRP but nobody sees whose eye ball is it can I force those eye balls to see my TV can I hypnotize them so it is a two way relationship so what happens is that there are two aspects of every coin and as Dr. Batra was saying that you have to maintain a balance now tell me this that when a terrorist is being killed in Kashmir where should I balance this when a terrorist is attacking in your city where should I balance this don't tell that terrorist that I am a nationalist I am a militant I will have to say the truth where should I balance this so many times it is said that how can I Anurag Batra is a host we don't just say what we want we have a whole team a whole line and length the whole group will not come to the bus I know that our rule book my company has its own principles in my team my editors my producer in fact the interns have their own ideas we all sit together and in this we discuss this and that is when the anchor goes and says that and why can't an anchor so how do I debate I will tell you one thing Mr.Murthy, Mr.Mehta Mr.Nurseman and Mr.Batra are on the panel okay now from where there will be bias I have said let's debate I have said that this book is a hit I have taken a line I have reached the conclusion now I am coming back that Mr.Nurseman prove me that I am wrong that this book is not a hit I am debating if he doesn't like the book he has all the rights to say it on my program if I am not calling Mr.Nurseman or Mr.Murthy then you can say that this is a bias so there is no thought process behind this what happens is we the people from media become the punching bag there is no work from here there is no work from here so what to do it's so easy Rohail you picked up this phone and you wrote 4 lines on this phone you didn't think what is the work behind it what is the thought behind it how this whole program is made no if you if you belong to a particular party and believe me there is no government of that party so they will say this is a bias the next day if I ask the other party they will say you are a bias on both the sides there is a tomato in the sandwich which you call tomato it will press from here like Anand was saying but that will not stop us there will be a conviction and what is right for people when these two will go together then the Aristotle said that they were not journalists they will come in the right way that if you have a conviction and you know that this is right for people nothing will stop you right Mr. Nasserman when we talk about credibility and the way we look at it and we debate about it are we taking a balanced view or do you think we are unnecessarily bashing media which is caught in a complex situation what is a balanced view? like how people say that I am just saying we have schools for example your sense of balance your sense of balance your sense of balance could vary from my sense of balance could vary from different from what Alok methaji sense of balances or what such and such so if I am saying something you have the freedom you have the freedom to call me out and you have the freedom to try and cancel me but I don't have the freedom to say it so how is that balanced? so the point is and what am I saying if the argument is based on a particular logic is based on fact and a perspective you have the freedom to agree with that perspective or disagree with that perspective you disagree with that perspective can you abuse your right to freedom by trying to come out and cancel me out what he is saying is a little forceful what he is saying is sensible if you cancel him or not people will start listening to him so then the right to freedom of expression stops your freedom of expression stops where my nose begins you have to remember that it comes with reasonable restrictions the other part is that if we start bothering about the number of people who are trying to troll us or cancel us out then we will stop doing our work like I said at the beginning I said the one inspiration that I draw from people like Satchitana Mukti ji and also Alok Mitha ji is they have the courage of conviction and also the guts to go ahead and follow through that conviction we need to have that if I am not convinced if I don't have the conviction of what I am going to put on air just like Rubika was saying anybody or what they are going to put pen to paper so if they don't have conviction with their thoughts if they don't have facts to back their argument do you think they will write what they will do Alok Mitha ji or Satchitana Mukti ji or we will say what we have to say on our show I can't if you are making jokes on lies they will fall down at the end of the day it is a true step stand and this is what is irritating a lot of people who are just trying to create narratives and when you try to bust those narratives with facts and with a reasonable logical argument then they come back and then try and slander you personally the moment somebody gets personal with you you have actually won the argument the moment there is people who are reacting to what you are writing or what you are saying on the show that means you have a certain element of truth with you and you are going ahead and say see you can counter facts with facts you can counter argument with arguments but if I am intolerant to your point of view then how does that make me liberal if I am intolerant to what you have to say and unwilling to listen to you and I start branding you with a particular name or calling you a Dalal or whatever it is then how are you liberal how am I liberal if I am doing that so this is what the aspect is and this kind of political pressure which has been talked about the influence which has been talked about I have seen how Pyaar se kekar Puchkar ke kekar it was far greater far more I am witness to government ministers in the past calling up the editor in chief and dictating the lines which should go on the ticker on the bottom ticker of the channel and telling the person what debate you have to do tonight and what is the question that you have to ask that is the level of influence I have witnessed by those who claim to be the champions of free will and democracy so the reality is that at all points in time people who stand there on the courage of their conviction and argue on facts and call out the right issues will always face pressure and the other aspect is like I said and I am going to just say it again the pressure on the editor is immense and it is mentioned in Alok Jee's book and Sathya Dhananda Jee said is very true because they have to balance media as a cost center I am a media planner from an advertising agency's point of view media department was a cost center from a journalism point of view we are a cost center because we are not churning out profits we are churning out editorial and we all need to get paid at the end of the day so for all the businessman who is setting up a news channel that person has to earn from somewhere and those earnings will be directly influenced by those in power be it operates or be it politicians or governments of the day so in various state governments there is pressure exerted against certain chief ministers or certain governments in certain dispositions because there is an advertising revenue of the channel and the end of the month salary is coming from their money so please speak comfortably so this is not an influence this is a democracy so this is reality so like I said that that gradient it is relative 4% to 25% so as long as a media channel or a media group is closer to the 4% and it is in single digits you can perceive it to be largely independent and that the journalist will get a space what does digital media do today or a website or a platform like that too it allows you to put both points of view so Sachidanandaji, me, Alokji you four of us can pen four different articles on the same issue and all four perspectives are there for the viewer to read and invite so that's the sense of balance new media is allowing you to create so if there are forces from here we will try and cancel you out there are forces from here who support you and stand up in your support so somewhere there is like automatically amidst the chaos there is a balance that's created on a larger scale if you were to see and that's what perhaps today new media allows you to do it allows a Ruhi Lameen and Alok Mehta and Anandar Simhan and Anurag Bhatra and Sachidanandaji also to read everybody on a particular story and allow the viewer, the consumer to decide who they want to agree with or disagree I think that perhaps is the better way to look at it but pressure is always going to be there I will be marked by those who do not agree with my point of view you will be marked by those who do not agree with your point of view and depending upon who has the balance of power in their favor or who is politically stronger they will try and exercise their influence what is it that I can do can I decide how you should think but can I be convinced can I be convinced about how I think and continue to push that and eventually realize that people will appreciate that where you are coming from is based on just one simple narrative and that's where I respect Alok Mehta and Sachidanandaji that their core part is the goodness of the country as long as I say what is good for my country and what is not good for my country and I base my arguments, my stories my debates, my articles on that and reason, I think the rest will sort itself out in the long run but we've got to stay steadfast on that binary that my story is Bharat my interest is the betterment of Bharat and for me my country matters ahead of everything else and what is good for my country if somebody is doing even some bit which is good it's not because I like that person I just feel that that person has got the interest of the country foremost ahead of the interest of self, party, you know community, etc it's my country that comes first and as long as that is happening we'll back those people or we'll take that position I think that's something which I really respect Alok Mehta and Sachidanandaji for that and that courage of conviction comes from your love for your country and how clear can you be like that and then people will realize you may have to change jobs, you may please but you will always get that space which is an additive which is Bharat one well I just wanted one adding something because the regional press Indian language space they have more challenges, more pressures when sitting in Delhi you can have more protection you can release the government but there what Arun mentioned about it more pressure from Bihar to Kerala, Jammu, Kashmir or anywhere regional leaders they are more than anybody else that's why I am taking space also but even then Rohit just give me 30 seconds I was in Jammu in Kashmir last 15 days I have gone there 2-3 times and I have gone to the deepest rural parts of the country and I met local journalists who are doing work there you know what they are coming out and saying they are their perspective they are living in so much fear that they say that I write one line here I say one thing which certain people don't like they will target my wife, my daughter my sister my family so it's a game of fear which is being played out there not the game of freedom and then despite that they are standing there and then they are doing stories which talks about the beauty of Jammu and Kashmir the people of Jammu and Kashmir and the idea of working with the country working with the rest of the country so they are still doing it and I have immense respect for them but the fact is that the national media there has led them down by falling to a lexicon and a narrative which is trying to crop up and work as an apologist is a terrorist my friend the person who takes not caring for the fact that a 4 year old is dying or a 2 year old is dying and an innocent is dying that person cannot have any sympathy from anybody because that person doesn't care and that person is a terrorist that conviction we need to have that's where there is going to be courage to come to talk about the real issues over to you perfect so I just want to this chapter 11 in this book Dr. Bhattacharyu which talks about threats and trends versus the editor so if I talk about the new trends and the new threats in the news room the editorial room how do you see this you know first of all this debate between Saraswati and Lakshmi the editorial excellence and all the things that Mr. Murthy talked about you have to have Saraswati's voice and Lakshmi's voice so first of all you have to have viewers first of all you have to have readers first of all you have to be known for something sharp and every real editor understands that and I must say that now I run business but for 14 years I did run if I don't run it I'm gone of course editorially I read it I have a point of view on it but I must tell you that we will exchange from media by saying what we needed to say but we don't run exchange from media to run down our community I mean there are other sides who agenda is only to do negative stories about what's wrong with media what's wrong with media people where about marketing, advertising and media so I think balance is required intent matters as Rubika said our loyalties are towards readers if you don't give good content you will not have traffic you will not have editorial impact forget, all journalists don't just live for money they live for editorial impact how much impact their story how much impact they had how much action they had so that happens when there is some authenticity there is factualness there is factualness there is a sharp point of view so I would say that Indian media can do a lot better than it is doing now but as I said we are working in a very tough media environment and let me articulate why it is so tough when you look at broadcasting this has been around only for 7 years and for all those people who say that this government tries to control the media all governments do Mr. Murthy talked about Priyarandir Nagbanshi who is an enemy minister when he was the enemy minister I remember what you talked about very vividly so it is nothing new right so this is the first time that the old government tried a lot and controlled a lot everybody ways and means are different but today we have social media we have individuals who are following so you cannot hide a point of view it will get accentuated and let me say to our viewers that there is in a point of view if there is a certain right wing in the media so I think if you can choose what you want to read, watch, view so the choice is yours right so we can keep debating about it so that balance is needed and again Anand ask this question what is your balance definition I mean according to you it is balance by the way Anand and Rupita Rohit is Kashmiri now he is in Kashmir and last 3 months he has been working out of Kashmir and he is in Kashmir he understands the situation in Kashmir well we are planning a JNK media summit also but coming to his Alok ji's book and specifically about Alok ji we are all involved in the book we are all involved in the book you know Alok ji has been on the Inba jury for last 10 years 10 missing and I think he is the only person and you know because he brings balance he may have his personal view on this guy show is better but I have seen him in jury deliberation he is the voice of reason, point of view and balance I think when Mr. Murti, Mr. Nasiman you are approached for being I call you you took one second to accept it because of his respect and the fact how he engages with everyone so I just want to say that I have known Mr. Murti from the day I started I remember when and I would seek his view more like 17, 18 years back, 15 years back and again Mr. Mehta I admit and I think you know you shouldn't have personal animosity with anyone you can have a karmic view point also you can have a sharp view point but you have to distinguish as Mr. Mehta said the issue from the person the subject from the person and yes there is less tolerance we take criticism personally it is good and bad if we can use that to change ourselves if there is a real view point but I must tell you sometime I am not referring to anyone on the panel even the media panel media profession, journalist, editor media owners become like politicians they learn all the bad habits from them they cannot take a negative story but take a criticism I don't want to give you the name of an anchor and editor who did not come to Inba this year because some one and half years back some media did some story which I did not tell till the day of the Inba at first I was a small person I said what have you done I was very small so I said you are upset then after 10 minutes I was told why are you upset so I said you call me and I will remove you there was nothing personal about their show their show was not good I cannot give you the name but you know the point is it took me a lot of because I don't want a lot of effort to kind of get it out from it because journalists are also human beings they haven't come from Mars Venus even they are like Raktalala like everyone else so there will be so I respect that I see it as passion but sometime media professionals take all the wrong lessons like politicians but when they treat them they expect to do the same I run a B2C product in business world where advertisers are even one level up they cut advertising and when it financially hurts you it hurts your world so I am just to say in spite of all these tough challenges I think by and large the Indian media does a very good job there are areas we must improve as we go along the sea will keep going so I would like to congratulate you I would like to congratulate you and I am sure your book will create the right impact that it is intended to I genuinely believe that more books on Indian media and Indian media professionals are needed I conceptualized the book 11 years back but I haven't written it but I am happy my daughter's book is coming out and I just want to say in spite of the media people being very kind to me I have lost it that's more genetic it's not because of the anyone in the media has been unkind to me I just want to clarify that so back to you Rohit thank you so much now I have two anchors here so I will inspire them I will request them 30 seconds to answer them starting with you Alok ji sorry this has shown so many important points and everyone have expressed their views on it I would like to ask you what is your message what is your message to both journalists of today as well as viewers I think we should not just call journalists responsible as Mr. Narasimhan also pointed out what is your message to them everybody think that next generation should come in the journalism or not I always say India is such a vast country in the rural area what I think specialized journalism like if you are doing something on health because of the corona everybody understood how important education health and legal affairs I think we need large number of newspapers still there is scope in the rural area the city newspapers I think there is scope still because the national media we should not think only the Delhi I think there is a bright future for the Indian journalism still even after the challenges and people think that there is a no scope and now the social media is there but people will read people will watch people will also go on the different media or social media people will survive this is what I think absolutely I agree with Alok ji finally the people want more news and as Anand pointed out the elite readership percentage what it was when I or Alok ji came into journalism what it is there has been a huge upward tick in terms of people who are interested in news they wanted well edited news maybe the form of delivery will be different but news will always thrive and pressure will be there all I am saying is that we need good cholesterol not bad cholesterol so I think but how do we do the balance how do we work it out where to do that and Anurag has shown how he is also very important I think he brought in a new element of media what to this country where I certainly found that many non journalistic professionals in newspapers who never read anything would wait for exchange for media to read do the news there and then want to strategize themselves so I think he has also brought in a lot of Lakshmi to others through exchange for media great and I can see Rubikaji having one more speaker with us absolutely your thoughts Rubikaji on you know the pressure is only on the journalism newsroom side presenter side what do you have to tell the viewers the people who go to twitter and waste no time in criticizing do they also have a responsibility okay first I have to attend to this gentleman he is asking me who is this gentleman yeah I have to tell him what do you think he is the gentleman sitting here yeah he has written this book would you read it yeah okay okay okay so okay so I just want to tell these viewers not viewers per se you know Rohail it seems to me that the people who are cursing me they have not seen my show because what they do believe me Rohail so he cut that part of my show and he bibleed it but the the rest of the time what I have asked or heard no one has seen it and on that again and again they are going to you know call me names they will the biggest problem is if I could just take one minute okay I will give you ice cream Anurag sir is going to get ice cream for you yeah so just give me 2 minutes and then I will come see this is a viewer I am trying to say something and what he wants is an ice cream and he just wants to give you the ice cream especially my cold love is very expensive I remember the meme which is so relevant to what you said see it said I read a meme that my daughter sent to me that you can't make everyone happy you are not ice cream absolutely journalists are not ice cream we can make everyone happy okay it is not possible you can't please all the people whether in personal life in professional life people who have a pre-disposal I want to say our friend Rohit Sardana got married and after getting married people were writing on Twitter I think they need counseling they are mentally ill for such people that someone has gone what are you saying Mr. Bhattra I will tell you something people like us and I am sure they have paid to this and even Mr. Alok he has given so much time in Patrakarita and today when I talk to Mr. Anand when Mr. Alok sits even he gets annoyed but the good thing is Mr. Alok has 2 pockets if they have a secret then they have a secret against the government so if someone says Mr. Alok puts his hand in the other pocket and says so what I am trying to say is that I think like Mr. Anand and me all the Patrakars who have their own thoughts they are like a river Dharah, Prabha, you keep on you will not be able to put your feet on it so we will stop yeah ABP news please do watch ABP news so what I am trying to say is that there will be stones 1 stone, 10 stone or 50 stone will the river stop that big sea like Anand is saying I know where the destination is the betterment of our society and of our country now do you want to throw stones or stones right right Mr. Nassaman to you 2 minutes then I go to Dr. Bhattra for his final comment you spoke about how the new media is also giving you the opportunity of having these multiple voices and then they kind of balance what are the future forces that will define the newsroom taking on from what Dr. Maitaji has written in his book what are the forces that will dictate the newsroom I think reading and writing see twitter is a base of 3 crore people in our country we are a population of a nation of 135 crore plus so how can twitter decide who we are clubhouse is not less than not more than about say 3-4 million people who are there so how is clubhouse going to decide how society thinks and how we think what is going to happen is I can only urge I always used to but I think I have started reading more now and the more I read the more I am able to understand and it is credit to people like Sathya Dhanandaji that they write so the more people read the more they will be inclined to write these 3-minute shots that's a bad trend 3-minute shots are not the right trend they are the current trend but that's not the right trend television perhaps will somewhere become redundant newspaper writing or print the way we see as in broadsheets may not be there in the near future but these broadsheets will go on to the digital platform and there is so much to read if people who spend our life is now inside this one phone this one instrument which is a phone but there is so much information which is there and if people can read and if more people can write and people will read different points of view then perhaps we have a far more educated and more open society which also connects with our past see somewhere we don't read our past we are not being taught about our past we need to know where we are coming from to have a clarity about where we want to go and I think that's what's going to happen and I am hoping somewhere amidst all of this artificial intelligence and bots which are going to prompt you to see towards certain aspects there will be because if we choose of our ocean there will be a balance you will swing the pendulum here you will swing the pendulum there but somewhere you will find that golden ratio which is important and that perhaps will happen but for that we need to encourage people to write more, read more and then perhaps talk and I may say a lot of people in television journalism actually came from print I can give you 10 big examples but I can say 60-70% initially and I think you form a thought process when you write you learn your research you want to be sure and in writing gravity is the soul of it which also applies to television so I think the content neutral form will take over I just wanted to supplement what you said Right Any thoughts to you Dr. Bhattra keeping in view of what Mr. Mehta has written how do you see the future discourse around media what would be what would it be like What is the benefit of the media the government the government is called by the media no government I am not talking about the government alone as you know Satsikand Murti ji told that there are many examples I think first of all yes we can enhance our reputation there is some credibility loss as a community that we have had I think we need to bring it back that is the honest submission I would say some I am not talking about any individual or organization second is to stay relevant we also have to take up new areas and focus for example if the air quality should be only for two months the air quality does not have an important issue it impacts our children impacts our lives impacts our livelihood so why should we not focus more and more on environmental issues why are we not focusing a lot on mental well-being which we started to post covid these are two very big issues we also have to focus on what is the we all have become teenagers we are not teenagers but what is more screen time doing to all of us what is it doing to our children point I want to make is that for journalism to reinvent itself it will also go deeper into areas that we sometimes take as you know only once twice a year second there has to be a more follower India has become an activist in some way and takes up issues till they are brought to logical conclusion through a judicial process or some other action but we have to for example I talked of environment now again the issue of air quality will come in a few months then we will go for two months so I think making sure that this activism leads to action I think we have to become like that some owning an issue owning a story and creating an impact a lot of people on this panel do that in their own way last my thing is what Tanan said we are see if we want to be relevant in an era where there is social media where there are individuals who have their point of view in it will have to be sharper will have to be differentiated differentiated and last but not the least will have to be more honest than we are I have to say that that's what I feel and it's not a commentary on anyone on this panel but it's a commentary on myself I talk to myself this is me talking to me and you know we have to be more honest that's what I'd say and I'd like to congratulate you again on this book I would like all of us to hold it once again absolutely one more yes the screen version of a group picture absolutely thank you very much I'm giving company to Mr. Narsaman here right so congratulations again Sir Mehta Ji for this wonderful book it's been a long conversation I am 60-90 minutes away longer but we'll surely have more discussions and thank you for joining us today everyone on this panel and to the young reader who joined us at the end thank you everyone sorry for that not at all great to see him here and final words Alok Ji if you'd like to say a few words about the book and we can wrap up thank you very much thank you thank you Mr. Alok Ji you have a message from your father he is saying that you should publish it in Hindi so that you can reach the book as much as possible absolutely alright thank you all alright thank you on behalf of all the panelists thank you very much for doing this and for having us here thank you for thinking of us Alok Ji and Sachit Anand Ji always a pleasure thank you very much