 Welcome back. We're being joined by someone who would order his activities as architect, an activist, and a politician just in that order. He's the Lego son of the soil. I think that's something that I can call a Moloabi. Moloabi eko. Let's welcome Baddebo Rosevevo, the Govnorship Candidate of Labor Party. Welcome. Good to be here. Yeah. It's good to have you again. Well, but I've always wondered why knowing the kind of family you come from that you never ended up being a lawyer. So what really, what happened? Well, to be honest, I'm very passionate about science. I was top of my class in chemistry and biology, a third of my class in maths. But I was also very interested in poetry, I was also very interested in painting. So I looked for something that married art and science and architecture. Oh, architecture now fit the bill. Yes, it did. So you went into architecture. Yes. But you did your studies outside Nigeria and then you came back to Nigeria. And you branched off from the science that you've always done and you did something about policy. Yes. So when I decided to go into politics, I felt that I needed a theoretical framework for that. So I went to Unilag and got to Masters in Research and Public Policy. Oh, that's why you did that policy. Okay, but you have been an activist. You've had something about GMO. Yeah, Genesic One-Five Foods. You've also led a delegation, as it were, or a protest, or whatever I would want to call it, to the National Assembly talking about so many other things, one of which is to return, your advocacy has been to return history into the curriculum. Yeah. So why do you have that kind of a passion? You know, history is extremely important. History is the means by which society programs as citizens on best behavior and behavior that they actually are looking for a majority of people to uphold. Now, unfortunately, Nigeria and most African nations have never really taken advantage of that. We still have children being told that Mungo Park discovered River Niger. River that the ancestors were batting in when the Europeans were probably still living in caves. You have a situation where history that were being taught probably starts in 1960 and everything that existed before colonization has been painted as bad and negative and evil. So when people don't see themselves in history, don't see themselves in greatness, understand their story, you always find that they look outside of themselves to solve their problems. So that needs to be changed. We need to trace our history and our understanding of our path in the world back to ancient empires. We need to tell the story of our glory as human beings, as people that contributed to civilization and were not receivers of civilization. Until then, when a pride really comes from the inner being of a person, you cannot see yourself as operating as excellent. That's what needs to change. Well, congratulations will be in order because history has been returned to the curriculum. But the worry is, is it the kind of history you want to be taught? No, our history needs to be completely revamped. There is a history that has been taught. You have to think about history in terms of what are you programming your citizens to believe. I will give you an example in America. The history is taught that slavery or that slave trade was a migration of labor. They don't call it enslavement. Because they want to program their children to think of themselves as excellent without any stains. They will program it, they can go and find out the reality later on in life. But you see what gives the American, the French, the British a sense of exceptionalism is the history and education that they've been baked in in the education system. And that's what we need to start looking at history based on what are the things that we did, what are the people that we're going to celebrate, what are the men and women that we're celebrating, what are the kingdoms that existed, what was their interrelationship across Africa, why you want us to start trading with other states in Africa, right? Inter-African trade is at a low. If you want to send something to Namibia, it has to go to Germany and then come back down. You need to start making these places familiar in the minds of your citizens. You need to start interlacing the migration movements from northern, where we call Egypt now, formerly Kemet, down into or you're down into this part of Africa and trace mansa, Musa's movements. There's so much greatness that we need to explore that unfortunately but you cannot give what you don't have. If the people in charge of these things don't actually have this understanding of history, they can't give what they don't have. Okay, that brings us to politics proper because people who are in charge need to be the ones that can give what they have. Do you think the new generation has what it takes to take over the political space? That's a very good question. Have what it takes. I think your political leaders will be reflection of the people that are taking politics seriously at any point in time. If people get the leadership that they deserve, I do feel that there are a number of young vibrant politicians and there is a movement now, especially the obedient movement that is stepping up to take responsibility for where they want the government and their future, what they want it to look like. And I think that that is enough. But we also need a lot of people to do much more. We need a lot more people to come to the table to understand that they play a role in determining who their leadership should be and what their leadership should look like. And it's extremely important that the people put politicians in position. Politicians don't buy their way into position. So when you say leader or potential leader that's aspiring for presidency, turning down opportunities to appear at debates is because at the back of his mind he believes that he's going to use his money and buy his way into office. He does not need to sell himself. He's not needing to sell himself. It's also saying that you're not going to be accountable to the people because the people don't matter. The opinions don't matter. You're not going to give them the opportunity to hear your thought process and you're just going to go around the country throwing jibes at other candidates and not really saying much, having other people read your manifesto. And it just makes for very bad politics. In my opinion, a politics that will move Nigeria forward. It makes for good politics in keeping the status quo of what Nigeria has been and has been in the past. But that's not what we want. It's not what we want. But if it's not what we want, we need to do something about it. But do you think the problem is the age or because a lot of people will just argue everybody old out, everybody new comes in. Do you think the problem is just the age? To be a leader... Do you believe that if everybody at the hem of affairs is a youth for instance things will be better? No, I don't believe that. I think that the number one quality we need in Nigeria in leadership is empathy. We need a leader that has empathy, genuine love for people that's willing to put that love before his own interest. We need a leader that has high cerebral capacity as able to mani things and has high intelligence to make things happen innovation wise and put things in place and also appreciate and respect intelligence and not be insecure about it. There are a lot of leaders that cannot stand being around intelligent people because they feel that they will not shine or they feel that they will be belittled. So you need an excellent leader so that that team around that leader can also be excellent. That leader can thrive in excellence. We need a leader that comes at level of integrity that puts some level of value into their work and what they said they would do. In the last eight years we've seen that completely gone out. Somebody comes out and says we are the safest country in Nigeria that patrol is selling. They did not promise this. They said they would do this but now they are not doing it and we are literally watching us live the realities of a failed state but they are coming and telling us every time that Nigeria is working but they are doing excellently well. We need integrity and we need courage. A leader with courage to actually take the right decisions to move this country forward. So it's more than youth. It's important to be healthy. Nigeria is already a sick nation. We cannot hand it to the hands of a sick leader. We need health. And also you need a situation where you have a leadership that genuinely has a vision and understands dynamics of the country and is willing to manage resources by trying to do things unconventionally and using innovation to reduce our cost and wastefulness. Okay. I'm wondering how we can measure integrity. I've seen a lot of good men go into politics and you say this man is a man of integrity, a man of his words and all that and he gets there and like I usually say they seem to be bitten by a bug that spoils them and they become something else we never imagined. So do you think or what are some of the things that can be done so that the person who goes in as a man of integrity can stay a man of integrity we can hold the people who are leaders accountable because sometimes like they say power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely maybe you get there and there are no tools to hold you responsible for your actions. So what are some of these things that we can do to make sure that our leaders stay the way they were before we gave them the job? Yes, I agree with you 100%. At the same time we must also remember that we've had leaders that have lived up to this. Alagilati Uchakunde is one of these people. He showed a high level of empathy in four and a half years he accomplished what this government in the last 20 years have not been able to accomplish and did this with the civil service. So it is possible. He looked at his excellency Peter Obie the marks of integrity all across his government where he managed it and did things in the right way that should be done and that's what is giving him this support base that he currently enjoys. Now for me I feel that the most important thing first is to start your foundation of governance with transparency and accountability opening up your books acceding to the Freedom of Information Act ensuring that contract sums are based on a benchmark that's taking to consideration East Africa, West Africa and trying to get the best deal possible and being open about this with the people. I think once you set that foundation even if you want to turn crooked later on you cannot because that foundation has been set and the moment you turn now start to make your accounting and your finances especially your contract awardees and all that will pick then people will know that there is something wrong. So that's one thing that's an idea that's part of our vision that we are committing to do as Governor of Lagos and will be able to keep us on the right track. Right now you're talking about the person who is at the hem of affairs doing something to keep himself in check. Is it that some of these things that should keep the leaders in check are not available no instruments available in our polity that can keep the leaders in check that you have to invent what will be good enough for you? I think it's not even a matter of opinion or subjectivity our leaders are not in check Right? I mean we look all across the country the leaders are not in check the only time when you start to see what is really going on is maybe when there is a fight between them and somebody is talking about how a boho was killed for 70 million naira or somebody is coming and releasing information to the public but that's not normally the case. Right? So we need a situation where leaders take this situationize openness and accountability and then also respect it because it can be openly stealing and nothing comes out of it and you don't even have shame you see they say you cannot shame the shameless we are hearing that people are cutting grass for tuna and something million snakes are swallowing monies monkeys have carried monies termites have... no shame the person that is saying given that excuse you would think that they would be ashamed but no shame and that's the new normal in our country and that needs to be reversed How do you think the person who wants to uphold integrity can survive in a system that has been rigged by those people who wanted to always favor them and they are keen? Well first of all you have to be courageous and not go the route of you can't beat them joining them by joining the ruling party that has the power so that's the first decision that you are going to make the second decision is you work really hard to actually create a system that makes their system obsolete and you get into position by God's grace and the help of the good people of the country in a party that is in opposition so when you get into position you now have the opportunity to set things right now if I go into the ruling party and think I'm going to change things inside it overnight I'm deceiving myself because it's a status quo that has built itself around maintaining itself it's created a beast that has created the entire country to feed that beast so going in there and trying to change anything you are deceiving yourself if the young people, older people are deceiving yourself you might do some little positive things in one corner but overall you are not working in the interests of the people This might sound funny but why you ran away from the PDP The PDP in Lagos it has been in opposition for 20 plus years I joined the PDP because of the same things I've talked about and the PDP was a party where agreements were made between the leaders and eventually flag bear myself as well and it was reneged on and when I cannot stay in a party where I cannot sell the candidate even if I'm not the candidate because the person completely lacks integrity he's not a man of his word and really not only bars no reason to be called fine or running for a position like that so I excused them and I went into labour parties, started afresh learned the ropes and by God's grace emerged as a candidate Some people say that you were fingered to be the running mate to the person who is now running as governor in PDP That's the argument I'm talking about I'm particularly excited about but you see party politics is also about consensus it's about the minority as they say but the majority has their way and leaders in the party that I respect a great deal beauty members of the party felt that this would be a very good arrangement that allow for a seamless sort of politic and eventually I gave into it and I agreed but I have to put on record to say that it's not a partnership that particularly I wanted to run I was running to be governor candidate of the party and governor of the state but the party had his ideas I agree with them and unfortunately like I said will happen the candidate broke those agreements and showed he's not a man of one or integrity Okay so it was the sole decision of the candidate that brought in a different person to run as the running mate Yeah I mean the progressive of the candidate to choose the destiny Now what gives me concern and a lot of some other people is the fact that when first time we met and we talked like this you were running under kowa party and one of the reasons you gave for running under that platform like you have said now is the fact that kowa did not have a factor people were allowed to do that things the way they could do them and all that so the next time we heard about you you were in PDP that has Godfathers whether we see that as anyhow PDP has Godfathers same as APC and maybe some other parties and then it was after the agreement in PDP were not met that you went to labor party so we need to know what switch went we need to know what you were following around that made you take this kind of decisions even when your first appearance in kowa party seemed to define what you needed in the party as the direct opposite of what was obtainable in PDP I want to say direct opposite you see I've been very consistent all my movement has been anti APC there's never been a point where you do opposition party the next move they make they go and join the ruling party typically it has all been anti APC that's one two the PDP in Lagos state has never been in government they've never held local government chairmen you know majority of them they've had the number of state assembly that then they come they had a number of house rep members but they've never been government so everything I disdain run is in the hands of the APC and when you look at a party that has been in opposition for that long there is that opportunity to come in and win and actually chart a new course for how governance should be even when you talk about Godfathers there are people that are in power like for instance if you are in Adamawa and you want to contest the president you have a situation where you have controlled the states you've handled you've produced men that have their political giants then you have this serious Godfathers but here you have leaders I'll call them leaders and in your emergence as now the leader of the party you have a very strong opportunity to actually set the pattern and path of how governance would go in that state and in the situation where all of that backfired in terms of agreements I do not go to the APC I want to label party so there is a serious consistency here and it all still stems to getting on a platform doing the work to deliver good governance to people on our own terms but there is still so much to talk about regarding that but Bayo is standing by I'm sure he has a contribution to make questions to ask or something Bayo are you there? Yes, I'm here I'm in Miami Good morning Mr. Rose Baybo Good morning and it's really nice hearing you speak Ladies reported they contribute 30% of Nigeria's GDP Nigeria's GDP for 2021 was put at $440.8 billion which still makes Nigeria the largest economy in Africa but Lagos contributes 30% of that so that's roughly about $90 billion yet people might say that there's a lot that has happened in Lagos but there are still so many things that do not project Lagos in the light in which Lagos would like to be projected how Lagos would like to be perceived as a mega city a place where business thrives it is easy to do business and so on and so forth how do you think the actual contribution of Lagos to the GDP can be reflected who make up Lagos who make Lagos what it is the ordinary people Thank you so much for that Lagos State is supposed to be the commercial capital of Nigeria and genuinely if we did what we were supposed to do Lagos State should be the commercial capital of Africa but currently Lagos ranks I think if memory serves 19th on the ease of doing business how do you think you can do now that dealing with all those insecurity issues and there's been so much money that has been borrowed so much debt that has been earned and so much money that has been accumulated that's no reflective in the level of development in Lagos State I say to people that by 1966 Lagos State was ranked as one of the best cities in the world it was ranked alongside London, Sao Paulo I think it was 56 out of about 70 something now it is for last 10 years been ranked as one of the worst cities in the world so we have a situation where Lagos State has been captured the concept of state capture is when pretty much an oligarchy or a group of people pretty much control the entire state's resources for their benefits their family and their cronies and Lagos State is run for profit as opposed to for the people and these are the veins that are run to everything so for instance when you have the agbro phenomenon is tied to that when you have the monopoly of the BRT buses and only one company is allowed to ply that route is tied to that especially when you have a deficit in terms of number of buses that you need why can't a private individual that meets certain requirements get his buses on that lane why can't a private individual that has the capacity to buy trucks that are used for waste management why can't they also be transparently allowed to participate in waste management why are all these things so politicized why is it taking 20-something years for us to just do 16 kilometers of rail and they are quoting 1.0 billion on Lagos State books the Chinese company is quoting $170 million to their stock exchange why all this controversy because Lagos State is run for profit for people particular people as opposed to running to enable people's lives enable their businesses allow for a decentralized level of development all across the state and that is why we are not seeing the reflection of it there is a lot of tokenism in Lagos State you have a situation where I'm coming from Oshudi there is the big Lagos is and all of that it looks good I admit it looks good but once you go under the roads are terrible there is a bridge you go under the bridge portals everywhere you have the scam of people coming to do roads that will last for 6 months and then is washed away there are portals everywhere and then in a year time they come and do it all over again but the state just runs to get a government that is free from that state capture a government that can truly be accountable to the people and it's not accountable to this has even gone past godfathers only Daki that's not accountable to people that have truly captured the state and its finances and resources and that's doing where Lagos State can actually thrive and return back to the excellence that I once had Bayer is still with you thank you thank you very much some people have also looked at the industrial capacity I mean allied to the question of the contribution to the GDP is the industrial capacity of Nigeria a significant proportion of which is warehouse to Lagos between Lagos actually and Agbara and Otayu in the state you have about 60% of the industrial capacity of Nigeria what new things should be done you know because this has remained like this for a while and you know in previous times what was called the western Nigeria market in both states which is the whole of Akran Axis it's always management all of this is done in the first public but if you look recently we have not had new industrial parts development areas and so on to take the pressure of the Agbara Otayu Axis what do you think you could do which maybe the current administration has not been doing and that will mark you differently okay and even to add to that you find a lot of these warehouses are now being sold to churches because these businesses have gone out of they are not working anymore the huge unemployment especially for youth that are facing Lagos so for me there are two things the first thing is ensuring that we deliver four real lines in four years that will be able to allow for movement of people and cargo and also allow for Lagos to work a lot more efficiently and enable businesses as well and then we're going to have industrial parks that are away from the centralized part of Lagos and then also work in partnership with gas producing companies to actually provide electricity and energy and create incentives for industries and companies to go and what's the word settle and set up there also look at the current industries that already exist in Lagos state and see how we can partner with them as a stakeholder to ensure that and incentivize them to employ and hire our youth especially with the skills that will give them so all these things will be tied in together working with the private sector working with youth as stakeholders and also creating the skillset that the people potential employers will need so they'll make our youth employable but the major thing that we'll be looking at is decentralizing Lagos and decongesting Lagos really bringing the bad agri division and the eco division really into Lagos because currently if anybody not do what they did in Ekbe that whole division will still feel that they are not part of Lagos so we want to bring them in and create employment in those divisions as well but we'll be looking at stakeholders meeting with entrepreneurs meeting the industrial sector and looking at putting in policy that will ensure that their lives are enabled and they can flourish in Lagos state I would like to touch on the because you made an evolution to that now in your response I would like to touch and go back to this question of Lagos as a mega city and to see as you spoke about opening up Ekbe and Anikuru June and Badagri and actually integrating them into the greater Lagos so to speak but there are also if I understand correctly the mega city project actually also spans open state actually only Lagos because Lagos has also grown to incorporate parts of open state but if you look at it there does not appear to be at least again to us to the public any concrete strategy to fully integrate open state into Lagos the water which is consumed which is I consumed waterworks they are in open state many people don't know that they are in open state so in some ways open state is already somehow integrated but we don't see that happening so is it something you are thinking about in addition to your bringing Ekbe and Badagri into greater Lagos do you foresee something like that but now realizing that in the case of open state it's an entirely different setup because it's not part of Lagos and equivalent emissions yes that's an amazing question the corridor between Abijon and Lagos state right is a megapolis in the makis of being a megapolis in the next 30-40 years it will be the region that houses the most human beings in the world right so Lagos state in itself must expand horizontally and vertically the easier one is what is alluded to expansion upwards which is into open state and this for me will be done mainly by rail right ensuring that we can create a rail network that's connecting us even all the way into oil so that people we can now start to have a situation where is it possible that you live in open state and can get to work for 8 but you woke up at 630 or 7 by time you do this you start to decongest Lagos state right but even in the decongesting let's understand this the more we thrive the more we become excellent the more we attract small people so there is also an expansion that is going to happen horizontally as well that will be in the interest of everybody aligned from here all the way to Abijon Lagos state has to see itself not just as a constituent part of Nigeria but as a city state in itself right that has its own expansionist ideas and interest we will be doing this to survive because by default we are currently housing 10% of our population and that is also potentially going to increase to 15-16% there are many factors for this one obviously there is global warming that is happening that is leading to deforestation and all of that is happening up north people are always coming down south and the more you thrive the more you are going to attract people the point is the capacity that you are getting here you must have a system that takes them in gives them skills gives them education makes them productive members of society and puts them to work so that the entire place is generating even more in terms of GDP and also ensuring that people have things to do because and I do mind this devil's workshop and that is currently what is happening to a lot of our youth in Lagos so yes I completely agree with you there is a real line that is supposed as planned to go from Ota to Marina we need to make sure that that happens we also need to make sure we can expand that even more also right of way sharing that is currently state is doing with the red line we also need to make sure that that continues to exist and also expand on that as well we want a Lagos state where you don't have to live in central Lagos so you don't have to live in Yaba due to work in VI and also let's open up other places because we can be going to work in Ikuodu companies can feel free to set up in Badagwi because the train system is connecting you anywhere in Lagos into 5 minutes that's the vision for Lagos okay but just before I forget I'll come back to you when you talk about when you flourish people come lighter tracks insects and all that so a problem that arises from population density is education and housing what's the plan yes so I take exception to the analogy use light attracts insects because Lagos takes pride in the idea that they are generating this idea is coming from these people it's coming from people in the market place it's coming from midumota it's coming from all the people that we love to go to work in the morning so in this case the insects are generating they are generating light that is perfect they are generating light how do you allow for more of these people to be productive how do you enable them to flourish as opposed to just taking taking taking and shaking down and taking pride in that what are the incentives that they get directly for paying those taxes how can incentivize the people to actually even pay more so that is what our government is looking at it's part of my vision for Lagos state we have the commonwealth of Lagos it's a platform that allows for you for more paying taxes to have direct benefits you have direct benefits to healthcare insurance you have direct benefits to being on the affordable housing ladder so for instance going to your question affordable housing we have about 3 million housing deficit in Lagos this cannot be done and fixed just by the government private sector needs to get involved as well but in terms of government just like Alagilati Jacko did we are going to do massive housing but we are going to do it in a way that will be open and transparent and the winners that get to bear this housing will meet certain conditions want their taxpayers and I'm not saying you have to be a taxpayer you are paying hundreds of millions you are a taxpayer, formal and informal you can show and we have to automate our tax collection even in the informal sector because there are all these multiple taxations that people are dealing with the woman in Lagos island in the markets complaining about taxation and still taxation the northerna in Igomuda selling scrap metal is complaining about the same things people are just coming and taking taking taking right so once you can automate this so there is evidence of it and then there is a lottery you pay a certain money to get into the lottery and it is transparently giving when you build housing and you are selling it among yourselves it never really gets to the market or when it does it is selling for a price that is unrealistic for somebody looking for affordable housing so that is something that we are going to change and we are also going to partner with the private sector so we have a social housing components where we are cross selling not cross selling we are cross financing so all the funds that are generated from these high luxury buildings funds that government is making we are taking that and putting it into building affordable housing right and then we are making transparent we are really going out people to let them know this is available it is not something where you must know somebody to get involved in it we are going to use technology to just make everything transparent and even the playing field so everybody can get on that ladder and when you are on that ladder if you get off it you cannot sell it to somebody else it goes back to the government to make it available for somebody else that is in need right and then also bringing credit into the system because a lot of our more debtor densities because there is no credit you must accumulate so much money to buy a car you must accumulate so much money to rent a house you are paying for your house rent in one year up front or two years sometimes up front these things need to change and we need to reward proper wealth management so this credit system also we brought into the commonwealth of Lagos as a platform so healthcare education education so healthcare accommodation education I need to talk about very passion by education there is innovation as being brought into education system legal state will claim they have run 300 schools out of 1009 question how long did it take for your policy to get to the point where you did only 300 schools the same mediocrity that I am talking about you are taking 23 years to deliver on 16 km of wealth we need focus on education and healthcare and massive implementations reached as many people as possible and continuity not this flip flop of policy somebody is doing this implementation by the next year we move the person no longer doing it that innovation has died we need consistency policy consistency and we need to be able to deliver education with innovation and with technology to all the schools in legal state and invest heavily in it and not just that to ensure that because there is a high drop out rate once you get to high school but by that point you must make sure that they have practical skills and practical knowledge I went to school in Nigeria up until SS1 and most of the knowledge that we got was coming there was no practical there was no desire for people to learn the practical application of these things that they are learning and that's what we need to get to because they are in demand jobs now that we can train our people to have you don't have to go to university you'll be earning more than more that I went to university so we track these things make sure that people have access to this knowledge create infrastructure for them so like for instance in every local government who have these work and training stations where you can walk in there for free learn these skills and we open up we open you up to the world to go to compete on that global scale I know that bio is itching to ask more questions but unfortunately we don't have that much time bio and I really enjoyed it just one quick one and if we can deliver in 30 seconds let's try the APC has been in power for long and you alluded to that as well in your very incisive comments now how are you going to dismount them how are you going to make sure people see you as a better alternative to the APC okay in 30 seconds we help power because of voter apity 16% of people come out of votes in elections about it 4% are staying at home because they do not believe in the system they believe they don't believe that their votes will change anything and they are hopeless but now there is a movement of people that have hope there is a movement of people that believe that their votes will count BVAS has come there is transmission of votes directly from the poll unit to the server so people know that their votes will count there is an awakening that has happened the seed was planted during the ensal movement where people realize that there must be a two way traffic between governance and the citizenry and that has taken on a new turn and a huge tree has grown which is the obedient movement which is people that believe that they are going to participate in elections they are going to mobilize they are going to make their voices heard and they are going to come out and vote and deliver a servant leader we are relying on the people we know if people are going to get their votes because those that already do we are counting on them to come out and vote and that is the way we can actually get leadership that will serve the people as opposed to the oligarchy and state capture Okay the time is up but a yes or no can suffice in this question I am going to ask Legos you think about Legos you think of Agberu if you come in is it possible to stop the menace of Agberu on the Legos streets on the Legos streets Beautiful Well that's from our guest here the governorship candidate for Labour Party Legos State I'm talking about Badebo Rotsvaevo and he's been talking to us about a lot of other issues not just because he is the governorship candidate of Labour Party but because he's a passionate youth that wants a new order in the political realm of our country and I think that you did enjoy it but we know that as we get closer and closer to the election time we will still have need to talk with you It's our pleasure to have you on the show Thank you so much for coming Okay we'll take a break now and take the news and when we return the show continues for the last lap of the journey Stay with us