 Good morning and hello. My name is Mark Shklov. I am the host of Think Tech Hawaii's Law Across the Sea program and today we are going across the sea to Shanghai. Shanghai is how I've been told to pronounce it, but Shanghai is how lots of people pronounce it. My guest today is Jack Lee. Jack Lee is a lawyer in Shanghai and he's also has the title of President-Elect of the Inter-Pacific Bar Association. We're going to talk about being a lawyer in Shanghai and the Inter-Pacific Bar Association, but first I want to welcome Jack. Jack, it's good to see you. You're welcome. Good to see you. Nice to meet you. And look, I want to know a little bit about you first. Who is Jack Lee? Where were you born? Where did you grow up? What school did you go to? First, tell me a little bit about Jack Lee. My English name is Jack Lee. My Chinese name is Li Zhixiang. Li Zhuxiang? Yeah. I was born in Shanghai. I'm a typical Shanghai lander. In Shanghai dialect, we call it Sa Henning. Sa Henning. I started in Shanghai. My bachelor's degree was held in East China Law School and my master's degree was held in Fudan University. I practiced Chinese law in the year of 1990. One year later, the Inter-Pacific Bar Association was established. Okay. Now, let me go back. Your whole growing up as a child was in Shanghai and then you went to law school or went to a law faculty? Is that what you went to? Yes. How did you decide to become a lawyer? Is it hard to be a lawyer in China or how did you become a lawyer? That was my dream when I was a middle school student. Five law students from East China Law School visited our middle school and gave us a law lecture. I was most impressed by their speech. I want to be a lawyer of my graduation from East China Law School. My dream is to protect the legal rights and interests of all my clients, no matter if they are public clients or private clients. Okay. So, you grew up in Shanghai and you were inspired by other young lawyers, I guess, to become a lawyer and you studied law. When did you become a lawyer again? Was it 1990? 1990. At that time, there were only 500 lawyers in Shanghai. Wow. Is there a bar test or how did you become a lawyer? Oh, it's a lot of time to be a preparation. You need four years of study law to obtain the bachelor law degree and after that, you should have a job in the law firm for a one-year probation that is probation period and you should pass the exam. Then you should have the interview with the representative from Shanghai Bar, the local bar. After all procedures above, you can practice the law in China. You said at that time there were 500 lawyers in Shanghai and was it, it sounds like hard process. Was it a hard process to become a lawyer? Yes, it's very hard. I see. And then once you became a lawyer, what did you just, you know, what type of law did you practice? You know, as the first three years, I, you know, practice every field. As a young lawyer, I have no clients. Nobody trusts me. I should work hard every day. So after three years, I became the first 18 lawyers who were authorized to practice securities law in Shanghai. So I represent more clients when they need IPO in Shanghai Stock Chain. And securities law, wow, that's a pretty impressive field. And you became authorized in that area. Is that for all of China? Yes, all of China. So not just Shanghai? Yeah, not Shanghai. As that, you know, in 1993, the China Securities Relativity Commission was established. They needed legal requirements that lawyers who practice securities law should have the license. So they published a regulation jointly with the Ministry of Justice to approve. I remember maybe 200 lawyers, Chinese lawyers, also were authorized to practice securities law. In all of China. In Shanghai, there are 18 lawyers. And then what did you do? Then was that what your practice was mostly? Yeah, so I started the practice of corporate law, corporate finance, M&A, and also IPOs. So I became a more specialized lawyer. Okay, and I noticed that you're a founding partner of Jin Mao Partners. What is that? What is Jin Mao Partners? How did that come about? One of the tallest buildings in China in Shanghai is the Jin Mao Tower. In Chinese, they're the same name. The Jin Mao Partners is a firm specialized in corporate law and international legal service. When was that formed? It was established in 2007. And most of our partners are the former chief representative from big fortune 500 corporations, such as IBM, Siemens, some other foreign corporations. And are these like in-house counsel? They're a formal in-house counsel. Now became the four-time attorneys. And how did Jin Mao come about? I mean, how did you get together? What brought you together? The key concept of our founding partners is to provide the best service to our clients. International clients, domestic clients, corporate clients, government clients. That's our idea. And so what type of clients do you have at Jin Mao? Mostly corporate clients? Yeah, mostly 90% are corporate clients. Among them, over 60% are overseas. Are the United States? United States, European clients, ASEAN clients, Japanese clients, Singapore clients. Okay, now you've been a lawyer then for almost 30 years in Shanghai, right? How has the practice of law changed in the past 15 years or so in China? Has it changed or what's been your experience? Yes, in the past 30 years, a great change is I think in place in the legal industry. We have many, many practicing lawyers and we enact many new laws and regulations established in the field of investment, finance, trade, insurance, banking, securities. And the most important issue that we have, in my point of view, we have a very good legal requirement for foreign investors who make investment in different cities and areas of China. Okay, and what does that mean exactly? What type of... This is the law. It says newly enacted law is called the foreign investment law that is covering the sign of foreign equity joint venture law, sign of foreign contractual joint venture law and wholly foreign owned enterprises law. And you would advise foreigners who come in and want to make investments in China on how to comply with the law. And your partners too. You're all in the same area, the same type of work? Almost the same, almost the same. You know the Shanghai Disneyland, that is up to you Nick and the first Disneyland invested in mainland China. And to my great surprise, as you know, I'm one of the legal counsel of this project, and also the unique legal advisor for the Syndicate Loan Agreements for the Shanghai Disneyland. And only after one year, after its opening, it make profit. Wow. Yes, measurable. Yeah, that's great. In a short period of time, such a huge project make profits. So I think the American investors, foreign investment, they can success. Can do well. And it sounds like what you're saying that changes you've seen are mostly commercial changes. The law has become more economic, more commercial. Is that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And typical day for you in China, you're in Shanghai practicing, right? What is a typical day like for you? As a Shanghai lawyer, what do you do? When do you get to work? When do you leave work? And what do you do in between? Shanghai is an international hub. And it's one of the international centers of economy, finance, trade, innovation. So it's very easy for everybody, every practicing lawyer, Chinese lawyers, international lawyers, we have 200 international law firm sets its representative office in Shanghai. Wow. Yeah. 200. That number is bigger than in Beijing. So it's very easy for us to travel over the world. Just by staying in Shanghai? Yeah, staying in Shanghai. Yeah. We have two airports. One is Hongqiao International Airport. That is a Pudong International Airport. And so when you're at home in Shanghai, what time do you have to get to work? Oh, I'm very diligent. I get up early, 6 a.m. and sleep 11 p.m. normally. And you're working the whole time? Yeah, whole time. I enjoy the work. And you're communicating with your clients? Yeah. Also, you know, many international travels. I will remember that for one day, life, in the morning, I was in Shanghai. And in noon, I will be in Tokyo. And in the evening, maybe I will be in Singapore. It's very, quite often. And that's the nature of your practice. Yeah. Okay. Now, before we take our break, what is the hardest thing about being a lawyer in China? What do you think is the hardest thing? In my point of view, the hardest thing is that how to let the Chinese law go abroad. You know, we have the many Chinese local clients, they go abroad, they make investment in different kind of countries and regions. But it's very, it's quite difficult for them to find an applicable law. I suppose them to write a governing law of China, Chinese law, in their commercial countries. That means we can represent them in different kinds of cities, together with the local international firms and lawyers. You're trying to make your clients have the familiarity of Chinese law when they go outside of China. And it's difficult to do that. Yeah, it's quite difficult for them to understand. Yeah. That's what I hear you're saying. Is that right? As you know, the different jurisdiction has different type of laws and regulations. Well, and let's, I want to ask you one question. I mean, how is the relationship with the United States? Has this trade war had any impact with China and the way that Chinese feel about Americans? You know, this year is the 40th anniversary of the diplomatic relations between China and the United States. My second international trip was in 1993. That is the delegation of all China Lawyers Association to US. I was one of the members and act as the interpreter. I think, I do think that it's very important that Chinese and American people to work together and Chinese lawyers and American lawyers to work together. Sounds like what you're saying is we got to know each other. Yeah. And we're going to take a break right now. Yeah. Short break. We'll come back and then I want to ask you more about the Inter-Pacific Bar Association and what's going to happen. Yeah. So we'll take a break right now and we'll be back with Shanghai Council. Jack Lee, thank you. Thanks to our ThinkTech underwriters and grand tours, the Atherton Family Foundation, Carol Mon Lee and the Friends of ThinkTech, the Center for Microbial Oceanography Research and Education, Collateral Analytics, the Cook Foundation, Duane Kurisu, the Hawaii Council of Associations of Apartment Owners, Hawaii Energy, the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum, Hawaiian Electric Company, Integrated Security Technologies, Gail and Ho of BAE Systems, Kamehameha Schools, MW Group Limited, the Schindler Family Foundation, the Sydney Stern Memorial Trust, Polo Foundation, Yuriko J. Sugimura. Thanks so much to you all. Aloha. Welcome back. I am Mark Shklav, host of ThinkTech Hawaii's Law Across the Sea program and I am here with Jack Lee and the last point that Jack made was in order for us to get along, we got to get to know each other and he thinks that Jack, I think I'm quoting you correctly, you think we've got to meet and talk with each other and maybe become friends and that would might, I hear you saying that might help resolve some of the problems that exist in the world and one of the things that you're doing is you are the president-elect of the Inter-Pacific Bar Association, which I see as accommodating that type of relationships, those types of relationships. What I want to ask you is first of all, what is the Inter-Pacific Bar Association? The Inter-Pacific Bar Association is one of the major international organization in the world. It was established in the year of 1991 in the capital of Japan, Asia and now it's have 2,000 members from almost 70 countries and regions. I will remember my friend Mark. He was one of the important funding members of Inter-Pacific Bar Association. Thank you. And when did you get involved with the IPBA as we call it? IPBA for Chinese lawyers, I will remember that in 2002, Hong Kong, you see our host, the annual meeting and conference and a great delegation from China, old China Lawyers Association, this conference. And after that, I became the member of IPBA. So you were there. You were there. You were in Hong Kong. Is that right? Oh, okay. And you felt this was something that you wanted to belong to and be a part of? Yes. I think this very special international bar organization is that people are very friendly and people are very easy to communicate and people are very happy to work together, refer case to each other and share the views and topics of their different legal jurisdiction. Okay. And so there are many aspects I hear you talking about. Okay. So you joined the IPBA. What is your current role with the IPBA? What is your current position? My current position is that to serve my members. As you know, I was the jurisdiction council member in 2016. And after 11... For China? For China, yes. China, JCM. We call it JCM. And only after 11 months, I became vice president of IPBA since Shanghai was selected as the hosting city of our 30th annual meeting conference in 2020. How does that work? The council selects a city and then you choose a vice president? That's a very complicated legal procedure. First is the normating committee. That's a very important committee who consists of president, president-elect, vice president and all other important officers of IPBA. They will make a decision which city will be the whole city of the next and the next year of IPBA and meeting conference. And so you right now are president-elect, right? Yeah. Of IPBA. And what do you do in that role? What's your job? And also the next meeting, annual meeting of the IPBA will be in Shanghai in 2020. I'm sorry. So you're president-elect and you'll be hosting the next meeting in Shanghai. So this year I am very, very busy. I tell you choose in the past 10 months, I almost traveled 20 cities, international cities, to promote a conference, to meet with our members, to encourage them to come to Shanghai, a happy IPBA gathering in the biggest city of China, next April, April 20 to April 23. Okay, April 20 to April 23. What's going to happen? What goes on at the Shanghai annual meeting? What do you got planned? Shanghai annual meeting conference, I think will be one of the most successful event in the history of IPBA. And actually it is the first time for Shanghai to host the annual meeting conference of one of the leading international bar organizations in the city opening sport in 1843. What type of activities, both professional and social, are planned for Shanghai? We organize many social events. In the night of April 20 next year, a grand opening welcome event will be held in the magnificent Huangpu River Cruise. And in the evening of the first day, it's April 21. Delicious Chinese banquet will be held in the Fuzong Shanghai International Convention Center. And in the evening of April 22, we will organize a magnificent farewell event at a very special venue that is Shanghai Expo Center. There was a very big and huge entrance. You can drink, you can eat, you can share views with your friends, you can sing and announcing. Probably a new IPBA conference song will be produced. Oh really? In our annual meeting conference next year. Oh I think this is a secret you've just shared with me. And I really like these social activities. To me, in Asia, business, a lot of it is social. How you make contacts, how you get to meet people and learn to trust them is through social activities and just talking at those type of events. So those sound very good. Now during the daytime, what type of professional seminars do you have? Or is there a general idea of what you have going on during the annual meeting? Yes, the same of the conference is the resinking international rules and the two days and challenges of our legal professional profession. And 80 sessions will be arranged in our next year's annual meeting conference. 80, 80. You know, we have 24. When people come in, it's like seminars, that type of thing. Yes, we have a half day for opening ceremony for the beginner session. And after that, there are all concurrent sessions organized by our 24 IPBA committees. And all in various topics. Very topics, focusing on the, you know, digital economy, you know, IA issues, and the Belt and Road, and also the international arbitration. If I am a lawyer, why should I go to Shanghai for the annual conference? I think Shanghai is one of, it's my point of view, is one of the global cities in the world. And it's east of Paris. You know, most people, no matter if it's western or eastern, they like Shanghai. Shanghai is a very open city. Shanghai welcomes all of the people from all over the world. So as a practicing commercial lawyer, you know, IBB is a commercial lawyer's organization. If you are a commercial lawyer, you should come to Shanghai. Why? Simply because you can meet local people, local lawyers, local entrepreneurs, local bankers. That is very easy to establish a platform for lawyers to know each other, to provide a service to the clients, and to develop our relationship. That's very important. So do not miss Shanghai. Do not miss China. I'm coming. Thank you. I'll be there. Yeah. Now, you said you've gone to 20 cities? Yeah. Wow. Give me some examples. What cities have you? Our cities, you know, many cities. In Asia, it's Malaysia, Singapore, Japan, Thailand, Vietnam, Sri Lanka. And in European countries, there are many. It's England, France, Germany, Italy, Belgium, nevertheless, and Spain. And in the American, you know, it's US, and Chile, Argentina, and Brazil. And in Australia, it's New Zealand, and the Australian. So there are many, many international cities. You've traveled all over to travel. Yeah, we traveled a lot. We promoted a conference. Simply because we have many local members from these beautiful countries and regions. Okay. Now, let me ask you a question. When you're not doing securities law, living in Shanghai, and when you're not running around the world, promoting IPBA, what do you do to relax? What do you do when you're not doing those things? You know, I enjoy life. I like singing. Sometimes, we invite my friends to sing together. Wow. Yeah. So that's why we need an IPBA conference song next year. I see. Maybe we can invite more members to sing this new song. Everybody sing together, and you'll lead us. I just have an idea. We can sing together. I don't know if you want to hear me sing though. That's the only thing. You are a good singer. You will remember that in Manila in 2017, then President-elect Harry organized a very special concert, and I was invited to sing a Chinese classical song. The name of this song is The Moon to Present My Heart. To my best surprise, every Philippine lawyer can sing this song. Immandering. You know what? That tells us a lot, doesn't it? It tells us how we are all connected. Yeah. And how a lot organization can bring people together. Yeah, yeah. And maybe resolve some differences at times just by singing a song. Yeah, yeah. And it surprised you that they knew the words and probably felt the same about it. Well, I'm very happy to have had you be my guest today and talk about your background and the IPBA, and I look forward to seeing you in April in Shanghai. Thank you so much. Thank you very much for being my guest. Thank you, thank you. Okay, we are done today with Jack Lee, my guest, my Shanghai Council. And we look forward to maybe doing a show from Shanghai one day. So Aloha everybody. Thank you very much.