 Nigerian Army generals are corrupt, they steal weapons and sell to terrorists," says a report by the London Bay's paper The Economist. And also President Muammar Dabouari considers a state pardon for Ken Sarouiwa and other Oguni leaders. This is Plus Politics and I am Usaou Ghi of Boa Ma. A London-based magazine named The Economist has blasted President Muammar Dabouari and the Nigerian Army over the poor state of the country. In its editorial titled The Crime Scene at the Heart of Africa, the paper rather stated that the Nigerian Army is filled with corrupt generals and is unable to protect a country from the mutating violence. It also alleged that many of its soldiers are ghosts who exist only on the payroll and much of its equipment is stolen and sold to insurgents. It also described the government of President Buhari as high-handed, adding that he has also failed to tackle corruption. The Nigerian Army has reacted to the article saying that it was crafted to denigrate, demonise and destabilise the Nigerian government. And joining us to discuss this is Dixie Nusaji, a security expert and Sonny Maduka, a political affairs analyst. Good evening to you both, Mr. Asagi. Good evening. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. Mr. Maduka, can you hear us clearly? Good evening. Good evening. Good evening. Good evening. Great to have you on the program. I think I would just start with Mr. Maduka, who is joining us via Zoom. For a lot of people, this came as, well, not very new. It seems to correlate with a lot of the analysts and some of the things that they have been saying also about a security situation in the country in the last couple of years. Do you have the same views? Do you agree with what the economist has put out concerning Nigeria's fighter gangs insurgency? Well, first of all, the ugly situation in this country is not only about military. It has transit to many facets. Of course, if you look at the article in question, it didn't only address only the military. It addressed the high hard dentists. It addressed the food crisis and food crisis. It addressed the corruption aspect of it. And, of course, it addressed the issue about what you can call the mismanagement of the economy. So, if you look at that five-pointer, although we are zeroing into military sales, you discover that Nigeria has always been a trouble to itself. Don't forget that Economist is an international recognized magazine. And, of course, they've lived and they've stayed over 170 years. And before they could postulate anything, before they could publish anything globally, they must have found and looked and checked at their past. And they can never be mistaken to what they've said. And these are these what they've just posted and what they've told us. It's not new here. If you go through the scenarios, in August 2016, there was a kind of alleged military sales of ammunitions. Of course, you know, 20 officers were arrested. Four of them were officers and they were charged. So it's not new. If you look at it September 2, that same 2016 post-news came out with another allegation. We are even, they are demitted. The present chief of defense staff was in charge of the operation in Lafayette, Newly, in the northeast, and he agreed that, yes, there's some elements are between the army. Who are the elements? They are the ministry. So there's no exclusion. So it's not that we are knowing it. And if you go through again, you discover that even premium times on the 5th of March came out with the report. And where they said that some army officers are supplying the bandits and the insurgents, military ways, uniform, booze. It was not a mean person that alleged that. It was the Zamfra governor that alleged that. And you know that has ways. Somebody that can, the ministry, the governor of Zamfra cannot come out openly to say army is selling most of the military ways to insurgents. If you, even on April, 2021, April of this year, premium music only came out. Where the ministries speak also just accuse of supplying army. And he agreed. There's nothing like, you know, saying that the economy is trying to debug or do whatever they think it is. No, it is the truth. Everything is at a glade. Sahara report on the 10th of September last month said it openly again. Where they said even the military hardware or military vehicles that were purchased specifically for pressure in the northeast from innocent motors. We are displayed by bandits as they own a school of war. So it's not a new thing. So we have been there. We have all been accused and we have been talking. The issue is that it's all about talking. It is about how do we come out of this. And if we are going to come out of this. Mr. Madako, I think we may be losing connection with you. So to keep the conversation going, we're going to go to Dixie Nusajina, who is a security expert. In response to this, the army said it is one of those deliberate false hoots and noxious narratives orchestrated by a network of detractors and a coven of dark forces working hard to adorn the Nigerian army in an unfitting garb of infaming. They basically looked at every word in the dictionary to assist them with that one. I also got to listen to the podcast by the economist earlier today and listen to what the analysts had to say. Do you think, you know, not just the security aspect now, do you think that this paints the very clearest picture of what Nigeria is today, or is this one-sided, like the army is claiming? Well, for me, thank you for having me. I want to appreciate all you guys do for our great nation, Nigeria. Coming by what the report, the report we got from the economist, you know, there's something about intelligence. What the economists have just given the Nigerian army is an intelligence. And when you receive an intelligence, you don't discard that intelligence immediately. You don't repute that intelligence immediately. You don't insult that intelligence immediately. You don't respond immediately. You need to go back to your drawing board, analyze the intelligence, find out how did these guys come about this information. Is there truly a moral within the military force? It amazes me how the Nigerian army of this present time come quickly on air to respond to allegations. When the leaky shooting took place in last year in 2020, the then military spokesman said it was a Photoshop. I listened to his interview. They didn't even have time to relax. They quickly responded to the allegation I'd like you to get. Now, this is coming from international papers. The economists have been in existence even before my great-grandfather was born. And I think they have an integrity to protect. They have an image to protect. And they can just come out and give that information that is not true. Definitely, they've done their findings. Now, I went through the report from the economist. They talked about soldiers' welfare, that soldiers are not well paid. They talk about diversion of soldiers' allowances, which are not getting to the soldiers. They talk about poor feeding. Now, let's keep aside the area of arms selling now. From those three points out, the economists gave out, I can vow for the economists that that report was true. I was a soldier, a former soldier. All what they've stated happened to me, myself, when I was in the Bacassi Peninsula in the 90s. Our funds were cut off. We're not well paid. We have been fed like cows. A pot of rice, one mangy, and some pieces of sorts. You know, the Army has lost its integrity over the time. And I have thoughts that all these years, the Army would have developed himself to international standards. These balls down to greed, selfishness, and unprofessional conduct. I believe those reports from the economists. And I have my own ears. I have people in the military. My young governments have been in the front line, they were shot in Chibok during the time of when they captured these Chibok guys. It was shot by Boko Haram in Chibok, 2014. Tango didn't die. He sustained a bastard, a deadly injury, I mean to say. It's like shattered. Are you with me? What did the Army do about? I'm giving you a personal example now. Let's leave the economists now. Because you know, whenever you come on air, what you can do for Nigerians to turn Nigerians to truth. Don't shed tears as it is. There's a problem within the military. They need to solve that problem. Release the soldier and retain the family. Soldier welfare must not be gambled, must not be jeopardized. This is what is happening in the front line. Where the economists have said is the truth and nothing but the truth. But in the area of arms selling or arms dealing, I will not agree with that because the military is a very disciplined organization that I believe. But there might be one or two bad elements in the Army that perhaps is supplying the insurgent arms and ammunition will seem some such as being paraded, giving most of this criminal escort services. So let us not write off the report of the economists. Most of what they're giving out, like I already said, is true. On the side of arms supplied to the insurgent by the military, they should investigate that before they come on air and refuse that information. Mr. Madhika, can you still hear us? Yeah. Yeah, I would do. I'm sure you listened clearly to Dixie and Osaji their interesting perspective. But I want you to now talk about the response from the Nigerian military. This, of course, would be a little heartbreaking for everyone up for those who had a lot of trust in the current administration when they were coming in in 2015 and expected a lot of change that would happen. So what would you say should be a better response from the Nigerian government and how much effect really will this economist report really do? I think the report has given us a clear way and probably saw how we can solve this problem. But the problem, like Osaji said, is that we don't sit down to analyze issues. We jump on issues. One of the things I know as somebody who got through some stress in analyzing issues is that you don't jump in. When somebody gives you a report, the first thing you do is sit down and analyze it. And of course, just like Osaji said, you don't win wars by propaganda or by coming to counter statements. No, you win wars by trying to analyze strategies, even the ones internal and the ones external. What economists did was to give an insight into the externality of what is happening in Nigeria and Mississippi. And just like I will say now that, you see, let me just say this because we need to be clear. Within the military right now, I'm wondering how many people are patrolling there again. Within the military now, I'm wondering how many people are not sentimental to either their tribe or religion. This is the problem. When we have such things, we are already defeated. As of today, like he said before, Niger military is recognized everywhere. They are reckoned. And I don't think that it's such a, it's something they cannot have done with. But I think there's a problem. Fundamental problems are within the root of the military. They should be able to assume those people who are not particularly patrolling because the issue of national identity and ideology is very important. If you tell an American soldier and an American soldier, he's proud of it. But today, can you tell a Nigerian soldier, US Nigerian soldier, how do he feel about the national pride? So this is the issue. It is not about contraing whatever the economy said. I think the Nigerian military should sit down, analyze that particular postulations and see how they can see to ameliorate. More so, the welfare of the army officers must be paramount. It is very, very important. The welfare, how much, if somebody died, they have insurance, a policy to cover them up. Okay, go to the military barracks. It's not something to write home about. So these are the issues. These are people that are putting their lives in the front burner. They should be able to be treated with dignity and respect. But I don't ask today, I don't think so. Where can you say that a military person, according to one of them that we are interrogated, why do you sell military words? What are the problems they say that? They buy their uniforms. They buy their boots. They think that somebody will not do anything. When they've gone through, they have budgeted such billions. It's not filtering to the people who need it. And this is the problem we have in this country. The issue is that we must sit down as a nation. Look at our national pride. Look at our national brand. And see how we can at least do something now that is still on a periphery. Otherwise, it's not about just saying it. The issue is that we have a working system right now. And we need to be changed right now. I want you to go on and share your views on the other aspect that we also brought up in the report. And also look at some of the things that the economists has pointed out. Like I said, I listened to a podcast earlier. They spoke about kidnappings. They spoke about corruption. They spoke about the need for even some of the Tucano jets that we are buying, which they said were really necessary. Those funds could have been used in other aspects that would have helped the fighter gangs in security. But share your views on the other aspects that they've analyzed. And do you think, because I spoke earlier also in the morning with the Kabira, who stated that there are other positives that should be pointed out with the way the Nigerian government has also acted. So do you think that we are somehow somewhere on the right track? And this will just maybe take some time. Or we are just completely lost? To be frank with you, I think your last word is better described. Yeah, because we are lost. I'm telling you the truth. If you look at the corruption index, everybody is outweighed out. This country is infected with corruption. And most of you have seen it glaringly, where somebody moved from one party to another party. His sins are forgiving. If you look at the corruption in the oil industry, where you're talking about how much is being expended on subsidy. When you look at the transparency level of economic indices in terms of what is spent and what is not spent, you can know. When you look at the budget system of this new team, you know, it's something not to be talked about. When you look at it, even the database is not there. When you look at the cost of things right now, the inflation rate, when I talk about 18%, man, it's too much. It's extraordinary. When you talk about the MPC rates, interest that you get when you want to get low. It's an 11 point. How much are you going to use? So when you look at all these things, you know that we're in trouble. Of course, our Naira is almost 500 plus. And there's no way in the economy that I've ever seen, where your currency could be devalued in such momentum. It's not done because your currency is your heart. The moment your heart starts bleeding, you're going to die. So when you look at the die-hard issue, where people are being segregated, where some people could be called bandit instead of calling them terrorists, where some people are called terrorists even when they are saying, no, we are not terrorists. So there's a lot of force within this nation. And until sincerity come on board, we are going to still go around and run and keep talking the same thing and never move forward. Now, let me go to the, wow, we're having this problem. We are having this problem because of nepotism. It's not, we don't practice merit here. That's how many people are put in a place based on who you know, your tribe, your religion. It's not done that way. Look at the economy of Singapore. Look at the economy of Malaysia. Look at the economy of the Africa and the Asian Tigers, Japan. It is either you are there or you're not there. And nobody's going to put you to a place that you know you cannot perform. Performance is what is at you. And that is why I talked about a budget system. We are supposed to be operating performance program budgeting system. Where your performance to every budget is tied to a project. But today, we keep on building the same road like this, by the way, every year, almost since I've been in Lagos, there's no year that you don't see the Belodega on it. You keep asking, how much is budgeted on this road? So this is the problem we're having. We must tell ourselves and come to rentable and see how we can champion and of course see how we can get economists that are called to what is development. As of today, nothing is safe. Oh, I hold on, Mr. Madukab. One of the things that we hope that we can achieve with every of these conversations is some level of hope. Analyze some of these discussions and then see if there's really any light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe in the near future, maybe in the next decade. Mr. Asagya, I'm going to come back to you now to speak about the handling and the way that the current administration. Listen, every time that we have critics like this, like you said, the very first thing that the government does is jump in and say that they're trying to defame, trying to pull the government down and some of all of that. Do you think that the current administration was, which word would you say fits best with the way that the country has been run in the last six to seven years? Is it uninterested, underprepared or overwhelmed with Nigeria's challenges? Well, Nigeria is missing in action. Nigeria is missing. And I would like our government to bring back Nigeria. Nigeria is missing in action. There is a phrase in the National Assembly, in the National Anthem that states that the label of our hero's past shall never be vain. And each time and now we have our leaders in the National Assembly, State Assembly, Government House, military facilities, singing the National Anthem every day. That line that says the label of our hero's past shall never be vain. To serve with heart and mind, one nation bound. It's an oath. And every day our leaders take these oaths and abuse the oaths. They're not even afraid to die of that oath taken. The National Pledge is an oath. If we don't rise up to defend Nigeria, I'm afraid Nigeria will be the first three most dangerous country in the world. As it stands, when you go into the global peace index, Nigeria is the 132 most peaceful country in the world. On the reversal, Nigeria is the first 15 most dangerous country in the world. And here we will talk about security. In totality, security is the freedom from danger. Now, no investor will want to come to a country where the security application is very porous. The porosity of our national borders have sold us out many times. I can remember many times, not war, not 10, not 20, not 100 times, Pears TV Africa has discussed the national borders of Nigeria. One thing I believe our leaders, they don't watch television. If they watch television and listen to radio, they would have been getting solutions from analysts, both political analysts, social analysts, security analysts, because the whole essence of this analysis is to criticize constructively and profile solutions. I'm not a constructive analyst, I'm a constructive analyst. I tell you what the problem is, I'm profile solution. But our country, we're not going to take this solution. This border on leadership brutality, our leaders have failed us with all honesty. They have failed us. And 2020 is coming. We've seen some politicians who vow with their life that they'd rather die than to cross capits. At the end of the day, they swallow that words and they cross capited. Our youth must remember that 2020 is coming. That is the right time. We need to pick or select the right leaders that will take Nigeria or that will bring back Nigeria because we need to bring back Nigeria before we take Nigeria onto the promised land. Nigeria is missing in action. In any given time, our names on the papers, on the International Committee, negative, negative, negative. Now, just what we call the red flag. Every country appreciates the red flag. What is the red flag? The red flag are a group of people or whatever the case may be, opponents that criticize government. Government must start looking at criticism as an avenue for them to develop this great nation. Whenever you see a report, don't condemn that report. That's where intelligence comes to play. What the Nigerian Army should be doing or what the military should be doing is to thank the economists for their reports. Not to criticize the economists. Tell them, thank you. We've seen this report. We are going back to the drawing board. We will institute or constitute a board of inquiry to find out or inquire about these allegations and find out what is really happening in the battlefield. For me, we will hold our leader responsible, hold our president responsible, hold our governor responsible and we must also stop centralizing our problem because the reason why I say we should stop centralizing our problem is that state governments must also be held accountable. Any incident that transpires or whatever the case may be, we must not push it to a butcher. We must start holding our state governments accountable because they are receiving the security votes. Every blessed time and then, they are receiving the security votes. What are they doing with these security votes? What are they doing about the jobless youths? Most of our youth are jobless here in Nigeria. Unemployment brutality. What is the government doing about unemployment brutality? Dispatch of kidnappings on the rise. At the rise of advance, kidnap market took a boom because advance was introduced as a billionaire kidnapper and that's why I've advised the Nigerian police to be very careful in parading of suspects. Each time you parade the suspect and you ask the suspect to tell the world how he or she carried out his crime, you are enlisting no criminals to the criminal market. So I appreciate the legacy of the government. They stopped the parading of suspects from the State House of Assembly. Then we should also be looking at social development and social contracts. Our government has bridged the social contract for so long. Bridging the social contract in the sense that they're supposed to give you an eye education. They're supposed to give you an eye good road. I drove down here all the way from the mainland. I know that these are passed through. Girl ups everywhere. They're supposed to give us electricity 24-7. Those are social contracts. Aton, you and I, we obey the government. We respect the government. We allow abiding. So the government has been bridging the social contract and they are expecting Nigeria's to be law abiding. It doesn't work that way. And that is why an average American would want to die for the State of America. An average U.K. citizen would want to die for the State of the United Kingdom. Simply because the government started taking care of them. Why did they stay young? And they kept taking care of them to the university and other fora. So what I advise the government is that they need to go back to the drawing board and analyze what the problem is in Nigeria and start listening to analysts. Soni Manukawa, do we still have you? I'm with you, I'm with you. All right, we can have quick statements to wrap up the conversation. If you can do it in a minute, we'll appreciate it. Okay, I just want to give a phrase. I said there was an old one by modern equipment, propaganda, armory, logistics. But by the patrotic zeal, all the people, all the soldiers, and that is the word of religious tribal sentiments. If we can do this and put into perspective the idea about citizenship, that even a leader should see himself as a citizen first, not as a boss, we can get it right. But as of today, we have something we call them and we. So there's a dichotomy, and that dichotomy may need to be closed down. If it can be closed down by bringing us such thing that Osage just said about social contract, it will be better. But unfortunately, I have to say this, I'm not trying to dampen anybody's spirit, but I need to say this, our constitution has messed up this. If a governor built a road for you, thank him. Because even in that constitution, it didn't tell you that a governor must build a road for you. A governor is not accountable to you. And that's why they can take the vote, the security vote, and spend it, and nobody asks questions. That's what he does that. This is a common way of every Nigeria, every money you spend, even as a governor, as a chairman or whatever you are, you are accountable to the citizen. And when we start accounting to the citizens, then Nigeria will stand to see the benefit of democracy, vis-a-vis the merits to every appointment in everywhere we are. Thank you. All right. And of course, looking forward to seeing a better response from the Nigerian government to the report by the economists, and not just response on paper, but a response in the way that they handle government and governance going forward. Soni, Madukawa, thank you so much for your time this evening. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Dixon Osage, thank you also for your time. And I'm always interested in speaking with you. Thank you, Bahá'u Báiní. And of course, thank you for staying with us. Coming up next in Boss Politics, President Buari announces that he could grant a pardon to Ken Sarawiva and others who were accused of murdering four Albany chiefs. We'll take a short break, and we'll be back.