 Good evening everyone. Welcome to the July 13th edition of Durham's Community Safety and Wellness Task Force. I'm David Cason, one of the co-chairs. And just to set the stage for tonight's meeting, we have a very limited but deep agenda today. We have three items. We want to consider the possible reconstruction of around tables. We want to consider a timeline for recommendations. And we want to talk about bringing more community voices into this Wednesday 6 o'clock space that we call our Task Force meeting. We are going to use this meeting as a work session. We've said that before but it really sounds like lectures. Just talk this out. We don't have a lot of things set in place because we want that to be the result of this, of our time together. So, we want to be a lot more interactive than we normally are. And we appreciate all the expertise that's around this table and all the tables that we find ourselves whenever we're together, whether it's in our round tables or just informally supporting each other in our work. I'd like to pass over to Marcia for her greeting. Thanks. Thanks, Xavier. I was just, you know, reflecting on what is the value that could hold us in this moment, hold the center of our time together. And collaboration came forth. Collaboration with the community, collaboration with the government bodies, collaboration with each other. And so, collaboration sound okay? Everybody agree? Yeah. Okay. Beautiful. Thank you. All righty. I'm going to turn, Sam, does, Xavier, does that make, you know, first up, any, any announcements? I don't, I don't think. I can't think of any announcements from my, if anyone on the Task Force has something that they want to remind us of. I have a quick announcement. Okay. There's a group called Hacking Into History that is hosting a free virtual workshop tomorrow from 6 to 8 p.m. about racially restrictive clauses on property deeds and how that impacts racial inequity, gentrification and the lack of affordable housing and you can look them up through Hacking Into History Durham. Fantastic. Thank you. That's great. So with that, I'll turn it over to Samuel. Sounds good. First, I'm going to pass it to Alec to kind of set the stage for the conversation. But just a brief comment to Monju's announcement, I've actually done some reading on some of the deed restrictions in Hope Valley. Some of the frightening stuff that we're doing back then, but and how it connects to today, but I'm passing it to Alec. Oh, hey, good evening, everyone. Good to see y'all. Happy Wednesday. Happy summer. So Samuel and I have been tasked with really just kind of opening up a question that we would are going to kind of support facilitating around the discussion of whether or not it makes sense to open up another roundtable and what that roundtable might could look like. The context for kind of initiating that conversation is that on behalf of the kind of SRO roundtable our crew is slowly kind of wrapping up in terms of gathering the data. We have work to do in terms of analyzing the data and making recommendations, but we feel like we mostly exhausted the folks that we want to hear from that being kind of caregivers, students, educators, and principals. And so, you know, there's been, you know, again, we've kind of been tasked with opening up the conversation of whether or not it makes sense to shift some of our responsibility to thinking about another roundtable. I guess I'll prime the pump a little bit, but also do want to have just kind of open conversation and see where folks heads are at about the prospect of opening up another roundtable that is focusing on youth outside of the context of like the SRO, non SRO school context, right, so kind of out of school. Yeah, young folks outside of the school context. So that's, that is only one proposal that I that that I'm aware of but I think this is kind of an open conversation. Samuel anything I'm forgetting. I know you had some things that you want to mention to but anything I'm forgetting in regards to kind of setting the table a little bit. Really, I think one of the main things is, I guess kind of group agreements before we go into the discussion. So we're having the idea of a couple of things one being called step up step back. So if you typically, you know, take up the conversation space, try to, you know, allow others may not normally speak to have the opportunity to speak, as well as the rule of two so try to allow two people to speak before you before you speak again just to make sure the conversation is, you know, moving to a lot of different mouths as opposed to being from a like maybe two or three people. And then another thing is also just, I guess, for me as a young person to provide a background for this I mean it's also important to not only think about the perspective in terms of SROs but as we're trying to you know, expand this, you know, view this perspective on youth life. I think it's important to look at areas like mental health resources. That's something that I come across with when I'm talking to a lot of my friends and stuff like that. Just outside of the school context. So making sure those support systems are, you know, robust and that they're reliable, and also extracurricular programs so it doesn't have to be school clubs it can also be outside, you know, sports groups basketball, or really anything to that nature those things are really important. So those are just like other ways of thinking about this, as opposed to just you know, thinking about, you know, what is youth life in the context of SROs or within the context of schools. So that's all I have to say. Yeah, and then I will say I will add that I floated, I floated this question by Jesse this morning, and inevitably the question of time timing and timeline came up, which is on our agenda for tonight so I think it's impossible to have this conversation without thinking about where are we at and where are we going. So we'll try to, you know, Samuel and I will do the best we can to kind of hold space for the question of time timeline, as we think about an additional round table but yeah, other than that we want to open it up Xavier said we've got a good 2025 minutes to have this conversation. So I can kind of keep stack just by way of people raising their hands in the in the little chat and we'll just go from there. Jesse. I'll just add to Alex since he mentioned our earlier conversation. My gut reaction was mixed. I think having sat with it for the day I'm supportive of the focus on youth. And can appreciate. Can appreciate the possibility of that kind of focus. I think my main concern was what it would look like wondering what it would look like to adapt the round tables process in consideration of the timeline since we're more than halfway through our process and at this point I'm less interested in extending our work. We're interested in finishing our work within the time. I understand that we have currently allotted. So I'd be supportive of a youth focus around table that really thought critically about what they could do within, you know, the next six to nine months. In terms of listening and recommending listening analyzing and recommending. And also I think I'd be mindful of like how whatever that work would potentially be like a baton pass. I don't think that any of our work will end once our task force ends. And a lot of ways we are continuing work that had begun before us, you know, people pass the baton to us. So I think I'm okay with being a shift if we're mindful of that baton pass sort of strategically and also if it's just energizing I know this work has been tiring for some. And this might be a way to help people engage more meaningfully for the remaining month. And if that feels strategic as well then I can be supportive. So, yeah, that's some thought. Yeah, thanks Jesse. Yeah, Marcia. I just when I think about it's, you know, it's looking focusing on you with the two roundtables that I serve on. We're we're touching it like for example, our next recommendation from the criminal legal system roundtable. We're really looking at abuse neglect and dependency court. What is that you focused on the office of survivor care. Must we need to have a youth focus in that office right. So when there is a violent incident. We are asking were children exposed were youth exposed. What have we done to respond. How are we caring for youth. When in crisis response right. When people go to incidences of harm in crisis. Being able to have not only the attention for children, but a response. I think that that that we should do that as a, and also, I know my friends on the roundtable of the violence interruption and de-escalation is, you know, Dr Boone is totally committed to you. I mean, so we've got people in that roundtable, they bring an enormous amount not to mention Samuel being a youth, a very mature youth. You know, just, it's great. And so I think there's places where we just, I think it, I think it strengthens us all. I'd like to hear from, you know, I mean, does that make sense for those that are roundtable. Marcie mean other criminal legal system roundtable people you're asking. Or well I was thinking like, in general, the other roundtables like it because we know we've got that and then the survivor care and also I mean I think the bail bond stuff. I mean, one of the questions we should be at, you know, with muffins work, you know, when you show up if you're going to be in jail, do you have children? Are there children at home, for example? Are we going to be looking at truancy? You know, what are the things, what's occurring that puts our children and youth at risk? Out of grads, just say to Jesse's point, we've got so much to, we're already trying to cover on our roundtable that a dedicated roundtable on youth issues is exactly the kind of thing you could take up those youth related issues that we're engaging but do it more completely than we have the time to. So we can stay focused on the work we already want to get done in our lifespan. And they could, they could take a run with those more youth focused things that we've already encountered and come up with. And we can send them, you know, ideas and we can meet with them and we can send them experts that we've engaged on those topics, but let a new roundtable focused on that, take a kind of holistic look at youth wellness. And I would imagine other roundtables might have a similar, have encountered similar issues that are kind of on the outskirts, outstretched of their bandwidth to deal with, with everything else they're trying to accomplish within our time span. Thanks Mike Manju. I just wanted to lift up a conversation that keeps recurring for Durham Beyond Policing with parents who share that when they are trying to find help for their young people. And I want to keep hearing from Durham City and Durham County sources that like official sources within the system that the only way for their child or youth to access resources is by catching a charge and getting caught up in the system. And so, and often when we're asked how we can, when we ask how we can be most supportive we are referred to talk to folks who are deep behind several carceral layers and it just, and when we're looking at how folks are receiving resources to do youth work in Durham. It's like very piecemeal and very scattered and in very small amounts. So I'm really excited to hear the idea about a roundtable that would be proposing a real policy shift I would hope towards something that's more supportive and preventative and helping all of Durham's children and youth be whole without ever having to encounter the court system or end up locked up. Thanks Manju. This is the thing when you, when you, when you implement the norm of step up step. Go ahead Muffin. Okay. I think it was definitely a good idea to focus on doing different things or different programs started for children and youth. I've been saying for a while now is that we know that they're not going to not build a detention center, but if we can have programs in place where you don't even have to go to that. I don't remember if it was at $60 million because kids have something else to do and have someone else to go and that's the issue in Durham is kids have nothing to do. You know, a lot of the boys and girls clubs, after school programs, you know, you have to pay and so it comes with financial strain on families and things like that. So you think it should be time to figure out what we can do as a tax force to be able to get those programs funding to start them up or the ones that have already been existed but we've set down because they didn't have the funding to make sure they have what they need to start them. Thanks Muffin. Jesse go ahead. I'll go ahead Samuel. I was motioning for Jesse for Jesse. Yeah. I'm curious. It seems as though there's at least general support, or at least neutral support because if you're, you're not saying that no one's opposed words. So, I'm curious among us, you know, we are bringing on additional task force members are there folks that are interested in leaving their current round table to focus in on this work. Would it be a dish in addition to the current round table that you're on. Xavier. Yeah, I'm just thinking about that in a sort of practical sense. I have another question too, but I'll just ask that if there's an immediate response. Yeah, on that question, I was thinking more of if there were if round tables were in a position to wrap up their work within a month or two, and then turn their attention to broader youth. I wasn't thinking of anybody trying to do two round tables or leaving one to go to another. I was thinking that if there were a youth round table that's coming up, it's coming out of what's currently the, what we call divide in the SRO, working together to figure out what type of youth round table that could be. That's just one idea, but I was definitely not thinking about because our capacity is limited. So I definitely wasn't thinking about asking anyone to switch round tables or add more work. That's just where I was coming from. I guess in response to that are there others who feel like they are at a concluding point within the next month or two with their round table. It seems like no, it seems like. I wonder if this is a place where we could add some capacity by filling those two vacancies that happened when we lost our colleagues Tanya and Cynthia from these teams. Could we, could we bring folks and who could help out with a new round table. I did want to, first of all, thank Board Member Lewis for being here. This is July the hiatus of most of our electives and she's taking time out to be with us. And I do, I did see in their last monthly meeting in the end of June that she did bring it up to discuss replacing it. I'm not sure where that stands, or she'd like to speak to that. I do appreciate your presence. Yeah, they bring it up in the meeting. We have the application process open since April, maybe even before then just haven't gotten a lot of interest. We have three applications and I just ask them to go ahead and pull that to the Board should be voting on to bring on and put that position. In our next meeting. Whether they will have capacity. What that will look like I think that would just be the person drawn and have a conversation with them with that will look like they are coming from a perspective of being a educator or a DPS. So they were really coming to give a perspective about SROs and what that looks like in a school system. So I'm not sure if the ship into the focus in which to have a round table with youth. It may or may not be, I guess maybe it would depend on who was selected and three applicants and that's online to act in a chat if you'd like me to review on to who the applicants are. And the other thing that I'm mindful of as it relates to youth, I'm lifting up the youth and this youth listening report youth listening project. As a recent sort of body of work that again feels like a baton pass. And just wanting to consider like how that might be leveraged. And then adding in terms of capacity I guess goes with Monju's point. If there are people that folks have in mind, who might be able to join around people. I remember so like, they wouldn't necessarily have to get into the sort of bureaucratic nitty gritty of applying and being appointed because that takes time. It's a little less formal but still meaningful if the right person can join that round table's work, as opposed to formally joining the task force. Though I get why that would be useful since there are open positions. I just feel really sensitive about the time that we have, and I'm glad that we'll be able to talk more about that later. So, I'm kind of wondering if, if I'm curious what the room thinks but I'm wondering if, if that was actually a good segue into saying it sounds like there's consolidation around this round table. It sounds like there's a need for capacity whether it be through kind of folks joining the round table or joining the task force, but a lot of that depends on kind of our overall timeline I'm wondering if, if no one else has kind of thoughts around additional round tables, or how to think more generally, more broadly about this particular one I wonder if this is a good segue into kind of our timeline here here from here, going forward. It would be really helpful to look at that. Maybe we should table this discussion. Well, moving to the time table discussion and then pick it back up with a little more context, if that's helpful. Yeah, that sounds right. Yeah, I don't want to close it. I don't want to close it just yet. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, yeah, I'll share my screen here at this point. And Mike and I were tasked with looking at just outlining recommendation timelines. There were two things we're trying to get discussion on one is what types of recommendations might do you see this task force bringing forth when the work is said and done. And then I just want to just put in real terms, what it looks like and how much time we really have left. So as far as types of recommendations. In small discussions, I've had with some of you, I've heard policy recommendations program or resources to existing programs. And then I add another word tonight that I heard from Jesse the baton past where we can recommend as many other task force have done the past. It's something that we see would be great for this community. That's beyond the scope of this task force that we want to see someone else pick up. What would be an example of a policy recommendation. What might be an example, trying to just trying to make this clear. Well, like, for example, the community, the CLS roundtable will probably have some policy recommendations say, for instance, Andy court that that Marsha mentioned policy for the the court or child welfare wherever to implement in terms of the time for reunification notification. And it's not a, it doesn't require more resources, but it's potential policy change. And that, that relates to the policy, different kinds of policy recommendations we might put forward as a, as a task force around tables rather. There are some that are directed to this probably pretty clearly directed the city and some that are more clearly directed to the county commission, especially if those require resource expenditures as we've already done some. There are some that would be clearly directed towards the school board. Those are probably mostly, you know, new programs and resources like an officer survivor care for instance or whatever it might be. But there could be policy changes that we might direct towards agencies kind of internally that don't even involve the city or the county or the school board like for instance I think the, what I learned from talking with Xavier was that the crisis around table y'all have already been in good discussion with Ryan in the community safety department about things to do that they to implement as they're building their department. And those are kind of policy recommendations that they can just take and implement they don't, they don't have to become a task force recommendation that gets, you know, approved by the city and all the way down the line. And we all might have versions of that so those would be things I think we could still forge ahead of forge ahead with and we'd be in our final reports, you know, come April of next year about this is everything we've accomplished, but they wouldn't necessarily be recommendations that it's city or the county or the school board would have to have formally approved. And I know for our roundtable there will also be policy recommendations as well as some programmatic recommendations that require resources that may be directed to a body other than those three like the administrative office of the courts for instance, where, you know, that that is a recommendation will put forward we may or may want may or may not want the city and the county to say yes we concur. We also endorse this recommendation, but it's really not up to any of those bodies to implement it's up to some other body to implement. I suppose another policy recommendation could be one affecting state legislative change like for instance, Marsha mentioned the bail bond issue, where we would wreck you know suggest the state legislature ought to change the laws on bail and bonds related to cash bond for instance. Or if we suggest we should the Durham should create a DUI court, there's going to be some potential state legislative chains of be involved so that would be a policy recommendation that we put forward that isn't up the city and the county and the school board could like endorse it, but it really doesn't involve them. It's something we would, you know, suggest or baton passed for someone else to take up. And there's also right there's the question of recommendations that are programs and resources attached and the question is we learned from the reception but the prescription to repair proposal. Do we need to expect that we have any, any recommendation that's going to cost any money. Do we have to present it to both the city and the county to, you know, kick in their share. As was the nature of the commentary at that last meeting that, you know, will be, rather than us saying this is a good idea we think is going to spend costs of money you need to do whether it's you know, related to SROs or crisis response or criminal legal system or violence or whatever. And then it's up to you, the elected officials to figure out how to share the cost burden where to find the money. It's not up to us to tell it's up to us to tell you how much the total cost is you guys figure out, you know where to get the money and who to ask for it amongst the three bodies or grants or whoever else. But that's something we as a task force I think we probably need some guidance on about how to proceed so we don't have another instance where we put forward proposal and good faith, asking one body for the money because that's where it makes most sense and then telling us, well why should we have to spend, why should we have to pay for it all. Why don't you also ask in the county to kick in. Thank you. Any other types of recommendations that that you may be thinking of that I haven't listed here. I hope this is somewhat clear. What about like March I'd mentioned before what about if we as a task force later go back say take another look at the racial equity task force recommendation. What about the governor's ones and say specifically the ones that involve local we we the task force support the following recommendations of this previous task force. And we think those should be implemented that sort of a ton pass, because it's up to the relevant local bodies who has yet to act on those recommendations to do so. Anything might perhaps occur with the that gang violence reports slash strategy document there are things in there that could be worth us saying, yes, we think the local entities should act upon those. They don't, they wouldn't get any more specific than the bullet point items in those task forces but we could just add our at our endorsement. Probably would be something we would do, you know at the tail end of our work as part of our final report. Absolutely. So I do. We do want to make really clear that that recommendations coming from your round table at this point can be in different formats. It may be a simple sentence of support that you bring to the full task force thing we would like, but it's a full task force to support the work of this body. It can be just that simple, and it will be on a list at the end of our report and others will be much more fleshed out with budgets and, and who we spoke with and all the other things we've created in our document so every, every recommendation does not be as robust as what we've brought forth so far. Some of them can be as simple as we support this work. We would love to see this work continue. So with all that said, and we brought that up to say, okay, as you're thinking about your own round table work moving forward. And looking at the actual timeline, I'm not sure where this blank space came from but working as you were looking forward to your timeline. What do you think about what you have. Is there any clear first and second reading timeline for any of the words you're doing now that you would like to talk about. Or if you want to mention the specific recommendation at this point. Could you think about the time that you think you may wrap up some of the work you're doing. And that might help us figure out how we want to handle the youth round table. My gut reaction. I don't, I don't think. Yeah, have it. This is I'm speaking I'm thinking talking a bit because I haven't chatted with Alex Norrie or Tyler about this but I don't imagine us. Having a first reading ready until September at the very earliest. I don't think it's going to be October, but September if we really get some good momentum and feel like we have clarity about a particular thing that we want to put forth. That's my gut reaction so like September for a first reading October for a second reading but I agree with that. Nothing to put that down just. Again, this is a worksheet. This is a worksheet. That wasn't like a formal motion or anything that. Right. Look, I'm going to make it really big pressure. It's a worksheet. Just to help us all think through this. Okay, if I put that down. You need the watermark that says draft. Well it's a live document you can always change it. I think we talked about doing my graphic. I'm like, you know what, no, let's just create it as we go. We got a little time here. And I would say Xavier for and Martian muffin and toy I can correct me but that's this is pretty much our timeline we're we're we want we're hoping shooting an R round table to wrap up our our work by December, but I'm thinking similar to Jesse we we should be able to take a look at what's being proposal related to something probably either. Yeah, I don't just say just say CLS RT because I can think of three potential topics that might cover by September. And then we probably have another one in October and another one in November. In other words, we could probably have, you know, one a month. And what were you, Xavier you went when you were now are talking we were thinking. Given the amount of time that it, you know, reading should take, we probably wouldn't want to try to consider more than like three proposals, unless they're really short, you know, resolutions, not more than like three per meeting right given the amount of time they need to be considered That's my gut reaction about that. And you wanted when how much time do you want for us to ground tables to get the task force members and all the elected officials, because that was something else you were saying, I think I was clear, you want to be able to share the even the first draft of a proposal with all elected officials and liaisons, but all of them city council, county commission school members correct in advance of the first reading. That's my experience in this work of this first year told me it's going to be our best. The longer you give it that more. Okay, I just want to give them a chance to look through and from its draft iteration through its final version. The draft iteration. Yes, sir. Got it. So that we that means at least a week before a task force meeting right. That's right. Okay. What about from our other two rounds tables in the idea where you might find yourself in this calendar. I did. I did not mention all this shaded stuff at the bottom. I feel strongly that we should spend the last part of our prescriptive time out in the public talking about this work. And so when I put a final report with a question mark, I don't mean publishing a final report, but having it ready to talk about. Or it may be in publishing, but I just feel like if we do all the wreck go all the way through April with recommendations. We have no steam momentum. Yes, Jesse, would it make sense potentially to have the final report after the public campaign. I was just thinking in terms of like some of that feedback like I would love to be able to have an hour report that like we did an initial like we did some initial campaign engagement after we completed our analysis and like people were able to say, Oh, yeah, you heard me well. This is what I was hoping for or who I didn't expect you would do that or this isn't what we wanted off like, you know, like that being, because I just I don't know, I wouldn't want to have a report, and then I'm going to not be captured. If we're the community safety wellness type like the part feels important. So that's what I would look like with that. Would that mean that the public campaign needs to start in January or is too much sufficient for public campaign. I could see, well, I'll be quiet, I'll let others share. I really like that idea I think that's really important that we have that draft right take it to the people here what folks feedback on that and then have a final report at the end of our tenure totally makes sense. And I think that we should because we're going along we are. We, we know what we're supporting right as we do these these recommendations so that that looks like a good timeline for me and then to get out into the community and do exactly what Jesse said I think it's really, really good. We could do some of that public support behind recommendations that we've come up with the task forces approved and they've been put before the various bodies to receive whatever hearing or not they do. And we could be gathering press attention and public support behind those specific proposals that are coming up as we go along. Not just the whole package, but specific ones. Yes, that that absolutely they don't seem to have to be mutually exclusive as the point. Absolutely this is definitely not reflected in this chart but anytime that you have a different recommendation that public input and reflection is important. You don't, there's no reason to wait to February, the things you're thinking about in September between that first second reading could be talked about and publicize. Absolutely that that can that absolutely can be ongoing that that's not reflected the I'm glad you brought that up. So yeah, and I like the idea of having a somewhat of a draft in January that we can talk about and then based on our interactions. Kind of tighten it up for April. That's what that looks like. Yeah, I think for our roundtable. We're planning for the first reading of our recommendation to be during the August meeting for the task force. Second reading the following month. More than likely or perhaps if we could schedule a time sometime during August perhaps during then as well. Just depending on, you know, time constraints, people's commitments, whether we'll be able to meet for him or not so. I was reflecting in our weekly crisis response roundtable, how collaborative things have been as far as being able to see some of the things we dreamed about actually taking place now through the department. And being able to continually, you know, give them feedback on what's happening. So a lot a lot of what we had dreamed about happening is we're watching it take place these pilots. Are there some additional ideas, concepts from the crisis response roundtable that you're thinking may come forth later. And if so, what month makes sense. Again, this is just a draft. This is just a worksheet. This is just speculating. No pressure. Speaking for myself, I find that kind of a hard question to answer because we're right in the middle of conversations about what comes next. I welcome other folks from my roundtable to speak up but speaking for myself I feel like we're in a modest holding pattern. Now that some of the pilots have launched. And that's like, we're not expecting anything to go wrong but we live in the same world as yesterday so something will happen right and we anticipate that that really I anticipate that might, you know, capture our attention. So we have talked about like engagement and working with the department on like community awareness and continuing some of our previous successful efforts and doing listening sessions and using things in that kind of tool belt to systematically and sufficiently create venues for community feedback. I don't know that we've settled, but I don't know. Monju. I think you're the other roundtable member on the call, at least that I see if you have anything else to add. Issa gets here too. Hi, so nothing to add I hear where you're coming from Jim. That's right. I couldn't do the chat when I was sharing I just see where we possibly can do some other versus second reading later on but and if we have if roundtables like price response have recommendations is more sort of internal ones that are going straight from your roundtable to a collaborative community partner. I certainly don't certainly don't feel any need for the whole task force to approve of those I would just want to make sure they're included in that final report again to give full recognition of the of the work that we've all done but I get you know everybody should have a chance to weigh in on that if these are recommendations you know coming from a part of the task force to some other entity. You know if you all feel well I want we want to know about those sooner rather than later I personally don't feel the need to do that I trust. I'm sure the colleagues who are focused on those issues to do that. I'll learn about it later in the final report, or just, you know in announcements or whatever is we have meetings yeah we've had this great idea, we send it along to the da and they're going to do it. Great, or the Community Safety Department and they've agreed to do it great doesn't need formal approval. But if other people think differently we should know that. Let's take back the concept of a youth of additional youth work. Seeing what we have here is a draft timeline where where might that a recommendation from that youth group youth round table come in this timeline. You know, I'll ask Alec and Sam to weigh in on that. Does it seem like it still makes sense to do so. I have unmuted my my thing but I don't necessarily I'm sitting with it it's it's it's it seems like it's a it's a tight timeline. In all honesty, right, which we kind of we knew was a strong possibility. Yeah, I definitely think it would be a squeeze. And even if we don't even end up creating a full round table perhaps would just be a matter of like Mike was recommending earlier just consolidating a lot of our youth related work into one space and just working collaboratively on that. To hopefully establish some cross round table collaboration there on that front. I'm basically echoing Samuel's idea, wondering about kind of some more compact ways of doing this. Rather than doing a full round table process like the ones that we've done so far, really making the most of the work that came out of the Durham Office of Youth and convening some cross round table work around these questions and wonder about the possibility of hosting another like city wide county wide town hall around key questions that folks are seeing around this work. What are we hearing on the ground people are hoping to see around you've been letting that be the theme that brings folks together in the town hall. This is really great discussion and options and glad to hear that there's a special focus for the youth. And what does that look like for their safety while this has a community not just related to the school. I know that this this task force has engaged other community organizations to hear kind of what they've been doing, or to hear the communities that they've been involved with, and I'm wondering if you all be open to And I guess it was mostly with the work coming together protecting our dignity that Adele or Tess has been doing these listening sessions. And I've seen some of these recommendations and they're very much centered on youth protecting our dignity with youth and maybe something from those conversations that they could share with the group that they've had. I think they've been doing the same sessions for several months and so I don't know if we've already engaged them or if that's an opportunity that they've been working with the office on youth as well they engage youth to even name the paper, and they're coming to that conclusion at the city in June but we're already in July so that might be already concluded. So again, maybe listening to them and hearing from them and then you all can decide if you'll invite them into the space and then you all can decide how to add to that work or will you go with it. Thank you, I see your comments. I just wanted to jump in super quickly and say one. I agree that pod would be a great resource. Being a part of that work there. Yeah, there's a lot of information there. I was just going to pose a question I'd like this idea of consolidating information that has already like that's already existing and I'm very much like we don't have to reinvent the will if you don't need to. But is there anything that like we might be missing right like I know like there's a lot of different roundtables on here. And both the youth listening project has a lot of recommendations and so does pod. But is there anything that we might need to consider like I know like the youth listening project doesn't. Yeah, yeah, so just just wondering about that and does that still push for the need of having this youth roundtable. And what I'm wrestling with is with these great ideas that we're hearing somebody got a bottom line to work. Somebody got to say yes, I'm taking this. I'm taking these threads. I'm going to make some fabric. This and this person is needed. But what we're missing if we don't have a new ground table, we are still missing a task force member who with bottom line that broader work in whatever format it takes, whether that's interacting with or projecting that dignity, whether it's asking and really working collaboratively with the other round roundtables about are there some youth facing things that you're not able to deal with that we can look at. So got some hands up. Nori. Okay, he's putting his hands out. Yeah, I think this is getting at the heart of what my initial concerns were because I'm just, I try to be practical and concrete with these things. I'm like, who's going to do the work. Who's going to leave their roundtable and make space for a new roundtable and practically speaking like I don't see any of us able to being able to do it today or next month or by the fall, which would mean a very short timeline. I think while there's general support for focusing on youth, it doesn't seem strategic or realistic even to focus that or to make that focus within the context of a new roundtable. It doesn't feel practical within the confines of of the this body and how it is structured. I think there are other bodies and offices that are doing really great work. I've gotten to observe and hear about pod. I'm not connected with it just because I can't do everything that none of us can. But I know, I know some of us are either directly or indirectly connected with people and orgs that are championing pod, along with other youth focused efforts that I think relate to safety and wellness and so perhaps this is an opportunity. It seems to be some amount of youth relevance within our current roundtables to be inviting community members to join us and intentionally thinking about organizations that we could be amplifying or baton passing to when our work wraps up so that that youth work doesn't fall through the cracks, at least as it relates to what aligns what we feel aligns with the work that we're currently doing. It's important enough for us to take time and a public meeting to mention it. So I'm certainly not here to to disregarded at all, just because we may have limited capacity, or the structures that we're in sort of make it harder for us to to spread ourselves more widely but I'm okay with honoring our limits right like that's a part of what makes us effective is like recognizing what we can't do and trusting that like what we're doing is enough for the current season. So I'm not interested in seeing anyone bending over backwards than trying to do all things for our people. Yeah, I think it feels more I'm more supportive in this moment of some intentionality around additional people additional community members on our roundtables. And if that isn't already happening, or if that is already happening intentional outreach and collaboration with other units that are in those lanes and figuring out how we can support or amplify what they may already be doing that aligns with our focus on safety and wellness. That's my two cents on the least the first agenda item that we had I know we left it open and moved on to other things but we circle back so that's kind of where I'm landing in this moment. Thank you. Before I get to my muffin did put in a chat is there a way for each roundtable to add a piece to include you and each roundtable has to answer that on their own of course but there's nothing stopping. If you have persons that you can bring into your roundtable that are not part of task force that those doors are still open. And still recruit persons that are dealing that are working in some of these other spaces into your roundtable space as well. That's just another option from a capacity standpoint to help you to actually bottom line some of the work that you're doing. Just to say the SRO is already exploring bringing more people. And so that's one way to add capacity within the restrictions that we have this might. I was thinking maybe there's a good compromise we could endeavor in the form of inviting these relevant youth focused organizations and groups that are doing the work to come to the task force and talk with us about the information they gathered in the work they're trying to do and we could have this conversation and pose this question to them like do you think an additional set of town halls on this topic at the end of the year would be useful or you think look we already know we have we have enough voices we know what to do we just got to do it. And then have them you know Jesse's point inform us on whether they think those those dots are you know getting connected I think it was Wanda right you shared that map with us months and months ago about all the various organizations and all the lines like you know if there's yeah we get it we're already trying to to collaborate and knock down the stove pipes and if that's happening, then we can leave that work. As Jesse says and those capable hands and probably you know perhaps have some baton passing recommendations of the Ed, or if they come and meet with us in, you know, August or September at a task force meeting and say, we need help we need to focus on this, then we could say alright, well that's something that we as a task force want to try to take on in our remaining months is, is getting those conversations going. But they may all well already be and they, they may want to the task force to be a kind of supportive back back bench partner in minutes but we can focus as Jesse says on our other work and our remaining time. But why not hear from those folks doing the work at a, you know, task force meeting in the next couple of months, and then know how to proceed. And you just, you just listed off so many people we could invite, I would probably think we should probably add Angela none to that list, and whoever is on running the, what is the juvenile crime prevention council I think is what it's called in Durham. There's a state version of it and a local version of it. Thank you. And I would like to say that I think that one of the best things that we could do in reference to other organizations that are working with you. To say yes as try does is to acknowledge who they are and what they do in the community so in terms of a town hall. I think it should be flipped on its head. Rather than not saying that it wasn't already flipped on it, but, but to have individuals that have been working with you that have outcomes that are experts in this area to be the ones that are presenting at the town hall. Because if we as the task force in my opinion. You know come out we want to help you, but we're not acknowledging the work, or, you know, so I think that that should be the highlight so that the community and whoever else can see the work that's being done can hear the outcomes, maybe even hear from some of the youth that have been through the program. I think that that would be more effective in my opinion, even in the space that we occupy, rather than sitting and listening yet again to to what so called experts are saying about the youth in Durham. I'm not concerned how you feel about this question so far, where we are a lot of options on the table. A whole lot. I definitely agree with Dr. Boone's recent idea. We're also lifting up those voices and lifting up those organizations and groups that are providing that support. And in reference to, you know, ideas of the round table being created or ideas of just consolidate any work ideas of trying to bring these other people aboard to provide their expertise in certain areas in terms of like ideal or tease. I think it is important for me to recognize that, you know, whatever work is going forward, I would more than happily help and you know, whether it's co-captaining or whatever the term is for it. I would love to help in that work. I would love to help, you know, coordinate those things because I think a lot of those things are heavily related to what we're doing in the Vidron table. I'm using the acronym, but yeah, so. Can you remind us what Vidron stands for, sorry, violence interrupters. I always forget the I I forget if it's intervention or interruption, but it's violence interruption slash intervention and de-escalation. Now, did you have any. Okay. No, thanks. Yeah, so it sounds like we have many options that we've all brought up. We can bring youth facing into each into our task force to present as we've been doing in the past. We could actually do a town hall, a youth facing town hall with these groups presenting. We could expand the work in our round table by inviting persons who are again experts and deeply involved in this work into the into our work. We don't let that settle. I mean, we put it out there. This is the workshop situation. You don't have to have this on this. So right now. Okay. But Marsha and I meet with Dwayne Campbell every Tuesday morning, we'll take a look at what we've gotten here and really try to help bring more structure to it. But we I just felt we needed to have this. We felt like we need to have this conversation Marsha anything before we move on to the next agenda item. Well, the only reflection that I have that in the very beginning when we all, we all gathered. We didn't, we knew that gun violence was a central thing, you know, central problem and Durham, we knew that it's now the number one cause of death for children in our community. And we didn't want to have a round table because we recognize that it was touching all kind of like youth, all the round tables. So I just would like to say however we want to develop this kind of cross round table in effort to address our youth. We could I invite people to do that with also the issue and the problem and the solution of stopping gun violence. Thank you. And before we move on and talk about include including more community voices into these meetings before we go to that concept with Marsha and do want to get a consensus. If, if, if you as a task force remember believe that it would be helpful, it may be helpful to bring more presentations where we're trying to cut back on presentation coming into this space. That's kind of why the next, the denied him was thought about, but if I'm now something like I'm hearing where we may want to more presentations, if they use both. So if you are amenable to is not about this consensus like give me some sense of where we're going here. If you are amenable to having presentations in this space on second Wednesday from some youth facing organizations, please raise your hand. If there's something that you have an appetite for. Let's see 123. I just wanted to lift up mind you's comment in the chat. Yeah. And I don't want to put words and Sam, or Alex mouth, because I wasn't. I mean, I heard Sam Samuel say that he was willing to co-chair an effort, be it an actual new round table or something else. I think that that's what I was asking earlier and I didn't hear anyone say. I'll join the round table. I will leave my round table and join this new round table. No one said that, which is why I'm like, okay, make it make sense. So I just, I don't hear that unanimous support based on that if it's like, it's, it's the if. So, I think just being clear and candid, like, I'm trying to understand. Is this in addition to is this in place of, I just make it make sense. I know where I'm at. I'm in the SRO lane and that feels best for, for me. But if we have, and I would think at least one, ideally two people that are willing to champion it and make it work within the time we have left, then I'll be supportive. So I just need to make it make sense. And so what happened in the chat. There's a lot going on in chat. Sam is saying yes indeed he would do so in addition to work with the balance interruption de-escalation task force. Jennifer said she'd be having to support our end. So is Dr. Brun, I believe. So that may be a place to start for the, for the three of you to kind of get together and think about what it may look like. Sorry. Yeah. So, yeah, so if the three of you would Jennifer Wanda and Sam to kind of get together and just say what could this look like. What does this mean? What's realistic. And I did see a maybe half of us saying yeah let's bring somebody, let's bring some more presentations in. Not quite sure how it feels yet. Jennifer. Thank you. Sorry, I'm sorry if I was unclear I wanted to clarify I don't actually think I'm a good fit for this particular committee or board, but I would, I wanted to offer support. Should the people who elect to be on it actually be needed. But I am, I'm an adult. And that's probably my qualification that I offer but we have many other adults with much more experience and training with youth on the ground table than me. They're on the committee. But, but there, and there is nothing wrong with having someone to assist the technical support because many, many initiatives get launched with no technical support and fall flat on their faces so I think I hit Jennifer saying that she's available to help with any research outreach collaboration technical support tech things as well. Yes, thank you very much. And Nori is in. Nori's in as well. Alright, so, again, that's all. Speaking on behalf of SRO round table like I feel, essentially since we're thinking about adding at least one potentially two people to our round table. Like, I am open to folks leaving our round table to focus on a youth thing, but I'm not here to, to volunteer Nori or Alec. I'm just trying to make it make sense y'all so I'm going to step back we're going to close this out and let those persons kind of talk about what feels great to them. We do have 15 minutes left. A little 15 minutes left and I want to make sure that Marsha Muffin has some time to talk about there so thank you for this great discussion. Okay, but I think we've landed in a good place. I think we can let that group do an informal subcommittee work without being a subcommittee and help guide us through the end of the year as far as how we look at non school based youth or non SRO based issues. So thank you again, Marsha Muffin. As far as yours. Thanks, I'll pass it. Okay, so Marsha, you asked the question and I'm going to answer it. Beautiful. And the question is how one of the things about this task force that I think is so rich is our connection and our ability to listen and our desire to listen and to bring back voices that don't often get heard. And to bring that to us that's, that's the treasure. And so we were so mom and I were talking about just how to do that that instead of getting professionals to come and speak to us about different things that how can this task force be a link be a way for for regular voices, our neighbors to be heard on critical critical issues that we're dealing with. So, and, and we've had different ideas and so the question muffin is, how do we bring those authentic voices that are being deeply affected by by either the lack of policy or policies that may need change. Thank you, Marsha for asking that question. What I was discussing with you earlier is, we can have whole community voices but we say that we're in community, but we're not really in community, because we're not really on the streets, we're not like in the places. I think it's very rare that I meet strangers because no matter where I am, I wind up striking up conversations with people. And we be having these really good conversations and that's where I get a lot of my knowledge from is from having conversations in the grocery store at the courthouse. Not even a conversation, the rental car place, but there's all these places people who ask me about my shirts, and I have these conversations and I listen to what they say. And sometimes when I'm selling our stuff and I'm being really raw and aggressive with it. That's how they give it to me. They don't should have coded, they, they give it to me, exactly how they, I give it to y'all because that's what they want people to know. When I invite people to speak, I tell them, I'm not going to bother your tone. I'm going to let you say whatever it is you want to say because people really need to hear what you have to say from you as a formerly incarcerated man or formerly incarcerated woman. They need to hear it how you feel it. And so I think we can invite people in but when we invite them in, we have to listen. Like, with Miss Marion when she joined the round table, of course, and obviously ends of what we want to see about incarceration, right. But I respect her and I allowed her to tell me exactly how she felt about me saying I wanted, you know, people to be free to commit, you know, acts of harm against folks. And she said that, you know, she won't like that. Right. She's like, I don't feel that way. I want them locked up. And I respect her enough to listen to her and understand her and not try to push my agenda on her. And we can do that too. As a round table, we have to make sure that we're not pushing our personal agendas off on individuals because they don't agree with us. And being out in the community and being with different elected officials. The task force is kind of losing, like, we don't have any teeth right now. Like, even though we're a year old, we still haven't cut any, you know, we still haven't come in, right. I'm using the analogy with Celebaby and our teeth haven't come in. So people are not really taking us as serious as we should be, because all they see is we're being aggressive. Right. And that's what we said at the city council, right. Oh yeah, but you're actually so yeah, you're not going to, but that's not the case. We all have experience and knowledge that can help folks. But if we're not sharing that knowledge with people who have the same goal as us and we're not allowing them to speak, and we're the only ones speaking. They're going to always look at us that way. But we know that there's a whole community of folks that agree with there should be something else other than, you know, with where's the way that is he on the cost there. There's others who think that we should not have police. And then there are people who say that we need less police, right. But does that make them any more less valuable if they say that we need more police know that doesn't make them any less valuable to me, even though I disagree. We can get the man that we have to talk to the people and we have to go outside of our comfort zone. We have to go outside of our comfort zone and talk to people, even though it may feel uncomfortable for us. You would be surprised at how many people want to be engaged with us, but they haven't heard of us before. And no one's talked to them about the community. When I said, oh yeah, I'm on the community. When did they get this when it snowballed into a bigger conversation that they were unaware of. So, if y'all can do that you can know. Are you there muffin. Not everybody knows about this. Yeah. And I'm going to shut up now because I'm starting to ramble. Thank you. And so, as we do recommendations just I would love to have just a conversation about other people to think about people that we know that we should be hearing from, and I just would like to open that up to ideas here how may we seek out, listen deeply without judgment, and then share the wisdom of this community. Any, any thoughts on that. Mike. I think well two points one muffin you're in explaining the hopefully self evident rationale for this because it makes us better or to make better proposals as you were saying it lets the community. What we're talking about is what we were talking about earlier in trying to let our work be known and supported and build up public support for what we're doing before. Before we're done so it's mutually beneficial that a practical point Marsha you had mentioned, you know muffins great idea at just with the pragmatic alteration that if individuals were comfortable coming to a task force meeting on zoom. I think we would benefit from seeing people hearing from being able to listen to them first, second third but then ask questions to amplify what they're saying, but if they would rather have their input be given to us via a round table like the crisis intervention did with their great town hall we got lots of distilled information from community voices about what they saw a safe during being without directly coming to the round table so I think both. I hope we can have, I hope we can have people willing to come and, and talk to us about any, an issue that relates to proposal we're developing as we all consider it. But also other ways that that in that those community voices can find their way to us for people who just don't feel comfortable in this space, although hopefully we can make them comfortable when we invite them to assure them the kind of space they're coming into. Absolutely. Any other thoughts, any comments folks. Do you like this idea instead of having that we that are that are orientation now is the expertise of lived experience as opposed to positions of professional positions. Okay, good. How should we practically accomplish that Martha and Xavier we and as round table members or folk have somebody we think we really should hear from. Should we be letting you two know and or Dwayne know like yeah we let's get them on the schedule for x, a task force meeting so it can be part of the agenda so we make sure we make space. So we don't have you know five guests one, one month and none the next, right, you know kind of similar to the timeline you were making for proposal consideration. How should we accomplish. Yeah, Xavier for the August meeting for the September on November. Yeah, when I was when I was saying as far as inviting more people in. I was, I wasn't saying to like, invite people in to put them on display. Right, that's more to say, they can come in and listen to what we have going on with we invite them to a round table first. And then invite them to the big little, you know, later that we make, they can see what we're doing and if they want to, you know, put any input in, they can, as opposed to saying hey we want to put you on the agenda. And we're just, and we're just inviting folks saying. Okay, because then they just come if they want to come we don't need prior planning or anything like that. Okay. Thank you. That makes sense. So, um, so for me this is about relationships and just as muffin was talking about in her daily life, whether it's a grocery store whether she is wherever she is. And responding to questions and answering answering questions in an authentic compassionate humble. We're, we're, we are here in this lives in space together, kind of way to me is like set primary to inviting somebody to the task force. And I'll just leave that alone because I could go places with that so. Thank you. Yeah. Any other thoughts. Oh, Jesse, thanks. I'll do my best to be brief. Admittedly, this feels a bit unformed. So, please bear with me. I think what what I'm hearing muffin lift up feels most resonant when we are hearing community voices that are different. We hear people offer their lived experience personal expertise, and it is not only different than ours, but in conflict with our end goal or strategy. I don't think we necessarily sometimes I see people making folks enemies and sometimes I think people just are wanting to argue their point. Or get their point across and I think where it feels most strategic is like being okay at learning how to be okay with someone seeing something differently and figuring out how to, and I'll use this word very intentionally because I just mentioned it how to actually build relationship with people and move them along in a way that is based in again real relationship and that doesn't happen in one conversation. I think oftentimes when someone disagrees with us, we're just like okay well I don't need to engage them more I'm going to talk with folks that agree with me. And I think to my offense point like there are folks that are going to keep an extra room with us and tell us what they, and we have to, you know, I think it's our opportunity to really hear them out and be okay if they are saying something that isn't exactly what we want to hear expected to hear. So that's been the case within our roundtable work. And I'm hopeful that the recommendations we make invite people into real relationship and move people along so that we can actually do what we talked about doing but I think fall short and it's okay to fall short we're human we're imperfect. But it's about being honest enough to name the ways that we fall short and aren't perfect and can do better together, ideally. So, I think I really appreciate this moment to acknowledge that there are many voices in our community that care about social justice that care about equity. But we have different ideas of what that is, and we have to figure out how to move people along and doesn't make us less legitimate or less committed to justice work abolition whatever the words you want to use. It just means we're committed into it for the long haul. And again, as I said earlier, this work goes far beyond the two years or so for this task force and figuring out how to operate sustainably matters and a part of that sustainability I think again is being grounded in real relationship. And so if we really care about people and want to uplift their human experience, we have to be curious and curious enough to wonder, Well, why do they want more police and not just write them off. And if the end if people have that assumption that we're writing them off, we have to be honest about the ways that we might be confirming that bias, whether we intend to or not, and check ourselves. So I'm open to those conversations if people feel like I need to be corrected, like I said, we're not perfect. And there's always room to grow. And I hope fellow task force members will keep us saying kind of open transparent posture so that we can do this work well. So I'm open to those conversations within the bonds of the task force and beyond, as we continue advocating for wellness and safety and Durham. So that's me. And then I was a little long because I think talk. Can't be free, but that's what I'm hearing you say muffin. Yeah, it was beautiful. Yes. Say that again dear. I didn't. I didn't hear you. Oh, no, I was just saying, yes, that was beautiful. Yeah, I were at time and I think that was a beautiful summary of what we're doing if we can all be listeners like that. That's the city of that's what makes the city of peace. So thank you. Saviors you have any closing comments or since we are at time. I can I just leave with the word of gratitude. And I wanted did you want to say something. Okay, okay. Well, thank you all and I believe this meeting with lots of gratitude and respect for y'all. So thank you, thank you, thank you. And onward to gather. Good night. Everyone. Y'all be going.