 Welcome back to the breakfast and it's time for our first hot topic which is on the approval given by the federal government for the postponement of the 2023 censors. We've been joined by Mr. Nick Agoule, Public Affairs Analyst who's joining us from the UK. Hello Mr. Agoule. Thank you very much and good morning to our viewers. You are welcome. Now not a few Nigerians described the censors as ill-timed when we were told it would be taking place between the 3rd and 7th of May. There are also some who believe that look no matter what we should have had it because we haven't had one in 17 years. What's your take on these positions? My take is that it again shows how our governments are not able to do very simple and basic things because if the postponement is due to the elections which is the reason that it's been profited. By 2019 we already knew that we're going to have an election in 2023. So it's not as if an election has just come upon us uninvited, unannounced in the way COVID came upon us. So those who plant the censors at the same time that the elections were to hold, where were they? Did they not know that Nigeria was going to go into a general election? So this is the whole malaise that we suffered in Nigeria because we have square pegs in round holes at almost all the levels of governance in Nigeria. People who don't know they are left from their right. You see we need to plug in our best 11 to run Nigeria for us to get results. But from every indication we don't even plug in our 50-11, our 100-11. We have people in positions who carry on as if they've never been to school. So this whole carnage that has resulted into the postponement was people failing to plan. When you fail to plan, you plan to fail. So they plan to fail and they have failed. So that is the situation that is facing us right now. But all the money that was supposed to be used for the censors have been provided. So why was their need at all to postpone it and all that? So I don't know. Which means they had planned, they put out a budget, it was approved and everything went well and suddenly it has been postponed. And one of the excuses that the government gave is that the next administration should know what to do about censors. Is that a good enough excuse? It's not a good excuse at all. It's not even an excuse. The same government that is saying that the next administration should deal with censors, only yesterday the president was issuing agenda 2015. Why is he issuing agenda 2050 without waiting on the next government, which is to begin the implementation to take it forward? So I think that is a baseless excuse. It is a total lack of planning. And to be honest, let's also not forget that the Nigerian Population Commission, the agency vested with the responsibility of conducting this censor. They may not even have been ready. They could be using all these other reasons as cover up. It's possible that they were not even ready. We have seen in Nigeria that even general elections have been postponed. I think the 2015 election was postponed, was not even the 2019 also. So they will have agencies that are in place, that people are not doing what they are expected to do. And then when they can't get things done, they begin to look for reasons. And also, you mentioned about budget release. Let's not also be oblivious to the fact that the budget though approved may not have been released. Yes, the federal minister of finance may not have given all the money to the National Population Commission as we think they gave them. It's possible also. So that is another thing that we need to understand because it's possible that they don't even have the money. So there are all sorts of reasons. But the bottom line here is that we have a commission that was unable to conduct the censors in accordance with the timeline that they have already published. Okay, let's talk about this money that has been earmarked for these censors. 1.8 billion US dollars. If you're going to say it in Naira, looking at 869 billion Naira. Well, Nigerians are not happy about this. A large section of Nigerians have criticized it. In fact, they are asking for a breakdown and public display of the breakdown so that people can take a look at it. Having analyzed the fact that Nigeria, say we have 203 million in population, is earmarking this kind of amount when India that has a population of 1.5 billion people used 417 million in 2021 to conduct their own censors. And then you go further. You have Brazil that conducted theirs in 2022. They have a population of 215 million people and they used just 450 million Pakistan as a population of 232 million people. They use 413 million in 2023 this year. But Nigeria with the population that's not up to any of theirs is earmarking 1.8 billion US dollars for this. How do you respond to the call by Nigerians asking for a list of the states and local government areas that will receive some of these allocations and public display of how this money that has been earmarked will be spent? I fully support those calls. I totally align myself with those calls. Nigeria is owned by all of us. We are shareholders in Nigeria. We are the shareholders. Those who are running Nigeria are the executive team. We hired them to run this entity for us. And it is their duty to report to us transparently what is happening. The figures you have read out now you can see that our budget in fact you converted the budget to about 869 billion and that is using the official the so-called official rate to convert it. If you convert it at the 700 plus that were actually buying dollar in the market it's over a trillion. So this country is trying to spend over a trillion to count us. Over a trillion to count 200 million people. That's a lot of money. And the data you have read out from other nationalities again is not a new thing to us. We already know that this is Nigeria where people come out and say all sorts of things. During COVID we heard how much was being used to feed schoolchildren. We have heard how much they used to buy fire trucks. We recently heard that they were or in fact they had already borrowed 800 million dollars to pay as palliatives to Nigerians for a few subsidy removers. Something that has not even happened. So a government is leaving the decision to remove few subsidy to the next government. But that government takes it upon themselves to go and borrow 800 million dollars and share to Nigerians on account of few subsidy removers. So if Nigeria was a human being, Nigeria would have long been dead because the quantum of corruption, the amount of blood that they are sucking out of this country, it would have let this country brain dead by sins. They don't just tell you how much God loves this country. Every day the people in government, what occupies them is how much they are going to take out of Nigeria. How much they are going to squeeze out of this system and setting the agenda for the incoming government. If they are coming in, they have to come in on the premise that they are our servants and we are the owners of Nigeria. And as servants they are accountable to us for every combo of our money that they are spending. So until we get government, who governments feed to the fire? Those who converse for our votes, fight over, kill and maim because they want our votes, they want to lead us. Until we put their feed to the fire and ask for accountability, demand for accountability from them, we are not going to have a Nigeria of our dreams and our youth will continue to jack up to other countries where you have such accountability play out. All right, let's look at the role that population census plays with regards to economy, with regards to the Nigerian economy, the equitable distribution of the nation's wealth. Tell me the role and how it can affect the sharing of our revenue and do you see any political undertone to the postponement that we've seen with regards to this census that should have taken place and we've not had it in 17 years? Let me address the political undertone before I then come to the role of a census. There is nothing that is capable of being ruled out in Nigeria. There's nothing. I will not say politics is not involved. Politics might as well be involved because we have heard in the past how population figures have been rigged. It's not only election figures that will rig, we also rig population figures as it has been alleged in the past. So it's possible that for some people they don't want a census to hold because they don't want Nigerians to know the number of people that are resident in each state as claimed. That is possible because if federal locations or even local governments and all of those kind of things are based on populations, then that means people are interested in rigging the figures or they don't want the population census to hold so that the true figures may not be known. It's also a reason. And now coming to the advantages of a population census. A population census is a key economic planning tool because you cannot be providing for people when you don't even know their numbers. Imagine that you are trying to buy food for household. I don't know the number of people that are in that household. Then you can see that you are in problem. You can either buy a little food or too much food. It will only be by luck that you just buy food that goes around everybody. So nations as well use population census as a very important economic planning criteria. I'll tell you one thing. Like here in the UK, the government uses population figures to know the social services that they need to provide for the citizens. So like in this area where I am now, I mean my local council is called Healington. So in Healington they know the population, they know the children that have been born and they know when those children would get into school when they are age five. And they are already looking at the capacity of schools around and determining whether by the time these children are ready to start their primary one at age five, whether the schools will contain them. And if the schools are not going to contain them, they are already building schools now or adding to existing schools now to account for those children when they are ready for school. The same thing they are doing for hospitals. The same thing they are monitoring to see whether they need to expand the roads, housing, they need to increase the housing, they need to increase the number of general practitioners that you have. Because you know here in the UK, health care is at three levels. Primary, secondary and tertiary. At primary level, every family has a doctor. You have your personal doctor, so there will be a doctor in the community where the people around that community go to. That's your first point of call. Is that doctor called a GP that must refer you to a hospital? You don't just walk into a hospital like that here. Your GP, your personal doctor must send you there except it's an emergency. So they are already planning how many, whether the GPs they have in that community are going to be enough. If they are not going to be enough, they are planning to increase the number to take care of the people who have been born, although also are migrating into the area. That's the kind of thing population data is useful. And so in Nigeria, population is expected to be heard every 10 years. And you see that the last population that was heard, I remember that population very well because I was in Portugal in 2006. Even though I was not counted, but I remember that population that was 17 years ago. So we should have had another population census in 2016. We didn't have it. And now in 2023, we are still having these issues. During that election, that census of that time you're talking about, did you see officials come to mark houses in preparation for the census? What's this way marked? Like I said, as at that time I was in Portugal. I was living in Portugal. I'm asking that question because in the buildup to this one, I haven't seen any houses being marked. But I don't know if it has to do with the deployment of technology that we've been told will be part of how this particular one would have been done. So this is the point. They say they are deployed technology. But the fact that they are deployed technology does not mean that there are some manual processes that should be eliminated. And this is the point where communication is very important. You see, when you are working on behalf of the people, you see the problem is that leadership in Nigeria don't think that they are working on behalf of the people. They think they are the lords and the people need to worship them. Otherwise, you need to communicate clearly to say, look, the last census in 2006, we didn't come to, we came to enumerate all the houses and we marked the houses that we have enumerated so that those who are coming behind us will not make the mistake of enumerating them. They were not going to do that this time because technology means that we have the maps, we have the maps of the area online so that people will understand. So I am totally not ruling out the fact that the National Population Commission itself was not ready. I'm not ruling out that. And if we were in center climes like here in the UK, we are speaking to you now, it's something of this magnitude in National Population Census could not hold. And people have already made plans based on the calendar and all of that of that time. And it does not hold. The parliament is going to carry out a public inquest into why this thing did not happen. Such that it will be very clear to people, like, see, we're sitting here, we're just thinking, okay, this could be the reason, this is the reason they are telling us it's not credible and all of that. And any question would have been heard because monies would have been spent to deploy people and all of that and all of that. And now that it has been postponed, when next is going to happen again, they are going to repeat spending those monies again to deploy people equipment and all of that. And somebody has to be heard accountable for that because that is money that has been wasted for which Nigerians have got no value from it. So they are needed to have been a public inquest into saying, why did this thing not happen? How much money was spent already? And how much money that would have to be spent again because of this postponement? And somebody would have been heard accountable for this until we start holding people accountable for their failures in office. It's not going to be where we're talking. So bottom line, you may not trust the figures that are being put out there that Nigeria's population has risen to. They say it's possible that Nigerian population is now 210 million. Can we believe this figure or is just a figure put out there for the benefit of some people who are selfish enough to try to distort the figures? At the risk of contradiction and grave error, I live in the UK now. And the population of the UK is at least 65 million now, they're about. And I know that UK is just like 25% of Nigeria in land mass. So UK, total UK that is made up of four countries of England, West, Scotland and Northern Ireland will go into Nigeria four times in terms of land mass. And there are 65 million people on this on this land. And I don't see the kind of population density that are seen in Nigeria in the UK. I don't see it. For you to see people, plenty, the way you see, you know, jeweled by a machine, you know, in the cage and all of that in the UK, you have to go to maybe something like Oxford Street, where shoppers, including tourists on the road, you know, pounding the street to try and shop and all of that. In the rest of the other parts of the UK and I have traveled widely here, you hardly see the kind of crowd you see in Nigeria that are on the road. So if I extrapolate, if I extrapolate UK, 25% land size on Nigeria, 65 million people to Nigeria, where everywhere you turn, you see human beings, I think if they count us properly, we could be approaching 300 million. Is my own personal judgment about it based on empirical evidence? So. Well, lack of data is really, really impacting on us negatively. It is possible that we are up to 300 million. It is also possible that we are not up to 200 million. But we should start talking about the needs to keep good data, keep good records in Nigeria, which we lack. Everybody just does things the way they want to do it. And you were in Potakot. Why were you not counted? I was wondering. I waited in my house with my family for the number of days they say we should remain at home. And nobody showed up. Absolutely nobody showed up. And I lived in on many Ezeku streets in an area that was popularly called Cookeen Village in Potakot just by artillery junction there. And they never came to our house. And then when I went to work, when I went to work after the population shutdown ended, in our office of maybe about 10 people, I think they only came to about two or three houses. The majority of us say nobody came to our house. So those are the issues with Nigeria. You give money to people, they don't do it, and they come out, they give you numbers. And nobody is being held accountable. So that's the problem. This is Alan. This is Alan. Welcome to Nigeria. Well, I think that's the much we can take from off the press. Oh, sorry, I said off the press. Well, from our topic, talking about population postponements of population sensors. I would like to thank you, Nika Gule, for coming on the program today. Thank you very much, Nigerians, and have a nice day. We are looking forward to the coronation of King Charles this weekend. I hope Plus TV is sending reporters. If you are not sending reporters, I can go and report at the venue for you. Please report for us. Report for us. And I understand that Tuwa Savage will also be there to represent Nigeria. So we are covered. Exactly. We are covered. Thank you, Nika Gule, for coming. Okay, we were talking about the postponement of the 2023 sensors by this administration. They say that the next administration should be in charge of that when they come in. And we're wondering where the monies that were already budgeted went and what went wrong, actually. And we're hoping there will be an inquest into that so that we get to know what really happened and when we are going to have the sensors. We'll take a break now and later on, or just in a moment, we'll be joined by somebody else, Tolani Thomas Allison, who will be talking on decisions that you need to take when setting up a business. Stay with us.