 So it is 832 a.m. On November 20th, and I am calling the Meeting of the Community Resources Committee of the Town Council to order we are on video For so it's being recorded for future broadcast purposes. I believe by the town We are going to We'll see if public show up later But for now I'm going to say there are no public here our first item on the agenda generally is public comment Oh, there's one public. Do you have public comment as we start our agenda? General or to a specific item The items that will take public comment, okay, you can get settled if you want I was just in the middle of public comment So we're gonna pass over public comment for just a minute while I make the other announcements We don't have presentations which is item number five our minutes We are not going to deal with today. I received a copy of them late last night So instead of trying to get everyone to review them before 8 30 this morning. We will get that on the next packet I don't believe I have any other announcements at this time Which was item number seven on the agenda, so I'm gonna hold not anticipated I don't think we have any of that myself, but we'll get to that at the end And so then we will move back to public comment the revised agenda missed Labeled which ones will take specific public comment on when we get to them So I'm gonna announce which ones those are with the revised agenda. I forgot to change them both discussion items Which are the master plan update discussion and the downtown parking working group priority recommendations discussion We'll take public comment at the time we discussed that But any other public comment is welcome now and it looks like we have someone who would like to make public comment So miss McGowan you are welcome so I've made a Public bow never to make a comment on parking, but so I'm not but actually it's just something I've been thinking about That maybe the CRC and the planning board should have liaisons to each other or you know, I was gonna suggest this also to the planning board somehow because of the work is so Intertwined and I just come because I see how important and interrelated it is and if you're working on the master plan or zoning changes and you know big issues in farmland or land acquisitions or management plans for you know Conservation areas all those are be in the purview of the planning board. It would probably draw on each other's expertise and understand so I We normally do not respond to public comment, but because we had a Discussion and announcement at the council meeting on liaison scheduling on Monday. I will reiterate that which is our Outreach communications and appointments committee is working on discussing which committees the council might Suggest having liaisons to and then and the announcement was that I believe for December 16th The goal is to have a recommendation from that committee to the town council on which Committees it recommends the council appoint liaisons to liaisons will not be appointed at that meeting But we're moving forward with that. We had a first reading of modification to the liaison rules of The town council to on Monday night So I just thought even though we normally don't comment since that was an announcement I would I would reiterate that announcement at this meeting in case people don't watch all six hours of that Meeting on Monday night to get to that announcement Yeah, Andy Maybe I should turn this over to Steve who's chair at the time But we did have some discussion in this committee about the relationship with the planning board and you as chair at the time it takes some steps We did have at least that a couple of times when members of the committee did meet with members of the Sounding subcommittee I'm trying to think if Jenna well, I think you're at least appointed at the time, but so we one of the things we did is we used to be just So just before the zoning subcommittee The ease whatever the verb is the easing so therefore People who would be coming to town hall for the zoning subcommittee Meaning could come earlier and participate that way and then similarly People who are on the CRC could stay and attend the zoning subcommittee then the planning board meetings so unfortunately stopped that Schedule because of me because I teach Wednesday afternoon so that no longer became Viable, but as we consider dates times for our meetings in the spring I You know, I thought that that worked out relatively well, and we did have some joint I think you were on but we did have some jointly called meetings with this CRC and the zoning subcommittee we had one We had one that was mindfully called and had full participation and then we had other ones that were Simply noticed that way in case In case there was participation No, I think it is important issue discussed because we also have Rule that we adopted within the council That to the extent possible when there's a zoning change that requires a hearing that we would seek to take advantage of the statutory Ability to have a joint hearing and only have to post one hearing and so it creates the need to really establish a relationship That is different than the normal relationship with other boards and committees because of the fact that Things are being developed within the planning board that then need the approval of council Which has reached through this committee? I think that it's a matter that Both planning board and the council do need to look at very carefully, but I appreciate Janice raising it because it does provoke us to Have that discussion again. Yep, so we are going to move on I forgot to make one announcement which relates to the agenda change I just wanted to let people know why we removed the Originally, the agenda had an action item of the discussion of the climate action goals that were proposed by the energy and climate action committee on Potential referral of the town council that was not referred to us because the town council voted to adopt Them on Monday night so without the referral and with them already adopted it was removed from this agenda But I wanted to let anyone potentially looking at an original agenda know why it was removed from that agenda That brings us to discussion item a the master plan update welcome Dorothy and We received a referral on Monday night on November 18th from the council actually it's not a referral We were directed to Work jointly with the planning board to recommend a process for updating and adopting the master plan in accordance with Charter section eight 9.8 the Charter requires the town council at some point to adopt the master plan There is a master plan that has been adopted by the planning board. It was adopted a long time ago Years ago and so this is this direction from the town council is to figure out how to get from that Master plan that's been adopted to the council getting to adoption and so I'd like to Structure this conversation first one with one specific question that we want to answer and then move on to a Second question and the first question is since it has already been adopted by the planning board the council has In some sense two options. It has the option to adopt as is without Going back to the planning board and asking for any changes or anything. We can just say we're good. Let's Adopt it so the CRC IC has an ability to recommend to the council to just Adopt as is or the CRC can make a recommendation that says we would rather not adopt as is we would rather see some changes Before presenting it before it's presented for adoption to the council And so the first question I see is which of those happen which of those would CRC recommend because if it's adopt as is It's it there's not really much to work with the planning board at this point If it is not then we need to discuss how we're going to work with the planning board What we might want to see updated and all of that so that's the first question I want us to discuss and potentially come to a Resolution on and Steve had his hand up so Steve I Think they're probably infinite options, but one of them Since it is the planning board by state law that is the generator and approver of Master plans and then we have this added Endorsement or I'm sorry, whatever the word is adoption by the town council One thing we could do if we could certainly work collaboratively. That's what the directive said But you could also we could also say to the planning board This can be your process so in other words, we'd like you to review your own your own master plan and Come back to the CRC with where you see the You know, what's the current state of the master plan so that's another option Any thoughts on these initial options? I Thought that we had said that For example sustainability is not in the master plan and that we have to Rethink where that goes and if that at least examine what that does to the plan as written and It's a little early in the morning for my brain at this time But I thought there were several other items that we had agreed upon that we needed to look at again in terms of the master plan but Steve's point is, you know, things don't have to just go in a straight line. They can go two places at once and I think the planning board should look at it again our role is different from the planning boards and that we're supposed to Have a more inclusive perspective but they are more knowledgeable about Details, so I think it would be good for both bodies to be looking at it and then the planning board to come to us and We would have a you know good conversation and Then we have to make recommendations to the town council, but I thought that's kind of what you had We had kind of come to that point already, but I'm not sure it is what I had been talking to the planning board chair about But it's not my decision. It's it's it's a recommendation of CRC as to whether we want to Recommend to the council that it seek updates before adoption or whether it just wants to adopt without updates at this point So I'm hearing from you Dorothy that you'd rather not recommend Adopting as is Okay, any other thoughts on that? Andy I Mean the only thing that I could think of her is to say that we're adopting as is for the time being recognizing that it has been a valuable plan developed through a careful process and That many aspects of the plan have guided the planning board in town meeting for a long period of time and how it's been proceeding since its initial Formulation and But at the same time I Guess it's just maybe there's three points the second thing is in Discussing this briefly with the Zoning subcommittee at that time There's a little bit of discussion that we had about the planning board and that Conversation About the master plan and generally I think that people Feel that the core of the master plan is was well developed and it's been really solid but the There are pieces that we might want to look at as a community It's really a community process that needs to take place So it's sort of going in the direction of If we did say yes, we like the plan as it's been but that we all plans need review and In doing so We are both saying that the core plan has been developed and is Functioning well for the town but does need to be reviewed as all plans do and We encourage that process to go forward Steve Just following that thread. That's another option is that We could recommend adoption, but then also recommend that there be a much more rigorous sort of report carding every blank so that we know so that we have some idea how the issues in the master plan are Basically affecting town policy or actions that the town is taking so that So we did go through this exercise in the summer where different parts of the master plan were presented and Dave and Chris and others You know tried to give us updates, which was helpful, but I'm not sure that everyone else You know knew what those Achievements have been but so for me, that's maybe a missing link is a you know sort of the rigorous report carding of What we've actually done and how that relates to the to the master plan so we've got Four members here, and I've heard three different things from three different So I think it's it's right for discussion of I've heard the potential to recommend adopting right now without Recommending changes at this time, but then continue on and say to the council we recommend adopting now But we also recommend a request to the planning board or an allowance of us to continue working with the planning board however, we want to word it for a Review of that and a potential update based on I guess Andy didn't say this but based on sort of the standard length of time master plans sit before being Reviewed not rewritten, but reviewed I've heard from Dorothy Don't do that do the review before the adoption And I've heard a do the adoption maybe do that review that Andy said but also we would like to receive Potentially an in-depth report of where we stand with its implementation. Maybe I think that that would be how you might word that implementation Those are I think two of them could be combined into one The other one is sort of the opposite sort of a different track, and so I'd like to hear discussion on What people are thinking between sort of those two Dorothy Master plan was not completely Accepted Part of the process had did not go through and yet it has been guiding Amherst for quite a while So I would think it would be Just to me it does not make sense since it's been not Officially accepted but has actually been governing things that it can continue to function in that way but that for us to Recommend adopting it before reviewing it more detail would be strange and CRC gets new assignments all the time So I could see it would become very easy to say oh well We can look at that later, and I think that part of the task is to look at it now It may be through a small subcommittee, but I really did enjoy the process that we had been Going through before So I suggest that we do not approve it now since it's been functioning without that last layer of approval I guess town meeting didn't improve the the latest revised copy though. I think Steve has Maybe get some better information on that so I would say that I would like to continue to look at it and then to with a perhaps a few Small updates not like a year's worth, but small ones refer it back to the council. So I just want to Be clear the master plan was accepted adopted I don't know what the white right wording is approved by the planning board State law requires approval by a planning board in a town. It does not require any other approval So in theory or actually in actuality our master plan our current master plan has gone through Until we changed governments every single needed approval in order for it to be in In effect in our town it never did receive town meeting approval The state does not require Legislative approval and so that was not required it was not done But it was not required the reason we as a council have to approve it is because the new charter Says the legislative body is to approve it and so this is trying to get to that last step But it is a fully functioning document under state law at this time But but people have many people have spoken to me about that lack of that final approval and we're the body that has replaced town meeting So I think that we are We're not going to reject the master plan But I think we want to look at it and to make a few changes and then to do that last step to make it clear Andy No, I think that it's important though to understand and to get the jargon right on this subject because State law says it is the planning board that adopts it. It was adopted the fact that it never went before town meeting Some members of town meeting were unhappy about that but Their unhappiness is ultimately about the legislature that established the statute regarding the process for planning and It had nothing to do with decisions made within the town so I think that that anger of some former town meeting members is Was unfortunate, but it was based upon Not a full understanding or a full acceptance of the law As it is But our job isn't to go backwards our job is to go forward and I think that We now have a charter that says something different and The charter now has the piece that governs and I think that we need to be going forward and put that feeling behind So you guys said everything so this being air most you'll get opinions about everything and I know Being on the planning board at the time that it was approved I know and also being on town meeting There definitely were comments made at town meeting that town meeting should be the body Approving it, but that's not state law. So we thought Amherst followed state law as it should be doing and that you know that was 10 years ago and I Definitely know what that those comments are The there is a question that does this is this master plan Is there a sense that it's not valid because we have not adopted it even though it is valid so that would be my inclination to Adopt and then come up to you know to recommend adopt so that we can sort of get that behind us and then come up with a process for Sort of a steady process of review and reporting so that I guess that's one sense that There's no time like the president to You know add our layer of endorsement to this and then get on with You know implementing reporting modifying as needed Andy and I appreciate it Dorothy that you brought up the subject of Sort of the environmental issues that we dealt with on Monday night and they're going to be continuing to deal with as a council in the community That section of the master plan was Developed based upon an understanding of the science of the environment at the time that it was adopted If there's been any area that there's been a lot of scientific work and change and understanding it is in that subject and so the whole Issue of greenhouse gas emissions Was not included even though there are environmental pieces in there But they don't really it isn't really couched with current understanding so in some ways that's to me a really good example of why it's important to review the plan because as Our fellow councilor Ms. DeMond has reminded me both in Conversations first on a one-to-one level and at the council that We ought to have a master plan that is based upon current understanding of what the science is and Look at it from Information that we have now So I'm gonna take the privilege to talk myself as I'm hearing everyone Options and thoughts One thing I see we could potentially or the difference between sort of the two approaches that I'm hearing adopt and then seek Update or update then adopt is the timing of this and I think that's something maybe we need to consider is where do we as a council Want to be as we potentially begin considering Any zoning changes that might or other other bylaws or other measures It doesn't have to be a zoning change or a bylaw change in fact that affects Whether the master plan is being implemented it could be many different things I mean the master plan has so many chapters on so many all this parking that we're discussing actually relates to the master plan And all that we'll get to a little bit of that discussion later But you know as we go forward with that stuff being presented to us as a town council Do we want to have already adopted a master plan or do we want to still be sort of in this limbo that Dorothy actually presented fairly well that town council town meeting members had always Set as a limbo of well the planning boards adopted it But us legislature has not and so is it something that we as a legislature despite it being you know a Valid in-force plan We haven't said we like it enough to make sure we're following it is sort of some of the arguments that were always made at town Meeting do we want that limbo to still exist as we start discussing? Substantive changes and adoptions as keepers of the public way as other things or do we want to have said We're going to adopt this and we're going to while adopting it say we know it needs updates Specifically in some of these other areas. It's been about ten years since the planning board adopted it or approved it and We recommend at the same time we adopt this one We recommend that the planning board undertake and the planning department maybe undertake a review of these Specific areas over the course of the next year a year and a half so that it can as they've Readily said to us in many meetings. It should be reviewed every five to ten years We recommend we'll adopt it, but we recommend that that review happen So I think that's that could be one of what guides which way we go here Do we want to have something to say we're following and we've? Accepted that as a document. We're following when we get these which are coming fast and furious at almost at this point Or do we want to sort of still be in that limbo? Dorothy well Sometimes I like to do things In a kind of an academic way, which is there's so many things coming at us I'd like to concentrate on this for a brief period of time in order to do Kind of like I'm coming down halfway between the two positions I could really see a Retreat a full day of where we Reprep for that by actually reading the whole thing over again before that moment so that it's fresh and sitting down with some planning board members and Going through it not not the final perfect absolute Update that we will be working on as you say throughout the year, but To deal with what we think are things that we need to look at right now So that we can feel a little firmer base to our decisions as we go forward So I do want to add one thing I didn't add which is The planning board if we want updates the planning board would have to also Adopt those updates and and in terms of where state law is I believe it's not us Writing those updates It should be the planning board in the planning department and it would come from them with their prior approval before we See it again We would hopefully and that that would be this next part as we get into what what that process might look like Hopefully it's some sort of joint collaboration or or there's lots of communication there and so it doesn't come To us as a council and our committee as a surprise of oh, we just updated it and you've not seen any of it But I don't personally I don't see the CRC Doing really any of the writing of it or any of the physical updating of it It doesn't in my belief with where state law is belonging us at all And so I just wanted to make that clear from my point of view And all so Fluts Dave I've been listening very carefully and it's it's interesting with just the four of you the different opinions And I'm kind of extrapolating to 13 counselors talking about this the full council talking about this Would it be helpful? I have had discussions with my staff about where we think the master plan is and and what you know I think in our minds we have discussed some I would call them You know modest updates, but important updates and you've touched upon a couple of possible areas I think from staff standpoint It is a little hard to think about the council adopting a master plan from 2010 with some of the Emissions or or the changes that have happened in the world and then the changes that have happened in town since 2010 so would it be helpful if I just went through a couple of those areas Is this a good time or I think it would and I think it's a perfect time. Okay, great Well, let me and again. I I frame this under what we think I don't want these to seem Overwhelming because from a staff standpoint, we don't think they are just to give you a perspective You know we We are required to do five-year updates to our open space and recreation plan If we don't do those then five to seven years, then we're not eligible for grants that typically and Steve can correct me on this But I believe master plan the recommendation for a master plan is about 20 years So here we are midpoint of that we might think about it as a you know as as Steve said kind of a What was your? Kind of report carding on what we've done have there been changes in the world in the region and in in town Maybe we look at it as kind of a midpoint you know Editions and editing to it to take us another ten years If we think about the council Adopting the master plan does that then mean I you know in one of your options. Does that mean we Don't revisit it for another ten years I can't imagine that because ten years from now the world the region and the town will have changed even more So in let me just I can run through these fairly quickly So we've talked about climate change not being referenced so throughout the document it would be fairly easy to You know insert Anything related to climate change in the land use economic development natural and cultural resources sections open space and recreation section and Transportation and circulation so from climate change We would also get more into what does it mean for Amherst to be a sustainable community? so not only looking at our Greenhouse gas emissions, but also how do we become a more sustainable and a more resilient? community because We we like the rest of the world need to adopt adapt to a changing climate and so those sections could be a Amended edited to include sustainability and resiliency change in demographics so We the census is in 2020 so we wouldn't we wouldn't have all of that information But certainly there's been some demographic changes in Amherst since 2010 so we could do some modest Updating of that, you know, for instance decreasing population of school-aged children We know there's an increase in population of elders Affordable housing issues Certainly, they would be more prominent in a 2020 update to the master plan than they were in 2010 and we've made some progress in areas with affordable housing So Putting greater emphasis on the need for affordable housing in a in an update to the master plan We would need to add Reference to our new form of government and and how That works and how we got here The old master plan does not really put much emphasis on an Implementation part of it and that's really, you know report carding a Steve reference I recall our former planning director saying to me often that In 2010 we believe this was a very strong master plan Where we as a community may not have put enough resources And time and energy is really on Implementing the strategies in the master plan so putting a little more emphasis on implementation Jumping around a little bit How has land use changed since 2010 we've had a number of new developments so referencing Those new developments in our downtown and in our village centers We've had a number of New initiatives in town so referencing the net zero energy from municipal projects We are very close to updating our flood mapping Which will be coming to the council in the coming months So we should reference that because that will That will have some impact on land use Adding reference to things like the marijuana industry we did not it wasn't even on the radar screen in 2010 and here we are Some years later with retail and medical So There's there's more and again some of these could simply some of these are sentences adding reference in a sentence or two but Chris Brestrup and I went through you know two and a half pages of Potential updates to the master plan, but again, I don't want to I don't want to Say these are are you know, this is not Months of writing these edits as Mandy said I think this clearly sits with the planning board as Supported by the planning staff so these these potential changes would be written With the planning board and the and the planning staff working together and then I would envision them coming to you For the major categories and again, I've got two and a half pages And we've already gone through the master plan and seen where we can insert some things Steve think first. Thank you Dave. Yeah, so that would be a process that I were So one can also see a process where rather than actually changing the document that there's simply an appendix So everything that you just said Could be an appendix that says on page 21 The reference should be town council rather than town meeting on page 23 You know, we think that this sentence should read that way and then that way at least the original the core Master plan is intact. So and of course, there'll be a record of it anyway, but But that would be a process that I would think would be very useful. So the master plan There's nothing in the master plan that say impedes us from doing the right thing regarding resiliency and climate change You know sustainability. So that would be so there's nothing in there that prevents us from doing good work Yeah, just wanted to make that Andy Just follow up on that really quickly, but then I really want to turn to actually one other thing and She'll focus us into another into a very important direction. I think but the master plan and this was the discussion I was referencing with council to mine talks about green building standards and refers to What is known as the lead standards? That was the state of the art at the time that it was developed Those of us who worked on the net zero energy by-law We were getting presentations from the advocates of that Change including Chris riddle who were pointing out that lead is no longer the Standard people who really are most Progressive about trying to address it in that net zero energy is and you know, we can't go backwards in time and say that The planning board should have thought about the fact that someday the net zero energy would replace lead But on the other hand we have to deal with it. And so that is just one thing to point out Mandy when the in the report From the Charter Commission to the community that presented the charter. There's this paragraph Master plan adopted by the town council not just the planning board state law requires Only requires that a town's master plan be developed and adopted by the planning board the charter Proposal goes beyond this minimal requirement requiring the master plan to be publicly debated and adopted by Amherst Excuse me adopted by the town council so that it can serve as an agreed upon blueprint for the future direction of Amherst Master plan will then provide a foundation for planning and zoning decisions Helping to ensure that the individual zoning decisions that are made in isolation, but rather in the broader context of town interests Going back to that paragraph in Commission's report Was there any discussion that you recall about what was meant? As far as the public engagement piece Is I think the publicly debated Sort of suggests that so that that is because of the charter section 9.8 Which under section be the adoption the master plan or any amendments shall be approved by the planning board and then be Submitted to the town manager by the town manager to the town council Which shall hold at least one public hearing there on and then the town's council shall adopt the master plan with or without Amendments, so it it's referencing that requirement for the town council to hold that public hearing once it's been Adopted by the planning board, but before the town council adopts Does that make sense? Planning board is Approved by the planning board adopted by the council Yes, Steve Yes We as long as we held that one public hearing before adoption This is not the public hearing public hearings would need noticed and all and it would be at the council level But yes, that that was sort of the first thing I brought as to what our first decision sort of is is are we going to? Adopt what the math the planning board has already approved as the charter would allow or are we going to before we do that process? sort of potentially recommend or request that it be re-looked at for a new approval with You know modifications, and so that that's where I felt like we have to make that first decision and that might actually involve making a decision of approve or adopt with concurrent recommendations to the planning department and the planning board to Update and approve Modifications for us to then adopt Amendment however it would look but it could that could be one of what recommendations come out of this body is a adopt as approved by the planning board, but Also recommend at the same time Continuing doing that formal 10-year review any updates that need to be there Whatever amount of time that might take our planning side of this that the executive to do Before it comes back for yet another potential adoption As an update Dorothy Well, I think that it would be not that difficult according to what Davis said to make the Adoptions which his staff has already or the revisions Okay Okay, let's start again. I can't see a public hearing in which we say okay Adopted as it is and then we're gonna talk about it later because people wouldn't go They just would be annoyed with the whole process and that we don't get anything except bad blood So I think we could do a very practical thing Go have the committee you said it's not that kind of be difficult to add those revisions I would say let's do that with the planning board Acting upon that and then bringing it to us and then we could say okay. There's a bigger process that we're doing But now we've made some Updates that brings it a little bit more into where we are as we go forward in looking at and re-examining as part of the normal re-examination process But I would not want to say let's pass it now and have a hearing because that's like making a farce out of government What's the point of the hearing if you're not doing anything? Steve That zero or worse. Yeah, so I just want to Say that lead is still very much a standard in in measuring You know Good building practices net zero is a different thing So net zero is a measure of energy use lead is a different kind of a measurement of building performance They're both good in their own particular ways and they both work in Different circumstances, so it's not that one is newer than the other or replace the other. There's also the living building challenge LBC, so we have a couple of examples right here in town and other kinds that are coming up So we don't have to certainly restrict to lead or to any standard Make comments about current Building performance measurements, I think is appropriate So I think I'm going to try and summarize our conversation before we move on to the next item Whether or not we had a recommendation to make today, we don't need to today So I'm gonna move that and put it on our next agenda because then first time that council would be able to take up our Recommendations December 16th, and we have one meeting Additional than today before that so we have a chance to to discuss this one more time But what I'm hearing I think after Dave's presentation and just and and you know sort of outlining of what planning staff Sees as a potential update and what that might include is that maybe we look towards a recommendation of getting recommendation to the council that includes Making those updates or recommending or asking for those updates to be made prior to the town council holding the hearing if those updates are made my understanding is the planning board beyond having an integral part of Reviewing those updates would have to adopt the master plan revisions if they were revised before it comes to the council again both under our charter But I believe state law would require that Because any changes I think need adopted by the planning board and so Maybe if that's what I'm hearing is sort of where we're getting to on a potential recommendation I can attempt to think about what that might look like in an actual recommendation to the town council To come back with some language so that we're not making that language up on the fly in a meeting And and maybe see what that might look like for our next meeting. Does that sound? Sound about as a good summary of where we are that doesn't mean that's what we've agreed on right now I just want to be clear But that's what sounds like where we might be leading and so then it might be helpful to have some sort of language to discuss Andy Yeah, it's actually fairly close to what I had been jotting down Though I'd been a little bit more specific in what I was recording here And that was to suggest that you as chair draft a process proposal Regarding how we can move forward with the adoption and Necessary and obvious modifications and that you communicate then with the planning staff through The assistant town manager and the planning board regarding your draft proposal and With those comments bring it back to the committee for further discussion Dorothy, I think that sounds good, and I like the two words necessary and obvious Because that kind of limits what we're talking about now and doesn't stop things from happening in the future That sound like a plan for everyone and Dave. Yeah, if I could just add and and I really appreciate the conversation today I wanted to add that You know there there certainly has been a couple of conversations with Christine gray Mullin the chair of the planning board I really appreciate, you know kind of the respect for the process that really it is the planning board That has a major role the major role in in the master plan but also an update or revisions to the master plan and that's also why I kept my Comments informal today and really didn't hand anything out to you because I think staff want to be really respectful of both you But also the planning board and not get ahead of the planning board. So I think Christine Breastrup would need to have a similar conversation with the plan the full planning board In the near future about what she believes are some of those areas that need addressing in the master plan And again, I don't want to make those. I don't want us make it seem Easy or or you know, this is not an hour of revision This would take quite a bit of work, but we think it is doable So I just wanted to make a couple of those points about respecting the process But also not getting ahead of the planning board staff do not want to be ahead of the planning board So I think that conversation needs to happen at one of their upcoming meetings and I can talk with Christine about that Okay, thank you. So we will we will I will do what Andy recommended or sort of what I also summarized I'll figure out how that looks For next meeting on December 4th before I close this out We do have a member of the public here She happens to also to be on the planning board But I had promised to offer public comment on this matter And so I want to make sure I do offer that since we do have public here Is there anyone who would like to make public comment on this? I am seeing the shaking of the head of the one member of the public here So we will then move on to our next matter for discussion today, which is a referral This is an item that was added on late Monday very late after the council referred it to us Because we lost an item on our agenda and this is To begin discussions on the priority recommendations that were referred And I'm just going to read the referral from the town council for purposes of recording and and and minutes We had a referral to That to refer the downtown parking study and memo from the downtown parking working group to the community resources council with a report back to the town council on the priority recommendation of the downtown parking working group within 90 days so that was the referral and We got the whole thing referred to us But our first order of business is to get that report on the priority recommendations Back to the council and so we have to figure out what that What that that report would be but I'm going to read the priority recommendations to for those that might not have It in front of them and all and and this has all been linked to the packet our packet for today Included documents already on the website So what our clerk of the council did was just create a document that has the links to those instead of uplating loading For example the master plan in 17 different locations since it's huge But the three priority recommendations of the downtown parking working group were to create a dedicated parking management position in charge of all transportation policy planning and implementation To the second one was to create a dedicated funding source to pay for downtown parking and transportation improvements And the third one was to implement high visibility and consistent signage in key locations and update the town's parking web page to be more user friendly And so we have been tasked with reporting back on these Priority recommendations so we have to figure out what that report might look like whether that is I Guess making recommendations on the recommendations. I'd love to hear what people think about what We are to do with these three priority recommendations in here on for our report back We can talk about each one individually. We could just talk about a process of what the report might look like I'm really up for anything right now Andy I guess the Question and Dave you can help us out with this a little bit is that To the recommendations who really cross over into Information and action that involves the executive branch of government too because the first one Is creating a position and we might support that but The administrative structure really needs to initiate from the town manager and not in council because That's the way our government is structured And he did make some reference to that During the meeting on Monday And then the second one was the whole question about reorganization of the Transportation enterprise funded to a parking district and what are the advantages and disadvantages of doing that and it might be helpful to get Some thoughts from the administrative and budget side About those two issues in particular And I think the last thing that I was thinking about is is that we did get into a little bit of a conversation about the fact that the current enterprise fund Also supports the bus system and then there was a reference made to the that If it's bus systems that serve downtown that that still might be an appropriate expenditure Most of our buses do go through downtown because that's the nature of how our town is built with the downtown being in the center of Mostly north-south town so we may actually be there but it would be helpful to have that kind of information and Dialogue going on before we actually Say, okay, let's accept the recommendations I think that a little bit more discussion and feedback would be helpful Dorothy. Yeah, I Remember we had these three listed on Monday. I didn't bring those notes. I also have I Don't think they're written down on any of the documents as simply as we were given on Monday I have the whole parking report here. I have the piece that was handed to me in bigger print so I could read it Here, but I remember it was what the first one was a person Yes, okay, wasn't just a structure was a person to it was funding It was the it was a discussion of a downtown parking benefits district essentially versus the transportation fund Yeah, okay, and then the third was signs signs in web page. Okay, so all of this has to do with money So and when it was brought up, I You know just reading Paul's expression. It was kind of like well. Yeah, but not quite sure where that's coming from And that's what Andy was referring to so I don't feel in a position to Act on this until I know where and how the money to hire a person Would come from and the analysis of change in funding sources is something that I can't just have an opinion on That's some there has to be some kind of very thorough financial presentation on that whether it is or is not possible So I'm just saying I don't see how we can make a decision on this now, but correct me if people disagree So maybe what I'm initially hearing is maybe we need to today's discussion come up with things and information we would like to either have Provided or a person potentially maybe the town manager to potentially attend a meeting to discuss this with us Before we can make a recommendation and report back to the council So maybe that's where our conversation today best lies is identifying All of that in order for us to be able to work towards bringing that back on December 4th or December 20th I think there's our two meetings in December So does that sound like a fruitful way to have this discussion? Dave Yeah, again, absolutely. I think I think that's the right direction to go I was not at the meeting Monday night, although I watched a good portion of the meeting Particularly on the ECAC recommendations. I did not hang in there for the entire parking discussion Although I I'm sure it was riveting I Probably shouldn't put that in the minutes, but it's now on tape, but anyway, it's important I Guess my question would would would would you as the CRC? Want are you satisfied with the information you got from Jeff Kravitz and the downtown parking working group on Monday night? Or would you like Jeff to come in to talk more about these recommendations because From a timing standpoint again, I can talk with Paul, but I'm not sure You know, but tea all as Dorothy mentioned all three of these have budgetary implications We're right at kind of the beginning of our budget cycle So I'm not sure what more the town manager could provide during the month of December with regard to a Potentially new position number one Enterprise fund to benefits district that you know, that's more of a discussion. How what are the what's the mechanics of that and then signage? Certainly we do have some things in the works with regard to signage We have welcome welcome signage in the works and budgeted a More robust parking signage Program could be discussed. So I'm just kind of wondering Do you need more information from Jeff with that help in your discussion? It seems to me that You might at the end of this make a recommendation to the town manager do you support the three recommendations of the downtown parking working group and that could then feed into the town manager's budget and considerations Steve Yeah, so of the three I think the most interesting and maybe even the most relevant to this particular committee is the parking benefit district because As someone mentioned that we we this committee we can be the generators of Or the proposers of policy or by law changes or I mean this could be a zoning by-law it could be It could be a number of different, you know a number of different things so in a way, that's the Most interesting the most CRC related the human resource part the parkings are or That's a really interesting idea, but I'm not sure how we can add more to that And then the way finding is so so in order of what I think is relevant to this I think the parking benefit district definitely Parking saw No the other one way finding yes ish because You know it's in a way There's no particular policy or no particular measure that we would You know be involved with So we also have to be careful not to be so we're not the finance committee So the finance committee is the one that is looking at the budget implications of all of the above, but we are the Kind of the the group that's working with a planning board the group that's working on you know sort of land use land use issues We're public way issues too, and so signage relates to that so so let's what I'm hearing is We need in order to have a robust discussion about the parking benefit the second recommendation the one about dedicated funding source and how that might affect public transportation and public ways in general and and transportation in general Downtown stuff land use you name it which is what this committee deals with I think we need more information and frankly might be helpful to have our economic development director here Who was the liaison to the downtown parking working group to talk about? the Distinctions between the transportation fund what a parking benefits district would look like how that would be could they not be separate could they you know sort of a much more in-depth discussion about The those two things because I think many of us are unclear About that and that that would help us figure out a Recommendation to the council on that Recommendation from the downtown parking working group as it relates to our CRC charge Let's talk about signage what information might we need in order to have a nice discussion about Recommendation number three the one about signs and website Dorothy All right, they I am very surprised that that was added because I went to a couple of the parking meetings and found There were many interesting suggestions They have not been accepted many of them are There's argumentation about but there you can't do signs until you know where the signs are leading you to so for example One of the things they mentioned was there are pockets of private parking Around town It's a possibility that the town could negotiate with private property owners for some kind of Cooperative use of them say at certain times of day when they're not in use for their business or their workers and that There for example another suggestion that was made and I believe I made this one Which was the hope they were very concerned about where the workers were parking where the workers parking in front of businesses And therefore making it impossible for customers to come in if in fact the workers the owners of different buildings Had arrangements with some of these private pockets of parking that that's where their workers could park that would free up the parking in front They talked a lot about the new parking apps Which the fact that I don't know how to use one I do know that once we get our parking straightened out I will be using one and they were moving towards that that there but right now they said you can't find out where Even town parking is people don't know people from the outside don't know The whole network of downtown parking has got to be dealt with in a comprehensive way by somebody That really focuses on it. They made many suggestions some of which I think we could get accepted The suggestion of increasing the fee for parking longer has met a really strong opposition from the business downtown The other idea the idea of having meters beyond till eight o'clock is also great pushback everywhere so The fact that there's completely inconsistent signing everywhere and that people don't know that permitted spots can be used in the evening That can be alleviated through physical signs and through a comprehensive plan done by Computer savvy people who have put that inside as part of the parking app But none of that exists now so I would certainly not want to have new signage done until It is decided what aspects of the record of the study And they have many are going to be applied and how and get that agreed upon then when there's some coherence In our downtown parking plan then we could do unified signage both physical and through You know our little phone apps, so I don't see us acting on number three right now so What What what I what I think the information then we need is based on that is Whether signage can be done piecemeal. Is it something that? Needs a comprehensive approach initially or can we come up with or is it worthwhile in in terms of so information about The benefits of waiting to do signage until other stuff is done or you know to benefits drawbacks of that versus doing some of it now With what we have and that conversation and maybe some information and I'm still working in my brain what that information might look like about Implementing some new signage with where parking is now and how easy that might be to then modify and stuff like that Steve Not to redo the study, but we're in a weird limbo land here where We were in a way. We're expecting that the only which is controlled by the town but other communities like Boston The public parking signage and the public parking reference simply means Places that you as you can park for a you know for a fee or for free And it's completely silent on whether or not it's owned by the municipality or owned by my private so I think that what one of the things the report is trying to do is to encourage entrepreneurship of Private parking lot owners to basically there's nothing that would probably well actually it's probably a zoning issue But to if they have a daytime business to maybe open up that business those parking lots at night or vice versa For parking for a fee, you know, so that has not happened to my knowledge in Amherst There's no privately run public parking lots But that would be one way of unlocking You know unlocking What may or may not be a parking issue? Dorothy So this brings us back to number one The reason we don't know the answers to this is that we don't have any place or one person That's in charge of parking and I think Although there is the financial issue. I think maybe if we worked on number one first Getting a person a place where these things are dealt with that we could then move forward on some of the others Andy You know, I did go back and look at the actual report from Nelson I guard on that subject and It's not Suggesting that a new full-time person Be appointed to that position what it is saying is that somebody from within-town government be given the management responsibility so it's sort of change of job description as opposed to creation of a position and And Which is why I made the comment earlier that yeah, I think it's it's it's a Something that we really ought to be thinking about we really ought to be doing but It does involve Discussion with the executive branch It would involve potential discussion there it might also involve discussion with our ad hoc goals committee as I think was Mentioned at the town council meeting of some of the stuff that does fall within sort of the executive budgetary side That we as counselors and legislators don't have a lot of control over if we believe it's important enough Then maybe it needs incorporated into the town manager's goals for the year and so I think that's one way we can potentially either frame the discussion here at CRC or When we report back to the council Report back with a recommendation that that particular item or these items actually be moved to Instead of the CRC committee for discussion a different committee for discussion that can also be part of our recommendations and report back to the council of after looking at our charge and These priority recommendations. We don't believe we're the right committee to have all of them That that's certainly part of it and it sounds like at least for Item number one that might be our recommendation is that it item number one by Steve item number one doesn't belong in CRC That at least that's what I'm hearing from The rest of this committee right now that we're not sure that's where this one belongs And then the question would be which committee do we recommend it go to for a more robust discussion? But I think that the but Andy had mentioned that it's really the town manager the executive Who would be in the position? We're no no council committee is in a position to I think to tell him Which person can add this to their job by shifting, you know job responsibilities around But I think it was a good focus if we don't have to come up with a new budget line We just need to specify a person because our parking discussion at the town council meeting revealed that We just don't at this time. We don't know who's doing what we don't know how to go proceed We know we've got many many problems and a lot of questions Sounds like up Dave So again, I'm looking for a little direction with the committee like Jeff Gravitt's to attend your next meeting if this is an agenda item to discuss certainly number two enterprise fund slash Parking benefits district and maybe a little bit on signage. I certainly have been involved in downtown signage So we we can gather some information from the planning department on that So I'd be happy to have Jeff, you know see if we can coordinate schedules for Jeff to attend your next meeting If the chair would like this to be an agenda item So I have to look at the agenda to see when we might have time for this But I think what I'm hearing from my committee members is that we would like Jeff to attend to really delve into this parking benefits district transportation fund From the CRC non sort of financial, you know, obviously finance is gonna end up into this, but it's it's not really the finance it's It's the function of it Yeah, and then also is to signage some of the notes I had wrote Written in terms of and I think you'll probably be able to address this more and I can speak with you or Things like what's in progress you mentioned. There's there's already some downtown signage going on What's that look like? What's it intended to do? You know, what can be done on that? Whether signage is something that's beneficial done in this piecemeal manner as Dorothy was mentioning and then if we get the private quote public parking One of the things that when Steve was talking about that that hit into my mind was if we've got this coordinated signage and coordinated sign view and look if a Private lot owner decides to make their signs public is there a way we could somehow Regulate what those signs look like so that all parking signs are Similar uniform, you know, no matter whether it's privately owned public parking or publicly owned public parking and so some Some discussion of maybe that as it relates to the signage recommendation that we're gonna have to report on or Knowledge of what that might look like might be helpful Andy And I think that having Jeff tend would be great. I would not limit it to the two issues I would include all three issues The and actually it's interesting because the sentence in the report from Nelson I guard on the parking management leader Is parking management leader should be empowered to make decisions regarding parking management Negotiate shared parking agreements and other partnerships and lead parking communications and advocacy efforts So He might have done some thinking about subjects of like what a job description would be and how the negotiation takes place Since that the suggestion is that it fall within the Responsibilities of the whoever would be designated for this position on the other hand. He's really our leader in communications with the business community So it'd be very interesting to have his comments on all three And again out of respect for the chair, I would think we would want to invite Christine Ray Mullin as well. Yes, I can take care of both of those Anything else on this topic for now? well there's the whole question of parking has many aspects and Primarily it was talking about well It's a whole interlock system which was which goes into our residential streets as part of it and our in our discussion And Monday And some subsequent discussions as clear that there are parking problems all over Town particularly in the downtown area and that when talking with different members of the council with some of the staff everybody has a different idea and There is absolutely no Uniformity of opinion of what to do because this has not really been talked about in an organized manner and Part of the nightguard report did mention that it's a whole interlocking system. So there's a lot of reason that we have to Move ahead. There's a great community pressure to make some sense out of the parking plan. So I Would really like to see has come together on this and I think I think perhaps step one is Finding out who is a person that's going to be the one who knows it all because it turns out we've been working at opposites with each other We'd I'd meet with Paul and a committee of residents and The police chief and they would say oh no that suggestion doesn't work And then Lynn would meet with them and she would suggest another one that the others said wouldn't work because we had never really Talked about it amongst each other. So that we really do need to get some Get a plan at this point. I almost I do care what it is But it has to make sense and it has to fit in with other pieces. So it's a very important issue Yeah, so I will point out that the referral from the council was both the full study and the memo But that we had a requirement to report back in 90 days on the priority recommendations And so I will reiterate what I think I said at the town council meeting that will first deal with these three Get them off our table follow the referral comply with the referral and then What at this point and I'll have to go through the parking report again But you had the nice implementation Grid what we might want to do with that is once we've done this is figure out where each of those strategies Belongs in government. Does it belong in our committee? Does it belong in a different committee? Does it belong in an executive committee? Does it belong with an executive staffer or not and then come up with that sort of grid of recommendations to the town council of You referred the whole study we think these should be sent back to this person for Implementation or this group should be dealing with that or this and and go in with sort of a comprehensive to the town council Look that way Because some of it certainly will come back to us even if we say it needs to be with someone else first because It comes to the council for public permanent Public way change or fee change And then it would probably get referred to us. So that that's sort of where I am. Let's start with these three Fulfill that portion of our referral and then move on from that. I suspect parking will likely be At this study report or something dealing with parking in public way will likely be a regular Agenda item on this committee's agenda I'm not not every three months, but potentially every meeting for at least a 15 20 minute discussion of something and all So that that's where I see us going as as the chair any other thoughts on this for now so I'll work with Dave to Make sure we know exactly what we're looking for for the next time It's up which will likely be next meeting that and and I had promised at the beginning of this meeting that we would offer a public comment on This matter. There are no public here. So That is the offer of public comment That brings us to an action item. I didn't know where to put this in discussion or action I'm not sure it will actually take an action But as mentioned at the Town Council meeting on Monday night by George Ryan are the governance Legislation Committee chair. He has asked all the chairs of the standing committees of the council to Give him feedback for the governance organization legislation committee as it embarks on a Annual review of the Town Council committee structure I am a fairly new chair to this committee. I Obviously have potentially my own opinions on the charge of this committee, but I felt we should ask I should survey and Have a nice discussion of our entire committee on what we thought about this Charge our scope of charge Numbers of memory and anything about the charge in terms of as it relates to Town Council structure So the charge itself was referenced in our packet Everyone should in theory have a copy of it somewhere So so let's And hopefully we can have a nice discussion about the CRC committee as it relates to Essentially committee structure in Town Council and our thoughts on the charge itself So that to interpret that that would mean are there parts that we should do that are not here That we would take from another committee or parts that we think we should give to another committee Is that it that that would certainly be part of the discussion if we think it's overbroad not broad enough to include Not all of that but also potentially number of members number of liaisons To anything about the charge, but I think the bulk of our discussion should sort of be about Sort of the responsibilities of the charge So I have most of what's here. We've just already been talking about today Planning zoning land use master plan Community and economic development including arts and culture. We didn't do arts and culture But that's on our agenda at some point housing mix housing affordability neighborhoods Well, I guess I don't see parking anywhere here, but Public ways, okay The one that I'm looking at that. I'm thinking that we we haven't been bombarded with recently is Policies regarding the relationship between the town and Amherst institutions of higher education So I'm just bringing this up for discussion Because the rest of it is about land public ways public resources housing homelessness business economy quality of life and That's the one that's a little bit different Now is that something then that you think in Having worked with this committee and been on the committee for about six months now I think is when this charge was adopted March. Yeah Little over six months now that Might be an outlier and something that should be removed from the charge I'm asking I'm saying I can't see giving away any of the others Okay, because that's really kind of what we do and what we have been doing But I'm just really asking you and Andy what you think about that Andy hesitant to take it out even if we're not actively working on it at the moment because it's such an important issue to the community and We don't want it to be homeless itself and So I And I don't know what the vision is yet and I think that that's something that Needs to need some further discussion is for example, I know The negotiations are continuing with the University about in this strategic partnership agreement and That's really an executive function, but should be reported back to the council and so What is the process that? Is envisioned to whether it should that we will then First take place in committee and then before going to the council or go directly to the council maybe the Chair his vice president of the council needs to consult with the president on what her vision is of that That's certainly the one that's on Rise and most readily There's so much of what we do that relates so strongly to the University that it's really hard to Say that it belongs entirely in any one place But I don't want to not have it listed for some committee and this seems to be the most logical one That was actually going to be my question. Is this the most logical one for that as Dorothy said It seems to be the outlier of sort of the rest of the list on Section a of the charge and the review make recommendations that you've got housing You've got a lot of stuff that relates to Land use and develop, you know planning and then you've got this relationship as they say it the relationship policies regarding the relationship Is that something that potentially? I mean, I I'm now of the three GLL members on this committee. I'm the only one left here but governance and organization has the third charge relates to Internal governance, but governance around the town governance You could potentially make an argument that this one policies related to the relationship between the town and the institutions of higher education Could potentially be moved into that committee as sort of related to governing as I'm just imagining any discussion That might be had on any particular potential partnership agreements or anything like that would relate more around to government services and government structure and potentially funding different You know things that All the funding could potentially fall within finance, but it could also fall within sort of the governance portion of You know the GLL charge Rather than what that discussion might look like here and so that's something we could potentially recommend is remove that portion out to a different committee so as I was Listening to you. I think that that in terms of the agreement I think that that doesn't really quite belong in our committee, but when we talk about land use housing Homelessness arts and culture. In fact, we're coming up against the university needing to be working with involving but not in terms of the Plan and relationship between the university, but I mean for example the new public-private partnership Dormitory that's going to be built by the university impinges on my district very strongly. So that's the way in which you know how Housing policy is affected by the student population that belongs in our committee So many things to do with the university It was just the wording of this which seemed to be more the agreement which as I think Maybe that might be better in GLL, but we do need a sentence in here Just like you say, you know sustainability has to be everywhere. Well for CRC the university is And our relationship or how it impacts maybe the word impact it has to be in here just so I would really just suggest a Rewarding of that because yes, all these things that we're doing we do have to Deal with the university, but it's piecemeal the way we would be doing in CRC not the big Relationship though Andy you may disagree with me on that Think about all of the different things that we have done that involve relationships The university and it really is large because it's such a big piece having been Former select board member who serves on the campus and community coalition Which is now being undertaken on a less formal basis by George Ryan the You know the kinds of things we would discuss there really get into the Issues that are very much The effect of the student population on our neighborhoods and That's where The that coalition and its work has come about and some of the things that we have done over the years of Creating the nuisance house by-law and the rental registration program and other things Some of that arose through the campus and community coalition to try and address what was Agreed to his mutual problems And they've really you know to the extent that their problems those is because they need to be strengthened in some fashion and So it's a these are Complex issues, but they really do bridge very much on things that we talk about within this committee and How to define the pieces that belong where Becomes difficult, so I'm not sure I have an easy answer so the question I have you know I is This is a lot, you know, I look at this charge and I go with We as a council when we take up any measure Almost all of it needs to come to this committee based on this charge. There's really nothing from a Policy viewpoint that this charge doesn't encompass There's been a few policy writings But but in terms of if a policy is proposed or if a measure is proposed you can almost always find a Relationship to planning zoning land use public ways public resources housing homelessness Higher ed institutions master plan local economy. I mean that's that's you're always it is to me I look at that and I go is This really the only committee of the council that should be dealing with Sort of recommendations on and and delving into the effects on the town of pretty much policy and That's right now the way I read this charge is this is the only committee Well that any any delving into effects on that of the town on a policy that is proposed or a measure that is proposed This is the committee it comes to that's a to me a huge charge But a huge burden potentially on the members of this committee, whoever they end up being being the sole sort of group that Does that initial evaluation? Not only a burden on the five members, but it also as I think we've seen in town council creates a Potential, you know tension between those that are on this committee that are getting to have those Big discussions on a regular basis versus those that are not that get that discussion presented to them at a town council meeting for the final sort of brief discussion and Is is this something that you know, it's always hard maybe to give up that that sort of Desire, but is this something that maybe would be better and I don't know what that split would look like, but would it be potentially better for the council as a whole to Figure out or recommend, you know have a two committees that actually delve into sort of those impacts on the town matters What that split might look like if we were to recommend that or at least mention that as a potential Concern of this committee that it is so comprehensive. I don't know But I'd like thoughts on that because as chair I can say when when we have say that downtown parking Can we get it on the next agenda? And I'm like at the agenda I've we've already got five or six huge referrals sitting on us that each could Probably take two hours of discussion minimum at any one meeting to then figure out how to Do that is is stressful. I will say so I think that the the really the Major thing about this committee is that you cannot talk about housing business and parking In separate committees because it's our task to try to they're all so interwoven. We have to do them together So in terms of the I think that that we could the university impacts what we do, but the Relationship that's formally done, which we don't know any details about this the ongoing process now between the town and the university That's not what how we relate to the university in The daily weekly analysis of these problems. I mean, of course, it's part of it But I don't think we should be I don't I think that's something that negotiating that Doesn't need to be in this committee, but I don't want to separate business Parking land use and housing because you have to look at all of them together But I mean for example the the problem on In my district you look and you say okay, we've got bicycle lanes. That's got to do with sustainability It's got to do with who's biking. It has to do with it's the main road Lincoln and main road going to the campus It's where students how students are interspersed within our community how we deal with that These are these are big issues, and I think that CRC is the right place to deal with it It is a challenge but so I really would hate to say well, let's give economic development to someplace else because the Housing homes community neighborhood and business have got to be dealt with in a cohesive way We luckily don't have to solve any of these problems We just have to make recommendations and then the council can thrash it out handy I think that we need to go back to the top sentence their review and make recommendations to the council on matters referred to the CRC regarding and Going to some of the things that we've talked about in this conversation Whether it be a change in parking on Lincoln Avenue, whether it be a modification of the nuisance house bylaw whether it be the new Renegotiated strategic partnership agreement Those aren't things that we're spending time trying to create the process we're it's a recognition that If something is going to come before the council that Some committee needs to take ownership overtaking some time to think it through and make a recommendation And I think that if you sort of understand that and look at it from that perspective It's a little less daunting and if you think that we own the issue and have to be the creators of the change I don't know that that's really what was intended So I will just point out to then number D on the second page that Allows us to be the creators Right it says we may offer policy and other recommendations within our part that it's purview CRC purview for town council discussion and consideration so Obviously given a We likely won't have time to do D Because a is so comprehensive and I guess that's where my concern comes in is that a is so Comprehensive because the nearly anything that comes in front of the council you can make an argument should get referred to CRC for recommendations that does not necessarily allow time for this committee to identify a problem Discuss it consider it and then make on its own a recommendation on that identification We become much more of just a reactive committee and maybe that's what this committee wants to be But the question is if we want to be both a reactive and a proactive committee That's I guess where I see this charge as being too comprehensive on the matters we deal with so thoughts on that Well, I like the word may That was put in there. I didn't write this But it was put in there because there may come a time when this is something we want to do but as you point out We're not gonna have much time to do that But I think leave it in we will be spending most of our time on other things, but I'd hate to take it out Andy, yeah, maybe the way what we really need to be reporting back is Just what we're getting at it's very broad and that We don't Know that we are going to be in a position to really offer policy and other recommendations in each of these areas and because they're so broad and that If to well feels that there needs to be a body that is actually Engaged in creating recommendations for change To put that exclusively in the responsibility of this committee with such so many different areas D is really where the may be our largest concern is It's easy to it's easier to react to a specific recommendation These three things have been proposed by the downtown parking working group look at them then take ownership Deal with the entire parking system as a whole So we can recommend that we a position be created To deal with the parking system as a whole and we can be supportive and send information and questions to that person So that our role would be to deal with it by in a way moving that out of us And I think that's a good idea. I don't think we want to be the weekly parking parking committee But right now we don't have we just don't have a coherent policy So it's that has to be dealt with So I want to delve into what Andy just said about Maybe the issue is D and not a What would splitting D out to multiple committees look like? You know, I guess I'm having a hard time wording this because if you split D out and say all committees have the ability to make recommendations and offer and what's the wording offer policy and other Recommendations for the town council discussion and consideration but if you're gonna say within its purview and we're the only committee that has that purview To me they're they're they're combined if you're if you want the proactive But the proactive to only come out of the committee that deals with the reactive on the regular basis How do you split D out of our charge without? Limiting our charge a little bit and pushing some of that to some other committee So that's that's I'd love to hear your thoughts on that I think that this may be the GLL discussion that it needs to have because What it really comes down to is is that? It put a lot of things on this committee and we can be reactive to things that are specifically referred to us, but to take that Leadership role in creating discussion and consideration of policy On all of these different areas is probably not realistic on the other hand GLL's problem is is that creating an additional committee is not exactly an easy solution either because in the And there's only as my number of counselors as exists and That we are all overtaxed as it is and I think that that's really a Significant issue that we as a council need to at some point deal with as to how we make This function well and at the same time not burden Individual counselors to such a great extent that nobody's ever going to run for this job again in two years and That we end up with Council that is going to be people who The community May not find just doing the right people because we've created an unbearable position. I think That's really what we're struggling with as a council as a whole and I think GLL By undertaking the review of the committees Really does I appreciate they're taking it on but that's where the crux of it is So let me we're almost out of time here So I want to go back to just mention this and ask thoughts Because I know it had been brought to the council at one point specifically for this committee, which is the size of our committee Do we have any recommendations regarding size in terms of reduce increase not that? having been operating for a while and thoughts oh There were discussions on this and I can't recreate them all but I'm trying to prompt Andy's mind and It was that if we got bigger Somehow we'd be too much of the council. It was there was we had a lot of discussion about this and Therefore it was decided that we should not get bigger because it all had to do with Okay, so there's if there's five of us. Is that right? Yes, and is there a committee that's bigger than five no, but I think that the answer was that We're at five if you go to six then you have an even number and The question is do you risk tie votes? Probably not in any Frequent basis though that happened if you get to seven you get to it then your quorum of the council And does every meeting have to be posted as a council meeting also? and so you have Significant issues when you start creating committees that in the themselves constitute a quorum of the council and That's where the five ultimately comes into is it's the lowest odd number that is below seven and And there's there was pressure because there's some people who had wanted to join the committee too and then there was it was gonna End up that the committee membership was gonna overlap the finance committee membership too much and so Although there was some unhappiness we ended up saying it's better just to stay the way we are I just wanted to make sure I can convey whatever that size is since I knew there was a discussion there And I was not part of that so okay, so we're not recommending any change in the number And I will convey the rest of this discussion as best I can Pat was not here today. I asked her for her opinion. I was checking my email to see if She had some I've not heard back so because I did not want to miss her I had forgotten Steve was gonna leave earlier. I would have done the same He does sit on GOL so as this discusses multiple times in GOL He'll be able to weigh in Pat does too, but I still would have asked George So I think George Steve and so yeah, that's what I'll do I thank you all for your input and thoughts on that It is very helpful as we will go into a GOL discussion on committees with that Is there any item not anticipated by anyone Dorothy? I just want to ask Dave our font of wisdom if there is something that we should be thinking about or Something that's coming up. That's gonna be important. I mean it's true our minds are overfull Looking in my crystal ball. Are you saying I? I really think What I was just re-reading a minute ago all the things that have been referred to CRC and and that are kind of pending and Upcoming at our December 4th meeting and then subsequent meetings. So I Think You're your your your card is full I think this master plan discussion is very very important just referring back to something Mandy said an hour and a half ago We're looking at the master plan Process whatever that whatever that is decided to be in relation to zoning so at some point CRC will need to kind of engage with the planning board in the zoning subcommittee on zoning So that's that's one thing that's on my crystal ball that Mandy and I have been talking about So I that's the one thing I would add it's very very important Is zoning Mentioned here Yes, it is planning zoning and land use policies and and we did the the the twin to the direction to Work jointly with the planning board on updating and adopting the master plan Was a direction to work with the planning board to recommend a plan for approaching zoning by law revisions That was was done last night not last night Monday night as a direction to CRC So it will it was not something I wanted to deal with the planning board the master plan portion Before we get to the zoning portion of that So that's why but that is one of the referrals that we're sitting on right now right now by my count We have one two three four five six outstanding referrals We sent a seventh the housing priorities policy back to the council and have completed work on that one So we're gonna work through them my guess is more might be coming As as things move on but but we're sitting at six right now And I'm trying to juggle those So with that Anything else Andy? Yes. Oh, no nothing. Okay, so with that we are going to adjourn at 10 22 in the morning