 I would have waited for somebody to call the meeting to order The committee of the whole is called to order and thank you Salis for reminding me I was sitting here waiting for somebody to call the meeting to order Thank you so much and somebody asked me how should you be addressed I thought well Madam chairman and I've been waiting to say this for weeks. So not only am I one of the city fathers I am now a madam Well, you call them all please D-Burg here Davis excused Rob excused Kittleson Nanny here Meyer here Radke here Sigale here Stefan excuse Susha. Yeah, man. Acre. Yeah, then do we York here 12 presents for excuse for Ms. Present will proceed This evening. We're addressing two issues. I think you have your agendas and you have The RO in front of you and the resolution We're going to talk about our own number 57 0506 Agenda number 4 39 by the city clerk Submitting a communication from Susan Hundley requesting that the Common Council consider in closed session the settlement offer that was submitted on October 18 2004 regarding the room tax litigation as she believes before an appeal is filed It would be a gesture of goodwill to give the new council the opportunity to consider the settlement offer We're also going to take up the discussion of resolution number 29 0506 Agenda number 476 by Alderman Manny Relating to the city contract with the Chamber of Commerce relating to tourism promotion and Alderman Manny's resolution Means we will discuss and decide if we're going to create a study committee. That's the only thing we're deciding on that tonight Alderman Serda Thank You madam chairman Before we get started just for house rules because there is a Some because we're being asked to go into closed session I would make a motion that Alderman Sushia be giving her presentation to the council in open session and Also, too, I would open the floor to Dee Olson from the Chamber of Commerce to as questions arise during that process I We have a motion and a second we'll have a roll call vote on that and the motion is To not allow Alderman Sushia to give her presentation in closed session and The second part of the motion is to have Dee Olson speak to us correct for questions and answers those two parts I means saying no Beaver I'm sorry discussion discussion discussion. Yes. Is there a discussion? Thank you Manny Alderman Manny. Thank you. I'm not sure I stand yet. I want to hear some conversation On the top of my head. I wondered about each one being heard in closed session is one other alternative And we could also call each one back perhaps with further questions that we might have they could make Their statements and we could ask questions that person would leave the next one to come in We could deal with it in that way as well. Perhaps That might be broader it It might be an alternative way to look at it. I'm not sure what I think yet Thank You Alderman Manny Alderman Sigali Thank You madam chairman I think this should be an open session because I know a lot of people are very interested in this topic And I think since we are talking about open government I think all of this needs to be brought out in the open and what better way of doing this to hear these two Ladies speak on something that is affecting all the taxpayers in the city Thank You and Alderman Sigali Alderman Dan Burke Thank You madam chair like Alderman Sigali said Everything was in the newspaper Whatever we had in our packet was in the newspaper. It's been on WHPL. Everybody's been talking about it the I don't see why we have to go into closed session and Do any talking because everything's out in the open here now let the people that are here Listen, and we have got the TV. Don't we they should be able to hear and see whatever we're doing here Thank You Thank You man. Thank You Alderman Dan Burke Alderman Silas Vanderwill. Thank You madam chairman I just wanted to say that historically The discussion would happen before closed session Then if we had questions, we will call them in the closed session And I just want everybody to be careful not to treat Alderman Susha differently because she's an alderman in this case She's a citizen So I think when she talks she'll be a citizen. So that's how we should treat her as a citizen as an alderman. Thank You Thank You. Thank You man Alderman Vanderwill Alderman Ratke Thank You madam chairman as this question is basically directed to the city attorney Mr.. City Attorney is it not wise when there's a case of litigation case Pending to go behind closed doors and discuss that amongst their cells rather than in the open I'm kind of new to this but we're trying to read the newspaper You know they've settled this or that and it's been done behind closed doors where The people have been free to talk and get things done properly rather than trying to hold back and you know So things don't get brought out in the open that shouldn't get brought out in the open Can I get your opinion on that? Thank you Well the The item is put on as a closed session And it's for the purpose of conferring with legal counsel Who's rendering oral advice concerning strategy to be adopted by the city with respect to the room tax litigation which is involved? That's that's what the exemption From the open Meeting law is all about it. It's that sort of a narrow purpose To confer with your legal counsel to talk about strategy concerning this litigation. I I Guess my opinion to you is that it's best to confer with your legal counsel in closed session You know unfortunately the nature of litigation is it's somewhat adversarial there's two sides and And I guess But it's up to the council I mean the council doesn't have to vote to go into closed session and I guess I'll discuss what I can in open session if you Don't want to do that. It's it's you know really for For the council's benefit, but I feel it's incumbent on me to advise you that I would recommend going into closed session Thank You attorney see you clean Alderman Radke Thank you madam chairing one of the question I have it's just a quick follow-up In this letter here we have how much of this has actually been out in the open I mean the paper been talking about the paper has been talking about it But actually how much of this information is public information at this point from this this attorney that are Representing Miss Hunley Missouche. Thank you. Well that document was submitted to council. It's a public document It's a it's a public record. So You know whether everybody's seen it or not is not really the issue, but it's it's a it was submitted as a public document It wasn't submitted just Like to me in confidence or anything Alderman Sarada, thank you madam chairman I think we're talking about two separate issues here My motion was that alderman Susha speak to the council in an open session because she has been party to this legal matter and We as a city correct me if I'm wrong Mr. McLean we're not currently in litigation in a sense that we've already won and what I'm asking is when Alderman Susha gives her presentation that that information should be shared with the citizens, but more importantly if Questions arise and I know alderman Manny had Suggested maybe taking one person in and out. I think it's more beneficial to have D. Olson present that way If if issues are specific to the chambers responsibilities, we can address those at that time without having this You come in you leave and I think it would be more time effective and just what is your discretion? I I know me and alderman Susha have been professional We've talked about this and we both are on opposite sides of the fence as far as I feel It's a conflict of interest for her to be speaking to us in closed session Once we get to that point where we're talking about going into open and close and again That's something separate. My motion is a little bit different than that. We can go there But what are your thoughts about alderman Susha speaking to us? I don't know as the citizen had or the alderman had to us in closed session Is that a conflict of interest? Thank you Yes My advice there is to the extent Alderman Susha wants to be heard tonight That if the council wishes to hear her that should be heard in open session I don't think it fits under The call of the closed session Confirmed with legal counsel who's rendering oral advice concerning strategy. I think it's it's basically the Explanation perhaps or clarification of the settlement offer that really isn't In the call for the closed session Yes, number two typically, you know, it's it's an awkward situation you get an older person who's Also it named Establishment is a named party and lost it against the city There and and one one of the issues that is in their settlement offer is Directly financial in nature. They're asking The plaintiffs are asking for their attorney fees to be reimbursed. That's a substantial sum of money that In effect alderman Susha is asking the council for so You know even outside of the financial though the whole nature of the litigation I think there's a conflict and And what advise alderman Susha not to participate in the Discussion of the deliberation and especially not do so in closed session I think to the extent the council as I said before wishes to hear from alderman Susha as to What she's got to say about the case or whatever I would I Would say you could allow her to do that in open session if if you choose, but I I Do see a conflict of interest in Going much farther than that other than you know beyond perhaps presenting some information any other discussion Clarify Alderman Serra. Thank you, madam chairman. Would you like me to clarify on the motion? Well if I understand it correctly Your motion is to prohibit alderman Susha from speaking in closed session to us and Also, you wanted D. Olson to be able to speak with us. Correct. It's a two-part motion And may I also ask that there would be a roll call vote on this issue? Thank you Alderman Susha Thank You madam chair. I think that one of the things I need to bring to everybody's attention Is that during my presentation? I will be talking about private citizens I will be talking about city employees and I will be also talking about some of the action of these city employees as well as high-ranking government officials within the state of Wisconsin and how they weigh in on this subject and Due to the fact that I think it's highly inappropriate to talk about other people like this in the public session That is why I would request that you do this in closed session and I'd be more than happy to leave during your discussion If you want to turn this into a media circus and have me say this in public, that's fine That's your prerogative But I just want you to be aware that there will be specific people named in this presentation. Thank you Thank you. Hold on Susha Alderman Radke Thank You madam chair and I guess my question would be this if we're Can allow Alderman Susha and the Olsen in open session Then shouldn't we allow everybody in open session and we only go into closed session to make our decision at the very end And confirm with our legal counsel. I mean if we're gonna exclude Alderman Susha Then we need to make sure everybody stays out here in open session. It can't be she stays out Nobody else can go in that that wouldn't be right. So That would be my my objection be if we're gonna go into closed session Everybody if we're gonna stay in open session, it's everybody's one or the other But not pick and choose because and we have to afford her the same the same The same once I'm the word. I'm looking for here. Well that the same What you call it, you know, if Susan hardly wants to speak to us shouldn't she speak to us in open session as well Or we're gonna lost Susan how many to go to closed session with us. That's what I'm getting at We can't say one is good for one thing one's good for you. That's not gonna fly by me Thank you, Alderman Ratke Alderman Van Akron. Thank you, ma'am chairman. All I want to know is it's so happy. I mean, no, he's not so happy I didn't even see her here It's sure said gonna be talking as a citizen or Alderman Alderman Susha tell us You know, that's a fine line You are a citizen with information you are Alderman with key information That is true. That's why honestly, I can't tell you which hat I'm wearing Thank you Alderman Manny. Thank you madam chairman a simple question for our city attorney Hearing what Alderperson Susha has mentioned Do you have any legal advice that would be helpful for us? Not anything other than what I've Indicated before and when I indicated about the closed session, I think You know you can discuss whatever you want an open session all I'm Talking about is to the extent You want to discuss with me as your legal counsel strategy regarding the lawsuit I recommend that that be done in closed session as far as Conflict of interest, I think Alderman Susha's got the conflict of interest on this and I believe that looking at League of Wisconsin municipalities magazine from December 2002 that's a legal comment on Ethics and conflict of interest rules for local officials and employees and I Think there's clearly a conflict that public officials should not participate in and perform any discretionary act With respect to making granting or imposing an award sanction permit license contract offer employment agreement or other matter in which the official member of the officials media family or business or organization with which the officials associated as a Substantial financial interest or would gain a substantial benefit Wisconsin ethics board guidelines for state officials suggest that one of matter in which a local official should not participate Come before a body which the official is a member of The official should leave that portion of the body's meeting involving discussion deliberations or votes related to the matter When because of a potential conflict of interest an official withdraws from the body's discussion deliberation of vote The body's minutes should reflect the absence so You know, it's Again the the closed session is to confer with legal counsel concerning strategy that there's been a settlement offer submitted I guess I assume that the sushi wish to address that I don't know apparently she wants to Bring in other matters That I'm not even sure Relate to the subject matter, maybe they do, you know, I don't know what they are. I Still think If you allow Alderman sushi to speak on this issue, I think it ought to be done in open session Thank you Thank you, Trina McLean Alderman Serta Thank You madam chairman I think it's fair to say that this is a unique situation and I'm sure it's uncomfortable for all of us and and You are correct Alderman Rackie. We do not only wear hats as citizens But also as older persons, but what's unique to this situation is that Alderman sushi has been a major decision maker in the legalities of this issue so because due to that conflict of interest and I also took it upon myself to contact the State Ethics Board and And ask them if an individual is going to abstain from their vote How does that mean they can abstain from discussion and the State Ethics Board said the attorney there said that there's no Distinction between the two that they're viewed as one is the one of the same. Thank you Alderman Dan Burr, thank you The agenda Has on there we were going to discuss the lawsuit Not now all our person shusha all of a sudden comes up with Individuals involved city employees and everything why weren't those issues Going through the proper channels before She came in here tonight, you know, that's another suggestion Sorry if I'm not no, no, please You know, I don't know what Alderman sushi got to say, but if if it does involve Personnel issues involved in city employees. That's another basis that you can Go into closed session to discuss, but it's not noticed that way here And you know, I don't know the timing of those issues or what but it's possible that that could be brought up at a Subsequent meeting under an appropriately called closed session to address If it's issues concern and Employees over which this body has jurisdiction. That's That's an appropriate subject to discuss in closed session but that's it wasn't noticed that way because Alderman Eldenberg Thank you better chairman. I Think a key issue then comes to the role that Alderman sushi will be will she be Renee sushi citizen or Alderman Renee sushi because to what degree do we is a City bear liability for some for a statement that an alderman may make Involving a city employee. I think it's clear that as citizens we can we have Largeson making statements about many many different things and many different items as individuals If I were to speak as an alderman to make very specific comments about a city employee To what degree does that bind the city into any liability for my comments? Alderman van der wheel. Thank you madam chairwoman. I think Alderman sushi wants to speak to us as Renee sushi Then she should go In the gallery and sit in the gallery and stay there for the rest of the night She wants to speak to us as Alderman sushi other than six just sit in her chair and be older than sushi I think that's you said it's a fine line. I think that's the difference this bar right here. That's the difference. Thank you Thank you Alderman van der wheel We now have the motion on the floor To not allow Renee sushi to speak in closed session and the second part of the motion is to have D. Olson also give us some information and I vote means Alderman sushi will not be allowed to speak to us in closed session Call the roll D bird E bird I Serda Kittleson Manny Maya Segale Shusha Then after that your wheel Ballman Martha, New York. No Motion passes. You will not be allowed to speak in closed session and D. Olson. You'll be allowed to give some information Do you want to give us some information now? Okay, some specific information later on thank you Alderman Serda. Thank you, miss madam chairman. That's the recommendation that I made address them as they come. Thank you Alderman sir sushi Do you want to? Silas van der wheel said stand in the citizens citizens citizens podium What I would like to do is represent my constituent Susan Hunley as an older person Since she is the one that is going to be appealing this tomorrow morning So I would like to continue to wear my old man a cat Representation and she has given me the authority to do that All the money thank you madam chairman Given our city attorney's comments. I feel like it might be appropriate to deal with the Proposal before us and not receive input this evening We might then defer a decision in relationship to the proposal to a later meeting at which we have closed session And private commentary that might include employees of the city personnel issues. I would feel more comfortable with that So that is my motion. You'd like to make a motion. Is there a second to Alderman Manny's motion? The motion has been made in seconded That would you state it again Alderman Manny? So we understand clearly we discussed the proposal before us separately in private session as a Deals with legal issues relationship to a lawsuit in our council And then we defer a decision if we feel duly That duly necessary to a later meeting at which we have closed session input From citizen Susha or citizen Hunley That concerns personnel issues that have a private nature that we can hear in a safe context and That's the motion Alderman Manny are you saying to not have when they speak here at all this evening correct? Is there any further discussion on Alderman Manny and that would include D. Olson as well? We deal with the issue before us as printed If we're not ready for a decision we meet again at a later date and invite the others to come and speak privately as necessary Thank you Alderman Serta. Thank you madam chairman Considering all of the scheduling that had to take place and I also questioned the time frame of calling this meeting I think it's courtesy to everybody here that we address this issue tonight I personally have spent hours trying to do my homework to address this situation tonight And because of the information and I have been forthright with Alderman Susha her stance has not changed We have communicated with Steve McLean I think in all fairness with this meeting being called as early as today that I think we should proceed further. Thank you, Mr. Chair Any further discussion on the motion? We'll do a roll call vote on Alderman Manny's motion understand his motion is to Not have Alderman Renee Susha speak at all this evening and not have D. Olson speak this evening and speak at a further time in a closed session Iber, Ney Serta. Ney Kiddleston Nanny Meyer Radke Sicale Susha Same Dan Akron No Dan DeWheel No Baldwin No Iber No Montevillor Aye Ney-Sebham The motion fails. Where do we go now? Alderman Susha You will speak in open session If you choose If you choose to stand there to make it easier Okay, okay I mean, sorry, sorry Okay I've given you a A package of colored documents and what I'd like to do is just review a little bit of the history because it's difficult for you to take a Vote on the issue if you don't know what's going on The first set of green documents is just a copy of the room tax statute And one of the things that you will probably hear Throughout the course just for clarification Is a 9010 split versus an 8020 split And what that means is that if you turn to the second page of the green document and under number two It talks about if a municipality collects a room tax on may 13th 1994 It may retain not more than that same percentage of room tax On that date in 1994 the city of shabuigan was retaining approximately 10 of their room tax For administrative purposes and 90 of the room tax was going To the convention and visitors bureau for promotion and marketing A little bit further down in that same paragraph right after the letter a in parentheses It says the municipality shall spend at least 70 percent of the increased amount of room tax That is being collected after may 1st 1994 on tourism promotion and development This is a difference of opinion what what what Miss hunley and her attorney interpret this as saying is that any increase in room tax after may 1st 1994 Would be a 7030 split So prior to this date in 94 shabuigan was collecting 4 percent room tax and the split was 9010 Since that date we've increased it another 4 percent And the way they interpret this is that the split should be 70 30 On that other 4 percent So when you blend the two figures together and you're looking at 8 percent room tax the blended figure According to their calculations is an 8020 split This is just a minor issue But i know city attorney mclean reads this as saying that whatever you were doing on that date in 1994 Which was a 9010 split? That's how it should stay So i'm just making this as a point of clarification because you will hear in 9010 8020 If you look at the next document, it's a peach color document And this is from the state department of tourism in 2005 It just came out this month of may if you look at the lodging component It only accounts for 12 percent of the tourism dollars The majority of the tourism dollars spent on shopping food and recreation And the reason that lodging collects room tax is because We captured the true tourist Most people that live in shabuigan are not spending the night in a hotel But people who travel to shabuigan probably will sleep in a hotel While they're doing their sightseeing Unfortunately a lot of the retail shops the recreational activities the restaurants They don't understand that they're supposed to be the recipient of the room tax promotion Lodging collects it, but the recipient of the promotion should be anything related to tourism Another good example is when you look at the marina in shabuigan This is not promoted enough room tax dollars could be used to promote it better Shabuigan has the lowest rate As far as what we charge the people to dock here we're lower than manituaq for washington and milwaukee So even though that we have a great marina. It's wonderful. It's inexpensive to dock your boat here We are the only marina out of those four that I just listed that is not sold out Plus we incur incurred a hundred thousand dollars in ice damage this year And it would be nice to have all the slips filled which we could probably do with proper promotion So the taxpayers wouldn't have this extra burden of the marina Sitting on their tax bill each year So if we were to use the room tax money appropriately form a room tax commission to make sure that the proper entities are being promoted It actually would benefit the taxpayers of the city If you flip to the next page the blue page reflects Historical perspective as far as how much room tax was collected each year and what percent was given to the chamber of commerce And you can see from 1984 to about 1996 The city kept roughly 90 percent In 1997 that's when the city started getting creative as far as what they defined as tourism And if you look on the next page the purple page It shows you in 2002 how the money was dispersed in 2002 we were I believe charging six percent room tax and That's when the city decided to change the contract with the chamber of commerce and rather than take a 10 percent or 20 percent They decided to take 150 thousand dollars off the top and at that time We were collecting about 300 thousand dollars in room tax and with the city taking the 150 off the top You can do the math. It's a simple 50. Basically was going to the city What happened in 2001 is the english manor and lake view mansion bed and breakfast were contacted by the chamber of commerce And they brought this potential change To their attention, but that's how the chamber asked basically for help The reason they went to the bed and breakfast is because They were locally owned And you know the the hotels aren't so they asked for some help in trying to Get an 80 20 percent deal worked out with the city And that's what kind of started this whole ball rolling That's when the shawagan lodging group started meeting to discuss where the room tax is going and you can see back Then it was used for the memorial day parade International committee the mayor took ten thousand dollars to travel Business improvement district a lot of the money went to the fourth of july parade and the police over time What's kind of strange is that all of these things that were going on in 2002 when we were collecting 300 thousand in room tax the things that we said back then you could not do You can do all of this today without any questions and without breaking any laws The reason being is that with blue harbor in the picture and raising the room tax to 8 percent We now bring in over 1.1 million dollars in room tax So the city can keep their 10 percent or 20 percent and use it for whatever they want So this old issue of should you be using money for the police over time? You could use all of the money for police over time You know the rules have changed just over time because now we collect so much money One of the things I do want to point out the quote at the bottom of the page april 14th 2003 If you go back to that city council meeting, you will see city attorney c. McLean saying Could a judge say that the use of room tax to pay police over time for the fourth of july parade is stretching the bounds Could be that's a possibility. I could concede So here you have a city attorney saying that the judge might say sheboygan is stretching the bounds But now you have to ask him if he can guarantee you a win at the appellate court Because if you cannot get a guarantee win at the appellate court from attorney McLean Then I suggest that you adopt the settlement. It is not outrageous forming a room tax commission Is the type of check checks and balance that the city really needs If you go on to the white document, this is probably one of the most important documents in this entire packet If you look in the first column is the year The second column is the guaranteed room tax at blue harbor guarantees that they're going to pay every year You can see in 2005 they are going to guarantee about 700 000 dollars What that means is if they only generate 500 000 dollars in room tax They have to pay the 200 000 dollar difference If they raise more than 700 000 in actual room tax collected They have to pay the actual amount that they collect If you look at the the middle column, it's an estimate It's just the estimate on what the debt service is going to be And this year it's 150 000 dollars is the payment that needs to be made On the debt the 8.14 million that's being borrowed here So then you see a column number four the difference column There's going to be an excess of 550 000 dollars this year in the room tax budget If you look at the letter on the next page, we're going to go back to the white sheet But this is a response I received from Mayor Schram And I requested Information detailing exactly how all the room tax for blue harbor was going to be spent And he wrote back your first request is for a detailed description of exactly how all the blue harbor room tax will be spent To the best of my knowledge, there is no such document The public records law does not require an authority to create a new record to respond to requests Therefore this request is denied I was never told where the difference was going because a written document does not exist It does not I've been over the development agreement. I've been over the amendment of the agreement There is nothing in there that says this difference is going to the debt of the conference center All it says is there some phrase about it will be uh the money will be used to pay for public improvements And part of the conference center debt. It's it's pretty vague, but it's not specific in any way And if it was specific and it was in the development agreement I would have not gotten the letter on the next page because it says that the public record does not exist So that's telling me that this difference column is still Questionable where it's really going so part of the settlement that's on the table before you Is to take 100 percent the entire guaranteed room tax that's generated each year and each year Put it all into the debt of the conference center The sooner we get it paid off the better for the city and the better for the tourism industry So that is what one of the the proposal is basically saying take that 700 000 this year and stick it all into the debt of the conference center Or there's nothing preventing you from saying hey The city wants to take 10 percent of the blue harbor room tax and we're going to use it for our administrative purposes That's an option as well. There's nothing telling you what to do with that difference column And the chamber of commerce entered into a contract with the city Promising they would not touch the guaranteed room tax. They're not going to touch it So right now the chamber of commerce has responsibility for promoting the conference center They do not receive one nickel of the 700 000 a year that's generated by blue harbor But yet they're going to promote it to the best of their ability with the limited resources that they are given So just we'll probably refer back to this page. I just want to keep moving along Um, if you look at the purple page, I just it kind of introduces the next document I'm going to go over and it was sent to the aldermen september 16th 2004 And if you look at the top, you'll see that it lists the shabuigan lodging group and you'll see that there are multiple names up there Um, this is something that susan hunley is not doing on her own Or she's doing it on her own, but she's got the moral support of a lot of other hotels behind her Um And also it's interesting to note that in this letter It talks about we also want to bring to your attention that the room tax contract between the city and the chamber of commerce will expire december 31st 2005 before you renew another agreement. You may want to consider other options So That's telling you something right there And I hope that if you do form a committee to do research into where the room tax money is going that you also Survey the hotels in the area and ask what their opinions are Then the next document Is an email that was sent from attorney mclean To don norwich um and copied to several other people relating to the blue harbor Contract and it was sent out july 29th 2003 at 4 47 p.m This was sent out the day before the development agreement was signed If you turn the page and read the underlined part When what he's talking about is paying for the conference center debt The city's financing is general obligation debt of the city and not any form of special purpose revenue financing As such even under the worst case scenario where the claimants prevail on the merits of their claims Such an outcome would have no effect upon the city's obligation to provide the funding for the convention center What that means is that the convention center is guaranteed with the general fund If the appellate court overturns the decision of judge langhoff That means approximately 20 million dollars will be dumped on the shoulders of the taxpayers If you go back to that white page, you will see that over the 23 years of the schedule the guaranteed room tax Collected is 26 million dollars and the amount that would be applied to the debt of the conference center is 16 million dollars so This is the just of why the settlement should happen tonight because It's not going to be The english manor who appeals this is not going to be her fault if the 20 million dollars gets dumped on the shoulders of the taxpayers It's not going to be mayor pares's fault for allowing this to happen because he can't even vote on this subject It's going to come down to the 15 alderman that are sitting here today If you are willing to take that risk of dumping that money on the taxpayers You know, you have the opportunity when I leave the room to question attorney mclean And if he cannot guarantee you will win at the appellate court Then you better think long and hard about whether you're going to take that risk Because what's being asked in the settlement is not that outrageous Now if you go to the next document Just to give you a little bit of a history after the chamber Brought to the attention of the shabuagan lodging group that the city wanted to take more room tax money Away from them, which ultimately hurt the promotion development of tourism A room tax advisory committee was set up It consisted of mayor schramm paulett enders bill stefan one for us And then you had representatives from the baymont brownstone in and lake few mansion Ex officio were rich gapheart and attorney mclean At the same time We were meeting There were secret negotiations going on between the city and the chamber and the shabuagan lodging group was screaming that we don't have Excuse me representation. We don't have a say in where this room tax money is going We'd like to be more involved in the process at the same time this whole contract was Was swept away and The chamber basically kissed away all the money from blue harbor without consulting anyone else so This room tax advisory committee met approximately seven times and at the last meeting there was a motion made to um To redistribute the room tax money where the lodging group felt more comfortable with where it was going And um, the motion was seconded. There was some discussion and um, just uh, there wasn't a roll call vote initially And um when mayor shram said all in favor half the room said i half the room said nay So what mayor shram did is he went around the room and he pointed to every single person that was sitting at that table Including the ex officio members rich gapheart and steve mclean and they both weighed in with a vote Even though they were not entitled to vote So just as the mayor says motion denied. I said wait a minute You know, there were people that were ex officio here that voted So the motion actually carried and at that time mayor shram threw his pencil down and said I refuse to take this to the council floor This is where it all began had he taken the recommendation to the council floor We would not be here tonight. We would have a room tax commission overseeing where the money is going and we would have Tourism that would just be skyrocketing But unfortunately we're not skyrocketing at this point If you flip to the next page This yellow page also identifies some problems with the chamber of commerce It looks kind of like a goofy chart, but it's one of the important documents This was handed out at a cvb meeting on november 6 2002 The first year first column represents the year the next column is the total amount collected by the city The cvb share would be the amount of money that the city gave to the chamber The cvb percent would be the percent that went to the chamber But then what's interesting is take a look at the column entitled cvb overhead You will see that from 1999 to 2002 their overhead went from 85 thousand dollars up to 120 thousand dollars When this lawsuit got kind of rolling the question was posed to the chamber Why did your overhead go up and they refused to answer the question? When you look at the amount of money that was available for marketing you can see in 1999 There was 113 thousand available for marketing by 2002 the marketing money was down to 37 thousand dollars If this isn't a big red flag in everybody's mind it really should be I've added the numbers for 2003 4 and 5 And you can see that Initially I started talking about the 90 10 split or the 80 20 split You can see that the money that actually makes it to marketing Is way below and when I say 90 10 80 20 that 80 or 90 percent is what's supposed to be used for the promotion And you can see that we are bouncing somewhere between the 12 to 36 percentage point over the last four years. We're far below that and and actually if you want to Skip ahead. Oh, well, I guess I'll go in order just not to you'll see what the ramifications of that are in just a second But as the room tax advisory panel kind of came to an end because um mayor shram never called another meeting Other people were getting involved. There were over 40 meetings where the lodging group was summoned to But unfortunately it was with so many different fractions. It was never the common council And this is the governing body that makes the decision on where room tax goes You'll see that Here we have a memo the light blue page from mike mooth And he's representing the friends of shabuigan And if you go to the second page if you read what I circled and I put a box around It says at the risk of speaking for the city the mayor and his administration the chamber of commerce and the shabuigan development Corp the management of great lakes the friends of shabuigan and future generations of shabuigan I want to thank the hoteliers for agreeing to cancel the meeting scheduled With the city for next tuesday There were people that were stepping in And acting like they had the power and at the time we believe they did have the power To actually do what only this governing body can do So we were sent on wild goose chases, but every step of the way we kept saying Um, I think um, maybe I forgot to read two pages back on the golden rod issue You know of the tourism commission issue I had to be resolved by november 1st. Otherwise shabuigan lodging group was going to take further action That was november 1st of 2002 this memo came in on february I think uh 14th or 16th 2003 we still didn't have any resolution So this went on and on and by the time uh april of 2003 rolled around Ms. Hunley got a call from an important city official That said, you know, you keep talking about a notice of claim and the proper process to notice a city that you're going to sue them As first you have to file a notice of claim He said, you know, it would be helpful if you filed your notice of claim before We actually signed the development agreement because then we can straighten everything out and perhaps we can work all The differences out. So that's what she did. She got a lawyer the file the claim was filed In april of 2003 and From there it was just kind of delay tactic after delay tactic The lawsuit did come about six months later and um eventually we wound up in court several times on some Frivolous motions and that is part of the reason that The the attorney fee should be reimbursed But on february 15th I know that alderman ben ackerman was in court and you can see on the red pages I underlined what the judge had to say about this case It says I wish I had the luxury of the court of appeals because they not only have Probably a little bit more time to focus on the issues They also have the support staff that are able to do the research for them I realize that the decision of the trial court may not be the last decision made by this case By legal authority in other words, it may go to the court of appeals or the supreme court Because obviously it's a very interesting issue and from my perspective. It's a pretty close call And then the last page just a issue of this magnitude Due to the magnitude of this issue. I will try to get you a written decision within 30 days Which is what he did Or shortly after that And what I did on the yellow page is I included the last Page of his document and it says the plaintiff's remedy However, does not lie in the judicial arena arena plaintiff's remedy lies in the state legislature So what he was saying is that a judge he didn't want to rule on this case But what he recommends we do is go to the state and try to Change the state statute Well, uh, another thing to notice on here Is that if the judge did not believe this was a close call? He would have assessed susan hunley court costs There were no court costs as you can see right below that underlying portion There were no court costs assessed in this case at all. This is virtually unheard of if he thought That she lost hands down. He would have assessed court costs He still thinks that this is a close call and you've got to keep that in mind Do you want to dump 20 million on the taxpayers? So Fortunately about two weeks after This decision came out The room tax statute was being discussed in madison and um Susan hunley was one of the people from shaboygan that went down there and Attorney mclean was there. D. Olson was there and it's interesting to know The people that supported the change in the state statute It would be the wisconsin association of convention and visitor's bureau. It would be the wisconsin association of Chamber of commerce's the wisconsin in keepers association you had susan hunley there representing it The only chamber of commerce that was sitting on the other side Opposing the change in the state law Was the shaboygan chamber of commerce and she was sitting next to attorney mclean And attorney mclean had been told just like we were told according to the judge the remedy Lies with the state legislature. So he was there opposing a change in state statute So here you have a judge saying go to madison we go to madison then the most strange thing happened in the world A couple weeks after that hearing um Susan hunley was at a wisconsin in keeper association meeting And at that meeting the president of that organization which represents about 13,000 hotels across the state Put a slide up to bring everyone in the group up to speed with what was going on in madison relating to the change in the state statute And she had a meeting that morning with the secretary of tourism jim hoprin for the state of wisconsin And the secretary of tourism told her gave her this Purple document And um at the end of the discussion he said it boils down to three points You need to change your statute in three ways number one eliminate the reporting requirement for municipalities because the municipalities Obviously don't want to report what they're really doing with money Number two eliminate the penalties to these municipalities But the third point that had to happen or governor dole is going to veto this entire bill Is you need to create an exemption for the city of shabuigan And it was unclear if it was for all components or just the convention center project So now this has evolved to the point where the governor is involved And we're supposed to be like an island and we're supposed to start asking for state exemptions I think this has gone far enough. I think tonight is the night to settle this because This is ridiculous and it's time to put it to rest In fact, if you turn to the orange orange page I talked to representative terry van akron yesterday and I thanked him for putting his letter in the beacon And the underlying part that I put down here is governor jim dole clearly understands the importance of tourism in our state And as such has proposed increased funding in his 05-07 budget for tourism promotion and marketing This is what it's all about. We need to increase the amount of money in shabuigan going to tourism promotion and marketing And the next page tells you why You know a lot of the statistics that are thrown out You're always looking at shabuigan county shabuigan county just to put it in perspective Collar generates a lot more than a million dollars a year in room tax You know the ostoff generates a lot of tourism over in elkart lake But when you look at the city of shabuigan The three of the last four quarters our room tax collections are down Tourism is down. The only upswing was third quarter of last year, which obviously was when the pga was held You'd expect an increase then But look at first quarter of this year. We're down 32 This is what we've been talking about if you keep cutting the tourism promotion budget You're going to see a decrease in tourism Maybe the rest of the county will be able to carry the tourism numbers and keep us as the ninth highest Tourism county that people go to But the city of shabuigan is failing and if we don't give somebody more money to promote the daylights Out of shabuigan and get People in our marina and you need to get people To start going to blue harbor get them going to the conference center Let's get this tourism commission form so they can give suggestions on how we can get more people there We're going to just keep sliding because the budget has been cut so much over the years And that's what it's all about. We need to form the commission And take care of it that way If you look at the blue document, this is another thing that the commission needs to address This is part of the invitation to the republican convention that was recently held at the city owned blue harbor conference center On the left hand side, you will see available area hotels three of the Seven I believe that are listed do not even pay shabuigan room tax It is in the redevelopment authority that blue harbor has to market all hotels in the area When there's a conference in town And when I called the republican party and said, where did you get this list? They said blue harbor resorts and does the list and they're listing hotels that aren't even paying room tax here So who's that benefiting? I mean the more money generated in room tax the more money the city can get from their 10 or 20 percent for whatever they take But issues like this need to be addressed and that's why a room tax or a tourism commission is Really a good idea The next page the two green pages It's just another thing that you need to know look at the date may 5th 2005 Paul at Enders Contacted all of the the hotels and restaurants in shabuigan I thought her job was to develop the community Not market tourism I mean we've got to get more buildings on the south pier project. That's what she should be focusing on not Taking the time to promote the city And you know it says as you may know with the phone call you recently received from me I'm gathering brochures from all lodging establishments who wish to be included in the mailing She's calling us. She sent us an email and she sent us a letter. I compliment her for her thoroughness However, I question who's directing her To mess with tourism if she's going to start doing this then I advise we start sending her to state conferences So she can get a thorough understanding of tourism The only problem is is we have so many people now You've got the chamber slash cvb that are supposed to be doing the promotion for shabuigan Now we've got paul at enders on the city tax rolls also doing the promotion for tourism then we also have Richard Meyer on the city tax rolls during tourism promotion and development and oftentimes I've seen magazine several of them where the chamber of commerce takes out a quarter page ad two pages later Dick Meyer takes out a quarter page ad both of them promoting shabuigan And they're both placed in the same like northern chicago magazine. It's not a good use of money We have too many people messing with the room tax money And we need to funnel it to one group and that's why it's imperative to go with With a room tax commission and then the second page of paulette's Memo is the bottom page somebody recently picked up the ad that she's running in The midwest airlines magazine So that's just for your information. I'm getting near the end. Thank you for bearing with me the yellow pages That might come at a different time It's not part of the lawsuit very information interesting information relating to how manitouak set up a visitor center And that is something that shabuigan needs to do We need a visitor center right off the highway so we can start Plucking the cars off the highway as they're driving by I mean some of these statistics that they throw out there I think in the first few months that they were open. They had 20 I'm not sure what the time frame is 26 000 visitors 85 000 visitors in two-year time frame They said one day alone last weekend in july they had 600 people Go through their visitor center. We don't have that, you know, they stop at mcdonald's or they stop for gas and they keep going We need to get a visitor center so we can take them right off the highway and get them to stay here and spend their money In our restaurants and spend their money in our shops So that is kind of a very fast Overview if I haven't bored you or confused you The last document is it kind of speaks to the question about why are why Our attorney fees being asked if you look at the july 29 2003 notice of claim that was sent to susan hunley Um, it says please be advised that no lawsuit may be brought on this claim against the city of shabuigan Or any of its office officials officers agent our employees after six months from the date of receipt of this letter So basically when you receive a letter like this from the city attorney It basically tells you you have six months to file a lawsuit so Part of the process when the lawsuit was filed there were motions made That the notice of claim wasn't followed. There was a violation with the notice of claim So milwaukee attorneys had to keep coming up here to go to court to talk about the notice of claim This was simply a delayed tactic and an attempt to financially drain susan hunley so That's pretty much It just in closing. I have a few comments These are the reasons why you should really consider settling this and be done with this First of all, I'm sure that if you asked attorney mclean If you could guarantee you went at the appellate court The answer is going to be no you cannot make that type of guarantee The consequence of losing at the appellate court will dump about 20 million dollars onto the taxpayers Remember judge langhoff never weighed in on the difference between a conference center and a convention center This is a huge point within the lawsuit If it is a convention center, you can use room tax for it. It is a conference center. You can't We have blue harbor conference center that we built If you look in the shaboygan phone book in the yellow pages Will you find blue harbor under convention center? No, it is listed under conference center And then if you're on the edge not knowing what it is look under banquet hall Because blue harbor is listed under banquet hall. We did not build a convention center The plaintiffs provided testimony from three experts on what a convention center is versus a conference center Remember judge langhoff never touched this issue. He just called it a facility And the city in blue harbor did not provide any experts in their testimony and they will not be allowed to add any In their case because the way the case is now is the way it's going to the appellate court Judge langhoff clearly stated that this is a close and interesting case As far as I can see it, the city might as well toss a coin to see which way it's going to go Some might argue That you'll be setting a precedence by Ending this litigation now. This is a very unusual lawsuit. I will agree with alderman serda. She's right This is very Unusual situation as a whole But the thing to point out is that nobody is suing here for financial gain Nobody is suing for damages for lost business. No one is suing for punitive damages Whereas in a normal case that comes across the desk of an alderman, you know, uh garbage truck hit my car Therefore I want, you know, not only my car fix, but I want $50,000 because I twisted my wrist or something like that There's no type of extra cost here. We're look We're just strictly here talking about partial attorney fees And the attorney fees can be reimbursed out of room tax money The reason they should be is because this lawsuit never should have happened The lawsuit arose out of the stubbornness of the previous mayor who did not care about the promotion of tourism And the fees escalated due to the city attorney making worthless motions and attempt to drain us financially It's common strategy Um Another thing to keep in mind is that it's no secret that I was involved in the investigation Of the way mayor shram and city attorney mclean misused the blue harbor legal fees And I believe that to a certain extent attorney mclean is letting his hatred for me cloud the advice that he will be giving this council I cannot believe that he would recommend risking dumping 20 million dollars onto the taxpayers When a very simple and logical settlement is on the table This is the last time the council will see a settlement from the plaintiff When she prevails at the appellate level and 20 million dollars is dumped onto the taxpayers. You cannot blame her She has bent over backwards to accommodate what's best for the city You cannot blame mayor prez either because he can't vote the decision of this case is simply in the hands of the 15 elder men They are you guys will be the ones responsible for the potential $200 a year Increase on each citizen's tax bill if the settlement cannot be reached Um, I want to thank you for your time and just as a post script I think that it would be inappropriate for d. Olson to be allowed to speak on the lawsuit She's not a party to the lawsuit and had susan hunley knowing that there would be Discussion by people not involved with the lawsuit. She would have probably sent more people in here too However, I think that the the motion made by alderman mani the other resolution That would probably be more appropriate for her to weigh in on. Thank you. Thank you. Alderman sisha Anyone has questions I'd be happy to answer Oh, maybe yeah, yeah Alderman sacali Thank you, madam chairwoman. I guess what one of the things is that York you're saying that the city and the chamber has misappropriated the room tax monies They have spent it in ways that they shouldn't have I'd like to have you justify In this lawsuit how you can ask for our attorney fees, which I feel would be misappropriated in the room tax dollars tremendously So if you can tell me why you think it's okay to do that And what the city was doing is helping with the july 4th parade, which to me is tourism bringing in tourism What's the difference here? Thank you First of all the question relating to 4th of july and tourism I don't think there's more than a handful of restaurants or shops that are open on the 4th of july When tourists come to an area they want to do shopping They want to eat they want to do those types of activities and the 4th of july parade does not Really create people here that are spending their money in the restaurants and the shops and and the things like that in regards to using That for reimbursement. It's first of all, it's because The chamber of commerce has decided that they don't want 700 thousand dollars of the blue harbor room tax They don't want it for promotion You know, they've made that clear based on the contract that they signed with the city So there is nothing stopping the city from using that money. However, they want So that is an option to take it out of there. Remember the city can use 10 20 percent depending on how you Divide up the state statute the city can use it for whatever they want So if they choose to end this and not potentially dump 20 million dollars on the taxpayers, that's their choice However, if you're not comfortable taking it out of room tax and you want to take it out of the general fund See, I feel that would be more inappropriate taking it out of the general fund because that comes from the taxpayers So this is a room tax issue and it should be taken out of the money generated from blue harbor that the chamber does not want Or the chambers contract ends at the end of this year. You could build the reimbursement into future Payments from whoever's going to start managing the room tax after january 1st. Thank you Alderman nanny. Thank you question for a city attorney McLean room tax dollars and the projected difference between debt retirement and Thus the difference available for us to supposedly use How much latitude is there? I believe the dollars for 2005 were in the 500 thousand dollar category How much latitude do we have with those dollars? You're speaking of the blue harbor room tax my memory was that we were of course the agreements changed, you know So it's hard to keep them distinct historically What there was going to be at least at one point in time Money put aside when there was an overage in the room tax dollar receipts For those years following there might have might have been a shortfall That's not the case now under the development agreement. Okay. I mean good the The guaranteed room tax amount that blue harbors required to Pay to the city That is a number pulled out of the air It's not tied to the actual room tax They have to pay under the law they have to pay the actual room tax on the rooms the guaranteed amount is Could be more than they actually generate room tax To the extent that it is more than they actually generate in room tax Then there's a provision For possibly refunding the overage the guaranteed amount over the over the Paid out actual room tax amount now that I think the amendment though took Took that out of there. So there's no provision for payment of room tax shortfalls currently So then we have latitude in some measure But tell me to what measure do we have latitude to direct the $550,000 to further promotion, etc, etc That's right now. That's the council's prerogative And okay, and I would advise that that's in should be in consultation with rich keppard the finance director as far as Uh, I'm not sure for o5. How much is in the budget to be set aside for debt retirement for this year, but That's really a council as it currently stands a council decision each year Thank you, alderman mani Thank you, man chair. I got one question for today Are you appealing or are you out of appeal? I am not appealing this now. Susan hunley from english manner will be the only person listed on the appeal Any more discussion any more comments? Yes, ma'am chairman if I could just ask Almond sushi had just a question of clarifying it's it's on alderman mani's resolution and I don't know. Maybe alderman mani can address this, but there's one Where is it here? Thank you one whereas provision there Those responsible for bringing suit against the city are willing to drop the suit if a special study committee is appointed To fairly look at all the issues involved in the expenditure of the room tax dollars and the contract with the chamber. Is that May I address yes, please I have two amendments to the document one is changing those words are willing to may be willing And then I have one resolution at the end, which will be verbalized later Which deals with some amount of Tony's fees reimbursement Does that answer your question? Not totally perhaps I could ask alderman sushi. Do you have a position on that about the The creation of a study committee under alderman mani's resolution well as you know tomorrow's the deadline for filing the appeal So she will be filing the appeal and I think the study committee has to happen, but you really have to talk to her as to if she would drop it just strictly on that Just because the resolution is passed. I don't know Thank you alderman sushi. Thank you alderman mani. Thank you attorney McLean Dennis you look so puzzled. Did you want to say something? Alderman bowman. Well, anyway, I have to apologize. I I may look a little flustered tonight, but I'll try to get through this as easily as possible In the beginning of the presentation by alderman person sushi She had mentioned money about money to the marina for advertising purposes As part of their contract, which I was digging through my drawers and found Um They're being paid this year for the marina 63,654 for administration fees basically Part of their marketing agreement, which is on page three of the agreement states that They will commence Let's see here They understand and acknowledge that achieving and maintaining optimum Occupancy levels is crucial to the success of the marina and the satisfactory performance on this agreement Skipper's initial marketing campaign will include boat shows direct mail Advertising public relations commissions sales and a customer satisfaction insurance program So they do their own marketing basically is the way this contract is set up Thank you for the information alderman bowman Any other discussion If not, we'll move on to alderman nanny's resolution In a moment Alderman sarah. Thank you. Madam chairman. I think we forgot part of my motion and that was courtesy to d. Olson And this and you feel this is when she wanted to speak If we're okay, if we're staying in open session, that's fine And if manny wants to pursue she can wait till the end of she yes, we're in open session We're in open session alderman nanny will you proceed with the information about your resolution? Thank you, madam chair I do want to add two amendments to my resolution the first is the whereas clause As a Attorney McLean was noting with a little bit of uncertainty. This would be the last whereas clause Prior to the first be a result and that is the last word on the first line Following city are that word would be scratched and to be replaced by the words may be So those bringing suit against the city may be willing to drop etc Then in addition One additional resolution to be added at the bottom Um It reads as follows and there is a copy there for recording secretary The city will pay $50,000 Of the plaintiff's $100,000 legal bill From the 2006 through 2008 room tax dollars To be paid in three annual payments on june 1st of each year With three percent simple interest being added on each of the payments for 2007 and 2008 On the outstanding principal comma if they drop their suit So I moved those amendments Oh don't nanny do you want Those amendments regarding the money it as part of the um Accepting or not accepting of the study committee No, here's the deal if the first Proposal resolves the case the situation Then we would delete several warehouses and a couple of resolutions from my proposal If in fact the first proposal does not resolve the issue if that's voted down It or any other amended version of it Then my proposal stands firm and complete as it is to be dealt with accordingly So we need a study team. I believe regardless Um But it depends upon I'd be willing not to do this if in the earlier agreement I have an amendment to suggest a change in the numbers Of those on the tourism commission and then I would be happy with that as a way to go So it's there's nuance depending on what happens with the first proposal Now you're this resolution proposal this evening We as a council may make a recommendation But it won't be voted yes or no until it goes to the council So now we are we have your resolution and we're talking about amendments How do we get the amendments here because we're not going to vote to amend here in the committee of the whole Yes, uh, thank you madam chairman. I think the procedure would be to place the resolution on for for passage by committee of the whole and then Assuming it's seconded then make a motion to amend the document And vote on those amendments And you do it all at one time all the amendments at once or each amendment Each individual time Steve Can we vote to pass a resolution committee of the whole? I thought we could only do a recommendation Right, right you'd be Recommending you'd be recommending that the council pass the document as amended Thank you. Uh, just procedural question. Don't we want to deal with the first proposal first And have a sense of the committee's perspective and recommendation to the council Before you amend before we deal with that resolution that I have to the body Seems to be a discussion whether And probably in closed session with some of these issues would give us greater sense of clarity about that proposal a response to it Therefore any discussion in relationship to my resolution would be much more appropriate and succinct Okay, we have it straight that we vote on the resolution Yes, elton bird vice president give me a little help I believe that uh Alderman matty would like to hold His resolution pending our consideration Of our all 570506 which will be considered I believe in closed or open sessions depending upon the pleasure of the council. Is that correct? Ah, thank you Thank you. Alderman elton bird That's going to be held For voting until after our discussion in closed session With attorney steve mclean Any further discussion? I will entertain a motion to go into closed session Under the exemption provided in Alderman bird, okay E bird kind of hit and nail on the head. I was going to say we had two documents here tonight And all of a sudden we haven't taken care of one yet We're jumping into the second one and stake and starting to make amendments Why don't we make everything plain and simple take one at a time? And get it out of the way I think alderman burg Before we can take an action on the first amendment We'll have to go into closed session to have the discussion with attorney steve mclean Right That's what I'd recommend right. I want a roll call vote on that then Okay Alderman sarah Thank you, madam chairman I think before we would make a decision and moving into closed session We still have to Take care of d. Olson and give her that courtesy to speak and then we can move forward to see where we're going to go at Thank you. I haven't heard a word from d. Olson. She's trying D. Olson, did you want to speak about? Resolution number 570506 Thank you, madam chairman um I want to to speak basically i'm not going to um Come in here, you know to talk about the lawsuit. That's not what i'm here for tonight I'm here because the chamber has been the entity that has done the promotion for tourism for many years and We have done so I think in a very qualified way And our back was up against the wall a number of times over the last few years There was a point when we were receiving 90 10 split which was um The best of all worlds. I think when it comes to tourism promotion But we would not be sitting here with a blue harbor project If we had not made some concessions We didn't just dump the tourism money We saw a vision that will help develop this community further And we talk about um You know How the city of sheboygan is losing losing gain on the room tax dollars That will change with the blue harbor being here And I want to make those comments clear But the chamber has has been that Tourism entity and I want to reference for you in the wisconsin state statue 6671 that deals with governing bodies dealing with room taxes and it says under 6671 section one f Defines a tourism entity Means a nonprofit organization that came into existence before january 1 1992 And provides staff development and promotional services for the tourism industry in a municipality That would be the sheboygan county chamber of commerce In addition under The same section sub b1 If a single municipality imposes a room tax under paragraph a Which basically says you're allowed to do that The municipality may Create a commission under paragraph c The commission shall contract With another organization To perform the functions of a tourism entity If no tourism entity exists In that municipality we do exist And that means that if a tourism commission is formed This section of the legislation provides for us to be That tourism entity and I want to make that clear to the council We have we have worked hard to grow tourism and I sent a memo to all of you because we had had a visit from from miss hunley with regard to Their settlement agreement and wanting to garner the chamber's support for For that settlement agreement And I met with her at length and we talked about a lot of things But more importantly She said that we would be the group that we would be contracted with by the tourism commission She can't say that on behalf of the common council That is your decision to make You will decide if you want to continue to contract with the chamber As you have in the past or whether you want a tourism commission The tourism commission will be a an entity in itself That is separate from the council and will then have the authority over those room tax dollars Taking that authority out of the hands of the common council And they can report to you With what they are doing with the dollars From the chamber's perspective, we feel we managed the dollars very well And we did see an increase in some of the costs relative to The operations The administrative costs if you will for running The tourism component of the chamber of commerce. We do economic development. We We do legislative things. We do Educational programs and we do the cvb activity We have been commendable In keeping our records separate And you will hear from us again because we've requested floor time On june 6th to give our annual report out to the council on you'll see the financials. You'll see Information on how we do the marketing Where the dollars get spent We have grown tourism here in the last six years for the county And one of the points i'd like to make is that while Room tax dollars are extremely important to us. We couldn't do the job that we do without them We are a destination and we can say, you know Our rooms are filled all of august But they're filled because of elk heart lake races We are more than just People don't say i'm going to go on vacation and i'm going to just stay within the confines of the city limits They see Sheboygan county as an area that they want to visit As a result in order for us to be successful in bringing people to our area We need to promote all of the amendments that are available to us All of the things that people are looking for And that is what we have been about and As a result our tourism has grown not only taking us in the last six years from number 14 Out of 72 counties to number nine out of 72 counties We have almost doubled The amount of dollars that are being spent here in sheboygan county We've gone from 134 million dollars to 271 million dollars plus But That is almost doubling that is almost unprecedented in this kind of industry During what was a really tough economy Given 9 11 and some of the other things that have taken place And part of that is you know Kohler does Have a million dollars in room tax Kohler spends their dollars on tourism promotion We need to spend our dollars on tourism promotion. We compliment one another When we are doing that kind of marketing for the area so Our rooms get filled because kohler is marketing as well because they are drawing people to the area And we are seeing the results of that So I I want you to keep in mind that as you go about a study committee You know There's a proposal for a tourism commission as you have seen it There is no representation from the chamber where the cdb on that commission Although we're the promotion entity You're talking about putting together a study committee. I've not heard us referenced as a component of that study committee And I really think that we need to be a part of this process. We are in partnership with you And we I have an accountability back to you to let you know what it is We are doing and we do that based on our contract That will be coming up, but The other the probably the last parting thought is renais said we need a visitor center She is absolutely right. We do need a visitor center We have been working on this for the last three years trying to find a site Property out near the interstate is not easily accessible And when you do Access it it's very costly And we have an accepted offer On a piece of property at this time. We are doing a little bit of due diligence And if all goes well our closing date is already scheduled for june 30th. Now, this was in the works For quite some time Um We are proposing to do that without room tax dollars We believe that the room tax dollars need to be used for marketing purposes We've always done that with the exception of the administrative costs and i'm sorry, but denny's been with us 13 years And he deserves a raise For doing a good job and as we have grown tourism the demands on our time at the office have been Increased and much more strained. We do time allocation reports at the office I do mining as well and We have two other entities that we contract for administrative services the schwoigen development corp and then the safety council And so if you're working on safety council You allocate how much time you put to that if you're working on sdc stuff you allocate how much time I want to tell you the vast majority is with the cvb Because when we place an ad in midwest marketing and we get their disc in we have 4 000 packets In two days to get out of our office And i've got three people who have to stop doing what they're doing and get those out because i believe That our tourists want a quick turnaround on the information they're getting You know the complications of how we operate and all of the things that we do is unknown to many And I think that perhaps we need to identify some of that for For the study committee because if they could assess the amount of manpower that is put into our tourism promotion Efforts it's not just taking the ad out That's the easy part The hard part is when you get the response to the ad and making sure we're directing those people And including in the packets the information that they're requesting that will adequately take care of their Needs while they are visiting us So we are doing a phenomenal job with what we are given and I want to tell you if we are given more We will be that much happier because we can continue to do a great job for the city And uh, we would like to be a part of that study committee of that component advances. So thank you very much Thank you deke perhaps you missed part of the be it resolved because it says here Alderman mani That the mayor's appointees include two representatives from the bed and breakfast association Two representatives from the tourism industry three council members and two members from the chamber of commerce Okay, maybe you just missed the that whereas on there. Okay Thank you for your information. Thank you. I would welcome any questions if there are any If in mind the study um Committee is formed. We definitely would like your input. Thank you deke. Thank you Alderman radke Thank you, madam chairwoman. I want to direct this question to the old senate Um The question I have is you stated some state statutes there and pretty much that statute said Your group is that there is no other group that we could go to in the is that the way i'm reading this Well, there is I guess if you would take a percentage there's the bid district, but they're not representing the Municipality in its entirety. They represent a small downtown district So in the city of shabuagan, no, there's no other entity that's really doing complete tourism promotion And a chamber of commerce and a cvb Are typically where the public will turn When they are looking for that type of information Okay, and the follow-up to that is though You're the shabuagan county chamber of commerce now The question is to find the municipality And you're a shabuagan county chamber of commerce Does that mean there's a city we couldn't do our own thing because you're out there representing the whole county Or because we are in the county you automatically are it Well, we were a city chamber Before we were a county chamber. We we are consider ourselves the city's chamber But we recognize that if you are drawing industry to an area If you are drawing tourists to an area if you are relocating people to an area, which is what we do They aren't necessarily going to say i'm just going to stay in in in the city limits So we recognize that by marketing ourselves as a destination With all of these amenities and all of the abilities that we have here as an area That we are much more successful in doing that Being taking us from rank number 14 to number nine put us in with all of the big boys in tourism Wisconsin delts Lake Geneva Milwaukee Dane coney green bay with lambo field You know we are We're there We want to beat out the fox cities yet, but We'll continue to work on that but we are we are um We are definitely doing a good job marketing, but it's based on that philosophy We could send out information on just the city But it might not be enough to get them here and we're here to get their dollars in because that's what's going to continue to fuel the economy Does that answer your question? Thank you appreciate the question Thank you D. Olson. Thank you alderman radkey Alderman serda. Thank you madam chairman. I just also have a question for D. Olson If you could just expound on the report that you have um with some of your clients that you work with In marketing the city of shaboy didn't and highlight to the state and how you had received that contract I think it's important that the older persons know that just how much actual work goes into this and that we are getting a Cadillac service with the chamber of commerce. Okay. Well One of the things that we are and believe in as part of our destination marketing is developing partnerships And uh denny is a part of the harbour towns group for example Which are all the communities along the shoreline eastern shoreline of lake michigan And they have done some co-marketing and co-promotion where You benefit by pulling you know pooling dollars to Maximize the benefit that you get out of those and then marketing those two other areas in addition with the state We do gem grants and the state is very Specific in who they award the gem grants to and it didn't used to be this way There used to be a time when a community was putting on a festival And you could write an application for a Gem grant which is a joint effort marketing grant and that community would get the grant But now they have changed their philosophy and they are Promoting destination marketing initiatives where they're seeing Um some pooling of funds and some partnerships to help promote tourism and one of those Examples would be our lake to lake arts program, which is Fond du Lac, Manitouac and sheboygan county working together To promote in the chicago area all the cultural events And programs that are here the performing arts as well as the museums and the art center For example and those are packaged and put out there And those are joint efforts as well But one of the things that we found was when you work within the industry for a long time as denny has done He has developed some great relationships with many of the publications that we advertise in To the point where they will pick up the phone and call denny and say hey, you know This is a this is the publication. This is its purpose Does it fit your needs because we have a we have a spare You know page to fill with advertising and we're going to give you a half percent rate If you can come along with that so those kinds of things Take place because of the relationships that we build and as a result we get to maximize our dollars a lot further Thank you Thank you. Thank you D. Olson Alderman Meyer. Thank you madam chair You represent the county the chamber right do the other county lodgings pay an eight percent That in brechtford are talents No, each municipality whether it be a town village or a city under the state statute has the authority To decide for themselves whether they are going to impose a room tax or not Okay, so the room tax for shabuigan county lodgings only Work in the county or in the in shabuigan And the county doesn't pay anything the county isn't allowed to tax. Okay, so the county does provide About just short of 20,000 dollars to help out of their general purpose revenues So they don't have a collection mechanism, but they provide that to the cvb just I think pretty much as a courtesy because they see the value in what we're doing even though they don't have Have a have a county can't establish a room tax under the state statute. So it's controlled pretty much by state statute Alderman sushi. Thank you I believe that the chamber board of directors has roughly 25 to 30 people On it and i'm just wondering if you could explain why There has never been a lodging person from the city of shabuigan that is paying room tax that directly goes to you Why hasn't there been any representation from the lodging industry allowed on your board of directors? When some years you have five people representing the banking industry and still you have zero from lodging Could you please explain you said haven't been allowed. They would certainly be allowed We we have a very diverse board and of course all types of industries cannot be made up But who is ever chairman of our cvb advisory board is always on our board So we have the link with the advisory board back To the chamber board and they are asked to report out at every single chamber board meeting So there is a connection and we do have representation on our cvb advisory board from city lodging establishments Thank you Alderman berg The action on the report of officer or the resolution is number six on our agenda when we return from closed session Does that explain it again? Number six on your agenda Is the possible action will take on the ro And the resolution and number six is after we reconvene again in open session. Does that answer your question? Thank you. I would now entertain a motion to go into closed session Alderman ratki. Madam chairman make a motion to move into closed session Thank you roll call vote Roll call to go into closed session surta Kittleston Manny I Meyer I Ratki I Sigali Susha I'm staying Van Akron Hey Van der wheel D bird no E bird I Montemayor I seven eyes five names Close session going to closed session So we'll all I think that's a wonderful idea. Let's take a five minute break D bird here E bird here surta Davis Uh excused. Thank you Rob excused Kittleston Manny Meyer Montemayor Here Ratki Here Sigali Stefan excused Susha absent Here Here yes Van Akron Here Van der wheel Here Quorum is present Quorum is present Okay We're out of closed session What is your pleasure regarding ro 570506 Alderman surta Thank you madam chairman. I would move um That that ro would be placed on file We have a motion and a second That this ro 570506 be placed on file A recommendation absolutely rec only recommendation to the council any discussion Okay We will have a roll call vote about the recommendation to the council Manny Ratki All right Sigali Aye Susha See Van Akron Aye Van der wheel Aye Ballman Aye D bird Aye E bird Aye Surta Wuschtfalker Thank you We move on to the next Excuse me Kittleston So the recommendation to the council is That we have filed this Document And we'll address that at our next council meeting What is your pleasure regarding resolution 290506 Alderman Manny's proposed resolution What is your pleasure regarding the recommendation to council Alderman Manny Thank you Um Given our conversation and our decision about the previous document We might want to change this document more than I had previously Suggested by way of amendments Did we formally have those the whereas and the resolution Changed and added for those Previously clearly done On our committee of the whole Do you have to vote on the amendments Should put the document on the floor first Okay I would then move this document Be set on the council with recommendation We have a motion and a second To move this document to the council With the amendments Well Or with Not without it No without it Just as it is And then amend it on the council floor if you want to It's a We're voting whether we want to recommend to the council To consider Alderman Manny's proposal Any discussion Alderman sir Oh Alderman serda Thank you madam chairman I Cannot support So I will be saying nay to this however I don't mind sharing with Alderman Manny some of the revisions that could take place with this document And so just currently as it stands I'm going to be voting nay to it Alderman Dan Burke Thank you Yeah I too I can't Support this because As long as we've had this chamber commerce contract and everything everything has been going along fine and dandy now we want to Create another bureaucracy which the mayor Did away with the Ergo because he thought there was too much And now we want to create more people getting in the mix I think the council has been doing a good job over all these years and so has the chamber of commerce Thank you Alderman Burke remember this is to create a study committee to see if we want to create a commission Any other discussion Alderman Manny Thank you by way of amendment before further discussion formally We'd like to change the wording in the last whereas from our willing to Maybe willing Thank you and currently as printed Even though fire there was a verbalized resolution that included reimbursement At this point in time that is not added So as it stated at this point in time, I'm going to leave it that way at this point in time for the committee's Beatles recommendation and And the decision that essentially It's directed to the study special study team That I think is important to bring all those together at the table To reevaluate because we don't well do this year by year It's something that those who are involved distinctly in the industry Have much more knowledge about the region Therefore to bring all the parties to the table. This meets the long-term good of the whole city It means the concern of those parties who have in plaintiffs. It includes the chamber It doesn't do anything of these of the legal fees As currently stated therefore we have as a city In the flavor of the council perhaps opinion protected dollars But at least we're looking at long-term issues that have been historically felt and powerfully felt If we do nothing else except look at those I think we owe that to the whole city Alderman mani because the The agreement with with the chamber is we have to decide. Yay or nay by the end of june This would be a short term study committee. Correct. Thank you Alderman serda Thank you, madam chairman Just due to the amendments and so forth with this document even though I'll be voting against it. Um, alderman mani at any time you can bring this forward Maybe with the amendments and that way we can have more clarification We can have a hard copy and then explore it in the future So we don't have to necessarily jump the gun tonight. So even though I'm voting nay to this It could still be explored in the future. Thank you Procedurally Should I have a second for the amendment? I don't know what's the second We need a second for the amendment and the amendment is To change the word are to maybe Thank you Now we will be voting on The the recommendation I think the the composer can just the amendment just the amendment. Okay all in favor of the the amendment I I Yeah Contrary Thank you. We're changing the word from are to maybe that was the vote on what we're doing right now Now we will have a vote on how we will recommend if we will. Yes, I'll elderberg I would offer one other amendment On the back where it says be it for the result that the mayor's appointees include two representatives from the Bed and breakfast association two representatives from the tourism industry Three council members of two members for the chamber of commerce I I don't know that there is a bed and breakfast association I think there is a hotel years association and given that we have approximately 1000 Rooms the bed and breakfast industry should be represented But I believe their proportion of rooms is probably 15 to 20 in the total mix So I guess we could change it for lodging And I would make that amendment The amendment would be to change the words bed and breakfast association to lodging association There's been a motion and a second and the amendment of changing the word bed and breakfast association to lodging association Any discussion on the amendment to change those words? Seeing none. Let's vote All those in favor I Opposed We understand it We'll now proceed to yes Identify how to vote Oh, okay. Uh, it passed Thank you We'll now vote on Alderman Manny's resolution to create a study committee. Remember our vote is simply recommending to the council Any further discussion anybody else want to say anything just I don't chairman if I could one clarification while Alderman Manny You've got on the next to the last be it further resolved. I had circled that part at the end Committee report back to the council before the end of juniors recommendations concerning the chamber of commerce contract and the expenditure of 2006 room tax dollars You know, you really wouldn't have I'm not sure if you're talking about the budget for next year for the room tax dollars I don't know if you'd need to necessarily do that by june But About that if we do need to communicate to the chamber by june 30, right? So, um, I would offer another amendment To change those words The problem they are to Remind me To be a further resolved the next to the last be it further resolved, yeah Okay, that's many we'll report back to the council before the end of june with this initial recommendation concerning the renewal of chamber Period In other words, I'll need to say It won't be exactly as Change the word Initial I knew I wrote that but couldn't read my own writing. It's initial recommendation concerning The renewal of the contract with the chamber and then cross out expenditure of 2006 room tax dollars Anybody understand this amendment? Right Yes, yes Alderman sander will you may talk. Thank you madam chairwoman. Um It's core after ten at night. We've amended this like ten times Let's file a document alderman man. You bring a new one in to council and then let's talk about it then We can we can amend this all night and it's just not gonna happen It's just too much. Thank you I'll make a motion to file Yes, we have the motion to to um Yes, we have to we have to resolve this motion before we can go with your motion to file right now We have alderman manning's motion To change the wording in that last is that second last paragraph Do we have a second on that amendment? Second second any discussion on that amendment Alderman Ben Akron, I got a question on that Don't we have that already in there that if we don't do it by the By the 30th that it will stay the same or we got to notify them that we have to change it The line the language in the contract says Terminates at the end of the year But we have to give notice by the end of june If we don't want to renew it as it is So that's what you got and that's what you're trying to change No, they're they're deleting You know the end of june isn't very far off as far as number of meetings you're going to be able to have it's not that many but the Original language talks about the expenditure of 2006 room tax dollars. I I read that as basically coming up with the budget for 2006 And I don't think you're going to have the time to do that And I don't it really doesn't need to be done by the end of june And remember the study committee has to be finished by the end of june. It's a short term study committee Yes For our clarification purposes So we have to tell the chamber by the end of june whether we're going to renew the contract or we're going to change the contract So if we come back in july or august and say, you know something we're not we're just going to leave it as is That's totally acceptable that way So we say okay fine the contract has been fine all this time. We're going to give you the same deal We add all this time that's acceptable Just the june 30th gives us a The opportunity to change it after that If if we don't provide notice to the chamber by the end of june that We want to either renegotiate it or terminate it or change it in some respect Then it will automatically renew For 2006 what i'm saying is if we tell us tell the chamber we want to change it But then in the long run we don't end up changing it. That's fine, too. Isn't it? Well, I would think that the chamber would probably Wouldn't have a problem with that how to admire Madam chairwoman does the motion to file take precedence over any other motion I'm always going to check You may be done for Thank you all the way You can push the button on your desk, too. Oh, okay. I'm still on too You sure are Now you're done Everybody's on postpone and definitely which is file is that's the last In the pecking order so A germ lay on the table the previous question has precedence over to postpone indefinitely so so the The uh The motion on the amendment would take precedence over at postponing indefinitely which is filing Well, here we are amend that's number seven. So that's ahead of postpone indefinitely Thank you attorney So now any discussion on The last amendment which is in the be it further resolved The mayors appointees include two representatives from the lodging Industry two representatives from the term tourism industry three council members Two members from the chamber of commerce I think we won't do that one again The committee it would be the be it further resolved that the committee Will report back to the council before the end of june with its initial recommendation Concerning the renewal of the chamber of commerce contract Excluded out of the words and the expenditure of 2006 room tax dollars So we're changing one word Or bed and breakfast association to lodging You're right and then we're all okay in this one Initial recommendation is inserted And the chamber of commerce will let them know if their Contract is renewed Roll call I agree. I'm getting so tired. I can barely talk Maddie Meyer Ratkin Segale Sushia Ben Atford Banderweal Ebert No Ebert I Sirta Montemay or I So that means Your amendment fails send the on the Resolution to the council with the recommendation of file I thought we just thought of the amendments we have amendment We just voted no on the amendment, right? So I'm saying let's send the resolution to council with the with the recommendation of file Currently written. It's not good. That's pretty clear. I'll bet we'll get all the all eyes on that one Hold it. I have one thing one thing We have to vote right everybody in favor of alderman manney's proposal vote I I now before We to have The alderman bring submit their ideas for new sites That's it. That's what we will do on monday night committee of the whole seven o'clock Your agenda will be on your email. Yes, alderman ver We will do that. Thank you Um At that committee of the whole meeting will get your ideas about the new places and then Maybe that list or or or the information that we gather will be sent on to the planning department So they get or the city development They can perhaps say yeah, you're in a pretty quickly to some of the sites and then we'll go forward from there Now if you can when you bring those documents in on monday Or your ideas can you make copies so we can all see what you have to propose what ideas you have Yes, sylas. Thank you. Did you say seven seven o'clock? Seven o'clock And I can't guarantee you will be out by eight, but I sure hope so And all the involvement what did you want to say now all in favor? The junior uh, steve surely yeah last year shaboy ganork didn't lose too many games But I believe they lost one to walk a shot. They lost four of their starters, but you're right They have their best player back just a junior a 17 pointer in steve surely Now walk a shot north not real tall