 Hello and welcome to NewsClick. Today we have with us Professor Ajaz Ahmad and we'll discuss the recent meeting between the two presidents of the Koreas. Ajaz, the discussions that have happened between the two Korean presidents, President Kim and President Moon, do you think this would actually mean a new correlation of forces in the Koreas and does it mean that the United States is no longer the key player in these discussions? Well, it certainly will start a new process, I believe. I think there are many aspects of it that are actually not being discussed in public most of the time. It is a new step towards a much more comprehensive political economic cooperation between the two parts of Korea and increasing integration between them. Yes, they talked about the Korean nation and the integration etc. That's right, this is very interesting that in all the talks around and the communique itself, they talk constantly of Koreans, the whole nation, national reconciliation etc. So this is the process that became visible to the rest of the world during the Olympics when the two teams walked under one flag and so on and so forth. But now just part of the declaration that this is a process for a long term reconciliation and unification. So far as the US is concerned, probably just the size of the US and the historic role that it has played in the region still is very important. They are talking very interestingly, the communique envisions a tripartite meeting between the two Koreas and the United States. And possibly a quadrilateral one with China, which is going back to the Korean war. The reason why China has to be there and all that. But I think what happened is that the US did not quite recognize the process that had been going on in Korea and what its implications were that President Moon had been elected at a time when the previous government had been discredited massively because of its corruptions this, that and the other. So he came in with a remarkable degree of authority and he could ignore that the opposition and carry on with the policies that he has long believed in. And the policy that he is pursuing is in fact too prompt. One is the old one for a bilateral relationship with North Korea, leading eventually to denuclearization, demilitarization, unification and so on and so forth. But also the integration of the two Koreas in the newly emerging economic relationships in the world, basically with China and Russia. So that in September actually both the Koreas had gone to Vladivostok where the South Koreans had talked about seven bridges of various sources. South Korea is the fifth largest exporting economy in the world. So it has to find ways to get integrated into that. And for one thing this new plan for the trans-Korean railway that we connect the Korean railway with the Trans-Siberian railway etc etc is part of what is envisioned for the future in terms of economic integration of the two. The Putin has been talking about Russian gas pipelines coming through the two Koreas and supplying Russian gas to Japan etc. This is a much bigger economic project of integration of the region which will involve the economic integration of the two Koreas and an independent initiative, independent of the United States so far as the initiative is concerned. My sense is that the pace of it has been partly the pace of what has happened more recently has been affected by the great belligerence that Trump had been showing recently partly because he is just prone to bluster partly because his presidency is collapsing inside the country and therefore you want to be belligerent somewhere else, strikes against Syria, threatening to bring down the deal with Iran and then all this bluster about North Korea and the communique very directly says we have agreed that there shall never be a war again. Now here is the two questions I have for you on this. One is the fact that the American strategist shall be saying and what we call the crazies last time we have now termed themselves as neocons they have been saying if we need to sacrifice South Korea so be it in order to stop North Korea's ability to strike the United States. Now that if for a South Korean is obviously going to be a great concern sacrifice for US strategic interests. The second part of it and this is something that I really think that we should also look at is South Korea has actually still a status of being a half colony of the United States military, militarily the US station there it controls its army officially South Korean army is still controlled by the United States so is it unlike North Korea which is no longer under shall be say direct control if it ever was. Independent part of Korea. So this is the only independent part of Korea. So in that sense the unification is also a removal of occupation from South Korea. Well that is part of what is what the the communique seems to be implying and some remarks of Kim and Moon both of them on the sides that are being reported. You know I mean if you read the implications of it we should you know the thing of denuclearized Korea demilitarized for peace and so on and so forth it is simply not possible unless Americans withdraw their troops I mean Americans will have to withdraw their nuclear assets from the region as a whole including Japan at the nuclearization everything it's everybody thinks it's about South about North Korea it is not South Korea has a very extensive nuclear program so does Japan and Americans have nuclear assets in the region 30,000 troops in Korea 35 whatever it is some 40,000 in Japan so it's a major military presence you cannot have peace without the withdrawal of all that I think what is basically being done is to start this process of negotiation out American belligerence we will do this we'll do that etc etc to build towards this process of trilateral and quadrilateral and then six involved and so on as it goes on the economic integration I think is going to grow a base so it's a combination of various issues I think what North Koreans have also understood is that they have to gain enormously by becoming a part of this and some kind of arrangement can be reached for a period of time when they coexist with separate countries but increasingly integrate their external economies and so on and so forth the two sides have their own systems etc etc and become a part of that much larger so I think the Russians that Putin said that you can have you know diplomatic pressure sanctions is diplomatic pressure but anything more than that is a step towards war and suicide etc so I think what is going on is the process of economic integration of the region in which Americans again do not realize that as a great as an economic power they're on the decline South Korea is the fifth largest exporting economy in the world these decisions are being made between Russia China and South Korea and North Korea seems to have decided to join the game rather than the degree of isolation in which it has lived and whatever they do in terms of their you know closing this site or that site or something it will be very slow and they're under the Chinese you know security umbrella so you know so I think Americans are really really caught and it's the it's the South and South Korean and North Korean understanding reached in conjunction with Russia and China that has changed again so you how do you read the upcoming Trump and Kim's summit do you think there's much I would love to fly on the world do you think Trump will declare victory that his bluster has worked that's why North Korea has come and to the table and give agree to de-nuclearize and declare victory and go home That is how the American media is playing it already they were so stunned by all this that for two or three days there was really no coverage and then started with this how Trump's pressure has worked and brought Kim to the negotiating table and etc etc and the South Koreans are such smooth you know diplomats they're giving Americans the credit you know and so on and whether or not Kim will also have that sort of sophistication I don't know he was educated in sweet schools and so on so I'm quite sure and he's a Korean anyway so he may have just as much sophistication as Moon does but that's how the game is going to be played they will save a Trump's face the good East Asians they know how to save other people's face in order to carry on with what they need to do so just last word on this so this is indeed a breakthrough in the world for peace I think it's a great breakthrough it's a great breakthrough and it's astonishing it's astonishing how rapidly it has come it has taken about six months of at least from what we what has been visible to us in terms of you know international conferences the other that we can watch six months or so of this sort of thing and suddenly a breakthrough of this order the process is going to be very long you know there is no this is a very very complicated issue and American pride and power are involved in this on a very very great scale it's a question of how quickly Japan is willing to accept all this my fear is that Japan is right now ruled by such a very right wing chauvinist dispensation that they may not you know facilitate the process as much as that they may be very obstructive they can play the spoiler as much as possible they can play the spoilers but I think that it will only slow down the process of you know really military de-escalation and things of that sort there is no peace treaty with the US and unless there is a peace treaty with the US there can't be a peace treaty between the two couriers they can have you know real peace agreements and all kinds of peace and so on so in that sense that process is going to be slow and it is hazardous but I think it creates the opportunity for normalization in the real life of the two couriers thank you very much Ajahs for being with us we'll come back to you on this and other international issues as well as issues of shall we say India, Pakistan, China United States and so on yes indeed yes this is all the time we have for news click today do keep watching news click and do visit our website