 Good morning and welcome to this week's edition of Encompass Live. I am your host, Krista Burns, here at the Nebraska Library Commission. Encompass Live is the commission's weekly online event. Yes, we are a webinar. You can call us that. We won't be offended. Where we cover anything that may be of interest to librarians. We do these sessions live every Wednesday morning at 10 a.m. central time, but they are recorded. So if you're unable to join us on Wednesday mornings, that's fine. We have all the recordings of all of our shows available on our websites. You can go back and watch them at your convenience. We do a mixture of things here. Presentations, interviews, mini training sessions, book reviews, whatever is anything related to libraries, we want to have it on the show to share. And we have Nebraska Library Commission staff sometimes presentations and we also have guest speakers sometimes, which is what we have this morning. Excuse me. This morning on the line with us is Jason Clark. Hi, Jason. Hey, how are you? Good, we're doing good here. And he is on the line with us remotely from Montana. As you can see right there, Montana State University Library, where he's their head of digital access and web services. And he is going to tell us about search engine optimization, a CO specifically for libraries and how we can get our libraries out there more in people's faces, I would guess I would say to be blunt. They can share that we're coming up when people are looking for their information. So I am just going to hand over to you, Jason, to go ahead and take it away. Okay. Well, thanks, Krista. And thank you, Michael, for the opportunity to guest speaker here. I'm excited about this topic because it's been a pattern, a threat of my research for probably the last year and a half to two years. It's really picked up as a new dean has come into our library with this agenda specifically. So that's me. I'm head of digital access and web services, which is basically building the digital branch for our library organization, which includes web apps, mobile stuff, digital collections, that whole kind of everything like that is in my bucket. I did want to sort of hinted at this, but there's a huge, there's been a shift. We had been interested in SEO sort of peripherally. And I'm saying we, Scott, we see the first gentleman there with the rainbow coming out of his head. And then I'm the second gentleman. We have been peripherally interested in this stuff. But we had a new dean named Kenny Arlish, who's one of his primary research threats is this idea of search engine optimization and the ability to create indexable content for library type materials. His partner, Patrick O'Brien, which is the third person, see the gentleman, third in line here is our semantic web research director at Montana State University Library. And I just want to tip my hat to this group in particular, because the work that I'm presenting is, you know, it can be called and aggregated from a lot of different sources and it certainly has. But the efforts of Patrick and Kenny and their sponsorship of this research has really brought it forward to an indexable where we're ready to present some of our ideas like what you're going to see today. I pushed this through already. There's just logistically, I have a pinboard account. That's me. And there's a tag there called lib SEO. So the URLs that we talk about today are collated there. And if we come up with other URLs that we want to collect there, I will put them there. So you just watch that URL. It's dynamic and it'll continue to be a resource long after the session today is done. If you do want to catch me today in particular, I'm fairly active on Twitter, not as much lately just due to management things, activities. But if you tag something with lib SEO, a hashtag, I will pick up the conversation in there and then we can kind of do it. It'll be a public forum for a continuation of our discussion today. So I'm going to talk over what you see on the page. This is a quick agenda. I have about an hour. And I do want to say that you can see the efforts that we're starting to put into this. This is something that I think this is an introductory process that I'm giving you. But there's just lots of research and the practice, the act of SEO is search engine optimization requires some resources to really do it right. So I just want to make that clear as far as framing this discussion today. So we'll make sure it's defined. We'll look at the various definitions of what's good SEO or bad SEO. That's the black hat versus white hat distinction. We'll try and talk through a quick business case for why you would do SEO. I assume we have a number of people in here today, so there's some interest in it. But you also may have to make a case to different people who have never heard of SEO. And so we'll try to talk through a little bit of that. And then the bulk of the second part will be the sort of rudimentary, where do you start with SEO techniques? And then I'll try to allow time for questions. We might shorten that a bit. If you do have questions over as we're talking, please just let me know. So this is the definition. Let's let you guys read it. I think the core definition there is that idea of creating indexable, and crawlable content. Notice I didn't say users in this case. I will sometimes talk about users, but this is primarily a machine readable act. We're trying to do is allow the spiders, robots to come in and learn and then index, learn about our library content and then index our library content so that can be displayed in search engine result pages. So I just want to get this out of the way very quickly. Who's sort of, I mean, people are in here, they've heard of SEO, but who's sort of had this attitude or heard this attitude related to SEO? Anybody? Just a quick note in the... If anybody, you can use the question section to comment about this. Or just in the comments. Yeah. Either way. Or on Twitter, either way, yeah. Yeah, this is obviously a huge thing. Right, because this is sort of this. Figure it out, yeah. This idea of, and this is one of the first things you'll have to sort of make an argument around is that there's good ways to do it and then there's unsavory ways, let's say. And the part of this quote, this is a comment on, I think, the history of SEO presentation. Gaming the algorithm and outsmarting Google, that's not our goal. That's not our goal with any of the procedures and the techniques we're going to talk about. So the other thing you sort of get from this idea is this, SEO is snake oil, it's an arms race. You're trying to stay ahead of things and you are trying to game the system. That, again, that's not our goal. What we're trying to do is create useful ways to allow indexable content. And even vetted and refereed and accepted ways of doing that. So just to give you a sense, there's a sort of distinction, black hat versus white hat. We're going to look at white hat SEO. This is typically, and if you look at the bullet points here, this is the sort of activity where people would say, that's negative SEO, right? And this is where we get that sort of snake oil salesman, the spam emails, who's had a spam email that said, I've checked your page rank and it looks like you're not even within the top 10, within your market, within your industry. I can help you do that. I can get you on the first landing page of search engine results in Google. That sort of thing is where the bad reputation for SEO comes from. So again, we're going to do white hat SEO. And you'll notice that the links I share, what I point to, I'm looking at stuff like Bing's Webmaster guidelines, Google's Webmaster guidelines, tools that tell us what are the accepted techniques, what are the ways that you build indexable content. I just want to make sure people are okay. I am going to be, again, when we talk machine readable, it'll be looking like the sort of bottom of this. You have this display in the browser, which is the top screen, the bottom with the one, two, three, four. That's the HTML. Typically, the pieces that I talk about are going to be about page elements, document elements and markup that we put onto a page. It's one of the common ways of making sure your content is readable and indexable. So everybody's pretty familiar with that. I don't want to surprise anybody with some HTML. So working through that, we sort of find it. We've kind of worked through what it means to do good SEO versus bad SEO. Now we're kind of, why should we do this? What is the business case for this type of activity? And the very simple answer for a lot of us is this kind of sentiment. So this was 2007. Lorcan Dempsey, the VP and Chief Strategist at OCLC wrote this on his blog. The blog is linked right there. But behind that sort of sentiment is this idea that our websites are places that people go, but they're not necessarily the only place discovery happens. In fact, they're not even the primary place that discovery happens. So given that kind of sentiment, I can show you, so just bear with me as I, this is the sort of interface that we're working through, right? So I type in NASA, I get NASA's activities. I even get, if you notice down at the bottom, I get a search nasa.gov. So it's interesting to watch how these search engine result pages can actually become the discovery layer. And even in our setting, in my setting, the typical college professor, college student, uses this as one of their primary interfaces to scholarly material, Google Scholar. And as I was talking about, take a look at the, so there's a couple perceptions papers from 2010, also from OCLC. So there's the full, the full link is down there and then there's college students because that's my context. But if you read this, you get a sense of what we're talking about when we say how important this, the search engines are as discovery layers. So 93%, 93% of our users going through search engine result pages to find, at least initially to find their things. And sometimes it doesn't even go much further than that, right? If it's not within that first result set, that search may, may not continue. And if you take a look, this report is really a wonderful resource. So take a look at those URLs. I'm not sure if I put them in the link role, but I will. I'll get them into our delicious account too. So our focus to, okay, okay, great. So our focus today will really be more on these sort of baseline techniques. And what we'll look at are things like keyword analysis, how to write titles and descriptions, how do you make crawlable content, I would say? I'm making up words as I go along here, so I don't mind. Then looking at what our indexes look like, because once you get your pages inside of Google's index, there may be some pruning, cleaning, winnowing that you need to do to make sure that you're just surfacing the pages that you need. And I'll show you that a little bit. And then I'll also introduce a little bit about semantic markup that can help our pages be even more help bots understand them in a categorical way instead of just as a simple p-tag or something like that. And I'll unpack that in a little bit. But these are sort of the baseline techniques. And as I said, this is tip of the iceberg stuff. I mean, this is kind of a place to start with it. But as you get more and more into the research, you realize that it's, there's even more you can do besides this. But as sort of a baseline, this is a great place to start with some of these concepts and these techniques. So what I'm going to show you is actually, what thing you do is you look at and you consider what makes sense for your, and I'm going to speak in market terms, because we work in an industry, an information industry. But there are certain vocabularies, certain keywords associated with that market or with that industry. So part of our first foray into SEO is looking through and deciding on what makes sense for our keywords. How do we want to be found? How do we want to be described? This is a different question than we've typically been asking. Usually we've been focusing on display and how do we make a category that appeals or that makes sense to a user. I mean, if you think about our information architecture and the way our usability in libraries has sort of been structured, it's been focusing on that. What we're going to do in this case is look at how do we want to be interpreted? How do we want to be defined in a broader commercial search engine setting? I'm actually going to jump out here because I'm going to go to the Google AdWords account and go to the keyword planner so you can kind of see what I'm talking about. So just bear with me as I move outside. And if I get there and you can't see it, please let me know before I start talking, talking, talking, and you're going, I can't, Jason, I can't see anything you're talking about. Load this one up. Yep, not a problem. We can see everything you're doing. Okay, so this is stuff related to you. That's fine. I'm going to log out of this. It's funny. I have so many accounts, but I have to log out of this one to get to AdWords and come in as a different Jason. So once you register, what you do is you register an account with AdWords. There used to be a free and open tool. It is still free. You just need to associate a Google account with your AdWords. They're starting to create a broader tool around the AdWords service. So for instance, in this case, when we're talking about keyword announced, we're thinking through what would it mean to do library, library information. So the first part of this tool tells you where, what are some common sort of facets of ad groups, which is interesting. You can kind of see where, how the, how the index sort of understands what library and information science is. And then if you go further to the second tab, you can actually see what the actual keywords that are part of the Google query index to get a sense of where, how often things are searched is the competition high for that one. The Ad, the cost per click is for whether or not it's worth purchasing. So you could have been seated results, the results that appear in the top right of Google currently. But this is the sort of idea around how you would start with keyword analysis. And you want to do this early just so you get a sense of how you'll see as it trickles down in the other stages of these baseline techniques. What are the common words that we want to sort of bring into our web copy, into our titles, into our page descriptions? How competitive are they? This is sort of environmental scan of what's out there. And you could do this with just about any sort of, I mean like if you were a children's library and you could do early, and you wanted your pages to do literacy, right? You could, you could run the same sort of search that, and then you would, you would come up with ideas for how you would tag some of your children's programs, pages, right? In this case. These are the ones that, you know, when you're high or medium, these are the ones that people are using that they're expecting to find things that are resources that would relate to these concepts. Okay, so the easiest way to do that is to use this tool. It used to be just outside of AdWords. Now it's inside, so you just take your Google account associated with AdWords and you can pull in, you can get access to all these sort of keyword analysis. Once you've done that, then you start to think about how do you incorporate what you've learned from your analysis into what I'm calling web copy. And web copy could be, you know, text on the page that you actually see, but more frequently it is within these, these type of HTML tags. So there's a title tag that sits at the, in the head of every document. There's also a meta-named description tag. And inside of that content, you start, if you think about it, that's those are the two pieces that appear in search engine result pages, right? You have your, well, basically there's three things that appear there. There's a page title, title, URL, and page description. So you think about it. Those pieces have to be communicated very clearly what, what your thing is, what your thing is about, what your pages are. And so what that does is it asks us to be really cognizant of what we put in there and how we structure the descriptions for all of this content. So for instance, if you think through this, best practice is sort of for, for title of, of web pages or titles of applications or documents. If you, if you kind of get the idea of that, it's the, you have a keyword phrase. You don't necessarily have the, the quotes. What I'm saying is there's sort of this keyword phrase. And then there's context that you provide in the second piece of the title. So if you look at that example, what I'm doing here is I'm identifying words that are used and understood. So what I'm doing is staff directory and people listing. So they're two different sort of posts or ways to understand or create query hits off of those, those two, the keyword phrase itself, right? Because somebody could say library people, somebody could say staff directory, right? It can kind of go all over the place. And then the context is Montana State University MSU library. And note the, the way that that is structured in that there's Montana State University library. If somebody searches for just that without MSU, that's a hit. And then if they also search for MSU library, there's a hit right in, in the title. Okay, so it's this sort of thinking about how do you write this? How do we write for, for indexing, right? And for quick scan inside of a search engine result page. Does that make any sense so far? Yes, it is to me. And I should probably say too, I don't, I know probably literally nothing about how to do this. I know that it's something important to do and that you want to make sure you have the right, we do this in our web pages here at the commission sort of to a small extent. Mainly I've done it as thinking off the top of my head what might be a good word to put in there to search. But using that gaggle, Google AdWords is very cool I thought. I need to remember that trick. I'm sure it's linked up. I think I linked up the keyword planner, but I'll make sure that it is. Does everybody understand what I mean by title tag? That's that HTML tag? We'll kind of take a look at that a little later. I'm not sure if it's something you mentioned. Someone wants to know what is the average cost per click? Average cost per click. Oh, average CPC. Is that what that means, cost per click? That column is okay. That's if you wanted to get a sponsored result. You're on a search result page. And it comes up in that, maybe it's the first couple results that everybody scans by. It doesn't actually click on. That's what it would cost for you to get surfaced in a result for early child development. That's really high. If you wanted to pay for them to do that. The pay route. That's what AdWords is really about. Organic, you can use it for organic. White hat SEO. There's nothing wrong. I shouldn't say pay is not white hat SEO. It's a viable way to get into search results. But we're not focusing on the cost option, the pay option in this session. Okay, thank you. So I just wanted to, did the, if you notice this, here's a title tag. I'll just open this up so you can see. This is what I'm talking about. There's also, there are meta tags and here's the meta name description. Which I'm going to talk about in a second. Just so you understand where it fits into the web market, the page itself. That's the piece that's going to get indexed. So the same sort of thing would happen with, you know, you've done your keyword analysis. You're starting to think through, so you're incorporating your keywords as you laid it out in your title. You want to sort of create complementary links between the keywords that you're using in your title and the stuff you're using in the description. So you notice here I have listing, staff, Montana State MSC library, library departments, roles, job titles, phone numbers, and contact information. So that's a strong description of a staff directory landing page. And it does have links up into, you know, it links concepts from the title and pulls them out and explicates them in the description as well. Okay, so along with this, you have a, this is more of a, let me just make sure. The next step is making sure that the sort of, the directories of your site are, can be actually crawled or followed. And what I mean by this is if you think about something like, go back to Scott. Okay, this one kind of makes sense because we've got a base URL. That's inside, then there's a directory called people, and then there's an about inside of there with Scott's information inside. So one of the things you want is that trajectory of folders inside of your website to sort of describe the hierarchy of your website. That helps the robots understand the sort of, the index and the crawl and the relationships between your different pieces of your site. Okay, so that's kind of what I'm talking about with this piece of the slide. The, if you're familiar, breadcrum type links are another thing that allows them. So every page has a sort of hierarchy built into it that the index, the robot can kind of understand that, you know, this is part of a resources page and this is the nursing resources. So you can see right here this kind of architecture onto the page, right? So there's a classification on the page itself. That's what I mean by the sort of simple crawlable markup. So you've got directory structures that sort of explicate what's going on, and then you've got links on a page that allow you to get to and from. And also define the categories, the relationships between the pages. You notice I put that quote on there. Every page should be reachable from at least one static text link. The webmasters, a lot of the documentation is linked in the link role itself. But those, the webmaster guidelines are really where I've called a lot of the information that you see related to the talk today. The other thing to do is actually create a machine readable site map. So this is all the pages that you want to be indexed and the index priorities for those pages. Google uses site map protocol, 0.9. I'll show you what one of those looks like. So if you look at, so what this is, this is a list of all the important pages from this digital collection. And you can see what it does is it gives you a URL location when it was last modified. This was actually today. How often does it change? And then you give each URL a priority. And you can see this is just a basic, there's nothing, this is behind the scenes, right? It's just XML. But what you do is you create this and then you go into something like webmaster tools and you register your site and you let them know that this site map exists. And then they start to build an index around. So along with the two pieces you've got that sort of breadcrum and directory stuff on the front of your pages. But then you've got this back end machine readable XML file, site map, that also identifies what pieces of the site need to be indexed. And actually there's a link in the link role to, there's an online utility that you can pitch your URL to it. Like the base domain of your library and it'll walk through and build up a sample site map for you. So you don't have to do this yourself. You might modify that, but you would, there is at least a utility to get you going. So once you, you've kind of gone through those first couple of steps, right? Keyboard analysis, you've started to structure your site in the right way. You've built a list of suggested pages within your site map. Now what you can start to do is analyze what's in the index. So at this point you've allowed robots in to come and figure out what pieces of your site index. So now you can start to analyze where, where are things right, where are things wrong. Let me show you what I mean by this. This is an in process digital collection. So if I do site, the site, if you know the site qualifier for, so we've knocked this down. I don't have a screenshot of it, but initially it was in the 10,000 level of results. Here's the thing. I know that within this finding aid, we have about 489 finding aids total. So even if you round up and say, every, every one of those finding aids should be listed. And you need the about page from the digital collection and the index page from the digital collection. That only puts us at 491. So this, this index is wonderfully bloated, right? And this is what we're, you know, we've, I'll show you a couple of things we've done to kind of get it down to this. It's going to be, by the time this is done, we should have about, oh, you know, 491 results for this type of site search. So if you're familiar with that site qualifier, you just put, you put your base URL and I'll, I'll drop it so you guys can see it. You put your base URL in and then you, you'll get a document account, essentially a result account. But what you can start to see in here is if I, I know stuff like our dynamic pages search, we do search. This is where you get a sense of, so what, when I type that, do you see we had 4,000 hits? This one file, search.php is duplicating 3200 results. So this is the sort of, these dynamic pages are the ones where you go, okay, that's not, like, there's no need for me to let the robots go away. The robots go in and find out what, to, to spider every search result, right? I have a core set of things that need to be in the index, the about page, a landing page, a collection page, a home page, and then the 489 finding aid item level pages. That's it. So this is what I'm talking about when you, once you've got stuff and now you can start to analyze it and pick out the sort of, what I would call noisy files that are generating and polluting the index. So the next step for me is to go in and turn off the search pages so that that doesn't come out in the search engine result pages. Two techniques to do that. I'm going to go through them. So the first one is text file with a set of commands at the top level of your site. So in your base directory, you know, in our case it would be at the www.lib.mantana.edu, right? In there you drop robots.txt file. And this is a set of commands. It does, it can do lots of things. But it primarily says, yes, Mr. or Mrs. Robot, go and find this directory and you can index it. Otherwise you can allow indexing, you can do wildcard. In this case what you're seeing is this command is saying don't index the staff directory. Go into the finding aids only at the index page level and then also at the two variations of the index page level. For the mobile site of finding it. So it's just a way of sort of identifying that what you want to be indexed. So this one way of doing it, the other way of doing it is setting up different pieces of markup. You can see them there. So there's rel equals canonical, rel nofollow, and there's a meta tag that tells, if you put a meta tag, that last one on a page, the spider, a robot would not follow or index anything on that page. So you basically turn off pages using this kind of markup. If you didn't want somebody to follow this rel nofollow on a search results page with the new digital collection you put, the a link gets a rel of nofollow. If you wanted to identify, so one of the other problems with our particular site was that you'd get variations on a URL. Think about this, this would double your index. So we have a permalink that's part of our site maps that does this. That's the one we want in the index. But there's also, as you're working through our application, same page, right? Different URLs, same page, and it doubles your index. So what you do is you create a sign. And having those both come up in the search results will confuse and possibly annoy someone who's looking for the one page. They think they've got more results when really they haven't. A lot the same page I already got. Exactly. Oh, there it is. It is in there. What you do is you identify the page that you want in the index with this kind of tag. So that cuts our index in half as far as our instead of what's 4 to 89 plus 4 to 89. Let's say 900 links for item level pages. We only have 400 because I just disambiguated them. And again, I'm making up words. I just told the index that you don't need that PHP one with the ID. You don't worry about that. This is the URL you need to put into your index. This is more earlier, I would say edge case. But really what people are starting to introduce to help bots in search engines is what we're calling semantic tags and micro data. You can kind of understand that in Google's parlance, they call it rich snippets or structured data. But what it does is it allows you to add, so this is a perfect example, you add additional information into a page that is kind of behind the scenes and then can bring out new information into search results. I'll show you what I mean. But it's worth noting that in the browser display, this is before micro data and this is after micro data. Nothing changes, right? Nothing changes in the user display. But if you're looking behind the scenes, this would be an example of a non-semantic, I mean it's got some semantics. So you can kind of see it's a definition list, definition title. It looks like it's book data. But until we add stuff micro data, we don't get to a point where we can actually classify the item. So what I'm telling you, you don't see it on the front end, but in the back for the indexing, you get a whole new set of rich metadata, right? So you've got a scope that's identified. You can say that the stuff inside this DL is a book. Here's the title of that book. Here's the author of that book. There's the data. So you get all of this stuff now instead of a machine trying to even understand what the difference between the first DD is. Let me look at this. The first DD versus the second DD versus the third. There's no distinction between them. But now with this newer markup, you can get that in. So what you use is schema.org. It's basically a controlled vocabulary, a web classification vocabulary that Google Bing, Yahoo have all decided and standardized around. So what you get there is a way to properly describe your pages. Let me show you what that does. If you think about it, you can kind of test what you want to watch. So I ran the URL through here. And here's where you see, looks like I got it. We've identified the stuff on that page as a video object, which it is. We have a name and author. We have a date. We have a duration. We have keywords. We have an about section and a description. All that is mined from the very different pieces of that page. So here's where the item scope for that page was identified. That's within the markup. Again, nothing really changes on the front end. But what you see on the back is a more qualified, more defined page object, right? Thing, creative work, media object, video object. And then inside of that, you've got stuff like. Here's the item prop author. All that stuff is now machine readable. We do a question that you've been mentioning. What is the difference between metadata and microdata? Metadata is a broader term. Microdata is an HTML5. It's basically what you see on this page, but it's all metadata. If that makes sense. Microdata is the sort of practice of doing this encoded markup and using something like schema.org, that external vocabulary. Because that's where I get these. You can see if I go to this URL. And not actually this one. So basically the microdata is knowing how it works inside the web page. They're in the coding and basically gaming the system kind of to have it come up with and know what you want it to know. Yeah. That has to do with the game. Because it is viable. But you want to be careful. This is something that could blow up into that. If you remember, there were keyword stuffing problems a long time ago. Just stuff keywords into their meta tags. And that's another black hat SEO technique, which has largely fallen off. That's not really what's happening here, but you get a sense of. It shows you how to do the markup so that it can be classified in a semantic way for linked data or for other sort of subuses. And they are monitoring this pretty well. So hopeful that it wouldn't degenerate into what we talked about. The keyword stuffing. Yeah. The technology has actually improved that that doesn't work as well anymore. Now that we've got all this. Yes. And I haven't really touched on that here. I sort of mentioned an arms race with this stuff. And it is. I think the newest or the latest version of the algorithm is called Panda. And they come up with new revisions to how they're going to rank things and what is black hat SEO. So one example of this, as that keyword stuffing was happening, Google saw it, realized it was no longer valuable. They don't index meta keyword tags because they were abused. So it's that sort of correction that happens within the algorithms. That's why it's worth paying attention to white hat SEO and working through the sort of effective and vetted techniques that Google is suggesting or that Bing is suggesting. Because it is, like you said, there's a correction that happens. As the stuff, if it got abused, there could come a time where they'd say, oh, we can't use microdata anymore. Here's why. And so our newest algorithm, let's call it Baby Panda, doesn't pay attention to microdata anymore. That's something that if you're doing this research and you pay attention to, you change your routines according to whatever you're hearing. So there's a link to schema. So you should take a look at that just because it's worth knowing what that is and how you might do the markup. Again, this is early stages of it, and there's now studies related to what does schema.org and microdata markup give you in terms of search results. If you look at something like, here's one I did last night. Quoting working. So the example here is this microdata, the ability for us to see this stuff on the side here, that's largely based on something that Google mined off of the Wikipedia page but also Lorcan's weblog pages, potentially. Let's try one more. So here you can see we actually optimized our staff directory pages, and it's the first hit. And what you get is a bunch of different pieces of microdata. If I click in there, you can see it. The actual data, schema.org person, and then all these item prop, all that stuff is part of this work location, works for my telephone. So all that stuff gets surfaced. So it pulls it up into the little snippet there so people know right off the bat if you're the right guy they're looking for. So there can be really useful ways of doing this, especially when you think of library resources. One of our biggest resources is people. Connecting people with, you know, I would love to see somebody type in, here's a Humanities Jan Zouha Humanities. It's our Humanities Library. And she would be the first, you know, her picture would appear on the right and she would be the first person or first result. So the utility of microdata is definitely a hot topic of research related to SEO right now. Another tip of the hat, some of the stuff is coming out in the literature. Kenning and Patrick, whom I mentioned earlier, Kenning Arlish, my dean, and Patrick O'Brien have put this out earlier this last year about IRs, institutional repositories, and what they can do and how to get that stuff into, how to get indexing ratios of IRs into Google Scholar. And then there's also others. There's Diane Rasmussen and Daniel Ponyafo are also looking at this stuff. And there's a nice introduction to what just basic findability on the Web with library websites. So not focusing just on institutional repositories, but actually the other pieces of our website, like our standard Web site. So I just want to give another hat tip. And then if you're interested, there is a book written by Kenning and Patrick. It's kind of interesting. It's actually fascinating and wonderful to be in this, to have these sets of resources to be able to have Kenning and Patrick in the building. They actually wrote the book on SEO in libraries. So take a look at that if you're interested in a resource that can also get you up and running. Again, the stuff I've gone through today is kind of tip of the iceberg, right? Sort of baseline techniques for starting to do this stuff. But there's lots more, lots more to it. And if you're interested, there's lots of ways to start incorporating these techniques into your Web development, into your marketing for your library, and outreach for your library. So if you do have questions, feel free to find me here. It sounds like Chris is going to have, I'm going to send the PDF slides to her. So she'll have those. But you can also use that URL that's there to, there are other talks there. I also have code samples on my site. If you're interested in other things, poke around. And please do stay in touch if you do have questions. Great. Thank you very much, Jason. Does anybody have any other questions? You guys popped up with some throughout the show. We still have a few people left in line. Does anybody have any questions right now for Jason while we still have him here? And he said, yes, I'll have the presentation up. I've been putting up the links in our delicious account. And of course, this whole thing is being recorded as usual. So all of that will go up probably later this afternoon, and everyone will be notified when all that's available. We just have a few comments. Jason's saying, great. Thanks. Lots of good information in the show. Okay, great. Well, I'm happy to do it. Thanks for having me. Yeah, great. Thank you. There's a question. I'm not sure. The question from NLC staff says, full URLs for search optimization. Oh, where to have them somewhere on the site in the index? Where to have the full URLs for search optimization? Not really sure. The site map itself where it could live. Usually we put it in a directory with whatever application we're using. But it could live anywhere, potentially. You just need to let, once you register it with something like, submit it, you can submit it to Google or register it with Google Webmaster Tools. It just needs a URL. I tend to group it with an application. So for instance, if this resources app had a site map, I would, it doesn't, but it would sit at this level. So it would sit with the application itself that it was trying that you were indexing. Okay. I hope that answers the question. Sort of. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Thank you. All right. I think it is a little after 11. They said, yes, it does. Thank you. We will officially wrap it up. Yes. Thank you very much, Jason. Thank you, everyone, for attending. As I said, the show has been recorded. So we'll have that up later with all the information. And I did tweet out the contact, Jason, with if it has questions, using the hashtag, the LIBSEO, right, with what you were, yeah. Yep. The LIBSEO. I can put it back up so well. And so if anyone wants to, you know, you need more information, you want to know more about this. Because this is, as you said at the beginning, just an intro. There's a lot that you can get in more into with all this. Definitely, you know, he's doing research on this. We definitely want to talk to you and see what ideas you guys have, or if you have any questions about it. All the things that you mentioned have been added to our delicious and links to the articles that you mentioned, the book there. And plus, the link roll that you sent is all in there, too. So there's a lot of resources out there that you can guys can get even more information from to read up on it yourself. Okay. So thank you very much, Jason. I'm going to pull back the presenter control now here to my screen. Okay. Okay. Take care, everyone. Let's see here. There we are. Switch. There we go. And so thank you very much for attending this morning. And I hope you'll join us next week. Let's see if I have, there we go. Where we, our topic is genealogy resources for librarians. We have two people here who are joining us. I believe it's both of them, Judy Cook and Cindy Cochran, who are from our local Lincoln, Lancaster County Genealogical Society. And they've been doing some presentations. They've done it at other librarian meetings around the state. And so they're going to come on and CompassLive next week and talk to us about specifically resources that librarians can use if any of your patrons or users are doing genealogical research. So reach genealogical research. So hopefully they'll join us next week for that. And we are on Facebook and CompassLive is. So please do go ahead and like us there. We are a big Facebook user. We post when our new shows are starting. Any recordings are available. Everything is always put on here. So definitely do like us on Facebook if you are a big user there. And then that, thank you very much for attending. And we will see you next week on then CompassLive. Thanks.