 change on the, on the assessment. So I, yeah, I think now you would be able to view that. So if you're, if you're able to, one of you all could just try again and see it's just a toggle switch that's, I don't know, it doesn't save at times. I've had the problem multiple times. So just let me know if you're not able to access it and I'll go back once again and give it a check. Okay, so we were looking at mental health illnesses and now we're just going to address a couple of questions. Okay, great. It's opening now. Wonderful. Thank you. Yeah, so we'll just address a couple of questions with regard to what we had discussed. I would be also, I found the material that I was talking about. So after class, I will put it up on the stream. There are two, one is an article and the other is a book and the book is actually that which helps the, it is a, it is a book for the families of the mentally ill. Okay. And I think it will be very useful for some of us to read that or, you know, even as you're going forward in ministry to be able to help people with that. So you could, you could take some time to read that thing and I'll put it up in the screen, screen, stream once we're done. Okay. Now to just handle a couple of general questions. Through this entire course, something that resounds our learning is, is that the Lord is interested in the well-being of not just our spirits, but he is interested and wants wholeness in our spirit, in our soul, as well as, as well as our body. And we read that in Psalms 23 verse three, he says God is the Restorer of our souls. And we've seen that our restoration and our wholeness comes from many things we've spoken about it. One is just our basis of our healing and our deliverance and our wholeness comes from the cross, from what, from what Jesus did for us on the, on the cross. And when we continue to receive the power and everything that he's broken as a result of him going on the cross and resurrecting there to be alive again, wholeness becomes us. He also brings us healing by his word and also by the Holy Spirit. So it is absolutely right, appropriate, completely our need and our right to desire wholeness in every part of our us, our body, our souls, our spirit, no matter what the kind of causes. And like we spoke about, whether it is a medical, whether it is a biological, whether it is a natural cause, whatever it may be, or whether it be something that's inflicted by the enemy in our lives, we are in a place to desire that wholeness and wellbeing. Okay. And we, of course, we, and through the entire course, we learned that there are ways, practical ways in which we receive that wholeness. We continue to stay, maintain that and continue to stay and walk a journey in, in through that emotional wholeness. Okay. Now, we'd want to look at a couple of questions. We want to attempt some questions that may not be specifically addressed in scripture. There isn't a reference that is addressed in scripture, but we come to a place of understanding, knowing the general teaching of scripture and focusing on who, on the attributes of who God is, focusing on what his purposes are. And, and, and as we answer that question, you know, we get a little bit more clarity about how we move forward. So I think the question that somebody, I think Rishi Kumar, you bought, bought about is, are all emotional problems caused because of demons? And we, we spoke about that. We said, emotional problems can be because of a variety of reasons or a variety of sources. And, and some of that we spoke about, we said there can be physical causal factors, which can be chemical imbalances, there can be injuries that happen, or there can be as a result of other kinds of invasive surgeries that can happen, or other illnesses that occur to the body and as a result, bring about mental health conditions. Okay. There can be some of the causes are unhealthy habits. We spoke about this, right? Like substance abuse or alcoholism, drugs, pornography, not, not having a good, healthy lifestyle, not eating well, not exercising, all of that can cause general emotional, emotional issues. We do see that circumstances and challenges can, can also cause emotional problems. It can be situations that are stressful over periods of time. There can be sudden traumas that take place. Certain experiences that a person goes through, either it be maybe a loss of something or they can be catastrophical, you know, issues that, that come about, that brings about challenges that can be break down in relationships. There can be difficulties in, in adjustments in, in certain situations. So these kinds of multiple circumstances challenges can definitely cause an emotional issue. And of course, there are, yeah, and also the mental health conditions. One, more than mental health conditions, the mental health practices, people engage in, you know, someone who has a low self confidence or a low self image, tends to have repetitive forms of thinking and dysfunctional patterns of thought, which can cause conditions like depression, anxiety, fear, panic attacks. That, that is another cause. And spiritual sources, those sources where there are demonic spirits that cause depression and oppression. Okay. Now, what is the scripture? I think we, we will look at what scripture talks about. And there are certain verses that's listed, especially in, in Deuteronomy. And it says that mental health conditions are a curse. And that, and what is listed there, it results from sin and disobedience. So we're looking just what, what scripture talks about, about what it says. So anything, and remember, what we, what we believe, what we know is the Lord broke every curse, every curse so that we can be a blessing. So whatever the causal factor is, we understand that through the cross is where we have absolute deliverance, making mention of some of this of the mentions of this in scripture. And there is also an appendix at the end of this chapter, which we're not going to go into, but it's only for your understanding and reading of the, the kinds of evil spirits that have been identified in scripture, or they're usually identified by the problem that they manifest. Okay. Like the blind spirit or the unclean spirit or the lying spirit. So all of that is, there is a reference there, which you can look at at the end of the appendix. I will not be going through, through that today or the next week. Okay. But certain references that scripture makes about when we, when we look about, you know, emotional issues, emotional problems, we see that scripture talks about the spirit of heaviness in Isaiah 61 3. We, in, in Luke 8, 26 to 39, you look through that, we see that, that the insanity that is spoken about is the case of the demonic, demonic, which that cause, that is caused by evil spirits and the minute the evil spirits are out, they, they do come back to, to normalcy. The evil spirits who are cast out by the man, you know, came back to his right mind. That's again in Luke 8 35. We see also epilepsy having that causes self harm that is again, has been related to that of an evil spirit, or again, the evil spirit that was cast out of the boy. So that was made whole. So we see in scripture, there are references that is made that mental health concerns or, or things to do with mental health issues do have its root in, in the, in, in the demonic. Yes, Christopher. Yes, you can, you can bring up your questions. Yes, I, I, this is actually a connection with the emotional, as well as emotional problems, as well as, you know, inner wholeness. This is just a question with regards to deliverance, whether that should be a common practice or being done for, you know, people in, in ministry, not that I want to, you know, pinpoint or, you know, target a certain state, just the ministry people, but because they're taking, taking up, you know, leadership positions, whether delivery should, should happen. And the reason why I asked is that with, with, you know, cases of people in ministry who have, who have, you know, got fallen short of, you know, what, what you should be doing or, you know, not being really quite slight. And perhaps maybe having inherent, you know, issues, either emotional issues or even a question by, by, by, by even spirits, whether that should be done. And I mean, recently, I've been, you know, going through a few books of, of the evangelist directorates who did a lot of deliverances. And he also did a lot of deliverances for people in ministry. And sometimes this put the people not even aware that they had certain, certain, certain blind spots, certain areas that they were being attacked, you know, by evil spirits. And only to deliver, deliverance, but the, you know, that, that even spirit actually get expelled out. So just wanted to understand your view on this. Sorry, so I'm just trying to get your question. Did you mean deliverance to ministers? Yes, sir, to people in ministry here, people who have leadership positions in, in churches. So you're saying, should it be done? Shouldn't it be done? I'm trying to get a question. Should it be done? Okay. All right. So I would say, you know, even a minister in leadership is someone who needs to have, to be in a place of emotional wholeness. And all the practices that we spoke about in this course, not just applies to those, you know, to, to the flock, but also applies to the shepherd as well. So any opening, any door that is being opened, even in the life of a minister, someone who's, who's ministering to others is something that needs to be checked. So yes, deliverance, not just for anyone. I mean, I wouldn't see a distinction between those who are, who are in ministry and those who are outside. In fact, those who are in ministry are called, are made even more responsible for the way that they conduct to themselves, as it says in Timothy, you know, you are called for greater accountability, even as you are in place of ministry. So should we also, those in ministry should come to places of healing and deliverance? Absolutely. Absolutely. Whereas human as those with us, I mean, those we are, you know, one may be leading. So yes, absolutely. It is a practice. All that we did learn about today continues to be a practice for a believer. We are first believers. And then we are called to be ministers. So yes, I believe that it is something that needs to be done. So does, does that mean it needs to be done in, you know, great celebration or pomp of shore in front? No, it's something that can be done at any point, you know, one, and that's why in leadership, you also tend to be accountable to one another, where, you know, in a team, you work together, engage life with one another, so that you're also able to bring about challenges you may be facing, or maybe certain things that you're blind to, that maybe someone else is able to see. So that is, that is absolutely important for even a minister. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Yes, Abinas. Yeah. Thank you so much, ma'am. So my question is ma'am, like, as we have learned that believer cannot be possessed, demon possessed, but it can be oppressed. But my question is, like, what if a believer, he's doing some continual sin, and he's not even repenting. So is there any possibility that he can be fully demon possessed? That's my question, ma'am. Okay. So it's important whether a believer has walked out of the faith, you know, has disregarded the faith and completely given up his salvation, and does not stand in, okay, one is repentance is of course, you know, someone who's a believer, yes, continues to repent, repent. But a believer who's walked out of the faith also does not feel the need of a savior and has gone away from the faith. Yeah. And I think scripture talks about that person, you know, that, then yes, there is a possibility of position and not just oppression when you've walked out of the faith and when you've renounced Jesus or would do not think that he is, he's someone who can bring you back into faith and salvation, then yes, you have opened yourself up to the demonic. Yeah, so that is possible. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much, ma'am. Yeah. Okay. So a couple more of questions. One is, is it all right for a believer to take medication that is prescribed by a psychiatrist? Okay, so as we say, I think the first and foremost thing that I'd like to put in is personally, I encourage people if they do have, if they do have psychiatric conditions to meet with the psychiatrist to get an evaluation done and follow the advice. So I personally do encourage people to do that. So yes, it is okay to take medications while that is being prescribed. Now, we need to also understand that people are at different levels of faith. There may be some who completely walk in faith and do not seek medical help. There may be those who do seek medical help for a certain while, maybe for the intensity of those symptoms to come down and then they walk by in faith, or there may be some who may require medical help through their lives and take it on and continue to believe in faith for their complete healing. Okay. And I have seen people in all these phases of life where some who have decided that they will take medication, but yet continue to believe in faith. There have been times that they have gone off medicines themselves. That's something I personally do not encourage, but I leave it to their personal faith. I leave it to their personal calling and what they are persuaded in their mind to do as dependent on their faith and walk along with them in holding the word of God and praying with them and encouraging them in also being able to, at a point of time, if there is a relapse that continues to be very dysfunctional, again encouraging them to get back into medication. So I personally think it is left up to the individual as to what approach that they would like to take because they need to be persuaded on how to take on or how they dictate their treatment or they're going forward with that specific condition. Do we advise someone to stop taking medications? No. What we do is we will ensure that we continue to get them to be compliant with what has been advised, yet at the same time to grow in their faith, grow in their trust and belief and in their expectancy that they will be healed. We have seen people who, in fact, we actually have a testimony of a person with depression who had been taking it for years and then decided that I think at one service she felt a supernatural touch of God over her and she knew that her healing was done and so then she got off medication. Anyway, so whatever we do encourage that people take whatever treatment that's been encouraged or that's been prescribed and at the same time to be able to grow in their faith. So it all matters as to how one would like to take on their treatment and if people do choose to get off medication, we encourage them to continue to go meet with their psychiatrist or with their medical professionals so that there is also a corroboratory pick or a go ahead saying that it's fine that they are off medication. So then it helps a lot more. Should people go to a therapist? Is it all right for a believer to go to a psychologist or a therapist for counseling? I would say yes because I'm one myself and I think what I think and again and even as I'm saying this, I also recommend that people also check on the therapist or the psychologist or the counselor that they are going to to check what their orientation is, what their approach of counseling and therapy and help is because there can be psychologists or counselors who may guide you or instruct you in ways that may not be aligned to the word of God. It's important to be able to understand that and decipher that. Yes, there is a lot of learning and a lot of knowledge that psychologists, counselors do have and they do extend a lot of help. However, we need to use the wisdom and the discernment to take only that which is in alignment with God and his instructions and not that which may be totally away from that. So I can give you an example. I had a person come to me, she had lost her husband, you know, I think a couple of years, two, three years before she had come to me and one of the things that she wanted me and she was actually looking for therapists but I don't know how she thought I did what she wanted. Anyway, she came to me and she wanted to know if I would be able to speak to the dead spirit and bring to her the dead spirit so that she could commune with them. I probably think because, you know, she must have googled and found out that I had a spiritual background and that's how she reached out to me. And so, you know, so you've got to be careful about who you go to, where you go to and what their orientation and approach is. So it is perfectly okay to go to a psychologist or to a therapist but to understand what you're looking for. So having clarity that there are certain principles and things that you stand up for and usually a good counselor would be able to come to a place of helping to understand what are your different belief systems and not just your physical and emotional and mental intellectual health but where you stand spiritually and it is okay to ask the spiritual orientation of the person who you are seeking help from because I know counselors and therapists who do suggest different kinds of therapeutic interventions that may not, that do not fit into our belief systems. So, you know, alternative medication, sorry, techniques are probably like yoga and to that effect is something that we do not prescribe to. And so being careful about what those instructions are and understanding what their orientation and approach is to counseling. So a counselor who's able to lead you or to guide you into addressing your need according to your belief system is someone, maybe is someone that you will have to discern to find out. Okay, a couple of other questions about, you know, there are different sources of therapy like hypnosis that is used. Now hypnosis is a process where a lot of the subconscious is being let out. You give the permission to somebody, to another person to control your mind so that the subconscious part of you is being released. We do not approve of this. Okay. And what we do feel also is that some of this, some of these kind of therapies, one being hypnosis and other being yoga all borders on to a place of witchcraft and becomes, you know, becomes an entrance for the evil one to enter in. So this is anything that brings about a technique where someone, something or somebody else is in control of your mind is not what is prescribed to because the Lord is the one who gives us our mind and he even gives us the freedom or the free will to be able to make our own choices. And so when God has given us that freedom, we are careful that you do not permit another one, somebody else to take over that and play around with it and get whatever they require. So whatever techniques that one uses, I think it is important that you go back and have a good search of one, the approach, and also what kind of approach is it that they use now? There are so many, so many new budding ones that are there that can be, that we need to question, that we really need to question in the light of God's word before we ensure and we take on that kind of help. Okay. Yes, I think I'll open this out to questions. We have maybe another 10 to 15 minutes. We can open it out for questions if y'all may have any. Astrid, can I? Yes, Sri Kumar, go ahead. Thank you, Astrid. Astrid, I just want to know, if I want to study this subject in a more more precise way, so what approach I should take and how can I go further? I just want to move that. I need your- With subject, Sri Kumar, counseling, is it? Yes, master. Thank you. Counseling? Yes, counseling. Okay, all right. So I would recommend that there are, so right now at Chrysalis, we only have a very basic course. We don't have a more advanced course. But then I can recommend that are one or two Christian centers that do offer these courses with a biblical perspective. One of them is in Hyderabad. It's called person-to-person counseling. And the other one is in Delhi. It's called BCTI. So if you just Google, you will get the details. Person-to-person counseling in Hyderabad, person-to-person, that's what it's called, P2P. It's called P2P. And BCTI in Delhi, they have different modules of Christian counseling that you could do. If you are in Bangalore, Sri Kumar, are you in Bangalore? Yes, yes, yes. Okay. So if you are in Bangalore, there are courses in SABC, South Asian Bible College. Also that they have a bridged courses on counseling. It's a nine month, 10 month course that you can take where there is also field work, there is, you also do get to meet counseling. So it's an institute that you can do. So that's again, another approach that you can take, Sri Kumar. Thank you. Okay, okay. Okay. Do we have any other questions? Ma'am, I have one. Yes, Avmi. Ma'am, sleeping disorder, like, what exactly can we understand out of that? Like, if you know somebody who is sleeping well, but never feels like they have slept well. And it is a daily issue. Like for years, they have been suffering with this order. You have observed that, but that person is sleeping, snoring, having a good sleep till late in the morning. But when they wake up, they feel they haven't slept at all. And they are very restless about the sleeping disorder. So an added issue, particularly what has been observed is when we sit for prayer, they literally snore in the prayer. But when they are watching television or they are watching something else, they're wide awake, they're enjoying it all. But exactly as you start the prayer, they feel sleepy and they are very, very, I mean, literally they sleep in the prayer. And then they have this sleeping problem. And in the church, they would sleep. But for all the other daily soaps or cereals and everything, they're watching, they are wide awake, they are alert. So ma'am, how do we understand what exactly is happening in this case? Okay, so in the little knowledge that I know, so one is sleep has a lot to do with general even body functioning, physical functioning. If to feel arrested, you need to have your other parameters okay, that is you need good enough physical activity, you need good exercise, you need a good nutrition, and engage yourself meaningfully through the day for you to be able to really have a good time to sleep well. Okay, so that's one in the physical aspect. Also, for those who sleep becomes an issue when you don't have a good pattern of good duration of sleep. That is a recommended pattern of normal sleep is seven to eight hours for an adult. Okay, and when that doesn't happen in its time, sleep kind of gets accumulated over time. And that's when there is lack of concentration, inability to really focus on certain things, especially things that may not, that seems more mundane. That's when they're not able to function. So these are all physical aspects of it. There is also an emotional aspect of issues with sleep is anxiety, intense anxiety can cause disturbance in sleep. Maybe the person feels, I mean, the bystanders notice that the person has slept well, you know, like you said, snoring and all of that. But there is in the morning when they wake up, there's a sense of high fatigue, sense that they have not slept. All of that has an indication towards a mind that is extremely anxious. So they may be going to sleep with a lot of worried and anxious thoughts. And so the entire night is wrought in that anxiety, that they don't feel a restful amount of sleep. And that's why you'd also see that when their minds are occupied with something interesting or something that is capturing, they are able to keep away from thinking about it. But when the mind is idle, or it is focused on something that is maybe a routine, then you may find that they are unable to keep attention. So one of the biggest things with sleep issues is going back to see if there is any form of an anxiety worry that seems to be building up because that it relates very often with mental health issues and sleep are very, very closely related. And that's something that you need to look into. Now, the fact that there is anxiety could be because of something else. It can be because of, let's say, some kind of health issue or some kind of a maybe like a financial concern or a relational issue. So then the mind is so occupied with that that it doesn't come to a place of rest that they do, that they feel that they have rested throughout. So these are, in my understanding, some of the normal natural causes that causes issues with sleep also. Even brain functions, if there isn't enough of oxygen, so if a person doesn't breathe well, doesn't have exercise, there is no expansion of the lungs, that also affects sleep. That's why physical activity, good diet, keeping yourself one occupied and having a relaxed mind really helps in a good night's rest and a good night's sleep. So these are some things that I think I know about. The case that I'm sharing with you, ma'am, in this case, whatever you mentioned has been imperfect. Is it an elderly person, Avani? Yes. But elderly means now when that person is elderly, but last many, many years, like more than two decades when even they were young, they had the same kind of an issue. I mean, yes, one thing that I understood, you said even exercising, eating properly, everything is perfect, like, but asthmatic. So can that be the reason? Could be. That can be. If you do see, you know, people with sleep apnea, sleep apnea is those who are unable to, you know, wake up in the middle of the night, not because of issues with breathing, either there is an issue with their nasal septum, or, you know, their tongues are too thick that it goes back and, you know, it kind of chokes the breathing. So a lack of oxygen, a good supply of oxygen creates this fact of not really sleeping well. And that's why you have those sleep machines that help people in the restoration of that because of the oxygen content that's, that's gets affected. So that could be an issue. So ma'am, how can we help them? That is my main question. I think they should probably have a better, so there are sleep doctors that actually help with conditions like this. So maybe a consultation with a sleep doctor to really find out what's the cause of this unrested sleep is something you may need to look at because it becomes a pattern over years. In many years, it becomes a pattern. And they're not able to, and it becomes very psychological also. I can't sleep. I can't sleep. I can't sleep. Or, you know, I won't sleep. I won't sleep. And that becomes, that's what I said, you know, that increases the anxiety and the agitation. Thank you ma'am. Thank you. Yes, Christopher. Yes, I just had a question on one of those areas where, you know, spirits have kind of been spirits. So in the case of point number 16, spirit of bondage, so there's a reference to Romans 815, which initially I wanted an explanation of that. But I think that depending on the version of it, and KGB I think has a better explanation of that. But I just want to understand from the Bible point of view, is there any, are there any ideas where there is a kind of a solution to that and how, you know, how is that, how are those spirits of bondage broken? So the spirit of bondage, I'm just looking up the verse. Okay, so the verse, I'll just read that. It says, the spirit you receive does not make you slave so that you live in fear again rather the spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. So what it talks about here is more the bondage to sin, the slavery in sin, so that in a spirit you receive does not make you slaves to sin, but it adopts, it brings about an adoption to sonship and by that we cry our father. So whenever you're not in the spirit, capital S, capital spirit, you continue to, when you don't walk in the spirit, you walk in the flesh and that makes you a slave to sin, which makes you in bondage to sin and that's the reference that's made here. So the spirit of bondage through all that we picked up and what we learned is to be able to renounce whatever fleshly, last fleshly desires, anything that keeps us under the yoke of sin and coming in freedom knowing what the cross of Jesus, what the cross of Christ has done for us, walking in the spirit and the word of God. So every kind of bondage, whether it be that of sin or that in anything else, follows the same principles that we learned in the chapters above. Okay, I think we'll close for today. Next week, we will be having our last class and we'll just maybe spend, we probably will just spend maybe one hour in class and I was thinking of maybe we could spend some time just praying over the call so and we'll see how that goes because I think the next class will just probably take me maybe an hour to finish and the next hour we could spend or if we could just spend maybe an extended period of maybe one hour and 15 minutes and then we could close for the day. So next hour will be our last hour so please do come in and just come coming together to pray and for one another. I think it was it was a really powerful time even as Shri Kumar prayed we see you know I just I just saw that Rupa's testimony of how her sugars has come down to 174 and praise God, praise God for that. So you know there is so much of power and so let's come come together maybe to pray also next week so don't miss next class as it's going to be our last as well. Okay, let's just close with the word of prayer Abinas, can I request you to please close with the word of prayer if you're there Abinas. Yeah, sure ma'am, thank you. Go ahead. So let's pray. Our gracious Heavenly Father we thank you for this time. We commit again this time to your mighty hand Jesus. Thank you Father God for all your faithfulness Lord Jesus. Thank you Father God for your guidance. Thank you Father God for this fellowship Father God that you have provided in this platform Lord Jesus. Thank you for the deep inside Father God that you are help us to understand the things Father God about ourselves about inner holiness about our well-being Jesus. Jesus we pray that Lord Jesus those who are here Father God we commit to you Lord Jesus as we are joining this Christian journey Lord Jesus we pray that Lord Jesus help us to be whole from the inside out Lord Jesus help us to be pure Lord Jesus for you Father God and as we are Lord Jesus going with this Lord Jesus we pray that Lord Jesus let your spirit will move Father God let your spirit will guide us lead us and direct us Father God as you wants us to be Lord Jesus we pray and commit to you Father God and we pray for the ma'am Lord Jesus as he as he is teaching Lord Jesus give her more revelation more wisdom and more knowledge Lord Jesus so that she will go with a new level Father God she will cover with a new wine skin Jesus Lord thank you Lord we pray for all the fellow Lord Jesus those who are here Lord Jesus we commit ourselves Lord thank you Jesus we bless you Lord Jesus we praise you we worship you Lord Jesus we glorify your name Lord and we ask to pray in Jesus mighty name amen thank you ma'am God bless you thank you amen thank you Abinas thank you everybody wish thank you we shall meet next week thank you ma'am thank you