 Hey everybody, tonight we're debating the war in Ukraine, and we are starting right now with infrared and Jackson's opening statement. Thanks so much gentlemen for being with us. The floor is all yours. Okay, so when it comes to the formation of this is the first context I want to establish when it comes to the formation of military alliances. This actually extends beyond the bounds of the sovereignty within a state on territory. Countries have an obligation to be cognizant of the geopolitical geographic and historical and civilizational realities that their own sovereignty is situated within. And this is specifically recognized by organizations organizations like the OSCE, according to which Ukraine being a member one country according to its founding document at least one country security cannot be strengthened at the expense of the security of another state. So what the OSCE establishes is that it's not just that states are just completely totally free to just do whatever they want in terms of making security alliances. And in terms of how they construct their militaries and position themselves geopolitically. There's a very delicate balance of power and security within Europe, and everyone who's committed to actually preserving long term peace, which is what the OSCE is actually about has to be recognized the fact that it needs to be a balance of security needs to be a security architecture that ensures that there is a fair distribution of security across the continent. When this balance is tipped in one direction or the other. It creates a situation of instability and geopolitical uncertainty and leads to the conditions that ultimately could lead to war and to conflict. So one has to keep this in mind. When one is bringing up the issue of the sovereignty of states states should have a right to self determination and states should have the right to be sovereign, but they should also be cognizant of the geopolitical and geographic realities within which they reside. So as to not create circumstances that upset the balance of security and the security architecture. So, I'll give it to Jackson now. Yeah, so the next point that I think is really important is to actually and I would like to hear Dylan and destiny respond to this when they talk is to address when did this conflict began or if you know war when did this war began the war began and they refused to call it a war Ukraine the Ukrainian government refused to call it a war for eight years because they wanted to have IMF loans and you can't give IMF loans to a country that's at war, but the war began. The 2014 coup that took place on the heels of the Maidan protests which began in all honesty, without us backing I mean there was a plurality of people within Ukraine that were frustrated over the fact that, you know, there was not going to be EU membership in Ukraine, and I guess there was going to be a delay in the decision. And those protests began and then eventually they decided that they were not going to take the unfair, you know, deal that the EU offered them. They knew that these neoliberal policies that would be inflicted upon them upon the EU deal would have hurt them much more than opening up trade partnerships more with Russia would have helped them. So, upon these protests, the US, you know, began to infiltrate the movement. US politicians began, you know, working with agencies on the ground US front agencies on the ground like the National Endowment for democracy. And Victoria Newland even boasted about the fact that, you know, they funneled five, I think it was $5 billion. We'll discuss the details of the US involvement in the coup later on in the debate, I'm sure. But lots of money came into these US agencies on the ground to actually hijack the Maidan protests upon hijacking the Maidan protests. The violence broke out. This was dissimilar to the 2004 color revolution that the US also played a part in surrounding the 2004 elections which Yanukovych was also involved in. Initially reported that he won, though international Western aligned agencies claimed that these elections were marred with with corruption and discrepancies and regularities in the vote. The election was overturned then and you know, Yanukovych didn't see the presidency until his second run, but after being elected, you know, during these Maidan protests, US became involved. They let a coup upon the democratically elected government of Yanukovych. And after that, you know, coup on the democratically elected government of Yanukovych. We saw the eight year war begin. And that's the next point I want to make. It's insane to assume that this war began, you know, within the past two weeks. Everyone knows that there was shelling there was fighting in the Donbas region. The question is when did that began it began directly after the coup. Thanks to the Western aligned leader that was put into power. Now these Western aligned leaders that were put into power, have deep ties to the, you know, nationalist far right, you know, factions radical factions within both the Ukrainian military and the Ukrainian political apparatus. There's over 80 far right, you know, military militias and battalions within Ukraine. Some of the most notable include of course the ease of battalion which is one of the primary forces that has been putting asymmetrical warfare upon the people of the Netskin lahance, who they themselves took votes to recognize their independence, which was not, which was not, you know, granted by Russia or Ukraine or Western states for many years, though, Vladimir Putin did come out and say that he respected the legality or the legality the outcome of the elections, but he didn't actually recognize them as independent states at the time, up until you know, just this month. So, all in all, this conflict didn't begin this week, it began during the made on coup asymmetrical warfare was waged against the people of the Netskin lahance and the past three years of the conflict which is all I have been able to find data for maybe another destiny can provide more evidence but according to the United Nations, 81.4% of the civilian casualties in the Donbass war came on the side of the Donbass civilians dying there. And at the end of the day, Russia, you know, was very, very restrained. They tried to engage in peace deals surrounding the Minsk accord and bring peace to the region like it or not think it's fair or not he did do that for eight years. And in that entire time, everything I just mentioned was taking place and these Western aligned leaders that controlled the government for different stretches of time over these over this over this period have made a continued effort to try and join NATO which Vladimir Putin has continuously said and I agree would be a direct threat to their security. You got it. Thank you very much for those openings infrared and Jackson Hinkle want to let you know folks if it's your first time here at modern day debate, we are a neutral platform hosting debates on science, religion and politics. And second before I kick it over to destiny and Dylan for their opening. If you haven't have a question, feel free to fire it into the old live chat 100% of super chats tonight are going to worldwide orphans and you can also tag me with at modern day debate in the live chat to submit a question as well. Thank you so much, Destiny and Dylan for being with us. The floor is all yours for your openings as well. So Putin has been saying, it's been quoted as saying said multiple times that the greatest geopolitical catastrophe in the last century has been the collapse of the Soviet Union. I think if we look at the actions of Putin, not just in Ukraine, but in other countries and other states within Russia around the world, I think we can see that Putin's goal is to rebuild some sort of new body that resembles the Soviet Union, whether that's going to be the Union State that includes Belarus Russia and perhaps some future Ukraine or not remains to be seen based on how well the Ukrainians can resist Russian aggression, but it seems pretty clear that Putin has a huge drive to rebuild what he sees as one of the, as I respond memory of the Soviet Union. The idea that in terms of individual claims I guess we'll start going through the history but I mean almost everything you said is half wrong or just completely wrong. The idea that Europe was offering them an unfair deal one of the biggest reasons why they require that EU deal was because Russia themselves began to put blockades on certain imports for Ukraine just because they thought the president was looking towards the European Union for a deal. The Russian deal was better when the European deal would have just allowed them access to the markets while the Russian deal was literally a an exclusive deal that would have forbade them from trading into other markets is hilariously stupid. The idea that this conflict began in 2014 is also just completely wrong there have been foreign policy experts I can find papers back since 2010 claiming that Crimea was under threat of invasion from Russia and it was invaded. Russia has been consistently working with disinformation campaigns among actual military aid to places like Donbass or Crimea, since at least 2010 if not earlier, has been a long and a rich history of corruption in Ukraine whether we're talking about people that used to actually be in the Soviet Party that became leaders of Ukraine or we're talking about people that more or less wanted to be Putin's Stooges later on like like Yanukovych. I guess we'll get into the individual history of any of these particular things but yeah that's the idea right now today that Russia is somehow justified in their aggression and they're taking over any of the Ukrainian territory, whether that's when they took over Crimea in 2014, whether that's the eastern territories that they're trying to take over now or the rest of Ukraine that we're trying to take over I think it's just absolutely absurd. I would echo something that Haas said in the very beginning of the debate that one country security cannot be increased at the expense of another that's a hilarious statement coming from somebody trying to defend the neo imperialism of the want to be Soviet Union. And I'm curious how you guys will defend this in conversation coming forward. So I guess the best thing to do would be start with, I guess I'll start in 2004, since I know more about like recent Ukrainian history. So the Orange Revolution, which I respect the Ukrainian people for taking power into their own hands to stop an election that was stolen, as was confirmed by the Ukrainian court system in 2004. And we call it a coup or was a coup of Viktor Kronikovich, what was failed to mention is that after the Ukrainian courts decided that there was large scale fraud committed on behalf to Viktor Kronikovich in 2004, is that there was a revote. And after the revote was done, once international monitors were now involved in the situation. That's when Viktor Yanukovych lost to 2004 election. And so the Orange Revolution that is usually cited here as a coup. What is not mentioned is just like in the 2014 coup. There is an election after both of these instances in 2004 there was a revote. In 2014, after Viktor Yanukovych was impeached, he then fled the country and there was another Democratic election, where somebody was democratically elected there was also another election in 2019, where Zelensky won with about 73% of the vote. I respect the Ukrainian people and taking the power in their own hands to take back to democracy in both instances. I would also like to talk about, we're talking about I know both of these people care about sovereignty a lot here. In both instances, both in 2004 and 2014 and before it, the Russian state has meddled in the affairs of Ukraine on multiple occasions, fermenting corruption, directly getting involved in elections, and directly get involved with Ukrainian politicians and basically sponsoring them on behalf of the state. It's gotten involved in the affairs of Ukraine and it's not that surprising that you're going to see protests against politicians like Viktor Yanukovych, and you're going to see the Orange Revolution in 2004, when a foreign state medals in the internal fails of another state. It's strange for me to hear all this concern about America interfering in the internal affairs of the Ukrainian government in 2014, when there was so much of it going on ever since Ukraine voted with over 90% of the vote to separate from Russia in the early 1990s. I would also like to cite, since it hasn't been brought up by anyone, that Russia guaranteed in 1994 in the Budapest memorandum to not invade Ukraine after it gave up its nuclear weapons into respect the nation's territorial integrity. I would also say the spirit of that was also violated when they meddled in the internal affairs of Ukraine in both 2004 2014 and many other instances. Besides that I heard a lot about concerned about the far right, but I heard no concern about for example the Russian National Unity Movement, which is a Russian Neo Nazi political and militia group that is active under the arm of the Donetsk People's Republic. They are a neo Nazi militia that has been fighting on behalf of the Donetsk People's Republic for a very long period of time now. And so for me, this claim of denazification or this at all having to do with denazification is ridiculous to me. Not only are Nazis fighting on behalf of Russian backed rebels, but there's also instances of for example, Belarus, the leader of Belarus which has evolved into conflict, praising Adolf Hitler, saying Germany reached its peak under Adolf Hitler and not only that, but also we can talk about the In Chechnya, they have put homosexuals in concentration camps. Now I don't want to talk about the deep history of the gays and Nazi Germany, but if there's anything that is Nazi ask I would say putting homosexuals in concentration camp would solidly fall under that category. This doesn't even have to do with polling data when we talk about anti Semitism between the two countries, or the fact that the Oz off battalions political party which is something that cited on multiple occasions has not won a single seat in Ukraine's parliament. And at the right sector as well the right sector has not run a single seat in your canes parliament either. Now maybe if you add into three finger party you can get one seat out of 450. But this idea of the Ukrainian Nazi state that's being taken on by the Russians is ridiculous when the Russian government and the republics that Vladimir Putin has recognized is fighting with neo Nazis. And it's simple that the Slavs of Europe obviously have a bad memory with neo Nazis, and it's really easy to convince your population that the enemy is bad if you call them all Nazis, if in this debate I said, you know my two opponents here are neo Nazis, it would justify me being extremely terrible towards them, because nobody likes Nazis, as long as you're a normal person. We can probably get into specifics of us involvement in 2014. And the like labeling of us to we can get more into the Budapest memorandum of hoping to get more into that. But I'll just end my statement there for now. I'd also like to add on a men's to Dylan statement that I would like to congratulate the neo Nazi country of Ukraine for being the first country outside of Israel to have its two highest level political positions held by Jewish people, which is an amazing achievement for us. Because the Nazis, the Nazis opening statements. Oh, you. Oh my good opening statement. Gentlemen, gentlemen, they do. There are still five minutes left for. Thank you. Well, if we're going to play. Yeah, now we got. I do want to say. It isn't that surprising that these people couldn't respect the rules of rules of debate when the Russians are not respecting the rules of war in multiple cities across Ukraine. Sorry. Almost as though they were trying to. Opening statement by violating the security of ours. I hate to. All right. So I'm going to use the mute button liberally tonight just because I really seriously want this to be a fruitful conversation. So I agree. Any last words from Destiny and Dylan in terms of that opening. Last word just for context before we get into debating the ethics of the as of battalion. This is a fighting force of maybe 2,500 people of whom 10 to 20% are supposedly neo Nazis at a Ukrainian army that has over 200,000 active military personnel. The idea that Ukraine is some hotbed of neo Nazi activity is just hilarious, having both the prime minister and a president that are Jewish like it's it's one of the biggest driving forces that Putin uses to try to push his population against Ukraine. It's absolutely pure propaganda. All right, I think we're are we good here Dylan. I've got a few more minutes. Anything else you want to. I mean, I could just list off like Russian war crimes in Ukraine. Since they talked about that. The targeting of civilians in Kyrgyzstan, the targeting of enemies laughing demented, as usual, targeting of civilians all across Ukraine. And to address me, you're full of shit. My goodness. He's laughing. I can comment on that. There is there are about three minutes and 15 seconds left for destiny to tell him to stay on topic. I can. It's a debate. It's what do you mean? Don't make comments directed at you. Do you want to just walk stage follow? Do you think do you think it would be because of the war crime when you shanko? Didn't that guy say that he was really crazy? He had like agent orange poisoning or whatever. There was kind of a random thing when he was running against you shanko. This kind of story. I'm sorry. When he's running against Yanukovych, that was kind of a little strange. I mean, but am I randomly amongst the little strange? All the journalists look at that. Look at that. Just can't stop. See again, more evidence that a pro Russian individuals in this conflict just can't follow rules of engagement. Anyway, a civilian critical severe civilian infrastructure has been targeted in Maripole. Civilians have been bombed in Kurosan again and again and again. Kindergarten's have been targeted NGOs like Amnesty International right now in violation of the Geneva Convention. I believe that the largest nuclear reactor in the world has been hit multiple times. It was currently on fire. That's happening right now. Actually true. We don't have reports yet. I think I saw an RT article saying Ukrainians themselves were shooting handguns at it in order to foment like false. Did we check to see if there was a swastika on the side of the nuclear reactor? It could be a Nazi nuclear. There was a picture of a swastika that was released by Russian state media. It later came out that I was part of the war. That was the end of our opening statement. Rest our case. All right. Want to let you know folks, as mentioned, if it's your first time here in the state debate is a neutral channel, don't forget to hit that subscribe button as we have many more debates coming up. And want to let you know our guests are linked in the description. If you'd like to hear more, last but not least, gentlemen, really during this open conversation, I really do need you to work with me. It really does have to be that you're not speaking over each other because that, of course, forts our own purpose of having the debate if people can't hear people because they're speaking over each other. So we're going to go into open conversation. The floor is all yours. Well, what do we want to start, gentlemen? I'll start since you guys just went by responding to, I mean, there's a whole lot to pick through there, but Dylan did make the inflammatory claim that that Yana Kovic was impeached. And despite the fact that Dylan claims to be an expert on the matter, yada, yada, yada foreign policy expert, he seems to have lost out the fact that Yana Kovic was actually not impeached per the constitutional requirements in Ukraine. In fact, I would like to finish this. This will let me finish because you happen to not know what you're talking about. So he needed there needed to be three force of the parliament to guarantee an impeachment and they did not reach that. They did not get those three quarter votes in order to impeach Yana Kovic and the supreme courts and the constitutional courts were not involved. They did not recognize this as an impeachment. I believe it was the following day or maybe two days after Yana Kovic decided that his life was under threat and he was going to flee to the second largest city in Ukraine. He did. He fled by helicopter and there was actually reports. The reason why he fled by helicopters because there was reports that there was going to be a, you know, active violence upon him committed by these far right wing forces that were trying to lead this coup. And in fact upon his, you know, his, his, the series of cars that were supposed to be carrying him off to Karkov when he was leaving, when in fact he was in a helicopter, they were fired upon by snipers. So he was not, he was not impeached. There was no constitutional requirement. They didn't get enough votes. So I don't know why you said that. Well, number one, it is a debate that is ongoing in Ukraine, whether he was legally or not legally impeached. Okay. You could continue to. Okay. He's going to laugh. So why'd you say that he was? You didn't let me, you didn't let me, you didn't let me finish. Okay. It's an ongoing constitutional debate on whether he was legally or non legally impeached. Obviously debate. Hold on. What's the debate? James James for Dylan respond. Okay. Okay. It is a ongoing legal debate within Ukraine. And I honestly, I am going to appeal to the legal scholars in Ukraine, which said that he was constitutionally impeached. I'm going to appeal to them because I'm not a legal expert. And I know Jackson Hinkle, you're not a legal expert as well. But I do want to bring up here for a second that this is probably the first time I've ever seen Jackson in favor of a of a regime change war. And can we also let me appeal to the scientists. Give you 30 seconds. And then we've got to kick it over. If you want to talk about science for a second, can we talk about the claim you made that the Ukrainian government was working with the American government to make bio weapons that would target Russian DNA? There have been reports that the bio labs that are operating within Ukraine that the Ukrainian government is allegedly solely operating. We're indeed collect. This is an allegation by the Russian embassy. And I'm going to appeal to any evidence. Well, I'm going to appeal to the experts at the Russian embassy. So you have. Okay. So yeah, just like I'm going to appeal to the scholars on military threats, the military apparatus of the Russian foreign ministry. I'm going to appeal to the scholars of the Russian military who I trust them. I'm not an expert in the intel that all they have. Which scientists has backed that up? Any scientists? Those are Russian military foreign relations experts. And they know what's going on. They have the Intel. It's the GRU. Which ones? Which ones? Okay. Which legal scholars in particular? So which legal scholars are arguing that the impeachment was legal then? So you're fine with me. So it's a problem for me to appeal to legal scholars, but it's not. It's a problem for you to do that. I'm just applying the same standard you're applying to me. But you were laughing when I was doing that as if it was the same thing you do, but you're doing the same. So it's okay. I'm applying the same standard. All I can say is that I don't believe that the Russian foreign issue would be lying about this. So you do believe, okay, how would that be done? Exactly. How would you target Russian DNA with biochemical weapons? How would that work? Definitely considering. Wait, you don't know that there's biological weapons. Let me finish. Hold on. Hold on. Let me finish. Hold on. Hold on. Gentlemen. Hold on. Gentlemen. You don't know that. Let me finish. Seriously. Just to be fair to infrared. You did ask him a question. I want to give him a chance to answer that last question, Dylan. Let's get back to you. All right. Yeah. Finally, you don't know that that's the thing that there's biological weapons that are being developed that target the specific DNA of specific peoples that the U.S. was accusing China of developing this and vice versa for China. You don't know about that whole thing. My problem is it's very difficult for Putin on one hand to talk about the United like the history of both Ukraine in Russia and to have the amount of like relations between Ukraine and what? Yeah. We know they shared DNA. Yes. So how are you going to make biochemical weapons that target Russians? But there's no evidence for this. Well, can we actually, can we just ask a more reasonable question? Don't you think it's, why do we, why would we trust the Russian state media who is trying to like fabricate the Russian embassy? Let's, let's, which is 30 seconds and we'll kick it over to you and or Jackson. If I were to try to tell you that I know that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction because the U.S. State Department. Oh my God. Wait, is there an echo? Was that my voice echoing? Because it's pivoting. This is, this was not the pretext for special operations. So it's not a relevant debate. We have to, I promise. You started this debate bitching about not being off topic. Apparently we have to. So I hate to do this. Just let's give another 30 seconds to destiny. We'll come right back to you infrared. Okay. I just, I don't understand because I don't think the Kremlin would be happy if I were to cite the U.S. State Department when the United States is trying to justify a unilateral war against another country. I don't think I'd be able to say, well, the United States has this thing. You would need some sort of like external European Union body or UN body or somebody looking into something. So for Russia that's trying to justify a unilateral invasion country to say that like, well, their embassy said that this was a bio weapon. I don't think that's a good. I don't think that's fair. I feel bad for you, Jackson. Yeah. If this infrared, you got to do me a favor. You can't, if you're going to unmute yourself. Come on. You got to work with me here. Oh, but so I'm going to, I'm going to take his insults and not to respond. We're not going to play those games. You can insult me, but just do it in your time. He's going to, he's going to send his little bitch as Gnomass down and fucking put some respect on this. Or I am going to fucking cut him off. Now, if this was the pretext for Russia's special military operation, you would be right. We wouldn't need that evidence to be provided, but that's not the fucking pretext for the special military operation. It's another type of allegation, the details of which have not been disclosed to the fucking public. So arguing about it is fucking pointless. You want to know my fucking opinion? I trust that they wouldn't make this up because they don't need to because they have plenty enough, such as the fact that the Ukrainian government is infiltrated by anti-Russian neo-Nazi forces. And we're going to talk about that actually. You said that because Zelensky is Jewish and that there's Jewish representation in the Ukrainian government, that there couldn't possibly be neo-Nazi sympathies rampant in the Ukrainian ruling. I never said that there weren't neo-Nazi sympathizers. There might be sympathizers, but that's not what their initial allegation was. First of all, was Nazism solely defined by anti-Semitism? No, it was primary. Anti-Semitism actually was just a subset of the pan-European supremacism that defined Nazism. They were anti-Semitic because they considered Jews to be foreign to Europe, right? The main thrust actually was targeted toward Russians who were considered Asiatic and Slavs to the East in general. Wait, who? They wanted to enslave and exterminate the Russians too and the Slavs too. Nobody cares. This is nothing to do with what we're talking about. No, it does. Because the fact that Zelensky is Jewish doesn't fucking mean that the Ukrainian government can't have neo-Nazi sympathies. Stepan Bandera, who is a Nazi collaborator during World War II, is widely celebrated in Ukraine by the Ukrainian government. They're putting monuments by him. They're putting his pictures up during Maidan. He's been exonerated and he's been rehabilitated despite the fact that he was a fucking Nazi collaborator. Now, if you can't square that consistency at Zelensky is Jewish, you should go as Zelensky himself, why he's the head of a state that is celebrating a Nazi collaborator despite him being of the Jewish background. Are you saying that the Russian Nazis like Jews? They're fine with Jews? I mean, the Ukrainian Nazis. They're fine with Jews. They're like pro-Jew Nazis? That's a question you should raise to them. When I'm asking you, I'm raising the question to you. They may harbor anti-Semitic views, but as far as I'm not concerned, there is nothing impossible about the idea of Western Ukrainian who are from Jewish descent to also have neo-Nazi sympathies themselves. Having sympathies for somebody that might have been a national hero. Oh, I'm sorry. I don't want to interrupt you. We're giving you a good amount of time. Let's kick it over to Stephen. And then Jackson, just after Stephen, just in case Jackson has anything to. So this is like Nazi propaganda. This is like Putin propaganda 101. So the original claim was that the government was full of like neo-Nazis. Oh, it's shift. It is. Am I done talking? Holy shit. Now the claim is moved all the way back to, well, there is a hero that was pretty inarguably a neo-Nazi that some people in Ukraine celebrate. Not some. Not some. Not some. Totally Ukrainian government. No, it's not. He's an incredibly divisive figure. And there is an incredibly divisive figure. Even in Western Ukraine. The United States because of. Am I? Can I finish a fucking sentence? Holy shit. This isn't your Spencer debate. We're going to ramble for 12 fucking hours. We're going to get a fucking word in. Okay. The idea that just because somebody worships some hero or some country said, Oh, this guy was really important in our history. Means that the entire country is all of a sudden infested with neo-Nazis is no less true than when the United States celebrates any fucking hero that has a sort of history or has been racist or has been anti-Semitic or whatever else. The fucking United States took in Nazis after World War II in exchange for some of the scientific information they could give us. It doesn't make us Nazis. It doesn't make our government full of neo-Nazi sympathizers. There are so many actions happening today in Ukraine, not trying to allude to some hero that that a prime minister, you know, in 2010 or whatever decided to nominate as some fucking hero because of his history in Ukraine. You need to show me something current about that. What are the neo-Nazi activities that Ukraine is taking on today? Don't tell me who was nominated as a fucking national hero. You're completely full of fucking shit. You just said that Stepan Banderos There's no one answer. incidentally a Nazi collaborator. His whole historical significance was that he was a fucking Nazi collaborator. He has no significance outside of that. I think I can add some context to this too. It's not like the inventor of the fucking telephone who happened to be a racist. This guy, his primary historical significance was being a Nazi collaborator who betrayed the Soviet Union and was attacking them on behalf of the fucking Nazi to exterminate Slavic and Russian and Ukrainian peoples to create a westernized Ukrainian collaborator state. So you're completely full of fucking shit when it comes to that. Finally, you want to know about the neo-Nazi activities that are going on now and have been going on in the past eight years? Sure. It's the Azov Battalion, which is the vanguard of Ukraine's military in the eastern Ukraine and in the Donbass, which is regularly attacking civilians, regularly shelling civilian infrastructure, regularly embarking on a campaign to slaughter and exterminate the Russian peoples in eastern Ukraine. They committed the massacre of Odessa back in the early days of the Maidan. All sorts of fucking neo-Nazi activities. They burned people alive. They've hung people. They've slaughtered people. They've made people disappear. If you want to talk about neo-Nazi activities in fucking Ukraine that are now in contemporary here, we have a whole host of fucking... Every single thing you just described, modern-day Russians. You've had some context. I want to jump in like... What the fuck? Crucified people. They crucified the people. I don't know. That was neo-Nazi. Yeah, it's not neo-Nazi. They crucified people for being honest. It's not a neo-Nazi war crime. Listen, you guys are going to be a Nazi to make war crimes. You guys have all been talking. Let me get in my two cents now, okay? So, at the end of the day, the primary goal of the ideological inheritors of the organization for Ukrainian nationalists, which is the vanguard of fascism in Ukraine, this is the ideology, the radical faction within this organization, especially of Stefan Bondera, they're the people who are primarily responsible for the hundreds of thousands of, you know, Jewish, Polish, and Russian deaths that took place during World War II when Western, Ukrainian, ultra-nationalists and neo-Nazis were collaborating with the actual Nazis from Germany that were invading, okay? So, ideological inheritors of this ideology and, you know, apologies for not being able to pronounce these names properly, but Ola Tiongniubuk, who was the co-founder of Oleg Svoboda, he claims that he wants to purge Ukraine of Jewish people and Russians. He was ranked the fifth most anti-Semitic political leader on the planet in 2012. It just so happens he was a people's deputy in Ukraine up until 2002. But this guy right here, who was a co-founder of Svoboda, also co-founded this ultra-nationalist right-wing party with Andrei Paroby. He was the leader of the Euro-Medan protests. He was the one that helped organize the violence that was inflicted upon the, what's assumed to be roughly 49, 50 individuals who died in the massacres on February 20th of 2014 at Euro-Medan. He was the speaker of one of the most recent parliaments, the chairs of one of the most recent parliaments in Ukraine. He was the leader of the Society to erect the Stefan-Bondera monument in Ukraine. And he claims that Bondera was the most important person in Ukrainian history. So it's not just, and I could, you know, I could go down a list here. You could Maxim Marchenko, this individual Zelensky replaces civilian governor of Odessa, commander of the far-right Ader battalion. You have Victor Yashenko, who's president. He actually publicly, before leaving office, signed a decree stating that for an unbreakable spirit of heroism, self-sacrifice and the struggle of the independence of Ukraine, I'm granting a status of hero of Ukraine to Stefan Bondera. You can look at, you can look at tons of people, Andrei Belitsky, Ukrainian white nationalist. He was the co-founder of the Social National Assembly, first commander of the Azov Battalion. He's celebrated on TV shows. He was a big, you know, part of the Medan protest. You can go down the line. There are many, many members of, or deputies of the... 30 more seconds. People's deputies of Ukraine national security and defense council, secretaries. All of these people within Ukrainian military and government have had some sort of an ideological either sympathy to or participation in, a lot of these people have, with neo-nazism. Okay, even, and this is the last thing I'll say about neo-nazism. This is a, this is a shocking video. There's a video of some of the neo-nazis who helped organize and carry out the Medan coup, who said, if not for the 8% of neo-nazis, the effectiveness of Medan would have dropped by 90%. And these were the same people that were funded by, indirectly funded by US agencies on the ground, like the National Endowment for Democracy. The last thing I'll say is... Yeah, real quick. So, if the Azov are marginal, if the Azov battalion is marginal, then why did Poroshenko in 2014 say they are our best fighters? Why did even the mainstream western press report that as far as Ukraine's eastern operations were concerned, the Azov battalion was of vital significance. Why did the National Guard of Ukraine... Yeah, we can't answer 400 questions. Yeah, just as a real quick thing. You can go back as much as you want, like 20 years ago, when Ukraine was barely a country for 10 years and the country was still mired in corruption and try to say, well, these guys came from these parties that were like, blah, blah, blah, like, show me anti-Semitism in Ukraine. Ukraine is like one of these walls. Can I... Hold on, hold on. There are a lot of points. So, where is the anti-Semitism in Ukraine? Where is the Nazism in Ukraine? You can't point to the civil war happening in the east and going civilians are dying. That's Nazism. You can't point towards people being killed extra judiciously, people that are being invaded and genocided, people that are being deported from their lands, because if you want to call that Nazism, then we just have to go over to the east and look at Putin. He's the biggest fucking Nazi alive right now. So, the idea that that in and of itself qualifies as anti-Semitism, when Ukraine is probably the least anti-Semitic country in Europe, according to the Ukrainian Jewish Center, and according to the Ukrainian Jewish Encounter at least, when you look at the fact that people in Poland are so eager and keen to take on people that are fleeing from Ukraine, we don't see this mass persecution of Jewish people in Ukraine. We don't see any rampant anti-Semitism in Ukraine. You can go back all you want and point to one hero that was nominated by an outgoing prime minister, or you can point to these people that in the very beginning came from party parties, but there's just no evidence today that there is this rampant anti-Semitism, this rampant Nazism in Ukraine. Where are you getting this idea that the only measurement of Nazism is anti-Semitism? Okay. Thank you very much. So, there's also something that's really interesting here, and it's that Nazism seems to matter so much on one side. Nobody cares about the neo-Nazi militias fighting side-by-side with Russian soldiers. Nobody even brings them up. The Russian national unity movement and the militias fighting on behalf of the Donetsk People's Republics. That isn't brought up. Why? Because those are inconvenient Nazis. Those are Nazis on the Russian side. People don't talk about the fact that we're talking about the Nazis are bad. Why are the Nazis bad? Obviously, because they put people in concentration camps and they slaughtered people in all the war crimes that he brings up. But the fact that the same people involved in putting homosexuals in concentration camps, or right now within Ukraine fighting against the Ukrainian government, that isn't something of concern. I heard them laugh when I talked about Belarus, the Belarusian dictator Lukashenko, praising Adolf Hitler. These things are inconvenient facts because the problem is, and this is the fact of the matter, there are Nazis fucking everywhere across this conflict. But the problem is the people want to hype up the Nazis on one side to make them the Nazis because Slavic people have a terrible history with Nazis. If you can make your opponent the Nazis, then boom, they're the bad guys. Anything you do against them is justified. If I could stand here and tell you that Russia is a Nazi state, I could bring up the fact that 5% of Ukrainians believe that Jews should not be allowed to be citizens, while 15% of Russians believe that thing, almost triple that statistic. I could bring up the Lukashenko quotes about Hitler. I could bring up the gays being put in concentration camps in Russian territory. I could bring up the neo-Nazis militias and say, so Russia is a Nazi state, but that would be dishonest. But I'm seeing that dishonesty from both of you right now is making Ukraine a Nazi state. And I don't even think Jackson and infrared got the points in order. Jackson's saying that they are anti-Semitic Nazis, infrared saying that these are Nazis who love the Jews. I didn't fucking say that. What I actually said was that the emphasis on anti-Semitism may not be as strong as the emphasis on pan-European supremacism and racial exterminationism, but that's the fucking point. And moreover, the movement for national unity is not at all fucking relevant or prevalent within the fucking Donbass. They're fighting. Hold on. Yeah, they're nowhere near as relevant or proportional to the fucking forces of the Russians that are fighting in the Donbass as is the Azov battalion. They're marginal. They're completely marginal. But the Chechens are fighting. The Chechens are right now a very important part of Russia's operation right now. You think the Chechens are working alongside these totally Islamophobic, prevalent forces. They're fucking completely marginal. And if you take into account the premise of what started this entire conflict back in 2014, the Euromaidan protests and the violence that ensued there and the fact that it was co-opted by these coup leaders that were Western backed, you do have to acknowledge that the effort to, you know, accomplish this in the success of the movement was led in great part thanks to Andrei Perubi, who is the speaker of one of the most recent parliaments and the chair of one of the most recent parliaments in Ukraine. This is the guy who literally sparked the entire conflict. Another thing I heard you say that was even maybe more damning than the fact that you falsely claimed that, you know, the president was impeached when he wasn't impeached was when you said that you claimed that or maybe it was destiny, actually. I might be, you know, getting my quotes wrong. One of you said that Crimea was illegally invaded by Russia. I would be, I'd just be curious, like, hear your thoughts on that more and whether or not you respect the will of the Crimean people who voted in a referendum overwhelmingly to legally join the Russian Federation. 96.77% voted in favor of joining the Russian Federation. Is that after the invasion? 2.51% supported staying in Ukraine. Jackson, was that after Russia invaded Crimea? They held that referendum, right? I just want to get that. What do you find as a Russian? I just wanted to hear, yes or no, is that Jackson? Was that the Russian referendum they held after they invaded Crimea? Listen, what do you find as a Russian invasion? Because going back to 1804, there's been Russian troops in Crimea. The invasion of, when they took over, when they invaded Crimea. You can't answer that question. Russia's been continuously invading Ukraine despite the fact that they have had troops there since 1804. Then sure, we'll call it an invasion, but we both know it's not an invasion. The Crimeans declared their independence before the Russian invasion. Just like the people in the Don basted. Having troops stationed in a port is taking over the entire peninsula. What's your evidence they took over the entire peninsula? Because there are plenty of videos on the ground of people saying they are not threatening anybody. They're here peacefully. Who has sovereignty right now over the Crimean Peninsula? Who administers right now to the region of the Crimean Peninsula? Is it the Ukrainian government? Or is it the Russian government? It's a part of the Russian Federation and they voted that. Who held that referendum? The referendum was organized by the people of Crimea. Under who? It was a Russian organized referendum. It was organized by the Crimean Peninsula. It would actually happen. Pardon my interruption. Just to be sure, Jackson, did you feel like you had enough time to answer that last question from Steven? Sure. I think Steven, you were asking. A referendum that's not recognized by any other country in the world, including Ukraine, obviously. The idea that you could invade some part of a country and then hold a referendum there to see if those people want to stick with you. Even if we granted all of that, that they did say yes, you can't just have populations referendum away parts of your country's sovereign territory to other invading nation states. That's just not how that works. Even if that was the case, I don't care what's interesting here. Even if that was the case, it doesn't work that way in any other part of the world. Respect that way. Respecting the results. No, no, wait. Hold on. I didn't even answer your question. I didn't even get to answer his question. Let me respond to what you said. Gentlemen, I hate to do this, but I do want to say, Dylan, is there anything you want to clean up on behalf of Destiny? There's two things. The first thing I wanted to bring up is that I didn't hear from infrared really. He just said the Chechens are fighting the yes, but Chechens involved in putting homosexuals in concentration camp. That doesn't make them Nazis. Wait, wait, wait. Listen to me. Wait, let me fit. Whether they're Nazis or not specifically doesn't matter. Okay, then just say that. Let me finish. I don't care. Shut up. I don't care. I'm trying to finish my point. I think that people who put people in concentration camps, minority groups, should not be involved in any active combat zone anywhere. In fact, they should not even be allowed to hold governmental positions. And I'm not finished, and so you should stop talking. And so with that in mind and knowing the, when you guys talked about all these war crimes and everything that was so terrible, I think it's weird that we can just look past the fact that one of the people involved currently in fighting the Ukrainians are the same people who love people in concentration camps in Chechnya. Also, it's weird that you are fine downplaying your guys' Nazis. You admit I guess they are Nazis fighting on behalf of your guys' side. You'll downplay your own Nazis and upplay the other side's Nazis because you're Nazis again or inconvenient. It's inconvenient that there's Nazis on your side. And so instead of being like, there's no Nazis on our side, these Nazis are fighting a campaign of denazification. Also too, I never even got to finish my earlier response to Jackson's near-nazition. I was almost done. It's one last thing. It's my fault. He doesn't talk too much. It's my fault. Okay, wait, one second. I do want to give Indra a brief chance and then Destiny, I know you have a couple of points you want to make. So, Infra, I want to give you a chance. Yeah, yeah, let's go. So the first thing is very clear. Dylan, I know that you're in favor of a Nazi pan-European supremacist but LGBT-friendly ideology. I already know that. Okay? But the fact is I agree. It's probably true that there's homophobia in Chechnya. They're very much more in favor of more traditional values. That's their business. As far as concentration camps are concerned I've seen no fucking evidence for that throwing them in concentration camps. But even if I were to grant you that that was true that still doesn't make them fucking Nazis who want to exterminate whole peoples because of their fucking nationality or their race or their ethnic origins. You seem to think that's not as bad or that's some kind of equivalent, right? But I don't think that's a fucking equivalent. I don't think having a conservative country which I don't agree with persecuting sexual minorities. I just don't think that's on the same fucking level as being a goddamn fucking Nazi. You seem to not fucking care about that distinction. Now you're saying that I'm down playing the Nazis on the Russian side because they're not convenient. Never mind the fucking fact that in terms of the objective significance they have compared to the fucking Azov battalion on the Ukrainian side they are nowhere near as fucking relevant. They're not significant. They are marginal. They are marginal. Objective! Objective! I just need you to... I did send something too. It did seem like your volume... He jacked his shit out. Yeah, because you're making everybody louder than me. No, no, no, I promise I'm not. Was that Russian propaganda? I mean these Nazis... People in my own shadow... I can give you 20 seconds in terms of wrapping up your point. Dylan is making the claim that it's just inconvenient for me rather than the actual reality being the fact that the Russian nationalists and the Russian neo-Nazis are completely marginal in the Donbass whereas the Azov battalion are not. He mentioned something also about Lukashenko's comments that were taken out of context. Lukashenko is an anti-fascist 100% anti-Nazi, 100% anti-Hitler. We can actually get into the nitty-gritty of what proves and backs that up too. You took some statements you made out of context. Stephen's been waiting for a while to respond. Yeah, so just to reiterate again, the Azov battalion is not making up the brunt of the fighting forces in Eastern Ukraine. This is a small battalion of less than 3,000 fighters. The idea that these people are making up the majority of Ukraine's forces is just not true, and even of the Azov battalion only minority of these people are neo-Nazis even of the Azov battalion are Nazis. There are problems there for sure but this claim that there is a broader Nazi problem in Ukraine I mean, at this point maybe there is if we're defining Nazis as people that are pro-LGBT and pro-Semitism. I don't know what kind of Nazis these are or what makes them Nazis. Aside from earlier you said they kill people which I guess everybody on the planet is racist. Hitler wasn't going for pro-European supremacy. Yes he was! Okay. Did you really just say he wasn't going for European supremacy? In his last fucking speech he talked about how Europe will be triumphant against the hordes coming from Central Asia. Europe who? Every member of Europe, every state that invaded Europe was a European supremacist. He was a western European supremacist. He considered western Europeans and everyone else to be subhuman. Would you characterize the Nazism of Germany as having a large anti-Semitic component and having a large ethnic component where that ethnicity is not defined as European? Aryan is literally western European for the Nazis. That's literally what it is. Okay. Because you're a little bitch and you never fucking defend what you just said because you're fucking wrong. Let's have Jackson. Go ahead. I would like to just say one thing really quick and then a broader point. Destiny seems to be just hyper-focusing on the Azov battalion, which yes, is making up the brunt of the violent aggression against the people of the Netskin-Lahansk. Keep in mind that war, 81% of the civilian deaths that have taken place there in the past three years took place on the side of the Netskin-Lahansk. But as I mentioned the people who literally led this coup are the ultra-nationalist right-wingers many of whom, but not all are anti-Semites and encompass this neo-Nazi ideology. You seem to be leaving that out and I can guess the motive why. To get to the broader point here, Destiny, a few minutes ago you said that it's not okay for, and I'm paraphrasing, so if you want to rephrase this after the fact, go for it. It's not okay for troops to come into a what you recognize as a sovereign country and, you know, forcibly bring about a change of power. I think that's, you know, we can both agree, right? So why is it that you think that it's okay, I guess, for these far-right paramilitary groups that encompass this neo-Nazi ideology to hijack the Maidan protests, massacre people on February 20th, when the protests were actually dying down and people were going home and cause all of this violence to spiral out of control and then when negotiations are going on between some of these neo-Nazis and the Yanukovych government to try and bring about pre-term elections to restore some order to the Ukrainian government with Yanukovych the neo-Nazi factions, again, like Andriy Peruby, who was the leader, the commandant of the Euro-Maidan protests he ordered upon his paramilitary individuals to continue blockading to continue, you know, holding their ground, so to speak, and holding their ground throughout the entirety of this protest meant raining down hellfire upon both protesters and police to incite more violence and there's been countless Maidan leaders and activists who provided a testimony that they were the snipers, it was not members of the Ukrainian police who were doing this. Wait, so do you not believe that Yanukovych ordered his special military people to fire on protesters? You think that's just completely and totally bullshit? Oh, 100%. There's no evidence and in fact the Ukraine's Ministry of Internal Affairs literally says this much. Why do you say there's no evidence of that? Because the Ukrainian special investigation into this, the special investigation into this actually did not make any initial charges against people who were involved in this and again in the... Wait, they didn't make charges because Yanukovych wasn't even given guarantees that he wouldn't be charged, that's why he fled to Russia. Unlike the prior prime minister that was able to have a transfer of power because he was guaranteed he wouldn't be charged, Yanukovych wasn't given any such guarantee, that's why he left the country. My point here as to why I'm saying this, you keep citing the fact that you keep citing the fact that you keep citing it in the case. Hold on, wait, I barely talked, this guy's like rambled so much. I haven't responded to half what the shit guy said. There's no evidence for this. So you said why do I think that there's no evidence for this or whatever? So the Ukrainian investigation they didn't find any and in fact again there's been several made-on leaders and activists who provided testimonies while 14 self-admitted members of the made-on sniper units admitted in media interviews to the made-on massacre to sniping police and protesters. Several former members of the Georgian military testified that they and other groups of made-on snipers in Hotel Ukraine where these bullets were coming from and the investigation actually proved that bullets were coming from here. They just never actually went to the extent of saying who is in the hotel. Wait, do you want to take it over to Steven? I should give you a chance to answer the question. There's a lot of evidence. So Steven wants the full answer. He should be willing to get the full answer. There's like 20 different things I haven't responded to. So who's finding I'm not changing. You're the one that's adding a new goalpost at the end of every single sentence you've said. I can't even respond. Hold on. Wait, are we doing this right now? Is this what we need to do to get the conversation going? Okay. So who do you side with? Who's ruling? What organization? What governments ruling do you side with that said that police did not fire upon protesters during the year? What what side do I side with? Whose investigation are you citing? Whose details? Who's findings? Not a one-off media interview that was I'm referring to the testimonies given by the snipers themselves. Testimony to who? Why would you only agree? Why would you only look at some testimony? Why wouldn't you look at the overall ruling of the Ukrainian interior ministry? Because the Ukrainian investigation did not find they did not place fault on either side. Though according to the testimonies themselves, they admitted fault for doing this. It's not that they didn't place fault on that. They explicitly said that Yanukovych ordered his police to fire upon the protesters. Do you deny that they said that? They did not. They did not place blame on them. Who's saying please blame them? They made the statement. Their findings said Who did they charge? Because I don't think it was their role to charge anybody. Yanukovych already fled the country. It was their role to place charges. They didn't place charges because they couldn't find evidence that the police did this. In fact, the reason why, Destiny, why can't you give me an answer for this? There are testimonies that the Maidon organizers were the snipers who shot at police and protesters. We have forensic examinations as well by government ballistic experts which determine that about a dozen cases that the protesters were shot from Maidon controlled structures including the hotel. A forensic ballistic examination found that the bullets killed protesters did not match bullet samples from the police. I mean, I could go on and on. Why are you making assumptions without looking at the evidence itself? Because I feel like I would rather rely on the overall rulings or findings of the entire committee rather than just trying to go off of some of the testimony that you might have found given by some of the officers that Maidon had been involved. Well, I could go on more but you have to understand that this committee at the end of the day is being controlled by the coup government who actually carried out this operation. But earlier you had no problems going by the Russian State Department about stuff going on in Ukraine? I'm not talking about that right now. I'm talking about this. I'm actually looking at this investigation fairly and honestly and you made the accusation that it was police from the Ukrainian security services that fired down. Now you're getting caught in a little problem here so you're trying to deflect back to earlier discussions. Why did you make that claim without evidence? Why did Yanukovych flee the country and be prosecuted? It was a coup government that was going to fucking change the subject. It was a coup government that was led by the guy that he was going to make his prime minister anyway. Destiny, I just want to say one last thing on this point because clearly you're refusing to acknowledge the reality of the situation. Most people consider what took place on February 20th when 49 individuals were killed as the most controversial hours in any European conflict at the end of the Cold War. It was the precipice for this coup. It was what launched all of this conflict into action so to speak. So the fact that it was a false flag attack led by the coup protesters themselves, the militia organizers themselves to try and get western backing and to try and incite more chaos in the streets when the protests were dying down is a very, very important note when you look at the broader context of all of this and the fact that after the coup that took place because of this, that is what sparks the increased aggression in the Donbas and that is what also sparks the increased aggression against protesters in Odessa who are fighting back against the coup government. You have no evidence to support any of that, that there was western backing to any of these people that any of this was a false flag. Everything you're going off of is complete conjecture. The testimony of one or two, I've got testimony and UFOs abducting people, the testimonies of one or two people doesn't prove any of the claims that you're making. Let's just actually go to US involvement in this because I have a lot of quotes from actual diplomats themselves who admitted that they were involved in providing funding, direct funding to the made on coup organizers. So first of all we have Victoria Newland and Jeffrey Piot who are two US diplomats, US-Ukrainian diplomats at the time who have a viral leaked phone conversation admitting to the fact that they were handpicking the coup government. And that conversation where? You wanted to send you the link to it? No, because I've already read the entire conversation. They don't admit that ever. They never said anything about handpicking the new government. It wouldn't even make sense. Really? Yes, really. Give me the quote where they say that. Yeah, read it. Okay. We have a leaked phone call here. They said fuck the EU, referencing to the fact that the EU is not being aggressive enough during this whole situation. And then we said, or we have a Victoria Newland here say yachts referring to Yatsenyuk is the guy who's got the economic experience she said. Referring to opposition leader Arsene Yatsenyuk who backed the devastating neoliberal policies that were demanded by the West. So they were discussing whether or not Yatsenyuk was going to be an effective leader in the new government and they were saying well maybe this person should be directly outside of the new government with Yatsenyuk. And Destiny, guess who ended up becoming the new Prime Minister after the coup? Destiny. None of this shows them picking a leader. As you said, Yatsenyuk was already the opposition leader. Where is this idea that they picked him? Who became the Prime Minister? What do you mean? After the coup. Yatsenyuk? Yeah. Who was already the opposition leader. He was already the opposition leader. He already had the most votes in the parliament. What do you mean? Andre Piribi was the Maidan coup leader. Where is the evidence that he was handpicked? Because he didn't have the backing in parliament for it. You're pivoting. Where is the evidence that this guy was handpicked by the United States? That he was pushed by the United States? A conversation about this guy saying he would be good when he's already the opposition leader. What is the evidence of him being handpicked by the West? Well, there was multiple people in that conversation that they were going back and forth. Yeah, they're going back and forth discussing potential. You have no evidence. This is everything you do. Just Destiny. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. If there's evidence in the phone call of two diplomats saying, man, this leader in this country would be so awesome. Yeah, that other one sucks. Yeah, it does. Yeah, but did you say? Did you said? $5 billion in previous years to lead these regime change operations. Where does she admit that? Read that quote, read that quote. Read that quote where she admit that. Okay, I will give me one second here. Can we all sit in silence while he reads and wait for I want to hear that quote where she says, the United States sent $5 billion in aid to stoke this coup. Let me pull it up. exactly where the five billion dollars went. I would be interested in that too. In the meantime, folks, our guests are linked in the description. If you haven't already clicked on there, you can hear more from them. Also, I would like to say that there is tons of evidence of the Chechen government putting gays in concentration camps for multiple news outlets. That's not what we're debating today. The only thing is you have to acknowledge. Well, we can debate that another time. But for now, what we're saying is that that is not the same as Nazism. Okay. But is that of concern? Do you think? If I was Chechen, I would be opposed to it, but I don't live in Chechnya. It's not my business. Do you think that fighters who put gay people in concentration camps should be active in combat? You cannot, you cannot, you cannot make the racist claim that all Chechen wait, no, wait, no, I'm not saying all Chechen soldiers, but the, no, there are officials who were involved in that fighting in Ukraine right now. Which ones? You know, the one that you're like Dylan, you, you liar, you've said this guy died. That guy, right? Yeah, you're saying he's alive. That guy, he was okay. I'm saying, okay, that guy, let's say he's alive. That makes your argument even worse. That guy was involved in putting homosexuals in concentration camps. Okay. I haven't seen any evidence for that. There's tons of evidence. Jackson, I don't want you to feel left out. So Victoria Newland, US Assistant Secretary of State estimated in 2013 that the USA had quote, invested more than $5 billion in 1991 to help Ukraine achieve the future it deserves. Or sorry, 19, no, no, no, no, since 1991, since 1991, they've been investing money to have the coup in 2014. Do you not think that the Ukrainian citizen, wait, wait, wait, wait, yeah, wait, wait, what was the quote again? Can you say it one more time? Yeah, let's hear the quote again. Since USA had invested more than $5 billion since 1991 to help Ukraine achieve the future it deserves. What does that mean? How does that mean that they're achieving a coup? That could mean, hey, we're giving them money to help Ukraine get better. But considering Victoria Newland had leaked audio recordings, handpicked Yatsenyuk as the new leader. They didn't handpick. We've already heard about it. That's bullshit. Also, we saw that the National Endowment for Democracy's president said this about U.S. support. He said just two months before the Maidon protest broke out, he wrote that quote, the opportunities are considerable, and there are important ways Washington could help. And this was in reference to the, this was in reference to the coup. This was the president of the National Endowment for Democracy. There is nothing specific. It's all vague. It's nothing specific. Yeah, so here's the question. Where did the money go? Yeah, where did the $5 billion go? Yeah. So who received the money to start the coup? It's not the goalpost. This is where we're at. We're in the middle of the field. Like the thing is, I know that Putin said this specific thing. And the thing is, the $5 billion did not go anywhere near a coup aid or anything. The $5 billion. No, I'm asking you, Jackson. Jackson, you said the $5 billion. No, Jackson, you said it. Jackson, no, you said it. Where do you think you said it? Jackson, you said it. Jackson, you said it. You can pretty easily, logically infer that the fuck. Okay, pardon me. Just to be sure that people can hear each of you make your point. So just going in order, we'll go off about it, which is a DHJ. So, okay, Dylan and then Haas and then Jackson. So Jackson, you talked about the $5 billion. We're saying it did not go towards a coup. I don't see no evidence of this. This is something Putin repeated in his speech, which is a lie. So I'm asking you, since you referenced the $5 billion and you have yet to show any evidence that anybody was handpicked, where did it go? Where did this $5 billion go for this coup? So Dylan, I know you're a fucking dumbass and you can't put two and two together here. There is logically nowhere else the $5 billion could have gone. So you don't know. You don't know. It couldn't logically speaking. It couldn't have gone anywhere else. $5 billion from 1990. Wait, wait. Do you know the history of Ukrainian-American relations since 1994 to 2014? Dylan, let me finish my point. You mute them. Unless Jackson has something. You don't think? Jackson won't give you a chance to hear how I don't respond. Yeah, let him leave. Or you might be on mute Jackson. Let me let me unmute you. I think I put you on there earlier. Okay. All right. Can you guys hear me? The financial times, you're right, Dylan. Sure. I don't have the exact bank wire transfers and shit. You're right. I'm just completely making all this stuff up. Financial times, though, reported that groups like New Citizen received this funding and they said that they reported that this money played a big role in getting the protests up and running, referring to the Medan protests. This was led, of course, by Andrei Perubi, who's a notorious neo-Nazi within Ukraine that called upon the firing of protesters in police in the protests. There was one other point you made that's slipping my mind right now. Sure, we don't have the exact bank wire transfers, but you can't entertain the fact that this all happened. $5 billion here. We have these phone recordings. We have all of this going on. We have, you know, Chris Murphy, John McCain, Victoria Nuland, Jeffrey Piat, going out on the streets of Medan, passing out cookies to the protest. I think we're doing, he's doing the Gishgala. Wait, let me finish. Let me finish. Oh my God, dude, it's just a million bullshit points. Yeah, I agree. I agree. It's like when one of them, you're damn blue. You're 15 more seconds, Jackson, and then we gotta move. Every time I get interrupted or you interrupt. So let me finish. You cannot entertain or you have to entertain the fact rather that the fact that the funding began in 1991, one year directly after the efforts upon NATO aligned countries to bring Ukraine into NATO, that that lines up perfectly with what's the overarching mission at play here is of Victoria Nuland to get the anti-NATO forces within Ukraine to pose from government. That's Yanukovych and to get pro-NATO individuals in government to join NATO. So I gotta, I gotta respond to that because the thing is the five is also one year after the collapse of the Soviet Union and Ukraine went into economic ruin and the $5 billion is something Putin stated as well. That's referencing to the entirety of USA to Ukraine from that date to 2014. So you're telling me that the entirety of USA to Ukraine was made up of just going to coup stuff when you have no evidence, no financial documents, no transactions, no direct evidence of any sort than any of that went towards resources towards a coup. It is referenced to aid. He named it. No, he didn't. He named nothing. You left your little bitch. You weren't here. No, he didn't. So where did it go? Where did it go? And what did the coup, what did this group do that did the revolution? What did it do? Organized, helped organize the protests. It was a group that helped organize. So the $5 billion went to what? What? So I'm saying that Financial Times reported again, you're right. I don't have the exact wire transfers. I'm not in these people's bank accounts. I'm just saying it's a little bit suspicious that we have Victoria Newland saying that we have $5 billion going to Ukraine since 1991. Victoria Newland's office happens to be the same office in which the National Endowment for Democracy is located. They share an office in Ukraine. We have Financial Times reporting that new citizen received some of this money. Sure, probably definitely not all $5 billion of it. And it just so happens that these protests, which were Western backed, and we know, according to this phone call, they were at least sympathetic to the leader Yatsenyuk, who became the prime minister directly after the protests. This stuff all lines up. And it just so happened. I got to respond. I got to respond. I got to respond. Okay, so we haven't said we haven't established. We haven't established a single fact. We haven't literally haven't established a single fact. We haven't established. We haven't established a single fact. So all we've seen is that since in 1992, after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the United States and Ukraine signed a bilateral deal with the United States with some aid to Ukraine to help them for a variety of things. They identified three strategic objectives. It was to create a broad-based market economy to help build a participatory democratic political system and to assist in social sector reforms to ease the difficulties of transition. That's where the money went towards the government themselves, the governments themselves were the ones that were organizing and receiving the aid. The idea that you're trying to pretend that this $5 billion that's been allocated since 1992 somehow went through black market channels. If it did, then we wouldn't be talking about the $5 billion that the United States said that it sent. This would be black money or dark money that's going through other channels that you wouldn't have any idea about. Or rather, it would have been established by like a WikiLeaks leak or something like that. The idea that official U.S. aid that was agreed upon by the Ukrainian government, that it was going to end up in the Ukrainian government, and then somehow the leaders in the Ukrainian government decided to allow that aid that they as a government agreed to accept would be funneled to groups that would eventually form a coup is ridiculous. A lot of this aid was far-reaching. It wouldn't surprise me if you could identify one or two groups that were involved in protests or coups that received this aid. Yanukovych probably had a lot of personal friends and probably people in the government that received that aid as well. The idea that that aid was used to back some sort of coup because you have a recording with two U.S. diplomats talking about a preference in leadership in a relatively volatile country. I don't understand why you think you can link these two things together. I can tell you right now that the United States sends so much aid all across the world. I could probably find aid going to every single fucking country that's ever had a revolution, that's ever had a coup, that's ever had any sort of political turmoil, and find two U.S. diplomats talking. Can I finish one statement? I have to finish a single statement. To be clear, the evidence we have is that since 1992, the United States has sent $5 billion to the Ukrainian government, not to secret groups, not to protest groups, not to future coupers, that the Ukrainian government itself okayed this bilateral agreement to humanitarian aid, and the only evidence that we have, and the only evidence that this went to fund a coup is two U.S. diplomats talking on the phone expressing a preference for some leadership or failure of the EU to act on something. Okay, let me go now. Let me go now. Okay, because this is actually really fucking simple. So first of all, there's like many prongs to the fucking stupidity. Did you just lay it on my fucking table? Now, the first thing is that you actually contradicted your little friend Dylan here because Dylan the fucking liar just sat here and said the $5 billion was an economic aid to Ukraine. No one fucking wasn't because Newland herself who publicly denies funding the Maidan coup in the same sentence she utters denying it said that the $5 billion since 1991 was there to promote democracy. And you know what that fucking means? It means promoting NGOs, civil society groups and forces within the Ukrainian government that are aligned with the U.S. Now, you're trying to make this election also absurd that they would fund the Ukrainian government that's later going to be overthrown. The thing is, the whole of the Ukrainian government wasn't overthrown. There are elements within the Ukrainian government that were against the president at that time. The coup was actually against the president, not the entire Ukrainian state itself. And even during the presidency of Yanukovych before the 2014 Maidan, there was still a division of spheres of influence within the Ukrainian government between the Americans and the Europeans on one hand and the Russians. It was not a Russian puppet government by any stretch of the fucking imagination. It was still justice divided. And that $5 billion that was given to the Ukrainians since 1991 was going toward the forces that ultimately would culminate in the Maidan. Now, Jackson literally gave you a concrete fucking example of a group that received funds from this $5 billion that participated that was pivotal for the helped organize protests for the fucking Maidan. So the whole point is that this $5 billion for regime change and democracy exporting that the U.S. was giving the Ukrainian government, which I reiterate, building the fucking liar claimed was economic aid when it was not really political. So can I get a commitment on it? Can you give me a commitment that none of this money went to economic? No, no, no, you're shifting a goalpost. Wait, no, I want to hear that. Some of it, some of it may have an economic component to it, but it was primarily to promote to see you. So number one, that's not that's not okay. That's not even true. So yeah, number one, 1.1 billion of it went to economic growth. 2.4 billion went to things like military assistance, border security, human trafficking issues, international narcotics abatement, law and form misinduction. That's actually the majority of it. That the majority of that is not promoting democracy. It would actually be labeled under promoting peace and security. When you talk about things like human trafficking, which is a legitimate I'm just telling you the exact money amounts, where it's going, and you're rejecting it. I'm telling you exact money. And the thing is about that human trafficking, it's after the collapse of the Soviet Union. There was a lot of issues when it comes to children being sold into sexual slavery. There was a lot of issues which the CIA is involved with. Okay, wait, he can't just keep screaming into his microphone, jacked up as loud as possible. Like you want to cry about? I'm trying. Okay, so okay, so back to the issue. This is why a lot of this money went to Ukraine. It went to things to deal with things like human trafficking. It went there to deal with economic aid after the economic collapse post Soviet Union. All some of it, of course, some of it went to 800 million of it went to governing justly and democratically and 400 million went to investing in people. We can get into specifics if you want to break that down, but there was no evidence in the $5 billion of this, of the $5 billion, any of this going into black sites or anything of this sort. The majority of this money didn't even have to do with democracy necessarily. Got to go into Q&A shortly, but I know that Jackson, I think you wanted to say something. So yeah, I would like to say something. So we also have the fact that at the start of the Maidan protests, the three new TV shows in Ukraine that news TV shows that were covering the protests and working with opposition were Romadsky.tv. And there was two other ones. Let me see if I can find these here. But while I find these, I also want to note that these three TV stations received funding from the Dutch and U.S. embassies as well as the Renaissance Foundation, which was funded by George Soros. The other two were Spillno.tv and Nepeko.tv. I don't know how to pronounce that. And George Soros during the coup, the Maidan coup himself admitted, quote, I set up a foundation in Ukraine before Ukraine became independent of Russia. And the foundation has been functioning ever since it ever since. And it played an important part in the Maidan events right now. And then the third point, because again, you've alleged that I can't provide evidence for this. I've also provided the new citizen organization, which was involved in the coup. We also have Yevon Karas, who is the leader of Ukraine's neo-Nazi terror gang, C-14, which again helped lead the coup. He was the guy who said that if it were not for the 2% of neo-Nazis that were active within the Maidan protests, it would have been 90% less effective and successful. He said, quote, we are now being given money, so much weapons, not because, as some say, the West is helping us, not because they want the best for us, but because we perform the tasks by the West because we are the only ones who are ready to do and we have, wait, sorry, because we're the only ones who are ready to do them because we have fun. We have fun killing and we have fun fighting. And they like, wow, let's see what's going to happen. Can I do, can I do a thing because we're going into Q&A soon? Let's actually say, if Dylan will allow me, let's actually grant all of this. Let's say that there was a coup. Let's say that there was some revolution for some reason. Future leadership is still maintaining a lot of popularity throughout most of Ukraine. Let's say that all of that happened, okay, but it was a coup, it was a legal, all that shit. What right does that give Russia to invade Ukraine? Oh, that's very simple. We should have gotten that for the start. So we talked about the balance of security architecture within Europe, which Ukraine was planning on upsetting with its plans to fucking join NATO. But that alone, you're right, doesn't justify an invasion, which is why Russia kept trying to negotiate with its Western partners for some eight, nine years about this issue, leading to fucking nowhere to the point where they finally tried to negotiate with Ukraine also about the issue of the Donbass to settle a peace. And Ukraine signed the Minsk Agreement to have a ceasefire in the Donbass. As recent as January of 2022, Ukraine made it very clear that it had no intention to implement the Minsk Agreement, which said that they would lead to the destruction of our country. And we had to sign it at gunpoint by Russia. Now, finally, Ukraine's continued attacks against the people of the Donbass. There would amounts to basically a genocide, the constant shelling of civilian infrastructure and the daily terrorism experienced by the people of the Donbass by Ukraine's armed forces in the Azal Battalion. Russia decided to step in finally and recognize the republics. And when those republics became sovereign in Russia's eyes, and Russia did this, by the way, can we just, can we do this simply instead of reveling about the entire history of the we're going to remember when those, when those republics continued to be shelled and attacked after they were recognized? He's just sprouting up history. Yeah, he does this every time. He can't answer a question. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the fucking answer. You know, Russia is justified. Russia is justified for no other reason than to protect and guarantee its own security as a country as well as the, yeah. So my question that is, so my question is to protect the people of the Donbass. So my question is, why does the security of Russia supersede the security of the Ukrainian people? When you open this, the quote about how the security of one country, sure, because the security of the Ukrainian people was never under threat by Russia. It's NATO who is tipping its balance in the, how is the security of Russia under threat by NATO? How is the security of Russia under threat by NATO? Sure. NATO has a history of disrespecting the sovereignty of other countries and invading other countries like Russia does right now with Ukraine. This is a fucking self-fulfilling prophecy. Russia is doing what it's doing in Ukraine to prevent NATO aggression against Russia. Russia has no plan on forcing it. So why can't Ukraine have legitimate security? Russia doesn't export its system or its values. NATO does. It's that. Russia, the Soviet Union absolutely has in the past. Russia is absolutely looking to the future. Russia is not the Soviet Union. And second of all, the Soviet Union did not fucking export its system by military force. No, it didn't. It absolutely did. No, it fucking didn't. It's a single example of that. All three of the Baltics at the very least. The Baltics were not taken by the Soviet Union to expand its system, but because it was a form of revanchism for the former territories of the Russian Empire. The countries were invaded, had their parliament disposed of, and then took votes and held referendums to join the Soviet Union. Sound similar? Like Crimea. But Russia, the Soviet Union is a huge history of doing this. The Republic referendum, 96% of them. Yeah, not crazy. How can you get invaded? Crazy. What the fuck are you talking about? Hold on, wait, hold on, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's fuck Crimea. Let's fuck Crimea. I can't even finish my question. I just didn't finish this point at all. You finished my question. It was. I have to just say that. You cannot say that. Dylan had been focused for a while. Let me quickly finish this point about Crimea. 15 seconds. First of all, the people of Crimea made the decision first, and then the Russian military came. Hi, come on. Dylan's been waiting for a long time. I do want to get you on it for a while. They declared independence before. Okay, so what's really interesting about the Crimea thing is you keep bringing up the referendum. Jackson, can you tell me what were the options on the referendum? Oh, the two choices. They declared independence before the referendum. Wait, no, wait, no, Jackson, could you answer that question quick? They declared independence before the referendum. No, I'm asking Jackson a question. I'm asking, I didn't ask. What were the two options? What were the options on the referendum? What were the options on the referendum? What were the two options? What were the two options? Answer my question. What were the two options? I don't care how you want to contrue it. Well, no, answer my question. What were the two options? It was legal. What were the two options? The Crimean government voted out in favor of the Crimea. Dylan, can you make him answer my question? Earlier, he said, can you make him answer my question? Hold on, all right, all right. I'm not going to answer my question. He's dodging it. OK, so the reason that it's my time to phone, if he's not answering my question. OK, so I do want to give, I want to go back to Dylan. We'll give him a chance, and then we'll give you a chance to answer the question. Jackson, Infra, I've got you. They already declared independence. OK, just to say, I've got you on mute. OK, so the reason why Jackson isn't answering my question is because the two options, neither of them was joining back with Ukraine. So they were. Because they had already declared independence. Just shut up, please. Jesus Christ. So the reason why a lot of people, including like Crimean Tartars and others boycott it. They already declared independence. Jesus, the week. The reason why. I'm sorry, the week. The reason why. They had already declared independence before. James, I can't. I can't do it, man. You can't, because you are fucking. They declared independence before. Since they overrejected the government. They're muting themselves. All right, well, let's go to Dylan. You had a question. Yeah, I didn't. I never got to finish. Liar. I didn't even get to say what I'm lying about. You didn't even let me lie yet. I'm about to lie. Because they had already declared independence. Let me lie. OK, let me tell my evil Western lies. OK, and then you can like talk later. OK, so my evil Western lie is that neither of the options on the referendum was to join Ukraine. It was a, join Russia formally, or B, be an independent state heavily influenced by the Russian government. Is that what it said Dylan? Is that exactly what it said? That's not the exact words. It was a lot. You're fucking insane. Let me get this morning and I'll stop and relax. Jackson, Jackson, Jackson, Jackson. I never, I can't talk. I can't talk. I can't talk. I can't talk. I can't talk. I can't talk. I can't. I can't. OK, hold on. What was the question that you had, Dylan, that we do have to go? I didn't even have a question anymore. I'm just trying to say something and they won't let me. Just let me get one point in 15 seconds. No, I don't care. I don't care. I'm not making any. Give me 15 seconds. Give me 15 seconds. No. Is that to be fair to Dylan, he had waited a long time. Dylan, we're going to give you a quick picking response and we've got to go to Q&A. Jackson did not know what the two options on the referendum was. That's why you wouldn't answer my question. And or it was inconvenient to him. But neither of the options was whether you, Crimea could join back with with Ukraine. And the problem is that I don't care, has please for the love of God. They had already. No, we're going to the Q&A. Wait, James, let me get this last point in. I'm trying to. I never got the. Let me get one last. No. Just give me 10 seconds. Give me 10 seconds. Just find a way to fit it into one of these questions. This one coming in from Ozzie and Tox says, Putin destroyed Russia. And there is no way back from them without Putin stepping down. And Russia apologizing, European Union should join NATO. Putin will go down in history as an example of one of the worst global leaders ever save the kids. One addition. Russia should also pay reparations. I'll answer that question very easily. So Crimea had already declared its former independence. Shut the fuck up, you little bitch. Crimea had already declared formal independence before the referendum. Could they do that under the Ukrainian Constitution? They didn't need to because it was overthrown in a coup. The Ukrainian president was overthrown by the illegal coup. So the constitution is in the air and it's out of the fucking window. You fucking dumbass. The constitution matters for the, not when there's a coup that's suspended. Not when there's a coup. James, why do you keep fucking me? You let him, 10 minutes, but you keep hurting me. Let Dylan talk to them once. Do you think that a coup is throwing to the air? When there's a coup, his timetable isn't even accurate. The Declaration of Independence for Crimea took place after Dylan's literally acting like a coup doesn't violate the sovereignty of a given nation. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Just because Khoski's screaming this. The Declaration of Independence from Crimea happened after the Russian invasion. The fact that he's trying to say that it happened prior to that isn't even true. Russian troops were on the ground pushing into Crimea. The Declaration of Independence was on March 16th. What does it mean pushing into Crimea? Go ahead. Has Russian troops rolled through the area with little resistance and took over the entire fucking peninsula? I wonder why there was little resistance because they had already expressed and declared their intention to be fucking independent. Even if they had sections of your country cannot just vote themselves in that peninsula aggressively positioned to go and invade you. It doesn't work that way. Can I vote to join another debate? Can we do that? This one coming in from Can Fight says just got possibility. I never got to respond to Jackson's question about sovereignty. I want to answer it. Super short and pithy. Jackson asked me if a coup violates the nation's sovereignty it depends on who actually does the coup. If the people of said nation overthrow the government I believe they're allowed to do that. Jackson says the Yanukovych regime was morally corrupt and worked against the entrance of the people. Sorry. There you go. There was no votes for the coup, Dylan. That's not how coups work. They had an election. There wasn't even a majority that wanted to join the EU. I think we need another mute here on the Moscow Mandolin, please. So you're saying that now they have a majority? Both Dylan and Haas I've got you on mute because we do have to get the next question. That's big though. You're so good. This one again from Can Fight. It just has a long torso. It looks like Sid from Ice Age. It's the body of Sid from Ice Age. It's the body of Sid from Ice Age. We're beating it 30. Next one. Thank you very much for this question, bro. Can Fight says just got posterity. Russia just attacked the largest nuclear power plant in Europe. A violation of the Geneva Convention has a huge Nazi problem. In parentheses, Limanov literally made nozz bowls. You know I have trouble pronouncing these things. Are we allowed to answer that question? Are we allowed to answer that question? Limanov is a fucking animal. Can we answer that question? Limanov is an animal. Can we answer that question? Can we answer the question? You're putting a bat switch and you're drowning everybody else out. Your audio is just off the charts. I'm not against to respond in front of Jackson, but it's just your audio. Why is it that I feel like we should be condemning crimes against humanity and war crimes on both sides of this? That's why I support the International Criminal Court investigation into war crimes that have taken place here since 2013, which the media seems to be leaving out of the announcement of this ICC investigation and the preliminary examination into war crimes against humanity here, but the thing is if you're going to talk about war crimes and crimes against humanity and civilian casualties taking place right now in Ukraine then you better be talking about them taking place in Donetsk and Luhansk still today and the ones that have taken place there overwhelmingly in this conflict that has been waged asymmetrically by Ukraine, by the Azov battalion in particular in eastern Ukraine since 2014. People seem to leave that out. Can we all agree that that would be a good idea then? I think that Russia should pull its troops and respect Ukraine's sovereignty and then after they do that we can have an independent investigation to see if they're ready. The 25th of February protesters blocked the Crimean Parliament and expressed their will to be independent. Wait, that's not even on topic anymore. You're still rambling to put it up. Preliminary examination led by the International Criminal Court who launched the first war crimes against humanity here in this conflict. I want to actually address two things. Oh, that was a question for Destiny. Can I agree with you? That was a question for Destiny. Jackson, I want to agree with you. Destiny, who did it? Do you even know what the first war crimes or crimes against humanity committed here were? We should let independent organizations go and investigate. We should let nothing that you're saying justifies the Russian invasion. It's so easy. It's so easy. It's so easy. Go quote random U.S. diplomats that you saw on an RT post about how that proves that there was a Western involvement in a coup. What does every single international court say about Russia's annexation of Crimea? Let him answer that. Let him answer that. That's a great question. Who recognizes the Russian annexation of Crimea? That's a great question, Destiny, because the International Criminal Court has said that the crimes against humanity and war crimes started in this conflict. He doesn't have an answer. That's a great point. There it is. First, he said he was quoting a random journalist and then he quoted the International Court and he found out that and then he quoted the International Court and he fucking pivoted like a pussy. Pivoting pussy. Hey, James. Pivoting pussy. I've been attempting to do something dastardly and that's actually agree with Jackson for a second. I actually do agree that there have been a lot of war crimes actually committed in Donetsk and Luhansk and one of the biggest issues I'd point to specifically has to do with water security. I believe it was UNICEF that wrote a report about water security issues and they're caused by the war. I don't believe the best way to deal with human rights abuses on either side is to expand the conflict because now electricity, water security, all these resources are now going to be even harder to come by and not only Donetsk and Luhansk but in the rest of Ukraine as well. We've already heard about reports in Maripole and I'm trying to agree with Jackson. We already heard about reports in Maripole and other locations about critical civilian infrastructure being undermined. It's the best thing to do. Dylan, I have a question back for you. No, I don't. Shut the fuck up for a second. Shut the fuck up. Destiny, I have a question back for you. We have so many questions from chat. I agree with you. James, mute him. We have so many questions from the chat. Plummy005 says, how long does a group of people need to live in a land in order to have a claim to it? People say that the Russians in Ukraine were imported there 200 years ago but we can say the same for any group of people going back enough. Destiny, who took Maripole in 2015? Your mom. It was the Azal Battalion, you fucking idiot. Just because they're not the ladies. They were involved in one military operation. That's crazy. Of a whole city? Of a whole city? And you're saying they're marginal? I can't hear you Jackson, it's impossible. This one coming in from... I agree with what Dylan said. I condemn war crimes, crimes against humanity on both sides. And I think they should be investigated. People should be held accountable. We have to recognize who started this and you made a good point about that. The thing is though, do you not give any credit to Vladimir Putin for trying to get everyone to adhere to the Minsk Accords for years and years that would have brought him into this brutality? Nobody adhered to it. It was violated on both sides continuously. It didn't even get signed. You violated it first and you expressed it on... Both sides say both sides violated it first. You expressed it and it's still implemented. Ukraine literally said they had no intention to implement it despite signing it. It's... okay. This one coming in from... thanks for your question. Pivot Cyroy says, question for Infrared and Hinkel. If this unjustified invasion was done by Russia to protect the people in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions, will the Polaris have the details for invasion plans for Moldova? I... Based on what evidence? Where's... show me the evidence. That's actually from Belarus Lukashenko. He showed a map on screen during a speech I think two days ago where that showed invasion plans from Trenistra specifically, not Moldova. They could be contingency plans. How do you know those are invasion plans? Those could be contingency plans in case the events change. That seems to be a development that we are either not aware of or don't have the intelligence to answer completely. You know, I'm not going to be like a... If we test Putin and Putin turns out to be like a full-blown raging sociopath and he continues on and does disgusting things at a grotesque level, then, you know, of course I'm not going to defend him or anything like that. But what we have to understand is that, and I thought this is where the question was going, right now, it's not just about the Netskin-Lahansk. Putin is asking for... He's not even asking for Zelensky to step down or his government to step down. Putin is just asking for demilitarization of Ukraine, which means removal of foreign weaponry. He's asking for no NATO membership ever, a guarantee of that. And he's also asking for, yes, the ending of the slaughtering of civilians in the Netskin-Lahansk. So those are what they're fighting for. What else is he asking for? He also made requests to the United States and the European Union during the negotiations before the invasion that they ended nuclear guarantees for Eastern Europe and also pulled troops out of Eastern Europe as well. That has nothing to do with the terms of a ceasefire and peace drawing troops. That was prior to whatever happened. It was still part of the negotiation. But I want to wait. He's not going for the negotiating table asking for that right now. I'm going to stop trying James. That's for the Americans and Europeans. That's not for Zelensky. We heard Jackson saying he's not going for the negotiating table. Go ahead, Dylan. The first thing I want to say is Zelensky and the Russian government are actually negotiating right now. I think they just actually negotiated, thank goodness, like a humanitarian corridor, hopefully. I don't know if that's going to be placed in places like Kyrgyzstan and Maripole. I hope it is soon. I don't know when that's going to be implemented. They are negotiating, but that's not all. That's not going to happen, but I know that they're going to be doing a lot of things made up of Putin's government up into this. But I did want to include that. I also do want to say that you said, if he goes crazy, I would just say the attack on the nuclear facility tonight which caught it on fire is something I would be extremely concerned about. I'll answer that. First of all, I wasn't finished. Let's cut both of you off. it is literally Russia today, quote, to do it because they said it confirmed because whenever we ask people for concrete instances, yeah, whenever we ask for concrete instances of misinformation, of what we report from RT and in our recent reports, we have get nothing. Nobody's ever able to come up with any actual instance in which they're lying. Destiny fucking saw it out and raged when he saw me fucking cover RT because they were covering the humanitarian situation or 50,000 had to be evacuated from the Donbass and he literally lost his shit and fucking, he started sewing out and started crying a little bitch because this is misinformation. He wasn't actually able to point out why it was misinformation or what lies RT was telling. Keep these questions coming. Wait, can I ask you a question about that? Did Russia ever pull troops from Eastern Ukraine in accordance with the First Minsk Agreement that you guys said that they were a party to? What are you talking about? Why, Destiny, why should they adhere to any of the Minsk Agreement if Ukraine is already coming out and saying no? Ukraine never, Ukraine never, Ukraine never, Ukraine never, nobody ever adhered to the Minsk Agreement. Nobody ever adhered to it. Two things, two things, two things. Nobody ever adhered to it. Two things, two things. This is why they were a monument. These signatories to the most recent Minsk Agreement. James, what's the next question? The signatories to the most recent Minsk Agreement were between the Dalits and Lugansk and Ukraine. Russia wasn't even part of them. Second of all, as far as the Minsk Agreement, the Ukrainian government has never displayed a willingness to implement them. Okay, turn that down. There's video evidence of you being short of a mage, you know? No, there isn't. Actually, there literally isn't. Question for Jack. Do you want to bet money on it? Okay, they said if the annexation of Crimea was justified, would the annexation of Texas and other territories justified during the Mexican-American War? The difference here is that- No, no, this is in our favor. The U.S. annexed Texas in an even worse- They annexed the Mexican territories in an even worse way. Texas first declared its independence and then joined the U.S. in a similar way that Crimea declared independence and then joined Russia. Okay, were there international bodies claiming what you could or could not annex at the point when the United States was annexing territory in the West for the U.S.? What do you mean international bodies claiming what you can and cannot annex? When we say something is allowed or not allowed, usually- Oh, because the West says it's not okay, is that what you're saying? Because the West says you can't do it. When you're looking at things like the U.N., like the Soviet or, I'm sorry, Russia's party to these organizations as well. Like, what do you mean? Okay. You can't say like, did the United States do something like illegal? The U.N. is not the B.L. Endall. Or the 1800s. When these international bodies don't even exist. The U.N. is not the B.L. Endall to the recognition of sovereignty. Destiny, did it adhere to international law when there was a coup against the democratically elected government before the Crimea referendum? I don't know what international law would have justified a Russian invasion. Can you feel it being on that? You know what? I actually- You don't have an answer for that. No, no, no, no, no. Destiny, you don't care about international law. You don't care. Hey, hey, shut up. Let me finish here. Destiny, do you need pass for Gynoclemastia, because that's what you're having with us? Shut the fuck up. Gynoclemastia, Stevie. Huzz, I'm actually not surprised. I'm actually not surprised that Destiny didn't know the answer to that question. Because again, his debate partner earlier on claimed that there was illegal impeachment, even though it didn't even meet the legal qualifications of the Ukrainian Constitution. So I'm not very surprised. Destiny, would you say that you're a skinny fat? Would you say that you're a fat guy who's a little skinny? Guys, we have so many questions. I got caught a liar, though. If you call somebody, do I just want to say that- Did they get three quarters of the votes? Let me respond here. I wanted to say something, because- Destiny, there's video evidence of you having very, very right here. Destiny, respond if you was called a liar. I do want to give him a chance to respond. I think he's going to the bathroom. Dylan? All right. This one coming in from Chris Morlock says, Dylan and Destiny, do you deny that 4,000 ethnic Russian civilians, 80% of civilian deaths have been killed in the Dunbas? I mean, I don't know if I'm saying this wrong. Why do we keep using this, Jackson? This is like the R&T propaganda, really. Do you know that like 83% of civilian deaths have come from Eastern Ukraine? Yeah, the civil war is in Eastern Ukraine. It's not like there are going to be Western Ukrainians killed at Eastern Ukraine. I don't understand what the point- 80% were ethnic Russians. Yeah, because the majority of some of these places are ethnic Russian. Why is Ukraine attacking a place where the majority are resisting them? Because right now there is a civil war there where they are being funded and supported by Russia. They're trying to establish sovereignty on their own borders. Okay, Jackson, go ahead. So Ukraine can commit genocide then, right, Destiny? That's a genocide. They're targeting and trying to erase the ethnicity of a certain group of people on the phone. More or less, yes. They're trying to eliminate the Russians. I have a response to this. Destiny, Destiny. Jackson, I promise I'll come right back to you. Hold on, just bear with me, Jackson. I understand. It's, I just- He's barely gotten to talk, James. This is ridiculous. All right, hold on. I promise Jackson will come back to you, but Dylan, I know that you said you wanted to address someone called you a liar. I wanted, this is more important to me, actually. I would say I'd rather, I'm a dirty liar. But Secretary General, I want to specifically, the Secretary General of the United Nations actually commented on the accusations of genocide by the Republic of Donetsk and Luhans. And they said that there's no grounding to them. Sorry, can we repeat that? And the UN is the be-all end-all for Red Bull. I'm not saying it's a be-all end-all. No, Russia should be the be-all end-all. Did you repeat that? Dylan, can you repeat that? The Secretary General of the United Nations made that said that there is not a genocide in the Donbas. Okay, well, first of all- Former Prime Minister of Portugal. You're not- Hey, let me finish. First of all, I never made the claim. Second of all, there was a genocide. Well, I was talking about that earlier. Somebody did, but you were hot. I didn't say that. Second of all, let me finish, because Destiny made an accusation earlier. He said, why do we keep touting these RT propaganda lines that 81% of the people, civilians rather, who are dying in the Eastern Ukraine conflict are Russians, or ethnic Russians, whatever you said. That's not what I said. I said that 81% of the civilians are dying in rebel-held territory. And that's not from RT. That's what the United Nations said. So apparently you now are confused between RT and the United Nations official sources. I'm confused as to just how serious you are about this debate. Wait, so Destiny only has narratives. He doesn't have any meat and potatoes. Go ahead, Stephen. Wait, I'm sorry. The Leningrad leprechaun just threw me off. Can you repeat your question to me? Destiny, you wanna start talking about body types? You have the most gross test. Okay, my question to you is, disgusting, skinny... Destiny, my question to you is, where is A? Destiny, consider... Just fucking do it for a second. Why did you call it RT propaganda when these are United Nations figures? A, and B, why did you say that everyone here is ethnically Russian when you're in the Donbass? When I said that these are people who are dying in rebel-held territories, which is distinct from the opposite side of the gray zone? What, wait, what was the first thing said by you? Beta male bono, it looks like Sid from Ice Age. You know, he has fuck... Stop, okay. He's got gyno. He literally has gyno. No, all right, Jackson said something. Go ahead, Jackson. The Soviet shoddy over here is just destroying my ability to hear anything. Beta male bono, who is literally fucking built like fucking Sid from Ice Age, this is a long torso. Who is an... Okay, good. Let's go to Jackson. He's talking about other people. He's talking about other people. What happened to the next question? Beta male bono, it looks like an overgrowth with a beard. Chris Warlock says Dylan and Destin, oh, we got that. I could even hear it. The Russian run was screaming so much I could even fucking respond to his question. Was there a claim that the UN has said that there is an ongoing genocide in Donbass? Is that... No, you said the opposite. You said it was RT propaganda that 81% of the people died on rebel... I didn't say that the claim itself is propaganda. I'm just saying that repeating that. You said it was RT propaganda and a talking point. I can tell you... Yes, talking points. Talking points. What I'm saying is that... No, that's what you said. Do you want me to tell you what I said or you're just gonna keep screaming? I can't wait to make it funny over here. The question is why we shouldn't be surprised is the majority of people dying in a Russian ethnic majority area are going to be ethically Russian. That's not surprising. No. That's not what I said. That's not what I said. I said they're dying in rebel-held territory. The 81% are. Not that they're all ethnically Russian. What is the percentage of ethnically Russian? WV-Destiny. WV-Destiny. What is... Hey, Moscow, Munchin, quiet. Can you answer that question? Destiny. Can you... That there are two warring factions. There's a rebel-held territory and then there are the Ukrainian military and volunteer militaries warring on the other side. What I'm saying and what the United Nations is saying is that 81.4% of the civilians killed over the last three years, we don't have all the numbers, but over the last three years, died in rebel-held territory. Go ahead, Destiny. And what Bich Tits Bono doesn't understand is that people are under sovereignty. I want to hear his answer. I want to hear his answer. Just like a man has a wife and a picture. Paz, I want to hear his answer. I can't. The tiny tanky is too much for me. I just can't hear anything. Yeah, yeah. Bich Tits Bono doesn't... And the people want to defend their land. Just like a man wants to defend his wife from not... Let's talk about Stephen's body later. Dink, Prul, but does Hodg think we don't realize that whenever he is getting owned on a... Okay, never mind. Sorry about that. Okay, you're a beta male and you think getting owned is from a fucking 32-year-old StarCraft player who literally has nothing going, fucking going for him in life. Yeah, yeah. A fucking 32-year-old grown man StarCraft player with fucking gynecomastia. Okay, this one from Rihann says, Literally don't like an 11-year-old son. Hold on, Haas, come on. Hold on to that comment. This one coming in from Irvin says, Irvin Lachman says, Russia has the worst human trafficking problem of any country on earth, are Haas and Jackson pro-child sex trafficking. Uh-oh. Are Destiny and Dylan Burns pro-lowering the age of consent to 16? Because... As Destiny's friend, Mr. Girl, Destiny has a pedophile community. All right, let's go to the next one. Louis Rivera. He defends the pedophile. This one from Louis Ramirez and Jackson. Do you want to deeply believe in chemical weapons design to only target people with, quote, Russian genes? Pedal DGG. No. Go ahead, Jackson. Literally never heard that. Nobody heard that. Nobody heard it. It's impossible. Jackson, do you believe in chemical weapons designed to only target people with, quote, unquote, Russian genes? Really? That's basic. When did I say that? It's completely irrelevant and immaterial to... It's here because even if... So Jackson... I don't think they even said you said it. Jackson never... I'm just asking them the question. I think even Destiny and Dylan would admit that I never said that in the debate, and though they don't probably watch my streams, I can tell you I've never said that in my life. No, I don't... You disavow when Haas said it, that you disavow with Kremlin Greenland? He doesn't have to disavow it. He just isn't making the affirmative. See, you disavow. Bono, you little fucking bitch. You fucking bitch. Well, can I ask him then? Do you find the claim believable? He's fucking insane. It's his wife. I think. I ought to admit. I can't hear you. I can't. I'm sorry. I want to know if you support the... How could I insult this statement? What are you doing? How could I... He's... He's exhausting. I think... How could I insult a... ...old... ...his child? Go ahead, Dylan. I'm sorry you're so weighted down this debate, Jackson. I think that there are China and Russia at the United Nations have both expressed their concerns over chemical labs in Ukraine that get U.S. funding. There's several of them, but we don't really know what's going on there. And I think it would be... I don't think we can jump to conclusions as to what's happening there, except for what Russia and China have both said when they've expressed their concerns. It's not relevant at all. This is what's going on here, Rob. Do appreciate your question. Cedar Skyward says what... 32-year-old... ...says 32-year-old. Just so the audience knows what's happening, James is right-click-meaning him and Haz is spam-right-click-unmeaning so that he can keep screaming into the microphone. This is what's going on here. You can't hide... You can't hide... ...of knowing... ...and the pain of knowing... ...and... ...you can't... ...be in with your... ...friend. We all... In bread, red! We need you to shut the fuck up so we can finish the Q&A, dude. No, you're in pain, Destiny. We're coming in from... ...okay. This is a thank you. So, it's been so hard. Bro, you called me this dark-graph tupper here, but you got like 400 ATMs smashing the fucking un-beam on your fucking mind. You can't hide the pain. This is what's coming. We need... ...to get fucking RSI, dude. You gotta slow down. This one coming in from... Cedar says, why are... ...what are the panelists' thoughts on, quote, third... Is this a... I hope this isn't a troll. On third whole theater... No, that's... Okay, never mind. Destiny, laugh through the pain. Laugh through the pain of knowing... This one's going over a crisp four-lot. Wait, was that three-hole theory? Wait, what did that have to do with? Laugh through the pain, Destiny. Go ahead, Laugh. No, no, the three holes, it refers to the tri-polar vacuum left behind by the three nuclear powers, the United Kingdom, the United States. Destiny, you have fucking nothing but a fucking block. Destiny, you have no fucking substance. No meat and potatoes you hide behind your left. I can see the pain in your eyes, Bono. I can see the pain in your eyes. Can I just say... Can I just say, you know who else doesn't have meat and potatoes? Your child! Your child didn't... Do you know who else... ...has meat and potatoes? Did he say... You know who... But he was not left to do it like you. You know who else doesn't have meat and potatoes? The Russian soldiers in Ukraine right now. Man, that's a lot of food shortage. Yeah, that's fake. Fake news, dude. Okay, that's it. Okay, like... I can't hear anything. I don't have power. This one coming in from... Show any proof. Come on, Oz, how do you have so much candy? I was like... Show any proof. Show the proof. Says... Stan says, does Oz still think the Donbass region is in the north of Ukraine? I never fucking said that in the first place. Shut the fuck up. Fucking DGG petals. Okay, this one coming in from Konstantin. Why does the East European countries... Why do the East European countries beg to be a part of NATO? Every time the Russians start shelling a foreign city, it's almost as if Russian aggression is driving countries to join NATO. It's almost as if those countries are called by far-right nationalists. Go ahead. It's almost as if every single time the West leads a coup or regime change operations in a central or Eastern European country, they make great strides either in one of the four main steps in joining NATO when they have this coup government in place. Have you ever noticed that? I just want to say we didn't establish that it was a US led coup. We certainly didn't establish that. We more than established that. With five billion... Just for the record, Ukraine wasn't going to join NATO until the Crimean invasion happened. What? That statement changed. Oh, you want a debate about that? We have evidence for the contrary. The Prime Minister literally said... That's just Bono. We have evidence for the contrary. Literally said they were not... They were not... Wait, wait, wait. Destiny, destiny. Do you know the four steps to join NATO for Russia? Being given the green light by NATO to join... Bless me, bless me, bless me, bless me. ...is them having an intent of joining... Bless me. The evidence... Haas, haas, haas. Wait, I'm curious. I want to hear Destiny's thoughts on this. Gotta pull back. First of all, do you know the four steps in joining NATO and how many of those steps Ukraine has achieved? And also, do you know what NATO said about Ukraine membership at the 2008 Bucharest before the Crimean referendum? I don't care if they were given the green light in 2008. Yatsenyuk literally said... You just said they never tried to... ...giving the green light, but they didn't have an intent... Let them finish. After the coup, the prime minister literally said that there were no plans on the table to join NATO. He literally said that. That was his state position. He literally said that. He literally said that position. That changed once Russia invaded and annexed illegally the Crimean Peninsula. And that's why... And the other statements that countries have made about joining NATO have also changed as Russia has increased its aggression. That's why countries like Finland and Sweden are considering joining NATO, which, given what Russia is doing, seems to be pretty fair. Yeah, because Russia's gonna... Sweden, shut the fuck up. I'll respond to that. I'll respond to that. First of all, in 2008 at the Bucharest summit, NATO declared that Ukraine could become a member state of NATO upon further deliberations and accession talks. But what I do want to say is you said that after the 2014 coup, they had no intent to join NATO. In 2017, the Ukrainian parliament adopted legislation reinstating membership in NATO as a strategic foreign and security policy. What happened between 2014 and 2017? Why would they want to join NATO in 2017? In 2019, of course... And why would they want to join NATO in 2017? Why would they want to join NATO in 2019? You sound like a little bitch. Okay. You've always sounded... No, no, wait. Yeah, what? Why would they want to join NATO in 2017 and in 2019? What happened? And what happened? What happened after 2014 in eastern Ukraine? We could go there, too. No, let's go exactly to what I said. Do you deny that the Prime Minister literally said that they would not... What happened at the trade union hall massacre? Okay, yeah. Pivot, pivot, pivot. Okay. You're the one pivoting. I'm not pivoting. I did it very quickly. Destiny, what was my done about? What was the fucking my done about? They wanted to fucking join NATO, you dumb fuck. That was before any fucking crime. No, it wasn't about joining NATO. It was about the EU and NATO as a whole. They wanted to turn... It was an anti-Russian fucking movement. They has had every intention to join NATO by then. It was not about joining NATO. It was about European Union trade deals. It was about joining the West in general. Can you mute the holiday more hobbit again, please? It was about joining... It was about that... There's two things I want to... That deep, breasted me. I want to keep that deep, breasted me. James, I'm trying so hard, man. Laugh please. Laugh through the pain. Destiny. Hey, James! Wait, it was fine for Destiny. No, Destiny or Dillon. But I never have to say I've been doing it. Wait, wait, wait. You don't knew him when he insults me, but you're only me. Honestly, you're talking too long. You don't want me to... Okay, so this is two things I want to... You don't knew him when he insults me. I'm going to go fucking beat my... I'm not insulting you right now. I'm trying to... I'm trying to say something. If we were insulting you, okay, Vladimir the Virgin, we'd be asking you about three-hole theory. I'm not high enough for this. Okay, so I would like to say that... So the year of might on protest was... It started because Yanukovych pulled out of negotiations to join the EU. And then once the protest movement started, then it expanded to anti-corruption and a lot of other issues as well. And there were people on the ground, not all of them. The Euromite protests were extremely diverse. But some of them did want to join NATO, but that doesn't mean it started. Because of that, it started once Yanukovych pulled out of EU negotiations. And the second thing I wanted to bring up about NATO was that after the Russian invasion, the regime changed where they started in Ukraine. Now, Finland, the first time in human history, the majority of Finnish people want to join NATO. Putin has gifted NATO something. He has gifted them legitimacy in the modern age, where there was tons of people like the Finns. He's like, I don't know about joining this NATO thing. Why does it even exist? Now, why do you... And they're gonna put nukes in Venezuela. Good luck with that. Russia's gonna put nukes in Venezuela. Good luck with it. What is that? You expand NATO to Finland, then Russia's gonna make military packs with Cuba and Venezuela all over the fucking world against the US empire. Good luck with that. Russia can't even get its four-wheeled trucks into fucking Eastern Ukraine. I don't think... Oh, really? Where's the evidence for that? Do you have any evidence for that? There's no fucking proof of that. There's a logistical disaster. It's all fucking made up on Twitter. Ash or Turk, fake news. We've depunked it on my stream several fucking times. It's not fucking true. Hey, Destiny, I know you like having your mouth open because you like sewing out. Of tire... I could send you photos of tire rot. Keep opening your mouth, please. Sew... Sew a mouth. Can we mute this Redditor's microphone? Oh, keep it up. Haas, I'm gonna ask, if you want, I could send you pictures of tire rot amongst Russia. Keep opening. Okay. Pictures of red. Tire rot. You know, when... If you don't do proper maintenance on trucks, the tires will rot out, and that's a huge issue. Yeah, go ahead. Show us the proof. Show us the widespread logistical disaster. Well, I'm not saying logistics. I'm talking about tire rot right now. Logistics is another issue. Show us the widespread tire rot. The widespread tire? I can give you examples of tire rot, but until we find out and do a proper investigation, we're not gonna have... Oh, there's tire rot on all the trucks. Because there's no fucking failure. No, no, you're not listening. If any of these trucks... If any of the vehicles invading Ukraine is experiencing tire rot, that means proper maintenance was not done on those vehicles. If any of them... Yes, if any of them. Because you... When you talk about maintenance... No, when you do maintenance on these vehicles, you don't do it like one at a time. You do maintenance, like you circle maintenance. If there's a... Okay, I'm not gonna... I give up. James, why are you mooting me? I'm talking when you're... I mean, sorry, not jazz. Because you never give me a chance to say anything. You're not dealing in Destiny Talk this whole fucking time, and I didn't get to say shit. He's the Moscow... He's the Moscow... He was on therapy here. Now, it doesn't fucking mean anything. Well, okay. I want to say thanks, folks, so much for tuning in. You're a fucking bias moderator, James. You're a bias fucking moderator. You have been... You keep fucking insulting me, talking over me. You didn't mute him once. You didn't mute this little fucking good-knowing once. This is what he did in Destiny Talk. You didn't mute the Ganon Destiny once. You muted me multiple times. Yeah, I was muted. Can we actually prove, James? Not once. James, James, real talk. Can you prove right now that you haven't received any of that $5 billion that was marked to you, Crane? Are you part of the ante? Hey, hey, hey, hey, passive-aggressive dogs. Only bitch-ass fucking pedo nerds find funny. Shit the fuck up, little bitch. Nobody fucking has your sense of humor except the pedos like Mr. Girl. Nobody shares your fucking passive-aggressive, fast-talking, mumbling, stumbling, sense of fucking stalker activity, little bitch. You fucking laughing, Destiny, passive-aggressive dog. Destiny, let me air your dirty laundry, Destiny, because I found out a lot of things about you, Destiny. Let me air your dirty laundry, my dog. Please do it, please. Yeah, let me air your dirty laundry, Destiny, you motherfucker. Want to say, folks, thanks so much for tuning in. Our guests are linked in the description, and want to say thank you so much for all of your super chats. We've raised hundreds of dollars tonight for worldwide orphans, which is the charity watchdog evaluation is a- Bitch, tits, bono, bitch, tits, bono. That bitch dad, Brestony, that bitch dad, Brestony. Are you going to let Ivan the incel over here make fun of me like this, James? Destiny, oh, Destiny, you literally let your wife get sleep with other men. You fucking living in salt, you're a 32-year-old cock, and you're talking about incels? You're talking about incels when you're a literal cock? Destiny, you fell- OK, why don't you say thanks to everybody? Destiny, you girls, you failed to get with talk to me, little bitch. Please give me some names, dude. Give us anything other reasonable from the- The list is too long. I'm like, thanks, everybody. And we'll see you in the next debate. Take care, everybody. And thanks so much for your donation. There's no bonus round. We'll put the receipt on the social tab in the YouTube social community tab. Want to say thanks so much. And that's something that no matter where we stand on the war, that's something we all agree on is it's a good cause helping out orphans around the world. And so, again, we'll share that donation receipt on the YouTube social page. Thanks, everybody. And we'll see you next time. It's Tidd's Bonnel. Fuck it, lost.