 Hi, it's Cory Doctorow. I'm back at the UCLA Law School for the Copyright Office's Triennial 1201 Exemptions hearing about the Digital Learning Copyright Act with Jay Freeman. Jay runs Sidiya. Sidiya does some stuff that helps people get more out of their iPhones. And Jay, I know you were on a panel at the earlier round of these in DC about jailbreaking. So maybe you could talk about what Sidiya does and what you talked about on your panel. So Sidiya is an alternative to the App Store for jailbroken iPhones. And I tend to describe it like that, because Sidiya is not about apps. Sidiya is a system that allows you to install modifications to the operating system. It allows you to install modifications to other running applications. And it does all of this in a way that doesn't actually require making a permanent modification to that software. It instead is all done in memory on your system while it is running. This is very different in some ways when people will talk about, for example, having things are rejected from the App Store. Instead, we're about extensions, kind of like you might see with a browser extension. And what did you talk about on your panel? So during that panel, we were talking about extending the existing exemption on jailbreaking, which is defined in a particular way of being able to make modifications to the functionality and software and particularly to be able to disable functionality on a device, which previously had existed for mobile, all purpose computing devices. And we were hoping to expand that to include voice assistance tools, including things like Google Home, Apple HomePod, and the Amazon Alexa. And as you described some of the mods to me the other day that Cydia enables, you know, press two buttons to turn on the flashlight and all kinds of great stuff, it struck me that what you were enabling was what we might have called a few years ago a kind of long tail, that one side doesn't fit all. Can you talk about some of the interesting ways that you've come up with for making iPhones work better for specific people? Absolutely. So that long tail is very important because when you think about what Apple's looking for something features that will make everyone happy. And they have to come up with features that everyone will be able to understand. And so what we're enabling is the ability for an individual developer to essentially scratch their own itch in a way that just confuses everybody else. A really funny example of this is that, so yes, the iPhone keyboard is a great keyboard. I mean, I love using the iPhone keyboard. Some people really like hardware keyboards because the hardware keyboard is something that you can use while you're sitting in your pocket or you can maybe while you're not looking at the device, it'll be easier to calibrate on it. But what if I told you that there are people who can type in Morse code faster than you could ever type QWERTY on a tiny little keyboard? And so we had the ability to just have integration of Morse code keyboards well before Apple had anything that was a lot of you custom, they didn't have custom keyboards until iOS 8. And so that was like eight years of time whereby if you wanted to have a modification like that you need to have a jailbroken device. We have extensions for people who are blind that allow them to more easily use the voice assistant tools. In some cases, it's to extend that voice assistant functionality into applications that previously did not support it. We have modifications that enable specific workflows that people have related to the email application because the Apple's email application is set up with specific power saving functionality because essentially it's tied into the way that you push notifications actually, I guess maybe a little more complicated to try to bring up, but yeah. So I know that Apple's argument is that they just can't make a good phone if you're allowed to override their choices. That once you, if you let people tick a box that says let me make up my own mind that all the elegant design would just run out of that check box like you pull the plug on the phone. Can you talk about the right to repair legislation and the right to repair movement and how you see people like you who want to get more out of your iPhone and help other people get more out of their iPhones interacting or living side by side with people who are happy with the choices Apple made? Absolutely. I mean, so the first thing I always just find that argument comes up very often and it oftentimes does come up from Apple and I always find it a really strange argument considering that the device was, I would describe de facto open for many years after it launched. We had found boot ROM exploits, exploits in the core software that is running on the phone that is very difficult if not impossible in some cases, rappel to update. And because of that, for the first around four to five years of the iPhone's existence, we typically had complete access to the device. Anyone who wanted to get installed relatively easy software made any modifications and yet the iPhone became a popular platform that everyone wants. And so the idea that they need control that they never had in order to build a popular platform that they did succeed in building almost seems absurd to me. But now to continue your, I mean, answering your question, you talked about right to repair and I think that that is just a very important thing. These devices are built out of very expensive underlying raw materials. But a lot of these raw materials are essentially now being strip-mined in other countries and these are things that it's just so many interesting complicated issues with relation to recycling, with relation to just destroying these raw materials with relation to just the trade interfaces with other countries. And the idea that people are essentially going to, like they buy one of these devices and then after four or five years Apple stops making software updates to them. And now you're unable to essentially maintain that tool that you have. You're, as people start to find issues with it, you're unable to fix those issues. If you accidentally break the home button you're unable to repair it. And so instead you just throw it away. And of course Apple has a repair program and I'm sorry, Apple has a recycling program but that recycling program only recycles some of the components of the device. And the vast majority of the device is still just something that is like this precious artifact that just ends up getting destroyed. And so the right to repair legislation is something that is, I think it's just very important both for like the future of humanity in a way but also from this perspective that when you own something it's not something that is, that can be taken away from you either by accident or that can be taken away from you by other parties deciding to stop support. And so your view you've talked about providing access codes or other systems that would allow people like you to keep those cars on the road, to keep those phones in people's pockets. So what did you have in mind? Well, so for me a very important aspect of this is that you need to be able to change all the software that's on your phone. If there are mistakes or flaws that are found in the security of your phone you need to be able to be able to fix those. And in cases where Apple's releasing software updates that great, that's great but Apple stops releasing software updates after some period of time. And yet this piece of hardware which you spent hundreds if not a thousand dollars on is something that was just suddenly you're almost like afraid to use. And so if the owner of the device not any random person but if the owner of the device was able to once the pin code unlocked the device install an arbitrary replacement operating system on it that would give us a large amount of flexibility in order to be able to maintain that device over time. Whether it be that you could just install tiny, tiny modifications that are running in memory for that software not distributing a new copy at all but just modifying in RAM the running version or which requires essentially being able to bypass some of the modification checks or whether it is to replace whole sale that operating system with a more open replacement. Well, it's great. Well, thank you so much, Jay. I really appreciate this. It's great to finally put a face to the name. Same here. So thank you so much. Thank you.