 Yes. Say cheese. Hello everybody. We're just going to wait a few minutes until everyone comes in. Hi Kamlesh. I see people saying hi here. How are you? Kamlesh is a colleague for our Indian chapter. So we'll start probably at two or three minutes past. So we've had a register get in and it all rolls in. Hey Cliff, how are you? Cliff runs our meetup in Australia. Hi Prasannath. From Patna in India, I think we'll get people across the whole. We have everyone actually. I know people are getting up early in the morning in Europe. So strong coffee with you as well. There's another colleague in India, the chapter. There's also a technical steering committee member. Okay. One more minute. We'll start at 12.03. This is just posted to the WeChat groups. So we might get a trickle of more people in after we get started. So, but good to see. Oh, this is a. It just goes in wave. I don't know how Zoom does it actually. Okay. I think we shall start. Should we start recording? It's on. It's on. Okay. Good morning and good afternoon to everyone here in China and around Asia Pacific. Good evening to you all in the US and a very good very early morning to those joining us in Europe. I'm Julian Gordon. I'm the Vice President for Hyperledia in Asia Pacific and I'm based here in Xiangang in Hong Kong and I'm excited to be here introducing this special Hyperledia webinar with BSN. I've been looking forward to this event all week. We've had an extraordinary response to this very interesting subject. Since China's blockchain based service network or BSN launched last year, there's been a lot of interest in the global blockchain and business communities in exactly who BSN are, what they are doing today, their strategy and plans ahead, how they're deploying Hyperledia fabric and why they joined Hyperledia as a member. And we've had an amazing and we have an amazing panel here today to discuss this Hyperledia BSN and fintech leadership, a real meeting of blockchain mines. So if you have questions during the webinar, please use the Q&A function below in the Zoom. We're going to gather all those questions during the session, then hopefully with time at the end, we will have a Q&A. And without much further ado, I'd like to ask each panelist to introduce yourselves and your role in all of this. And we're going to do this alphabetical order. So Brian, could you start with your introduction, please? Sure things. Hi, everyone. I'm really glad to be here. I'm Brian Bellendorf. I'm Executive Director of Hyperledia, also General Manager for Blockchain Healthcare and Identity Initiatives at the Linux Foundation. And I've been, I think I've told people my first foreign travel as Executive Director of Hyperledia was actually to China back in September of 2016 to talk to folks there about, well, actually at the second Ethereum DevCon, but to talk to folks about the blockchain community in China. And since that point in time, China has been a really important part for Hyperledia. And so I seeing the rise of the BSN has been something of interest to us for sure. We're very keen to see governments around the world recognize the importance of this by building infrastructure, much like the roads and highways and bridges and the like of modern physical infrastructure or even internet infrastructure. I think blockchain infrastructure is a really interesting topic. And so I'm eager to hear more about how BSN plans to build this infrastructure, how it is building this infrastructure and working with entrepreneurs like Stacey and other companies to help bring about that future. Okay. Thank you, Stacey. Oh, hi, morning. Good afternoon and evening to everyone. This is Stacey. I'm in Beijing. And please accept my warmest greetings. And I'm the CEO of S-Labs. This is a corporate, this is a company we focus on DApp development. I was a banker and has been there for 20 years. So by very accidental scenario, I step into blockchain world. And especially thank BSN. It brought us to a wider and more opener world of the blockchain. So we may focus on two applications. First one is finance. The other one is special government and corporate requirements. Later, we'll share all these what we do to everyone. So if you have any questions, just ask me without hesitation. Thank you. Thank you, Stacey. And Yifan. Hi, everyone. Good morning from Beijing. My name is Yifan He. And I'm the CEO and founder of Right Day Technology. And Right Day is one of the founding members of BSN's blockchain-based service network. So we actually have a very long history with hyperledger and fabric because when we launched the beta testing version of BSN back in 2019, October, we only have fabric on BSN. So at that time, we can call BSN as a fabric-based service network. So after the launch, then we added basically because like CETA, like QRAM recently. So we're trying to, of course, what BSN is, is we're really trying to provide everybody, all the developers, one staff, to do whatever they want with blockchain technology very low cost way and also very convenient. They don't need to build their system. They don't need to maintain their system. They just bring their smart contract and boom, everything's done by us. Thank you. Okay. That's excellent. Thank you. Thank you all. So now before we talk about BSN specifically, I would like to get each of your perspective understanding of the history and importance of blockchain in China because this started in China, right? So maybe we could start with Yifan and talk about, I think everyone's interested in seeing your perspective of what's happening in China and blockchain. Okay. So first, everybody knows China basically doesn't really allow ICOs and exchanges to run inside China. But I think China is the most friendly country to blockchain technology. Everybody knows the president actually made the blockchain technology as a technical strategy, a national technical strategy of China. I think there's two reasons. One is the central government of China. Someone there really, really understand what blockchain is. It definitely is a new technology will change the world just like the internet. Someone has a deep understanding of blockchain technology in China's central government. And then the second one is the China always want to be a leader in the technology world. I think after goes through all the technology, the blockchain is probably something China and other country is on the same starting point. So it's not like AI chips, we still a little bit far behind, but for blockchain technology, everybody on the starting point. So there's a chance China can be a future leader in this technology. So I think that's why China government really, really want to push the blockchain technology forward in China. That means actually the government already spent a lot of money into blockchain technology. That's why all the small and medium companies and all the technology companies get this kind of funding from government and build applications, build tools for blockchain industry. So I think also in the next two years, all the type of blockchain technology in China will move really, really fast. So I think there's a shot, China can be a leader in this in blockchain. Thank you. Okay, thank you. That's a great perspective. And Stacey, what's your view on China? How do you see blockchain in China? Yes, we've been in this area for three, almost half, the four years. We can see all the procedure and all the developments. At first, that people think that blockchain is too far away from me. I'm a non-ordinary people, I'm a non-ordinary citizen. I know nothing about the new tech. I don't care about that. That's what kind of bullshit. And after some time, especially when the government, they use a lot of media or other ways, means to tell people what's going on here. We are doing some new tech, but the new tech is not separated. Just like Brian said, it's connected with AI, with IoT, with a lot of new other technologies. It brought us a new world and almost everybody knows that we are facing a new world. So many changes, flying tours. So especially last year, after BS and launched, I think the reputation and famous story of blockchain, they can brought us, especially the trust between strangers or not known companies. We set up trust. So easy to pay attention to the new technology. That's why we are facing more requirements and people will use the blockchain as a typical model. Say, you see, I have the innovation way of thinking. This is a benchmark or this is a bookmark of that. So we are doing a lot of research and pioneering work now. Okay, excellent. There is so much happening in China in blockchain. It's amazing. So Brian, somebody who's visited there, I think being since the beginning of this, what's your perspective of what's happening in China? Right. Well, it's been important for us to engage, not only because we felt like this is an extension of the movement towards open source software that I started. I remember first visiting China in 2002, actually, and talking about open source software and having a slightly different reaction then, though still seeing some pockets of it to today, open source software being very large and the Linux Foundation having a lot of different projects with ongoing activities in China. As part of building open source is really a global movement. But in particular around blockchain technologies and so many of the use cases cross borders. So many of them are about international finance. So many of them are about international supply chains. It was important to recognize most supply chains in the world either start or pass through China at some point, perhaps all of them. And every one of them involve money flows that sometimes touch China or other countries in the region. So it's really important as we build out global blockchain infrastructure and global blockchain technologies, that those are technologies that China can use, can participate in and can feel as close to as any of the others. So that's been a part of our work there is to make sure we're building not just a user base in China, but a contributor base there as well. And companies who are building products and services and making money using this technology so that it really is a multi stakeholder thing in a global technology initiative. And so that's why it's been great to see it picked so much in China. Yeah, so I think we agree that China is definitely and things are in production and things are happening in China. And it's for all those reasons, right? So let's look at BSN, right? So Yifan, so let's kind of demystify this a bit. I've heard many people talk about BSN. So what is BSN? So if you could explain what it is, maybe its origins and the role, I think you'll see a red date technology and the role of red date technologies, that would be great. Okay, BSN is a little bit complicated. If we put it simply, we basically build one specialized blockchain layer on top of all the core services. So and then, you know, make this environment to be blockchain specific. And then, you know, people can access to public chains, can deploy their private chains. So that's basically an environment we want to build. And just like, you know, the regular cloud services, you know, you don't need to build a data center in order for you to build your own website. So that's what we do. Because right now, if you want to build a private chain, you still need to set up the environment, you know, build your own, you know, all the nodes and connect them together and maintain it, you know, for yourself. And we, BSN is building everything, integrating everything into BSN. And you just need to bring your smart contract and we handle everything else for you. So that's the basic concept of BSN. That's why we are integrating all the cloud services. We are setting up the public sitting actually, which is the BSN's virtual data center inside all the major cloud services in all the regions of each cloud services. And we link all the public sitting all together, it becomes the BSN. And on those virtual data center, we put, we continue integrating more and more, you know, permission framework. So you can build your own permission chain, you know, anywhere you want. You can put one PR in Beijing, one PR in Tokyo, one PR in Paris, and the link, and also three pairs on different cloud services. And the click button will link the chain for you. And also, we, and also we have a public chain, and you can, you know, throw one gateway and access 15 public chains. And by the end of this year, that number will raise to 40. So all the major public chains with one single, you know, payment plan, like $20, $10, and one gateway you can access often. So that's, and also it's a way position BSN as an infrastructure, which means, you know, how people use it, they will go through, we call that BSN portal. Actually, we don't even want to run official BSN portal, because we provide APIs to the websites. For example, for a developer community website, they can use our API to very, very easily and cheaply to build a collection of services section onto their website. So they manage their own users, then they process their own payments, and all those personal information stay in the portal. On BSN, we don't have any personal information. We don't know who build watching portals now. Okay. So that's basically the structure of BSN. The idea actually, you know, came up with three years ago. And at that time, we think, you know, even today, we think the blockchain industry is very similar to the early stage of internet, you know, each chain is, you know, each chain is like an internet. Okay, eventually, how internet becomes so powerful is basically, you know, linking all the internet and the mixed data together, so you can build more and more new business model and do a lot of new innovation based on the data, you know, mixed together. And also the internet, the cost to build a website become lower and lower. So the idea of BSN actually came from internet. And, you know, three years ago, you know, we saw nobody really building something like this, even the blockchain technology is already like 10 years old, but nobody trying to build infrastructure like this. So right day, I know working with China Mobile, China Union Pay, you know, the way three of us, you know, know each other for a long time. And we think we have the resources together to put this off. That's when we started. And so we launched last year. And so far, you know, so far so good. So I think everybody, when they know BSN, they really, really like the idea. Everybody think this is the right way, you know, for now, someone needs to build the infrastructure to bring down the cost also enable the interoperability. Because on BSN, one major part is the interoperability. Because all the chains within our environment, it's much easier and the low costly to build the interoperable functions between different chains. That's basically the BSN. Okay, excellent. So and anyone who's got questions, please ask questions. I know a lot, your great explanation, but the more you know, the more you know, you don't know. So people will want to know more information about that. Actually, another thing is how do the cloud providers connect with you? I think you work on top of cloud providers. Is that, is that? Yeah. Actually, we install a public sitting on software on top of the cloud service inside the cloud service and pull, you know, virtual machines into this virtual data center, then build all the all the frameworks, all the, you know, systems inside this virtual data center. It's just like you build a physical data center, you need the hardware, you have software, basically, we install a software inside a data center and convert that, you know, to a virtual data center of BSN. And then they can sell their cloud resources through BSN. So BSN become a channel for them. So we've got a quick question here. Actually, I'm going to put this in here, because I think it's very relevant, right? It says, how do you, how, somebody says, how do we build a consortium in BSN? So if you want to build up consortium, how does that? That might help people understand it better. So I wanted to build up a five node consortium. How would I do that in BSN? Okay. So basically, you go to any portal. Okay. Yes, because I mean, you know, we can provide APIs to you, you can go through the APIs, but it's for, you know, for technical, so for regular developer, they go to any portal, any portal they trust, okay, then go there, register, and they go to our permission services, okay, or whatever name the portal, you know, put it there. So they click that, and they can choose a framework. Okay, there's fabric, there's physical process, there's a program, there's, there will be code and the substrate and also, you know, the data, a bunch of frameworks. So they choose one framework, and then they can choose where they want to build the peers. Okay. And this is a private chain. Okay. For the construction chain, it will be different form. So then, from all the public sitting nodes around the world, you can choose where you want to put your peer to, you can choose multiple peers in one public sitting node, and you can put one peer into any public sitting node. And also, you need to upload your smart contract. Okay. And the site is a function, set of rows, and also you can choose how you want to generate your certificates. Okay, you want, you know, BSN to host the certificates for you, or you can generate the public chain and the private chain yourself and upload the public chain to BSN. So we will generate the certificate for you. You'll choose all of them and click the button. Then we build the chain for you. For example, for fabric, we build the chain for you. And also, if you want to build, you know, some peer belong to other developer, then that developer also get on the BSN portal and, you know, create their own peer, and we can link them together, become one team. Okay. That's interesting. So I think that helps people. I've got a few more questions. I'm going to go back to them. We're getting a lot of questions now, but we'll go back to those in a minute. So can you explain the success that BSN has had with Hyperledger Fabric? And why is that? I mean, and you want to go talk to that a little bit? And then Brian, maybe you could talk a little bit about the Hyperledger community and your views as well. Yeah, sure. And I mean, when we build this, we need, you know, first framework we can work on. So, I mean, there's, you know, Fabric is definitely on top of the list. It says the most widely used framework, even in China. So that's why, you know, we choose framework, Fabric as the first framework we integrate. And also, so far, on BSN, the majority of the chains, private chain, construction chains, build on BSN is based on the fabric. So I think the reason is the first day is, you know, Fabric is open source. You know, many, many chains actually in China are not open source. So the first one is open source. And it's very easy to use. For example, for programming smart contract, you can use Java, right? You can use global language. So it's easier for traditional developer to adopt, to learn, you know, how to program smart contract based on Fabric. So I think, you know, and also Fabric, you know, progress really, really quickly, you know, upgrade, you know, from 1.443 to 2.0. I think it offers a lot of functions and tools for developer, you know, to easily to develop their own DR. That's actually the, I mean, same as BSN, we also provide a lot of tools and also, you know, make sense easier for developer to develop their own DR. For example, for Fabric, on BSN, we actually offer, we call that pre-set smart contract. So basically, you don't even need to use your own smart contract. You just check a box and we deploy a standard smart contract for you. If your application only need, you know, input data, delay data, do some search, you know, simple functions, you don't even need to program your own. So that's based on the, you know, Fabric. We can provide that kind of services. Okay. Brian, do you want to thank you? I think Fabric has grown in popularity in China, partly because of the success of the community we've had there from the beginning. I want to highlight in particular the China technical working group that has worked so hard to try to connect the developers there and the ones for whom the, you know, crossing the border might represent either a language barrier or a time zone barrier, or an understanding of how open source works kind of barrier. They've worked really hard to cross that boundary and try to help the developers in China feel like part of the global community. We also have a very active community of translators who have translated the documentation, lots of examples, and have written a lot of content and sample code local to China as well. So that's helped there. And then it's helped that obviously Fabric's been very popular globally as well. So BSN's ambitions outside of China can also line up with that success inside. And Yifan, what kind of percentage, or can you say, how many of your implementations today are Majority. The majority. Around 70. Yeah, and we're seeing similar actually across from our perspective across China, in terms of across the spectrum, right? Fabric is in a strong, strong place. So yeah, thank you for that. And now I think we understand what BSN is. We've got a bit understanding of the China market. Let's look at the, as I said, we're, you know, why we're using this technology, right? So I think it's great that we have Stacey here. So if you could talk a little bit and talk about why, you know, about who you are, SLABS and why you're using BSN and, you know, what applications you're running today, I think that'll be really interesting. Thank you. SLABS, as I said, SLABS is a company we focus on Dapp's development. We have been there for three and a half years. And especially we focus on finance and government and corporate requirements. So at least, at least in the beginning, I remember clearly, we used hyperledger for most of our cases, projects. And since last year, we changed to BSN because different clients have different specific requirements. Okay, let's say I am a tech idiot. I know nothing about, three or four years ago, I know nothing about technology, no blockchain. The first time when people mentioned blockchain to me as a what, what's that? So I've been in finance area for 20 years in almost half of my lifetime. So in the financial area, we were cheated all the time. I don't know whether you have that experience before or not. But a lot of companies, they will, they will rewrite or they will alternate their financial report to cheat, to get more loans from the banks that they use fake data. So when you met a guy, he told you all the beautiful stories and all the financial data are so beautiful. And you trust him like your brother. But the other day, you find out that he's a cheater. So this is impossible and this is terrible. So we are thinking about, is there anything that can help us to gain real data instead of the fake data? Can we recognize and control the risk rather than we just, the client submit something in paper, black and white. So we are looking for that in the market. So finally, we got blockchain. Of course, we will use that with big data, AI and LT, a lot of stuff together nowadays. So our focus in financial area, we can share a case, a real case. Maybe, maybe everyone will like that. You know, in China, for all these SMEs, small and medium-sized corporates, enterprises, they are so hard to get trust from the banks. The banks will only give the provide loans to them. Unless you are guaranteed, you have collateral, you have like your house, whatever. If you are just applied for a loan credit loan, no, non impossible. So we will try, we try to use blockchain data, the real business data, instead of the financial report to help them to get loans. That make a lot of, a lot of progress we call, so-called progress because the, the numbers do you know. Till now, in the last three years, we have helped more than 10,000 SMEs to get, yeah, to get more than almost 2 billion, 2 billion RMB loans. And more and more corporates, SMEs, they are queuing to connect to the platform to get financial aids from the banks. Especially, we don't need any guarantee, no collateral, no house, no real estate, and the interest rate is really low. The lowest we, we can get from the bank is 4.5 per annum. That means you borrow 1 million for the whole year, you only pay the interest rate at 45,000 RMB. That's very interesting, especially last time, last year in the COVID, you know, period, every SME is in such difficult time. So we use that to, to help them to get recovered. So till now, the good news is till now, there is no debt, because we use the vivid data, business data, to help them to recognize them. So the, these cases is also reported as a typical health SME case study to the central government and central bank, yeah. And the other one case is we set up a consortium chain for Xiongnan area. This is a rising star in China. So we set up the consortium chain to put all the, we call smart constructions to provision platform. We put all the building construction work into blockchain. In Xiongnan, only in Xiongnan there are more than 200 construction works and projects in Xiongnan area. We put everything, every data on blockchain. So it means every single piece of data is unnoturable. So if there anything wrong goes with the building or the construction work, all the responsibilities can be traced back from the data side. And also in the next time, in the next stage, we would try to make the payroll of all the workers, you know, payroll of workers, especially the construction workers, sometimes or most of the time they are delayed. So we'll use digital currency to make the payroll more clearer and transparent. Yeah. This is the two vivid case, this is happening in the real world. That's great. Thank you. And those are really, I mean, there's a supply chain finance, which I think is one of the hot areas, right? And you say small, but 10,000 SMEs is not small in my book. And 2 million renminbi's loan is significant. And that is wonderful. And you're providing small businesses with that accessibility to low interest rates, which is different sometimes between running a business and not running a business, right? It's significant, providing that liquidity. I got one question here on that, actually, as we're going there, which I think is a good question. And they said, how can blockchain data replace financial reports? I don't think it's actually doing that. So maybe you explain how you get the data, I mean, some ERP systems, or how do you know that it's... Yeah. Yeah. Brian's right. We are focusing on supply chain finance, especially. So we will use system connection, get the core enterprise ERP data. And that shows all the SMEs to do business wisdom. And all these data are real and are real on time. So every single order, every day, they put, and every single purchase they make is clearly sure. So at least the core enterprise will help us to provide in last 24 months, business data and business records, track record for us. So we will link the system also to the bank. In this case, everything is linked together, all the platforms are connected in the system. So if there's this SME, he needs a loan, he will apply in the FAPP. And when he fill in his name, his company name, and his unique number in the serial in a unique number. And all the system will provide their business data automatically. And we will provide that after our work to the bank. So they don't need to provide their financial data anymore. They just provide their name, their registered name, and the shareholder, the real shareholder, the contact information, and the record at their face. He is him, himself. So everything will be done within 15 minutes. And within 15 minutes, that means his loan after he applied will arrive to his account. So this is all done by system, not any one individual. Exactly. So it's basically, it's a distributed system, right? So providing that trust. And just to be clear, you said you moved from fabric to BSN. I think you moved from running your own project, your own fabric to running fabric on BSN, right? So this is all running, running on fabric. So that's great. So yeah, the person said, thanks for answering. That was a good answer, definitely. So and in terms of construction, I think the other one's construction, which I think is also a very hot subject and working on the provenance and making sure that people are doing the right thing in the supply chain and our buildings are all safe. And I love the final one, making sure that workers actually get paid, which is obviously a very key thing. So yeah, thank you that. And I think we may have more questions as we go on, as we continue on that. So thank you, Stacey. So next, what do you see? And I think I'll ask Mr. Brian, you fan. So what do you see as opportunities for Red Day as a new Hyperledger member and BSN to collaborate with the global blockchain community? Would you like me to take that first? You can take that first. Well, the Hyperledger community is comprised of its member organizations. We don't have an independent, large, massive developer team building all this great code, nor do we go out and sell it, nor do we go out and deploy it for companies, for end-user organizations. We depend upon the infrastructure organizations, the technology companies, the tool makers, and the systems integrators and all those who actually make this technology work for the rest of the world. So the first most important thing that I hope Red Date and every company like them does is go out and build, right? Because building and serving some real needs gets that cycle of feedback into open source projects kickstarted, right? None of what we do would matter at all if it wasn't out there actually delivering value for people. So even that returns value to us in no other way. The second, obviously, is giving us an opportunity to, when people do wonder how can we get the stuff deployed, being able to channel folks to companies like Red Date and projects like BSN as an easy way to get deployed, allows us to reach a much bigger audience, much bigger footprint, right? So that helps as well. I certainly hope, and I've seen evidence that they are working with the rest of the community in China as well as other parts of Asia. Certainly the engagement that they've done with China Mobile and China Telecom are really interesting to note here, China Unicom. Sorry, certainly worth noting here in terms of helping us educate the industry there and globally about how Enterprise Blockchain works and why it's a valuable thing and all these use cases. And certainly would hope that isn't like any company that has now stepped deep into Hyperledger and is depending upon the technology, some of that coming back in the form of small things like bug fixes or bigger things like working with the others who are adding support for the Chinese national encryption standards, helping perhaps even with translations and some of the other work or potentially contributing to the efforts to add major new features to Fabric going forward and help just spread out the developer pool around the core of Fabric to be much more decentralized, if you will. So looking forward to all those different things potentially happening. Okay, do you want to add anything to that, Yifan? Yeah, just like I described about the BSN, it's, you know, we are an integrator, okay? They're a support operator to manage all the developers. There's, you know, cloud services they provide all the other resources and there's a framework, you know, what we work with to really, really to, you know, all the data is a build based on. So, which means we don't really develop anything like we rely on the ecosystem to put everything together. We just manage them into a right order. Okay, so that's why it's, you know, for people really, really to develop the decentralized application, they still need to rely on each framework. Okay, so that's why it's, you know, by working with, you know, Hyperledger join the community, you know, we really have begin to have access to a lot of resources to make, you know, because we need to fully, fully to understand how each framework works. That's how we can build an ecosystem that, you know, better to serve all the developers. So, since we joined, you know, because we actually, you know, deployed a version of fabric with Chinese encryption. Okay, now we are working with, you know, the Hyperledger Chinese team, you know, to make that better. Okay, that's actually very, very important because for the applications from the government, Chinese government and huge banks, they actually require Chinese encryption. Okay, you cannot use K1, so R1. So, and also, since we joined, we begin to talk with other members. Actually, we are going to launch a new feature for the fabric on BSN. It's, we are going to launch IDE. Okay, for, for fabric, you know, anybody use BSN, they can download IDE and, you know, to create projects, to build their codes, inside this IDE and the click button, it goes on to BSN. So, it's, it makes the developer process much, much easier. You probably don't even need to go to our portal and click around. Everything can be done inside this IDE. So, that's actually, you know, the resources we get from the Hyperledger community. So, that's why it's so important, you know, to join. You know, we have much better access to all the resources around fabric. Okay, excellent. So, so, I think let's explore quickly the other concept you're beginning at the beginning, the internet of blockchain we talked about, right. And I think you find, Brian can both talk to that. So, maybe you find you can talk a little bit about what that is. And then Brian, that's one of the, you know, pioneers of the internet, right. You can talk a little bit about your view of, of that as well. Yeah, I mean, what, what internet is the internet basically connecting all the data centers hardware together, like the data can be flow freely around the world. I think that's, you know, the internet is. So, which means, you know, I think, you know, it needs to connect all the IT systems. Okay, and, and, you know, people from one, one, you know, one corner of the world can reach the data from another side of this world. That's why internet is under cheap play. Okay, you cannot spend one million to get that data, you should get that data in three seconds for free. Okay, as soon as you have access. So, that's why internet is. So, if we move the concept to blockchain means, you know, the internet of blockchain, first is all the data on any chain should have, you know, smooth connection. Okay, for example, from, from us chain, if you want to get the data from a private chain, you'll get it should be just, you know, 20 lines of code should do that. Now, we probably take your, you know, 10,000 lines of codes to do that. So, it's, it's, it's too expensive. So, I think that the data needed to, to move freely from our chains. And the second one for internet is, because a internet connect all the resources, not only cloud resources, I actually connect all the business, which means on internet, you can choose, you know, you have much, much, you know, bigger choices to choose what kind of business or services you want, and then make, you know, all the business on internet competing with each other under that, that price drops. So, which means people have, you know, a lot of choices to access to cheap services, but very good services. So, that means for blockchain, it's the same, we need to have all the costs on blockchain drop. Okay. So, we need to build an ecosystem on all the chains to compete equally. And we need, you know, all the portals to compete with each other. And we want all the, you know, the apps to compete with each other. That, that, that environment to compete is also a main concept for internet. So, that's also what BSN is trying to do. So, I've been on the internet a very long time, right? And when, when I first got started, the main way that people would chat across different networks was a tool called IRC. And IRC is still around, of course, everyone, well, not everybody knows about it, hardly anybody knows about it anymore. But when, when, when the internet arrived, we didn't all have to agree just to use IRC, right? IRC emerged and it evolved, people wrote new clients for it, but then a whole different network started to arise. Some of them initially were very close, like AOL Instant Messenger, and then that opened up a bit. And obviously, you have everything up to today's modern Slack, right? And even today with Slack, I mean, Slack is a hosted service, but you'll be on a Slack for one community project, one group of people, a different Slack for different group of people, a different project, right? And the fact that they're both using Slack means the tooling is kind of the same, right? But you can have different communities, different constituencies, because you have different kinds of problems to solve, different people involved in solving that problem. So I think blockchain networks are going to work the same way. First off, we don't need a single standard because just like IRC, even though IRC was pretty good, there's plenty of room for additional ones. At the internet, we solved the core problems of DNS with naming and routing with TCPIP and BGP. And after that, everything else we build on top, we can allow for optionality, right? So this has been why it's been no surprise to see the enterprise blockchain space grow in this very kind of colorful, many different kind of networks way because the underlying infrastructure of the internet allows that to happen. What'll be interesting though is how we connect these together. So today, for example, I can use something like IFTTT to wire a connection up to a home sensor and to my Slack channel to let me know, hey, there's somebody's at your door or something like that in a Slack channel, right? Likewise, we should be able to wire up these different blockchain networks with bridges and signals and ways to communicate between them, ways even for smart contracts on one to query data from another. The harder part is going to be to get it transactional across those. And that's where there's work in the public ledger side groups like Cosmos. I know BSN is getting to know Cosmos pretty well to projects like Cactus, which is that hyper ledger is a toolkit for building integration between different blockchain systems. There's going to be a couple of different approaches to this that emerge. The important thing now is to do research, to start building prototypes, to start looking for use cases and not holding up the perfect so that not waiting for the one network that solves it all, but instead getting started on these kind of use case and community specific blockchain networks, whether they're using fabric or quorum or hyper ledger Bezu or any of the other protocols out there. Okay, so thank you both for that. Actually, I've got tons of questions coming in. We only have a limited amount of time left. So I think, I think firstly, you find, let's talk about international. So, BSN predominantly Chinese and you're going international, maybe you could talk a little bit about, you know, how people get in contact. I know you're going international, talk a little bit about your international kind of expansion plans, use strategy. Okay, so basically BSN is a global network. It's just like the internet. Okay, that means in each region, there will be different regulations, like the internet, right? There's a CAC managing, you know, internet in China, there's the FCC in the United States also regulates internet. So that's why for BSN in different part of the world, it will be, you know, managed by the government in different ways. That's why it's for BSN international, we're actually setting up a foundation in Singapore. Okay, and we will have some major partners joining this foundation. And this foundation will manage BSN international, you know, together. So the BSN international won't be managed by any company from China. So it's because it's, you know, not China, it's also China. So and we will open source everything to all the foundation members in three months from now. And we will open source everything to Paris in two or three years. So everybody can, you know, basically they can even use our source code to build their private BSN. Okay, so that's how we want to make the BSN as transparent as possible. Okay, everybody can understand, go through the codes, how that works, how the data is stored, how the certificates are issued. So make sure nobody, you know, there's a funny business or something. So we really have a roadmap for international expansion. Okay, but this foundation will actually become the governing body, which means if we want to build any data center outside China, they need to get permission from this foundation. Anyone want to build a portal outside China will get the permission from this foundation. So that's why under this foundation, probably just ready and, you know, China Mobile is one of the, you know, stakeholders inside that, but probably we don't even have majority voting power. So this will be, you know, governed just as NGO. So we will publish the structure of the foundation probably in one month or two months. So everybody know how that, you know, who is involved, how that is. And also we inside this foundation, we will build a technical community. Okay, we will invite probably five to seven technical company join us and we will open source to them about, you know, everything and we invite them to take part of the development from us because the BSN become too big to handle by one or two companies. So we really want BSN become, you know, global effort and, you know, from like a dozen companies from the world. So that's and also another way to expand is building more and more portals. So this year we want to build the 10 portals in 10 different regions. So and then each part of it will have, you know, its own interface, its own user management, its own applications, its own payment methods. So that's also another way to expand BSN internationally. Okay, that's excellent. I got a lot of questions here. A lot of them are around governance. How does it work, right? So maybe I just ask a few of these to you now, right? The talk about BSN network on data centers was interesting. Is it possible to create an isolated network of BSN nodes, which is disconnected from the larger BSN network? How are these structured to meet the privacy and data export requirements of different governments? Okay, actually, this is a very good question. And if I were to ask this question, really I understand BSN. Actually, we have another product called private BSN. So for the private BSN, there are actually two major functions. The first one is we can deploy this private BSN on a internet. So on this, if there will be like hundreds of, you know, DR on this internet and with different framework, then you need the private BSN to manage everything, manage all the resources, manage all the certificates, manage all the DR, manage all the users, you know, if you don't have private BSN, you will build, you know, silos, different silos. So it doesn't even connect to us. So this is the first function of the private BSN. And the second one is if by regulation or other reason, there's a country, they said, okay, I want to build a BSN, but I don't want to connect to the global BSN network. I just want to set up, you know, for example, one country's BSN network and we will sell the resources from our country's data center and we will only serve our developers, then we can license you to build your own private BSN to serve your own developers. But it will be only for country, okay, because we don't want, you know, there's so many private BSN competing with global BSN. So for that country, we can give a country license, they can build their own data center. Okay, that's very interesting, right? So the next question is, who has the ownership of communication network between different BSN nodes? What kind of governance have you put in place to prevent, you know, monopolistic practices? Actually, that's the question about ownership of the PCNs. Okay, so right now in China, 80% of the PCNs owned by China Mobile. Okay, so which if a developer deploy, deploy, deploy a vacation and one peer is on the China Mobile data center, actually the payment majority of that payment goes to the China Mobile because they basically they use. So in the future when we open source, which means everybody can build their own PCN and connect to the BSN. So that's actually the goal. We don't want the PCNs belong to one company or two companies or three companies, we want PCNs belong to each people. And they make money from BSN, okay. But the communication between the PCN actually goes through the internet. So everything is encrypted based on the framework, okay, based on the framework. And because if there's, let me say this, okay, if there's, if there's an application has peers on two PCNs, then those two PCNs begin to communicate through this, this chain. If, I mean, for two PCNs, there's, you know, there's no chain really your spot often. They don't even communicate. They don't even communicate. They actually, you know, we have ways to make sure all the PCNs is up around you. And the other, the all the connection based on the business, based on the chains. Okay. All right, so I think we're coming to the, I've got a lot of questions, I think we're going to get it. And then maybe the big question actually people ask, what's the architecture? They want to know more about it? Where would they go to, to find that out? So I presume they just go to the BSN, if they want to find out more about the architecture, they want to know more details about it. I presume there's the, there is the white paper, people, there was a white paper you have, right? Yeah, the white paper actually a bit old. It's a little bit different now. We probably need updates, but go to our medium account, BSN base, the medium account. And there's a lot of articles, you know, to describe what's being a private BSN, what's the architecture, and there's the information package there. So you can find all the links, useful links for, you know, relate to BSN. Yeah. And when this is on YouTube, we'll put the link at the bottom. So we'll watch it on YouTube, you'll be able to get it. We'll send out that link. So let's wrap up with maybe just a lightning round quick question for each of three of you, right? So you find, so what are BSN? What are the one or two plans and goals for the next five years for BSN? Tough question. I mean, for next quarter, I can tell you, you know, one big update, the way we will launch, you know, the IDE suit, and actually not only support February, they support almost all the frameworks. And in five years, we really want, first, we want BSN to be open source. Okay. Just like I said, everybody can build a PCN and plug into, everybody can build a public sitting and plug into the BSN. Everybody can build a portal and plug into the BSN. So that's actually the number one goal to make BSN more and more successful. That's number one. Second one is that we really, really want to find as many regional partners as possible because each region partner, they understand, you know, the requirements in that country, the regulations in that country. So we only provide the backbone of BSN. So they build their data centers, they build their portals and the two, you know, probably for BSN portals, no two of them looks the same. Okay. Because we only provide APIs, you'll handle all the interface. So we really want every single country has a BSN portal to serve the local developers. Okay. So sorry, like you want open source? And you want to, you know, every, this model to replicate in many different places. So that's great. So let's go to, and Stacy, thank you very much. The key for all this technology is for people to produce and applications actually produce societal business outcomes. So what are your plans for the kind of next five years or however long you wish with, you know, working with BSN and working with blockchain and hyperledger fabric? To tell the truth at the beginning, I don't think I don't believe like hyperledger and BSN is free. You know, in financial area, in banks, no free lunch, right? Everybody knows that. At the beginning, everything free at the last will be the most expensive. But now after so many years, after many years of hard working, I believe that there will, there are a bunch of people, they try to set up something so basic infrastructure. They don't eager for only cash return, but they want to do something to bring benefit for others. This is what I fully respect. And let me bow here in front of the screen. And also I know there's a lot of professionals in front of the screen. And also please show my respect to all of you. And you are the superstars to lead the whole world. For SLABS, we believe that within five years, we'll become one of the leading blockchain application companies. Also, we will become a famous data companies, because now in our platform, we have accumulated more than 15 million pieces of data already. And all of them are supported by blockchain. So if you must become, that you are confident about the future is made of data, and that's the charot, pressless diamonds in the future, we are doing that on the way. So blockchain for us is not the end. It's just a start. It's a tool. And we'll use that charot tool, very powerful and very powerful tool to get more everything in real, to describe people, a man or girl or a company, to show the real image. And that's very useful to the future. Yeah. And thank you. Yeah. Let me thank you again for Happy Ledger and for BSM, for what they do in the past years, and for the basic infrastructure work. So they can bring us so many benefits and the convenience. Thank you so much, guys, for your help. Thank you, Stacey, I think. And Brian, final words, right, on how you see the collaboration development moving forward. I'm just excited to see where it goes and to continue to help us grow the global community around Hyperledger. Okay. And thank you. So thank you, Brian, Stacey, you find amazing panelists. I think this is just the beginning of a conversation that's been going on anyway, right? But in the public domain, so I think we'd love to have more of these sessions, more of the sharing. And we have so many questions to answer. And thank you to you who are watching this. Thank you very, very much. And take care, keep safe. And I think we'll wrap up here. All right. Thank you, everybody. Take care. Bye. Thank you. Bye.