 Welcome to today's ministry training. Mike is a little under the weather, so myself and Brother Joe, we're going to share some things that we've learned along the way that might be helpful in your journey in ministry and in healing and deliverance. So for those of you who don't know me, my name is Julie. Let's just open in prayer and we'll get started. Okay. Dear Father, thank you so much for bringing us all together today, Lord. We're here to meet with you. We're here to learn from you, Lord, and learn from each other. Lord, I pray, Father, that you would open our hearts and open our minds to receive from your spirit and guide us in all that we do today. In Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. I say that because about an hour and a half ago I got a call asking if I would be and maybe Joe would be willing to share a little bit today. So when I was out for a walk thinking I was just going to be a consumer today instead of a producer, but I'm not in that position. So I'm just going to talk for a little while and then Joe's going to come up and share a little bit. So I'm a counselor here that most of you already know that and I've been here a little over two years, about two and a half years almost. And before that I was a counselor in the schools and before that a teacher. So I've been working with people my whole adult life. One thing that I have come to learn is all people want to learn. In the school you have kids that are sometimes really difficult and you think maybe they don't want to learn but in reality they do even though they act like they don't. And then once I started working with people on a one-on-one level as a counselor in the schools I learned that all people want to get better. All people have hurts and in our business we call them soul wounds. Everybody gets soul wounds along the way, everybody. So one of the jobs that we have here is, one of the roles I'll say is we have to listen, we have to hear what the Spirit of God is saying to us and what that person needs. And so a lot of times we don't know until we approach the person say at the altar or in the hallway or in an office one-on-one to find out really what is it that they're here for and what do they need. A lot of times people come to us and they say, you know, I have a witchcraft curse on me, can you just break the curse? And although that may be true, there's more, there's other issues, there's root causes and we try to get to those. So the first question we always ask is what? Who hurt you? Right. Who hurt you? And so that's how a soul wound is created, it's through hurt. And everybody gets their feelings hurt at some point in their life, right? Usually before the age of three, there's some hurt that occurs. For women, hurt lingers. We experience hurt and we stay in that state of hurt longer than males typically. Women get hurt and then they get what? Angry. Right. They get mad. Huh? Or even. Or even. Thank you for that. Right. I think that's angry. So women, girls, we tend to get hurt, we get our heart broken and we might stay in that state for a long time, actually, it can linger a long time. I didn't understand any of this growing up, but I got my heart hurt. I grew up with three brothers, an alcoholic father, a controlling, scared mother, and a lot of wounds. I took in a lot of them and I stayed sad for a really long time and that fell right into depression and anxiety. So did I get mad? Yeah, frustrated, mad, but I was mostly hurt. I cried a lot. I remember when I first, my first major, major betrayal was having, I was married and he'd left for another woman and I cried for one year straight every day. I just cried and cried and cried. And I journaled to the Lord and wrote my prayers and God did a lot of work of healing, but I never got to the place where I wanted to get even or get revenge. It's hard. I don't know. I think my mom taught me through her actions, she never doesn't stay mad long. She'll get mad, she gets hurt, she gets mad and then she's over it. And she taught me that and I think that's something that I can say is true to this day. You can hurt my feelings and they can stay hurt for a little while, but I might get mad, but then I get over it really quickly. Not everybody's like that. So I said all that to say is when we're in this work of working with people, we have to realize that there's hurt, especially if someone comes at us harshly or, you know, so how are you doing? I'm fine. Okay, that's generally, there's a hurt there, under there somewhere, right? When we're working with people in this ministry, you can 100% of the people who walk in through the door have hurts. They have soul wounds and they came in because they want to get better. And I just want to say, before I turn things over to Joe and a little while, I want to say that when we approach people at the altar or we meet with them one on one, we want to come with them with love because it's the Holy Spirit, God's love through the Holy Spirit that heals the wounds of the soul. It's the only thing that can do it. Yes, I got to, I do a little class here for women on Tuesday nights and in January it's going to be every Tuesday in spite of what our website says, it says every other Tuesday right now, but it's going to be every Tuesday we meet, I do a little teaching and then we get into a circle and we share. I have some questions and a lot of times we pray and there's tears, there's deliverance, there's healing. I'm grateful for my sister Renju, she's here today and she helps me. And last week we got to, what we do is we're really taking these women into our arms and we're walking them to the throne of Father and helping them open their heart to receive His love. And the way that we do that is we listen, we're patient, we hug them, we serve them, that's how we do it. So soul wounds are, you know sometimes there's a gaping wound and you know someone has a big giant soul wound when they get offended very easily, right? They're hard to get close to. You could describe their personality like a cactus, they're very, you can't get close to them because they're keeping you at arm's length. Underneath there is this multiple wounds on their soul and one little touch is very painful. So we have to be mindful of that when we're working with people and they have an abrasive personality or they're very sure or they come across really harsh. It takes patience because we don't, who likes that? You come across somebody and they're quick to get offended or they're really sure in how they speak to you, that doesn't feel good and a lot of times we want to respond with a hurtful way, you know a short quick answer also, well we can't do that because we know that they're hurting and so we have to be patient and you know the Bible says be slow to speak and slow to become angry and quick to listen and in this ministry we have to do that and I'm so grateful that I have lots of good role models around me that do that all the time, lots of tenderness. So I don't know soul wounds, like I said an hour and a half, two hours ago I was asked to talk about soul wounds so that's what I have, yes good a question, thanks Pete. So like we talked the other day, we were talking about Thursday night that when Rip was doing the thing which we never heard him do, it was really cool. So basically that's the same thing, I can't remember exactly what he said if it was wounds on the heart or soul wound, but he was inviting the Holy Spirit to come in and heal and when he was doing that, I sat down because I felt the Holy Ghost, he was just rushing him and healing, everything he was saying I had, that was for him, he had told me, hey thanks man that was all for me, it was powerful, so what you're saying is we can't cast that thing out, I'm just wanting to make sure we have to invite the Holy Ghost to do a healing work in us. So the way I understand it, I would agree with you yes, the way that I understand it and I'm no way an expert on this, but wounds have to be healed and evil spirits are casted out, but it appears that sometimes we have trouble, I have trouble getting a spirit out of a person before that wound is healed and so that's why we ask the person, hey who hurt you, who wounded you, okay let's forgive them, let's release them and as they, and it's really important I've noticed that people need to allow their emotions to allow themselves to feel that emotion that comes with remembering that wound or feeling that hurt or remembering that time in their life and then they start to say in faith, by faith it is, I forgive this person, we all forgive in our mind, so we forgive and you're helping that person forgive and then once, I don't know when it happens, but we just know it happens when that emotion is raised up and we can see the Holy Spirit and then we can cast the spirit out, they come out so much easier when that person is getting that healing. I don't know, it seems like spirits protect the soul wounds, they, if there's a wound it's like they sit right on top of it, that's what it seems like, yeah they seem like to do that, I mean I never see this stuff so I don't know, I don't have any proof, but it appears that they, I call them sometimes a keeper of the curse, they are there because they had a right to be there and they're, and once you get the wound healed or you start to get healing into the wound they don't have anything to hold on to. Yeah. I would say exactly what you said is correct from what I've experienced, okay, it's like a demon sitting on top of that woman. Yeah, yes. And then you can't get that demon off there, but once you come out, I don't know why I was crying when I prayed, and I know they're getting that healed out, they're moving to their heart getting healed and the spirits come right out. Yes. So when you see the tears come down, they're getting healed. Yes. I use these words when they keep, that these things roll out, you've got a caption in the bottle you've got. Amen. Yeah, thanks Pete. Yeah, I say that too, that Father has this bottle, it's the only thing I can see that He collects, and that's our tears. So let them have your tears. When they come, let them come, don't be embarrassed, especially the men in the room listening. Don't feel shame. That shame, that's the enemy, right, bringing shame when the tears come. Just let them come, Father's right there, catching them. Yes, German. Yeah, like what God says that He came to heal the broken hearted. That's what it is, it's the soles of the broken heart. So when we read the Bible, we talk about healing, and then also about deliverance for evil spirits. But right in with that is that He came to heal the broken hearted, because that's the devil in order to attack. I tell people that what we live is a chess game between good and evil. This ministry gives you the answers to fight. Where in the world, you basically run around like a chicken without a head trying to find a solution to a problem, or to give you pills or just counseling itself, which may help you a little bit, but let's give you deliverance for you. And that's why forgiveness is so important. Because when you talk about the spirit in control of the person that's sobered, that forgiveness comes in and the broken heart is releases. That's when the healing comes. And that's when the spirit of strong becomes weak. And then it comes up. That's good. Thanks, German. Yeah. I gather... Yes. Joe probably drew this. Yeah, this is up here every month. I've heard that the soul is the emotional side of us. Yeah. It's where our emotions are housed. We'll probably get into this a little later. He didn't hear you ask to say that, but yeah. It was purely a transition. So yeah, this is the five parts of a human. Mike goes over that a lot. And yeah, the spirit man is where the Holy Spirit is living. And that's our spirit gets born again and the Holy Spirit's there. And no evil spirits can get into our spirit. And that's why people get confused. They're like, well, if you're a Christian, how can you have spirits? Well, they can get into your body. They can get into your soul and they can get into your mind and influence your conscience, which is in the mind. So this is a revelation that Mike got many years ago and he shares with us every month. But it helps to understand, wow, how are demons affecting a Christian if I'm born again and I have the Holy Spirit? Well, that's because the Holy Spirit's in our spirit man and our soul, our emotions is different. One other thing I want to say about helping someone receive God's love to get healing for soul wounds is appropriate, healthy touch. Every person needs human touch. And you ever shake somebody's hand and it's like their hands limp? You know how that feels? If you are not authentic in your ministry, that person will know it. Just like shaking someone's hand with a limp hand. You're just like, you don't even want to touch their hand. Gross. And something about that I had so much fear for so long because man, I just love touching people. I put my hand in the chest and I hold them and I just don't know how to be sissy or whatever. Teddy bear. I don't care. I want them to experience God's love. That's right. So what you said is absolutely correct. So the thing that I always struggled with because I always asked Rick because man, you have to stop doing it. You're going to pick up demons. I don't agree with that anymore. When I'm helping someone and with them it's love of God flowing through me and it overcomes all. It drives back demons. Perfect love, right? I believe that I can blow you down because I don't. I just make sure I just cast off and came in. But man, give them all you've got. Everything you have, everything you're loving. God will flow through you into them. Totally, totally. You're reaching in your arms and getting free. 100%. There's a hugging anointing. Peak has the hugging anointing. Kelly has the hugging anointing. Yeah. Mike, he's got that hugging anointing that, you know, I watched it last Tuesday. Sister Renju, she just hugged this woman as she cried. Yeah. And she wasn't in a hurry to stop hugging her. And the woman just cried. There's no casting out. She just prayed the love of the father over her and this woman just wept. She sobbed. And I know she left here feeling better and a portion of her soul was healed that night because of that genuine authenticity. And so if you say, wow, I have a hard time with that. Ask the father. You need healing. Yes. You know, ask the father. Yeah, he's got to heal you and ask him to help you. So he always wants to help us. Yes. I'm going to share. Come on and share and go ahead. No. So I had come to the delivery center once. Had a one-on-one with Julie and Kelly me. And then I think it was my third time when I was, you know, came to the altar. And I came to come over and prayed with me. And then afterwards with the parent that that was it for the night. You just gave me this warm embrace. You were standing there. And you just held me with such love. And I walked away so touched by that. And that was, I've never experienced love like that from a stranger. They make me cry, Christina. So I shared a little bit of my testimony of how I was hurt a lot. And I praise God for the women, the strangers that ministered to me through hugs and words of encouragement. Just, just saying, hi, how are you? I'm so glad you came and a smile. You know, that brings healing. The Bible says they will know you by your love, by your love. So I didn't always know the Father's love. And I'm still growing in that. I think we always will grow until we're taken to be with him in heaven. So be patient with yourself and ask God to teach you how to love. Because really, if we try to love from ourselves, we're going to do it wrong. And we'll mess it up and we could cause more hurt than good. You have an idea, oh, this is how I should do it. Ask God, say, God, just show me how to do that. And it's through, he's going to love you. And he teaches you about love as he loves you. And then you're able to give that out. Yeah, there's a lot of lovers in this room, so I know. I'm not even, I don't know, I'm speaking to the YouTubers. So, yeah. Brother P, you got one more thing? One more thing. So to help you guys, just to speak from what I've learned, it's like, I think, I don't have women. I don't like, I don't do a lot of work. I cast spirits out of women, but I don't really hug them and do that thing like I do with dudes. Because I think you shouldn't. I think women should work with women and dudes. You should work with dudes when you're in grace and hugging stuff. Or the way I do it, a woman might take it kind of weird. Thank you. And I wanted to say that appropriate touch. Good, so bringing me back down to my last point and then I'll hand it over to Joe. So, appropriate touch. So, yeah, women to women, that's, I would say that's 90% of the, I say 90% of the time because I don't know, you know, I'm glad to be older. One of the blessings of getting older is if you're, if you could be my child, then I can touch you. That's how I feel. When I was a new teacher, I was in my 20s and those kids, you know, high schoolers, teenagers, they were just a little too close in age to me. So I didn't feel like I could hug them and be, but now, you know, 20 years old, that could be my child right there. But I'm very aware I'm a woman and I need to be careful. We give side hugs, you know, that kind of thing, but even just putting a hand on a shoulder. Okay, shoulder is good to touch the opposite sex or the forearm, just a touch like that. Maybe the middle of their back, a light touch. You're not going to do one of these. No, you're not going to do that. Okay, you know, a lot of times I'll hug women from the side because I'll just let them, you know, cry. And that, that is, I don't know, God loves it. I think he loves it because it's, I've seen a lot of healing through that type of, of hugging. And so anyway, guys, yeah, if you have that father's heart, you know, and hug a man, you know, God will teach you how to do it. And women, I mean, I'm talk, I know most every woman in here and I know you guys are great hookers and lovers. So I don't have to teach you anything, but just encourage you, yeah, yeah, use that hugging, anointing, use that love that father's given you and love yourself, right? You have to love yourself. So appropriate touch. Yes. You guys don't know who Caroline is? You know what it is? She talks about the number one cause of death in the world is lack of love. People die from heart attacks and other diseases, but their cause of that is the level of lack of love because God made us to be, to love and be loved. You know, so that's what it's important we're talking about right now. It's important for us to be able to be used by God, by our words, by our mouth, to give that touching touch to that person. Because, you know, we, we may be loved, we may be okay, but we don't know how that person comes into this mess. I'm working hard to help you. Yep, yep. And if you don't know how much God loves you, you're going to have a hard time loving other people. That's true. Yeah. If you will not receive God's love, how can you give his love? Yes, right. He said, I am your ever present help in time of trouble. Ever present, always present. Always wants to help. Always. He's collecting your tears. He's um, I was last Tuesday and I'll finish with this little story. I was uh, I don't know, I think it was last Tuesday, I don't know what it was, but I, I kind of got a quick image of my mind of the father um, cheering for us, like a dad on the sidelines at a soccer game. Very excited and cheering their kid on, you know, about to make the goal. And that's, that's our father in heaven. He is so excited. He's cheering for us. He wants us to win. He wants us to be healed. He wants us to be delivered. He wants that for us. He's a perfect father. And he leads us in paths of righteousness. He restores our soul. He can, he's trustworthy. We, not so trustworthy. We're not so faithful, but he's always faithful. And we can trust him in every situation. Even like today, I'm on my walk. I'm thinking I'm going to be a consumer today. Training. I get the call and I haven't been feeling so good this last week. And I, and I could have said, no, I don't think I'm up to it. But I was just like, no, yeah, I'll do it. Sure. Lord, you tell me what to say. We'll just go for it and have fun. So I'm glad. I've taken up 10 more minutes and I planned. I want to introduce to you my very good friend, Joe Torg. We've seen him pray and he's actually got a lot of wisdom and a lot of knowledge. He knows the word of God. He knows the love of the Father. He cares about people. And I hope he shares from his heart and doesn't hold back today. Let's give it up for Joe. Yay! Thanks. All right. I was kind of hoping that Julie would say something like, he's just getting started and he's paid for a couple people and occasionally he picks up the Bible. Now I got to live up to that. Yeah. No. Thank you, sir. Occasionally he needs help. There you go, brother. Actually, let me get my milk pad. All right. So, wow. Yeah. So last minute I find out I'm asked to do this or Mike could cancel. I was thinking, cancel, cancel. I'm like, well, maybe I'll be in front of a bunch of new people and I could just tell them, you know, what it's like to just get started. You don't know what you're doing. You just pushed out there and I'm surrounded by veterans and teachers. Thanks for coming, Dave. Thank you. So I don't know where to start. I'll say one obstacle I have continually because I had a struggle with, I guess maybe I should give you a little bit of my testimony. So I grew up, I was the youngest of six kids and so I kind of had, you know, my five siblings and two parents. I basically had seven parents. And so, real easy for rejection to get in their confusion. None of them agree with each other but they're all telling you how you should live your life, my life. So that's how it started. So I had a performance spirit and I was raised Roman Catholic. I'm going to try to keep this really short. So I went to undergrad at the U of A, went to dental school in Colorado, dropped out, was dealing with depression. I tried to get help with the Roman Catholic Church. And they couldn't help me. I was put on Zoloft, which I didn't want to do. I knew enough about biochemistry in my background that they don't know what they're doing. But I was so desperate and I was struggling with this. And so I got on that. Zoloft is an SSRI. It's kind of like Prozac, Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor. So it's supposed to help you with a lot of things, depression. So I got on that. I dropped out of dental school. I thought, you know what? I've been walking the straight line. Maybe that's my problem. I need to just relax. So I got, I started drinking. I got heavily involved in bad behavior. And eventually, oh, and then I got into New Age. I was in martial arts and did all this stuff. Which of course opens doors for a flood of demons to get into your mind, into your body. And eventually I got to AA. After 14 years in AA, I realized that I needed something else. I was introduced to Christ through one of my sponsors. But it was almost like another Jesus. There's other Jesuses out there. They look very similar, but they're not. They're not. And you won't know that unless you start reading the Bible. I'm like, well, this doesn't line up with scripture. So I think I somehow, by the grace of God, I was introduced to Frank Hammond's teachings, Derek Prince. And I started thinking, oh, at some point, I guess I thought evil was just absence of knowledge. I thought the only reason there's evil in the world is people are they don't know. But then I realized at some point, I realized that evil was not lack of knowledge. Evil was a person. Because there are just things that I couldn't explain. The way people make decisions, you give them all this information and they still make bad decisions. It's like, you're not accepting. You're not receiving the love of the truth. You don't have the love of the truth. And I felt in a way, I was struggling with that. But when I was reading Derek Prince, I'm like, and I'm studying the Bible. I'm like, what, demons? I thought that was a psychological explanation. They're actually people without bodies. Well, they're not people. Like Mike said, my people are humans. Okay, they're persons without bodies. Why don't you correct me soon? Oh, you're giving me grace. Thank you. So eventually I got in touch with Mike November 10th, 2018. And first I got to say thank God for Tracy Smith. I met her once. And Tracy Smith is Mike's daughter. And I know God has various ways to save his children. But if she didn't choose to come back from death to life, because that's what I understand. I believe her testimony. You know Mike Smith? I mean, maybe God would have used somebody else. But I'm thanking Tracy Smith. You saved my life. Because you saved your father's life. Okay, so I met Mike and Tucson. He introduced me to somebody down there, Danny Morales. And he works with Teen Challenge. And so I started hanging out with Danny Morales and seeing how they pray for people. And they did some deliverance. And eventually that led me to come to do a one-on-one here. And Rick interviewed me. And after that one interview, Mike asked me to participate to be on the team. I didn't understand why. So that was in like May 2019. And of course, all of you that have worked with Mike know that once you get your deliverance, a lot of times he'll pick you out. If he sees, he checks your heart. If you have a good heart, I think, I don't know why. Mike has good discernment. And he doesn't let everybody on the team. But he'll say, okay, why don't you join the team? And you think, okay, where's the training book? The training's in that room. You hear that screaming? Go in there. Just throws you in there. And go pray. So you've got to learn. I had to learn my own technique or whatever you want to call it, the technique. And I was trying, with my background, biochemistry, electrical engineering, I like to study things first, then go to the lab. No, Mike just says, here's the lab. Go start playing with some chemicals. See what blows up. Don't do that again. And blows up in your face. Just take responsibility for it. But don't be hard on yourself. Go ahead and screw up a lot. Learn from your mistakes. So I think with me, I know that we often do a lot of things differently, each minister. And we're comfortable with doing some things that others aren't. And sometimes we base our advice to others on our experience. But I try to be careful with that, because I know Pete, you don't hug women. I hug women sometimes. And when they start complaining, then I won't do that again. But I don't know. I can't make hard, fast rules. Which is frustrating, because with my background in science, you have rules. You have, you can't, you got to operate with the Holy Ghost. But how can you do that if you're not in the Word? The whole purpose, the whole purpose of the deliverance, in my opinion, is not so that your life gets better. So when I'm ministering to somebody, I'm trying to remember, I don't want them just to get better and comfortable again, so they can go back to the world. I try to remember that the primary purpose of deliverance is to help you get one step closer to Jesus. And if you remember that, not only will grace cover your mistakes, God will make you look good. But you have to remain humble, because the devil will know that too, and he'll try to say, hey look how good you are. You're ready to step up on the stage and start teaching. He'll, he's so, he perverts everything. But he can't do it if you keep, stay humble, stay loving. So when I start off, I know I'm speaking to a lot of people that you've already got your style. I know we've got YouTubers, but I personally, I try to locate people. There's a difference between one-on-ones where you have a couple hours and the altar call. So early on, I had to create this picture in my mind, because there's times when I had scripture that I've known I could, I could repeat at any time of the day. But when I went into the, into the large sanctuary where there's all this screaming and yelling and shouting and get out, get out of there, get up. You know, it's like, I can't remember that scripture early on. Now it's a little different, but early on it was like that. And so I had to paint this picture on how to do like a two-minute interview with people that are at the altar call. So I try to ask them, is this your first time here? Have you done deliverance before? If they've done deliverance before, then I'm like, oh shoot. They know too much. They might know too much. They know more than me, right? So what I was going to back up, what I was going to say about when you're starting ministry, some of us have this problem. I have this issue where if somebody is confident in what they're saying, I tend to back down, right? And so God has helped me to overcome that and say that just because this person is a pastor of a church and I'm ministering to them and they're confident and they think they know what spirit they have, I'm going to reach deep down inside and just trust that I may not have his ability. I may not have his skills. I'm only here as a yielded vessel to the best of my ability. My job is to be available. And so even I've talked to people that are very confident. They know what they think. And sometimes I'll do a little ministry to them and they're like, once I feel like they're not receiving, there's other people I could pray for or it's time to pack it up and go home because I'm not doing them help by cosigning their BS. But I can help somehow. So that's one thing. Just because somebody's confident doesn't mean, what can I do? I can pray for them. I can ask for somebody else. So that's when you're just starting out. Yes, go ahead. So how do you move when you realize the person's not receiving? What is your method? I've gotten better at praying from multiple people but in the beginning I could not move away from one person. And then, you know, Erica... Could you give me an example? Well, hey, if I start praying with somebody, I'm there until the lights are coming on. I didn't know how to move. Okay, so... When you notice, okay, this person is receiving... Yeah, what do you do? How do you handle that situation so you can move on to other people? So for me, I try to develop new habits by just doing it even if it's uncomfortable. Like, maybe I should stay with them but I want to get out of this habit of just... So I'll just say I'll be right back and I'll walk away and then I'll come back. Because you're changing your behavior, right? Or I'm changing my behavior. So, yeah, I had this issue early on where I'm like, okay, I got to pray for as many people as possible. How are you doing? What's your problem? Okay, oh, God bless you. Right? Because you already took up 30 seconds. The altar call is almost over, right? I'm panicking. A few minutes. And other times, I'm like, my gosh, I've been with this person for 20 minutes. But then you come to realize, no, this person is repentant. Why am I jumping around to all these people that are just like this? Yeah, I got a Kundalini. Can you knock that out? I got... Quality over quantity. Quality over quantity. But that's something you have to... just by screwing up a lot. And hopefully learning from your spirits. So, yes. And one thing that I do sometimes, if I'm working some in the needle, they're not getting deliverance. And my five, 10 minutes goes by. It's uncomfortable. It's kind of a downer, actually. Especially if you have three of those in a row. Like, hey, I think maybe you got some... your unforgiveness. You're holding something against something. Do you have something on you? Have you done the miracle? Have you worked through that all? And usually they say, hang on, I'll run and get them on. And I'll say, hey, let's work on this. I didn't send in their dues. I'll say, hey, you can go to Julie's class. You can watch it online if you have any questions. It's a perfect thing to point them to, because then they can work through it. And then come back and see us again and move on to the next person. That's kind of what I do. It works out good. I think what helped me early on is when I first started, there were so many veterans that it was easy for me to ask for help. Once you've been here a while, sometimes... I'm not supposed to be asking help. No. Ask anybody. I'm having a block right here. And you've got the corporate anointing, but you can also bring someone else's anointing. And it takes the pressure off of you, yes. Oh, sorry. I was going to wait my turn. I don't want to interrupt you. No, that's fine. Well, something I think I want to share about kind of generally what we're talking about is we're all on a path of learning God's ways and walking in the spirit and discerning things in the spirit. I've known the Lord now for about 20 years, but I've perceived that over time, if I lay hands on someone or if I'm praying for someone, there are things that can be discerned in the spirit as you're praying for them. You can sense how their spirit is receiving the prayer or their soul is receiving the prayer. You can sense if they're resisting it. As a sidebar to that, for like 15 years of my walk now, I can look at a publication if I'm out somewhere and I can instantly tell if it's not a Christian publication. I can feel it in the spirit. And then I pick it up and sure enough, it's like, Jehovah's Witnesses of this and that. Probably all of you can do that, but it's like we have to practice letting the Holy Spirit allow us to discern those things, or watching what is the Holy Spirit trying to do. I'm not just having my mental experience of reality. I have the mind of Christ and Christ is trying to do something in me. You know what I mean? And sometimes even a thought the other day, I was communicating with a friend, she's kind of axled and the Lord suddenly brought a lyric of a song to my mind and I'm trying to encourage her to walk with the Lord. I send her that song. She goes, I used to leave that song in the church. I said, well, that's probably why the Lord just brought it to my mind. You know, it's things like that and that experience with others and reality and whatnot. Right. Okay. So, thank you. Yes. One more quick thing on that note. What she's saying, that is a guy here. He's not here today, but he's not on our team, but he's, I'm sure he will be soon. He has just incredible discernment. My wife has good discernment too, but she's doing everything. I always grab him and have him following me around and I always ask him, bro, and he goes, this is, and he's always dead on. You know, he's got that. I think because I'm busy praying with the dude and I have trouble. You mean dead on like interpreting what you're the discerning of. He has killer discernment minus discerning of spirits or just discernment? Just discerning of what's troubling. I was asking, what's troubling? It's his dad. I have to give his dad. That's nice. So that's why that's why it's nice to get started when you're working with the team. I don't know how I would direct somebody that's just getting started and they go back and do deliverance without experiencing you know, having that backup I guess so I can only explain based on my experience but yeah, somebody that's just learning whether you're on YouTube, whatever and I guess you just got to remember that you're not alone. He who created all these things is in you. So Yes. Did you talk about the hand chart yet? No. Yeah, I'll get to that. So about locating people, so I'll ask so you got like two minutes you don't want to take too much time because you don't have that much time to get these spirits out so I think with the altar call you can't, it's very hard to get the controllers out, right? My mindset is get enough spirits out that they recognize the value of deliverance that they'll come back and maybe try to get them to register that you're not going to, like I used to think when I first was introduced to deliverance I'm going to get these spirits out and then I'm going to like in just a one hour session or 10 minute session just kick them out and but they're on most, a lot of us they're on and they come on in layers like in the hand chart I'll explain in a second as best I can but and then the one on ones that we have here where you're interviewing somebody where it's more intimate then you can you don't have to start kicking demons out, you could spend maybe an hour just talking or letting them talk just sit there talk, let them talk and maybe ask some questions but again that I'm still working on that, that takes a lot of screw ups like it's nice to learn when somebody, a veteran is with you so it's all, Jesus says wherever one is gathered in my name no, he said wherever two or three are gathered in my name so it's always I mean best to work with someone else filled with the Holy Spirit and so yeah so what I ask them actually I haven't been doing that lately I wish I did it last night but it worked out how much do you know about deliverance and then you want to get to the root cause so you can't get to everyone in two minutes so you just like who hurts you, like Julie explained who hurts you, who hurts you when you were young and if you just focus on who hurts you when you were young what's your relationship like with your parents those two I think you'll go far at a two minute at the altar call and follow the emotions Mike always talks about how the emotions are the thermometer to the soul and you start asking people so anybody hurt you yeah my brother but I forget them two more okay brother alright who else hurt you, my sister okay how are you doing with your sister oh we're good we talk like every other day and we're okay probably brother's a good start so you forgave your brother but you have ought you have negative feelings towards him so you follow that and then try to make sure that they're relaxed you know try to keep people are tense and stuff even when you're casting out demons you know just try to get them to try but it seems that people get more deliverance when they're relaxed and and then the last thing I do is I try to leave them with something gift of tongues handouts are you working on the miracle list do you know the value of speaking in tongues we have a Glosa handout I try I don't know if we do this enough the Satan's counter attack talking about not I don't know if this is true but it seems to be true to me once you get spirits out certain spirits out and they come back in it's harder to get them back out not because it's seven fold worse I don't think it's that it's just the person gets disappointed they lose their fight I don't know what it is but I try to get people to remember hey they're gonna try to get back in within 48 hours is what we've been taught here and so I try to get them to realize hey be on guard but don't be afraid either how do you be on guard and not be afraid so um so I try to leave them with something uh so what I found um is that probably 90% of Christians have a rejection spirit and so when I when I first learned about this this hand chart by item A Hammond um I don't know if I should reveal this or not um because it's in the chapter called Schizophrenia and I don't want people think I'm accusing them of having Schizophrenia no when she first was introduced to the hand chart I'm basing this on some things that I've heard from their teachings uh it was like a last minute thing item A presented it to her husband and said hey I've got this this message from God can you put that in your in your book and they were originally dealing with a woman that was um I don't know if she had full blown Schizophrenia but she had some symptoms that God let them let item A to believe hey what she has is Schizophrenia um another soul Dipsicus means two souls um I know the bible it says you have uh double minded thank you for that so it's not an appropriate well in a way it's appropriate because you're dealing with your mind that other person's mind that's trying to impersonate you and you've got the mind of Christ right and so she was born again Spirit filled Christian and um and so they were trying to minister to her so Frank Hammond later on years later explained that he to his surprise found out that some of these spirits were in him not all of them but so he started to realize no what it is is that this is the network and infrastructure that the devil's trying to build in my opinion in every single human being and so if you tell me you don't have fear I'm not going to believe you if you don't have you've never had a fear spirit he's I think he starts off with fear he starts off with the rejection which is the controller that kind of he kind of he's not like really active in battle he's like a general he's not out in the front line now this is all speculation right just say that I don't have biblical scripture to support this but it's speculation on how trying to understand how this operates and from based on my experience and from what I've been taught that he starts introducing these other spirits so I mean back up so Frank Hammond found out that you should memorize he I remember him saying if you're if you're going through the pigs in the parlor groupings does everybody know about the groupings if you go through that somebody told him hey I went through all the groupings I was casting out devils blah blah blah and he's like shame on you you're supposed to follow the Holy Ghost well later on that's true but later on Frank Hammond says I think you should memorize the hand chart so I'm like okay we're supposed to memorize these or not memorize supposed to go by the Holy Ghost I think it's okay to for me what I do is I create kind of a pattern because I I don't know what I'm doing I need something to fall back on right so at some point for my own purposes I memorize this whole hand chart and because I was desperate when you're desperate you'll do some weird things you will do some things that in the end God will use so when I heard that message I thought I'm gonna try this I'm gonna start using this hand chart when I'm ministering to people I know they don't have mental illness so it shouldn't work right but I start casting out vivid imagination working with lies I start casting out root of bitterness working with rebellion and they're just wow now I mean I don't know if I'm going through all these methodically I'm trying to explain to people hey if I tell you I'm casting out murder I'm not saying you have a murder that you murdered someone I'm just saying you might have some resentment bitterness retaliation and a spirit of murder somehow got in he wants to drive you to murder if you have a spirit of suicide it doesn't mean you're dead you didn't commit suicide so I try to explain these things because some people they'll get offended to this day people that have chemistry deliverance I'll say something and I'm like I don't have that I don't do that and so if they get offended that's a blocker the deliverance stops if I offend them deliverance so I have to gain their trust and that's the main thing is you want people to trust you and if you're operating in love I think people are going to trust you but you're going to make mistakes and even though you're being loving they'll still get offended they might be a plant anyway so so the way this operates of course if you haven't understood it is basically I will bind self pity working with rejection root of bitterness working with rebellion and then I'll go from there you'll say those exact words like I find working yeah I try not to be religious about it at first I was because it's hard to hear it's hard to operate for me at least it felt like it was hard for me to operate in the spirit when all I could hear was I'm hearing everybody else but after a while you are so focused because you've screwed up enough to learn right because you're not going to learn until you start screwing up it's almost like a process of elimination okay don't use those you got to learn your own technique I was trying to do things like the way other people were doing it other veteran ministers and that's good start there you know I try to I try to do things like I would get in a comfort mode I was using this and after a while it stopped working and I'm thinking what's going on I breathed the Holy Spirit and I thought well God doesn't want to if Jesus didn't heal people the same way the same problem blindness Mike was talking about you know sometimes he would spit sometimes he lay hands sometimes he just said do you believe I can do this then as you believe receive your sight so I believe it's the same way and Frank Hammond talks about that that sometimes you'll get the controller out and then all the all the helpers will come out you'll get the helpers out and sometimes and then the controller will come out and sometimes you'll cast out 20 spirits nothing happens then all of them come out now how do you know that I don't know you just I just keep going just keep going just keep I have one for you yes sometimes praying with people I get these a lot actually um someone said I'm praying with a woman and say the whole the whole issue is with her boyfriend or her husband it seems that they always will come over and latch on and be listening to the whole prayer like blocking because they need to be cast out or that hurt or that the person you're ministering will hug the person I'm ministering to their boyfriend or the mother will be like right in there and they're actually the problem so it's difficult to minister to them okay you need to forgive your mother or your boyfriend but boyfriend is right there so so sister Julie reminded me that I didn't know this at the healing house or or is it house of healing now I forget the old place the first ministry that Mike would say he would do his teaching give it a five minute break and then he'd start deliverance he said okay now if you came here with somebody get on the opposite sides of the room from each other and we don't I guess we don't do that but yeah that's plus of course we know like in children's deliverance these spirits if they receive comfort from anyone from the mother it's harder to get them out so you try to get the baby or infant child whatever away from the right so I think it's the same or I'm praying with a woman an abuser or boyfriend is like right there or the mother or the controlling mother is right there you know and they don't like I want to tell them go away I'll start looking for somebody looking for Peter someone to come pray with that person to separate them okay that's great yeah that's a good point you know I was thinking like am I going to answer your question because I don't have an answer but you answered it yeah so that's why you do need how do you how can you be discreet how do you maintain both people's trust and so I guess I guess you would go to another team member and say hey um this family needs prayer can you take them and I'll take so and so so yeah so thank you thank you for that right yeah I just if I know I had a situation where I had a girl her brother wanted to be right next to her and it wasn't that particular brother that was the problem but another brother in the family and through a word of knowledge got revealed that her issue had to do with her use and once I got the brother away from her she started to get deliverance and that was difficult uh and we had to get them separated because she didn't want to I don't know appear weak or tell what the real problem was or admit to it or whatever whatever was going on he was hindering yes yes right so it's family sometimes there was a little girl that used to come here and she hasn't been here for a while but the dad was that way too and I know there was a use there and I was like he needed to go you know he was afraid to feel his fear she was going to tell something he was getting deliverance too he was going through his thing but there was like a secret there that he wasn't letting yeah because he was too great for that kid yeah so I don't know if it was a lie I'm kind of stumped looking for someone to come help just a reminder what we're discussing is like the obstacles at alter call of course a lot of this is resolved when you're doing one on one it's a lot easier wouldn't you find it something like to that person and do you mind if I speak to her because then you're like it'd be really hard for someone to say no to that like or yes I might like there would be like the person to do that so most of the time they're going to say yeah then they're kind of disarmed and they kind of rubber stamped it so it's like if you mind if I just talk to her in private yeah but I think on the flip side somebody else is going from person to person praying for somebody looking for somebody else and you might just be aware that okay we've got vultures over there let me try to go hey can I so the person can minister to probably a lot of times it's someone younger or someone who's who's been subject to a more concerned role in a relationship that you might even be able to pick up someone being domineering in the situation then now because you shared that word too to that I apologize I might not have a place to speak but careful especially female to male if you're asking a male to leave they may stand up exactly domineering and a male to a woman she may feel that you're pushing her away from her child or another and it wells up emotion in people that might be difficult to deal with alone the coming together two on two doing things singly it just I know from my experience I'm a huge male you're a huge male just that appearance to somebody in a role where you're telling them what to do could you please leave us alone I wouldn't say like that can you give us a moment of privacy we're going to go so that they can see and you're being obviously considerate of them you're not trying to like thumb your nose at them I'm not saying you're doing the wrong thing I'm saying their reaction might be unforeseen be prepared for that because they're already kind of being pushed so it's a difficult situation no matter what so so right right right so so real quick Robert yeah yeah so so so so so I'm reflecting on Robert Fisher taught me a lot and he would say you know when you're praying for somebody you really can't screw it up you really can't screw up deliverance but I was reflecting on that more and more over time and I'm thinking you know how we when we make statements we're basing them on our own experience and our own personality Robert is a loving person I don't think you can use that with every minister some ministers that's they're going to screw up because of their personality stinks so they shouldn't be in deliverance ministry so but he remind me of something else that no matter how much you want to help this person you your face may look like somebody that hurt them they don't know why so if you can't help someone don't take it it's hard not to but try not to take it personally it might not be you it's just it's the shirt you're wearing something, anything because it's not you and it's not them it's the spirits in them trying to get them to not trust you or not trust the process so does that make sense and a lot of times those spirits are any little thing to find wrong to take offense to right right Christina oh yeah it's just when we go back to get our badges Kelly's going to order us some flags that we put in our back pocket and one more haven't trouble and that way when we have a boss and what we're doing we can look around and see if any flags are being yes is that what it's for I thought it's like you're hearing somebody saying what did you say you're out of line that's it you're out no that is good what color are they going to be green can you see that glow in the dark thank you yes ma'am I wanted to say something Christina I was in a 24 hour prayer center and they actually had the different colors like if somebody was like maybe suicidal and you weren't first on that you could hit the flag one way and red would be there so actually it worked I have a question where I've seen and it's not but the Holy Spirit may reveal and I see people maybe holding a person's nose or like there may be constrictor spirits and maybe their head or mind control you mean like where to lay your hands and stuff it looks like you're holding your nose like so just speculation on my part I do that sometimes because I'm following Mike so we know that the brain is attached to the sinuses in your there's many sinuses but I know that when we're doing deliverance a lot of people drain spirits come out that way I don't know if that's why sometimes it doesn't matter why does it work my background is learning things through models and then going out into the real world and we don't do that here we don't see the spirit I mean a lot of this is it speculation I don't know but it works for me I got something I can say to that so he does that fear spirit oh fear yeah right here oh fear spirit specifically here and in the gut okay anxiety will do anxiety but I know for sure fear yeah it like aggravates them it stirs them up sometimes you'll come right close to you to stir up the spirits oh yeah yeah yes sir you mentioned cast out a murder spirit remember this one guy even though he didn't commit the murder come to find out his dad did so we know the spirits they hit the kids so that's what happens so that can happen too right generational transfer spirits so I probably don't need to cover this to you but of course our ministry is our foundation is repentance forgiveness those two but I think we take a third component we don't really mention which is renewing the mind so my understanding and please when I explain this you can fill in the gaps maybe so first of all repentance some people they committed a sin for example abortion we know it's wrong after they commit it and I've had to read a book and study it read some case studies that's where I'm getting this from that I've learned that you can so God says the word of God says he who covers his sin shall not prosper but he who confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy some people have forsaken their sins but they haven't confessed it as a sin to God I don't know why that's necessary in some cases but I read a case where a woman had an abortion but once she confessed it as murder she got free of that guilt she got free of that shame she got those wounds healed just by I mean she already repented now most, a lot of cases I say the problem, people are they're confessing their sins I'm watching porn okay you confess that it's a sin, yes okay, so you stop no, I still can't um, okay so you're not repenting you just said you're repenting they're just words so repentance, two components the other two components are um I'm sorry, the other one is forgiveness and of course we know you release the person they don't owe me anything I still don't like them I still have bad feelings about well now you've still got thought so you have to say justice for them because if I want justice for them justice is going to come on me and I want that, I want mercy you have to not expect an apology right, and it's hard and sometimes you have to the enemy keeps coming back memory recall spirits right and then the third of course is renewing the mind but that takes time that takes reading the word and making sure you're not reading out of the NIV I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry any modern version any modern version Texas was set to be no, no, no, no, I'm sorry the nearly inspired version is okay to read but just, I'm sorry I'm sorry I retract that, can we rewind that but yeah, so and then of course fellowship renewing the mind, don't just anyway, that's a whole Bible study how to renew the mind I think anyway, yes sir you had a question sir oh I just want to say sin is corruption, corruption of the heart when the heart comes through then it gets worms and stuff and starts going in it grows and it grows anger and all, and the devil comes to live in the dirt, in the nastiness of your heart but if you purify your heart and it's hard to do it until you start practicing it and say Lord, I give this to you and I learned just by God asking hey can I have that, all that crap in your heart and I said really, take it please and I still started rejoicing and Lord, I changed my mind I I read and all that stuff go that was burning me down and then when I was free then the spirit was free to live through me and in me and I just try to be alive with compassion to others if I don't have love for others I can't do nothing for nobody right, so so we get rid of the sin and it can be spiritual too right, but what I'm trying to explain is how do you minister to people over through the power of the Holy Spirit we walk in faith we walk in the spirit, not only are we led by the spirit but we walk in the spirit and when we're walking in the spirit and that's the light of the world okay and the darkness can't overcome the light we overcome the darkness in the light and sometimes that takes pain for those who despitefully use you it's just for the name of Jesus for what you believe loving people that hate you doing good to those who steal and take from you just returning, just keep healing away at it sometimes it takes forever sometimes it takes what it takes but are you willing to go how much are you willing to give are you willing to become a living sacrifice now also you got so what you're saying is basically what you're saying what you're saying is basically supporting what I'm talking about that issue of you can get people to repent and forgive but how do you get them how do you how do you get them to actually repent by confessing Christ is their Lord and Savior saying Lord I need you every day amen amen okay so back to deliverance training any other questions we still got what half an hour so yes I think that forsaking thing is great because that's something that's not on the forefront of my mind even though I may have done it but that's homework you can give people and say okay you've repented now you've got to forsake it but you can't pick up that offense you can't pick up that bitterness oh start being critical of them because they remind you of this side of another but you have to like forsake it like it's gone that's why you know what is it Hebrews 12 talks about lay aside every weight and the sin that so easily ensnares us and I interpret that sometimes the Bible is so simple I don't get it because of my background I what do you call it over processing I have to start inserting words okay what if I put a different word oh now I see what it doesn't say so I think when it says lay aside every weight and the sin that so easily ensnares us it says lay aside every weight that so easily ensnares us and the sin that so easily ensnares us so not all of our behavior is sinful but it can it can choke the word it could lead you back into sin it could lead you into discouragement it could lead you to start having so we talk about doubt and unbelief the word of God says that faith comes from hearing and hearing the word of God so where does doubt come from we often think doubt's a spirit where does doubt come from doubt also comes from hearing and hearing the word of God of this age or the news the world creates doubt I heard Andrew Womack explain it that 2,000 years ago it might have taken a year for negative news to get from one side of the world to the other now it takes seconds for negative information to get to our ears and so our problem is not whether we receive information or not it's having the discernment where you know I ain't getting on Facebook I keep getting triggered I keep but the hard part is not making that a religious statement for others just because it's bad for you don't start telling others hey you gotta stay off Facebook that's evil back off come on and so yes ma'am so so there's a lot of things I have to cut out of my life just because I keep thinking man how did I get back in and I have to backtrack it sometimes you gotta figure out how did you get here why so you don't do it again but you have to learn your own behavior learn not the wiles of the devil on how he's operating on others how is he working on you it's tailored to your own affections he's constantly using the same devices on the others it's used on you it doesn't thank you for those of you who are want to share for raising your hand first so yes go ahead I definitely think in this walk with Christ and being conformed into his image and actively letting him flow through us etc we've got a renewing of the mind's thought actions etc so one thing that I feel the Lord showed me about 15 years ago that's been revolutionary in my life and some people if they pick it up in their lives they say oh they come back to me say it's been revolutionary is to like that speaks to the specific area you need healing you need deliverance and you need to stop sinning in and choose to take that one or two scriptures and personalize it meditate on it do the biblical meditation where you like walk through a scripture and decide at every point as you're thinking through it do I believe this yes I really believe this and have that be a foundational thing instead of whatever thought or action that's not of God so in my case like for instance I at some point had to decide do I really believe God is a good God I'm going through all this pain loss etc do I believe God is a good God so for me it was does Hannah really believe John 16 so for God so loved Hannah do I believe that do I literally feel in my spirit that I truly believe just those words for God so loved Hannah yes I did that he gave do I believe that yes I believe he gave his only to God son and truly believe the word and the word renews the mind creates new neural pathways creates changes in the spirit and the other thing is you really can only think one thought at a time you really can only think one thought at a time so if that one thought you're thinking is on the word unless you have familiar spirits well I've never thought of another thought but maybe someone else I don't mean you I meant that person thank you God and it's like so for me I was delivered from like 20 years of depression I'm meditating on the word and anytime I would deal any of it creep in I would fixate on something about the word choose to believe it and was healed in that so I just in case anyone wants to try that you might so so why did I say that because if someone standing in front of you and they have one or two areas of sin and you're trying to minister give them one or two descriptions say here's your homework assignment actually for the next 48 hours meditate on these scriptures believe these scriptures you know memorize them and every time any thought creeps in that's not of the Lord I want you to go right back to those scriptures in case that helps so that does help actually have you worked on the miracle list so so yeah we use that in the miracle list and the miracle list we we encourage people to use to weaken the spirits in fact is that the miracle list does it say oh it doesn't have the introduction so trying to relate to people that these spirits trying to convince people persuade people let them understand these spirits didn't come jump on you overnight right if you're not sinning I don't see how a spirit can just get on you right but we were born and sin at the age of accountability at some point after that we sin we started now let me back up you can get spirits children can get spirits generational because they're defenseless because the authority is not there's it's their parents and they go through that's why some kids can be born with with a spirit of homosexuality they could be born with certain deformities right and behavioral issues but for the most part for the rest of us after that point these spirits start layering and so we try to we can weaken them and hopefully these whoever we're ministering to at the altar call will come and basically I'm kind of just focused on the altar call you want them to come back a lot of people don't come back so this is hard but we I keep trying to do the same thing give them material I may never see them again you know but yeah the the the miracle you know works on the first is who hurt you I think it's basically broken up in in four sections who hurt you what don't you like about yourself what are the thoughts the enemies putting in your head all the time and I think the fourth is godly sorrow and so yeah it in the miracle we try to encourage people to take scripture and apply it to those negative thoughts that are coming in and there's a problem with that because it seems like so many people come to this ministry and they don't even have a Bible which is no excuse if you have a smartphone it's easy to you know but trying to get people in the word and well once you once they start working on the miracle list they're gonna start searching the scriptures I think we need to not be afraid of of asking people well actually we have a support group Julie has a great support group and a lot of videos out there for working the miracle list um so that's part of a precursor to renewing the mind anyway yes sir right now I'm working on being constant not just doing deliverance in one place but everywhere I go I'm looking for someone to reach out with the love of Christ or to bring healing to and you know it's just not only being led by the spirit of walking and the spirit constantly constantly God is the same all the time you know what I mean being about it all the time not just some of the time sometimes we're into God other times we're watching TV I don't even watch TV anymore because it quenches the spirit it's full of lust and negativity it's like my wife I'll watch with my wife these games and even that you know distracts me from the things of God I like praising God and right now I don't have a phone I have nothing so my praise comes from the heart the word is in me I the God is for me right now I'm fighting I'm going through it but hey praise God thank you Jesus I'm going through it most people but I'm staying strong I'm going through the last test and that's the rejection people rejecting me not because of bad things that I do but because of what I believe so now I gotta go through that and trust God that He's for me that He's going to do what He said He's going to do that He's been faithful to finish what He started and that I need Him that without Him I'm lost so I'm making it praise God thank you Jesus by the grace of God every day and I know I need Him every day all the time or I can get discouraged and I can get these thinking oh nobody loves me nobody but it doesn't matter God loves me and that's enough I know God loves me He's pulling me from that He's pulling me from thank you Jesus amen amen Joe can you repeat those four things for me who hurt you what don't you like about you godly sorrow oh that's just on the miracle list do you have that yeah yeah I think that's and I hope I got that right does that sound right huh yeah okay so I think it's you would know right who hurt you what don't you like about yourself negative thoughts from the enemy and godly and what's that were you rebellious okay so rebellious against your parents okay so that's kind of okay okay so that's more of right and then and then okay did you get those and then godly sorrow so the word of god often talks about repentance as a gift which kind of confounds me but that's what the word of god says so sometimes when I'm asked to pray you know I'll say thank you god for the gift of godly sorrow which produces repentance leading to salvation or deliverance not to be regretted um if I'm not mistaken the miracle list actually says pray for godly sorrow you can't just say I have got you can't make yourself do it which actually brings us back to before we come to Christ um is that any moment the holy ghost stopped drawing me I dread that thought I'm not coming to god because of anything that's good in my flesh there is nothing good in my flesh can't remember which scripture my um apostle Paul says in me that is in my flesh there is nothing good if he said in me there's nothing good because the holy spirit's in him the holy spirit's in me but in my flesh there's nothing good and so just I have to be drawn to god constantly yeah a lot of this stuff I don't understand and I have to remember that I don't understand sometimes I think I understand and that's when I start my life starts getting jacked up um and so the more you're you're going through your own self deliverance, repentance, forgiveness um renewing your mind and you get to know yourself because most of us don't even know our real personality hasn't we don't know our real personality in the rejection chart it shows this person here which is the real self who is emaciated fortunately still has the smile because he knows Christ is going to help him blow out these spirits come boldly to the throne of grace to obtain mercy right and so I lost my train of thought there real personalities like who we are right so I'll just go through this quickly because we only have about 10 minutes so of course the rejection spirit comes in and somebody hurts you you don't feel you don't feel accepted you don't feel approved, you don't feel loved and so of course the enemy um he wants you to take one of his solutions which is rebellion but he can't get that in first he wants you to take his solution how do I get them to take my solution how do I get them to drink alcohol hmm right thank you so he gets you a problem then he sends you a friend that says hey why don't you drink some of this you'll feel better so he starts he wants this one in rebellion he starts off with rejection then he moves over to getting you to believe that um love is approval from man love is is uh the spell different L-U-S-T lust that um so he tries to pervert what love is notice it's on the wedding finger because he wants you to be wedded to the ways of the world right and he starts loading in these other spirits until you put something on the other the opposing finger so these these spirits the way that item A was explained to her these spirits are like this and you try to separate them right the op so these are like polar opposites and if you have um a dypsychist a double soul I believe you're always alternating between these so this is the uh the pointing finger so is this I reject you I reject me and if you're doing them all the time double-minded you're never balanced you're never letting this guy form you're you're stuck with that personality that the devil's trying to create me and so the opposite of this wedding finger instead of being wedded to the world you're wedded to yourself self-will selfishness stubbornness um so I think that's a good chapter it even though it was originally geared for schizophrenia um I think the reason it offends people is because they keep thinking schizophrenia the way doctors define it once you get over that and say well I don't care what it says I want to get well I want to know Jesus I know Jesus but I don't really know him he keeps surprising me at how meek he is and he actually wants me to be like him and gives me the power to do so so if not for yourself at least for people that you're ministering to I would encourage you to study that chapter um and go out and just start screwing things up I mean there's a there's a caveat I mean you got to know that when you make mistakes of course the enemy's going to try to blow it out of portion and discourage you from moving forward because you don't want to make you don't want to feel it's not that you don't want to make mistakes you don't want to feel that I hurt that person so bad they or I screwed that up or oh man I felt so proud and now and now I lost my anointing no you didn't you just you grieve the Holy Spirit you're not operating in love just just get back just get back with fellow keep fellowshiping with people and um just keep moving forward it's not you anyway it's not me anyway it's the Holy Ghost I'm just available I'm not able to do anything good and that's I'm grafted in the vine I can't do anything anything good comes from above ok so I think we're going to wrap it up quick quick quick for everybody that's going through stuff you're going to be rejoicing the Lord when he's found you worthy I said through many trials and tribulations where you enter into the kingdom of God you got to go through the fire and going through the fire with with him and with you it's easy it's when you start doubting that he's with you that it gets hard seek him draw near to him during the trials and focus your mind on him keep your minds on hold out keep your mind focused on above amen amen amen amen amen amen amen amen ok so we still got five minutes but I think we should just going to end in a usually not um ended so I don't know why I'm cutting this short Father God I just want to thank you for the gathering of the saints here and those online and watching in future broadcasts and I pray that if I said anything that was out of line that you didn't want me to say that it just be washed away forgotten and if I say anything that was helpful that it be magnified that you get the glory thank you that you use imperfect vessels because we can't take credit we can't be tempted we hate pride we come to you in the name of Jesus we thank you for all your provisions we thank you for all the spiritual blessings in the heavenly places which we have received through Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior we thank you that we you commanded us through your word to come boldly to the throne of grace to obtain mercy and find grace to help in a time of need and we always need grace we thank you Lord for calling us to repentance calling us to believe your word all of it even the parts that hurt even the parts that are uncomfortable and we thank you for the gift of faith not our faith not the faith that we have in our flesh but the faith that you've given us through the author and finisher of our faith Jesus Christ we just thank you Lord for helping us to release those people that have hurt us we thank you that we are so privileged in this country right now we still have the word and we're sorry that we don't use it more we don't study it more we don't love it I pray having the Father that receive the love of the truth and I pray blessings on my brothers and sisters that came to see you they didn't come to see me they came to watch the movement the manifest presence of your Holy Spirit and pray you teach us how to develop better relationships with one another to love our enemies to bless those that curse us to do good to those that hate us to pray for those who despitefully use us and persecute us gossip about us speak ill of us lie about us we pray Heavenly Father you send them the Holy Spirit that they may know the love of Christ and pray those watching online and in future broadcasts I pray you bless them Lord if there's anyone opposed to this ministry speaking against this ministry we bless you we love you amen if anyone needs prayer we've got a few ministers here and if you want to come on up for personal prayer or deliverance