 But loading that way, and here's the weird part, it doesn't seem to cause as much damage on the body. Like I recover faster with a higher intensity with the bands than I would with the weights, for example. So it's a really interesting way of adding intensity without causing too much more recovery necessity. And you see really how much stronger you are in certain parts of the lift. It's just very obvious. Like you said, you could increase that by like 100 pounds midway through, and you're able to complete that exercise. But yeah, I love working with them especially for all those sticking point reasons and to have the flexibility of moving the weight faster. Here's an advanced technique that actually can help almost anybody. It's progressive resistance. So you can use advanced techniques like chains to do this, or you can use resistance bands. Believe it or not, adding resistance bands to your normal exercises produces something called progressive resistance. And the strength and muscle adaptations tend to accelerate when you do this. Is this why all the bands are on the deadlift platform? Yeah, I saw that. So do you guys remember the first time you implemented this in your training and how it felt to you? Yeah, oh yeah. For me it was, I don't remember. What I was reading, I was reading something, I think it was a West Side Barbell Club and they used chains quite a bit in bands and they referred to it as learning from the Soviets. So I went back and looked at studies and I said, this is weird, because I always thought of bands as being like, second fiddle and kind of like, oh, this is nothing. And I remember adding bands to my deadlift and the feel I got from it was incredible and my strength gains accelerated dramatically from using bands and chains and now it's like a staple in my workout. Yeah, I remember I started off with like more fractional weights and so it was just like one little like a quarter weight plate that I would put on there and then like just- The magnet ones? Incrementally, yeah. And then you put those little, yeah, exactly. Those little like square magnets on the ends and it was interesting to work out like that. But then once I got introduced to rubber bands and chains and it was West Side Barbell that did that, it was like, oh wow, I can work on these sticking points especially with a squat too where I was having difficulty in the hole there but like now adding rubber bands so it gets more difficult as you come up was like game changer. The irony for me that West Side Barbell was one that made it really popular but it was introduced to me like through sports performance. So I thought it was like more of just like an athletic tool. Like if you were trying- Like speed training? Yes, speed training, explosive training and so I really didn't dabble with it till later. I didn't see the benefits of like strength and muscle until way later. Even though I know that West Side Barbell were the ones that really made that popular but I was, when I saw it, it was like athletes that were using it. I totally disregarded it because I, you know and this is bad on me, I didn't think about it. I saw it and just said, why would you add resistance with bands when you can just add weights? And I didn't think too much about it. And then there was, this was probably, I wanna say 10 years ago, I started to think about it a little bit and I said, wait a minute, the band becomes more challenging the further it stretches out. So if I put it on a deadlift, and let's say I have 200 pounds on the deadlift at the bottom, it's not adding much resistance at all you know, a few pounds. But as I pull up and the band stretches, the resistance gets heavier and heavier. Now, why is this a good thing? Because in a deadlift, I become stronger the more I straighten out. I'm obviously the weakest at the bottom, strongest at the top. And so one of the challenges with traditional weights is that the resistance stays the same the whole time but I'm stronger at the top. What if I want more resistance to the top and less resistance to the bottom to match my strength curve? Well, that's what the bands provided. And once I threw them on, oh my, it was a total game changer for me. Literally, I was at sticking points with my lifts and I saw them just blow through the roof because of it. Well, what you have to explain in regards to the strength curve, it literally takes an exercise that maybe you've been doing for a decade of your life and changes it. Totally. I mean, you get used to that same strength curve because it emulates that with free weights it's always gonna be the same. No matter how much weight you put on or take off, no matter what kind of barbell you use, I mean, that strength curve looks the same to your point. It's really, really difficult. We're talking about a deadlift, really difficult at the bottom. It's easier and easier as you get to the top. You simply flipping that on its head by putting bands on there and then actually the resistance gets harder as you get to the top. It changes the exercise. It's almost like it's a new exercise. And so imagine training a certain way or a certain exercise for years and years and then someone all of a sudden introducing these tools to you. It's like them introducing you to a new exercise that you've never used before. It is. Yeah, let's be honest though. We got, we found that because chains look cool. I mean, that's, I'm thinking back. I'm like, oh, whoa, what are they doing over there? It's like, that looks so cool. That's actually what I thought when I first saw chains. I thought it was just, oh, they're just trying to look cool for the camera. And so they're gonna lift something other than weights. Not, because with chains it's the same thing, right? As you lift the chain off the ground, a link comes off the ground and so the weight becomes progressively heavier. Now I will say this and because you may look at chains and bands and think, oh, it's all progressive resistance. It's all the same. It's not chains feel very different than bands and you can have a band tied at the bottom or a band assisted you at the top, which you think is the same because, oh, it's easier at the bottom. It's harder at the top, either if the bands are attached to the top or the bottom. No, it still feels very different. So there's lots of different ways. Smoother for sure. Yes, and then here's another more advanced way of using bands. I think I did this with you, Adam. You and I worked out once, early days. Pulling away with the deadlift. Yeah, I actually attached the bands at a slight angle, which made it so that the lockout was much more challenging because I'm pulling away from the bands and it changes the feel of the deadlift. Then when you took the bands off, it's like, you felt so strong. Well, I love that for the deadlift too, like for more acceleration. So I can work on that like decently heavy but then that lockout part to really emphasize like driving that force and power and that lockout. Yeah, so I just did a deadlift workout today and I'm re-implementing deadlifts and I think I'm gonna go for a PR at some point. Coming up, we'll see what happens. If my ego ends up getting me injured or not. But anyway, we have this really cool rack. I forgot the name of it, where you could put, and we bought these really thick bands. I don't know if you did this on purpose, Justin, but these bands are- They're super tight. They're ridiculously tight. It's almost impossible. They're super hard. And so I put a few of them on there at different stages, which is kind of cool. So this rack allows me to put bands here, bands here, bands here. So as I'm lifting, the resistance jumps up the higher I get. And I had 315 on the bar and I swore to God at the very end, when I had three stages of bands on, it fell at the top like 575. So it's like 315 and then I get up, up, up, and then I'm like, and it wants to rip the bar out of my hands. But loading that way, and here's the weird part, it doesn't seem to cause as much damage on the body. Like I recover faster with a higher intensity with the bands than I would with the weights, for example. So it's a really interesting way of adding intensity without causing too much more recovery necessity. And you see really how much stronger you are in certain parts of the lift. It's just very obvious. Like you said, you could increase that by like 100 pounds midway through and you're able to complete that exercise. But yeah, I love working with them especially for all those sticking point reasons and to have the flexibility of moving the weight faster. Did you guys, speaking of bands, did you guys use bands first for strength, progressive overloading, or did you guys use it for like distraction and like corrective type stuff first? Oh corrective first. I thought that's where the value was. You know, that's interesting because I mean, assist did stuff like for, with clients, I'd use it for like dips and for pull-ups. But in terms of like the band distraction stuff, I probably came to that after the performance side. So you were after performance? After, yeah. My experience with bands was I thought it was, oh, if you don't have equipment, you could use this. And then it was, oh, this is good for rehab because physical therapists, but often use bands. Kelly Starrett that introduced me to that. And then when I grand opened the 24 Fitness on Santa Teresa, the free weight and machine area were under construction but the cardio area was open. And so people were coming to work out and the trainers were like, well, how do we train people with resistance? And so, you know, I'm like, well, let's use body weight and bands. And then I saw people working out with the bands and these were clients that were beginner, intermediate, advanced and they started progressing really, really well to the point where a lot of the trainers kept a lot of bands in their sessions. Whereas at that point, you didn't see too much band training, but that was it. And then it was when I would read about West Side Barbell and that stuff. And that's when I- Yeah, you know, I'm trying to remember which one came first for me. I actually think I use band distraction for like corrective stuff more than I use bands for like progressively overloading. I think I've utilized that as a tool more than using it for strength. Did you guys use it the wrong way at first? Like I did with correction? Yeah, yeah. The very first time I did stuff, like when you, for example- Opposite, I did the opposite of what I'm supposed to do. Yeah, I remember that. That was early, early on. Yeah. Because I remember seeing that with, I remember that being like, for example, like somebody's knees collapsing in and then you were squeezing a basketball while they were- Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I just squeezed it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You emphasized the problem. Oh, I had a client whose knee would travel in. So I'd use the band to hold the leg out, which just gave him more resistance. Yeah, yeah. And I couldn't figure out- That's the same concept. What you did is exact same thing that I did with the basketball was squeezing in. You're making- Yeah, why is that confusing? It should be. It's like it holds in a place. So trainers know that would be, the opposite would be extremely valuable, right? So if you had, if you had a client, let's say their left knee caves in, when they do a squat, right? Or even a lunge, right? So every time they lunge, you see it caves in, then actually taking a band and anchoring it to the right, right? So they'll say it's a left knee when I lunge. So they have to actively push out. Yeah, so they have to actively push out so the band doesn't cave them in. That's actually a really good exercise to train them to activate that glute mead that helps open up that hip right there. Very effective. Very, very effective. Basic correctional exercise tool. And I apologize to all the clients that I did. The opposite. They literally would do the opposite. Like, oh, your knees are moving in. Let's put this ball there so they don't move into the work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just made shit worse. So, so terrible. But anyway, it was a, I love the feel of them. And again, I feel like I did, I must have done 10 sets. I just dead lifted for about an hour and 20 minutes with the bands and just moving them up and adding speed and stuff like that. And it doesn't feel nearly as taxing on me as if I did it with just heavy, less damaging. Now what's your theory on the adaptation process? Do you think the body adapts to it really fast? And so it's a tool that you can only use for kind of a little while before you need to move along from it. Do you think that you can incorporate it and stick with it in your routine for an extended period of time? Like what's your thoughts on that? Like right now you're using bands. Are you doing that one time to interrupt your training session? Or are you gonna keep that in there? Once a week. Okay. Yeah, I'll do it once a week or once every other week is what I'm gonna start doing. So like this. For how long before you probably drop them? Well, okay, so this is personal. What I mean by that is this is my own individual goal. So this may be different depending on the person, but I said to myself, because I went through a period of cutting because I did some photos for a program we're gonna release later on. And then I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna start eating a little more. And then I saw my strength go up. And I said, the most I've ever pulled off the ground was 600 pounds. I'm 43. It'd be great if I could do that again. Let's see how my body holds up. So I'm kind of like slowly moving that way. And so at the beginning of the week I pulled, I was doing singles with like 520, 530, which felt like I had another 20, 30 pounds. So it was a good workout weight. So that was Monday. So today's Friday. So I'm not gonna go put five plates on the bar and go heavy again. So I put 315, use bands to practice speed and whatever. So I'll probably keep something similar like that depending on how I feel. So I would do it for like a four week block consistently every week. And then I'd actually wanna drop them completely and see how that translates into my regular training. See if I got something out of it. Yeah, I tend to do, yeah, similar, but usually like a two week. And I used it as like a transition into like another adaptation I was going to like go in a different phase and attack something else. So especially if I was doing like, just more powerlifting, more like compound lifts and I'm trying to like press, closer to PR and max range. And then shift right before I get to my max, I'll shift and do like bands and chain work for like two weeks and then I'll kind of start over and do something else. Yeah, and I will say this just for me, like I enjoy the bodybuilding style of training, the hypertrophy, the pump, the feel. I also enjoy the strength and the way that that feels, but it's the strength stuff that I enjoy the most. Like when I do this, it's just so much more fun for me. And it makes me sad because that's the one that I'm gonna have to do less and less as I get older because I can't keep pushing weight as I get older. It's just not smart. The risk versus reward at this point doesn't make any more sense, but like today I did this workout and it's just, it's the most fun. It's the most, I could, it's like when I do that and I feel that and I feel the low reps and I feel the way it feels, I could care less about the pump in comparison, but I don't know. It's one of those things that kind of sucks. All right, everybody, the giveaway today is MAPS Prime. This is the program that gets you ready for your workouts. Whatever workout you're doing, if you set up properly with MAPS Prime, you'll be stronger, faster, better mobility and I get better recovery, okay? So you can get it for free, but here's how you can win. Leave a comment below in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode. Subscribe to this channel, turn on notifications. If you do all of those things, we'll let you know in the comment section that you won if we pick your comment and then you'll get free access to MAPS Prime. Also, we got a sale going on right now. We have bundled together multiple MAPS programs in different combinations for different goals, popular combinations. I think there's like 10 bundles available right now of two or three workout programs. Here's the best part. Every single bundle is only $99.99, okay? So go to mapsaugust.com and find the bundle or bundles that work best for you. And again, don't forget every single bundle, whether it's two or three programs, is only $99.99 and this sale is not lasting for long. It ends August 14th, so go check it out. Did you guys see that? Did I send you guys the video of the 27-year-old man? Okay, it brought me to tears, actually. It was actually, you don't see this very often. This 27-year-old dude was driving home and saw, this is true, saw a house on fire. Oh yeah. Okay, pulls over, pulls over. It gives me the chills. Pulls over, because there's no one there. No police, no nothing. He's a delivery guy, right? Nothing else, there was no one there helping, right? So he pulls over and he hears kids in the house. He runs in the house and saves each of these kids. Now, at the very, so after, I think he saved, It was like six or eight. It was like four or five kids, right? Gets to the, where are the parents? What's four or five kids? I don't know what the whole story is. In a burning house? In a burning, I don't know what the whole story is, okay? But there's video of this, because at the end, there's someone recording and then the fire department gets there and you see them running out. That's the part that made me, that brought me to tears. I have children, so it's just, if this guy saved my kids, I'm gonna tell you right now, I would take care of this guy for the rest of his life. Yeah, you're gonna saint them. Oh, so he runs in, saves each kid. Obviously house is just burst into flames. It's getting worse and worse. He gets like the third kid out, I think it was, because then they're like the baby. The baby's in there. So this, and he says, and this was the story collaborated by people who were there. It was pitch black smoke, takes his shirt, reps around his head. So he's blind, can't see anything. He's feeling around, going by the cries, grabs this baby, runs out, and this is when they catch him on video. And you see this guy running out and you can tell he's about to pass out, hands the baby over to a firefighter, collapses on the ground, and he's fucked. You can tell he's fucked. They got him in the hospital because he ingested so much smoke and so he's been recovering there for days. And there was a GoFundMe for him, which has raised something like half a million dollars or something like that, but you see this, he's a 27-year-old kid. He walks out and you hear him. It's hard to know to wrap the shirt around his head. Well, I wouldn't even think. I would just like try and run and save him, probably pass out and die myself. I wouldn't even have the awareness to even think of that. But the part that brought me to, like almost brought me to, first of all you see him running out and you see the kid. And so like as a father, you're like, oh please God, hope this kid, and the kid was okay. But then you hear him as he's like on the ground catching his breath and you can tell he's messed up. He's like, you can hear him. And he's like, I hope the baby's okay. I hope the baby makes it or whatever. That's all he could care about. Like man, we need some heroic shit. We need more people like that. It's crazy you bring up that story. So I told you guys that I was talking to Brett on the drive to work today. So Brett works on our marketing side, right? And he's about to have a baby. He's having a baby. It's gonna be his first baby, right? And in about three months, three or four months I think the babies do. And so I was asking him some questions. Like, you know, does it feel real yet? This and that. And he's just like, you know, honestly, a lot of my life hasn't changed yet. And I'm like, I was the same way I said, until it doesn't really change to what happens. And then he was asking me, well, what things have you noticed about yourself that is like really different? Like as soon as a kid, you know, it's funny I said, there was two big things that I noticed. One, I got really weird financially. Like all of a sudden I became like this miser. Never was at that. I'm in a place where I have more financial freedom today than I did, you know, say five, six years ago. But yet on now, all of a sudden I'm tighter with my finances than I have ever been. And I think that has a lot to do with just having the family and stuff. Of course. And so then the other one was the one I shared on the podcast a long time ago. Remember when I told you guys when Max was new? And I was watching that Netflix show, the medieval one where the king comes in as like part of the king comes in and takes all the firstborn sons, you know? And I remember getting all like teary eyed and like I was clenching up like Max was sleeping on me. I was all by myself. Like Katrina was out at a concert that night. It was my first night alone with Max. And we were watching and he was sleeping on my chest and I'm watching this, I was getting all emotional. I was like, that would never have happened to me before. I said, those are two big ones that I remember that totally changed for me. And this, I had this experience obviously with my firstborn and with each one, cause I got three now, I got a fourth one on the way with each one, it's becoming different. This particular thing I'm gonna say, but when my firstborn, when, you know, he was obviously in his mom's womb, it was, and I didn't realize this, but it was just this abstract idea for me because as a dad, and if you're a new dad or you're gonna become a dad, this is really interesting for men. I don't think women experienced this, but it was just this abstract idea. Like, yeah, I know there's a baby in there, you know, I could feel it kick sometimes, but mom's connected. Like mom already has a relationship with this baby. It's not really, really yet. No, she feels him, she feels him moving, she's got all this stuff happening, you know, if the baby's not moving, she's worried like she's connected to this human. As dad, I see it, but it's this weird, you know, and I'm like, yeah, I'm so excited, but whatever, as soon as he came out, it hit me like someone took a break and threw it in my face. I remember like, he comes out and it was like, cuckoo, like, there's a baby, like this is real. It was such a weird experience for me. Now each successive one, I get that connection faster and faster because I know what to expect, but I don't remember that first one, it hit me like. Now do you attribute that to, because now this is gonna be four for you and so it's each time, or do you attribute that more just to being kind of older and more in tune like that? Because I wonder the same thing too, like, you know, with the next one or the next one, would I be more and more connected earlier and earlier? Or are you just at that part in your life? Like, I don't know what some of the things you did with your first two kids versus what you did now for baby three and four, like as far as when the baby was in the womb, like, I mean, I was like reading the max when he was still in her belly, doing things like that and very cognizant that there was a baby there and talking to him and rubbing where maybe if I was 25, I wouldn't be doing some of those things. That's a good question, I don't know. I have to say it's probably both, but it's the like, you know, I had no idea is what it is. It's like you don't know what you don't know. So, you know, okay, you remember before you had max, how Justin and I would say, and even Doug would say things like, oh, you'll know, like it's hard for you to understand kind of what it feels like, but wait till you have one. Like that's what I mean, you ever talked to somebody without kids? Yeah, of course. It's just you don't, and it's not, there's no, it's not bad or good. It's just you have no idea of what that's, it's like trying to explain. The magnitude of it, yeah. Yeah, it's like if you've never had vision before, so you've never had vision before, and you're trying to explain to somebody what it's like to perceive things through vision. It's very hard to understand because you've never experienced it. You know, that's another thing that I didn't tell my cousin that I think that was new for me was this was the first time in a, you know, the first time in my life I ever felt I truly loved something more than myself. You know, even Katrina being my partner, as much as I love her and would just, would take a bullet for her and do anything for her. It was different with Max. It was like having your kid took that to a whole new level, and I think you actually talked about it like it grows. Is that weird? Yeah, from the minute it comes out, it is like you feel that feeling of like, and then I think that had to do, I also think that had to do with like the whole finance thing and why I got emotional at that is because like now like my mind is not on myself, it's 100% on him and thinking about him, which is why all of a sudden those weird feelings and decisions are happening, and it does, it grows as the time goes on. Yeah, that's the part that, and it continues to grow. And then I remember having this thought with having multiple was after I had my son and then we were gonna have another one, I thought I almost felt a little worried, like am I gonna love this one? Like I love my son, like how's that gonna work? Like what if I don't, what if I don't love her? Like I love my son, but what happens is it doesn't divide, it just grows, and each time it grows. I know Jessica is even talking about that with the second one for her, she's like, what if I don't love this one? Like I love Aurelius, I'm like no, no, honey, just wait, just wait to explain something. I remember we had a moment and we were driving and this was when Courtney was pregnant with Everett and we were driving with Ethan, he was in the back seat and he had just been like talking a lot and like learning ABCs and all the stuff and he just started singing a song and like we had that same thing and we didn't love this other kid as much and it was just like, oh, like broke us down because it was just like, you know, you had this like new bond that you just made with this kid already and then like, you don't know if like it's gonna take you away from that feeling or something and you're not gonna give the same. It was a trip though, it was just like, ah. The part that never gets old or hasn't gotten old for me and it's always shocking and surprising is the little, like growth spurts and intelligence and personality. Like right now Aurelius is just randomly saying words out of nowhere, like the other day, like what were we doing, although he's got this, okay so we actually saw, we got them for you guys, do you know those, they look like big cards but they're kind of smooth and you can use a dry erase marker on them. The ones that Max had in Cabo where you can like circle objects and it's pretty cool, right? So Jessica loved them, so we bought them for Aurelius and there's different pictures and so they have to find like, where's the apple, where's the whatever? It's almost like where it was walled though but it's made for little ones. Anyway, he's like, he's pointing and he goes cake. Like, you know how to say cake? Tea, I'm like, what? Where's this coming from? Whale, like where do you say all of a sudden? All these different words, like what the hell's? Now do you guys, I was asking my aunt and uncle are in town and they're watching Max right now because Katrina's out of town so they're watching them while I'm at work and they raised six kids, right? So, and they have tons of grandkids. Each like, each one of their kids have either like four or five kids so they have like tons. Oh, I know this thing. Yeah, she'll love it. So they're with them and so obviously they've been around a lot of kids and I was asking my aunt last night, I'm like what's your favorite age like that of raising the kids at and Max was puzzling in front of us and stuff like that. She's like, oh, probably this phase. This phase to six, so three to six range. I say that four to six is like what I think is the coolest time because to me that's when that cognitive switch comes on. Like right now Aurelius and Max are kind of starting to piece the words and Max is now putting like three words together. He's like just coming up on that new phase where he's soon gonna be asking me why everything, right? Why daddy, why this, why that? And then that switch where they're trying to piece everything together. I love that. Yeah, just wait till they become teenagers. It's really cool because then you start to get, have deep discussions. You know with little kids, you can't really have a deep discussion but now I'm having discussions with like my oldest and he'll challenge me or he'll come up with a concept or an idea and it's cool to hear because I remember when I was his age when I would think certain ways or whatever. So now it's like, oh, this is really cool but then teenagers also they can get and I was the same way. Like you've learned a lot but you don't have any wisdom but you still think you have wisdom. So you have the greatest range out of all of us. And of course, and I know everybody says that every phase presents things that are awesome that you like better know phases but if you had to pick a two or three year block of their lives so far, like what has been your... That's so hard dude because you know what it is for me at least is when the phase is gone, I miss it. That keeps happening. So like if I think like, oh man, 12 years because my daughter's 12, about 13, I, oh, I missed that one. My oldest was that age, you know? And then Aurelius is, you know, he's gonna turn two in a few months or... And I'm like, man, I remember when he was one, you know? Or my cousin has an infant. Oh, I remember that. So it's like, I always miss what's gone and I don't know how to... I don't know, it's weird. It makes me wanna be more present but it's like, that's always gonna happen. Like stupid Facebook with their constant, like, you know, hey, remember this post seven years ago and I see my kids when they were little and it's like, fucks me up every time. See, I kind of feel like I get that because there's definitely parts, like one of the things that is awesome about the first six months to a year is the sleeping on your chest all the time. Yeah. Like that's cool, right? That was, I remember I had Max during football season and so I got to watch football all day on Sunday and literally he would just sleep, feed. Just cuddle with him. All day long. And that was a very... Broccoli cheer phase. But that being, and yeah, and I love that too. Like, you know what's funny? They tell you guys this, I don't know if I talked about this on air the other day that I still every once in a while will go in and get Max and I'll rock him in the chair. His legs are like dragging your body just like that. Now does he stay there? I tried to pull it off for a while. For a short while. So like, every once in a while, because I do miss that phase too, Justin, because I used to rock him to sleep forever. And I don't put him down as consistent. Katrina normally does. Every once in a while, dad comes in and puts him down. And they'll be like, you want me to hold you? Yeah. He'll say, yeah. And then I'll pick him up. He's like, I'm rocking him. Legs are all hanging down here. And he's like trying to get comfortable. And he'll, it's all rocking for about maybe, I don't know, five, 10 minutes. And then eventually it'll be, I could tell he's uncomfortable. I'll be like, you want to get back in your bed? He'll be like, yeah, daddy. And so then he'll walk him back to his bed. Dude, you just wait. I totally do that. You know what's funny? So I'm a touchy-feely person. Kind of like, I know you are too, Adam, but I'll grab my mom and tease her. And then I'll sit on the couch and have her sit on my lap. And I'll hold her and squeeze her. She complains, but she likes it too. So it's a good time. What's that book? There's that book where the little kid is growing up and mom is holding him and taking care of him. And at the end of the book, mom's old. Giving a tree, right? I don't know. That's like giving trees where the tree, he keeps taking it from the tree. Yeah, that one. Same concept. It messes me up. I hate that book. And then he's mom's old and he's like putting her to bed. I'm like, oh, come on, man. I gotta ruin me before bedtime. Hey, speaking of kids, do you guys know, I just read this the other day. Do you know what the record is for the most kids a single woman ever had? Oh, I don't know this. A single woman? So one woman throughout history. Throughout, well, recorded history, what we know. It has to be like one woman, 20 something. Okay, so you say 20 something. What do you think, Justin? I don't know. Like, yeah, I'll just say 30 to top Adam. 69. What? A woman had 69. Had to have multiple triplets and stuff. She had, she had, she would, she would kept having twins and triplets and then. Wow. One woman had 69 children. Her poor vagina. Either that or it's the strongest vagina of all time. Like, I don't know how you maintain, by the way, this was a long time ago. This wasn't like, I gotta pull it up. It's not like, you know, you get C-sections left and right or whatever. Here, I'll read. Oh yeah, check this out. 69. What a champion. That's so many kids. The greatest officially recorded number of children born to one mother, 69, to the wife of Fyodor Vasilyev, a peasant from Russia. In 27 confinements, she gave birth to 16 pairs of twins, seven sets of triplets and four sets of quadruplets. Whoa. Did she ever have one child? I don't know, but I'm looking at a picture of her and all her children. She created an army. What year was this? 1707 to 1782. Yeah, cause I mean. This was all natural birth. Yes, natural, cause I was gonna say, like in vitro a lot of times, doesn't it happen where you get like twins? No, this was, this was natural. Yeah, this was way before that. Yeah, dude. And they were all vaginal deliveries. What an anomaly. Yeah. That's crazy. I mean, how, okay. So at some point, does it say at what age she stopped? She had to have been having kids pretty late too. I mean, she had to, right? I think at, I mean, at some point, she must've gotten so good at it that she was just like, oh, baby's coming. Boop. There's the baby. I mean, at that point, you pretty much live your entire life, water slide. Always pregnant. Always. Water slide. That's gross, dude. Sorry, but that's just what I'm thinking. Hey, speaking of kids, did you guys know that in Hungary, the country of Hungary, they passed the law a few years ago where if you had four kids, you no longer paid in contacts. What? Yeah. To promote people having more kids. Yeah. This is actually a good topic because there's this myth out there that the world is overpopulated that we shouldn't have more kids. This is total bullshit. By the way, you could fit every human on earth in Texas and it would have the same population density of a normal city. It's only in metropolitan, big cities where you see this crazy amount of condensed people all in one place. But if you look at the map and how much space we have, it's insane how much space we have. It's not just space, it's resources. For example, oil, which is a very important resource still, we thought we would run out of it or hit peak oil in the 1970s, but because people are innovative, found new ways to get more oil, we have more oil available today than we did back then, even if you do it per capita. So resources, innovation, whatever. And this is why countries, so this is how you know that this is propaganda baloney when they say, we need to stop having kids or whatever. This is how you know it's full of crap. If this were true, you wouldn't have countries like Italy, Japan, Hungary, China. This is a big problem in China now because they're one child up all season. Yeah, I was gonna say, are they still one child only? No, they stopped it and now they're screwed because now they're looking ahead and they're like, oh my God, this is gonna be a problem. Did I read somewhere like by 2040 or 2030, like the population will be cut in half or something? 2100, I think. Oh, 2100, so it'll be cut in half. Yeah, it'll be cut in half, almost 100 years. Yeah, so no, we need more people for innovation. We need more people to pay into systems that take care of older people. It's not a bad thing. I'm sure at some point we're gonna hit up, we're gonna hit where we have too many, but that's, no, we're close to that, so. So much of our, I mean, we rely on our consistent growth in our GDP in order for everything to work. Like, look how everyone, we're freaking out right now because you have two quarters of negative GDP, like imagine if the population- It's not a recession though anymore, Adam. Because they don't identify as one. Did I hear that they changed it and then Wikipedia, I heard you say that they locked it out? They changed it, recession has always meant two quarters of contraction, so negative GDP growth, which we have. The White House comes out, changes the definition, it's on the White House website, and then Wikipedia changed the definition and locked it so nobody could edit it out. Very convenient how these things start just changing definitions all of a sudden. That's happening across the board for a lot of times. Did you listen to the newest All In podcast already? What did they say about it? That's what they said, they said it's a joke. They said, we're in recession, 100%. I mean, how dangerous do they think this is? Why not be honest about it? By not telling everybody. Oh, the reason why it's dangerous is because then the Fed chair comes out and basically they raised interest rates but then paints a rosy picture. So this means that investors now are, because they base it off of what they say too, right? And the way that they say it. So investors are like, oh. Green light again. Yeah, I guess they're not gonna keep raising rates. Remember in the, I don't know, was it 1984 I wanna say? No, before that. Volcker, the chair of the Fed back then, we had inflation like we do now, they raised interest rates, it was like in double digits. That was in the 70s, wasn't it? No, it was early 80s. Oh, that was late 70s. And in the 70s is when the inflation was bad, right? Under Carter. So what they did is they crushed inflation. We went into a really bad recession that lasted a year, but then the following year we had explosive growth because the markets became more accurate and all that kind of stuff. So, but and right now they're afraid of going up to like 4%, 5%, I mean, I think they hit like 15, 16, 17% back then to crush inflation. So. Now what I'm curious about, because I've heard that if you actually calculated inflation the same way you calculate inflation, then. Oh, we're double digit. Yeah. They did that too. They played a little shell game too with how we calculate it. They changed it. Like they pulled, there's certain things that are not included in, when they factor in, like fuel is not in there. Like gases and food aren't even in there. Like how was that and not in there when that's what most people are feeling right now? Most people are going to the grocery store or going to the gas station and this is where they feel. Maybe Doug, you can find when they changed how they calculated inflation because fuel and food used to be in there and then they took them out to obviously, this is all, again, it's a shell game, right? It's like, how can we change the numbers to make people feel a particular way? Because yeah, if you add those in, we're in double digit inflation. I think like, was it like 15, 16% if you throw those in? Yeah. I know, it's really weird. Maybe Doug, what does it say there about when we changed? I don't see the date that we changed that but it's definitely not included. Food and energy sectors are not included. Yeah, no, I know it's not included. Because they say it's too volatile. It's so stupid. It's just the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. Mixed look back. Maybe you could put, when did they change, when did they change how they calculate inflation? Because I want to see, oh, there you go. Look, it's one of the top searches. 1983. Oh, convenient. Yeah, because why? Yeah. Because that's when there was huge inflation. Right after the 70s, dude. Speaking of kids, you want to hear something? I thought this was a fake story. This is your third speaking of kids. You get a lot of kids stuff. I know, it all worked out. Kids, kids, kids. It all worked out together. This has got to be the craziest thing I've ever read and it's, because I said this is not real. Oh no, it's real. Jackie sent something over that I wanted to talk about too. I thought it was really interesting. Okay, check this out. Ready for this? Yeah, it's here. Okay, first of all, I'll read the title of this and this is a real thing. So the title of the article is, Japanese officials assassinate the leader of a baby stealing monkey gang. Whoa, what? What? Say that again. Baby stealing, like they were like... Japanese officials assassinate the leader of a baby stealing monkey gang. A city in Japan is on the lookout after dozens of people have been attacked by monkeys. Now, when I first read it, I thought that there was a gang of people stealing baby monkeys. No, it's a gang of monkeys. Okay, because I seen a clip before of this and in the video, they said that they were having this issue where they had like a monkey that they thought like somebody was sending the monkey out to grab and snatch kids and they were thinking it was a sex trafficking thing. Okay, so check this out. Which was like really disturbing. So for the past several weeks, the southern Japanese city of Yamaguchi has been under siege by a gang of wild macaques. You love saying that. I know that. You can't watch out for macaques. Hey. By a gang of wild macaques, hell bent on stealing babies and attacking women and the elderly. The troop of marauding snow monkeys has evaded capture while terrorizing residents. The planet of the H is happening, you guys. Oh, and while terrorizing residents and as thus far responsible for over 50 violent incidents that include break-ins and assaults in homes, schools, and even a kindergarten. Bro, is that- Most notably- What is going on with this behavior? Look at this, most notably, however, have been the numerous attempts at kidnapping small children. What? So you know what the frick it, you know what they did? They went and assassinated the leader of the gags of this macaque gang. Wow. How big are these monkeys? Isn't that a, wasn't that in a movie where they had like a pet monkey that was like a thief and he would send- Yeah. Right? That's in a movie, isn't it? Oh, that's a latter. Indiana Jones. Indiana Jones, dude, raise the law stark. There's another, I guess maybe they've done it multiple times, I think, because you're right, Aladdin did it, so did Indiana Jones. So, Justin, you were wondering how big macaques are? I was. Macaques are normal-sized monkeys, but they're monkeys, bro. Monkeys are strong as shit. I guess that's okay. I was hoping they were huge. Did you see the one that- Okay. Changed the subject. Doug, can you pull up Hershey's ticker? I want to see what their stock is. Oh, Hershey's. I want to see what their stock is right now. I might have a little prediction for you all. Where are we going here? Yeah, yeah. Well, did you see the article that Jackie sent over? I think this is- Was it going to make a candy shortage? Yes. So, Hershey's came out with an article saying that they are preparing for a huge shortage come Halloween and Christmas, which is when they have the biggest spike in sales for chocolate bars and candy and all the other candies that they make at home. Where's the short? Like what ingredients? I don't know what exact what ingredients to make certain candy, but a lot of their different popular- It's up. Oh, look at that. Wow. Look at that. Wow. Watch it continue to run, too. Because of course- Okay, think about this. Because the price is good. Remember when the toilet paper shortage came out and everybody- Oh, man. So, imagine how brilliant- Brooding chocolate. I kind of feel like this is like brilliant strategy if you're a Hershey's. Yeah, I bet you this is bullshit. Because this is a little early to be talking about Halloween candy. What'd you think? Yeah. I mean, we got a few months before you're gonna be buying Halloween and Christmas candy. What ingredient is it that they're lacking? I don't know what- Exactly. I don't know what the exact- Maybe you can look it up for sure. There's plenty of sugar out there. Listen, okay, not many things will get Americans up in arms, but a candy shortage, that's a civil war shit right there. That's it, man. That's where I draw my- I want to look up the article because I want to see what it is that people that they're saying is gonna cause this shortage. It's a- Yeah, there's an ingredient, an ingredient or multiple ingredients in making Hershey chocolate bars and I think Jolly Ranchers and some other ones. I'm not even a fan of hers. Because internationally, wasn't it just grains specifically that we're worried about? That's more than that, dude. It's more than that. It's not just- That's the main one I think that everybody's concerned about, but there's more than that that there's shortages. Oh, here, I'm pulling it up right now. But I mean, Hershey's owns a lot of candies. They're not just- Oh, yeah. It's a Hershey chocolate bar right away, and that's it, but they have a bunch of different brands underneath their brand. It's the case supplies of cocoa, edible oil, and other food ingredients. There you go. So that's what's happening. Well, I'll tell you what, man. If we run out of candy, Americans are gonna be pissed. I mean- Gas goes up. Everybody's gonna whatever. I know it's up right now. I think it's a good buy. It's gonna be a good buy until the end of the year. So watch it go on a run. Holy cow, man. That's crazy. They'll probably increase prices and then people will still go buy it all out of stock. Stackin' Hershey bars, dude. You will freak out and not have a candy on Halloween, so we'll start buying in August. That's not even my favorite candy I could care of that. Are you gonna get a chocolate if I'm not a big chocolate? Sorry, Doug, I'm gonna put you to work here. How many brands are underneath Hershey? They're, that's a big company. They're not just, it's not just chocolate bars. Listen, if I can't get candy corn for Halloween, I'm gonna be pissed. Is Reese's attached to- I think so. Look at Justin's- I know, I think, I'm pretty sure Hershey owns Reese's, I think. Look at Justin. I don't know that. Justin just got worded. More than 90 brands, bro. That's the only candy I- Your favorite candy's probably under Hershey. Look it, look it up. What do we got? What do we got? I'm all about candy corn on Halloween. You like all the weird stuff. I know. You know there's two Hershey factories in the United States, that's it. One of them used to be in my hometown. Where is it? What is it? One's in Pennsylvania, one's in Oakdale. Oakdale. And then they closed down the Oakdale one, but when it used to rain in Oakdale, the whole town would smell like chocolate. I'm serious. That's awesome. It was the coolest, it was like one of the coolest things in this little shit whole town out of the middle of nowhere. We had the Hershey plant there. And so anytime it rained, the whole town would smell like a chocolate candy bar. You're sticking your face in there. Yeah, sorry Justin. Reese's is part of the group. Millions of Reese's cups just disappear. It is, look at it. Yeah, dude. You're gonna have to make your own Jolly Ranchers. Twizzlers. Who likes Twizzlers? I gotta get a bunker, you guys. Twizzlers are still a thing. Twizzlers are gross. They're not even, they're not even licorice. Did you see the meme I posted about it the other day? I posted a meme about Twizzlers. Red Vine's way better. Red Vine's way better than Twizzlers. I don't understand. Twizzlers taste like plastic. Yeah, no. If you ask me. Wow, they got a lot of different candies under there. Artificial butter plastic. Under their... I didn't know they do skinny pop too, huh? That's gotten really popular. That's Booty. Don't say that out loud, Adam. Booty, skinny pop. Who cares? Popcorn? Yeah. Who eats popcorn instead of candy? You know, since we're on this... You imagine handing out popcorn to kids at Halloween? That's a great way to get your house egged. No, I just didn't know they owned that. I didn't know they owned that brand. Pencils. That's a really popular brand right now. You know, I'm gonna stay on the kids theme because we have a commercial today for public goods. And I just, the other day we were talking about Max and Irelia's like incorporating them and helping out. So, I mean, almost all of our products now in the house are pretty close to being all public goods now. And we have all... And then we have a storage where we have like all the refillable, you know, stuff or whatever. And that's like one of his new favorite things to do is to go around the house and fill all the soap bottles and the lotions and stuff like that. And so Katrina lets him carry it. You know, we talk a lot about chemicals that could be potential endocrine disruptors, xenoestrogen and stuff like that. Those are a lot of the chemicals that public goods tries to watch out for and prevent from being in their products. So if you're, cause it could be really overwhelming. If you're like, okay, what chemicals could potentially affect my hormone system and in what combinations or whatever? Public goods provides lots of these products and they make, that's one of their targets is we don't sell products that have a lot of these known chemicals that can cause hormone disruptions and stuff like that along with the fact that they're, you know, environmentally conscious, very environmentally conscious. Well, and they're direct to consumer. And so I give you byproducts like public goods cause it's not like they're the only product that does this stuff. You're the price you're paying. Like you go to Whole Foods and you go get their dish soap. You get those things that are. Yeah, chemical free. Yeah, you're paying so much more than like your normal soap or lotion or things like that where my lotion and soap, hand soap, all those things are actually cheaper through public goods and it's a better product than like your basic Safeway brands. Oh, I gotta tell you guys speaking of our, I didn't even tell you guys speaking of our sponsors. I got a DM from someone whose family makes wine. So they make wine, they have a vineyard, but they've always had such a bad reaction to alcohol that they can never really partake in, you know, the family events. And they have a winery. That sucks. Yeah, you know, and they have a little bit, but in the DM they're like, you know, if I drink a glass or more, I always feel so terrible the next day. So I never was really able to enjoy. I heard you guys talk about Zebotics. And I said, let me give this a try and see if this makes a difference. And it did. Wow. It did. They're like, they're like, look, I'm not getting smashed. They're like, I'm just having a glass or two with my family now, but now I feel the next day, okay, I don't feel like I did before. Yeah, that's interesting. Which is kind of cool, right? That is cool. Wine has been one of those where it's been always difficult for me because I think it's because of the added additives and things that I guess like some wines have some of the cheaper wines. Cause I've always had, I think some of the cheaper wines and then I just got like introduced to some of the more expensive stuff. That's the good stuff. And I didn't have the same reaction at all. But I mean, Zebotics, of course, that helps overall with you feeling better. The worst hangover I ever had in my entire life was wine. Yeah. Well, that's what I mean. They've always gave me the worst. When I was. That's due to sugar, I think. Ah, I don't know what it is. Or if it's because it's dark. Cheap wine is really, really high on sugar a lot of the time. Oh, dude, I had. That's a lot of fillers. And a lot of the crash we feel, aside from, I know what Zebiotic pairs with in order to like eliminate that, but a lot of the crash you feel is the spike in the blood sugar. And then it's the dramatic crash. Doug, what if it's that they add the wine here that they don't add in like Europe? Sulfates. Sulfates. That can cause people to have allergic, like immune reactions. That one got me a bit. Yeah. No, I was in my 20s and my cousin and I, he had just broken up with his girlfriend. He was really sad. And we bought, went to the grocery store, you know, in your 20s, you don't pay attention to like quality. You're just like, this is, let's get smashed. So I bought, you ever seen those jugs of wine? They try to make them look old world, but they're in the grocery store. So it's like a jug. So him and I split a jug one night and just crushed it. And I had a hangover last of two days. I've never felt a hangover that bad in my entire life. It was the worst. Do you think, okay. So you've talked to the guys right at Zebiotic and I don't know if you know the science behind this or not, but if you kind of regularly, like let's say you're somebody who kind of drinks occasionally or like maybe a couple of drinks on the weekend or whatever like that, and you consistently use Zebiotic, is do you think there's a compounding effect that, and a residual that stays in there so it continues to kind of help? Oh, that's a good question. Like for example, like I actually noticed the other day, I didn't have, I remember I had a beer at work and that's like a total never happens, ever happened. That was weird. That was awkward. Did we get that on camera? Well, you know, I think it was. I think Andrew caught a clip of it or whatever, but it's because Justin did that stupid commercial like I don't know, two, three weeks ago, we've had those Corona lights sitting in our refrigerator for a long time and I was eating like a homemade burrito bowl and I'm like, you know, it sounds really good right now. I've been drinking so much of that Sevilla and I'm like, I don't want that right now. I'm like, maybe I'll have that Corona light. Oh, Corona light in Mexican food. So it's like hard to resist. Like whatever, yeah, so it went really good. But anyways, I didn't have Zebiotic because we don't have any here right now. Thanks Justin. And I drank it and actually felt totally fine, which normally sometimes even a single beer will make you feel off. So I wonder if there's, I don't think so, I don't know. I don't know how long the bacteria lives in your gut because what it does is the bacteria is in your gut and it produces compounds that break down the acetaldehyde that doesn't make it to the liver. So it prevents you getting all this acetaldehyde. We'll have to ask about that in the future. This is gonna launch like afterwards, but so today we're launching a commercial for Zebiotics on Instagram and it's all about like the Mime Pump Mule. So it's like the formula that I use for my recipe. Hey, welcome back. We're gonna learn how to make the Mime Pump Mule. You know, you ruined Moscow Mules for me. I have yet to have a Moscow Mule. No, I enhanced your Moscow Mule. Well, what I mean by that is I have yet to have a Moscow Mule anywhere. That's as good as the one I have. I agree, I agree. Yeah, it is. Justin makes it with love. Yeah, that's what Katrina says, like when food's like really good, I made it with love. Well, you're from Washington. It's a very specific way, yeah. He does this thing with the, what is the leafs you put in there? Mint, mint. Okay, he takes the mint and he claps his hands. He gets to express the oil, man. He expressed the mint. I have no idea. I had no idea what you were doing. I just thought it was a weird ritual. Like, let's just put some magic in there real quick. It's like Daniel Sutter. Yeah. The Rattakid. The Rattakid makes me agi. Anyway, I want, oh, I was gonna say, so it was kind of a funny thing. I was thinking, like I was reading about inventions and like some, you know, childhood toys and things that like people have come up with. And you remember the Super Soaker, right? Yeah. The coolest, you know, water gun of all time. Can we pause there for a second? Because people don't know this who are not our age. The Super Soaker revolutionized the water gun market. I remember as a kid, as a kid, you had two options. The water weenie, which was terrible. The water weenie was the only one that would give you a continual stream, right? But you had to hold this big ass. It was like the hose before that, right? Yes. And then the other ones were just squirt, squirt, squirt. And that was it. And then the Super Soaker came out and it was like having a machine gun against muskets. Actually, I would love to look that up. Doug, can you pull up how much money the original Super Soaker made? Because you're right. That was like... The revolutionized water gun fight. It was insane, dude. It took over. It swept. So anyway, like you want to talk about the most over-qualified person ever to invent this. I'll give you a guess as to like what his profession was. Wait, wait, wait. You're saying who invented the Super Soaker? Yeah, who invented it. Super Soaker, yeah. Was he an astrophysicist or something? Very close. Really? Yeah, nuclear scientist, nuclear physicist. Really? Yeah. Yeah, this guy, Lonnie Johnson, I guess. Imagine going to school for that, probably working at NASA for a while or something like that. And then your big breakthroughs, you make the Super Soaker? Yeah. Oh, is this him? Is this him? Yes, yes. He has a net worth of 300 million. Wow. Fortune thanks to the invention of the Super Soaker. Wow. So early 90s. The best-selling toy in the US in the early 90s and generated well over one billion in revenue. One billion? For a plastic toy. I need it. I mean, OK, we can't overstate this. Like the best thing he's done, he's a nuclear. Yeah, I know. Somebody, you would be remembered for that, you know? Isn't that funny? How markets work? Like, he could have used his intelligence to solve some major problem. Right. Invent a water gun. I'll tell you what, though. I can't overstate this. When I was a kid, it's still like this, right? Water gun fights were a big thing in my neighborhood. Summertime comes out. Yeah, yeah. We're all blasting each other. We're getting water balloons. We're having a good time. When the Super Soaker hit the scene, it was literally like it would be like you're an army and you're on horseback with muskets, and then they show up with tanks and machine guns. It was game over. And I remember the first kid with the Super Soaker. You get destroyed. Oh, we're getting our asses kicked. And I'm like, dad, we need to go buy one for you. I think as a kid, I think I got, for me, almost a decade of my life, it was one of the toys I asked for almost every year. Because you know why they did what was also brilliant? Is they evolved it every year. Oh, it kept double Super Soaker. Yeah, the double plumber, then the backpack. The basooka. Yeah, dude, it just kept getting crazier and crazier. You're like, I need that one. Yes, dude. Yeah, a gatling gun. Yeah, the water weenie was cool because it was better than whatever they had. But that thing got was so cool. You know another one I remember? So the water balloons that were like grenades. Yes. You remember those? Oh, they look like grenades? Yeah. Bro, we had those. We'd go in the forest and it was like all on assault. And I would actually, this is where I got into some trouble, because I would actually create like booby traps and things like dug like holes. And I would put part of the forest has like a thick layer of like, you know, like fallen leaves, whatever. And it creates this kind of thick brush. And so I could easily like put that on top of the hole. And I would have like these huge pits of like water balloons and whatever. And one of the kids fell and I dug one really deep. And he like hurt himself. Of course, dude. Like what was I thinking? Oh, we all did show. So going back to your Super Soaker, because I'm like super fascinated that somebody was able to invent something like this and make a run that long, make that much money, right? And increase his net worth. He had to have some sort of a patent on that. Because it would be such an easy thing to recreate a different brand. So he must have. Yeah. But what can you patent with something like that? Probably the water pressure like with the pump. OK, I have a theory. So there was a toy that used a similar technology before the Super Soaker. It wasn't a water gun, though. And you guys will remember it as soon as I bring it up. OK, first water gun patent was issued in 1986. Another patent. OK. So what did he do? And it could describe further. Air pressure instead of water pressure. That's part of it. Oh, OK. Was that the first one to use air pressure like that? Yeah. But I remember. Because the old school method was water pressure? Yeah, the old school, you'd have to pull the trigger at the time you scored it. This, you pump air. Strike the water. And then that was it, right? So there was. A chamber of air that you. There was a toy that used air pressure. That is older than the Super Soaker. It wasn't a water gun. Let's see if you guys can remember. It was a very common toy. The rocket. The rocket. Oh, right, right. Remember the rockets? I had one. You pump them and you let go and it just, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I remember those. Do you ever fire those at your friends? I mean, I bet you that's probably. I wonder if that's where he got it from. But that's, yeah, because now, I mean, you bought those guns, right? That are like a knockoff version of the brand. Yeah, now they, I wonder if the patent expired. Yeah, exactly. Is it the patents expired or are the people found ways around the patent maybe by now? Because now you see all kinds of competitive products. But I mean, for someone to get away with a run for that long and you not make a competitive product, you had to have had a pretty tight patent. What's the most powerful Super Soaker now? What do they look like now? I want to see what that looks like. Doug, can we look that up? Yeah, I don't know. Like, I'm sure someone's got a battery. A bad battery or CO2 loaded, I would imagine. CO2? Oh, CO2, yeah. Why wouldn't you, I wouldn't you think that, right? Like you. Well, you've seen all the CO2 BB guns and like, oh, dude. Did you see the new one, Matt Bess? Just look, just did it. Yeah, it's like fully automatic. What is it? Pull this up, Doug. Pull up, go to Matt Bess Instagram. Sorry, we're like sending you all over the place right now. I know. It's like an AR-15 kind of looking. Go to Instagram, go to Matt Bess and go to like maybe a post he just did about two days ago. And yeah, yeah, that's him. What is it? Go down, go down, watch this. You have to see the cell. There it is right there. It's that first one, actually. Yeah. Play this for cell. And what is that? That's a, it's a fully automatic BB gun. Oh, no. But wait till you see like the. So I don't have one of those, but I have the hand. I'm by guns, like the Glock's. So I have like, and I bet that they've come a long way. How much, how much do I bet you can't buy in California? How much you want to bet you can't buy that here? And it's a BB gun. And it's like not even in California. Watch him fire this thing right here. And it's a BB gun. Those are all like cancer. Just watch the kids. No. Can we get a bunch of those? I know I'm so ready to get one of those. I want four. Yeah. I want all of us to have one. Yeah. Can we do that? Talk about like, you know, getting rid of my gopher problem. You saw that already too. Yeah. Yeah. I saw it right away. Are they for sale or is it just he made it himself? No, no, no. He got the company. He's not sponsored by the company. He says that in his video. Just friends of theirs sent it to them and he pulled it out and it just displayed it. Well, hold on a second. If the company's watching right now and you'd like some free. You don't like this to talk about it. It's a wheel and deal here. Send us some. Don't say the name of the brand. We're fans. We all say it yet, but we will say it if you send it to us. Send us some fully automatic BB guns. We'll take those. Hey, real quick. There's a company we work with called live on live on labs and they make some of the best supplements. You'll find anywhere, but here's a deal. They have a patented liposomal delivery process, meaning these ingredients actually get to the target tissues. This is a pharmaceutical delivery system, but it's in a supplement. Okay. And right now you can get lipo glutathione for free when you bundle it with the B complex and vitamin C. Go check this company out. This is where I take my nutrients. This is where I get my glutathione. This is where I get my alphalipoic acid, where I get my B complex. I don't take that stuff anywhere else. I get it from live on labs. Again, get free lipo glutathione only for mind pump listeners when you bundle it with the B complex and the vitamin C. Here's what you got to do though. Go to liveonlabs.com forward slash MP for that hookup. All right. Here comes the show. Our first caller is Thomas from Mississippi. Thomas, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Hey, so happened to be on podcast. I'm listening to y'all for about a year and a half now. My question was about the dangers of red meat. So last year I started eating myself a pound of red meat every day. And once I started doing that, everybody started telling me how terrible that was for me. What I don't understand is that if one gram of red meat is more micronutrient dense than one gram of white meat and the fat content in red meat is better than white meat, why is there so much hate on eating all this red meat? Where do you live? Beverly Hills? Good question. Actually, so there's two parts of this. First, let me address. Is it bad for you? It depends. It depends on the person. And I don't know the whole context. So I would say depending on the individual, most people would be fine, but some people might have blood lipids that would look a little off or maybe get inflamed for eating so much of one particular type of food. It's unlikely, but if you get, you know, your checkups done and your health is good and you feel good, you're totally fine. As far as why it gets all the hate because it was based on faulty science, there was this saturated fat cholesterol model that was put out. I think it was a seven nation study that was put out and was accepted as dogma for as to why there's heart disease exploding in developed nations. We all know that that now was totally faulty. It doesn't really work that way. There's a lot more to the story than just, you know, people eat a lot of fat, you know, type of deal. So because red meat tends to be higher in saturated fat and fat in general, everybody was like, oh, that's bad for you. So let's all eat the lean meat, which is like chicken breast and, you know, lean turkey meat. Don't eat the brown turkey meat. Eat the lean white turkey meat. And, you know, when you eat eggs, eat just egg whites and all that stuff. And so it was based off of faulty science. Really the most the danger of red meat occurs when you hunt the red meat. That's when it's dangerous. Other than that, you're probably okay. Or it's what you pair it with. That's really what ends up happening is the people that are eating high. I'm sorry, go ahead. No, it's normally what they're pairing it with too. So if you're getting your red meat from McDonald's because you're eating a large fry and a milkshake with it, that's where it gets bad. This is what always tarnishes a lot of those studies. You know, they don't account for a lot of those other factors that sneak in there in terms of like what they combine their red meat with. But, you know, I'm sure there's some outliers out there that don't do very well with red meat. So I'm sure that exists. Yeah. Now, Justin and Adam are referring to as like the healthy buyer, healthy user bias, where because we've been told for so long that red meat is bad for us, that people who are health conscious now tend to avoid, or a lot of people who are health conscious now tend to avoid red meat because we've been told for so long. And so what happens is when you do a study and you don't have really good controls, you go, oh, look, people who eat less red meat tend to be healthier. But that's because these tend to be health conscious people. If I put out, you know, a message that riding a bike is bad for your health, and I do that for five decades, eventually healthy people are going to avoid riding a bike, and then we're going to have studies that show that, oh, people who don't ride a bike tend to be healthier. So you got to be careful with that. But when you have all the controls put in place, it doesn't work out that way, not at all. Now, there are always outliers. There's outliers that will have bad reactions to vegetables and fruit also. But for the most part, it's totally fine. And there's countless examples. I mean, you want some anecdote. Like I eat a pound of red meat and eight to 10 eggs a day, and my cholesterol numbers are, I mean, what would be considered a perfect based off of the standards? But, yeah, I wouldn't worry so much. Let me ask you this. Do you know what your blood work looks like? Your triglycerides, your health markers, inflammatory markers? Do you know any of that? I don't right now. I know that next week. I have an appointment next week. Okay. So, I mean, if you get checked and everything looks okay and you feel good, yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about red meat. Like I said, it was all based off of bullshit, really. Yeah. And to like Adam and Justin's point about like what, like all the studies always show it paired with, I always, you know, they say process red meat or it's like I'm not eating like my ground beef. I'm not eating it with McDonald's fries and a Dr Pepper. Right. Yeah. Exactly. You're not smoking a cigarette with it. Yeah. Yeah. And people hit on a whole egg so much too. I don't know. I like to eat whole eggs and the quantity people tell me is a lot too. Yeah. No, that's where are these people? This is a dinosaur stuff. This is really, this is a big ship that is hard to turn. You're looking at decades of messaging. And, you know, I'm going to bring this up on, on another episode or maybe even this one when we record the front part of it. But there was a study that came out showing that the dietary guidelines of America, which is like a council who dictate our dietary guidelines and policy and a lot of regulations, 95% of the people on there had significant conflicts of interest. So, and I'll tell you, if you follow the government's guidelines for health over the last four decades, you'd be sick and obese right now. So that's way more alarming to me. Yes, totally. So I think you're fine, but you get your blood work at check. Every individual is different. So I can't make a definitive statement, but generally speaking, red meat's one of the healthiest foods you could find on earth. All right. Thanks for calling in. Mine got approved. You got it. Boy, that's so annoying to me. The messaging, there's still people who are like, who are telling me that margarine is healthier than butter. Just reminds you, right? The information. Yeah, the information that's still out there that we heard decades ago is just like it's still within the pop culture. Well, how many views, do you know how many views Game Changers got? No idea. It went crazy viral. Oh, that documentary definitely made an impact. Yeah. It made a huge impact. I mean, I had family that I remember seeing not long after it released that all of a sudden we're, you know, cutting out, you know, red meat out of their diet completely. And when I was like, what are you doing? Oh, did you see the Game Changers document? I'm like, oh my God. Yeah. You know what's funny too, is that you'll get people like that who will cut out red meat and then they'll be like, I'm way healthier. Look at my blood work. And you're like, okay, so here's what you did. You traded your higher caloric intake meat. So what you did is you cut your calories. Right. It's just like when people are like, oh, I don't need any carbs. Look what happened. Or I cut out. I reduced more fiber into my diet, and therefore now my digestion feels better. Yes, because just eating lower calorie tends to improve things, regardless of what your diet's made up of. Lane did a really good, he wrote a paper and he did a whole video on like every point that Game Changers made and just destroyed it. Like he went, I think it was literally a long, it's a long paper to read, but I mean he went thorough. He went at every single point they tried to make in there and unpacked it for the audience. I thought it was probably one of the best papers and videos done on Game Changers for anybody who still believes that or thinks that the stuff that they were promoting was true. What was the views? How viral did it go? It's supposedly one of the most watched documentaries of all time. What? Really? Yeah, you could argue that that's having one of the greatest impacts on that narrative right now. Yeah, but you know what happens? This is propaganda. What happens is people switch because they've been scared to, right? So they watch that. Oh my God, I don't want to die. I want to be healthy. Then they switch and then within six months the fail rate is like any other diet. They go right back. So the only people that stick to it are the ones that really believe in the welfare of animals don't want animals to be killed. But if that's not you cutting out meat because it's healthier, that's not true. That's false. That's not how it works. It's the only people who I think should cut it out. It really is. I mean, I totally support somebody who does that. That's fine. I got nothing to guess that. Totally. But otherwise, why the hell would you? Some of the best part of my diet. Delicious. I would miss it immediately. I know. If you're a rib-eyes, then you get the fuck out of here. And it's a fact. It's extremely nutrient dense and it's one of the last whole foods that Americans have in their diet. If you look at Americans diet, 70% is heavily processed foods. If you look at the 30% that's whole, it's usually meat, eggs, or milk. So you cut out meat. We're going to replace that with more heavily processed foods. That's it. It ain't going to be carrots. Carrots in the shape of ribs. Carrots in the shape of a rib-eye. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Our next caller is Aaron from Virginia. Aaron, what's happening? How can we help you? Good. How's it going, guys? Good. Good. So my main question is, I'm starting to kind of try to fix my metabolism after several years of not really paying too much attention to what I've been eating or how much just kind of working out as hard as I can, not tracking protein or minimal tracking protein. So I got started, a little background on me. I got started with CrossFit about 12 years ago. That kind of got me into a lot of the lifting, powerlifting, stuff like that, Olympics. And then I started on your maps program with Anabolic about four years ago. Enjoyed that. Started running through pretty much most of your programs. I just finished up a couple of months ago, Aesthetic. And I actually enjoyed that once so much that I redid. I'm starting, actually I enjoyed phase one so much. I just, I just did it again. I'm just wrapping up with that. I definitely noticed a good deal of muscle building. I packed on quite a bit of weight for all my major lifts. You know, 10, 15 pounds for each of them over the, I did it for six weeks. So I, you know, I was pretty, pretty excited for that. I like this commercial question. What's that? That's a great commercial question. Thank you. Oh, yeah, gotcha. So for the last six or seven months, I really been focusing on, you know, trying to rebuild my metabolism because while I was doing that CrossFit, you know, I was working out two times a day. Again, not even tracking or probably not even close to what I needed to be eating. So I've been getting up to about between 25 and 2600 calories a day, 185 protein, 114 fat and 210 carbs. I'm usually low on carbs, I tend to get, it kind of affects me a little more. I feel a little, I feel a little better with more fat in my diet compared to the carbohydrates. In my off day, I do Brazilian Jiu Jitsu one to two times a week. One to two times a week for about an hour. And then I got some like kettlebells and mace clubs in my garage. I usually do, What's up buddy? Aaron, do you want to hear from you? Say hi real quick? Yeah. Let him ask his question. Yeah. So I kind of do that just a little bit, not too much, just enough to get a little bit of a sweat and a pump. So my job, I'm a firefighter. We're busy some days, some days or not. You know, I can be walking three, four miles a day or sometimes we're just, you know, sitting in our rooms all day or doing training, sitting in a class. So my big question is, with getting my calories up, I really haven't seen much weight gain, maybe fluctuating a pound or two since I've been eating, since I've been getting up to around 2,600 calories. And I really want to know like the big question is how much should I start to cut to be effective but without like absolutely destroying my metabolism back to where it is or just like, this is way too much we can't handle this, you know, look at 500 calories, 700 calories. That's my big question. I don't want to kind of backtrack to where I was and just, so I'm five, six, one, 88 as of this morning. So that's a great question. First off, it's not, you don't have a broken metabolism. It doesn't need to be fixed. It's actually doing what it's supposed to, which is adapting. Okay. So broken metabolism would mean you dead. Like you can't thrive. But so you just want to get to be a bit faster. You know, it depends on what the person's total calories are. That'll help, that'll tell me how large of a cut I'm comfortable with. He's at 26. Yeah. I mean, I would say 500 is probably okay. Although I'd like to see you maybe move up a little higher. Yeah. For your size. Okay. Your size and as active as you are, I'd like to see you in the, you know, 3,000 range before I were to cut you. Although you could, you know. Yeah. About 500 will be the most. I wouldn't bring a below, lower than two to 2,100 calories for cut. And you could try this. You could do a shortcut like five weeks. Okay. You know, five week cut at 2,100 calories. And then slowly back, reverse back and try to get up to 3,000. If you, once you're at 3,000, I think it'll be a good place to start your cut. Because then you might end up somewhere around 2,300. When you're, Okay. Start to get to the leneness that you're looking for. But a lot of it depends, when I'm answering this on the individuals, total caloric intake, their size. I don't ever like to bring women below. And again, it depends, but I don't like to bring women below 1,500 calories. I don't like to bring guys below 2,000, especially. Unless they're going on stage, then you know, maybe you go a little more aggressive, but you have to have a good reverse diet afterwards. I don't even like to bring a guy lower than 2,000, especially his size. Yeah. I mean, the other question I would have too that I think matters in this answer is how do you feel? I mean, do you feel like you're satisfied? Do you feel like you're stuffing yourself to get to 2,600? Do you feel like you could eat more? Like, how do you feel? I, I feel stuffed. Okay. I really, Good question. I, so for about two years, I did a lot of intermittent fasting prior to this, and I've been just kind of working on getting breakfast. You know, I'm so busy in the morning, you know, with work and stuff, I'd try not to eat, I eat something like a, usually like a can of salmon or something for breakfast, just to get something in me, but you know, I'm with my macro with the, the carbs I try to hit, it's a lot of fruit, and I, it's about like a cup and a half of uncooked rice a day. And I'm just, at the end of each meal, like lunch and dinner, I'm just, you know, I'm so full and bloated. So that's why I'm trying to, Okay. I feel like maybe if I try to go into a little bit of a cut, I might readjust my diet a little bit where I can start to eat a little bit more. But I don't know. I'm just like, at the end of the day, I'm just like, I don't want to look at food sometimes. Great question, Adam, because yeah, now it changes a little bit. Now I'm like, go for a cut. I think you're fine if you feel stuffed. The other thing too is to try splitting up your meals. So instead of eating, you know, what you eat for lunch, maybe try cutting that up into two smaller meals. If it's convenient, if it works for you, I know you're a firefighter and I saw that you have a kid. So it might not be feasible for you. But that's another strategy. But if you feel full 2600 calories, yeah, go for a cut. I'd go down to 21 or 21 hour calories, 2000 calories and do that for a little while and then reverse back out. Okay. Cool. Appreciate it. Yeah, no problem, man. Hey, you said you've gone through all of our programs. Do you have maps prime or prime pro? Because I could see a lot of value in that for most people, but especially someone like yourself, you know. Yeah, I try. I've got, I got those two as the bundle and I, I probably spend 10 to 15 minutes either before going to the gym or after priming, especially before like jujitsu and stuff. I try to get there about 10 minutes early and I try to prime just about everything I can. Good man. All right. Good stuff, man. And thanks for saving lives, huh? Yeah, I appreciate it. Appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, I'm glad you asked that, Adam, because that made all the difference in the world. Yeah. I mean, well, that's the other factor, right? That is important because I could sit here all day and say, I would like you to be at 3400 calories. Yeah, but he's force feeding himself. Yeah, but if you're already feeling stuffed, I mean, that's like one of my favorite things to do. Like when I'm trying to bulk or build muscle or speed my metabolism up is I like to keep increasing calories and kind of pushing until I get to that point where I'm like, oh, just so much. And then I just naturally come back where I just go, okay. And it's easier. Yeah. So I'm going to eat when I'm hungry. I'm going to make sure I hit my protein intake, see where my calories land for a while. It'll probably naturally put me in a cut, run that for a while. Eventually when you, when you consistently run a cut for long enough, you start to get hungry again. And then when you start to get that feeling again where I'm like, oh, I'm hungry. Oh my, oh, I'm thinking about food. I'm dreaming about food. It's like, okay, let's go back to a bulk. Let me increase my calories again and then kind of naturally go that way. Yeah, it's good because you can't take out the person's experience. So we could say a number is great all we want, but if it results in them not feeling great, it doesn't matter because they're not going to be able to stick to it. So I'm so glad you asked that question. It completely changed what my advice would be. Yeah. I mean, if he, because if he were to just ask me, I'd, like I said, I would like you to be up in the 3000 calories, especially if he would say like, uh, you know, I could definitely eat more. Yeah, exactly. You know, okay, cool. Let's push it. Let's keep going. Let's keep going up. But if he's like, oh my God, I'm stuffed. It's so hard. Okay. Well, then that's, let's push that direction. Our next caller is Diego from Florida. Diego, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Why don't you say his last name, Doug? Duke. I thought we're getting pranked right now. Hey guys, Sal, Adam, Justin, Doug. How you doing, man? I'm really pumped to be invited on this, you know, pun intended. But anyway, I am a certified nutritional therapist. So I got to say, I got to commend you for the, for the great advice and you know, all the stuff you give on nutrition as well. I really respect your knowledge and you know what? I've learned a lot from you guys, really. Thank you. So I've been listening to you guys for about a year now. And yeah, you got me. I went ahead and purchased the maps on a baller. And you know, as it was as a novel workout to what I've been doing. And now I have three, three quick questions for you. First one of the background. I'm 58 years old and been bodybuilding for about, since I was 17 years old, competed twice in my 20s. But since then I've been on and off, but the past eight to 10 months, I've been really committed to guys. I've been, I've been on it, working out hard, hardly missing a workout, put on some new muscle and got rid of my, my pandemic, my pandemic belly. So, um, what I was doing, I was doing a four day split, upper body, one day lower body, the next day repeat, you know, for, for the week been lifting heavy one day and really, really light the other day. So now that I decided to change things up with your maps on a baller, even on my age and decided to go with the advanced version. So I'm doing three days a week. So here's my first question. I started the program and you start the program with what? One, four reps. So I started very, very heavy. Uh, when my second fundamental exercise went very heavy. Again, I'm the third foundational workout. I wasn't sure whether to keep heavy or to go light. So I decided to go light or did you guys have in mind to keep a steady way and keep it the same throughout the program. So, you know, just, I don't know. I just want to go to the next question. Let me answer that one first. Let's start with that one first, Diego. So two things. One, um, you've been working out for a decades. Okay. So it's safe to say, you know, your body pretty damn well. Now we know had a program very well, but these programs are written for the general audience. And if, if anybody who follows any of our programs has that much experience and knows their body or is an expert or professional, it's always important to listen to your body and to individualize it because look, you know this probably better than most people. There's lots of individual variances. You know, maps and a ball is a great layout, foundational layout. But if I train an individual, I'm going to change things based off how they feel and how they move. So if you get to that third workout and with your experience, you're like, you know what, I think I need to go lighter on this workout and just practice the technique. Then you're right. That's probably what you need to do. So it is laid out to stay consistent. At a moderate to high intensity. However, again, with someone like you, if I'm, if you're telling me to train you, my question to you is going to be like, how do you feel? What do you think is going to be right for you? And I'm going to trust what you say. The truth is the average person probably doesn't know how to even get to the level of intensity that you've learned to do over the decades. So when we write like three days like that heavy, because you're probably scratching your head like, man, that's a lot of heavy lifting in a week. Well, heavy to a person who's only been training, you know, zero to zero. Who's only been training, you know, zero to two years of their life is, is relatively low compared to someone like you who's been training for decades and really knows how to squeeze out that last bit of intensity. So you may be pushing yourselves on day, foundation day one, foundation day two, so much that you roll into three and you're like, man, I'm pretty taxed from one and two. And so if you were a client. Yeah. So if you're a client of mine and we were actually training together, I'd be like, hey, we're going to take it back, you know, intensity wise, we're going to lighten the load up and just work on technique because we really got after it on foundation day one and foundation day two. So like Sal said, you know, and that's something that we, I think we, we try and express on the show about our programs is that by no means do we think this is perfect for every single person and that you can never beat having an actual coach who's like with you or talking, and you're, you're your own coach. You've been doing this for so long that your gut probably told you like, okay, this is probably a little much for me. And so that's exactly what I would do is scale back a little bit. And remember it's, you're not going to failure on these heavy sets. Remember that. So if it's two reps or three reps, it's still 70, you know, 80% intensity. So it's not like, What do you say, what do you say, for example, I'm bent. What do you say it should be my reps and reserved? So I would do it more. Yeah, I would do it more like this. Like let's say your max bench is three 15. Like, you know that that's the most you could do for one rep. And now let's say you want to do a map set a ball of workout where you do a bunch of sets of one rep. I would go to 65 to 75 for one rep, right? So, so I'm going one to one, right? So three 15 is your max for one. If I want to train for one, then I'd go to 65 to 75. If I was going to do like two or three, I'd go down to two 35 to 45 something like that, right? And it depends on the individual. So you want it to feel challenging, but you're not going to failure. If you treat the heavy workouts, like your maxing or close to maxing, you'll fry yourself for sure. Yeah, I probably did that. My first couple of workouts. Okay. So I'm going to, you know, ease off a little bit. Okay. So my next question is warms, especially with the compound lifts. I'm used to warming up to three warmups of pretty relatively lighter weight, but I keep going up and then I progress in weight. So for example, on your foundational workout one, you have six sets of benches. We're talking about that. I progressively go up in weight and have a couple of warms. Is that what you guys had in mind? Or you guys think that I should, you know, do you hit a moderate amount of weight and just keep that weight? Do you have maps prime yet? I do not. This is my first one. Okay. So Doug's going to send you maps prime and you're going to understand why maps in a bulk is programmed the way it's programmed and why we do maps prime. So maps prime is designed to prime your body before you get into your lifts so that you can get right into it. This is common, right? So for many years, that's how I lifted, right? I get into bench and I would call, you know, my warmup sets and then my working sets, right? So if I'm doing a five by five routine, I might actually end up doing seven sets of bench because the first two were my, you know, warmup or priming types. That's where in maps prime, maps prime is designed to complement any of the programs that you're running, including if you weren't running a maps anabolic program. The idea is that you go through our compass test and it'll show you areas of your body, whether it has imbalances or if you've got kind of rounded forward shoulders and since we're talking about bench, how you would prime your body to get ready to bench. Right. You'd want to set yourself up so you're in good position. You're able to light up and produce as much force as possible with these types of mobility movements and isometric positions. But in terms of like a warmup set, if you were to do that, which priming is going to be more beneficial, you wouldn't really count that set within the mix. Yeah. And also the stronger you are, the more likely you're going to have to ramp up even for your work sets. If somebody's got a, if they squat with 135, they may do one warmup and then kind of get into it. You're squatting 400 pounds or 300 pounds. You got to feel it out because there's a big variance between when you can squat 400 and squat 350. People don't know this, but the stronger you get, the more off you could be if you feel off in terms of total weight. So don't worry about so much about, like it has to be the same weight each time. Listen to your body. Again, for someone like you who's been training as long as you have, don't ignore your, the knowledge you've already built over decades of training yourself. So if it feels right to you to within those five sets, ramp up within those five sets, then I'd say go for it. Right. You know, I just, I just didn't want to go over on the volume because we don't want to do that either. So, so that's what, that's one of the big, big things about the, so you think that I should do this, this prime session and then keep the weight pretty even. Yeah. I think, I think what you'll find, because I would, I would compare you more like most of us. We've all been lifting for a really long time and when I prime really well, I typically, and when I get into the big compound, so bench, overhead press, squat, deadlift, I only need about one, one light warmup set. One light warmup set. And then I'm into it. So I prime really well and then I get one light kind of warmup just to, and just, and really what that warmup set is, what is what Sal said, because all of us probably can squat, deadlift pretty good weight. And, you know, I could have had bad sleep or just fill off and that really will affect my heavy deadlifting day. So, and I'll know that the minute I pull 135 even. If 135 feels kind of heavy for me, okay, this is not a 500 pound deadlift day. Yeah, no matter real light, like 135 range. Right, but then sometimes I'll prime really well, I'll hit that 135 and it comes up like butter. It comes up like I'm just lifting the bar and I go, oh yeah, like today I'm getting after it, right? So to me, my priming is everything to get my body ready to go and I technically could get right into it, but then I want one warmup set just to kind of gauge, you know, where am I going to be today and then next set I'm getting into working sets. But if you feel like I don't need to ramp up, I would listen. I would listen to your body because I've had those days too where I go, whoa, I feel strong. You know what? Let me do another set but this time with 315. And then I do that one. I go, okay, I'm definitely on. Or you know what? I think I'm going to stay a little lower because I could feel my SI joint, you know? So, you know, don't forget, listen to your body while I do this. But you know, you said about the volume that you got to be careful for the volume. I'm going to tell you this right now just because of your experience and how long you've been bodybuilding. I'm going to make a guess that your issue will be the intensity, not the volume. If you overdo anything, it's going to be the intensity. I wouldn't worry about the volume. Yeah, because bodybuilding, bodybuilders tend to have a failure mentality. Go to the fatigue gets crazy. The pump is maxed out. So, so that's going to be hard for you. I wouldn't worry about seven sets of bench. Think more about like, am I overdoing the intensity? That's what's probably. Am I leaving? Am I leaving? That's where that's what I need to monitor more than intensity because I can, I can go intense. I go, I go pretty hard. That's what I figured. Yeah, I mean, I tell you what, that's how I lifted for most of my career and one of the biggest game changers was switching over to the two in the take mentality. And it's hard. It's hard when you have, you've pushed for so long. I heard you guys say that before. And I've always trained with a lot of intensity and a lot of mind, mind, mind, muscle connection. But, and I've heard you guys say this before. So, yeah, I guess I just need to hear it. It's very different. It's very different. And it's hard. It's very hard for a guy that's been lifting for a long time because you're going to feel like, oh, I could have done so much more. Or I didn't get the pump. But trust the process and actually follow the programming, but then follow it with that mindset of I'm going to leave two in the take. And I promise you, once you've gone through a month or two of one of the programs, you'll see your strength gains. You'll definitely see it and it'll blow your mind because you'll felt like, man, I could have totally got after those workouts way more. Okay. Well, I'm putting my trust in you guys. Like I said, you guys give great advice and, you know, I appreciate it and I'm going to take advantage of it. And anyway, my last question, you know, my original program was pretty basic, but like I said, intense. I derived it from Bill Phillips. You remember that guy? Bill Phillips. Absolutely. Yeah. Bill Phillips was, you know, he's somebody I admire a lot because he took bodybuilding back in the day and made it very popular. Right. So, you know, and just made it for all of life, body of life. He called, he called his book, but anyway, so given my age and my experience, what would be the progression after maps on a bollocks the nine weeks? Should I go back to what I did before or one of your other programs? Performance, performance and aesthetic or symmetry. Yeah, or that. Yeah. I would say maps, performance. I'm not too keen on the differences between the three. Okay. So, so maps, performance, mobility focus, much more functional. Which would be so good for a bodybuilder. Yes. Or symmetry or symmetry because it's all unilateral training. It'll be a little more familiar, but it's pure. It's pure. I mean, there's long phases of unilateral training in there that will benefit almost anybody, but performance. I'll, I'll, I'll lead because what Adam said, I think that edges it out because I'm pretty sure at least half the exercises in some of the phases you've probably never really trained. I mean, a guy would like you with your type of goals, your experience, and if you were my client, I would run you on anabolic performance aesthetic. And then I would use symmetry to interrupt that cycle. And I would like run you on that for a while. That's indefinite. Yeah. And that would be with the goal in mind to build more hypertrophy. Yes. Yes. Hypertrophy, keeping your joints feeling great, staying mobile, being strong, multi-directional, being on the move laterally well, looking good. That's the goal. Yeah. That literally, and that's what I'm getting from talking to you about run those three or four programs with symmetry. And definitely, that's like a year's worth of training right there. That's the challenge though. You know, it's the one that's going to be unfamiliar. And so the ego part of it is going to be challenging in terms of learning something new. But that's what, that's where the benefit is, right? That's right. Everything you've found in your training, I'm sure once you learn something new, it unlocked a lot more potential for you. Yeah. Also, Diego, consider this. If you do performance, the hypertrophy gains right? That's not saying that during performance, you're not going to see some differences. But because of the way performance is going to balance you out and train your body, it's when you're done with performance and you go back to like a bodybuilder style, work out like maps aesthetic or map split, then you're going to be like, holy cow, my body is responding like crazy. So think of that because when you're going through performance, you may be like, I'm not getting the pumps. I'm not building like I thought I would. Don't worry about it after you're done with that three month as well. Well, Diego, we're sending you maps prime and I'm going to send you perform. I'm going to send you performance too because because your background, you gave us great compliments. So I feel really nice about myself. So I'm going to send you mass performance as well. Yeah, I love you guys, man. Big hugs here from South Beach, Miami. Thanks. Thank you. All right. Thanks. I think the big lesson here and again, we did not start out as fitness podcasters or influencers. We did. We were trainers for decades. So we will never say that an individualized program is not as good as a general one that we created. So if you have a lot of experience, yeah, and even if you don't have a lot of experience, if your body is telling you something, listen to your body. It's more important you do that than you listen to us. Absolutely. So if I say do this, it's the best thing ever and you do it and it feels like and honestly, that's the difficulty on our part is like, do we give them a very specific amount of reps because people follow things to the T and sometimes we're like, we got to give a little bit more of a range here. So if you aren't feeling like, if you feel like this is too taxing, you listen to that. Yeah. I also think he gave some pretty good nuggets though in there after talking for a while that I, and I know we said like, hey, on that third day, probably scale back the intensity, you know your body, but the coach in me too, you know, like, because he's got this bodybuilder background that he probably changed to failure almost every set. It's not the volume. Yeah, exactly. If he, I actually think if foundational day one, foundational day two, he actually truly followed it to a T and actually left two in the tank and everything like that. Day three, he would feel okay. I do. That's what I think too. Yeah. But because he didn't and he overreached and he probably is pushing. I think he's maxing out. Yeah. He's pushing it really hard than, okay. So, versus if you would just scale back on intensity a little bit on day one, a little bit on day two, and then day three, you'd be okay. But since we were, full throttle on day one, full throttle day two, well day three, now we got a really scale back. Exactly. Our next caller is Audrey from Pennsylvania. Audrey, how can we help you? Hi. I'm so excited to get to talk to everyone. Um, my first question pertains to maps performance. So, to start out, I'm a lightweight rower on the US National and due to some coaching complications recently, I haven't had any of my lifts programmed. So, I had initially bought maps performance to start in my off season. Um, but I started about two weeks ago because of those complications. Um, and I just started with phase one. I was wondering if that was the right phase to start with as I am about seven weeks out from world champs and was wondering if maybe starting with something like phase three to work on power and acceleration would be a little bit better for where I am in my season. Oh, great question. We're seven weeks out. The program's 12, right, Justin? So, I actually would try and we'd want her to end like right as the Yeah. Yeah. In terms of timing it out, like I think your intuition is pretty, pretty on point. Um, yeah, because the beginning we're trying to like create that base layer of strength and then move into more of the, um, inner type of strength. So phase three would be in timing wise in terms of having like, you know, another four, another eight weeks there to, you know, work on your power and conditioning. If that's the goal for you at this point, you know, to kind of go into your competition. I mean, that makes the most sense to you. You can shorten the phases to two, two, so that it ends at the right time. But I have some more questions for you because so I've trained some competitive rowers and, um, you guys have the most intense practices and training that I've seen with some of the athletes I've trained. Um, it's you guys, they beat you guys up quite a bit. So I need to know what your training looks like now before I can recommend how you follow mass performance because it may be too much in combination with your practices. So what do practices look like right now? Very good point. Yep. Uh, yeah. So we do two to three practices a day. Um, we're on the water at least twice a day. Um, we'll do a combination of like study state work and some faster, more intense, um, pieces. We do have two lifting days programmed in, um, already. So that's kind of what I was hoping to, you know, fill the gap with. Holy shit. Okay. And this is five days and this is five days a week. Yeah. But that means six days a week. Okay. So six days a week, which includes the two lifting days that they already typically will program. And so what you're trying to do is dropping those. And then we're replacing them. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, we have to do that. Is that correct? We're replacing those. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Here's my next question. How do you feel? And I don't mean like, because I know you're tough because like I said, I've trained rowers and for some reason it's like, everything feels great even when you're, when you're not so great. So how do you feel? Do you feel stiff, sore? Do you feel like you need more sleep, more recovery? Do you feel joint pain? This is going to really determine the direction of the most part. I feel pretty good. I do have, you know, when I'm down on the wonder, I do have a big emphasis on recovery and I use like mass prime for mobility. Perfect. So I think I do a pretty good job taking care of my body because like you said, it's a lot of hard work and a lot of wearing care. Okay. So here's how I would do the two days. I would do one day recovery focused. So mobility, recovery, maybe some core work. And then the other day is where you do, you know, one of the three performance workout and then you can pick one of the three from phase one. Yeah. One of the three foundational workouts from phase one. So instead of three, you're doing the two. Yes. Yeah. And then you do like two weeks. No, he's doing one. He's doing one foundational, one mobility day. Yeah. So her two days of training would be, she would pick one of the foundational days, any one she wants. And then her other training day would literally be a mobility day. Yeah. Mobility because, I mean, there's a difference between, you know, doing as much training as you can tolerate and then doing the most amount of training that's going to give you the best results. Those are two different things. So one is more than the other, but one gives you better results. So what we don't want to do, and here's a trouble that a lot of college athletes run into, is they do the most they could tolerate. They just keep going until they hit the red line. But what's happened there is they've actually gone past the sweet spot of maximum results. We'll also keep in mind when we wrote performance, we wrote it with the intent of this being the off season. Yes. Somebody's getting ready to go into the season. And if you're already training at that high of volume already, like I would never let you go through MAPS performance the way it's laid out. It's just too much. Yeah, we wrote that without you practicing like in between. So, you know, their points are valid. I think, you know, if you are to do those workouts, I would definitely like keep the load down, like keep the intensity a bit down, just really like hone in on the skill and the technique and the connectivity that you're going to get from that. So I think like that speed power, like you really want to keep the weight down and really get like that explosive technique. Yeah. So again, so just to just to lay it out, right? You got your practices. The first workout day where you're doing, you know, where you're lifting is mobility focused recovery, mobility focused. The second one, you pick a foundational workout from MAPS performance. And then as far as the phasing is concerned, you can do each phase two weeks each. So that gives you six weeks. And then you have that week before you compete, which you would prop, which I would probably have you take off or focus entirely on mobility so you could peak for competition. Or she could reverse it out. She could say you're trying to end the program at seven weeks. And so then back up seven weeks in the program and start there. But you want to have some time before your competition where you're, like you're allowing your body to go a week or two. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. I also don't think I'll have access to Jim for the week of, and maybe the week before. Okay. So that's perfect. And then there's another part to your question. I noticed here that you're, because you're a lightweight, you have to keep your body at a certain weight, right? Yeah. Okay. So as a lightweight, I have to weigh in at 125.6 pounds two hours before racing. And previously in doing this, I had focused on a one to one ratio of protein intake and body mass. I think it worked pretty well to maintain my strength through the cut. I was wondering if, you know, maybe you had one or two other pieces of advice to focus on to help maintain the strength as I come down. What's your body weight right now? I'm at about, like 134. Okay. So you got a drop weight while going, as you're going into competition then? Yes. Okay. And you don't, you guys don't do the cuts like wrestlers do or whatever, right? I hope you don't do that because it's two hours before competition. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, be careful because you're going to compete two hours after you weigh in and you don't want to hurt your performance just to try to, to make weight. I like your one to one ratio. I would go because it's such, there's an anaerobic, anaerobic, you know, basically factors with the type of competition that you're doing, I would go higher carb, lower fat. I wouldn't go low fat, low carb, higher fat. You're going to need the carbohydrates for the stamina and endurance. So one to one, but make sure you don't keep the carbs too low. As long as the calories are low enough to get you down to that body weight, you're going to be totally fine. Okay. Yeah. She's not far from that weight and she has plenty of time. Yeah, totally. Do you have, so you already have mass performance. Do you have, I'd like to give you something to help you with recovery. I would like to see her with symmetry. I mean, it's an underlying issue. And, you know, it's just one of those things. Like it's always surprising every time I have like somebody go through that. Well, okay. So with rowing, you could have dramatic imbalances. Now is, I don't remember the names, but is this the one where you're, are you, do you have both sides, right? Do you have two or are you only on one side? Like what's going on here? Yeah. So it's a lightweight quad. I have two ores. Okay. So she's balanced. Yeah. So, do you have a clip or a video of you rowing with your team? I do. Yeah. Could you share it with my team? Could you send that over in the email that you've been in contact with? I'd love to like share that, share that clip when we post this video. Yeah. That'd be awesome. Very cool. All right. Thank you. Well, good luck to you. Thank you. Bro, the, the, I've, you know, most of my clients were, I don't think I've trained somebody at that level. Three fucking times a day. I'll never forget. There's two, there's two athletes I trained that I literally thought they were making it up with the type of training. It was Polo, Polo, Polo athletes. They live in the pool. Yeah. And then rowers, I couldn't believe the amount of volume of training that they did. Like, like she said, I'm not the asset because I just assumed that like she's still training and like, you know, leading into that, but all those practices on top of like training and working out, man, that's a lot of volume. Oh, it's insane. Full strength training. Oh, you cannot. No way. You can't risk her being so sore that it starts to hinder her rowing practice. Yeah. So it's like it has to compliment it, which is your advice of mobility first, so she help her recover from all that training than just one day of strength training. And that's all you want to mess with with someone like that much, that high of volume. Otherwise you start taking from her skill. People, that's a thing too. And we always talk about this, that there's this idea and because we know how much obviously or make you a better athlete, but it can also hinder it. If it starts to hinder your skills training, because nothing is going to make you better at your sport than getting really good at the skill of your sport. And so if you try to weight train so much to improve your sport, then it starts to hinder your skills training. You'll actually go backwards as an athlete. 100%. Look, if you like mind pump, if you like our information, head over to mindpumpfree.com. That's where we have free guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find all of us on social media. Adam is out on Instagram at Mind Pump Justin. Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump Adam. And you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump Sal. This one's really important and that is to phase your training. If somebody trains for a full year doing a bench press and they're always aiming for five reps, if you compared that person to a person who did a bench press where they did three or four weeks of five reps, but then they did three or four weeks of 12 reps and three or four weeks of let's say 15 to 20 reps and then they'll throw the end of that year you're going to see more consistent progress from the person who's moving in and out and less injury.