 She asked me what I do for work. After- so a Tinder date? Thank you to Scentbird for sponsoring this video. I originally planned on doing a really long, in-depth video on health MLMs and all of the predatory and weird practices of health MLMs making outrageous health claims, preying on people's insecurities, all that stuff. And I'll probably still make that video. But I set up an interview with a close friend of mine who I met through the anti-MLM community because they were involved in a health MLM at one point as well. But the interview was so informative and brought so many other issues to light outside of just being in a health-related MLM that I thought it really deserved its own video. And that's what this is today. In this interview with Mark, we dive into so many aspects of his time in an MLM, including being recruited, struggling to leave. And I think a lot of it is really relatable in a way that I could never portray in my videos just on my own. And I've never been able to have a really raw and real conversation with someone who's been involved in an MLM. So I think it's a great mix-up from other content in my channel and something that's really important in the conversation of why MLMs are dangerous and why it can be nearly impossible at times to leave an MLM without a really strong support system. So the majority of this video will be me from a webcam a few weeks ago when I was feeling a little bit better than I've been feeling lately, just having a real and honest conversation with Mark and his time when he was involved in RX. But before we get into the interview, don't forget to like and subscribe and hit that bell, all those YouTuber things, and engage with this video to boost it into the algorithm if you want. And before we get into the video, I'm gonna talk a little bit about the sponsor of today's video, Centbird. When it comes to fragrance, I'm pretty much clueless. I've spent a lot of money on fragrance in the past and ended up not liking the fragrance or just rarely using it. And this big bottle just kind of ends up being wasted. And I feel like I wasted not only my money, but also the product and just feel wasteful in general. I also struggle with knowing what perfumes I will like. And a lot of times I'll pick something out and then I'll get sick of it or not like it anymore. So I feel like Centbird is a really smart solution to all of these problems. Centbird is a monthly subscription service that lets you sample over 600 different fragrances. You choose the items you want to try and get up to three items that you want delivered to your door with free shipping. There are options for any gender and fragrance preference. And Centbird partners with top brands like Prada, Gucci, Versace, and indie labels like Glossier, Nest, and Toca. Hopefully I pronounced Toca, right? So you can try out products from a ton of reputable brands, but you don't have to necessarily commit to the product. You can try it. You can get a decent amount, like a really good size, something that's travel-friendly that you can bring anywhere with you. And you can get to know yourself and what you like through the different fragrances and brands that you try. And also I feel like Centbird is really eco-friendly compared to buying full-size perfume bottles. Your first order comes with a refillable case for simple, easy, and safe transportation. You're still given a lot of product because at least for me personally, it takes me a really long time to finish any sort of perfume bottle. But it's still a practical amount so you're never wasting a ton of perfume. And of course, there's also no bulky or ridiculous packaging that you have to deal with either, which once again to me is much less wasteful. The fragrances I got was Juliet has a gun, not a perfume. I'm gonna pronounce this wrong. I'm so un-cultured. I'm gonna pronounce all of these wrong. Atelier Cologne in the flavor in the scent Clementine California. Gucci Flora EdT and Robert Piguet Fracas. I'm, yeah, once again, I'm so sorry. I probably pronounced all of those wrong. But the two favorite that I absolutely loved was the Juliet Has a Gun and the Atelier Cologne. The Clementine California scent has obviously Clementine, Juniper Berries, and Vettiver. And it's definitely a very summery scent in my mind at least. And then the Juliet Has a Gun perfume I found to be super unique. It's apparently a one-note Wonder perfume made from musky, sheer, and sensual set-alocks. And these are the cases it comes in. You can twist it and pull out the perfume and then bring it in like that. And it's super travel-friendly, compact, simple. I like it. And then you just... So if you wanna try out some bird for yourself, make sure to click the link below and use my coupon code, Madison, for 30% off. So it's only $10 to get three separate items your first month. You can also download their app available on both Android and iOS. So it's easy and convenient to use. Just click the link below. And now let's get into the interview with Mark on his experiences in the MLM RX. As I said, the last time I interviewed someone on my channel, any disrespectful, mean, or rude comments towards my interviewee will be deleted. And whoop, let's get into it. Hey, Mark, thanks for joining me and talking all about your experience with your MLM. Of course, of course. All right, so first off, what MLM were you involved in and what products did they sell? All right, so the MLM I was involved with is RX. It's been around for eight years and they sell health and wellness products, supplements. They recently started a skin line, skincare line. So it's basically turning into Arbonne 2.0. I know, honestly. So what would you say was the RX's main selling point and did you like their products? RX's main selling point was a huge emphasis on transformation stories. It didn't necessarily have to be weight loss. It could be a skin transformation, hair. The main selling point I would say that reeled me into it was the financial opportunity. As most MLMs. So the second question was what made you want to join this MLM? Okay, so I got started with RX last June and it was around the same time when I just got a job at Buffalo Wildlings. I got a message on Tinder and it was this guy asking me if he wanted to go on a date. And then we met up that night and it was pretty cool. We went to Dave and Buster's had dinner together. Dave and Buster's is the best. Yes, it's so much fun. I miss it so much. Yeah. I had a good time and then he dropped me off at home and then the next day I received a call in the middle of the afternoon. He told me, hey, thanks for the great time last night. He asked me what I do for work. After, so a Tinder date? Yes, a Tinder date. Sorry, let me know if I'm too loud, by the way too. The mic settings, it's like hard to tell. But like a Tinder date recruited you into the MLM? Oh my gosh. Wow. You know, like you hear all these stories of someone random messaging you on Facebook or an ex-friend or a family member or someone from high school, but to go on a Tinder date with someone. Yeah, they're good at creative. What was that? Their main strategy for recruiting people? I mean, it seemed genuine at first, like I wouldn't have expected it, but the first red flag was when he called me the next day and he was, it was just kind of like a transition from thanks for going out, it was a great night and then what I do for work. And then I said, yeah, I just got a job at Buffalo Wild Wings as a dishwasher server. And then he asked me, well, hey, I was curious. You had a great vibe and it seemed like you'd be great at what I do. He asked me, would you be interested in learning more? And I said, sure, what is it about? And then he connected me to his upline and then put me on a three-way call and that's how they get you. They put you on the spot with a third party. So you're kind of coaxed into saying, yes, I agree to whatever it is. They really take advantage of people who don't like saying no, because I know like I'm that way, I'm getting better, but like I'm that way, my husband's that way. And like there's so many people who just don't want to be rude and say no to someone's face or be like, I'm not interested in this. It's like an ambush strategy almost, it sounds like. Yeah, and it's kind of like you're looked at as a bad person if you say no to them. But after getting on a call with the three of them, we set up for an appointment for the next day and conveniently they live like just a city away and I don't drive at the time. So they picked me up from my house. It sounds like a lot of MLMs do like the really aggressive tactics of like, well, we'll drive you all go together. Let's do it right now. And like, cause that's what they found works, I guess. It works because there are a lot of people who are in that vulnerable spot where they're desperate for money or they're looking to make friends. So how can you say no to someone who's open arms, ready to welcome you into their life and want you to be a part of it? So yeah, so they picked you up, they took you to a meeting, Ray, and then how did it go from there? Oh, one catch about the meeting is they wanted me to dress up in business attire, like full on suit. In reality, you probably could have shown up in whatever you wanted and they'd still recruit you. Yeah, that's what I thought too. And the crazy thing is I was coming from school and I only had a backpack. I didn't have any dress pants or a suit at the time. So I just showed up and literally a polo. I was so underdressed. There were like three others and everyone was decked out in suits, wearing nice shoes and I was wearing tennis shoes and the school uniform. And then they sat me down and asked me questions. And one of the questions I remember was if I had all the time, money, and you could do something without fail in the world, what would you be doing? And then I said, I would be going on vacation with family and traveling with friends and other stuff like that. And then they showed me this hour video of the company, what it's all about. And basically asked me if I have any financial goals and do I see RX as the vehicle to help me get there? So it was all financial, even though it's technically a health MLM, it doesn't sound like they really talked about the products at all. It was more just about your income potential, like just selling you all of your dreams and being like, that's what you can achieve with this. Yeah, and what did I know? Because it was my first encounter with an MLM. I just got a job as busboy at Buffalo Wildlings. And it's like, how could I dismiss the idea that I could have that if I just stuck with those guys? So what made you decide to join? Was it like the meeting with RX that made you like, okay, I'm gonna join this company or was there something afterwards that made you decide to join? It was a combination of a couple of things. The first one being I was 26 at the time. And the upline to share that he got his bachelor's degree UC Berkeley, which is a really prestigious college over here. And he said he didn't pursue a career and just went straight into network marketing. And also the question constantly hit me of, do I really wanna be a busboy at Buffalo Wildlings the rest of my life? And then they like to throw these catchphrases and stuff like, oh, and you gotta envision more for yourself. Like you gotta want more out of your life. Like all those blasé, grandiose things. Yeah, no, it sounds like a lot of MLMs target people who are kind of at transitional stages in their life. Cause when you're in that transitional period, you want so badly to have a job opportunity that you're excited about. You wanna like be like, okay, this is my calling. And, you know, I think a lot of people are looking for that. But upon seeing yes to the opportunity, I said, yes, I'm down to give it a shot. And he said, great. And then took down my information and he said that there's a $30 starting fee just to be a part of it. And then I had to purchase 200 points in product, which was about 180 bucks. Or in the next week or so to show my seriousness, get my business activated and hit those 200 points by recruiting or selling to customers. And I was just in community college and I didn't have a job before landing the job at Buffalo Wildlings. So I couldn't even pay for that. I only was able to get started with the water bottle, which was 50 bucks. Wow. It's a $50 water bottle, which they hyped up to say, can purify anything, 99% viral. I gotta look up more about it, but. Yeah, just magic water bottle. Like sacred or something. You gotta have it. That in itself is a whole interesting aspect of MLMs. Cause it's like, you can do this and make a ton of money, but also our products are the most magical things in the world. I'll change my life. Like this is a magical opportunity and our products are magical and life-changing. It's like, you can't have both. Like that's unrealistic. Like it can't be both. Also, that just makes me really sad too. Cause like knowing when I've been at my worst points in life or I'm like negative in the bank account, but like desperate to make money or like find an opportunity. And it's like, I feel like at that time, if someone had, you know, made up this MLM sound like the best opportunity in the world, I probably would have jumped on it and spend $50 when I literally could not do that. You're in the MLM, you know, you're excited about this opportunity cause this dude that you went on a Tinder date with, which by the way, I'm so curious, how did that go after? Like, like, did he continue to date you or was it just to like recruit you? And then after he was, you know, just your upline or I'm so curious about that. Okay. So it was just, it was literally just to recruit me. Yeah. So before the pandemic, there was a Saturday training right after I said yes. And I got picked up by his upline and then I saw him there. And I know it was just silence. Like he didn't greet me. I tried to be like, hello. And then he didn't, he didn't say hi to me. Like I didn't exist. It literally was just to get me over so I can build his team. I wonder how many people he's done that to. It sounds like I was his first successful recruit doing that. Yeah. Because I was only one in his downline because he's been around in the company for about four years or so. And his recruits have seemingly left or in SoCal because we're all over the place. That's so interesting. Cause like also I think I've heard of people that like go on the Bumble Friends app and like do it. Oh, BFF Bumble. Yeah. That go in like BFF Bumble and like they'll kind of be like, hey girly are you wanting to join a business opportunity? But I've never heard of someone like going on a date with someone to me. That's like, that's pretty gross in my opinion. I'm just like, do. Yeah. It was just like make your intentions clear. Like I didn't expect it because it seemed like a genuine connection. You want to get to know me and everything. It gets your guard down because any sort of like dating you have to be vulnerable. And then so you're opening up your vulnerable and then all of a sudden someone takes advantage of that and they're like, join my business opportunity. It's like, that's, that's crazy. Did you end up, you know, focusing on just buying the products or were you trying to recruit people? And if you were, how were you trying to like recruit people? And, you know, by the way, don't feel bad about that when you're in an MLM. That's a huge part that's like constantly being encouraged, you know, recruit, recruit, recruit. And the way I saw it was at the time because I didn't have the money to activate my business because how he put it is I could activate my business by purchasing product 200 points in order to start making commission. But I didn't have that. So my only way to get activated was to recruit. So I had my first customers being my mom, a friend I met and then my cousin as my first three customers. And how did you recruit them? Yeah. So out of the hundreds of people I messaged, they were the ones who joined me, whether it's because out of sympathy or I put it in a way where I would make it up to them. And basically the main way I recruited was our upline is huge on Facebook. And so he encouraged us to use Facebook Messenger as a way to recruit. He sent us templates, documents of copy and paste messages that I could select from and choose which one to send according to who I'm reaching out to. If it's high school friend, there's a template for that. If it's a cold message, someone I don't know, I would do that. And he also encouraged us to join Facebook groups in hopes of finding new people who I've never met to reach out to and see if one would take the bait. And did that overwork of a cold message? No, either I would get left on red, check an hour later, follow up and look that I've been blocked. It would be a lot of no thank yous or you're in a scam. What are you doing, messaging me? Basically it was a combination of polite messages and hostile messages to people who already know what's up. Yeah, yeah, definitely. It's interesting. So when that was happening and you weren't able to recruit people off of cold messaging, like how were you, how did you feel about that? Here you are with this guy that looks like he's such a big shot and so successful at this and I'm really successful on Facebook, just cold message them, this'll work, send them this template and then you try it and you keep trying it and it doesn't work. During that time, what was your thought process and feelings about the whole recruiting structure? So how it usually went is I would cold message people throughout the week. He said 10 to 20 per day and then update with results which felt like torture to me because it was like reporting or turning in homework, like what are your results? And then after a week of having no luck, having no people even express any kind of interest, I would visibly show up to the Saturday meetings, discouraged, I'll visibly show up discouraged. I don't hide it very well, so the appliance would ask me about it and try to talk me into getting motivated again, like, hey, just keep in mind and remember that you're helping people, you're giving them a gift, you're presenting this opportunity to change their life and you're well on your way to do it also if you just keep showing up. They like to throw around like cash phrases again of like attitude determines altitude, other cliches, stuff like that. That just sounds super manipulative that like you would go through this cycle of just being defeated, be like, this is not working, like, you know, I'm, you know, not succeeding at this, like I'm not enjoying it. And then they'd be like, oh, well, you're just not feeling motivated. Get motivated with us. And then you'll be better. I know you sent me over some posts that you made at your time in ARX and I was thinking maybe we can read them together and kind of like, I'll ask you like, what was your thought process in posting this? Like this is a template, like all of that. Cause yeah, it's kind of fun. Cause you know, like there's so many videos of people reading off MLM posts of people in MLMs. But I think it's fun to read off the MLM posts after an MLM, after someone was in an MLM and be like, what was this? Okay. So I'm just going to go into the ARX. Receipts? Yeah. All right, okay. So the first post that you sent me. This is a post my offline made. Okay. So every story has got a goal behind it. This promotion represents the resilience of our tribe during these crazy global times. Okay, tribe. Sounds a little cold-dish. When the pandemic hit, what makes me gush with pride is our teams stepped up as leaders, completely pivoted our approach. And the result was hundreds of families positively impacted their health and businesses. So basically what they're saying is they targeted a lot of people during the pandemic. It sounds like, yeah, yeah. Let's keep on charging the mountain team with all the updates coming quarter three is going to be nuts. So it was the whole structure, like certain quarters with different goals you have to hit. And then the uplands basically making posts being like, let's do it team. Like we're a tribe. I was really invested in that because last year it was around March. I was really ramping up in the business and took it seriously. January to March would be a quarter. And then the next three months, the next three months, we had a meeting every Monday night and we would set a goal to hit the next title, which is like a rank. And they encouraged us to post weekly about the business and where you are and getting people to like your post and then to those who like your posts, you then reach out and send them a DM or a private message. It's literally like a part-time job except for you're not getting paid hourly for your work. I almost like look at that post of one of your upline members, a previous upline members. And I'm like the audacity to be like, yeah, we're a team, let's go. Like for some reason it like makes me frustrated because I'm like, no, you're not. Like these people, you're putting these people to work and not paying them like, you know, for their work and you're telling them to hit their goals but it's all to benefit you. It like makes me mad almost. So this is a Mark Ramos post, the second one. That's me. When shelter in place hit, I was deemed an inessential worker and got my work cut immediately, which I'm so sorry to hear. That's horrible. Fortunately, I had a side hustle in the wellness arena where I was able to not only help a lot of people with their health needs, but also replace my previous job income in a fraction of time from the comfort of my home. So were you actually able to replace your income or was that kind of like a fake it until you make it part of the post? Okay, so I remember writing this and it was, it's so cringe. He had me, my outline helped me write this on a good week. I recruited two people and had two customers who got started with big packs. I got really lucky that week and I got a pretty good paycheck, but the weeks and almost months before that, I was making like 17 bucks a week because of our auto delivery cycles, which a lot of them seem to have. It's the spend as much in product to stay active in the business, but he had me write that. And yeah, I mean, it's accurate like when I- That week. Yeah, that week. Can I say the rest on the other weeks? No. Interesting. Okay, that's good to know. This is the last paragraph. I feel so blessed and grateful for this opportunity. I want to share this to encourage you all that when one door closes, another door opens. Things happen for you, not to you. Yeah, very toxic positive, right? Yeah, how do you feel about like looking at these posts? I mean, looking back at it, I can see that this is someone full of crap because this is a very good, this is clearly a good week for them and not a weekly occurrence. I did have a hand in writing that post. 90% I would say was my upline. So I can post it on social media to be this clean crystal clean opportunity that people are really going to want to latch onto. Would you say that like when the pandemic hit, did they become more aggressive with like, okay, you got to recruit people and like, let's do this, let's make this post or were they just kind of always like that? Before the pandemic, we were have Tuesday, weekly Tuesday, 19 calls, but as soon as the pandemic hit, I remember it was specifically St. Patrick's Day last year. Within the same month before the month of March ended, he added on a Monday, 19 call because he was like, oh, people are really looking or we got to take advantage of this. Yeah, so next post, you're talking about the quarantine lean challenge and this is definitely where I can see the comparison photos coming into play and everything, which it does, it looks like you lost weight. I don't think that's because of the MLM but just because you're awesome. Well, not that weight loss, you know, dictates your awesomeness, I don't know. It's the dedication. Yeah. And the good vibes, of course, always the good vibes. And let me see. So since the beginning of the year, I decided to take up my health more seriously and hop on this health program. I'm so grateful I've been introduced to. I never thought of myself as someone big, but I did have a little bit of extra winter coat that seems so hard to bust through. I've not only been feeling way healthier, but now lost almost 15 pounds, toxins and excess fat, no more, no more toxins. Thanks to RX. Now I wonder what it would be like to replace those 15 pounds of fat with 15 pounds of muscle. There's a lot to unpack in that. Was this like a post that was encouraged by your upline or were you just like, yeah, damn, I lost, I'm looking good, I lost some weight, like I'm going to make a post about this, promote my business, all that. The month of April, we had a slenderized challenge and I took part in it. On the last day, we had a team call. The main upline encouraged each of us to post a status to draw attention to us. It would be like a ploy to get people in our inboxes. I definitely think that was really deliberate because that was at a time when like, I remember everyone was talking about like, okay, quarantine workout or like, are you gaining weight during quarantine? Which it's like, you know, we all do. We all go up and down in our body weight during situations like 2020, that's nothing to be ashamed about. But I wonder if they had this whole challenge and everything created to kind of intentionally target people who are feeling insecure about possibly gaining weight during quarantine and all of that, which is so interesting. So many times I think we look at the people that are posting on MLMs or like we look at the poster themselves and we look at them and we're like, oh my gosh, this is horrible because like they're, you know, they're targeting people, they're doing this. And it's like, well, they might not be fully conscious of it. Their outline might be constructing a lot of this or creating the challenges and they're just going along with it because they trust their outline, you know? So it's like, even though they might look like the ones at fault because they say something or do something that we're like, oh, I don't agree with, they might not actually be the ones that are kind of outfall for that. Like they might kind of be orchestrated by someone else. Yeah, exactly. When you're in an MLM, because you've basically given your life to the uplines because they're guiding you with everything, you can't see the ulterior motives, you're seeing it as, oh wow, I want people to join me on this health and fitness transformation journey. And I was so excited to take those pictures too. And not knowing that it's for recruiting purposes, I willingly did it. And in good faith just did what they said, which is, hey, message everyone who likes your posts and reply back to everyone who comments and then see if they would be interested in joining you for next month because it was a monthly contest. It reminds me of like when you're in sales and your entire job is sales and like, I don't know why I'm thinking of the show Workaholic. Oh, I love that show. But like they're given, you know, basically their leads and their script for like any sort of, you know, telemarketer, and like that whole industry has its own things. But like they're given that script and they're given leads to call and they just do it, you know? Cause like they trust their boss, they feel that their job is legit. It's the same thing with MLMs except for it's on a more personal level. And of course the business structure itself is way more predatory. But like when you're in it, like, you know, you're probably just seeing it as like a telemarketer job where it's like, okay, these are, let me go find my own leads and have this sales pitch. So you don't really realize that until you take a step back. Okay, let's look at some other ones. So this one doesn't have like your name on it. The, have you heard of the quarantine 15? Oh gosh. Oh gosh, the quarantine 15? Oh no. Okay. And so is this one of your upline members who? Yeah, it's the same person who made the post before the one we just read, James. Yeah, same person. Okay. He's the one who writes like that. Yeah, he was the one that I also, he's the one I consulted for most of my MLM posts. I always reached out to him because I wasn't getting the engagement that I wanted. And he kept saying, hey, if you just word it this way and do as I say, which of course, if he puts it that way, of course, because I want to wrap up in the business, right? So I ran with whatever he said. However, he typed things, even though that doesn't sound like me at all, like I would write it verbatim. And that's, and that's so sad because I'm sure you felt so awkward too. Like I feel like I would feel really awkward because like I'm posting in a way that's like not me at all. Like all my family and friends, I'm sure probably no, like that's not the person I know. Or like, what's that? And he is like the ultimate robot with these. So have you heard of the quarantine 15? Oh my gosh. When the combined stress from homeschooling the kids, working from homes, gyms being locked down and perhaps a little too much Netflix and alcohol, the little like sweat emoji have led to weight gain. First off, was he like a health professional in any way or like a certified nutritionist or personal trainer? No, he's not a nutritionist. He's not a health coach, but because he recommended those products, apparently he's a health expert now. Yeah, self-proclaimed. Yep, yep, you can do anything if you just believe hard enough. Whatever MLM you're in, it means you are a certified expert. We took an intimate group of a hundred people to take the hashtag hibernation transformation challenge and showed them how to drop 10 to 20 pounds in a month, burn fat while enjoying their food with a little like a fogey. Breakthrough stubborn plateaus. At first I read that as peanuts for some reason. Out loud, boost your energy and immune system with no chemicals. Absolutely no chemicals. It's not like our world is made up of chemicals and that's H2O is a chemical. As like Rebecca was saying in the discord. No starvation diets, which I mean, at least that's good. No rebound fat. Although it kind of sounds like this is a diet. Is this just me? But it kind of sounds like this is a diet. And no BS. While in California, our state hasn't opened up. We are now opening our doors to the world. And would like to challenge you to take on the hibernation transformation challenge. So what does that mean? They were opening their doors to the world. Yeah, this is part of a Facebook group. It's called the wellness 360 on Facebook. Before this post, actually it was closed only to current customers and representatives. And then upon making that post, everyone in the organization already in the group was then encouraged to pitch to family members and friends, anybody, you name it. Wow. And they have weekly raffle giveaways, grand prize winners, direct support from wellness advisors, which I feel like is like so misleading because it makes it sound like it's like experts. Get that summer body early and trees open, slots are limited. Let's come out this quarantine, the best version of you. Oh, and I see all the like before, the befores and afters too. Is your photo on here? I can't. No, I didn't have a drastic enough transformation. So what do you think like the worst part of RX as a company is? I think the worst part in my experience would be the fact that they go after students or middle-aged people who are at a point in their life where they're kind of aimless or don't know what to do. And they come to you as a wolf in sheep's clothing with the nice cars, the nice apparel luxury designer. They come to you and reach out to you and seem like they're lending you a helping hand, but really it's all to benefit them and make them money. Was there any aspects of the MLM that you did like during your time there? I would say that fortunately, I'm not someone who had a horror story such as people in Monat where I lost all my hair or ended up suffering with health effects from taking their products. I'd say the positives I would got from it are the community, but I no longer talk to any of them because, well, maybe two people from my downline, which were my cousin and a good friend who we text each other every now and then. When I was pretty involved in the group, I got to exercise some creativity in making the posts. Like I would come up with posts and then run it by the upline and say, hey, what can I work on here? It's really interesting mentioning how you liked the creative aspect and stuff because a huge belief that I have about people that are in MLMs is the things that they like in MLMs exist in other ways as well. Like other online businesses or creative aspects or jobs that you can potentially have just that they find those outlets in an MLM and don't realize that this MLM is actually draining their bank account or it's not working out for them because they're enjoying some aspect and then their upline is continually keeping them in and then being like, come on, keep going. The saddest part to me is when you mentioned that you enjoyed the community aspect but after you left, no one talks to you anymore or you don't talk to anyone anymore. How did that all go down? When I left, I kind of left it in silence. I didn't let anybody know. I didn't let uplines know. That's probably a good way to do it. Just kind of not letting them manipulate you or anything like that, yeah. Yeah, I'd say that's the way I recommend for anybody in MLMs now who are about to leave to just do it. Don't let anybody know. Don't make it public. Just count your losses and get out because the sooner you get out, the sooner you can continue on with your life. You don't owe an explanation to anyone about like why you're leaving or telling them that you leave. Like you do not owe that. You can leave at any time you want and you don't need to explain to anyone why. So what made you realize that this was not a good opportunity for you and that you got to get out? It was after the Sledderize Challenge in April when I had 10 people on the challenge, but then I was looking to do the same thing again with more people and only three returned which were my downline, my cousin, a friend I have out in SoCal and my other friend in New York and there was only the three of them. I kept going to our team calls but then I started to notice that I was the only one showing up to the team calls. I would reach out to the three people I had on my team and they would conveniently not answer at the time. I was trying to get them on the call with me which rightfully so. They were kind of giving up or like their motivation was low and all of that it sounds like. Yeah, motivation was dying out and one of them told me that I can't do the monthly payments anymore because it would be a monthly occurrence of buying products which were about $180 a month and especially during the time we were experiencing last year no one has that kind of money floating around. And also, I started to find out and came across Kiki videos and the crazy thing is even though she was raising great points you're not a friend to your upline you're just there to make that money. I would wrestle with some of the things she would say because in the other year I would hear my upline's voice saying what was she know? It's a broke mindset. She's never been an element of them. Like what was she know? Like take those things with a grain of salt. Kiki is so smart. Like from the videos that I've seen I definitely think she has a lot of knowledge in business. It's so funny, whatever, right? I hear that from the MLMs especially when it comes to like bigger YouTubers like Kiki and other people where it's like, now they're also they're making a lot of money on their YouTube videos. Like those get a lot of views. Like they're definitely not in a broke mindset and helping people get out of MLMs. Yeah, it was that period of wrestling with my thoughts. Like what's in it for me? I even made a pros and cons list. Pros, I am part of the Facebook group where I get to talk to people. There are products that I like but at what cost, right? And then the cons were a lot more. I'm losing money. I'm not making sales. I'm not recruiting anybody and no one's building my team. And I seem to be the only one showing up to the team calls. That whole argument runs to a lot of people in Beachbody too because like so many times the argument in Beachbody like, oh, well, I just like the shakes. So like, you know, I'm just staying in because I like the shakes, which first off, I've tried the Beachbody shakes. They are not good. Like they do not taste good. I do not understand that. Like what do you mean? But second off, like there's so expensive for like the taste and just their contents and like you can find so many better options. But you know, I also get like if you're a friend or recruited you or people that you know, you've already feel like you made a commitment. It's like, oh, well, maybe it's easier to just kind of keep that going a little bit for the products and stuff than like fully backing out and having to have all those tough conversations and everything. But the last straw that really sealed the deal put the thought in my head that I really got to get out of there is earlier in the year when I had an aunt pass away due to COVID out in Singapore. Well, I'm going to send you the post and we can read it together. So it was a post I made upon hearing the news that my aunt passed away and then I was reaching out and grieving openly about it. So the Facebook post says, I woke up to my mom crying at 4 a.m. this morning and I found out that one of my aunts on her side of the family lost the battle to COVID-19 and passed away overnight at 63. I had so many memories of her picking me up from school and making me food when I was growing up in the Philippines. That's so sweet. I remember also when she and my uncle opened up their home to us when we visited Singapore and we had such a great time. My condolences go out to my cousins in Singapore who I haven't seen at least a decade. Stay strong for Tito Nester. Please remember to hold your family and your loved ones even closer especially during this time. Reach out to that one family member even if it's over a text just to wish them their well-being during these times. It's literally the thought that counts which is such a good point. Like even with me, like my own family members I during this year, like I moved, I had all this, you know, like I was all this craziness going on and I like lost touch with my grandparents. And then I found out last month that they had a COVID scare and like contacted them and I just felt so horrible cause it's like if they actually had COVID and you know, something happened cause luckily they didn't have COVID. You know, I would feel so horrible cause I didn't reach out. But yeah, that was a beautiful post. Yeah, so with that, I got messages from everyone else in RX, the organization they even acknowledged it on a team call and he says, so sorry for your loss Mark we're here for you, anything you need. And then a week later of not hearing from him he kind of lay low because I was going through it right. He then told me, I noticed that you got a lot of engagement on your posts. Have you started to reach out to those people? And then basically saying go ahead and message those 180 people who liked your posts and see if they would be open to a health or fitness transformation. Wow. And I was at a loss for words because it was just like, you really want me to exploit my aunt's death in order to build my business. Yeah. It's sad too. Cause I think, you know, a lot of people when they're in the MLM for such a long time they're, they almost get conditioned to think like engage with everything. If someone engages with your posts like interact with them, it's just business. Like, you know, this is just how this business is done. But then you take a step back and it's like, I had a death in the family. And I mean, at least they acknowledge that but like you're asking me to turn it into a business opportunity, like, you know and turn it into like something that'll benefit my business. And there's, I don't think there's really there's very few other companies that do that, you know. After hearing that, I said, no, I haven't reached out to those people. And then I followed his lead. He sent me a copy and paste message that even included, hey, thanks for acknowledging my posts about my aunt. How have you been doing during shelter in place? And then because I was so desperate and seeing if there could be something that comes for this, I gave it two weeks of reaching out to those people who like my posts in hopes that maybe he is right. No one was having it. Everyone was just showing sympathy and extending kindness. It was never about buying product, which I understand no one. No one in their right mind would just go ahead and buy product because they feel sorry for someone. Most people aren't expecting that they're being going to be exploited in that way. Yeah, they're reaching out to be like, I'm so sorry that happened. Was there ever a point where you're debating with yourself? This isn't working, but I wanna see it through. It was at the point when I actually had five people on my team. If I quit, where would they go? And it didn't sit right with me that because I'm the one who brought them in and I just leave, they're stuck in the business. Yeah, so that almost keeps you locked in because it's like, I don't wanna leave these people behind that. I'm pretty much leading. So three more questions. I'll try and make it quick so I'm not taking up too much of your time. Looking back at your time in that MLM, what was your least favorite part of that whole experience, would you say? My least favorite part is when the uplines would subtly exercise their power over me. One example being when we were able to meet in person on Saturdays after the team meeting, we were then encouraged, well, basically had no choice, to make at least 15 phone calls to contacts or cold message. I usually had work right after that. There would be days when I just absolutely didn't wanna make those calls. I would ask, hey, can you please take me to work now? I don't wanna be here. And then he would say, why don't we make those 10 to 15 calls first? And then I'll take you to work. I'll drop you off. It would just be a subtle way of exercising his power. Like, hey, you're here, I took you here. I'm the reason how you're gonna get to your next destination. So better make those calls. Wow. It's sad cause I'm sure they did it with a smile. They're probably like, why don't you make those 15 calls first? And then we'll do it. It's like, you don't think at first like, oh, this dude's kind of an evil villain, but it kinda sounds like he is. Looking back on like your time, like in having like a year of experience, what do you think is the thing that kept you in the MLM the most? And prevented you from being like, oh, I need to leave like a lot sooner? It was a constant bombardment of love when I would log on to our team call, everyone would clap. And then the fact that there would be times when I got a customer or someone joined my team, it was this immediate reassurance by them that you're on the right track, keep it up. It's like, it's almost being gaslit, if you think about it. I know that word's thrown around so much, but like you're literally the whole time being gaslit because you're like, this isn't working. Like I'm not recruiting people or like maybe I recruit sometimes. And then like there is like this overencouragement. And then when I'm like kind of not doing as well in my business, they're acting like I'm doing wonderful or I just need to be more motivated. And so like it just sounds like every time you would go to like a meeting and like you'd be discouraged, they'd be like, no, you're fine. Like you're doing fine. Just keep going. Like this isn't bad. This is just you need to be more motivated. And then when you'd have those like little successes, they'd be like, yes, that's amazing. You're a superstar. Like awesome. And so even though like probably monetarily, it wasn't like you were on your way to being a millionaire. They made it almost sound like that. You know, like they made it look like you are. And so I'm sure it like almost convinced you like to just keep going and like you're almost there. Another key thing I noticed too is that whenever I was around one of them or a big group, I would feel like I'm in a whole different world. And so because of the overly positivity that they all had, I went with it because I like being positive and being happy. And I thought that if I just matched them, my problems would inherently go away, which they didn't. It was kind of this phase I went through of maybe if I just reject what friends or family who are telling me, no, you're being scammed. This isn't a good opportunity that's benefiting you. I wouldn't listen to that and hang on to that hope and strong belief almost of I'm going to attain this one day. What advice would you give to people who are in an MLM or who maybe are being pressured by someone else to join? My advice to anyone who is in an MLM now would be whatever MLM it is, whatever it's focused on, if it's hair, weight loss, skin, get your transformation story. If the products supposedly do work and then get out because if you do bring those people using your transformation story and they don't achieve those same results and they eventually lose money, it's your fault because you pitched to them and presented this business opportunity or products that were set up against you or don't work for you. Totally, yeah. Do you feel some guilt maybe for your time in there and the people you recruited? Yeah, when I left in September, the moment I decided that I'm not doing this anymore, I'm not going to be cold messing people, I reached out to my friend and my cousin and told them, hey, I'm leaving RX, I want you guys to come with me, I'm thankful that you guys believed in me to join my team but this opportunity I've come to realize is no longer working for me and I really implore you guys to leave with me and get out of it. And so they said yes and I apologized profusely. You didn't know, you had no idea and you were rubbed into it and then it's this vicious cycle that just constantly continues. Though I will say I do think that the guy that recruited you is a total slime bag and knew exactly what he was doing but you had no idea and it seems like that was awesome that you tried to make amends and kind of then help your friends and it sounds like they appreciate that and they know how good of a person you are and don't hold that against you. Yeah, definitely. I felt that it was the least I could do because I was making money off of their auto delivery cycles and I could tell that they were disgruntled the whole time. I had myself to blame because I was being so encouraging to them that hey, join me on the call, we're gonna get so much out of it, golden nuggets. Wow, yeah, thank you so much for chatting with me about all that. I think that hit on so many important topics and was super eye-opening and I really appreciate you talking. Thank you so much for doing the interview. Of course, thanks for having me. I forgot to film an outro but once again, thank you so much to Mark for sharing his experiences and what he went through when he was an MLM rep in RX. Mark has also said that he'll be responding to some comments down below. You'll usually find him in the comment section of a video of mine or any lovely anti-MLM creators video. So if you have any questions for Mark, definitely leave them down below and if he has the time, he'll get to them. I also wanna give a shout out to all my Patreon members, including Mark. If you wanna join my Patreon and meet lovely people like Mark, the link is in the description down below. You can also check out my merch right below this video and I'll see you guys in the next one.