 So welcome as ever to everybody on Tuesday morning, at least in California. For those of you who were or are still up to date with some of the emails that were going around, one of the things that people wanted to talk today was GPS options. So a couple of us step forward with some great suggestions for either show and tell or conversation topics and I think it makes sense to put the first two volunteers together up front. So Kyle, I can see you're online. Did you wanna let us know what was worth describing or discussing? And then after that, we can move into Brendan. Unless of course Kyle, you're not quite ready in which case I think Brendan probably is. Yeah, I think Brendan should helmet. I just really had the idea that GPS might be something that would be a really useful tool for our work. Great, Brendan, you said you had some slides. Are they ready to show you? Sure, let me, I actually don't have slides. I just kind of wanted to talk through how we at the Panini have been using location and then talk about some of the other applications that I've seen in the marketplace. I've been on the advisory board for Pick Pocket Labs, which has a fascinating application using geofence, content aggregation for event management and this enables some really interesting use cases both for news and shared video and reporting. Lots of event management around the World Cup a few years ago and we'll talk more about that. I can go into what that technology looks like. For a few years now, a couple of years now, I've been following foam.spaces and foam has got a really novel application where they're using, they're using stations other than that are not GPS to track and deliver location services. And whenever we think about events and ticketing, as I've spent quite a bit of time thinking about those things for Panini's mobile apps, having a date stamp, a public date stamp of when you were at a location is actually really important and it's important whether you're running, operating drones that are snapping pictures of pipelines and observing construction sites or monitoring environmental other environments. But you also, when you get that location, at least in the context of blockchain technology, that location, that unforgeable location becomes really, really important to connect with the assets. Whatever those assets are, if they're graphic assets, whether it's a attendance or proof that you attended somewhere or that the actual media was captured somewhere, having a location that's not spoofable that you can actually tie to a blockchain really enhances the value and integrity of whatever it is you're doing. So there's lots of applications of that. Then finally, there's the proof of attendance protocol. I have not studied that one. I'll look at that when they came out and it looks like the projects made some interesting headway in delivering badges and they have their own mobile app. But I can easily see where different badging and how we can create and enhance events and the experiences with real-life experiences, real-life events and attendance with that type of technology and offering NFTs in connection with events. So anyway, that's just kind of a rough overview of the things that I wanted to talk about. If we, unfortunately, I don't have what I need to display the Panini Blitz app, but Panini has several, we have three different digital trading card mobile apps. They're mobile-free-to-play apps. You collect free coins by attending and or by opening the app and participating. And inside these apps, you can open packs of cards. These are digital-only cards. They're not on the blockchain at this time. They're not NFTs at this time. However, the platform was engineered four years ago to support that with atomic digital assets. So we like how we're positioned in that space. But these digital collectibles, you can collect the cards and what we've done is we've created an augmented reality environment, very much like Pokemon Go where, and we call it Card Hunter. And so there's several mini games within these mobile apps. And in these mini games, we've generated collectible card content, trading card content. These are officially licensed with the NFL, the NBA and FIFA. And so you can find the cards, you can locate them and you can orient towards them, walk to them and collect them. Of course, we have not implemented, but we could in the context of geofences. If we use geofences say at an event like a stadium, for example, and people that are in attendance at the stadium would have exclusive access to content and collectible content that's only found in the stadium. And we really like that use case. It creates, it makes your presence at a stadium even more valuable. Of course, everyone's in the sports and entertainment industry is looking to enhance value in that sort of way. So this is how we're thinking about it. This is the kind of thing that we're doing. Let's see, I can share my screen. Let's see, here with me. Okay. So what we're looking at now is the Google Play Store where we've got NFL Blitz. And unfortunately, like I said, I can't show it to you, but you can get an idea of how the cards, this is a, you see a picture. I'm sorry if that's small, but there's, basically we're opening packs. It simulates the pack opening process and users can use this in different ways. And of course we've got different mini games that have like a fantasy component, a player versus player component. Now those are interesting in their own right, but location services that are offered, again can be connected to the app and offered and create an interesting use case where we're adding value to different locations. Of course, all these assets we'd like to see as NFTs and on the blockchain. Moving on to Pick Pocket Labs. You can see there, they've got an app in both of the stores. It's, they've really gone after a social media opportunity, but they've got some apps where all of your, the content can be aggregated. So imagine if you will, you can set up a geofence along a parade route and people that are in the parade can take pictures and they can be aggregated using different content aggregation techniques that have emerged over the last few years. You can curate and deliver fantastic video montages. You can actually use facial recognition and extract really, these video montages and feature particular people, perhaps the users of the apps. Again, I'm just kind of covering the space. We'll tie it back into the larger world of this city whereas when we think about both the location and when that's really, really important, we want that secured on a blockchain and the content that can be offered and connected and created as NFTs conveys a lot of value. And so the intersection of location, whether we think of it as a point or as a boundary on a map, there's also, we have geospaces which are volumetric and that can matter in a lot of different ways depending on what floor you're on. A lot of people don't realize that the current accuracy of your mobile phone with the next generation of phones is within 18 inches, which is astonishing. I mean, that is a really high level of resolution and creates a lot of possibilities. And just kind of an aside, but on the email thread that came up, there was a talk about privacy and I'm over here talking about facial recognition and content curation and other things. And so I just want everyone to know that I'm all about privacy. And it seems to me that at least in the web 2.0 world, privacy was one of the first casualties in commercializing that stack of technologies. And what we have is an opportunity to change that and devolve power back to users and individual and how they control the information. I'm extremely present and focused to that and all the apps that we're creating and how we imagine the standards and the future we want to create here. So I would invite everyone here to think about it and make that an important part of your strategy because that's something that we as a people have I think have to stand for. I mean, we've got to stand strong for it or we're going to end up with a lot of compromises and a lot of standards that lead us away from this opportunity to control our privacy in a new and really important way. So I know it's a long topic, but I really wanted to put that out there. It's something that's really important to me. Let's see. So there's another technology here with Pick Pocket that goes into ghosting that requires location, location services. So imagine you've got a photo that was taken in a particular location that photo can live in that location, so to speak. And services can be emerged that actually allow the photo to be overlaid and viewed. You could go to a particular destination and you could see all the other photos. You could see the selfies. People could curate lists of the people who have been there with you. There's obviously, again, lots of possibilities for montages and other ways to curate and deliver a unique experience. Again, all enabled using location, location services and then the power of NFTs. So let's see. I'll stop there. We can talk about the phone network. And again, we've got several different things happening with the phone network and I don't wanna cover it all, but the point is that there are the centralized platforms and services that are emerging that people creating experiences and trying to manage collectability and other things connected with this Web 3.0 stack can use and connect into to engineer some really novel experiences. Things that haven't emerged yet are gonna be really, really exciting. I've been talking about the things that we've seen, but I think especially in the next few years because of all the converged technology, there's some really exciting experiences that can be engineered using NFTs and the spatial and location, location data. And then we mentioned, hope, this is just one example. I consider this a really narrow implementation, but basically you're creating a badge and NFT and it is connected to spatial data so that you can prove that you have attended somewhere. And when we think about the different ticketing platforms that people are engineering today, those are really, really exciting. I think they create a whole new dimension to for the entertainment industry. Certainly I'm operating primarily in the sports industry. And we're looking at it very closely on again, how we deliver content, how we can create loyalty. And we think about loyalty in a lot of different ways, but when you've got products like Paninis, there's collectibles, those are definitely, goods where other people, other industries that are adjacent to ours, people have only so much discretionary time and discretionary funds to allocate to their interests and collectibles are one of those. And to the extent that we can create really compelling experiences and build off of all of the licenses and the value that the rest of the industry creates through their properties, whether it's a sports or other entertainment enterprise, we want to create really compelling experiences that are engaging because the dollars we're capturing commercially can go other places, right? People can, they don't have to buy trading cards, for example, they don't have to buy NFTs. They can buy experiences at a restaurant, they can buy other physical goods like memorabilia and helmets and jerseys and those sorts of things. And the more dollars that they're spending elsewhere, the less dollars they're spending with us. And I know this is obvious, but when we think about the licenses that we acquire creating that engagement and that connection with collectors is key because they are motivated, they're passionate about the subject. We've got content that connects them to their subjects of interest, whether it's a player or a team, whether it's a stadium, wherever they are, we have an opportunity at the intersection of these technologies to create really compelling and engaging experiences for them to actually consume our content. I mean, Panini is a content engine. We're creating content, we create hundreds of thousands of unique designs with these licensed properties. And if we look at the entertainment industry as a content industry, at least abstracted like that, their objectives are very much in line with ours. And what's also exciting is the entertainment industry as well as the gaming industry, both like the collectibles industry we're in, they're engaging users for long spans of time. I mean, hours, with the primary asset, again, in the license category, whether it's the movie that you've watched three times or four times, you've got hours in it. It's a game and you spent 40 hours with it. You're really connected to that in a way that under other industries and other consumer services and products, just they don't have that level of engagement. So we're operating in a world that's a pretty big, what's a huge design space for NFTs and location services. And I'll stop there. I don't know that I have a lot more to add than that. And I'm happy to take any questions. Yeah, do we have any questions? I've got an interesting question. So Apple has recently come out with air tags. Has anybody been familiar with that? When you think about what it is, it's similar to a tile, right? But it's actually a little bit different. And when you think about the whole aspect of providing an identity to a thing, this is exactly what Apple is doing, but it is allowing the consumer to provide an identity, a digital twin, to anything that it wants to by putting the air tag near the object or attached somehow to the object. And it would seem such a simple novel thing, but actually they're using UWB technology. And I'm not sure if anybody has advanced knowledge of UWB, but it's quite an interesting protocol. It has the ability to replace Bluetooth, NFC, possibly even Wi-Fi in some aspects. But the real key is it gives an identity to something that traditionally didn't have an identity to you, but you create your own hub and you create your own identity. And my goodness, that seems to be the way to eventually add it to the blockchain. Does anybody understand what I'm talking about here? Yeah, and I was gonna add, I was on a Twitter Spaces last night with some folks, some analysts and Robert Scoble, I don't know what Scoble is, but talking about what Apple's doing with that, Apple and Google are basically creating like a 3D model of space and assigning an address, right? So now when you've clicked that tile in space, that address has a three-dimensional location in the big database that they're building of everything, right? It kind of like the next level beyond... It basically makes the iPhone, quite it basically makes the owner of the iPhone, the actual hub of the network. But nevertheless, all those identities and IDs would be very difficult to track, I mean, very difficult to manage unless you used the blockchain. So I see that this is another very cool and interesting technology that has kind of had the sleeper moment and come in. And people don't realize the significance of what Apple did. I think it's quite significant. And I guess maybe I think in the future, UWB technology could quite honestly be used for COVID-19 contact tracing actually, to be honest. Anyway, that's off topic, that's off topic, but I just wanted to get the engines flowing, the mines generating, because you guys, the engineers, I'm just the guy with the vision. Vipin, you had your hand up. Yes. Can you hear me? So a couple of things. You said, Brendan, that you were interested in privacy as well. So I was wondering what exactly the solutions are because we have to think about this before we put anything out there. Because if you do not, then you're going to get people a lot of pushback, you're going to get in front of all sorts of problems. So that's, I mean, everybody pays it lip service. It's very difficult to do this. As you know, differential privacy is a very difficult concept. And that is only for aggregations, but if it is not aggregations, then there has to be some other way of dealing with it. I don't know how air tags handles that, but that's, all of these things that expose our location, actually... That was relying on their stance on trust and privacy, right? But there's already people writing that they are only, basically that it is not really private because you've got to expose it to attack. Otherwise you'll never find where, what the weaknesses in the system are. The other thing is, we already carry with us this location services, meaning the phones are like electronic, ankylid bracelets, you are actually wearing one. And it tracks, it connects to the local cell tower every so many few minutes and it stores all that data. So I think the point is that the cell phone companies do not actually need this data because they only need it momentarily. When you, obviously you have to know where the phone is in order to route a call or a signal to it, but the frictionless nature of storing all this data and the low cost has made it such that they are storing everything. In fact, you can find out where you were in 19, like 2005 when you got your iPhone. From that point on, every 15 minutes it stores your data. So these kinds of things, it's very difficult to get around it unless you have some kind of regulation and people get. I don't know about that, Vipin. I think we have with public key cryptography and the decentralized blockchain technologies, we have the ability to preserve a lot of privacy that's been lost. And it starts with the DID, it starts with an identity and there's a lot of really important work being done in that area. Yeah, I know. I'm actually the chair of the Identity Working Group. And Aries and Indy were launched from our working group, but the main thing is that they never store the any data on the blockchain. Gentlemen, I hope I don't want to interrupt, but it's really important to distinguish what we're really talking about here. When you're operating in the ISM band, which is Bluetooth and Wi-Fi, NFC has its own encryption, but how safe is the NFC encryption? I don't know if it's been spoofed already, but we're talking about UWB. I've done some research. This is very, very, the security on UWB is second to none. So I think Apple's got something here by using UWB and making the phone the internet of things hub for the user. And all I'm trying to say is, because Apple has already figured this out, we're talking esoteric things, Apple has figured this out. All I'm trying to say is now the next thing is, I don't want to just say Apple has figured it out. So, don't worry about it. Don't worry or worry about it. That is not an attitude that I would take as a scientist. I would say, okay, let us have the privacy guys attack it. Let us have an honest conversation about it. I'm not going to give all the props to somebody who says, oh, I've taken care of this. You don't have to care. That's not how we work here. I get your point. I get your point. So all I'm saying is I'm not shooting any of this stuff down. I'm just saying that we have to keep that in mind and how do we talk about it? And privacy first, I know that Nathan said, privacy first is a tough problem, but we have to really be addressing that as part of our solution. I'm not saying don't look at any solutions because it's all going to, you know, if you appear in public, you're on some camera somewhere. And that would be Shanghai China. Yeah. No, not in England, in the UK too. I mean, if you wear, you know, you probably got to wear a hijab and go around. I mean, I don't know. I mean, Let's not all jump off the cliff with Apple just because Apple is leading the heap off the cliff. I get your point. I'm not saying either way. I'm just saying let us look at this honestly and let us get material on it. Let us look, research it and then come up with some stuff along with, you know, all these stuff that we are excited about UWB and the, you know, Voxel based geo hashing. So I can say at Panini, we've made some really specific decisions around privacy. When we implemented our hyperledger sawtooth instance, you know, we had the ability to auto generate or create account names. For users or to use their account name in the clear, we chose not to. We chose to use public keys and that way the user could maintain their privacy if they wanted. You know, one thing to think about when we're talking about NFTs, whether they're music or graphic collectibles like Panini makes, whatever the NFT is, they are their instruments. And, you know, when you've got a six figure portfolio of collectibles or music, that's something you don't necessarily want everyone in the world to be able to know about you. And so we thought through that when we thought, yeah, we need to protect the users because we know that we're gonna have users that have really large portfolios of these collectibles. Now, unfortunately, the payment gateway process and platforms kind of broke a rather idealistic approach and until we can implement a different payment gateway that doesn't use conventional public payment rails, we're not whole. We haven't fully defended the consumers' privacy, but we certainly made it an important part of how we evaluate and implement our product and our service. And I guess I would just invite everyone else to think along those lines. I mean, at every point in your product development process as your engineering solutions, you know, this is one that historically has been dropped and we can't drop it. We've got to be motivated and connected to it. So even what we've done is it's imperfect because of how we had to get to market, but it does not have to stay that way. The platforms and the technology, the payment gateways, they're all emerging that are gonna let us protect users' identity and let them be in charge of whether they want to. So on our platform, a user can actually, they can give themselves an alias. Like if they want to be Cooper or Coop out on the public platform and in the galleries that we manage for people, they can do that. That's a choice, but it's their choice. It's not a choice we made for them. I'll stop there. I'm interested as well to hear more along the veins of our conversation that we started with on location services and in geospaces. One of the interesting things that we're encountering from a copyright standpoint, historically, when you were licensing from Disney or from the NFL or the NBA or whoever the large global licensor was, those are historically for physical products, those have been geographically constrained. So you would get, you would license and get license that were restricted to the U.S. market or the U.S. market with only big box retail stores. And you could add on to the list, but the NFTs and what we're creating with this blockchain, it's not constrained in the same way. And so it's altering the nature of licensing and how do we capture that? And what I see as a possibility, the infrastructure isn't there yet or maybe it is with the phone where we could actually constrain and license and restrict distribution by geography using some of these location services. And if I'm a big media entertainment conglomerate, I think that sounds pretty good and for a lot of different kinds of digital only products because some distribution channels and distributors are gonna be a lot more qualified to operate in South America than someone else. And historically, if you wanted global rights, you were gonna pay a real premium for that. And in the current embodiment of NFTs in particular, that's really not, it's not possible within the constraints of the NFTs standards, but it's certainly emerging. I'd be curious to hear anyone's take on that, but if I'm a media entertainment conglomerate, that's something that I'm advocating for in the standards that are emerging around NFT. It's something that I would want to study really hard. So if I see in NFT online, and I can actually look at it, then I can take my phone and actually take a snapshot of it. I now own a legitimate copy of the NFT, which is really, could be a photo, could be a baseball card or something. But now I have a complete digital twin, which I freely was able, I guess what I'm saying is if you can see, view, hear something, the end user can somehow reproduce it. So I wonder about that. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, Carl, I mean, that's been a, that's a well-trod attack against the NFT and its value in controlling. NFT does not prevent you from copying anything. I mean, you know. Hello, hello, sorry, I paused out for a minute. Can you hear me? Yeah, now we can hear you. Okay, so yeah, Carl, that's a well-known attack. So yes, virtual files have very little standing in law, except that which it falls under contract law, which is normally the terms and conditions or the end user agreement that you signed when you consume virtual property. That notwithstanding, you know, the market is comfortable with a virtual property being a non-rivalrous good that is to say, as you say, it could be perfectly and cheaply or almost freely duplicated. And what the market is saying is so what? That something at the intersection of the virtual property, okay? And it's connection to a substrate, in this case, a blockchain, okay? That that is a unique thing. That is a unique thing that you own. And it's not the same thing as the photo on your phone because you don't have any control or connection out on the layer or the substrate where the artist or the creator chose to put it. And so, you know, you can go to the Lube and you can take a picture of the Mona Lisa. Do you own it? No, it's sitting on a, it's sitting on some substrate that's been around for a few hundred years. Hey, I've actually done that. So, but I mean, I mean, I understand the argument. And, you know, what we're, what's going to happen is we as a society, I mean, the law is behind where people's attitudes are about virtual property. People want to own virtual property. They want it to operate like physical property. They want control over it. They want to be able to loan it to people. They want liens against it. They want to, there's all these things that aren't conferred under most law to digital goods. And yet people are embracing that because that's how they think about it, especially digital natives, okay? Digital natives, they don't need to be convinced that an NFT is valuable. They accept that, yes, you can get a photo of it or yes, I can right click it and copy the file itself, but so what? I've got the version that matters that the creator, the licensor, the licensee actually minted on this public blockchain, which is where, you know, they say this is original. This is it. They're willing to accept that. So I think the law is gonna catch up with that. The technical implementations are rapidly evolving to confer a lot of those attributes. And again, the blockchain natively, the NFT as are written today natively confer control, but the actual authentication of the user or the creator that doesn't exist. The permanent access to the rights and the rights management, you know, that infrastructure is coming in place so that it's always connected. You know, that's something that Sebastian is on this call as a world leader in. And so I think, you know, we've got all the technical improvements that we can make to construct a really strong digital property. It all exists. It's not widely deployed yet, but it exists. And it's already strong enough for the market to go from a hundred million in NFTs and Q4 of last year and in Q1 of this year, it's about two and a half billion. And we're on pace this month for that to continue. And, you know, we can argue whether it's a bubble or not, but in two years, we're still going to be talking about NFTs. Infrastructure's still going to be rapidly maturing. The standards are going to be maturing and people want virtual property. They just do. Absolutely, absolutely. A couple of things here. One is, you know, there's a pure digital property which is only exists as digital items. Then the other is a digital twin like, you know, NFTs have been also linked to real estate and other items. So there's, that's a different class of NFTs because obviously we have been trading mortgage-backed securities for a long time. And in fact, it is nothing but an NFT that has been packaged up into cash flows that are then tradable as securities. It becomes, it transforms an NFT, a group of NFTs into a FT, fungible token like a bond, you know. So there is a, you know, there is some slate of hand that happens that transforms that physical property into something that can be, that are both, you know, secured by contract law. And in fact, there is contract law today that in, for trade finance, for example, there's contract law that track that is valid. Digital signatures are valid in Delaware, for example. In fact, there's a whole discussion happening about that in trade finance group. But, you know, that is a different, slightly different class of NFTs where there is actual physical representation. There is a cash flow. There is something being produced out of that NFT. The other is the NFT with, you know, like which are purely digital properties. And, you know, so they're slightly different in their underlying. So I think what you're talking about now, here is obviously about the pure digital properties that can be frictionlessly copied and reproduced. And so, you know, it's not even like the Mona Lisa, because again, Mona Lisa is a physical object and you can take a picture of it, but now you're transforming that physical object into a digital object. Obviously they're not the same, but certain things do exist as pure digital objects. So that's- I've got a question because I'm a little confused. When we take the physical object, we take it from the physical world and we, I guess, take a photo and that creates the digital twin. So now we've got a digital twin, but we don't have something that actually can be monetized. And I guess the non-fungible token is also a digital twin that can be monetized. Is that correct? Because I'm not sure. I don't think you can call it a digital twin. The other one is the real digital object and there is no digital, there's no physical object. Right. So kind of elaborating on that theme, Carl, that what we see is, and Vip and thank you for bringing this up because I have been talking about digital-only NFTs, but when you extend them to NFTs to include and point to physical goods, which is pretty straightforward to do technically with any time you create, have strong authentication technology on a physical good. In our case, in trading cards, we can think about diamond dust, we can think about high resolution photography, but we can get unique signatures that can only be destructively removed onto the good. And at that point, we can actually hash that signal to the NFT. And so now we've got a virtual representation of the physical thing. And we got the NFT that's pointing to the physical thing. And that enables all kinds of new business models. And I'm not sure, and I haven't really spent any time thinking about how it would relate to the larger entertainment industry, but for our purposes, we definitely see the possibility of having different custodial arrangements. So if I've got a possession of physical cards, I'm the manufacturer, I can actually sell them without actually incurring shipping costs. And users don't have to actually pay for shipment. They don't have to go to eBay and move things around. They can just transact the NFT that represents the thing. And you're paying maybe some fee for the custodial services, but the thing that you're actually buying is actually in a vault somewhere carefully controlled, managed, and really safe in a way that you probably can't make it safe. And that's an exciting value proposition. We're already seeing some companies standing up. There's some startups that are coming to address that specific need. And it's not just in this collectible category, but it works across the entire supply chain. And so that's powerful. And to me, that's where probably most of the value well, actually, I don't know. I don't know where all the value is gonna be created. There's a lot of value to be created using this technology. And the NFTs pointing to physical goods is certainly a huge part of that. Brandon, so do you think that Panini's cloud storage where you store your assets is a key ingredient to the value that you attach to the trading cards? I mean, if those trading cards were in IPFS, would they gardener the same kind of value? What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, so that's something we're really investigating. So right now we're operating up a private blockchain, the hopper ledger sawtooth instance. And it is, for our purposes, we have control of it. We have backups of it. We have all the digital assets stored using traditional cloud services. And when we start thinking about gateways and the ability to go to public infrastructure, how do you control that? How do you actually manage it? And right now, I don't think it's properly, well, the current implementations are flawed, in my opinion, because IPFS isn't permanent. You don't have people that are services that are fully incentivized to maintain the IPFS connection. We've already seen some companies, startup companies issue digital goods, NFTs that failed. And so the NFT is still on the blockchain. You can open your wallet and you actually have the token, but the metadata, the asset that is pointed to from the blockchain to an IPFS location is lost or is failed in some way. And so you no longer have the thing that you really cared about or the thing that you experienced. So this storage, the notion of storage of virtual goods, there are some interesting implementations at IPFS that actually support it. But one of them is the location of your file, okay? So if we think about, especially using the types of technology, as we're imagining it, and the Sebastian could probably tell us more about this, but when we think about the actual files that you're getting with your NFT, the thing that you experience and you view, you see, you hear, whatever that is, if it's been properly hashed through the blockchain, then you don't have to worry about it. Through the blockchain, then where the actual metadata lives isn't as important as the fact that it's present, that it's available. Because you can always validate with 100% certainty using the hash, using a hashing technology. In Sebastian's case, you've got a feature preserving hash, which confers a lot of value to that hash. But at the point that you've got a hash on the blockchain connected to the NFT, it's all immutable. So if I have the hash, if you, I'm sorry, if I have the file, you have the file, the file sitting out in the cloud somewhere, as long as I know where it is, does it matter exactly where it is? And so today we have implementations to NFTs that point to specific file locations. And frankly, I think that's flawed. I think we either need a file location or a core file location service, so that if I want to take charge of it, like if I own the Mona Lisa, we know where to find it. We know if they've got, they know whether they've got one and they want to put it in the basement. And whatever art I own, I have control of it. And sometimes I give other people custody of it, so they have control of it. And I think that's very sensible. And I think those similar models could and probably should prevail in this digital world. And there's, again, the standards just need to emerge. We have the technologies. Does that answer the question, Muhammad? Yeah, no, I mean, that does. But I think a key element would be to attach an identity to the hash. So the hash can be in the blockchain for sure. And multiple people can have a copy of the actual asset and they can claim that they own it, right? So there has to be a way and there are to attach identity to that hash. Well, that's what the wallet is about. That's why you have an Ethereum wallet that is the part that is the identity piece. Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's definitely. The value of the wallet is the KYC that goes into creating it, right? You can create your own wallet, but you can also involve a third party or other parties in the creation of the wallet. At the same point, that's the identity piece, right? Well, you collect the data of the incident, the change of state of something, right? I'm talking about the IoT world. And then you pass it to create the identity before, it even reaches the cloud before it reaches the blockchain. That's where the consensus can be arrived because you're collecting it at the source of occurrence. So that's, I think I get exactly what you're both saying, but I'm just saying that you need to, if you're going to stop any kind of malicious activities, you've got to do it at the edge at the source. That's what my company does. Anyway, I'm jumping back off. That's governance, right? I mean, you're pushing the gateway to governance to the edge of the network, so you have to make sure that it's all adhered to the standard. And that's why you have a consensus mechanism to make sure that everyone's agreeing to that standards meant adhered to. I have a couple of points that I'd like to make when that's possible. Yeah, so when I go to my gym, I go to locker and I put a quarter in, I put my bag in there and then I get a key. So I can think of that key like a non-fungible token. So as much as we're thinking of non-fungible tokens as art, we can also just view them as just straight up keys, just to hold another form, right? Yeah. And then the other point is the asset we're pointing to, they're all existing assets, but we can also think about potential assets. So for instance, if somebody goes to an event, then they get the right to access all the merch that was part of that music event. So that merch doesn't exist yet, perhaps. That merch could be made to order, but because they have the key, which is the non-fungible token, they can go and they can order that. So we don't have to think about pre-existing stuff. It can be stuff that the person has the ability to make in the future with their NFT. Yeah, no, I think that's a great point. So to summarize and maybe get back to what the SIG wants to do, there seems to be a lot of interesting technologies out there for geotagging and fencing. And there are privacy concerns that are very valid. The question is, do we want to prioritize geotagging in the SIG's agenda right now, or is it something that comes down the road? So I'm thinking purely in terms of an MVP here, for the music assets blockchain or media asset blockchain and NFTs. So I think, yeah, a little bit focusing on that point would be of interest. Considering that it's about two minutes to 10, why don't we actually make that the main point for next time? So that we've discussed loads of really cool ideas. I've had a great insight into some technologies about like ghosting about, which I didn't know that much at all. And we can decide which, if any, we want to include in the short term, and then which we can maybe include in the midterm as things that are doable, but maybe would sort of muddy the waters a little bit right now. One of the things we did, I had mentioned the healthcare working group is when we got organized, we kind of did a survey of the group and asked some questions and did feedback sort of as a group to figure out where to steer things because there's a lot of directions you can go with this problem space. But it is finding a consensus around, what are low hanging fruit problems or problems that we share collectively. And then one of the other things you couple with that too is potentially an industry survey. Like what other technology is out there? Absolutely. Like what we want to do. And then I've also gone and got industry analysts to come and talk to the group. Like I did that around the healthcare blockchain stuff. So, and I know that there's some industry, like I watched the Jeffries did an NFT summit last week, but we, you know, I've got some connections. I'm sure other folks here and do have industry connections where we can have one or two analysts come in and sort of present a layer of the land to help contextualize what we're doing as a group, right? If you have some suggested names, that's always great. Yeah. Any, please, any suggestions? And I'm happy to chat with you, you know, offline or whatever about trying to pull that together. I may even have some, some, or I'm sure Hyperledger has some leftover artifacts over in the healthcare working group that we can dust off and repurpose or something. So. That sounds great. That sounds like me wanna, I've just made a note to myself. So what I'll do is I'll draw up a questionnaire to find out what people think is doable or if they're not able to do it themselves, what they think is just thematically most important. To inform, collect everything, bring it back. Maybe share up some responsibilities or find out what people feel that they're suited to do. And then that'll also help us to filter out which of all these very attractive ideas is the most manageable in the short term. Does that sound reasonable? Yeah, that's exactly what I meant. Fantastic. Thank you very much for wrapping things up in such a wonderful way. Because we're now 22 seconds over time. So that was very well done indeed. Okay, so thanks as ever to Sebastian because he I think is the person with the worst time. Sebastian, there's nobody further east to the new I think at the moment, correct? But not this week. Next week will be a terrible timing. Well, next time it's different. Exactly. Exactly. Then it's in the middle of the night. Yeah. With a tough working week. Okay, so thanks very much to everybody. I'll synthesize all of this, send out a, well, a synthesis or a synopsis of what we talked about and then we'll decide which of these ideas we want to jump into in concrete terms at the next session. Good. Okay, thanks very much for all of your time. Thanks. Okay, bye.