 Well, good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you very much for joining us here for what promises to be an interactive, engaging, a provocative, and an interesting session. We hope to make this a conversation about the potential that we see as far as the circular economy is concerned, what the challenges are, and what we need to do on several fronts to be able to realize the objectives. I was looking at a report that was put out by Accenture on taking advantage in a circular economy, and they've put down some numbers. Accenture's research indicates a 4.5 trillion reward for achieving sustainable businesses by 2030. They talk about not just waste in the traditional sense, but also about the enormous underutilization of natural resources. It also then goes on to talk about eliminating the concept of waste and recognizing that everything has a value and how that incorporates itself into a viable, profitable business model. That is what we intend to focus on today. We've got a great lineup of panelists here joining us today. Let me introduce you to them. Privahin Ibradu, founder, CEO of Blue Oak, in fact just raised what, $40 million to build mini-refine reefs, to recycle high-value metals from e-waste. Thank you very much for joining us here on the panel. Jasper Broden, CEO of IKEA. IKEA has been doing a lot of work and has been recognized for the work that you've done in the circular economy. So thank you very much for joining us. Lou Deshan, Chairman and Secretary of the Party Committee of China's Energy Conservation and Environmental Protection Group. Thank you very much for joining us here this morning. Eric Solheim, the Executive Director at the UN Environment Program. Thank you, Eric, for being here with us. And VK Sipsama, CEO and CMD of Royal DCM. Thank you very much for joining us here this morning. Privahin, let me start by asking you. As a young entrepreneur who's looking at the tangible advantages from a circular economy, what is the drivers? What is it going to take from a policy perspective, from a business perspective to get this moving? Thanks, Privahin, it's a pleasure to be here. Actually, before answering that question, what I wanted to lay out was, as an entrepreneur, as an innovator, what are the pillars that we see that either are changing or require change, a combination of both? And obviously, the first one is technology that's always sort of seen as the disrupted. New technologies bring changes in industries. The second one, in my view, are the business models. I think business models are changing, particularly in the waste and recycling sector. What's really interesting is waste by design is created locally. So it allows for distributed business models. It allows for creating local manufacturing sectors, local economies, which is the opposite of a lot of the centralized manufacturing that we see. The third pillar that I think of that requires constant innovation is finance and investment, because I think sustainability creates value. There's just absolutely no doubt about that. The question is over what timeframe. There are a lot of conversations that are being had about that, not just in this Davos, but in prior years as well. I think it's just this ongoing effort of making sure that there is enough capital that cares about creating value in the long term and cares about companies that last for the next 100 years, not the next five. The fourth pillar, which kind of builds on that, is policy. And where policy can be really helpful is actually creating drivers and enabling nascent industries and allowing for some of this behavior that is focused on the long term rather than short term. I mean, it's always cheaper to dump something in the landfill, but it's not better in the long run. It's not cheaper in the long run. So I think pricing these externalities is something that policy does well. And then the fifth and final one, which is actually really interesting to me, is consumer behavior. And I think just changing consumer behaviors, that some of it happens inherently. For example, as a millennial, something that's really interesting to me is how values are at the heart of what drive millennials, not necessarily just economics or affordability. It's truly values and sharing just an anecdote and then I'll sort of end. In our business, when I started Blue Oak, it was really an e-waste recycling company. We extracted precious metals from e-waste. I think what's been fascinating is the amount of interest that we've gotten from the luxury goods industry because their consumers really care about not wearing a wedding band that was mined and 50 people died in the process. They really care about those values in their purchasing positions. And I think that's feeding back into what's become a key driver for us is trying to tap into those values and not just being a manufacturing company or a technology company, but a consumer-focused company. Well, thank you so much, Praveenia, for laying up the context for the conversation that we want to have this morning. I want to pick up on one of the pillars that you talked about. And Jesper Brodin, let me put that point to you. From a policy perspective, what do you believe are the imperatives today to ensure that we actually realize the gains and the advantages of creating the circular economy? So I think the... And beyond subsidies from governments. Okay, that was my proposal otherwise. So good. I think everybody, companies, organizations have to start with themselves and their commitment to what I think you expressed also to the long-term development. IKEA being rooted in the deep forest of southern Sweden has part of its culture that waste is a sin. So that's why the flat packs, that's why a lot of the innovation that has come over 75 years with the company. But we are at the point where we realize, and in the dialogue we have with our consumers, that we need to be the champions for our consumers. The insights are growing. I can witness it's not only the luxury brands, but it's people in general are educated. They're caring. And we are as well. So we see ourselves as a champion for how we can find ways and make it possible for people. So the policies start with ourselves for sure. So what is it that you've done within IKEA to ensure that you do see better utilization, that you do cut down on waste? What are the key things that you've been able to do? Well, over the history of IKEA and the recent history also, I think a lot of focus, which is naturally where you start with what you can control yourself. So there has been a lot of activities within IKEA to find better, smarter designs, make it possible for products to be not only designed to put together, but how do you separate products because circularity is a design question that goes across. And recently we are at the stage where we're testing and trying many things. We are testing to buy back products. In Japan we have a big test where we're buying back so fast mattresses and more. We're testing different ways of using the network of all our stores and distribution as a reversed flow. But we lack a couple of components, which is something why we are here to reach out to other stakeholders in society because we can't do all of it on our own. No, we need much more collaboration. Eric, let me ask you then from a policy perspective and IKEA here talking about the initiatives that they've been able to take forward individually as a corporation, Praveeni gave us some ideas as well. From a policy perspective, what is the ask or the expectation from governments? Mainly I think regulations. Also research and driving the change. But I think we need a broad theory of change, which is basically what we heard here and you said it well, but let me put it in some other words. When you see rapid change for the environment, but basically on any other areas, three components come together. One, citizens. Citizens must be mobilized and put pressure on business and politics, otherwise nothing works. Those are the consumers, the voters, the supporters. You need them. And when there is a strong push from society, it creates miracles. Secondly, you need governments to regulate markets, to set direction, to put up the vision, to mobilize, to make platforms. And thirdly, you need the private sector because nearly all the new innovations, the new technologies, the new business practices will come from the private sector. These three combined is a formidable force. On the second aspect of governments, what is the experience at this point in time? How much of this is now a top priority for governments around the world in being able to address this challenge? Let me narrow into one area where we have been particularly active in the last year, which is plastics. I mean, we see the enormous, horrendous plastic pollution into the oceans. Every citizen on the world understands we need to change. We will have the same weight of plastic as the weight of fish by 2050 if we don't change. So we need to change. Well, I mean, we have worked with a number of African governments, Kenya, for instance, they just prohibited plastic bags. It was a brave decision. They were in doubt. They thought maybe the Kenyan people are not ready for it. But they did it and, surprise, surprise, people were very much in favor. And we see immediate results. And a very good conversation, which I think links into this with President Kagame of Rwanda. I will claim that Rwanda is now the cleanest place on planet Earth. Really? Not even Japan or Switzerland can compare. You don't see one paper on the streets, not one chocolate paper, ice cream paper on the streets of Rwanda, not the chewing gum, no, nothing. How did that miracle happen? Well, it came from the president, from President Kagame. He said, every Rwandan historically kept clean at home. That's normal. Nearly all Rwandans also kept clean in their own garden. What we needed to do was to take that attitude to the society at large. And of course, establish system so that it was possible for people to keep clean. And what Rwandans now tell us, yes, it started with the President Kagame, but now it's gone into our blood. We don't simply don't do it anymore. Yeah, well, that's a good point that you make and congratulations to Rwanda. You know, that's a wonderful story that you've shared with us. And I think it does come down to political leadership. And we're seeing that in India as well with Prime Minister Modi and the Swach Bharat campaign that he's launched there. So hopefully this will be a top priority item for most governments. But let me ask you about what you're doing in China and from a policy perspective, what are the things that have worked? What hasn't worked? China does attach a lot of importance to policies and China has make a lot of policies, laws in terms of dealing with the recycling economy to try our best to have more and more used stuffs to be reused. For example, the policies to encourage the getting back the metals and the valuable materials from the used cars, from the e-waste. There are some progress in this period, in this field, but still not enough policies encourage incentives. It is important for the business model. Otherwise, if economically not possible, it's not successful. So fiscal incentives are necessary to basically nurture businesses within the system. Like the policy to, just I think it's last year published, to encourage people to classify the garbage, those type of policies and incentives to buy the local government to encourage public or private business to give them more favorable treatment for example, lower price of land and tax refunded, those type of policies to encourage. Excellent. Let me end on the policy issue with a point of view from you before we move on to the other issues. Right. Well, let's first define the issue. The issue is that we consume more and more although we become more efficient, we still use more of our scarce raw materials in the world and that will continue to increase. So we have a so-called shortest, artificial shortest of materials and we create a huge pile of waste. Now, do we have a real shortest of molecules in this world? That is not true because it's not true that at night people from Mars are stealing our molecules. All molecules remain on Earth. The only thing is we get the molecules if I take a lot of metals. We take them out of Africa, they are well organized in mines. We take them out of the mines, we put them in our mobile phones, we throw it away and we mix it with all kinds of other garbage. And by the way, we bring it back to Africa. That is what society does and we dump it there. The circular economy. Exactly. And this is the so-called circular economy but not really circular. Because, and it is Jesper's point, we should design differently our whole supply chain and if we design that differently and think upfront that we don't want to have it ended up in Africa mixed with all kinds of other ingredients but think smart, then we can prevent and recycle it endlessly if we do that smart. Now, for example, take the biggest, you mentioned that the biggest landfill activities in the United States, that is carpets. Carpets are made out of many materials. When the carpets are ready and you don't use them anymore, you dump them somewhere in the US and you use it for landfill. It is almost impossible to split all the different materials, it's very costly. It's not well designed to make it only out of one material because then you could recycle it. Now, what we have done amongst others is developing carpets out of one single material. So you don't need to dump it, you can easily put it in the machine again and make the new carpet out of that. Niaga, we call it. If you say it in the reverse way, you see again. Yes. That is a way of looking to carpets. The next step is, and you discussed it also, are the consumers really interested in this? Have the consumers mindset that they like it? The millennials more. It's changing also. However, I think we need to build in also a stronger financial, maybe economic incentive. And why, for example, carpets? Why should you own the carpet? Maybe you just rent the carpet and if the manufacturer of the carpet can use your carpet as an input, then you could say, rent the carpet. Don't buy any carpets in the rest of your life anymore, just rent it. And with those kind of models, you already built in an economic incentive, you built in consciousness with the consumers that they maybe don't own the stuff, but they will own the stuff collectively and recycle it. I think you've raised a very important point, and Praveen, let me ask you to comment on that. You know, the imperative of shared platforms to ensure that the circular economy grows and grows meaningfully, how significant of a development is this? You know, actually, it's something that I care very deeply. I mean, I think it's the uberification of everything, right? I think part of it actually requires sort of rethinking what we, when we think of the circular economy, what's at the heart of it? Is it just recycling? Is it reuse? To me, sort of the clearest definition in my mind is the most efficient use of resources, which can happen through the recycle, refurb, reuse kind of cycle. It can also happen by having multiple uses of the same resource as the sharing economy or the renting economy, you know, as demonstrated. Particularly on the sharing and renting economy, I think what's really interesting and how it ties into waste or reduction of waste is if you look at a lot of historical businesses, if you look at cars, when Ford made cars, they were made to last and then the innovation in cars were made cars to break, right? And the same thing we've sort of heard from Apple that they're making phones slower, perhaps to sell more phones, who knows. But the interesting thing is, as we move from ownership to renting to leasing, the same companies that were incentivized to make things break will now be incentivized to make things last because they actually want those things to last as long as possible. They don't want that to go away because now you're sort of reusing that. So I think even from the waste standpoint, it will eventually have an effect and a pretty significant one. I think there's two important points that we brought up here. One, of course, is the power of the shared economy. And the other was the aspect of product life extension, which you just talked about. Jasper, you know, you want to pick up on both these? And, you know... I have to... I can't resist those commenting because I think some of the insights, I must just applaud the examples of also when we are taking steps in society to becoming cleaner. But that doesn't mean we have solved the problem because we don't see it. So I think the fundamental problem that Fakir's onto as well is really about accepting the scale of the issue that we were part of in the consumerist. I, for myself, didn't know about the issue about the oceans until far too recently. So if it's out of sight, it might also be something that you put in denial. So what I believe in, and I would like to comment on, so to say, I think it would be a mistake to have one line approach to it because as much as there are maybe companies and organizations who resist being part of this journey, I think more and more companies want to be part of it and want to step in. And there I think the debate is more about how do you resolve, how do you zoom in on the potentials and not oversimplify problems? Plastic is an amazing material if it's sanded in the right way to the point that you can reuse. It's virgin one time, but it's actually something that can be used again and again and again. And one of the major issues that we sit with today is that we don't know how to resolve the technical issues on contamination. So it's technical, but when we crack that and how we can crack that together, we will be able to close the loop in better ways. Did I answer your question? No, you did not. You want to give it another stab? What was the question? I will see my mind. Yes, you were thinking of a completely different question, weren't you? You said we should be the dynamics, so I lost myself. OK, so let me state my question again. On the two points that were made about the sharing economy, as well as extending product life cycles, what can companies do? Yes. Well, first of all, I think to the extension of lifetime, I think it first sits with us. We're a big company. We want to serve the many people. We are interested of people with thin wallets. There will be more people in this planet to deserve to have a lovely home, a functional home. And we take it on ourselves to be the one who provides great and long lasting solutions. But then you can say in the continuous prolongation of a lifetime, how do you care for your products? How do you upgrade them? How do you also? How can we be part of stimulating ourselves or through any kinds of eBay platforms, et cetera, that the IKEA products can be used over and over again? So fundamentally, it sits with us. But then to stimulate that behavior with our consumers. And we see an increasing interest. It's the new cool today is to recycle and to reuse. So we want to be part of that movement. Well, it's the new cool to recycle. But I want to go back to the point that you made about a circular supply chain. And I think that throws up interesting questions because it will mean disrupting the current way that our supply chains function and are organized. What are the big challenges that you foresee there? Well, if you redesign the supply chain, take carpets. But I have numerous other examples in our company in World List 102. What you're doing then is you disrupt the current industry. The carpet industry is a very well-organized industry already for decades and decades and works in a certain way. And if we will design it in a different way, you won't own your carpet. You will recycle. You will not use it for landfill. You will bring it back to the same factory. You will make it out of one material, not out of many materials, et cetera, et cetera. You disrupt entirely this industry. And people don't like disruptions in this world. They want to keep the anchors as they have it. Although they don't realize if the anchors are stiff, your boat is not sailing very far. But still, you need to lift your anchors and to change your industries. And it counts for many, many industries. Because the whole concept that we had is we dig stuff out of the ground. We process it. We consume it. And the rest, we throw away as waste. And this whole concept should be changing. So disruption of industries is a very important element. What we do, agriculture, is a lot of agricultural waste. People keep it on the land. And when the waste is too much, they put it into fire and create CO2. What we now do in the US, which we take a lot of the agricultural waste, we take it off the land. We go to the farmers. They say, can we go to your land and take away your waste and pay you? They said, I beg your pardon? Do you pay for our waste? Yes, we pay for your waste. And we take it away even. They say, your garden is very welcome, very welcome. Good. And we process it to new forms of green energy. Really? Yes, it's possible. But you, again, you change the way farmers operate in this case. And numerous of those are kind of examples. We need to realize less than 10%, maybe between 5% and 10% of our total economy is a little bit circular. So more than 90% is speaking about showing it away. So the circularity gap, as I call it, is huge, but also the circularity opportunity. But people need to understand you will disrupt their wealth with every supply chain. Well, Eric, to pick up on that point of how do we breach the circular deficit, so to speak, or the circular gap, capital was an issue that we talked about. What would be the other key challenges that you see that would come in the way of being able to capitalize on the opportunity and not plug the gap? I think Feike is pointing to a very central issue. Whatever can be turned into a new business opportunity is much more likely to happen. I mean, what he just described is, to me, largely the solution to the problems you have in Delhi. Because the main source of pollution in Delhi is not like in China. It's not coal. It's agriculture waste, which is burned in the neighboring states, so Haryana, Uttar Pradesh, et cetera. Farmers are burning it. Because if that can be turned into green energy, someone come to the farm and picked it up and turn it into a new business opportunity, maybe with a government subsidy, I cannot tell how much economy there is in this. Then the problem would disappear and there would be a new opportunity for society rather than the opposite. And if I allow me one other thought, because we were talking about the sharing economy. And at the core of that is the new technical opportunity. We are partnered with MoBike, a Chinese company, which is one of the two now global leading companies in bike sharing. Two years back, they had a shareholder value of 40,000 US dollars. Now it's something like 3 billion US dollars, like that. They're opening in Paris this week as a soft launch. They're going all over the world. But they don't define themselves as a bike company, because the bike technology is 100 years old. What is new is the information technology. So they define themselves as an information technology company, because it's the fact that you can take up this one, go out in the street of Beijing and Shanghai, but very soon in any street in Europe, you just use GPS, figure out where is the nearest bike, then you open the bike with your phone, you take it to your grandmother or to your workplace, and you leave it there. It's a completely new way of operating society, but at the core is the new technologies, and they can be applied in so many other areas. And I think that is at the heart of what we're talking about, Praveenie. So when we talk about disruptive digital technologies, being able to aid the circular economy and perhaps bridge the gap that we were just talking about, whether it's 3D printing, connected devices, what we just heard here from a sharing perspective, what do you see as being the drivers from a technology perspective as we go forward? So I actually want to, on the technology point before directly answering your question, I want to tie in your earlier point about supply chains, because that's a really interesting aspect where technology can have a really critical role. And I've wandered in the last 12 months if it's possible to have any conversation without bringing up blockchain. I think it's not. But when you think of supply chains, one of the issues in the circularity of supply chains is that there is no transparency and there is no accountability. And the reason for that is it's so easy for things to leak towards the lowest common denominator. When you look at, for example, e-waste being generated in the US, the issue is not often the intent of parties. It's often just where it leaks in the system. There's no way to trace that. And the same is true on the front end. People actually want to buy responsibly, but you just have no way today of guaranteeing sourcing and where stuff is coming from. And so when you take a technology, it could be blockchain, it could be blockchain 2.0, it could be another iteration that allows for immutability and transparency and secure security. But I think that those kind of innovations in technology can actually allow an aid circularity. Back to your original question, just in terms of generally the trends of technology, I sort of think of technology, the technologies that can sort of assist circularity falling into two baskets, usually a combination of both. One is project technologies. So you build a facility, then you build another facility. So you're sort of project-oriented. You build a new store, as you guys I heard, are launching in India. So that's sort of a project aspect of it. The second part of it is platform technologies. And so, for example, there are companies in the US right now that are actually looking at big data and in terms of being able to sort of see and track where waste is being generated, how companies can better manage their assets and where they're disposed and when they're disposed. And usually it's a combination of both. So I think those are sort of the vectors that I see technology development happening in. Yeah. Yeah, you want to come in with that? I think it's a very important point. If it's with the forum, the force industrial revolution, and we should realize that we are developing technologies nowadays, which makes these kinds of things possible. I mean, if I look to converting agricultural waste into green energy, I don't know. Chief innovation of the sitting here. Seven years ago, we were discussing, is it possible because the agricultural waste, to confirm that in green energy, is technologically very complicated? Is that possible or not? And he and his people believe that is possible. Many people said, now that it's technologically impossible, we can prove that to you. Still, they have proven it is possible. We have a factory in Iowa, in the US, it's working. So it is possible. So two things are happening at the same moment. We have all kinds of technologies, 3D printing, biotechnology, all kinds of things which are developing, making those solutions possible. Secondly, we have the digital revolution. With digital revolution, which makes sharing models, different ownership models, different ways of administrating those things possible. If you combine those two technological developments from the digital part, and from the hardcore technology part, then great solutions possible. And I think this technological angle is a very important one to this. It is a very important angle. You guys have the technologies available to process the straws, the agriculture-based... Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay, let's talk about it. Okay. Thanks for this panel. Can I interrupt it? Because before you... Do you have enough that you want to make it well? Yeah, before you shake hands, we have developed technology, and we're interested to actually make furniture out of cellulose fibers. So we have to have a trick of discussion here. We make a three-way conversation. Yes, a three-way conversation. Why don't you give me your A-way? All right, so we've created a little bit of a circular economy here as well. But I want to address the issue of scale, because each one of us has talked about individually what your corporations are doing, as entrepreneurs, what you're doing. But for all of this to be meaningful, for all of this to have a significant impact, it needs to be done on scale. What's the big problem that you've faced as you've talked about scaling up and as you've tried to execute scaling up on some of these initiatives that you've taken forward? Just like the treatment of the agricultural waste. The business model is so far it's not successful. So technology, we don't have the feasible technologies to treat the straws, the crops, crops, stocks, and even the manures from poultry. We tried several years, but technology doesn't work. The business model doesn't work. The cost is too high, and the product we produce is just the natural gas and the fertilizers. But it's too expensive, so it doesn't work. The business model doesn't work. How do we ensure that this becomes a viable proposition? How do we drive down costs, which is the challenge that he's faced with? My point on scale is going to be around scale. It's obviously in business models and technologies. I wanted to briefly touch on consumer mindset and something that would be interesting for the West to learn from a lot of eastern economies. The concept of waste, my parents are Indian, and the concept of waste really doesn't exist. People truly see value in every part of whatever product or ecosystem they're using, and I think that's been a part of that DNA for generations. You can actually extract value from every part of whatever you're using. What's interesting is as you have more and more people going up in the middle class and gaining wealth, whether some of those behaviors are actually regressing into saying it's okay to have a disposal mindset. As we try to think about achieving scale, in addition to technology and in addition to business model, how do you scale back this disposal mindset and really think about we need to incentivize or penalize both creating circularity and deterring from disposal? I would like to build on that if possible and get Eric in this one, because an essential element is that waste is for free. Our governmental models are like that. You can waste. You can put for free CO2 into the air and creating a big burden for the next generation. Now I'm working hard together with Catherine McKenna of Canada, the Canadian environmental minister, to put a price on carbon and not make that for free. There are many other forms of waste, which we as mankind treat for free. I'm involved in another project. It's called The Ocean Cleanup, an initiative of a Dutch boy when he was 18 years old. He's now 22 and at his own, he's cleaning up the mess of many generations and getting the plastic out of the oceans. He needs a couple of hundreds of millions of dollars. It is in the middle of the ocean and not any government, nobody, not any consumer feel themselves responsible. He is now collecting money from philanthropists in order to get it done that somebody cleans up because he said it is ridiculous that there's not being cleaned up. Here is something, and maybe Eric can help us here, but there's something wrong in our model that we feel the freedom to create such a waste burden for next generations nobody feels responsible for. Absolutely, just one comment on what she said because you described it very well, but it's not just in India. My grandparents never threw away anything in Norway. Even for my mother it was very, very, very hard for her to throw away any food. She felt that you don't do that. That's immoral. I frowned to the world's poor instead I frowned to what she had experienced in Norway during the Second World War. She would never do it now, but our aim is to bring everyone into the global middle class. And then we will have, of course, a huge, huge, huge issue. Two thoughts about the solution. Obviously, governments need to find ways to either prohibit or to put levies and taxes on what we don't need. That's what we do in the rest of society and we need to do it here. But another avenue to some of the same I think is also the enormous opportunity to share information. I admit I think China is now a head of Europe or any other place when it comes to the mobile phone as the platform for intervention so that internet trade in China is now 11 times the United States, so China is ahead. But on this phone, of course, you can get information when you go into, say, IKEA. IKEA can provide all supply chain information about the furniture and make sure that it was... I mean, I know you are doing well, but that is not coming from reinforced which is cut down or that the entire supply chain is acceptable. The customer can't know. We are now developing, hopefully, the WWF apps which can assist the customers in getting all these sorts of information. Not all will use it, but if 20% of the customers are using it, it has an immediate important effect on the markets. Right. Let me then try and get in some questions here from the audience. If you have a question, if you could raise your hands, we'll get a microphone across to you. Yes, we've got one right here. Hello, my name is Karolina Saks. I'm from Axe Foundation, Stockholm, Sweden. And I have a question regarding towards IKEA. I was wondering, are you prepared to rent your furniture since you pay for the raw material once and you don't want to pay for it once again? Are you renting furniture already? We are not renting, but if you mean renting out furniture to our customers. We actually have started to test it. So we are at a moment where we, like I think all of us, don't have one solution for the problem. So what we decided to do is that we will speed up our journey towards mass circularity. If the last decade, decades has been about mass consumerism, how can we get to a point of mass circularity? So we're testing rental solutions. It seems at this moment, even if it's a bit early that it's very different depending on which city and place you are, the interest is. In some areas, what we discover, for example, in London, there are a lot of people who commute and they are not interested in building with passion a second home, for example. So rental there is more interesting. In some other areas not. But regardless of the way we serve you as a customer, if it's renting or if it's buying, for us, still, the same topic remains at the end of a life cycle. How do we close the loop? What type of technology? I'm convinced, like my friends on the stage here, that information technology will help us. But ultimately, it comes down to ficus molecules, I think. So disruptive also production concepts will be part of the solution where we can bring maybe production and reproduction back closer to the markets. And some of those ideas exist. Some of them are being tested also in our ecosystem. But at this moment, to the dialogue, the curse doesn't match any yet. And the scaling will actually be one of the ways where we've got some incentives to be able to move that with the high speed. It's going to happen, but it's moving too slow. More questions here for our panelists? Yes. Right here at the back. I'm a global shaper, and I just want to run a story by you. So my work takes me to the remote villages in India where I see there's no waste generation. Absolutely no waste. The communities I've been living sustainably. Now when you start trading up these communities, waste comes in. So children start buying noodles. They start buying toffee wrappers, and there's some plastic that gets generated. Go to a city. You find every trip to the supermarket produces so much waste. And then this is just India. We are on the growth curve. And if you look at Indian and African countries, we are going to grow. We are going to increase our waste. Now there's a developed world with the US and the Europe where there's already so much waste. There's an interesting statistic in the foyer there where they show that the ways that we are producing is nowhere even closer to what US and Europe are doing right now. So there are already that mistakes that have been done. How can we learn from those mistakes and not do the same things? Because then ultimately we see that this waste is going to get generated. Knowing that it's there, what can we do to collect it right now rather than repent in the future? So how do we do things differently? What do we learn from the experience of the developed world? Repeat the same mistakes. I'll come to you first and then I'll come to you. Well first of all, maybe not everybody is used to the concept of the shapers. I found it important that we have shapers, young people, millennials sitting here and joining the discussion with all kinds of global world leaders, CEOs of big companies and governmental leaders because we, a lot of people here in Davos are 50, 60 years plus to be honest. And they're just shaping a world so they're disrupting Davos now. They might not be part of it. And those people will be part of the world we will be shaping. So I found it important that they are here. But indeed the advantage of countries like India is that, please, don't copy exactly the West. Do make a leapfrog and install systems in a different way. Like you did in your telephone network. I mean, the fixed landlines in telephones. You don't build that in India. And why should you? I mean, you immediately leapfrog to the next phase. And you should do that in many areas. On top of that, we should realize that consumers are still working a little bit against this whole trend. And I think the awareness is important. Don't we all love this small packaging of shampoos? It's easy to travel and all those adorable small things. We like small things quite a bit that creates more packaging more waste than ever before. So we need to realize in our consumption pattern and here, to be honest, also India should learn. But it boils down to price, right? I mean, a sachet of shampoo is accessible and affordable at that price point to a majority of Indians which would otherwise not be able to access a large bottle of shampoo. Hey, you made a very good and very important point. Shampoo manufacturers would say and I'm in the board of one so they would absolutely say we make it affordable in the small sachets too many and I totally agree with that and I totally agree with the people who buy it in small pieces. The only thing is we need to think very carefully about how we package and how we bring that to the people and maybe as a refill or whatever. At the price we create an even bigger burden of waste and this guy, Boyan Slut who's cleaning up the oceans on behalf of all of us will be busy to the end of his life. And it's only 22. Yes, go ahead Eric. No, we are working a lot on plastic and of course these will come in different sort of plastic bottles. I think we need to, number one, there are a number of products we simply don't need which we can abolish. For example, these are microbeads which were just abolished in the United Kingdom and many other governments we don't need them. There's no purpose that can be easily replaced. Let's just, the government can just stop it. Straws, do we need straws? The average North American is using 600 straws a year and an enormous amount of them are ending up in the oceans and there is no real need. Then there is a lot of plastic products we do need to preserve for other food longer or for bottles or whatever but maybe they are also even the shampoo bottles but it goes in my view beyond any logic that they cannot be made in a biodegradable and a much better way. By the way, Danone and Nestlé just announced that by 2020 all their bottles will be 100% biodegradable and even maybe more interesting they also said that that technology will be given out for free to anyone who takes an interest. They will not make it a competitive advantage but I make it a global public good. Amazing. Let's look into it happening and then of course there is a huge number of plastic products of a character we can only recycle to make say the cars lighter which is very good because then they consume less energy but we need to separate something we don't need, let's get rid of it something we don't need to replace something we need to recycle. Excellent and with that we are pretty much out of time here on this panel so let me start by getting each of you to give us one idea for 2018 that you hope whether it's a government or a corporation or the social sector that you would like one single idea that you would most like to see go forward in 2018. Eric, I'll start with you. Sharing I spoke about sharing sharing of bikes is taken on like a prayer prayer fire because there is a demand from consumers and they can handle it and I'm sure we can share in so many other areas. I would say that if every consumer stakeholder, entrepreneur, business leader government you know, anyone in the government sector I think we can all sort of move to really embracing intergenerational thinking I think that's really really important you know I think just a segue to the previous question that ties in is you know 100 years ago maybe dumping arsenic into the ground was completely acceptable, people didn't think about it and yet it's ludicrous to think that that ever happened because it affects us in our lifetime and in our it affects us. I think expanding that circle to the next generations not just of humans but of all living beings of the planet I think is really important and there was a quote that was made on one of the panels yesterday which I want to sort of end with is in a losing planet there can be no winning company and I found that you know just it's really stuck with me. I think that's a very valid point that you make so let me get your idea for 2018. One idea. This is going to be so difficult but I think my idea would be on a different maybe horizon I think we need to find platforms for sharing solutions not only ideas because I think what we have witnessed here only in a couple of minutes is that there is an awareness in the world that is increasing about the problem so we have to stimulate more knowledge in that but there is enough awareness and enough willingness to act so if we can also spend less time in maybe pondering about the problems and more time in looking at great solutions that has been talked about here and see how can we scale that and how can we share for example the solutions so the idea for my side would be platforms for sharing good solutions. Excellent. Your idea for 2018. I think I hope that it's got better for the public to improve their awareness who have more understanding on recycling economy that is good for the public for individuals. And I will end with you. Appreciate you quote me the little quote you used is you cannot be successful in a world that fails and I appreciate you quote that and what I would say be provocative be disruptive and go home, discuss your business look to your supply chain and don't take it for granted the way it is designed now and try to disrupt your own business before other people will do it. Well I think that is the perfect note to end this conversation on disrupt, collaborate and share that I think the themes that have emerged from this conversation that we've had today to ensure that we do move to a circular economy which currently is 10% but hopefully in the next 5 or 10 years we see that number improve dramatically. Thank you very much for joining us here. Thank you to all of our guests for joining us here for this morning. Thank you very much.