 Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE, covering Red Hat Summit 2017, brought to you by Red Hat. Welcome back to Red Hat Summit in Boston, everybody. This is theCUBE, the worldwide leader in live tech coverage. Luis Uginia is here, he's the chief digital officer at Macquarie Bank, and he's joined by Rajay Ray, who's the head of digital engineering at the bank. Gentlemen, welcome to theCUBE. Congratulations on the keynote this morning. Thank you. So, really liked the video, actually they showed your colleague, Richard Healy, said, we're digital first, because your title is digital. And both of your titles. And we look at Uber and Amazon as eBay as the reference model. Most banks, you wouldn't expect that. Where does that come from? Well, basically, if you see the banking industry, we have been a full digital business for a long time. So, we're not any more moving money, real bank notes, on the Pontius Prey. But the biggest issue is, with this full digital backing that we have, where we're moving ones and zeros, we have a quite old approach in terms of the culture and how we're doing things. So, for us, being digital first, means that we have the whole value change is going to be digital. So, from idea to execution, we are removing every single thing that is not pure digital. And this starts with the backend systems, and then is the way we work, the way we empower teams, the way we are doing things in the back. So, Rajee, we saw today, this morning, one of the videos, using OpenShift to take the legacy applications, modernize them. You guys have gone through a similar, not identical, but similar process. Is that correct, and can you describe that? Absolutely. I think what's really important to understand is when you start trying to migrate to the cloud, you've got to consider various aspects of application development and packaging your application. So, if you have a legacy application, your strategy and your container strategy needs to support, it has to be semi-structured, if you know what I mean. You've got new, modern applications that need to be shipped out, and you've got a legacy application that needs to be shipped into a container. And you've got to use the right technology, right strategies, be agnostic to the container. So, what you do is take your applications, make them portable across various, you know, life cycles, and infrastructures that you deploy on. And, Roger, could you explain what's your relationship with public clouds? How do you think about what applications you put where, and it sounds like you've got building in some flexibility into how you're architecting things? So, what we're doing is, of course, we decided our, fundamentally, our objective was, no matter what technology we pick, we need to make sure that we are cloud agnostic. So, you don't want to be picking one cloud provider and putting all your eggs in one basket. You've got to have the flexibility of moving things around, be it hybrid, be it on-prem, be it, you know, on the cloud, or picking any provider you want. So, having a container technology provides you the ability to be portable across various cloud environments. Luis, what's the conversation like in the sort of the corner offices of the bank, and what's your sort of role, input, just in terms of strategy overall, the impact on the industry, the drivers, just wealth management in general, and other activities of the bank? Maybe you could describe that in sort of strategic terms. So, the role basically means, what I'm doing every single day is basically transforming the way we are doing things. So, at the end, you know, we have a clear strategy in terms of how the business needs to behave, but then how the technology is going to help this business is basically the strategic discussion that we have every single day. So, about, you know, moving into the cloud, what we are moving into the cloud, if we are moving mission critical applications or we are just moving, you know, other kind of applications, how we empower the teams to be doing things, what is the overall digital strategy that we have in terms of who is going to be doing what, and, you know, how we are going to modify, how we are going to upgrade the developer experience. So, one of the things that is really important for us, and is key in our digital strategy, is what is probably one of the best assets that we have in Macquarie that is all the engineers that we have. At the end, when you are delivering a full digital experience to the customer, you know, everything is happening on the engineering point, from an engineering point of view. So, for us, discussing with the engineers how is the approach, how we are going to move in different applications, what is going to happen, what, when? So, basically, it's, you know, the discussion that we have every day. And your North Star, so to speak, is a simple and rich user experience, and speed, is the other thing that I heard, and that's really where, presumably, your team comes in. Yes, absolutely. Right? So, you know, the business has come up with ideas, and it's coming in really fast. So, how do you double down on the winners, right? How do you pick the winners? How do you test and learn? So, as an organization, from an engineering perspective, and from a business perspective, what's really important is, for an organization to have a platform for execution, and the platform is not something you buy off the shelf. What you need to do is ensure that you have the right technology, people, processes, and culture, all together, right? To ensure that you have a certain amount of responsible autonomy in picking the technologies and the software that you wish to use, in order to provide more value to the business. So, if you think about, you know, software being the most important thing when it comes to creativity today, how do you provide that in the hands of the developers? So, you know, as Solomon Hike said this from Docker, said, the vision of Docker was to provide tools of mass innovation in the hands of a common developer. And that's what we are attempting to do here. Once we do that, it will free up the ability for our organization or developers to innovate, and not, you know, worry about all the complexities that you have with traditional environments. And containers provide you that platform. I wonder if you could share organizationally, most companies, you know, it's not like it started with 1,000 developers five years ago. What's that migration of engineering talent, you know, how much was retraining, how much was bringing in people that could help you attain this vision? So, actually, when Lewis joined, he set up the Ninjas. So, what we did was about two and a half years ago, three years ago, we set up the Ninjas, which Lewis set up, and that team was, responsibility was to bring value to the business, not only innovate in isolation, but to have a direct, you innovate and have a direct value, you know, provide that value. So, not have disconnection between an innovation lab and what's really required by the business. So, we did that first, brought in the talent, it was a lot of learning curve, so we brought in functional programming, we introduced distributed technologies like Cassandra, Solar and Spark. We're a huge supporter of open source. At Macquarie Bank and BFS, in banking and financial services, we have lots of meetups. So, that way what happened is, we started supporting the community as such. We host a lot of these meetups, we encourage people to come and learn. We do the same in our organization. So, we started small and then started making sure that we could, you know, take that across the various other business units. Luis, I'm curious, from the banking industry in general, do you see a lot of your peers getting involved in the open source thing? I think back to, you know, 10 or 15 years ago, it was like, oh well, you know, IT was, you know, big banks spend a ton of money on IT, they have expertise they want to do, so sharing was a lot of times tough, even though usually there was behind the scenes as some peers talking, but what do you see happening in the banking industry with IT? So, what I think is a lot of things are happening right now and they are changing really, really fast. So, obviously, you know, 10 years ago, speaking about the open source, and especially with this, you know, all these mindsets were, you know, I'm not going to put in my system something that I haven't developed or something that is not from a, you know, well-known company that is going to be helping us, you know, just in something happened. But I think that, you know, the new culture that we have in the banking industry where you need to be faster and you need to be able to deliver, you know, faster services at a higher speed, you know, the only way that you can do that is by using open source and by sharing what you are doing with others. So, you know, we have a lot of meetups at Macquarie where we are sharing what we are doing with other banks and we are happy to be sharing what we are doing and we are happy just to be understanding what's happening in the market. So, what I think is if we want to be ahead of the pack, the only way is by, you know, having a completely different approach in the banking industry. We cannot maintain the all days approach and trying to be the number one in that space. So, your data strategy has to fit into this. I mean, both of you have digital in your title, that means both of you have essentially de facto data in your title. What is the relationship to, do you even, well, do you have a chief data officer or are you it by de facto? And what is your data strategy and how is that evolving? So, I think what's happening today in the world is, you know, it's important to understand that data analytics is moving from downstream to upstream. So, the technologies you have need to evolve as well. So, what we believe in is, you know, you need to have two forms of strategies. One is a cold, cold strategy. One's for your hot data strategy. So, you have a strategy where you have, you know, those solutions like Hadoop. And then you have solutions like Cassandra that sitting on the edge, closer to the customers, enabling you to have that always on architecture. Follow you, you know, if you have to support follow you anyway applications, you need to have data on the edge, persistent there, cache there, in a distributed manner. And it can provide the data at high speed. So, it's all about fast data, which is a combination of streaming data, which doesn't fit in memory anymore, having to access large amount of data that's in batch, running small batches on the edge, and combining them and providing the power that you need. So, you need hot and cold to come together to provide that power. And are you bringing analytics and transaction workloads together? And what role does application development play in terms of being able to speed that up? So, we use a unique way of doing this actually. What we've done is, firstly, we've got a set of, a small set of team that is focused on this, focused on bringing the data alive. So, we call it the smart data store. We're using distributed technologies like Cassandra. We use Spark and we use Solar. So, when you have a conversation, so if somebody's calling up a bank, they call a bank because they have a reason to call and ask a question. And for example, you spent your money in a fuel station somewhere, you've forgotten where in London, for example, you could say, how much did I spend in fuel in London? So, that's how a brain thinks. So, having that capability is important. So, we use full tech search. We use a lot of predictive analytics, machine learning to tag the transactions that we get, so we're doing a lot at the edge. That entire strategy is essentially called hybrid transactional analytical processing. I think Gartner calls that itched up and it's translating when it comes to Forester. So, that's the strategy we use in our data at the moment. Excellent, and so what's next for you guys on the horizon, once again, back to strategy? So, you've sort of laid out this vision of simplification and speed, working toward that. I think you said 50 applications that you might be ready. More of that, presumably, what's the next big hurdle? So, for us, so once we have the platform, we now have the basic building blocks that will allow us just to do the next jump into the future. So, for us, right now, what we are working is with all those data enrichment that Rajay has been speaking about. So, we have a really good knowledge of what's happening in the bank and what's happening in customer's life. The next step, and what is going to be a game changer again for the financial industry, we think is starting to understand the behavior of the customer. And speaking about the behavior of the customer means that, as a customer, so we deliver one platform and we deliver quite same capabilities to every single customer. But how the bank is going to behave with every single customer is going to be different. And the system needs to be able to learn from the customer behavior. One example is, so since a couple of years ago, we send push alerts every time that you are using your card. And what happened is, every single morning, when I buy my coffee, I receive the push alert that says, hey, you have spent $3.5 on your coffee. What I'm doing is just swapping my alert. But Rajay probably is doing something different. So, what the banks would be able to say, hey, Luis, you are not really interested in this push alert. So, the system should be saying, Luis, from now on, I'm going to remove this alert from your push alert system. And just in case something strange happens, like instead of 3.535 or two transactions in the same second, you are not going to receive that. So, the system should be able to learn from my own behavior and should be able to deliver a completely different experience to every single customer. Right now, we are building the system. We have the basic building blocks. We are not yet there, but probably we'll be in six, seven months there. And one of the things that we are going to deliver a completely transformational experience to the customer. Great. All right, gentlemen, we got to leave it there. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE and congratulations on the initiative. Really great stuff. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Thank you. All right, keep right there, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest. This is theCUBE, we're live from Red Hat Summit in Boston. Right back.