 Hello and welcome to our latest episode of 575 Ounces. We have a full house today in the studio as Leslie with me. Joining us from Bombay, Arjun and from the jungles in the Amazon is Siddhanthani. So if you can't get his internet just know that he is really dodgy today in any case. We're talking about India-England, big game not just for India and England but also for our neighbours Pakistan. And Nasir Hussain, former captain of the English team has tweeted out in jest asking the Pakistanis who they are supporting. I have it on good record that they are supporting India. Arjun, how important is this game? Right, before I get into the importance of this game just purely because of where Siddhanth is and now of course his footage is gone. It's a good time to sing Commander, Commander and he's back as soon as I said that. Sorry, even a song. On the spot, on the fly. But look of course big game and you rightly said it. See Pakistan will desperately want India to beat England. No matter how much it may go against history or whatever the hell that rivalry is between India and Pakistan which we spoke about in one of the last episodes. Because if England loses then Pakistan still has a chance to move into the top 4. If England wins then there is a big likelihood that England is making it to the top 4 because I think they have 8 points. And then their last game is against New Zealand. So for India I don't think any such problem because India still has 3 games keeping the England game in mind. And they are already on 10 points. So I think they need just one more point to seal qualification. Or they are on 11 points. Australia sealed qualification with 12. So one point will come to India of those 3 games I am pretty sure it will come just given the way the team has been going. So our semi-final spot is pretty much done. So all the more this competition but I think from an Indian point of view you shouldn't really look at whether we are making it to the semi-finals or not. I just think that now that we have gone undefeated towards the end of the league phase. Now if you face a loss so close to the knockouts it could be detrimental to how we play in the semi-finals. I think that could be a major thing because momentum in a tournament like this. Anyone who goes and wins a World Cup momentum is a key thing. So if you lose a game now and that also if you lose to an England. Because I am pretty sure India is going to come in with their strongest team. As we saw in the match between Pakistan vs New Zealand everything was spinning. Shadab Khan was spinning the ball like mad. Hafeez was getting a lot of spin. So clearly of course Kuldeep Yadav and Chahal will be lulchowing. But I don't know how much of that pitch will be used. I just want to ask Siddharth, did this happen in 1992 as well? That's the job. I thought we were going to talk about Virat Kohli. I am a little unprepared today. No brother, what happened in 1992? After 7 matches the semi-final of Pakistan came. And then the final came. So the semi-final and final of Pakistan is their 8th and 9th matches. Actually Arjun you brought up a great point which is one of Leslie's pet subjects which is peaking at the right time. You mentioned the momentum part. I agree. But it is a long tournament like 9 matches, 9 preliminary matches. So India has peaked as far as we are concerned. They are doing well. The Afghan match I thought might mobile the team but they are bounce back really well. They were lucky that they played West Indies yesterday in consistent team as they are. So they could get things back. And now England match I guess they would be coming full on. I am just going to give a little bit of a brief like newsy thing for all you guys to chew and then we can discuss this also. Is that two players from the English team have come out Johnny Baisto and Joe Root. And they have both come out and they have both said that you know the pitches we are playing on in this World Cup are not conducive to our game. These are not the kind of pitches we have climbed to the number one ranking of playing on. So this is like not really our scene. Which is also not true. Exactly. So the ICC has come back and said that we do not prepare pitches. We ground men for you. Second thing, this is the wettest summer that they have had in England for really long. So ground men haven't had the time to let the pitches settle in the way that you would want to. And also this is incorrect from these two boys. I just want to point this out because the three games they have lost. The only low scoring encounter was actually the game against Sri Lanka. Pakistan scored a lot of runs against them. Australia against they sent Australia into bat in bowling conditions but their bowlers did a bad job. So out of that now we get to Edge Bastion where you are saying it's going to be a raging turner. But yeah that depends on which pitch they use right. That's the whole thing. I don't understand the whole thing. I mean if there is one team that can really cry and say that we are not getting the conditions, that is Sri Lanka. Because Sri Lanka had green tops before. And they have of course come out into the press and they have said that look this is and they have even boycotted a media briefing. Because they are saying that look we are not getting pitches. Like there is no balance. Generally in an ICC World Cup what happens is that you get a green top or a turner. That's the balance. The balance is created. So Sri Lanka in their first three games got lots of green tops. Thus they lost the games. And then they came and did the job on England of course. And it was a lot of fun watching that match. That was the by far the match that livened this World Cup up. Seriously that match saved it. No, our commander comes into this discussion because he is a big part of the England bashing camp. Oh yes. When will this Rondu story go? I mean Johnny Besto, Joe Roode, these are big players. I just also think that our commander was frozen. Please. Our commander was frozen. So Siddharth, you think you are the ugliest of the four? No, the thing is that see I don't know why England players are getting into it because it would create a negative atmosphere within the ranks themselves because it shows that it gives Indians that kind of a mental age as well because they will say that they have started crying. Within the team they are not that confident that they would be able to play well and they are not confident about playing at home. Imagine that. I also find it ridiculous that England are complaining about playing in English conditions. Like I mean it's just shocking me. We know that they are a team that bats really deep but they also have a lot of all-rounders. I read a very nice tweet the other day when England of course lost. Oh sorry, when India beat West Indies right now and they said the more India goes on and wins this World Cup the more it proves that England's approach to ODI cricket is flawed because there is only one way of approaching. Slam bang. So that means if the plan doesn't work then the first five players of your team will fail. So the other four players will try to execute the plan A. So in a sense if you are only coming with one plan in a game me as opposition, it's easier for me to bowl you out. It's easier for me to plan against you. So I think that is a big problem because I think before the World Cup we were talking 500, 400, I don't know what. India has come and shown that the conventional way of approaching a 50 over format which is to start slow of course when you pick up rhythm you pick up rhythm and then to really pick it up towards the end keep wickets in hand that is the way to go forward not keep from ball one you keep going after the bowlers and if you're losing early wickets you still keep on going after the bowlers 50 overs the beauty of 50 overs is that there are so many phases in this game that sometimes you have to hold back sometimes you have to attack and that's why I think it's so much different from 2020 the approach has to be just one single way. Actually the one English batsman, well Joe Root has done very well but I must say the one English batsman who is really I mean I didn't expect him to be this sort of player is Ben Stokes. You know even in these games that they have lost he has stuck on, he has paced his innings, he's you know he's done the job even if he's failed right at the end moment although the ball he got out to against Mitchell Stark. That was the ball of the tournament. We are totally his best friend. What a ball that was but Commando, Commando and he's back. Oh yes. When will he get used to crying in England? Never. Feel free to What do you say, since his empire has gone he has gotten more used to it. He keeps on crying in football all the time. I think when Arsenal's invincible season was going on he kept on crying. He was probably getting ready for pitch I don't know. There were a lot of Frenchmen in that team. That's why. Not enough fish and chips. I mean I also find it a little bit strange for players to come out before a big game and make comments like this to the press or the public or whatever it is I mean irrespective of what sort of pitch you're given or what conditions you're playing in when you are one of the top ranked sides in the world and you're playing at home at the end of the day with the kind of support that affords you also with the sort of kind of player one day players these guys have I mean making excuses what is what sounds like rationalizing a defeat or justifying a defeat even before the game has started seems a bit like a defeatist attitude but who knows man maybe they're trying to play mind games they're trying to send the message that to the enemy camp that they've already given up I think I was saying the same thing Before you disappeared to climb that tree behind us and you had gone for about 5-7 minutes we were discussing how what was I saying how basically England's approach to ODI cricket how this world cup is kind of proving that it might be flawed because if you come with only one single approach and irrespective of what sport you're playing as an opposition it's easier for me to plan against you I also want to just say that we are like we are the king of jinx because we did the first episode whether we're going to make 500 or not now it's getting difficult to make 250 we talked in the second episode how good is England's bowling that has been disproved in the third episode we talked about how bad is Pakistan's team that too is over in the fourth episode we talked about they showed it to me so we are doing a great job and now in the fifth episode we are discussing how England's ODI playing game is flawed we should reverse the talk but talking about scores I got to say some total of 200 people have watched these four episodes that we've done so far but I'm very happy to stand by what we have said in each of them irrespective of what happened in one match no no of course hindsight is a great weapon and talking about scores it's so much interesting now that 250 scores and all that it's like good old days and like Arjun mentioned the change of strategies how batsmen pace themselves and all that it's beautiful to watch now and you just don't give up on an ODI match anymore because 222 and it's game on now and that's the beauty of this World Cup I'm going to just condense this a little bit let's talk about India also a little bit so I don't know dealing with the problem of surplus is not something that I'm used to as an Indian cricket follower especially fast bowlers now Bhubhi injured and Shammi came and took a hat trick yesterday also spoke well it was a little problematic see when I was talking before the World Cup the thing was if your two front line bowlers would be Mohammed Shammi and Jaspreet Bumrah then there was some about turn because they thought swing on offer so if swing on offer then Mr Bhubneshwar Kumar is par excellence above these two guys because the amount he can extract no one else can extract then there was an injury hamstring a little bit bad luck to him of course but there was also a swing on offer to be fair in this World Cup only trend bowlers extracted a little bit of swing and this I'm talking about the world's best bowler when it comes to extracting swing right swing on offer is not that much Mitchell Stark has shown you that's the beauty he got for Ben Stokes but I think also the stock is bowling at a higher pace so it's a completely different we're talking about someone else talk about Shammi, in two matches he got 8 wickets and he's only given away 50 odd runs in both the games 4 for 16 vs West Indies his best ODI figures I'm surprised no one gave him a man of the match in two competitions he didn't get a man of the match I can understand Afghanistan that you got 3 wickets in the last over that's what you got but against West Indies 4 for 16 and you've given the man of the match to Virat Kohli I think going back to the conversation we had in the first episode about the battle between bat and ball until the people running cricket understand or want to have this battle become a realistic thing it is not going to become a thing I had thought just like in T20 cricket instead of a 5-4 or a thing to me like a 4 wicket all for 16 runs in a one day match is outstanding it's outstanding absolutely but batsmen have to give everything that's what comes to mind if we talk to the former players they're saying that you have to continue with Shammi and Bumrah there is no chance you can let Bhubaneswar come in even if he's fully fit it's not that momentum you can't keep him out I think the big talking point for India is and I had said this in episode 1 that the debate of number 4 is not going to happen and it is back in how so Vijay Shankar 3 I'll just put it there for you guys he's played 3 back to back games in the first game he came out at number 6 and he was not out there but for whatever it was worth he could barely strike the ball at that time I think he was less than a runner ball I also say that in that same game and it was Pakistan also and no in that same game he may not have done well with the bat but he proved his worth with the first ball he bowled replacing agreed but in the next 2 matches and I think there are 20 or so he's not done very well he didn't get to play again so that is the real talking point I'm not even talking about Rishabh Panth I'm saying why not have someone like a Dinesh Karthik exactly I think Koli should take a punt and because the ballers are doing so great you can afford a batsman especially this batsman there my only thing is but my only concern with Dinesh Karthik is that he is very good at the domestic circuit he is brilliant at the IPL he is great in warm up games and then Dinesh Karthik is slightly dodgy the reason I would put Rishabh Panth is because what happens is right now because we have lost Shikhar Dhawan we don't have a left hander in the top 5-6 batsman so it's nice to just get a left hander also in the top 5-6 but not against England I don't think Panth should be putting whatever I'm talking to the former cricketers they are saying they drop some names also they drop names whatever they are talking they are saying at that position in a 2020 game the way he plays he came in a 50 over format and how much have you seen him in a 50 over format have you tried this in the world cup no no student and to be fair you follow a selection procedure so in a selection procedure you have not been selected for the world cup a certain Dinesh Karthik has been chosen before you for some reason Rishabh Panth now or Shankar Rishabh Panth it's all part of the same equation no the guy who was not selected Rishabh Panth he came in because of Shankar's injury yeah so if you want to bring someone on number 4 then the first preference has to go to Dinesh Karthik yeah if you want to change exactly I think against England you should get the batting a little deeper because and remove the jittery part of it because Vijay Shankar has been jittery he is unable to time it properly he is a talented batsman yeah I feel like to some extent while we have to play Shami because of the momentum he has got going the risk that you always run with fast bowlers is them picking up injuries especially Indian fast bowlers but he is super fit right now fair fair fair so inshallah it will all be good but maybe they will decide not to let him bowl out his full 10 overs match situation whatever however they manage his time and his fitness but the risk at this point of playing Shankar and continuing to play Shankar and give him some more time in the middle I think is minimal like you guys said we only need one more point to get through to the semi finals the team is pretty high on confidence overall the batting order is performing adequately the bowling is killing it I don't see what the stress is and why we would need to change things up at this stage let's say Karthik comes in and in a sort of we are saying big game but the fact is that it's not really such a meaningful game for us, for India conspiracy theory the thing you said but if you have like six average or jittery performances and then knock out at time you have to continue with him because you can't put DK into the semi-final match that's a tricky call I think what they will do they will not change their combination for the England game in hope that you can beat England see the qualification and look at the other two games there are two games you experiment with you rest if they beat England top 13 to choose from if they beat England in Birmingham what I can guarantee is kebabs are on the house sir I are you talking about Birmingham or Delhi? I am talking about Birmingham sir it's a dirty place what are you talking about our boys are there it is so gloomy I mean I haven't had any fun when I was there it's not a brief act it's just a life the thing is our support will be more definitely we will take over it may not be is there ever an India game in England where England have more support I don't think so yeah all the cash money is with us only so we buy all the tickets I mean so I think we are all in agreement that Vijay Shankar is playing the next game 100% I think he is playing the next game he is for a reasonable now that we have said it he will probably get out either on a first ball duck or he will score 150 there is no way no two ways about it just finally going to the fact that 1.5 weeks ago we were talking that this is a big dull world cup now this world cup has a solid masala the mix is more than that and not just because of the small scoring games and we are calling 250-230 small scoring games but the battle with the ball is a lot more Sri Lanka is still in the context one reason is like I would say is because it was getting fairly predictable the big three plus New Zealand were cruising and now suddenly Sri Lanka and Pakistan have said listen we have contenters for the slots so now the next point is whether Safras will already start his time ministerial build for 2046 because if going by 92 because this is what happened in 92 I know 46 yes it will take that long till 46 sir we will not stay cricket no we will stay cricket I can't say I think his peak has come his peak has come when you say that this is happening his peak has come and I don't think they will make the top four truth be fair I think India and honestly from a tournament point of view it should be India, New Zealand, Australia, England all I can say is it will be great if Pakistan can make the top four because that will mean that India and Pakistan play a semi-final and what we will do for all you viewers especially is we will just put that old episode again is Bangladesh out of the running by the way no no Bangladesh is also in the race but slightly so like I still want Bangladesh to be in it yeah even I predicted I have been fighting with people just to show that cricket world is evolving a little bit are you also gently hinting where you are say again are you gently hinting and telling us where you are no I am not I am not in Bangladesh for sure by the way with Bangladesh now just imagine I am wearing a jacket what are you talking about if India does lose to England then the next match is versus Bangladesh and if there is one side who how do I say that they may not be very good at verbal deals but they don't shy away from it I don't think they are very good at it Shaqib Lassan has already started by saying we can easily beat India we are on par now and we can do that Nagin Bullshit that they do and then they have broken glasses and dressing rooms and whatever whatever and they are a senti lot they are a senti lot because you ask any of them they feel they have got what they do what they have been doing till 20 years in they feel like they are being treated as minors yes and they have an India like situation that is the only sport where everyone it is a be all and all and you know love all or jobi and changing recognition is huge so that will be a big game so actually I think now we are now we are just dragging this episode on any last words from any of you guys I have I have 3 words I think the England game will be a good one I think it will be fun whatever it is it will be a great match super nothing to add looking forward to beating England solidly so that gives Pakistan that window of opportunity so if Pakistan remains in the final 4 then nothing like that for the tournament I had an invite to the I think the Deputy High Commissioner's house to watch the second part of the game it would have been fun but then I realized they are not serving any proper English beer so I left down sir you are dropping the name you are doing it I didn't say the name I said the designation when we feed them then it would be fun British diplomatic to rub it in the face ok sir I think we can wrap up this episode all I am going to add is 3 more words anyone but England