 Which one do you think should matter more? Your image or your music? And we're not talking about image like a pop in social media, a follower, a influencer, whatever you want to call it. We just mean the way you're truly perceived as an artist and how that impacts how people receive your message. There's a crazy conversation in this clip that talks about an artist's career being potentially killed, ended maybe, just because of his image, even though people loved him beforehand. But we want to get y'all's opinions and see if y'all can guess who we're talking about. Check this out. It's culturally, we got so many bad stigmas that just fuck us. You feel me? Like we can say whatever we want to say about people's albums and if we like them or not because music being good or bad is subjective. By the way, this is Vince Staples on the Joe Budden podcast. But we had the biggest rapper in the world say he loved his wife and the niggas called him Corny and took his career away from him. Something we talked about generational wealth. Who's the biggest rapper in the world? Oh Chance, when I was paying for it. Chance wasn't paying for it at the time? Yes, but... You know what happens when they pay for it. Don't let the same niggas that pay for him pay for Frank Ocean and pay for Drake. At a certain point in time. So he wasn't Drake, but I'm talking about up and coming. He was, yeah. So at a point in time, come on, let's talk about generational wealth. Niggas don't even want families no more. Dog, niggas do not want to hear how much you love your wife sprinkled over 19 tracks. I know, but you like R&B, though, right? Love it. What's the difference? That's a great point. What's the difference? What's the difference between R&B and talking about I Love Your Wife? I think he meant to mention. It's like R&B music is essentially a musical expression of love. What's the difference between that and a rap expression of love? My counterpoint is you don't want to hear anybody talk about they love their wife over 19 tracks, but you'll listen to somebody talk about they want to kill somebody over 19 tracks. That's fair. What's wrong with that redundancy, all right? I don't want to hear all R&B talking about I love my wife and my content was the issue with that album, by the way. No, I'm not saying them, but I... You can't love your wife that long. You can love your wife, but it's got to be fire. Think about what you just said. Give me one person that did it. They love their wife? In hip hop? Over 19 tracks. I have a long one out of the world. Hip hop been fucked up since the beginning, so you can't really put hip hop in that equation. All right. All right. Give us one person that did it. I would say I should know one person, one artist, one amazing super talented human being that has managed to traverse the rocky terrains of being a rapper in love, and that is Young Thug. Young Thug, dude. He had appeared where he was rapping about how much he loved. I can't remember her name. Was it Carly, maybe, or something with the J? It was before Mariah the Scientist, which you could argue doesn't matter now because life has took him to other places. But at that time, yeah, he was rapping all about how much he loved her, bro, and it worked out for him. I don't know if it's because we didn't believe him or it was interesting to see, but he did it. Well, Parks mentioned in his video, he said he doesn't think it was all subject matter, quality of music played, which I know there were a couple tracks that I didn't necessarily like. Maybe it was the very first track I didn't necessarily like, and it's hard to come back from when I don't like how a project starts. And that's somebody who I appreciate Chance to rap and stuff. A lot of people are saying, Chance was never going to be big or he never was big. A lot of these people just don't get, maybe he wasn't in their demographic. But Chance was huge in terms of who he was, positioning and what they specified in terms of upcoming. He was the biggest rapper in the world in terms of who was up next or who was trending at that time. Yeah, and at the time, he was definitely the biggest indie artist, which was interesting. You know, if we agree with him and believe him on that, the biggest indie artist. I don't know, man. One thing that I think doesn't get thought about enough in this debate, because I've heard this debate a couple of times before. From a couple of different platforms, I've had a debate with friends in real life. And that album came out with like, what was it like, 2017? Maybe something like that? 18? Probably like 19. This is what I think happened, right? I think Chance was starting to get bigger. He was starting to appeal to a bigger demographic of people. Actually, before I even get to that point, we have to also think about what the image was of Chance before he got to that point. I was about to say, because image is what this conversation is about. So it's like, before this album, you were a delinquent, high school kid who did drugs and smoked cigarettes. And we learned that your mom likes cocoa butter more than she likes lotion. That's all we know about you. You know what I'm saying? Ain't you from Chicago? We know that about you, right? And then you transition away from this seemingly imperfect character that you built for us to enjoy, to now almost being arguably this preachy, almost like father figure-esque. We don't do the same drugs no more. That's what I'm saying. It's like, who don't? You know what I'm saying? Your fans are like, wait, we're still? But that was two years ago. I didn't really move on to nothing else. You know what I'm saying? Like, unless you know about some shit, I don't know about. And so I think it's that point, right? You've propped up this character, and then now you've removed yourself from the character in certain ways, right? There's another angle of it where I was going to earlier is that sometimes you got to think about the life of the person on the other side of the music. Right? 2019 was pre-pandemics. I can't use pandemic as an excuse for nothing. But what I like to think happened is that Chance was getting bigger. Chance was starting to appeal to not only a broader demographic of people, but he was also starting to transition into spaces where younger audiences were paying attention to him. I will argue, and I'm sure there's some young people out there who disagree with me, but I will argue 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, maybe up until 25, 26. You don't really know too much about love, you know what I'm saying? Most people of that age have never been in like a serious committed relationship. Your 20s, that's his fan base at the time, that age, yeah. Yeah, it's like, and I'm not talking about like, oh, like I really love this person. They really love me. I'm talking about, no, like you dead ass are responsible for each other. You know what I'm saying? That's a, that's a, I mean, you married, man. You get it, bro. That's a completely different level of love, but like my life is in your hands, and your life is in my hands, you know what I'm saying? That's a commitment. They don't know about commitment. That's what it is. That thing that means I'm going to be there even though I don't want to be here today. This, that's a good point, because at that age, people are going through the, usually the more toxic parts of love and discovering what love is and everything they can relate to. Everything's extreme. You know, exactly. Everything's extreme. So now you're overreacting even though, and, you know, there's fighting and fussing, you're hurting, and you're relating to music that expresses in that way. Mm-hmm. All right? This is all Juice WRLD and X. Right. You know what I'm saying? You impressed or F that man, F that B. That's the type of music that a lot of people, you know, are relating to. Because we all been heartbroken. We all in experience love. Yeah. I remember having those moments myself, all right? But yeah. So the love, the love hits different. The love does hit different at a certain age. So now you outpaced the growth of your fan base, and that's the other phenomenon that some people try to say with Drake right now is like, he's not growing with his fan base, right? His growth has done it. Chance just shot through the moon, you know what I mean? Had one of those summers where he was like five, five, and next thing you know, came back to school and he was six, ten. Exactly. You know? It's like, hey, bro, that evolution. Or it's like watching the school bully come back is like a Jehovah Witness or something. It's like, I don't believe you. Exactly. I want to rock with your message, but I just cannot receive it from you. Can't receive it. And another artist who called Flag that year was J. Cole. Remember that's the same year when motherfuckers on J. Cole asked about that. I want to fold clothes for you song or something that had came out. I forgot about that. I didn't even really take that seriously. I couldn't even listen to it at all. 2019 was a bad year for niggas in love. I ain't allowed, you know what I'm saying? It was ostracized. Drake wasn't dropping nothing to reinforce it. You know what I'm saying? I don't think he dropped nothing that year. I might be wrong. See what happened when there was an attack on love? Old world bottomed out. Had no bullshit, yeah. No bullshit. It's just like, but that's what. Hold on, we had the first people in to be to God and put you in the house and stay quarantined. Now y'all going to be in love. Y'all want to come home? Well, we going to force you to be home. Ain't no bullshit. That's what I'm thinking about. Man, I was like, damn, man. Like, imagine I just like sneezed like my brain out right now and die. Like, nobody be here. You know what I'm saying? Like, make sure I'm okay. Like, that's not all right, man. I got to start looking for love. Hey, bro, you thought of the thing. That's the old portion of a damn, bro. Who will get my medicine? If I fall down the steps, who going to pick me up? It's just me. You know what I'm saying? And I got, I got high steps. You know what I'm saying? And, but that's what makes me think about the, the age and the life experiences of the audience that he was starting to tap into at the time. Because like I said, J Cole was catching that same flag. And if you really, if you were paying attention at that time at where the critique was coming from, it was mainly from outlets and platforms that lean towards younger audiences. Facts. Like you didn't hear like the, the adult contemporary radio station host saying that, you know what I'm saying? He would hear like the, like the young blogger, you know what I'm saying? That was posting about, like I said at the time, the Kodak Blacks and the little yachties, same things like that. Because they were voices of the youth. The youth have not yet had life experiences to where they could relate to that same type of message. To your point, it was a 19 year old that just got his, his, his heart broken by the little John that told him that she loved him. And he heartbroken. He's sad. He just got done listening to the juice world. All girls are the same. And then the Spotify radio next song is Chance the rapper talking about, I love my wife and I want to be with her. It's like, I ain't trying to hear all that. The fuck? Stacey broke my heart. Exactly. Stacey is a thought. I want to hear the fuck that thought music. Yeah. And I don't believe in love right now. Exactly. Like that shit is not a real concept for me right now. And it's like, you know, that's something I don't think it's talking about enough is sometimes you create like every artist is allowed the right to put a message in that music. But that does not mean that we as the audience have to accept it. It does not mean that I have to, it does not mean that I have to relate and or I have to speed up my life experiences to catch up to it. Like, no, I am going to naturally seek out the music, the vibration, the frequencies, the, the fields that more so encompass like what I'm going through and what I feel like I'm relating to. And if that ain't you, that ain't it. The average music fan to the average artist, they're just going to ignore it. Now someone at chances level, you know what I'm saying? Who has as much notoriety at the time, they're going to just talk shit about it. It's just the reality of being at that level, you know what I'm saying? Yo artist, there's a lot of distributors out there, but if you want a distributor that will take you seriously, not just look at you as a number, then Too Loss is a platform from you. I'm talking about helping you beyond just putting your music on all the DSPs. That's what y'all are supposed to do. Too Loss actually helps you with your money. I'm talking about whoever's a part of the song dealing out the splits easily or more importantly, helping giving you an advance so you can actually create what you need to, whether that's studio time, whether that's your music video, but helping you get money to help fund your career and most importantly, a lot of these distributors don't really help with the play listing and things like that, unless you are a signed artist, you have some kind of serious deal, but Too Loss has that ability as well. And some of our clients, when they switched over to Too Loss, they've given us shining reviews. So check out Too Loss at TooLoss.com and make sure you put in the code NoLabel. Again, that is NoLabel N-O-L-A-B-E-L and let them know that y'all came from us. It's completely free. Make sure y'all let them know where y'all came from. No label. Let's get back to the episode. You connect with me here as my friend, as somebody who reps what I rep. You walk the walk that I'm walking, but then all of a sudden your image, you shoot way up there and now I feel like you're that friend that changed and you think you're better than us. Exactly. That's, and I get it. I get it. I get it. Because again, I remember being in that space and all I wanted to do after a breakup was f'ing around. I had a whole chant, which I'm not going to repeat. I'll talk to that, talk to you about the after apology, you know what I mean? But I wanted to be mindless for a minute, you know what I mean? Not feel for a bit, you know what I mean? I feel that, man. That's all it was. It all, we all go through it. Well, you know, depending on how old you are, if you ain't got there yet, you will get there. Yeah, exactly. You go where you're talking. Oh, this is hell, this podcast work. If you ain't got there yet. If you think you're lonely now. Uh-oh. Wait until tonight. Wait until you're 23. But it all goes back to a very big ethos of this podcast, which is, in order for you to be a great creator, you have to think about the thoughts, feeling, emotion, and life experiences of the people you're creating for. And sometimes there's going to be a mismatch. And if you're small, like I said, you'll get ignored. And if you're big, they are going to talk about it and voice their grievances. And you have to deal with it. Because I look at it like, you know, I don't know if Vince has been facetious or not if he really feels like that's what killed Chance's career. I personally, I don't think it died. I think that it was like Pokemon GTA style KO. Like you're not out the game yet, but you fucked up and you're going to have to restart from a certain point. You know what I'm saying? You ain't dead, but you're starting over for sure. And I look at it like, what else could he have done? Like his only solution would have been, we could argue, come out and make a fuck that bitch song. But then he would have real life consequences to deal with. He got to go home to his wife. I'm sure his wife listens to his music. You know what I'm saying? And who wants to deal with that? And y'all should appreciate that congruence versus the lack of authenticity that these other people are out here with. Living a great life, great relationships, but knowing that y'all are in a toxic place and trying to, instead of trying to show y'all what better and giving y'all hope, they just feed in that space that you're in. And they're pandering for the pay. Sierra, that's the most recent example. And you put your names out there. That was the most recent example, but every time I heard her ask about that shit, we didn't know when they talked about that. He said, Sierra with a little vitriol in your voice. Sierra! Man, I love love, man. I'm like, you gonna deny your love? That's crazy, man. That's crazy. And it's crazy, man. And I don't know, man. I just, it's, yeah, great example. Like some artists would just pander to the emotion of their fans. And you know, sometimes you can feel it. The music doesn't feel as authentic. I've heard rappers be like, fuck these hoes. I'm like, you don't love, man. I don't see your gram, you know what I'm saying? I actually got a couple of real life examples of that. I've not personally been through recently, but there was some artists going through it. We're like, I have a client now. We have a client now who, her first song that took off was basically like a fuck these niggas. You know what I'm saying? She not in that space anymore. Not in that space anymore. She in love. She in like great, seemingly happy relationship from what I can see. And you know, her newfound lover is also a music artist. And they made a song together. And I remember telling her like, yo, I think y'all should really lean into like the happy couple content for this song. And she was like, yeah, but my audience is a lot of women who kind of like a, you know, like love gives them a bit of taste in their mouth. Do you think that that's going to negatively impact me? And I was like, I'm gonna be real with you. That's a very valid fear that you have. I'm not even allowed to you and tell you everything gonna be okay. Cause nah, you're right. That's something to think about. I was like, now you could flip it and you could now be the best of that shows and like, hey, like we can heal and move past this. And this is what that looks like and the ones in your audience that either want that or get that will receive it well. And that's what she did. And that's been the impact that she's been getting. Like it's been mostly people like, oh my God, you making me see that I can't find love. Be the hope. Yeah, exactly. That she can be the hope. I have another artist homie where similar situation to a bigger degree, the song that made him go viral was a, juice world, all girls on the same type of song, a very sad melancholy love song. But by the time the song started taking off, he was happy and in a relationship. And I remember talking to him and he was like, how do I introduce my girlfriend without it impacting my career? And at the time I didn't have the knowledge I have now to really give him a, like the answer I gave the current client, I probably should have gave him, but I didn't have the, I didn't have the expertise of the proper concepts to really like see that vision all the way through. And I just remember being like, I don't know. And he was like, man, I'ma just like, slowly introduce her in like increments and see how that works out. So like I'm gonna make her the lead in the music video, maybe make her a cover art or something. And then I don't think he's still eventually, like he's basically still rolling it out. You know what I'm saying? If you ask me, like, she ain't been- I roll out the girl. Yeah, she might hit the deluxe and that'd be when, you know, it'd be legit. It's like, if you know him personally, you see her a lot. You know what I'm saying? She's there. She's one of the fam. You're a music artist. You know what I'm saying? And, you know, we see this in so many different spaces. I'm sure we've all dated the bad bitch that, you know, 30% of her clientele at least is because of how she looks. And as a party's like, I don't want you doing that. Hold up. Are we dating her or are we paying? Dating, I said dating. But you said we're dating the baddie. And then you said 30% of her clientele. Yeah, like for her job. Like, let's say, let's say, let's say like- Like, who was her clientele? What's her job? That's what I'm saying, man. I mean, first off, man, with women, damn it don't matter. If she, if she working at McDonald's and she the bad cash register at McDonald's, you're going to think about getting the McDouble on your way home from work just because you know she's there. Ah, yeah, let me let you finish. Cause I just, maybe I, yeah, maybe that's why. Maybe that's why I go ahead. But it's like, all right, she does a profession. She does something where you know, like, okay, there may be 20, 30% of her clients at least that are coming through because of how she looks. You know what I'm saying? You as the significant other man, I like that, right? You may want that aspect of the business to stop. But then there's also a part of you that knows like, damn, if she doesn't do that, money's going to get lost. There's a part of her brain that knows that if I don't do that, money's going to get lost. And it's a very real reality that you have to confront if you're in that situation. I look at this is the exact same way. Like, you know, there are lots of rappers out there right now who are happy and in love and they're in front of reality. Like, if I introduce this information to my fan base, I'm going to lose money. I'm going to lose opportunities. There are, there are people that are going to now be disgusted by me. And now I have to make a very real decision of my love for you versus my career. And now I am not the person that is here to tell you which side to pick. I think there's a case that could be made for either side. You know what I'm saying? But it's a real thing to think about. That is a fact. The constant thing actually. Should you show that you have a boyfriend or girlfriend or like all that stuff. So again, but this is just how image plays into your audience. We spoke heavily on the relationship aspect of it. Maybe we'll speak more in a different episode or clip. But for now, we'll leave it there. Want to know what y'all think? Of course. Because this is yet another episode of No Label's Necessary Podcast. I'm Brandon Shawn. And I'm Cory. And we out. Peace.