 This program is brought to you by Cable Franchise Vs and generous donations from viewers like you. I'm going to start by just the usual statement. We are allowed to meet virtually. Governor Baker's March 12th order. I will call each counselor by name. They can hear me and we can hear them and ask them to unmute their microphone and then mute it again after saying present. So, let's start with. Sean Elm Elm. Alyssa Brewer. Present. Kathy Angelus. Present. Darcy Dumont. Present. Lynn Griezmer is present. Mandy Johanicki. Present. Dorothy Pan. Evan Ross is absent tonight. George Ryan. Present. Kathy Shane, we expect to join us. Steve Schreiber. Present. Andy Steinberg. Present. And Sarah Schwartz is not able to be with us tonight. Seeing that we have a quorum of the council. I'm calling this July 13th meeting to order at 606. Lynn, would you please proceed to call the library trustees to order. Thanks, Lynn. We'll do. And thank you to the town council for agreeing to this joint meeting. Tammy Ely. Present. Alex Lefebvre. Present. Robert Pam. Present. Lee Edwards. Present. Chris Hoffman. Present. And Austin Sarad, I'm present. So we are the library trustees are in order and ready to meet at 606. Great. This meeting includes audio, video, and is available live on Amherst media. It is also being recorded. There is no chat room for this meeting as it is a webinar. You have technical issues. If you are either on the library trustees or if you are on the council, please let us know by letting Sharon or Austin know, or in my case, letting me or Athena know, and we will make sure that we note that and try to get reconnected as soon as possible. There is information that was shown on the screen earlier on how to connect. We will continue. We will proceed from there. Tonight we have an opportunity to hear expert opinion on one of the several outstanding questions regarding the Jones library. Quite simply, the question is what will it cost to repair the Jones library. This question was raised during joint capital planning committee meetings as far back as 2017, which led to the first repair quote. But that did not include accessibility costs often tripped by a magic number of $5,000,000, or actually maybe less. It was discussed again in 2018 and in 2019. It was regularly heard during the capital project listening sessions held in December of 2019. Clearly it is a question that precedes any other questions down the road. Therefore I asked the Jones library trustees to provide us with an answer and to include in their estimate the cost of spreading it over more than one year. With their consultants at Cune Riddle working with Western builders, they are now able to provide us with the answer. This is a presentation about repairing the Jones library, which by the very nature of its extensiveness of those repairs trips the Americans with disabilities act regarding accessibility. Tonight's agenda does not include the following, and therefore these questions are not on the table tonight. What will it cost to renovate, not repair, renovate the existing library? What would it cost to rearrange the space in the existing library? We will not be discussing what it would cost to make the Jones library more sustainable. And we will not be discussing what it would cost to expand the programming of the Jones library. Most importantly is not about what the town council will do if and when the board Massachusetts Board of Library commissioners offers us a construction grant requiring significant town match and Jones library fundraising. So none of those are on the table tonight. We know these questions are out there, but in the hour we are able to devote to this presentation, we are not going to discuss any of those issues. As we have additional information, we will have those discussions, but not at this point. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to Austin and I believe you are going to have Alon Tierney from Cune-Ribble present. Thank you, Lynn. And again, I appreciate the opportunity to meet with the town council and to discuss the repair estimate. As you all know, this is really the second step of the examination of the repair of the possible repair of the Jones library in 2017. We received an estimate from Western builders of nine and a half million dollars for the repair of the Jones, including among other things, upgrading and dealing with the serious problems in our mechanical, electrical and plumbing unit. Those problems are so severe, they happen at the Jones library every day. We have today encountered another one, a leakage in the HVAC system, which has done damage in special collections. Following up on that and in response to the discussions that Lynn summarized, we asked Cune-Ribble to build on the Western builders estimates and to look at, in addition to those costs, what it would cost to make the library accessible. And by accessible, we meant to meet the requirements of federal and state law. And what Alon is going to talk to you about tonight is the results of the Cune-Ribble study. I want to say great thanks to Alon and Cune-Ribble for what I think is very valuable and good work. Alon. Thank you, Austin. And thank you everyone for coming to this meeting tonight. I'm going to show a series of slides, only 10. That's a brief summary of the study that we did. I'm going to try to share my screen now. Can everyone see my screen? Yes. Thank you. Okay. So, let's see if I can get it to work. So just a little bit about Cune-Ribble, whoops, we'll go through that quickly. I'm Alon Tierney. I am president of Cune-Ribble Architects. I did this study in conjunction with one of my senior project managers, Liv Wyatt. Cune-Ribble Architects has been in Amherst since 1988 founded by John Cune and Chris Riddle. And I became president in 2018 along with my two partners, Charles Roberts and Jonathan Salvon. So let me back up a little bit because I seem to have jumped forward. Okay. I apologize. There's a delay. So why an accessibility study? Something has already been mentioned about that by both Lynn and Austin. In 2017, Western builders provided an existing building evaluation and identified required building repairs. And those repairs focused on the following. Replace the large skylight in the center of the building. Replace the south elevator, which is small and in need of repair. Some interior improvements such as replacing carpeting, painting, et cetera. Mechanical, electrical and plumbing improvements were the largest items, structural improvements, which went along with some of those mechanical, electrical and plumbing improvements and exterior improvements. So the envelope of the building, the masonry windows, doors, et cetera. Their review, Western builders review did not take into account many of the accessibility upgrades that would be required based on those associated costs. So the purpose of this study was to identify what would be required. If they move forward, if the Jones library moved forward with some of those repairs. And hopefully this study is giving you the information that you need in order to look at what is the cost required. To do the building repairs versus the cost for a whole building. Renovation addition as proposed by fine gold. Okay. So accessibility regulations. Lynn mentioned that there's the ADA or the Americans with disabilities act. That is a federal civil rights legislation. Intended to reduce physical barriers to people with disabilities. As a civil rights legislation enforcement is via litigation, not by the local building inspector. Massachusetts has its own set of accessibility regulations, which is called the Massachusetts architectural access board regulations. We often refer to it as MAAB. And it is part of the building code and enforced by the local building inspector. The requirements of the Massachusetts regulation is very similar to the ADA. And in some cases it's more stringent. We primarily focused on the Massachusetts architectural access board requirements as it is something that is triggered when you do any type of construction. And I'll explain a little bit more about that. I did want to mention that for existing and especially historic buildings, there is a variance process for certain. Features that you may be able to avoid doing because it's a historic building. But this particular study did not take that into account. It's a much larger process. So the accessibility trigger. The Massachusetts architectural access board code states that regarding existing buildings, renovations or additions. If the work performed, including the exacted work and exempted work, the entire building is required to comply with 521 CMR, which is the Massachusetts architectural access board. So the Jones library is assessed by the town of Amherst at 19 million $196,000. And 30% of the buildings that are in the building. The entire building is required to comply with 521 CMR, which is the Massachusetts architectural access board. So the Jones library is assessed by the town of Amherst at 19 million $196,000. And 30% of that value is $5,758,800. So that's the trigger. So what did we do with respect to this study? Cune rule architects, myself and live Wyatt, did a walkthrough of the building live actually spent several days going through the building, photographing, looking at all the various details, including the building, which are required to be accessible and identified them on drawings. And then we created task two, which was the accessibility scope of work narrative. So we identified all of the issues that needed to be repaired. If that trigger was triggered. And that scope of work was then used along with the drawings. By Western builders to create a cost estimate. And then we also created a code review for the mass. Massachusetts architectural access board. So just going through the, all the regulations and identifying which ones were applicable to this particular project. So all of those documents were delivered to Western builders. We discussed with them what we had found. And they prepared a cost estimate based on the proposed repairs that we then compiled all of those documents together and had several meetings throughout this process. We met initially with the Jones library representatives to scope of work narrative accessibility code review and confirm with them if they had any questions about it. And then we reviewed that together with Western builders. We then received the cost estimates back and reviewed that again with Jones library representatives. We then compiled the entire study document. And the following slides are just a very brief summary of that. When we were preparing the study, the Jones library board of trustees requested that we review if the proposed work could be performed in phases, which is what Lynn had mentioned. And at what point the value of the work would require full compliance with the access code. In addition, they asked us to look at what is the most logical flow of work based on discrete construction projects. So which ones could you do without triggering other ones? What work has the highest priority based on the age of the systems or deterioration of the building systems? What is the most cost effective way to approach the phases? And what if any work could be completed while the library remains occupied? So we reviewed this with Western builders as contractors. They could help us think about all of these questions. Some of the questions in terms of priority is really the knowledge of the Jones library in terms of how old the systems are and the amount of maintenance that they're doing regularly on the systems. Ultimately we looked at two different options. First option is what we like to call the lowest cost first. So how can we do these projects without triggering the accessibility code? And what are the sort of the discrete projects that would make sense to do together? And this is based on conversations with Western builders. So I don't know if you can see my cursor on the screen. Yes, okay. So phase one or the first year, year 2021 would include replacing the skylight and the south elevator. The design fees that would be required is about 12%. That's typical for a historic renovation. The library would need to be closed for 30 weeks and move out, which would cost $650,000. That number was taken from Feingold Alexander's estimates for relocating the library. And that phase total then would be about $2.3 million. Figuring that you'd need to take a break between projects, the next project we proposed would be the exterior improvements. There would be three years worth of escalation at 4%. So the cost, the construction cost would be a little over $2 million. About 26 weeks. Because it's just exterior work, you would not have to move out of the library. There would be design fees included. And the total for that phase would be 2.26. So we haven't triggered the 5.758 million yet. In those two phases, but phase three would require triggering all of those items. And these items, interior improvement, MEP systems, structural improvements are all linked together. You can't really do those projects separately. Without a lot of additional cost. So once you include the interior improvements, the MEP systems and the structural improvements that automatically triggers the accessibility improvements. And this number, the 1.194. 886. That is the cost of. The discovery in this study. So the total for that is 8.3 million plus five years of escalation is close to 1.8 million. The total for phase three would be about 10 million. This would be a full year project. And it would require again design fees and moving out of the library and relocating. And we figured five years down the road, there'd also be escalation on that cost. And so we're at 12 million point two. Looking at all of these projects to complete all of these repairs, you'd end up at almost $17 million. The next option that we looked at was. Priority first, what's most important? What's the work that needs to happen? What's the work that needs to happen? The work that needs to happen is the first and our understanding that the MEP systems are the systems that are really failing and need attention. And as I said earlier, the MEP systems are. Are linked with the structural systems and the interior. Upgrades. And once you spend, start spending that money, you're already doing it. You're already investing in the process of the maintenance. And part of the accessibility improvements would also require replacing the south elevator. And then once you've done all of that other interior work, it doesn't really make sense to do the skylight separately later on. So this really becomes a. Two phase project, the first phase being all of the interior work. because it'll take more time to complete all of the design work would come to $10.2 million. Add in design fees and moving out and you're up to a little over $12 million. However, in this scheme, you're only moving out once because the second phase of work done three years or two years later would just be the exterior improvements and the library can remain occupied during that work. In summary, both of these options would bring the building into full compliance and provide the building with new systems which would last 25 to 50 years before systems would require replacement again. These repair projects would not increase the library space or modify or improve the spaces in the library. The library would essentially function as it is currently functioning. This is just about the repairs. That's my summary of our study and I don't know if we open up to questions. I'll go back to Lynn at this point or Austin. Thank you, Elan. Yeah. Lynn. Thank you. Go ahead. We're gonna open up to questions. Elan, you may at some point have to bring the two charts back up depending on questions but we're going to start with questions from the town council and the first hand up is Steve Schreiber. Thank you, Elan. Hi, Elan. So I've watched the presentation that you gave to the board of trustees and they also watched the sustainability committee meeting in which the topic of the pandemic was brought up. So I guess I'll ask it now, being the first question asked for is, well, I guess I really have two questions. So one is in particular regarding the MEP that does the mechanical electrical plumbing. So nobody knows what the best science is in dealing with the viruses. So I'm just curious about what your opinion is or may there be extra costs or may there be a different way of thinking about the mechanical part of this in light of really our new concerns or new different kinds of concerns about indoor air quality. And then I guess I have a second question that's also related to the pandemic which has to do with a value statement. So one thing you did not cover is whether or not this is worth it. So in other words, what we're getting is a library that's the same as it is, but just with new systems in it. And so you as an architect, you're also looking at this as when you talk to your clients, you're talking to them whether or not it would be worth putting all this money in when you're just getting the same. And then particularly in the light of the, so I looked at all the diagrams in the report that you prepared and there's diagrams of the conference rooms. And I have to confess that I shuddered a little bit because those rooms are very small, very crowded. The stacks are currently close together. I know that ADA would require them to be further apart. But I'm just wondering if you're willing to comment on either of those of the mechanical and then just overall value as to whether or not this is worth it. Aileen, Elon, A-lon, please stick to the first question and then we'll go to the second. Okay, so the first question about the current COVID crisis and air quality, first of all, that was not part of the study. In fact, we started the study right before everything fell apart, I guess. What I will say is that it's all very new and the HVAC experts are figuring it out and I can't really speak to that personally other than to say that I am sure in the coming year there will be a lot of information about that coming out. So the second question, is it worth it? Intentionally, this study was meant to be just looking at the numbers and not about the values. And really, I think the point of this is to provide you with just the dollar values and it's really up to you as a town to make a decision about how does one value the other? And I'm sure that Feingold Alexander would say that libraries are being used very differently now and in the future than they were in the past. So I'm not going to answer the question. Kathy, you have your hand up. Yes, and I apologize for joining late. Somehow I put the wrong time in my calendar. So if this is a repeat, just stop me. As you looked at, you build on Steve's question as you looked at the way spaces be used currently it configured. And I know you, because in the report you periodically talk about something in the Feingold Alexander report. Did you have any sense of how it could be reconfigured or do you know whether there are space, space, and I don't mean outer space. I mean library space consultants who can do what people with old houses often have them do is say, if you moved this to here. For example, in FAA's design, special collections is moved to a different part of the old building and thinking about children. Did you have any impression of that or I know you weren't asked to do it but in terms of walk around or thinking about it? That's a difficult question to answer because as architects we walk into space and are constantly thinking about how it's impacting us and how it might be impacting others. But the reality is that this study, we were asked specifically just to look at the existing conditions and the accessibility of the existing conditions. And it's a dangerous slope. Once you start to tinker around and think about how the space could be better organized and that is a much larger study. So as hard as it is as architects to not try to think about how to reorganize the space we had to intentionally not do that. Otherwise we would just spiral down into that rabbit hole and that's a much larger scope of services. But it is a scope of services that architects can do. Of course, just like renovating your home and thinking about where the kitchen and dining room are and maybe flipping them is better. That is absolutely something that architects do and especially architects that specialize in libraries. Can I just build on one part of that for the special collections? The current location with an open door that makes it hard to do climate control. Does what you propose solve that problem? No, all of the mechanical systems that were reviewed by Western builders we just built off of that study that was previously done in 2017. We did not review or reevaluate the study that they have proposed and it's my understanding that the special collections piece was not reviewed thoroughly. So I think that's still an issue that needs to be considered. Thank you. Lynn, may I just say, Kathy's questions are very good one. When we go into the next phase of conversations with the town council, I think it'll be very helpful for all of us to review actually what the Board of Trustees did to get us to this point. And of course, one of the things that we did was we examined the question of what we could do with the existing space. And we concluded at the time that we could not with the existing space accommodate the program of the library. So when the time comes, I think it'll be very helpful for all of us to review those studies and to kind of walk through the evolution of why it is that the Board of Trustees found that we could not do what needed to be done with the existing space. Okay, thank you. Dorothy, you have your hand up. My question is, what are we supposed to do with this? I know that's a serious question. Do you want me to answer it? You can go ahead and... So the point of the study was to look at how much it would cost to make these repairs in conjunction with the required accessibility upgrades or repairs. And I think the idea is to go off of Steve's comments and weigh the value of that. Just repairing the building costs X amount of dollars. Doing the renovation expansion costs X amount of dollars. What is the value to you as a community? Okay. Are there other questions from the council at this time? Pat, the Angeles. Given that there would be accessibility on all of the floors, after if we chose this option one or two, doesn't that open up some space in the library that hasn't really been able to be used very well? And does it also give us the option to do something like use the community room differently or to move administrative offices? It does seem like there should be some flexibility if we have accessibility throughout the building. That's a possibility, but it doesn't expand the space or move any walls or change any of the layout. This study did not look at that. I understand that. Anything else, Pat, at this time? Not right this second. Okay. Darcy. Yeah, I'm just interested in knowing if you have an opinion about regular maintenance and whether the fact that we've been deferring maintenance has actually raised the cost of the potential repairs. I don't know that it's raised the cost. It perhaps has quickened the need to make the repairs. Obviously, if you take care of an old car and change its oil every month or every three months or whenever it's going to run longer, it's the same thing with the building. If you're able to keep up with all of the repairs, you might be able to stretch the life of a system out, but eventually everything does wear out. They are mechanical systems. Is there a formula that you know of for municipal facilities, for the percentage of the total budget that should go into maintenance each year? Yes, that's above my pay grade. I don't know. Yes, there are formulas out there. I can't tell you off the top of my head. I'd have to, that is more a mechanical engineer question than a good tech question. Thank you. Are there additional questions from the council? Okay, then given the hour, I'm going to immediately flip to the attendees. If you wish to ask a question, please raise your hand now. I'm not seeing any hands. Nobody seems to want to ask a question. And we have 28 attendees. And that's not counting all the people who are just watching on Amherst Media. All right, I'm going to come back to the council then. Are there additional questions from the council? Okay, I'm ready to figure out how to do it. Okay. Kathy, please go ahead. You know, I sent a list of questions in ahead to you. And my understanding is we're going, Lynn is going to take mine and some of the other councils and we'll post them. But some of my questions were about, build a little bit on what Pat was getting at, that if we get accessibility on all the floors or their potential ways of reusing the board room, which right now has some beautiful old furniture in it, but is not used for a lot of community events. A bathroom up on the top floor that is hinged in a way that makes it hard to get into. So trying to think of, even with just accessibility reusing was one of my questions. So I think you partially answered that, but it was also about do, are there any potential offsets to, if we wanted to move ahead with doing this rather than the larger project, if the Jones could apply for partially CPA money if they're in the historic building, that some of the funding could come from that funding source in the larger project, they're proposed historic tax credits. And I realize at this point, it's a complicated question to say how much, but I'm assuming that renovating and dealing with a historic part of Jones, not the new addition, which the new roof wouldn't qualify for, the same kinds of potential offsets could apply if we went this route. Is that correct on those offsets? I, again, it's a historic tax consultant. We need to be a part of this process to determine what would qualify or not. I can't, I'm sorry, but I can't answer that question about that's too, there's too little information. And again, that's a specialty with the historic tax consultant. When we work on historic buildings, they're part of our team and they were not part of our team for this study. Okay. Okay, that's fair. So, and I know the computation is sort of partly what you're doing, as is special collections is a piece of it, but Jones in the past has gotten CPA money to repair a roof because it's a historic building. So there are some potential offsets to it. So I just was looking at what would be the net cost to the general revenue fund, although CPA is still tax dollars, you know, it's just coming out of another pot of money. So thank you. Sure. Thank you, Joe. You have your hand up. Yeah. One just administrative thing is if we're looking for public comment that isn't questions, we might want to phrase it that way because we asked when you phrased it, you asked specifically for questions, there might be public out there that don't have questions, but would like to say something. So just an administrative thing on that, but I, you know, one thing, I wanted to say, one thing that strikes me about this study is that it costs a lot of money to just repair the building and that that repair doesn't come with at this point with that number that we have any gains in sustainability other than that we'd have a 40 year newer system. And one of our council goals is sustainability. So I think as we move into this conversation, we have to really look at what this gets us versus what our council policies and all are because anything we would want to do to make this library more sustainable is going to be on top of whatever numbers that we were presented with this study. Is my understanding, because the study isn't looking at adding insulation, replacing single pane windows, any of that stuff, a better upgraded system that doesn't use fossil fuels that I believe some of the other things given my reading of the sustainability report does. So I think we need to keep that in mind as we do what Steve was saying, that value comparison and continue this conversation on. Dorothy, I'm actually going to skip you to give George and Lyssa a chance and then come back to you. So is it George or Lyssa? No, it's George. Thank you. Thank you. Maybe this can't be answered, but I'm just wondering if you could give us a sense or maybe Austin would weigh in what the next steps are going to look like going forward and if there's a timeline that could be given to that, I'm just wondering where we go next. I think that's a question for Austin. So where we go next? So we were eager for this meeting because we want the council to be clear about what the repair costs would be. The Feasibility and Design Committee met jointly with the Sustainability Committee to review what Fine Gold Alexander was presenting for improvements in the plan having to do with sustainability. And several questions were addressed back to Fine Gold Alexander, which need to be clarified in terms of what they can do and are recommending about sustainability. Once we have that, then we will be taking the next step and the next step is to really be in a position to present to the town what the revised plan would be. So that's kind of what the next steps are from the point of view of the Library Board of Trustees. Lyssa? That was actually the perfect segue. Thank you, George and Austin, because that's what I wanted to make sure before we left this meeting tonight, doesn't have to be this second, but in a couple of minutes, is to be clear what the community's role is next and what the town council's role is next. So Austin indicated that the Sustainability Committee, which is a committee associated with the library, it's not like some overall town sustainability committee, gets some more answers back and feels like they have a more fully fleshed out picture, then it's a question of when you say, present it to the community, does that mean the community is supposed to watch one of your regular Jones Library trustee meetings that typically haven't been filmed in the past? Does it mean you're planning to have a Zoom webinar? And how does it all fit in terms of, beyond the pandemic, right? Which is hugely an issue right now, is the idea basically, okay, we got that data and now we're just putting it on the shelf until we find out what's going on with the library grant, or is there an ongoing conversation to be had between now and again? And obviously, again, this is not a question for Alen, but a question for Austin in terms of, what do I tell people on the street, except to know we don't actually see people on the street anymore to say what's happening next? And here's who you can ask more questions of and here's what the timeline looks like. Are we just in a holding pattern or could you be a little more specific about that? So thanks, that's a good question. We're not in a holding pattern. What we've done is we've asked Find Old Alexander to refine the design that was presented to the MBLC. The MBLC came back to us and it's approved the, put it, it's stamp of approval, so to speak, on the proposal. We're number two on the wait list. It said we needed to make one significant change and that was to move the large meeting room. That occasioned some rethinking of the arrangements of elements in the plan. And Find Old Alexander has been working on that. And then we've asked them to think about the sustainability piece. How could we make the library even more sustainable than it would have been under the prior plan? And so we're waiting for them to come back to us now and say, well, this is what the whole package looks like. There may be things that we wanted to do in the building that we're gonna have to sacrifice because of the sustainability piece that we are trying to achieve. Find Old Alexander is a pretty well-known and pretty expert in working with historic buildings, but they're also really well-known about working on sustainability. And in fact, the Jones Library proposal has already attracted attention around the state for our interest in sustainability. So once we have all that, then that'll be presented to the feasibility and design committee, and then the feasibility and design committee will make recommendations. And at that point, we'll be laying out a process of how we're gonna go forward from that point onward. Dorothy, you have your hand up. Yes, two-part question. Before plans are finalized, I think you need to add the adjustments for COVID-19, which we hear may not be going away right away, which would mean some rethinking of space use in terms of program use. Because we keep adding things as we go on, but I think that not to have that in this plan would be a bad idea. But my short-term question is, I read Paul's email about the damage in the special collections, which sounds extensive. And that's right now. And there's tarps and the ceiling, the HVAC system is dripping. So that can't wait for whatever this process is. And so my question is, what can you do to try to save the special collections? That's a very good question. And I'm gonna ask Sharon to answer it, but I do wanna just say, as you all know, what we're worried about is a cascade of things. So what we're worried about is what begins with yet another leak in special collections will begin to trigger or cascade into other failings in the mechanical, electrical and plumbing in the library. And that's why what we got from Coon Riddle looked at two different options, right? One was kind of what could be done first and the other was what needed to be done first. Sharon, do you wanna say something about the special collections problem? Sure, literally as of between 430 and five, it was still being worked on. So I don't even know what the magnitude of the damage is quite yet. And so we will fix it and regarding how much it will cost and where we get that money from. So a year ago during the JCPC process, we had asked the town for money for these kinds of issues, just in case. And so we were told that when the just in case emergency happens, then come back and ask for it. So if it's a large enough repair issue that we're dealing with, then we'll come to town council and ask for money to get it repaired. And Cindy, our curator will work on how to best save the documents that have been damaged. Alex, you have your hand up. Yeah, I just wanna add, thanks Sharon. I wanna add that, so we had this exact same issue last August, so every time we're running the air conditioning units, again, because our systems are at end of life. And this is our concern and this is why the MEP systems are probably one of our highest priorities. And I'll repeat what I repeated last year at JCPC is that we have an end of life system. There's one guy who knows how to work on our system. We have to wait till the one guy who knows our system can come out and work on it. So last year, we had to wait a week before this person was available. So this has become a recurring problem. And to Councilor Pam's question, we do fix it every year. We do as much as we can to protect things, but when your systems are at end of life, I mean, we keep preparing them. I mean, they're just, they need to be replaced. So... I'm going to quickly flip back over to the attendees and ask if there are any questions. Please raise your hand. Okay, seeing none. Are there any final comments or questions? Yes, Kathy. Kathy, you need to unmute. I do indeed need to unmute. As I've been listening to the additional information, we're getting out of the sustainability committee and I saw some estimates of those systems. Will you be putting them together with a revised total cost of the project? And you mentioned that in the larger, I'm talking about the larger project right now. And will you, to the extent you have to, you use the word sacrifice, something else you wanted to do. I'm assuming you have to do the things you told the granting authority as I understand it. So I don't know where you've got the flexibility, but I think it would be very helpful as you present these. So I'm not asking you to do it now, to present those pieces. Cause I think some of what we're looking for is that we didn't ask Aylin and her team to look at different systems, but we've got an opportunity to say, you had an original cost for your internal systems and now you have a revised cost. How much did that add? So we can do, oh, that might add that much if we just did renovate, but at least it gives us, if you want a building that is more sustainable in terms of fuel. So I think just following the pieces to a new total, even if it's the same total, and one of the worries I've had about the total, aside from the town's ability to finance it, is that that total was originally priced out, assuming on a 2019 construction. So if we're at 2022, you get a grant extension. So just walking all of us through that, so there's a full, can be a full public dialogue, not just with a council, but with a broader residence on, what are we talking about? Sure, I think that's exactly right. And we're certainly doing that. We've asked Fine Gold Alexander for exactly for that information. But again, I wanna remind myself and maybe others that what we're doing is you're trying to think about the program that the library needs, the services that the library needs to provide. So that's where we began and that's where we're gonna come back to at the end. What is it that the town wants our library to do? And we've designed a process and worked through a process in which the program led the design. And Elaine may not wanna opine on this, but typically that's what architects say you should do. You should begin with the program and let the program lead the design. That's what we've done. And when we have more time, as I said earlier, we're happy to review right from the beginning, how we got to the point where we believe an expanded and renovated Jones Library is the library that the town should choose because of the services that the library needs to provide. And we're gonna be able to tell you exactly what the costs are. And for sustainability, we'll tell you exactly what the cost of moving to the level of sustainability that we are trying to move in, which would make the Jones Library a model of sustainability for the town. Thank you. You know, I do appreciate that the program led to the design and it's just when I was running for council, one of the things that struck me is that we rarely think about the whole town. We think about one big project. So you're the library trustees, it makes sense that you focus on the library. And so people are asking me, we're about to hopefully build a new school. So where should the big community room be? And a question of if you look across all our public space. So it's those kinds of questions Austin on the library trustees under one roof and others have asked me. So I think that is the right way to approach it. And so there just are gonna be questions on that vision in terms of what else we need to do in the town. So this isn't in isolation. Sure, I wouldn't want to trade my place on the library board for a place in the town council. So thank you for reminding me of my privilege. So thank you first and foremost to the library trustees for taking on the responsibility of answering this critical question. It's a question that all of us have needed the answer to in today's dollars and with the implications that have been presented. Elan, thank you very much for your study. And with that, we're going to say, this is just the beginning of our discussion with the library. We will be back as we have more information. And at that point, we will engage the council and the library trustees and the public once again. So we're going to adjourn this meeting. You need to adjourn the trustees and then we will be turning around and in three minutes, reconvening for our hearing. So yes, go ahead. Did you want me to adjourn the trustees first? Please. Okay, is there a motion to adjourn this meeting of the Jones Library Board of Trustees? Oh, no. Is there a second? Second. Okay. Robert Pam, are you in favor of adjourning? Yes. Alex LeFavre, are you in favor of adjourning? Yes. Leigh Edwards, are you in favor of adjourning? Leigh- I'm near to yourself. Leigh is saying she is. Way to go, Leigh. Tammy Eley, are you in favor of- I'm here, yes, adjourned. Are you in favor of adjourning? Yes. Chris Hoffman, are you in favor of adjourning? Yes. And Austin Serret, if we are adjourned, thank you very much.