 to visit the fifth in our series of lectures on sustainability. It's a pleasure to see you all here tonight under UCI campus. Over the past several weeks, we've had a range of speakers and they have made many references to the role, the critical role, here in the United States around the world of the business community, both in terms of protecting and reproducing unsustainable consumption production practices and also in terms of being the engine of change towards a more sustainable world. And the opportunities are enormous for the business community and for you as you decide to move into the business sector the opportunities for being part of the engine of change that is needed here and around the world is tremendous and today we're going to hear about some of those opportunities, some of the challenges that you face from a business perspective, some of the career paths that are most promising. It's a real pleasure to have a very distinguished panel and we're going to start off with... I'm going to introduce each of these people as they make their opening comments. I want to start with Dinko Anano. He's a senior manager at Toshiba America Electronics He has 18 years of experience in terms of quality management systems and environmental management systems. He's certified in a large number of ISO standards. He's a black belt, a black belt in Sigma-6 which has to do with management skills. He's been grappling with these issues for a very, very large corporation for many years and please join me in welcoming him onto the stage to talk about the challenges of sustainability from his perspective. Mr. Dinko Anano, thank you. So today we have a subject of business and sustainability as to what role business plays, how business is important to sustainability and also focus on what's your role. Why you are so important to sustainability. So these are the main features of developing countries. See what we're doing to our air quality. And this is what we're doing to a lot of water and animals. And why not? Again, you can say, well, these are developing countries not good to me. Well, you must price to know that the US is a metropolitan of these countries. You are most familiar with commercial planes. At any given time, there are 3,000 to 5,000 commercial planes for the US airspace. And again, I'm not including the air force, the cargo planes or the CEO planes, every other CEO is a plane of his own. There are 200 million resisted cars in the US. 100 million of cars resisted in the US. So you can see how much pollution we did well. You see, skyscrapers generates more carbon footprint than 4 villages of China or India. So this is what we're doing to our planet. The great time to address this issue was 25 years ago. We had just 25 years ago. But now the problem is, if you don't address it now, you're running out of time. This is it. Either we fix things now or our next generation is going to pay a very heavy price. So I'm sure you understand the importance of the critical age of what situation we are in. The only thing I can do is, on behalf of my generation, I can apologize for paying this good amount. You're sorry. But then we are handing you over a huge problem that we need to fix. You've got to be the smartest generation to fix this issue. So you've got to think that it's not easy. You've got to take this matter very seriously. So let's talk about that, yes, given environmental problems are global in India, let's dissect that what other nations are doing about it. It's in the common interest of all nations to establish policies for sustainability and that's true. And now the countries have been in detail. The biggest polluters are China, US, Russia. 80% of the pollution are created by two countries, China and US. And the truth of the matter is, you're not doing anything about it. China is not doing anything about it. There's no regulation in place. Oh, I'm sorry. No, no, that's fine. So I'll stand here. I'm sorry. I'm used to talking to people because they get paid to listen to me so they sleep all the time. Thank you. So, yes, it's given that it's a common interest of all nations to establish policies that sustainable development. That includes economic goals, social goals, resources which are very limited among the world. December, I was visiting these nations and first time I saw, they're not doing anything. So it's very, very important that we address them. And as you know, our record has gone very good even. The first environmental summit was held by the UN in 1983. In 1992, we have another one in Rio. Cape 97 in Kyoto and then 2002 in Johannesburg. We've been talking about it none other than anything. So it's very important for us to understand that there's no political commitment to solve this problem. The United Nations is the most administrative body as far as the moment is concerned. They're not doing anything. So you think we have lost the battle of sustainability? Well, we can't afford to lose it. The very survival of the next generation depends on it. So we just can't do it. We just can't pack a pack and say, okay, we do it now. So we've got to take the other round. All nations are not doing anything about it. United Nations are not doing anything about it. Countries are not doing anything about it. So that means businesses. Okay? Now all medium to big businesses are global organizations today. So if we can go that route, that is one way we can make a difference. For example, we're walking through the country so if we can influence small markets and other businesses to go green and ensure we make sure their suppliers agree that we can make a difference. So that is one way we can make a huge impact by making our businesses green rather than going through or waiting for a politician, waiting for a right president to come or waiting for nations to make enough regulations. Well, there are countries. They can't enforce anything. So I think the one way that we can address this problem is to our businesses. So let's talk about global organizations and supply chain. The most... I keep remembering what I did. So if you don't hear me, let me know. I'm in a habit of walking around there. So what influences the business most is the stakeholders, people who invest money in the business. Now there are two types of stakeholders that control the organization. One is financial institutions. Their interest is guaranteed return over a long period of time. So they're not interested whether your business goes green or you invest money in green technology because they are financial institutions and they would rather invest that money in the house. It is 30-year return. They're looking for that kind of investment. The other investors that invest money in businesses are mutual fund investors. Now these are the most powerful investors today. They have four-hour pension plan, hedge funds. They are the people who don't look at long term. They look at two things. They want higher return and they look for the market trend. They invest money where they think the market trend is moving and they can invest money and change innovation. For example, after deciding a product which will download music from internet, its stock was 28 to 35. And everybody was staring at the chance. Nobody wanted to invest money in that. They were thinking, how much is going to wrap up? Go belly up. But what happened? These investors when they saw that a lot of people, a lot of customers were downloading music, they knew there is a future there and started pouring money. So what drives business is these investors and they have tons and tons of billions of dollars waiting to be invested. Okay? But like I said, they look for two things. Political commitment. They do not have political commitment. Or the market trends. If they think the market is going one way, they will invest a lot of money in change of innovation and new technology. Now where does the market trend come from? Come from customers. People like you and I. If you stop using a registry or slash it by 50 percent, guess what happens? These investors are going to look at these electricity generators and say, hey, the trend is downwards. So they're going to take the money out and yes, they're going to invest it in new technology. So you drive the trend. Remember that. You are the most powerful entity if you want to make changes. Especially in the case of environment. It is not politicians. It's not countries. It's not regulations. It's you. You play a major role in changing the trend or the business wants to go. So, change in innovation comes. Yes, people invest a lot of money but people don't buy it. That's it. These investors take their money and run. But if you make it successful, so you've got to change your thinking. So you've got to start thinking global and act completely. Because the whole thing hinges on you basically. So you've got to start thinking global. And the thing where it is coming from. If it is coming from India, they have polluted a lot of it before they give you a five dollar share. So you've got to be approved and inspired. So you've got to start thinking globally and again, like I said, think green. How can you because all the American presidents when they go to the summits, the first thing they hear is, practice what you preach. That is the message every president comes back from the summits. That you are the biggest polluter. You don't practice what you preach. Don't come and tell us anything. If China is not doing anything for India, it's the same issue. Because we don't practice what we preach. So now it's the time for you guys to start practicing. Because like I just discussed, the whole world is basically helping us. What we do, they follow us. So if you start thinking green, acting green, they will follow your footsteps. Chinese wear the same clothes as you do. They talk the same language as you do. Same thing with Indians. Now the Russians they watch Hollywood movies, they just follow your footsteps. They do exactly what you do. So if you start acting green, they will also follow your footsteps on that. So it's very, very important. So now what is involved? So remember the fact is if you want our future generation to enjoy an early and a prosperous earth, then we must correct our behaviors now. It's very important that we must change now. Like I said, time is running out. So what is involved? So what am I asking you to change? It is just a little tweak in your behavior. That's it. The first thing you need to understand is that every activity you do interacts with your environment. Okay? And that is called environment loss. So you should know your aspects. Because anything you do, you take a cup, throw a round, the wrapper is paper. Comes from where? Natural resource. That's your answer. You throw it in a trash can and it goes through a landfill. They impact to the environment. Any change to the environment, whether adverse or beneficial, only or partially resulting from an aspect, is in fact so you should know how you're impacting the environment. Now if you take that same paper and put it in a recycle bin, the impact is good. So that's all I'm asking you to do. Know what your aspects are, know how you're impacting the environment. All you have to do is do more of good things, less of bad things. You have to trash that big, small piece of paper in a trash can which goes into a landfill, it's bad. If you take the same piece of paper and put it in a recycle bin, it will be reused. That's good. That's all I'm asking you to ask me to do. It's easy. Just that our thinking has to be our behavior has to change. Stainability is not very tough. It's easier to do. The only thing is we have to change our thinking and behavior, okay? We all use computers. Right? What is our aspect here? Is consumption of energy? What is the impact? It's a depletion of energy resource. Now we don't think about it. But where is this electricity coming from? It's coming from a thermal power station which is running on the pole with pollutes and a lot of things to give you the electricity which you don't even think before you use it. Okay? If you're not in a room like I've seen houses with all lights on, why do we need that? It is just I'm asking you to change your behavior. If you're not in a room, turn the light off. My son keeps his desktop on 24-7. Why? Right? You go to any city in America, the skyscrapers. All the lights are on. Why? That's all I'm asking. Think. If you're not in a room, turn it off. That's a very small, minor thing. And that's what I did in my company as we used or added sensors all over the place. If people are not in the room, lights will go off. That's all you need to do. Simple thing, let's see how much electricity is going to save. How much pollution is going to prevail. And talking about market trade, if all of us slash our electricity bill by half, just what's going to happen to all these investors? They're going to look, the trend is going downwards, they're going to immediately invest in alternative renewable energy and see, we will change it overnight. Just your behavior. And what happens with this money save? It's in your pocket. My home electricity bill is 100 bucks a month. When I started slashing it by 15, now it's $18. The air conditioning was on all the time. Hey, I want a house cool when I come back. Why? If I'm alone in the house, why do I do the air conditioning on all the house? All I have to do is take a small cooler, I can buy one from Walmart. Right? For $39.99. And keep it in my room where I'm using it. If there's no one else in the house, I don't need to turn the whole air conditioning on. We don't think that. In Windows, we turn the heat on. The whole house is here. Even though one person is in one room. It's just that we got to think that just by it's just money in your pocket. I've been fighting with Marguay for last year and a half. She wants to drive SUVs. And I said, no SUVs. She said, I'll keep driving camera. I said, please be my guest. I want a smaller car, which gives me 40 miles to a gallon. I'm not going to work. There will be no V6 or V8 parked outside my house. It's just a behavioral change. Why do I need a V6? It takes me from point A to point B, right? Why do I need 8 miles to a gallon of gasoline to go from point A to point B? It's just a way of thinking. My neighbor who drives a truck to go to his office. I can tell you the price of the gas by looking at him every day. When he's in a good mood, I know that it's $2. When he's complaining and in a nasty mood and yelling at his kid, I must have gone over $3. And it is. Why do you drive truck? Why do I have to drive a V8 to go to work? I couldn't understand that. I've been introduced in my office carpooling. Hey, there's somebody coming from your neck of the woods saying, talk the way or relax. So if I slash my gasoline bill for 50% who's a winner here? Speak. And I've cut down my gasoline bill. It's not difficult. And guess who's the strongest lobby in the whole world? It's the oil guys. Our presidents don't open the mall in front of them. And why? Because we all want to drive on independent cars. One guy or one car on a freeway and the three can go on the same car to the same point. We have to change our behavior. The biggest polluter in the world is oil and coal. And all we need to do to beat this we don't need politicians we just need to change our behavior. Why do I need V8? Half of the guys in Toshiba drive V8 trucks to go to work. Why? It beats me. So just think about that. The small changes we bring to our life it's going to impact our environment a lot and it impacts our business a lot because people are watching the business friends. If the gasoline use goes down guess what's going to happen? Suddenly the alternate cars go to Mushrooma. Because we have a lot of money waiting out there to be invested in corporate. They all watch you. If you don't change your habit they're not going to invest in alternate technology. You'll get a lot of press thing every time we want to bring all electric car. I've been hearing that for the last 20 years. I've never seen all electric car which is useful till date. They have the technology but they want to invest it. Because you guys are not changing your habits. At moment your business trend goes that people are being careful they're driving small cars and once the message gets to these investors the day people are going for alternate cars. Guess what happens? Let's stop making big TVA and P6s. So at all you are going to drive. So remember that. You are very powerful. So same thing with paper. It's a very minimal thing. We print everything. I like an article I print it. When I used to train people I used to print at 300 people at a time. Of course they all paid to listen to me but I used to give them handouts. And I know what they used to do with my handouts. But they read their office trash. So first thing I did was nobody is going to print paper till it's a must. I stopped printing paper. Why? How many trees are we killing? Just by printing paper. So think 10 times before you print something specially in color. So you are using that color that's again you have to building natural resource. So all I'm telling you to change not change is basically common sense. It's smart thinking. When do I waste a natural resource? Every time you order something from eBay or something it comes in a box. What do we do? We throw the box in the trash. Go to a landfill. Well start reusing. Packet material can be reused. Box can be reused to ship something on your model. Packet needs to be put in the garage. Reuse it. Recycle. Don't put it in a garbage or it goes into a landfill. Again it's not a huge change. This is then being nice to the environment for a class. So it's very important to think that way. So both of your students or you work in office kind of environment you consume electricity. And I'm going to slash my electricity by half. Is it very difficult to ask now? Because when you leave your room everything is on. The television is on. The printer is on. Your computer is on. Everything else before you go. Before you know you'll slash your bill by half. It's not asking a huge thing. Water consumption. You know water is a very precious resource. Luckily we have it raised before you start hearing we are out of water. Stop your 20-minute showers. Replace it with 5-minute showers. Right? In offices I put that hand sanitizers. So use the sanitizers. You don't have to wash your hands every time. Stop using tissue papers. Use hand sanitizers. Again small things. Small changes. It's a huge impact on the environment. You have to start thinking that U.S. is one of the biggest pollution in the country. I mean in the world. And how it adds up? All our activities in U.S. adds up to what U.S. reduces as carbon footprint. So as you know what a carbon footprint is is a measure of impact of our activities. It is measured in tons of CO2 equivalent. U.S. produces 6,000 tons of CO2 and that was 2007. I don't know what. 2008 to 2009. Now there are two kind of footprints that you should be aware of. One is primary footprint that measure of direct emission of CO2 from burning fossil fuels including domestic energy consumption and transportation and you have very control over that. So let's look at the ones that you have tried to control. Gas at home. Sorry. Gas at home. Again, you can snatch that bill back in 2%. But right now if you look at an average family in U.S., 50% comes from gas. 12% from electricity. 10% from private transport. 3% from public. And 6% from flights. Just make changes. Be aware what are your direct impacts and then you can tweak it. Okay. So basically what I'm trying to tell you that for example I used to fly 3 times a month. I haven't flown from business for last 6 months. What I do is I call a person train it and haven't trained everybody else. I can order people on the phone. I don't have to go there. So you can cut down indirect. You can see that. And if you just think about it you can cut all those things down. Why do you have to buy it pretty sure because it's cheap? No. So think about it. Where it was made. If it was made in India you see how much they polluted to give you that shirt. So the moment your business or your market trend goes down investing in the business changes you will break all your manufacturing back home if you listen to me what I'm telling you. It's that easy. Today all the manufacturing has gone to China. Tomorrow you will be in the job market and you won't find a job because you know why? Because all the IT business all the manufacturing business has gone abroad. You know why? Because of our habits. If you don't buy that sort of product it will not be feasible for Walmart to get that product from India or transport it all the way to the US. You will rather have a factory here across the street from because you paid. Investment is saying there is no point getting it from India anymore. It's cheaper to get it in the US. So think about that. It is in your hands. So some of the things that you can really use is good housekeeping maintenance practices. If you see something leaking oil water, don't let it go. Okay? Spill prevention if you are having oil chemicals at home make sure that you don't spill it or you have something to prevent it. Inventory management always know what you have. Just go don't keep buying stuff you don't need. Okay? Prudent purchasing like I explained. You buy something you need. If you don't need it you don't have to because just because it's cheap. Okay? Indians have business they have that photograph where they show of Walmart people shopping or other people are killing it. They are having fun on that because that's the way they know. Hey, you got to make more shirts. Okay? They say things cheaper here. Why? You know that? Everything is controlled by government. So they tell you there is a huge domestic demand. So you guys make your money in the domestic market take a head on the export and they are compensated by the government. So they sell things at a cost that is cheap. So that they keep you hooked on. So don't fall for that trap. So think about it before you spend another dollar. Every dollar you spend remember that 50% is being created by or either polluted or emissions were created on your behalf. Three hours remember that. Reduce, reuse, recycle. Make it as your mantra. That I want to reduce wastage and recycle everything. Okay? Now, this is one thing I want you to learn is you should manage everything in life. Okay? Management is the most important key to be successful in life. How many times you fell off the diet routine? Because you didn't manage it. How many times you promised yourself I'll go to the gym and it didn't go you didn't manage it. Now, this is a demo cycle it is called plan to check out. So remember whether it's environment, your career, use this. Always have a goal. Like sustainability is a very simple goal slash use of everything by half. When it comes to your career think five years ahead. Where do you want to go? Where do you want to be? Start planning. Okay? How do you get them? What confidence is skills? Steps you need to go to reach your goal. Do it. Then review it. Check it. What you did was right or not? Act on it. And then repeat the same. And you see that dredged? For Tushiva, that's me. I don't let them slide back. Because if you don't, for you, it's a discipline and dedication. Remember those two words. Double D. For me, it's a standard because I don't let them slide back. If they have to a certain level if they slide back, I give them help because that is it, violation to the standard to which the wheel is stopped. For you, it's discipline and dedication. Those two words if you think that two words there, you will always go ahead in life and never slide back. No matter what you do. Remember these two words. Right? So, environment management like I explained, it's all yours. You got to manage it. And this is again, let me, so these are the planning for your environment. I just want to make it brief. Education and awareness. That's very critical. For anything you do, especially environment. You increase your awareness, I just explain you what aspects are, impacts are. Then you conserve your resources. Slash your condition by 50%. Remember to make it a goal. Sustainability is meeting the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generation to meet their needs. So this is your goal. Okay? Thank you very much. I'm sorry I have to go. Our next speaker is an engineer who for the first eight years of his career was an imagineer at Walt Disney solving problems in the happiest place on Earth. He's now the Vice President for CTG Energetics. His own area of expertise is green building and corporate sustainability, large industrial development plans. He's been involved in projects around the country, including the building that you're all sitting in today. So please join me in welcoming Mr. Greg Shek. Thank you. Okay, thanks Richard. Make sure you guys can hear me. Yeah, I'd really like to just talk for a little bit from the perspective of working on the built environment, buildings in particular, and community planning both locally in Orange County and around the world. And just talk for a little bit and mostly interested in the questions you might have afterwards. I'm going to keep it pretty brief. CTG is essentially a sustainability consulting firm and just trying to answer the question of what a sustainability consulting firm is actually part of the challenge but some of what I want to talk about today are first, what are some of the reasons that businesses are pursuing green buildings and choosing to be sustainable choosing to make commitments towards sustainable development and how has that changed over time where do we see that going into the future and how you can contribute to that and help shape that future. The second are what some of the risks of that are and some of the risks of not doing it which I think is a really good comparing into talking about why businesses are doing this and why businesses are taking a leadership role in these studies. So first, some of these old school reasons things are definitely moving really rapidly in this area. Only five or six years ago my job was really trying to convince businesses why they should build green buildings why they should make commitments to being a sustainable business doing sustainable development. That's almost gone. I almost never have to walk into a room and try to convince them to build green. That part is pretty much is done. But a lot of it was overcoming this sure it's the right thing to do but it's going to cost me a ton of money the benefits are all squishy and so a lot of what used to drive it was basically prestige or companies had to believe in some of these soft reasons for doing it. Companies that thought they could get a reputation boost, good public relations from it that they believed in the environmental benefit even if the costs weren't well understood. Occasionally businesses were close enough to if it was more of an industrial process and they really understood their their operating costs they could justify it based on utility savings energy bills etc. And some of the more compelling ones were things like occupant comfort and understanding that for an awful long time you know people were going to work in buildings and the people that designed or constructed those buildings weren't paying a whole lot of attention to how comfortable they were going to be it was this is how we know to construct and build a building and at least cost and people will figure it out in terms of operating the building well and linking those two things together and realizing that things like enhanced connection to the outdoors and daylight and control over the thermal comfort of the space were really important to productivity. So I'm not going to get into any one of these but these have been the drivers for a long time and what we're seeing today and the emerging reasons are quite different a lot of businesses are doing it because they're now required to there are codes and ordinances City of Irvine has various codes the University of California has mandates for certifying all the new buildings as green buildings the State of California has mandatory requirements there's a new California green building code so a lot of it's like I said it's no longer a choice they have to do it which has created a whole new set of questions but some of the more compelling ones are a recognition that there's really increased real estate value some of the smart companies are realizing here are buildings or assets and not only are the buildings assets but there were people work and I can attract more and better employees if my buildings meet some of these standards insurance companies are starting to offer improved packages or lower rates for buildings that meet green standards in other cases some of what you've seen is you read about this on the news companies make big splashy commitments or in order to get a project approved they say oh yeah yeah it'll be carbon neutral and we'll figure that out later so a lot of the motivation is people have been making business commitments and they're just starting to figure out how to actually deliver on that and something that we don't have time to get too far into but there are those companies that are starting to realize reduce carbon impact by reducing energy and water and materials intensity can be turned into monetary value through carbon credits there is some carbon trading going on and there's a real strong emerging market of people in investment banks Deutsche Bank Goldman Sachs etc that are really working closely with businesses to value the investment they're putting into their buildings in the future as to what it might offer in carbon credits those are some of the emerging reasons and those sort of create a business case before I get there it's useful to note that you might have heard of the LEED rating system especially since several of the buildings on the UCI campus here have achieved LEED certification there's a lot else out there and in fact some of the campus housing projects have either achieved LEED or similar systems like this Builder Green as a California based system mostly for residential developments but there's a lot going on locally there are city programs the other had I wears I'm the chair of the US Green Building Council Orange County chapter and constantly working with municipalities you might be impacted by some of the city programs so there's it's gotten to the point where there are practically a myriad of rating systems out there serving the different needs of the various types of projects, building projects that are out there so how do those things combine to create a business case what is the business case for doing this and I try to break it down into four types of scenarios or categories and the first one is ultimately it's about showing that it's a profit center for a business that it ultimately increases profits and how do you do that it can be driving new sales and we'll talk about an example of that it can be reducing operating costs but ultimately a lot of what we're finding is that truly effective elegant solutions make people feel good about making these sorts of decisions and it's fun to make that sort of choice one of my favorite examples is if you can get Leo de Caprio or Brad Pitt to like it and wear it or what not that's your best one of your best tools right and one of the projects we're working on literally did that, they attracted Cameron Diaz to come and be one of the first Gaston loan behold as I would tell that just completely drove occupancy so it's not just about a message of conservation and doing with less it's about making something that you feel good about and delivers equally important if you get the building LEED certified but it's a pain in the butt to work in or to take classes in and you sit there and you're hot or uncomfortable and the building doesn't work all of that effort to make it a green building is out the window and it's not delivering any savings at all if it's not a good place to live and work or study the second case would be the fact that the technologies and the services that it takes to get there have rapidly matured and most of them are cost competitive it's been a real important factor is that a lot of the finishes and carpets and what not that go into a project like this aren't special anymore are becoming what the majority manufacturer is offering so that's a huge part of it the third piece that some of you may be interested in that as a much more social dynamic is that around the world there's a real focus especially driven by shareholder groups, investor groups and student groups on corporate social responsibility and institutional social responsibility and that's driving a huge amount of this and that's trickling down to if company will make a commitment to matching up to those sorts of programs and quickly realize the trickle down impact is that means it has to improve its buildings, improve the way it develops improve the type of real estate it purchases and finally the where I see both the immediate future and to some extent long term future especially in the United States especially more so in Orange County as it matures is in the existing built environment and it's going to be less and less about the flashy new shiny buildings and looking at the existing assets and for example one of the emerging skill sets that's just an incredible demand are people that can walk into a building and assess where there are energy savings potentials water savings potentials understand what's going on how the building works and similarly with with larger community systems and whatnot it's just an incredibly rare skill that's out there but is an incredible demand these days so moving on from that what's good to understand about that is there are risks to building green and these are some of the gotchas that have killed green technologies in the past you know really excellent things like the first electric car come out and there are little gotchas in there that can set it back 10, 20, 30 years and so understanding those risks is really important the risks inherent with the new technology one of my previous mentors liked to define a technology as anything that doesn't work yet you know when you're calling it technology a new technology it means it probably doesn't totally work yet you don't think of the landline telephone as a technology it's always there when you pick it up for the most part but cell phones still you know to this day with all of the stuff we're getting out of it you walk into a dead zone and it's useless right so similarly we've worked on a lot of projects where we come up with a really awesome zero net energy type of solution and some of what mistakes we've made in the past are realizing who's going to have to maintain that system when this thing is built and there's a great example of a nature center up in LA where the air conditioning system is run directly by solar panels it's not connected to the grid the electrical grid at all all the wastewater is treated on site but the people that inherited that building are a non-profit organization no real experience operating a high technology building and it's been a bear to get that building to perform and be comfortable and so matching technology with you know the people behind it is incredibly important the other issue we're finding is that since we've made this progression you know it's no longer about should I build green why do we need to build green it's okay I'm building green now really the issue is sustainability has to perform you know we have to meet the demands of of how society works how projects get done how investment gets made and so one thing I wanted to point out is spend a little bit of time in this graph because this is a study of 45 or so LEED certified buildings over the past decade or so and the things I want to point out are that up above that line you see a mix of basically all the the blue golden green buildings if they're above the line are saving more energy than was expected by all the analysis and studies they did during the design and construction of the building so there's a performing even better than expected the ones below the line are saving energy but a little less than was predicted by analysis the model and what not but there are a few buildings there's even a you know a few gold certified buildings that are using more energy than quote unquote a code you know minimum building right and so it just goes to show just doing the design analysis just making the commitments just using the right technologies or getting the building LEED certified doesn't necessarily mean it's having the desired impact and so most of our work these days is all about how are we making sure these things are performing and delivering all these savings we talked about right and so that's why I say some of those emerging skill sets are the actual verification and understanding how these things work but in concert with that is the fact that there are also risks of not building green and this is what I see a lot of business executives coming to understand more recently which is that for example in the architecture engineering in the design practices and in the legal practices there's this concept of kind of the professional standard of care and all the lawsuits you might hear about over building failures that really come down to an issue of did the people designing and constructing that building exercise appropriate standard of care and what's happening is a certain amount of sustainable design and construction and green building performance is becoming part of the standard of care and if you build something today that doesn't meet some of these minimum green standards you can be seen as negligent and that's an emerging risk that is really requiring the business decision the next is that you're just leaving a ton of money on the table because there are government programs there are utility programs there are local tax incentives there's all sorts of basically free money out there and it's, you know, you're negligent as a business executive if you're not capitalizing in that and getting the best return you can on your money the third would be just that failure to meet market expectations I imagine many of you, you know, expect UCI to be making that choice on your behalf in building classrooms that have healthy indoor environments and are responsible to energy and water consumption and whatnot you know, there's always an increasing of expectation the final one is that there are climate change related and resource material consumption related impacts we're dealing with right now today it's not about whether global warming is real or not to what extent we're dealing with a lot of those impacts today and that's a lot of the larger context of the center and the impacts on security and in the ways these are already impacting our lives and society and the global marketplace and so businesses are beginning to realize one of the best examples I can give you is a resort development in Lake Tahoe and they've watched the water quality of Lake Tahoe to grade slowly over time and there's a lot going on in that basin to keep what's special about Lake Tahoe and a lot of the resorts recognize that if Lake Tahoe is substantially less blue and amazing and pristine as it is today and has been, people will stop coming and certainly stop coming in the numbers and the real estate will be dramatically less valuable and so they need to recognize that as part of the business case for the resorts to operate so finally I just want to give four quick examples a couple of case studies of where this has happened so just four really different reasons why businesses are making this choice I've talked a lot about this some are making it purely for the cost savings. Adobe is saving over a million bucks a year for this large tower complex up in San Jose and the facilities manager guy is a complete hero not because he's a greenie or a tree hugger but because he's saving a ton of money and doesn't need to justify those decisions because it's a huge business and pretty simple and his main job now is going around giving talks and presentations rather than managing his own building because it's such a compelling story and people want to hear what exactly he was doing but it's really simple stuff the simplest example I can give is oftentimes buildings like this get constructed with really complex systems to control all the air conditioning coming on and off and lighting coming on and off if those things aren't really tuned constantly what happens is the engineers just put the thing in manual because they're overwhelmed and things are just running 24-7 that's why I say walking into buildings and finding some of those things out and being able to make some simple adjustments to taking the thing off of being full throttle 24-7 can be one of the most impactful things you do second, totally different examples project I just finished working on in Las Vegas this city center project with MJ and Mirage they had a vision of Las Vegas has this stigma of being completely unsustainable opposite of sustainable how can you have a green building in the desert and they knew if they were to build this huge new $9 billion complex they were pretty convinced it was going to fail if they didn't completely transform the image of Las Vegas and bring some commitments to sustainable design there's still some question about okay, they reduced their water consumption by 60% it's still coming from Lake Mead which has its issues I'm not explaining this project away but they made the commitment knowing that they had to transform that image it's up to all of us as to whether they did it or not but that was the main driver for them it was worth a lot of money for them incredible performance in that regard the third one is again totally different reason in some industries it's all about competition the automakers have been trying to out-compete each other for the greenest buildings and developments largely to overcome the stigma that their core business of building cars has the impacts it does but I want to tell one story that shows how a lot of different players can be involved in a really amazing solution we started working for Toyota on the carbon footprint and the energy use of their auto shows that travel around the country and they had 18 wheeler trucks that had to cart their auto show materials and whatnot around the country and so we started going at it okay we replaced the lights with LED lamps we got a lot of materials and things going and reduced it to 12 semi-trucks instead of 18 we thought we were doing great we ended up with okay we made a bunch of reductions but it's still a pretty big impact and they said we want to offset that we want to be carbon neutral so what a lot of companies do is they go practically on the internet and you can look it up you can offset, you see it all over the place when you buy an airline ticket you can offset your emissions for that trip they were going to buy offsets that would go into some pool to create hopefully some amount of you know, reduction or fund renewable energy and whatnot at the same time we were working with Clinton Climate Initiative on some grant programs and whatnot and at the same time Hurricane Katrina happened it happened within last year or so and fortuitously we put three and three together and the money Toyota was going to use to offset their emissions anonymously was funneled through nonprofits and was used to put solar hot water eaters on homes that were being rebuilt in New Orleans and what it did was just completely transformational people that were going to have to move back into some of this low income housing were very sensitive to their utility bill by Toyota funding solar hot water eaters on those homes that reduced their utility bills of those homes by 50-70 dollars a month that was the difference for some of those residents moving back being able to get off of food stamps or even move into the house to begin with and it's just that that's the kind of connection that's what I'm seeing moving forward that's hitting on social aspects that's hitting on economic viability of reconstruction in New Orleans and it's a way for Toyota to feel like we didn't just pay off our carbon offsets and something that's going to have huge trickle down impacts and the final case study really close to us over in Newport Beach near Newport Harbor High School other entities do it for education or to enhance fundraising so for the Environmental Nature Center in Newport Beach it wasn't about necessarily just saving money or this or that it was knowing that they could attract additional money to finance the education they wanted to provide by doing exemplary building and sure enough groups all around Orange County are renting out this space to hold meetings and elementary and basically K-12 students are there every day learning about these sorts of technologies and what not so there are a lot of different reasons you can go after it but these are some of the more recent stories and really encouraging stories I think about how business can take shape rolling so thanks for the time eager for your questions later on and now our last speaker today's session Dr. Kerwin Rottbacher welcome to the University of California Irvine distance learning demonstration of how to create well designed voice over PowerPoint online lessons what you're hearing me say come from my notes in PowerPoint you can print out the slides and these notes by and we're not exactly sure so we have to add that the slides you are looking at are from the PowerPoint online lessons template the narration you hear has been added by I will figure it out I'll just say a couple of words about Kerwin technological wizard he's the director of arts humanities and social science at UCI extension and a tour of California psychologist also the author of the book visualizing confidence right and he has designed implemented and oversees among a number of things UCI certificate in sustainability leadership hope this works thank you for having me thank you for having me here tonight I really want to thank you my thanks and appreciation for the Center for Unconventional Security Affairs for inviting me here tonight you know I know that a lot of what I'm going to talk about you may feel like doesn't apply to you because you really can't wait to get out of school and the idea of continuing education coming back to UCI may not be a really attractive idea at this point in time but a couple of lessons that I have learned in putting together these programs here and let me also say that Richard Matthew and Brian McDonald have been advisors to a lot of the work that we're doing here and also let me say because you may be a future customer of ours alumni get a discount on tuition at UCI extension how many of you are familiar with UCI extension know what it is a lot of people don't know what UCI extension is but we are the continuing education arm of the university here we provide a university level training experience as an education for adult students our main population is usually 30 years of age older up to 50 and even 60 for people who are looking for ways to retrain themselves to advance their career to enhance their career or to even change your career and all of our courses and our programs are UC vetted so the instructors are all UC vetted and the curriculum is UC vetted and in many ways we do extend the university into the community we have 35,000 enrollments each year we have 41 professional development certificates and a professional development certificate is 150 hours of study or more we also have 32 of them fully online 20 specialized studies program which are a little bit smaller and in 2008-2009 we awarded over 1400 certificates at our annual graduation ceremony so I like to say again that in the truest sense of the phrase extension extends the university into the community again our student body is really people that for whatever reason can't go back to school don't want to go back to school there may not be a degree in that area that they're looking for and anecdotally we say at university extension come from your ears the degree will get to the interview the certificate will get you the job because certificates often are very practically oriented they're grounded in research they're grounded in academics that are having here at the university but they're very up to date they're very applicable to an actual working environment and in fact I hear from many potential employers and say well we really can't find people who understand the theory and the application and so I know that an extension one of our goals is to really give you the application what do I do with this stuff how do I apply it I also hear from potential employers that when they're hiring you guys they're trying to find people who understand I get theory and application and know how it all works together so keep that in the back of your mind for the future if you're looking to brush up if you're looking to get some up to date information that can aid you in your career development where the guys for you again we have the capacity and the capability to bridge research that's happening here on campus and we really I try to keep up to date on what CUSA is doing what New Kirk is doing Environmental Institute many of the academic units as well and again bridge that to a professional community and we work very strongly with strategic partnerships and we certainly have a mechanism forward so what is sustainability we were talking about this a little bit this evening before you guys came in and many of us are very familiar with this definition here and we really take this to heart at the extension programs but I also like this definition as well that sustainability provides a framework for humans to live and prosper in harmony with nature rather than at nature's expenses protecting regenerating rather than degrading something everything that we care about a growing economy human well being security food safety transportation buildings energy is comprised undermined or lessen by environmental degradation so I think that's really true you know what I've also found because I've been around long enough environmental awareness isn't necessarily new in fact when I was putting together the program about three years ago I found a lot of people would say to me oh yeah I've heard of that I used to do that I was at the very first Earth Day in 1970 I remember that when I was probably about your age or so but in our country we do have a strain of thought that is environmentally aware and conscious I also was raised on the Chesapeake Bay in Virginia I remember in the 60's my father talked about the oyster beds that were dying in the Chesapeake Bay and that was something that I was raised with and understood so it's always been a part of my emotional make up and my professional expertise and also my personal interest as well so then what's got what's business got to do with it you know I have worked in the corporate community for a number of years before I came to UCI in fact I worked for Bank of America in 1984 and 1985 or something and you know I worked in the corporate philanthropy department I think I'd be a banker but it didn't work out for me at all and at that particular point in time corporate social responsibility meant just a couple of very basic things at the bank we had a philanthropic foundation that gave money to nonprofit organizations to do really nice things we had senior executives in the bank who sit on board of directors of nonprofit organizations because that got them closer to the community and we had volunteer groups and the volunteer groups would go out and do good things March of Dimes, Race for the Cure and that was about it because business said we have no role to play in corporate social responsibility there's nothing there for us however I think that that has changed you know and a lot of things I think have changed over the past 20, 30 or 40 years or so as well so I like this particular quote also I'm sure you all know Green to Gold historically corporate interest in the environmental area tends to rise and fall but this time seems different more and more companies have come to see opportunities for growth and profit through a focus on sustainability and I know that as I started to develop some programs at UCI extension I look for two basic things and businesses are coming to me and say how do we make money how do we save money quickly we know that there are some big drivers in sustainability in a very grand scale world population it's getting hotter flatter and crowded of course we know that as well climate change, oil legislation as I like to say is certainly driving the train down the track and a metaphor that I often use is that train is coming down the track pretty fast and for a lot of us we're laying the track as the train is coming down the track so at extension we have several different professional development programs that we offer sustainability leadership which is an overarching program I have a program in sustainable buildings that looks at energy efficiency developing a new program right now in community planning and development which bridges urban planning architecture looks at SB 375 all of those things as well certainly environmental management facilities management and light construction and kind of an interesting thing here when I started to develop these programs a couple of years ago, three years ago to be exact no one knew what the word sustainability meant everybody knew green oh yeah I kind of get that I know what that's about but a lot of people didn't even know what it meant now and that's what as one of my colleagues has said tonight a lot has changed and a lot has been moving forward but I find that very interesting you were talking about a couple of years ago you had to convince people you don't have to do that anymore which is really kind of exciting so in grants some of their extension programs what we try to do is provide an interdisciplinary approach integrating sustainability and environmentalism with business management strategy to achieve corporate social responsiveness and a couple of things I want to point out here interdisciplinary we were talking about this before you guys all came in today and that sustainability really does seem and it very truly is interdisciplinary when I talk to employers and they're looking to hire somebody they say you know I can find someone who understands the finance of triple bottom line but they don't have a clue about legislation I can find someone who knows about legislation and AB 32 and SB 375 they don't know what a marketing campaign is and how to integrate that with our corporate strategy so what's really intriguing is that as you continue in your academic career here at the university another question that Richard asks us beforehand is what can you do do anything you can do do all that you can do learn, go to seminars question your professors talk to them talk to other people that help you network into the business community to find a job when you get out out of here again it's about integrating it's about a systems perspective I know in most of my programs here what we're really trying to do and I think you guys are ahead of this already is that we are trying to help teach a systematic way of thinking now my colleague also here is talking about thinking and thinking influences behavior and I know in many of these programs here what we're trying to do is to educate and aware people and I think you have a head start on a lot of that about how it is all connected together and how to actually change your perceptions and your attitudes which ultimately change your behavior I'm a social psychologist and when I first got involved in this you know I just have an anecdotal experience from being an Earth Day 40 years ago but what I came to understand and that what we try to instill in all of our programs is that sustainability I think for me at its essence is truly about changing an attitude and a perception and once you change that then you can change behavior and again it's about integrating into strategy when in the business world a lot about strategy that's very important and I really am using the word more and more now of responsiveness I know the general term is corporate social responsibility but I find myself using the word responsiveness because for me when you say responsibility it implies that it's all their fault and all of the solutions are up to them and having worked in the corporate community that's not the way that they understand it but whenever business and the corporate community can respond can have a responsiveness to the issue at hand that is appropriate for their market share for their type of business for their global positioning their finance etc etc etc and what I've also found really interesting is that I have yet to meet a business executive who doesn't want to save money or who doesn't want to make money and so by taking this integrated approach interdisciplinary approach which changes your thinking your perceptions and your behavior you really get to integrate a strategy and I know from talking to many employers that's what they're looking for they're looking for thinkers they're looking for people who get it and know how to then do it a couple more slides here I know we want to get to our panel discussion we're currently working right now I've been working for about three years or so with a group of other educational institutions around the country what we call ASG it used to mean a small group but now we've got fancy that means action solutions and growth university partners from around the country in North America that are partnering to put together programs and in 2009 we educated over 500,000 students and offered more than 20,000 programs and courses the one that I am working on most right now is the decision making and climate change program I'm working with the University of Washington the University of British Columbia Northwestern University and UCI as well to create this online, fully online program for people from literally around the world that are taking so you know primarily my audience at UCI extension is the continuing education adult again 30 to 50, 55 60 years of age but I thought you might find this of interest that many of the people that come to our programs are highly educated they're employed in transition is a nice way to say they're looking for work or they're self employed we have people that are coming from all walks of life and what I'm finding is that many people come to me 20 years after you and that they're coming to me at age 20 or something like that and saying you know I had to do what dad wanted me to do I had to do what somebody else wanted me to do or you know I now want to do what I want to do for whatever reason we were talking also earlier that you have to have a vision and a passion of where you want to go and I like to say that if you don't know where you're going to go you're going to end up someplace else and it's probably not where you want to be it's where somebody else wants you to be keep this in mind again during your academic career right now follow your passion do what you want to do study what you want to study put it together in your way so that you don't have to completely change your life 20 years from now just a little word of caution or advice we have people that are coming to our programs literally from around the world all of my programs at UCI Extension are online California Cover and I have students coming from international areas of London and New Delhi many of the estates here it's very intriguing I even have younger students maybe such as yourself that are doing all their coursework on their iPhone so technology is here technology is making a lot of things possible but we may not have been aware of before and what's really interesting about using the benefits of technology is that we're creating truly a global community of like-minded thinkers here and that's coming out of UCI so again what I'm finding is that many people have a misperception about what online education is I'm not going to go into that right now but suffice it to say that technology and you guys know this you know you're using your technology all the time is a really efficient way of increasing your knowledge base just a real quick snapshot to give you just an idea of sort of the things that we do in spring 2010 I'm offering a couple of courses online green supply chain energy retrofits the green building bottom line there developing sustainable planned communities in summer of 2010 I'm offering a couple of other programs as well particularly one that I'm interested in is the bottom one here we are actually going to be doing a global sustainability leadership workshop on campus it is a residential program and it is targeted primarily to international business professionals but I might also add it's open also to domestic people in the United States as well I like to call it a boot camp a sustainability boot camp where you get the highs and the lows and everything in kind of in between here but what we're trying to do is again extend UCI into a global market looking ahead just real quickly I'm almost at the very end here a number of other programs that I'm developing at UCI extension transportation we know that water is a big issue security of course civil engineering food food is a very big issue there's no lack of areas that need a sustainable approach so thank you for your time I think we can get into time there and I think we're now going to move into the discussion, alright, but thanks let me invite the other panelists to come and join us up here at the table I have to say I was COVID introduced me to some of the online education I have to say it's very cool I've been expecting that in about two years I will be nothing but a live feed from somewhere else and we're going to be on the campus at first at least that's my goal let's sit down and I'm sure some of you have some questions please we have 15 minutes first do you want to start off you always, yes ma'am seems like a lot of the main driving supply chains in the cities and getting your t-shirts manufactured in India and elsewhere is the lower cost how do we start implementing it? well there are two things one is when you know the thing is made of rocks it's actually not cheaper that's the first thing you need to know the government is subsidizing you number two they're polluting a lot of the towns where they're making you the dying color is all going into the river so you have to compensate for that now if you buy things only when you need it buy when you must then they'll get the message right now the message from all the manufacturers and businesses no matter what we give these guys are going to buy it so if you go give this message to our businesses that we approve and buy it don't dump your junk on us so get the message business will start moving back which is already affecting the transportation cost they are trying to start working on that give me an example one of the products that we made in Asia because the customer was here was being shipped to US and then shipped back to China where it was manufactured and where it was delivered was actually a mile away where it was coming from US and going back so nobody is looking at the cost effectiveness where it is being made anything sold once we start looking into it then you will see it is cost effective to make it here rather than somewhere more place if you add up all if you put pressure on your business to be free and supply chain to be free you will see the business as you start coming back to US I just kind of want to take you back on what she was talking about I spent a lot of time looking at these issues behind getting, as you say, customers to demand products that are manufactured responsibly or we could say green if we like and it seems like in looking at a lot of this progression the driving force is you will save money especially when you talk about the buildings that we are going to build and how we can actually influence businesses to do this by money that they will save and it seems like, as she is pointing out that a lot of the reasons that we have these impacts and outcomes that are non-sustainable is because of our zest to save money by not covering the externalities and so when we simultaneously say listen let's drive sustainability through getting people to realize how much money they will save but then also tell them hey if you want to influence your businesses to do the right thing or to operate sustainably by costing more money that's a kind of disconnected message that I think a lot of consumers get confused about so that seems to be a problem to me that if we are going to cover these externalities fundamentally that means we are going to have to spend more money on the products that we consume so if we bring people into the sustainability even by telling them that they are going to save money they get confused by this and I'm just wondering if you guys think about this or how this particular conundrum can be most effectively addressed well yes I understand your question is it is confusing but like I talked to Richard earlier that if you start educating people early especially in schools that you need to look how the product is manufactured you have to be conscious of that you have to be environmentally conscious yes you might fail a little more but again like I said if you are a food empire you buy what you need rather than buy 10 shirts you don't need you spend more money then so you have to think in your head then I buy one shirt which is made in the United States which is environmentally safe and it means all the requirements or I buy 10 shirts which is made abroad where the labor might be general making that shirt the color that you are using is not safe so you have to weigh and balance what works for you like I said everything is buy you know like I was discussing you interact with environment so decision is yours eventually you need to take the decision but when it is you know it is made environmentally friendly manner here you have a control the quality control in environment control I don't mind you might not but a lot of other people may especially when the sustainability movement is telling people you should do this to save money and then you say but you have to buy this more expensive shirt so there is a bit of a disconnect in the driving force of the messaging system I agree with you but at the same time the person who saved 5 dollars on their shirt drives a V8 and spends 20 bucks there so overall you are going to look at the whole picture and that is what the business is trying to do look at the whole thing not just the whole thing I would add a couple things I think the you know it takes multiple there isn't one solvable solution and I think from my perspective there are some things that are inevitably going to global village supply chain and make sense there are some that are never really make sense like food you know the average produce item in the grocery store travels something like 1100 miles and often times we grow it in Irvine and it gets shipped out and comes back you know there are some things that just make no sense there are others that if you have done right you can see making sense like on that city center project there were some areas where we had no choice but to buy from around the world and you know our choice was to send people around the world and work with those manufacturers and say we want the low cost item and you can produce it at a much lower cost but how can we turn it into a win-win how can we make sure that our buying your product is investing in your employees at a living wage and meeting some of the same standards and it's certainly not easy because if you just say our US standard is what you should adopt that's not being very sensitive to you know local conditions but if you have that dialogue of let's have similar goals in this you know we want net environmental improvement and social benefit you know we don't want to get a lower price at the expense of your water quality and your people's quality of life and what not you know I think we showed an ability to have some success there the other one that I don't have huge particular to use in but Europe is using a lot as carbon taxes they're not doing so much a cap and trade tax system where businesses have an allotment to admit so much carbon and they trade that but they're saying all commerce is taxed based on its carbon intensity and when you so you know there's that natural pricing incentive but to the extent that that creates competing price signals is very real but I think the ultimately what we find is that that the kind of environmental movement has been a struggle with that externality for the longest time I mean I know I studied in college too and the the to me you know problem solving each particular situation and looking as far down that across the life cycle as possible is what starts to point you as to where the solution might like because sometimes it's no there's just no way we should ever be shipping food all around the world and have a mentality that I can always buy green grapes every month of the year and they just got to come from where the world can grow at it's eat seasonally with what you can grow locally you know and stuff but there are going to be a more technical nutrients like building products maybe where it's a net environmental benefit to view it so I think it changes I'd like to just add a couple of comments they're kind of bridging what Greg was saying you're right sometimes it's nuts it doesn't make sense but sometimes human beings don't make sense as well but it kind of brings what you just said how many of you go to the farmers market across the street maybe on the weekend university center you know I've talked to a lot of people you know I really love organic blueberries so I go over there I'll go to another farmers market you know when I find out the organic blueberries were flown in from Chile when it was 747 so it's nuts you know what are we doing here so I think a lot of it is for me education as well naturally I come from a university so I didn't think it's education and an awareness to really question and to really ask those tough questions you know human beings are able to hold cognitive dissonance in their minds where they can hold and it will fall simultaneously even if they're directly opposed but you know I think again that goes for me attitudes and perceptions questioning and saying why am I buying blueberries from Chile and they're not seasonal here so I think you're absolutely right yep please so you guys have mentioned that the I guess the we need to make our personal decisions and consumptions and that like choosing not to buy a good blueberry I guess push the businesses to respond to that demand that we give them so I guess my question is how do the businesses actually gauge our demand do they how do they know what we want I mean we can choose not to buy a t-shirt from India but they're I mean they're not going to know that and so what methods I guess they use to really gauge what the consumer wants and do they just wait until they notice that this product isn't selling really well like why is that or do they I mean I would say quickly let your voice be heard tell them most organizations or products they have health lines or customer service you know and so let them know yes don't buy it don't buy the Chilean blueberries no I'm not going to do this they'll eventually get the message but also they have more formal ways as well let your voice be heard one thing I'm hopeful about is it's I know it's a huge buzzword but social media does seem to be changing that a little bit the signal is getting much more current for a long time I know a lot of it was focus group driven essentially that they weren't necessarily waiting putting the product out there and then really reading are they you know it was more like sat down you know six people for a week and they told us they were representative and this is what they wanted and they make big decisions based on those sorts of things and I know for example it's baffled me sometimes some master plan community decisions get made based on these very theoretical scientific studies of they break down the population into these cool names like cultural creatives and winners with heart and all these things and they design this is our mix of homes we're going to build because we've studied the population and this is the way they go right so the seeping into that corporate culture though is you hear terms like viral marketing social media and those signals are starting to make a difference and the only specific example I can give you is for the city center project I know that they put a lot of early feelers out in terms of condo buyers and they were shocked that the number one most frequent issue that was coming up was green sustainability for condo buyers and you know they tuned into that and they really listened to that but I think the the only other example I can give you is it's really about the products they realize things have to work and have to appeal to multiple senses the first generation Prius was not that successful the second one wasn't dramatically different other than it was just a better car it was more functional and so I'm rambling a little bit but I think the opportunity I see is that the information is ubiquity in the world and the leverage of some of the social media tools I think really is creeping into business strategy decisions I have to add to that to your question most of the businesses have a strategic planning group that looks at the environment the business upgrades the business upgrades in the environment the main factor is the customers what are they doing technology where it's headed and trends so they look at those factors before deciding whether to design new products like their custom design so you look at all those factors most of the businesses today look at all these factors do you agree with the factors what we say in the microphone oh I'm sorry so you heard what I said so what I said was basically most of the businesses today have a strategic planning group that looks at what the external environment the business upgrades most of the businesses have an external environment that they need to constantly watch one is what is customers doing what is competition doing what is technology doing what does market trend do so they got to constantly look at those factors before they decide for the next year to plan the business sustainability I work for a law firm and we don't we're going to be terrified but we're trying to make our company a whole more sustainable we're changing our behavior and we're changing a lot of our drives to more simple things but all the electronics and stuff that we're trying to get rid of to be more sustainable ways sites aren't taking and if they will take it we're trying to charge us we're trying to get rid of it so it's not very cost effective to for my company now to be kind of sustainable due to the extra costs to just throw it out that's also the beauty that's what we're trying to place so do you have any suggestions on what can be done that's already established clearly you're talking about e-waste clearly you're talking about e-waste e-waste has a massive there are a lot of companies which offer free recycling of e-waste like Best Buy is one of the many firms they announce it they advertise it on this Saturday from this hour to this hour you can give your e-waste to them and they will do it for free so there are a lot of companies a lot of businesses that we are fortunate Tushiba also is one of the best companies it's kind of a mix of regulation and local issues there in a lot of the waste areas we're still in this area of transition where just recently there are manufactured take back programs where that's either required or some are enterprising and doing it and what we've seen is we're still in that kind of transition zone where there are some businesses that are willing to make it to do that recycling and reprocessing and whatnot and something happens like the economic trouble of the last couple of years and some of those businesses go away and if it's not somehow government mandated or regulatory your ability to be environmentally responsible can go up and down or the cost tree to do it so that's where we see public investment in that and some cities are better than others I do know that most cities do have periodic collection periods as well so probably the best option is not relying just on the waste company but either city programs or manufacturers that will take a variety we have time for one last question this is the generation of the other question I noticed that a lot of people want to do something new in the building they hear about that it's good to change all the light bulbs and to do little changes that maybe can save money but the waste that we are producing is there and when I started working on this company which is property management I noticed that they were throwing away all the light bulbs that they are really dangerous because they have memory but nobody knows what to do with them I told them not to do it but now they don't have place to put the light bulbs anymore and it's just a lot of waste just to try to the transition from the regular to the green is really creating a lot of waste that honestly we don't know what to do with it I know it's a big challenge I mean we our whole business is sustainability consulting we struggle with the same thing but I guess two thoughts one is some of that is the responsibility of the designer again it's the catching that early on in the process and the concept that I think is most useful is creating technical cycles and biological cycles if any of you write cradle to cradle natural capitalism there's some books that get into this kind of concept but you know thinking about when we decide what materials to put into the building thinking through what is going to be the life of that material and that's something that just hasn't happened and we're going to have to deal with that for probably still decades to come until the building stock turns over once or twice but I think the there is a growing recognition that it's not enough to just say you have to recycle there have to be both specific education programs and you have to make it something that's that's easy and thought through and provided for just in the design of the building the providing for the ability to segregate that kind of voice within the building lots of things but it's one of those there isn't a silver bullet answer until we start from the beginning designing for what's the the end of life for every material we put into a building or a car or a problem Please join me in thanking tonight's panel if you're in sustainability one please regroup here in 15 minutes thanks very much