 This is the BOA, so what's called the BOA meeting to order. The first thing that we will do is open the hearing, the name of the property, and what we're here for. We have two purposes tonight. We are here for Martha Levin's request to abate her amount of $3,833.45. This is parcel ID number 430675, and the location of the property is at 675 Long Meadow Hill in McAllis, and the other reason we're here is, oh I forgot, the reason that Martha is asking for this abatement is she believes it's a manifest error or a mistake of the listers. The other reason we're here is to abate small amount of taxes, as will be explained by the Charger when we get to that. Okay, so the next thing we need to do is to ask everybody to raise their right hand. Okay, and this is the oath. Under the pains and penalties of perjury, do you solemnly swear that the evidence you give in the cause under consideration shall be the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Yes, unanimous yes. All right, thank you everyone. Does anybody have a conflict of interest that they would like to disclose, or any ex parte communication that they might have had? Another chair, there's one right there. So I'm just gonna ask, we just went through the beginnings of this. I'm just gonna ask you guys to raise your right hand and I'll swear you in. There you go. Okay, under the pains and penalties of perjury, do you solemnly swear that the evidence you give in the cause under consideration shall be the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do. Okay. Everybody's married. I don't think I'm giving any evidence. No, but that's what the oath is. We were just going through the procedures. Anybody have a conflict of interest or ex parte communication on this matters? Reed, you're here representing the leavens. I don't think I'm representing them officially. I'm just here in case information is needed. Okay, I just wanna make sure that. I don't think, I don't have any statement in writing from my, but she knows I'm here. Okay, and she's received a copy of the procedures. She received everything but except for some Lister cards and that kind of thing. Okay. Okay, we identified that the statutory abatement request is based on taxes in which there's a manifest error on the stake of the Listers. And you said you don't really have anything to say on behalf of the leavens. All right, so. Do you wanna do the minutes or is that what, that was kind of the first thing on the agenda? Yeah, I thought maybe we do that at the end, but instead that way we don't hold up. Okay, Reed and. So, can I just interject? Yeah. There's this financial declaration here that Martha circulated to you. Right. Which should be admitted in evidence. Yes, we can do that. This is the brief history. Did everybody read the history? Yes. Well, the thing I have is. Is it this, Reed? This is supplement, yeah. Well, it's a supplement. Number five. Yeah. The abatement hearing request. Yeah. Yeah. I guess that's already automatically admitted in evidence, come to think of it. Right. Right, it was part of what she submitted. Right. So, should we review this history? Folks? Excuse me? I'm answering the question. I don't know if we need to review the history. I'd like to review the history. Yeah. If we want to not review the document we don't have to, we can hear from the listeners. Yeah. Yeah. I think it'll be quick. We can tell the story. It'll be fast. Yeah. And then the page after that, that our pressure has been given the correct amount that we'd be able to do. Yeah. Okay, let's hear from the listeners. Okay, so the listeners year runs April to April in the middle of April of 2016, the Levins House burned down. And in 2016, we thought we had taken the house out of the list of card. In any case, we did abate in 2016 the amount that was to be evaded and that was listed in. That's the 3369, 69? Yeah. The last, the last, the abatement was 3490, 60 in 2016. It's the last page of your documentation in here. Oh, okay, sorry. That was 2016, was the abated amount and that's about the date. Okay. Yeah, it's right at the end. Okay. There it is. Okay, got it. Okay. We thought that we had, we, the listeners, thought that we had taken off the house when we corrected for the abatement in 2016. But I guess this would be what I would call a normal snafu in that everybody thought everybody had taken it off and we didn't take it off. And so in 2017 came along the full appraisal was issued on 2017 and the leavens paid the full amount in 2017. Okay. Which was, which was $6,900 that they paid in their taxes. Whether, the other thing that could have happened is we thought we had saved it and we didn't save it. It doesn't matter, we goofed in that their house did not get taken off. Okay. So it was stayed on again for this year and this year they caught it. And we caught it in August and made changes so that the current list of card is what you, we have in this document somewhere here. Current list of card which reflects the value of 247,300. And that's the value that they should have had for 2017. Okay. Which they did not have. Yeah. And so what Sandy did is calculated the abatement based on the assessment that's there at 247,300 and what they should have paid in 2017. So the abatement that Sandy came up with is 38,502,62 cents. And you recommended that we. Oh, absolutely. Yes. Okay. Absolutely. It's got to be, I mean that's, I'm surprised that they didn't come in earlier. So, but their record is now correct and they will not get another high bill. It's going forward, yes. So let's have one, go ahead. I do have a question. I know that the statutes allow either to refund or to credit to future payment. Was there anything specifically requested in the way of? I don't see where they requested anything specific of we do, you know? I'm sorry, I missed the question. Do you know whether they want to have this credit applied to next year's taxes or they want to refund? I suspect they want to re-say that. She's in Toronto right now and can be contacted. Oh, don't. Oh, I was just going to move that we abate the taxes for 2016, thank you, it's 15 for 3852 and 62 cents. Okay, I don't, I think the question is though, does she want to check or does she want to credit? I would. Credit it to next year? Yeah, that's the option. Yeah, I don't, I think that everybody was, I was thinking it would just be a check. Yeah, it's nice to have that record. Right, so let's do that. Can we amend your, or can you amend your motion to include that if you refunded via a town check? I'll second the motion. Is there any further discussion or comments? Okay, all those in favor please say aye. Aye. Any opposed hearing none. All right. Who's going to write up that decision? I can't bring it once you want to. I'm not volunteering. I just think we need the documentation. Yeah, we have to write up the decision. Yeah. So I'll wait, Katie's really good about getting them in it. So I will get that done, I'll see you. You're welcome. I just have one more question. Yes. Are her taxes paid in full for this year? I believe they are, let me just check on that. I think they are. All right, so they didn't have the first one. You might have withheld the second payment. I'm pending this. Is there a balance bill? No, they don't own it, but we don't have to. Yeah, it should appear that way. No, you can't aid it. Oh, nope. November 15,000. Maybe we'll have balance papers passed and maybe we'll have to change our motion. But it may have come in and Sanders is going to find out. Right. So if we do to evade something, does it, just the mechanics of whether or not it's in a refund form or will we send a check matter for our motions? I think so, yeah, because if there's the option and she didn't say, then we should decide how we're going to mechanics of it, what and how it's going to be done, but her taxes haven't been paid, and maybe we should hang in here for a while and for a minute. But it wouldn't change the amount of your payment. No, it wouldn't change the amount, just to depend on whether it's credited. The taxes for 2018 are paid in full, so we're good. All right, Sandra, are you ready? Yes. You want to join us? I can't see you. I'm not going to join you. I'm over-weighting because I've now brought something up, just as a reminder that if you printed these out at home, you can show them or put them in your roof fire place so they're not just floating around. Right. Yeah, I was just thinking also more of once where you're getting a copy of a tax return page or something, that's right. This is probably confidential. Go ahead, Sandra. Hi, hi everyone. Is everybody on stand right? Hi, thanks, though. Oh, sorry for my back, I'm going to just stand over here. All right, I've got to go. Thank you, Ray, Ray. Bye, Ray. As you all know, probably know, the tax collection after for 2018 has closed. It closed at 4 o'clock PM on November 29th. So payments coming in after that date are delinquent. And we do have a delinquent list. There are nine taxpayers on our delinquent list who owe less than $5. So for a total of $11.40. So the purpose in gathering you together, since you've already were going to be here, is to ask if you would authorize Mayes Treasurer and also as Delinquent Tax Collector to abate those small amounts. And in support of that request, I will tell you that the cost of postage, as you know, is busy cents. In addition to mailing the bill for at least one taxpayer for one cent, we must provide an envelope. We need to print off a warrant. We need to print off the delinquent tax policies. We need the ink for that and the paper, as well as the administrative time. I would suggest to you that it is not efficient cost-wise or time-wise to pursue these small amounts of taxes. I consulted with the town attorney who said that the best way to deal with small amount of taxes owing is to bring them to you, the board of abatement. There is no category under the abatement statute into which this neatly fits, but there also isn't any clear statutory authority to address small, uncollected amounts in any other way. At least bringing it to the board of abatement creates a record of the decision and action, and it takes the delinquent tax collector and treasurer off the hook. So what I would ask of you tonight after you ask any questions you may have is for someone to make a motion to abate small. I just have a question. Are these all amounts that are owed, or is any of them a refund? No, no. These are all delinquent amounts. These are all amounts owed in 2018 only. And I would ask that after the board reflects on this information for a motion to allow going forth the treasurer and the delinquent tax collector to abate amounts of $5 or less, providing that the total of those amounts does not exceed $25, in which case we would reconvene in those years and you can take a look at what is going on. What we really don't want to do is send a message that you don't have to pay the last $5 of your taxes, because when you have 1,000 tax bills going out, 5 times 1,000 actually ends up being more than you would want to give up, probably. So I would suggest we put a little bit of a control, a little break in your decision. But I also really hesitate to call you in year after year for amounts such as this, which equal $11.40. You just beat me to it. Where I was going as soon as we voted on the first group. So why don't I make the motion on the first group that we abate as recommended by you? OK. I have a question. Yes, ma'am. Do you know what's the next highest or lowest, I guess would be the case, amount owed? I mean, is there anybody who has $11, $12? That next amount is $9.63. So now this is a delicate balance, right? Because now you're starting to say anything under $10. And again, I would. Keep it at 5. I would just caution the board that if the amounts of the, if you're giving me the latitude to push the button, I think you want to draw a circle around how much you're willing to give up. So the $11.10. And $9.63. That's not included in this group? No. These are all amounts, I'll tell you what the amounts are. Under $4.23, $2.02, $1.70, $1.54, $0.83, $0.77, $0.30, $0.01. Sounds like a poem. Yeah, I agree with you. Am I going to give you another chorus? Two turtle dogs. Janne has a question? It's just a comment. Somebody once told me that just to write the check and publish a check, it costs $7. More. Just to do the check, let alone the mail and sending it out and blah, blah, blah. So I don't even know. I mean, $5 is small, but. Well, frequently, it's been my experience that these small checks don't often get cashed. Oh, excuse me, I'm thinking of overpayments. Never mind, we're back to delinquency. So these are delinquencies. They owe us. I think we also need to think about our neighbors who really just wrote a check for a penny or so. Or their check, it just was you couldn't read it or whatever. I just don't really think it's OK to ask somebody to come in and pay a penny or even 37 cents. So there's a motion before us. Is there any further discussion? Are you ready to vote? I want to be clear on the motion because she complicated it a little by suggesting that we have essentially a policy that would continue beyond this year. And I'm reluctant to. OK, that's a separate motion. All right, are you ready to vote? All those in favor, please say aye. Any opposed? Tina, did you not vote? I didn't vote. I don't have. I need to think about this. Just debating these small amounts, you have to think about, you mean? Well, I'm thinking the statute doesn't provide it. My immediate response is we need to go to Janet or somebody and say, let's clean this up. But in the meantime, that's not happening. And we've checked with the town's attorney who said it was fine to abate these small amounts. When the beam was taxed a couple of years ago, we went through, we had three or four pages. I don't know what we used on statutory authority to do it. It might have been the other column or whatever it is on there. But I know we did do something historically that abated all of these small amounts. And I don't remember what we used statutorily. But I know it was a long list. I know we did it because you and Nadine had a long list. And we didn't establish a policy to abate small amounts because technically by statute you can't do that. So it's kind of a conundrum because there's really no way to do it. You shouldn't have a policy, but it just makes it nice to have it cleaned up. I think it was OK to call it a manifest error because it didn't say who made the manifest error. It could have been the error of the person writing the check to us. I mean, it doesn't say. So I mean, I think everything was lumped under there. So you must do this every year. Or every year or two? Because I don't remember when we did it with Nadine. It might have been was before Sandra took over. I can just tell you the experience in the office of having somebody drive down here to give us a nickel. And they are very, very angry. Of course. And it's very embarrassing. And I don't want to have to do that. Of course. I think they had to come down because there were periods of time that when Nadine was in the Lincoln Tax Collector where she didn't know she had the statutory real authority to abate them, she thought it was just that we had to do that. So we just said, you've got to go pay this nickel or 25 cents or whatever it is. Yeah. Well, you know, it's really easy. There's so many things that you that are statute things that you've got to do every year. And you've got a list of them. And you probably have when you vote on various things at various times. And you can just stick this on the list for a certain time of year after all of the taxes. Right, like now. Yeah. And so we can just do this as a matter of course every year. And it just is routine. Somebody could take it to the legislature and try to clean it up. But I'm not sure that's what we want to do right now in this decision. But we don't want to let them pile up too much either. So if we had a. We do this annually. I think it's the best way to do it. And Tina, if you would like to write up a letter for all of us to sign to send to the legislature, that would be fine. OK. I feel better about that. It doesn't hurt to ask them to clean it up. Because it isn't clear in the statute. And there is no real good statutory way to do it. But I don't think they're going to do anything to us for $11.40. Scott? Sandra, you mentioned overpayments where they send us too much. Is there a similar issue there? There is a statute not entirely on point to our town that says overpayments of $10 or less are turned into the general fund of the town. We don't have a policy for overpayments. Most folks want their overpayments refunded to them. And this year, because state payments were so delayed in getting here, we have very significant amounts of overpayments for our taxpayers, roughly $32,000. We have any little bitty ones. There might be a couple of one-centers, which actually the board really doesn't have any authority on those, I will call those taxpayers and ask them if we can credit it to next year's tax pay. I was going to say, we could just credit anything under $10 to following year or something like that. But I think that probably this statute is really old and it probably needs some updating. But I'm sure the legislature is probably not going to be on the top of their priority list. But it doesn't hurt to ask them, because it seems like it would be an easy thing for them to do. 250 towns are dealing with it every year. So Sandra's other request was going forward. And I'm not sure that we haven't done a policy. I know Eastmont-Pillier has a policy, even though technically you're not supposed to do it. I believe Eastmont-Pillier, when I checked on this before, has a policy. But we decided not to do a policy, because statutory really aren't supposed to. So I'm not sure how folks feel about Sandra's request going forward to a date, or whether you want to just try to meet once a year and do this. What are your thoughts? Yeah, it seems to be the latter. The latter? Excuse me? Meet once a year, which establishes something like that. It could snow go on to a large amount. Right. Small payments that don't get made. Okay. All right. So we'll plan to meet once a year after tax season and see what there is that needs to be abated. I guess mainly I'm totally in favor of meeting, but I just wouldn't want to meet just to do that. So if there's any way for it to be meeting, or if we're already looking at a board meeting, or even if it's not, I don't know, earlier in November, but. Right. To meet for five seconds. Right. We could say. And it's a lot of work to get everybody. I mean, when people don't respond to the emails that Judy sends out about meetings, it makes it really hard. You have to call everybody or nudge people. So if you can just keep that in mind when you see an email like that. It would have to wait until the delinquent list is finalized. Is assembled. Yeah. Right. Which isn't until after the last, after the grace period ends, so. But we'll try to keep that in mind. Yeah. If we were able to make a policy when we weren't supposed to right now, we could still make a policy when we weren't supposed to in October. What I'm saying is we happen to be meeting for a board of abatement and we're intending to for another three months. Mm-hmm. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. Good point. Okay. The next thing we have to do is the minutes from the Hawkins. That was a long time ago. I did read them. The only thing I noticed was Nell's name is 1-L-N-2. I was laughing because I was thinking, I'm sure I wasn't at this meeting. And I was so... Is that good word for me? And I guess you were. I guess I was. I guess I made a motion. But, okay. So, it came back. Who gets suggested changes? They would go to Katie to make. Katie, I don't have an H at the end of the panel. Thank you. One H. Got it. Anything else? All right. I would make a motion that we approve the minutes of May 14th, 2018, which was continued to June 11th, 2018. Second. Any further discussion or changes? Hearing none, all those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? I wasn't present at the meeting, so you're saying... Yeah. Does anyone know how things went for the Hawkins later? They paid in full this year. And they received a property tax adjustment credit. So, they got things straightened around all the way. So, they got some houses on the market. And they've had some interest in their house. So, the last time they came in, they seemed a little more hopeful. Yeah. Okay. I felt bad about that. Yeah, me too. Yeah, me too. I mean, once I remembered it, I can't have some mess. But we did things the way that we had to. That's the only thing we can do. All right. Anything else before the Board of the Batement would like to discuss or other business? Okay. I'll get the decision ready. And I guess, shall I sign it around for folks to look at? What is this? The decision on the March 11th thing that I need to write up. Oh, yeah. Just to take an email. Email it, and I'll give you a drop-dead date like I don't hear from you. You can send me that. You dropped it. Yeah. Right? No. No. Okay, I'll take that back. I'll take that back. All right. Does somebody want to make a motion to adjourn? My motion would be adjourned. All right. Thank you. Second. Thank you. You don't have to second it. All right. All those in favor? Aye. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. That's a great piece of paper. Cheers, package. Thank you. I want some more. Yes, I love everything you said, Judy, as needed. Right. But she, yeah. And then in that case, she's still reporting to the select board because Sandra's an employee. Right. Yeah, I don't have a problem with that at all. Yeah, okay. It's a good idea. But being really clear, and also I suppose being clear with Judy, I mean, you know, just so that we're clear up front so that it's uglier when there's actually an issue when you're trying to be clear then. Okay, I will draft up a letter. Would the board like to authorize Sharon and I to work on that letter? Are you available? Yes, I will. Second. All right. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. And just so you know, there have been some preliminary discussions in the staff meetings that Denise and I have participated in, talking about some of those concerns. Okay. This will not be a surprise. No. They'll just be glad that it's done. Well, yeah. We should make sure that our motion actually reflects that we're approving this, not just writing a letter. Oh, I thought you were sorry. Well, it was applied, but we didn't say it. We didn't say it out loud. Okay. All right. Are you upset, Katie? So did we make a motion to appoint Barbara as the talent auditor? That's what I'm saying. Right. So I think maybe we, okay. So let's go back. Let's do the appointment first and then the letter. Okay. So you made a motion to appoint Barbara Butler? You made a motion to appoint Barbara Butler. To be a talent auditor for Calis. Second. To be a talent auditor for Calis, is that what it's called? Yeah, Calis-Town Auditor. Yeah. All right. Is there an expiration or it's a one-year term? I have to look, I think it's an annual appointment. So we'll probably have to do it again after- March? March. I have to look at the charter for sure. That would make sense to put her on the same cycles. Yeah. And then the motion has to appoint her for the duration. Oh, we didn't vote on this one yet. Wait, well, it's good to amend it though. Yeah. Before we vote. So you're amending your own motion to say for- The duration of this. This term. Term, right. Okay. I'm trying to suck and do that. All right. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right. Now I would like the board to authorize Sharon and I to work on a letter of employment. So moved. Second. Okay. And that means you authorize me to sign it. I suggest it go. Yes, yes. Right? Okay. Okay. Very good. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Okay. All right. Do you- I'm going to just skip around just briefly because this comes under old business and I don't want to muddy the waters and we'll talk about the warning and the budget and all that. I want to be able to focus on that. If you remember, I told you we had gotten a letter, an NOAD from the state of Vermont Department of Health about asbestos. Yeah, yeah. Over at the town hall. We hired Clay Point Associates to come in and backtracked. They found no asbestos about a clean bill of health. The last thing to do is we need to, and you can call that letter up on your clip. I drafted a letter to send back. This is the last piece that we have to do as the board or as the select board. And you'll see it when she calls it up. So that's the Gmail associated with this? Right. This is this guy from the Department of Health saying this is one last piece that you need to do for the cash compliance letter. Could you authorize representative of the town? Oh, blah, blah. So I drafted a letter that's in the Google folder. I think it's that second one, the asbestos. Yeah, is it a Word document? Yeah. It's up at the top, I think. Oh, there it is. Yeah, yeah, there it is. Just short and sweet until the point, really, to this Chris. Do we want to spell out what NOAD means? Does it say that anywhere in the letter? It's the notice of alleged violation. Well, that's on what they sent us. Right. But if this is going to stand alone, just to have it say. Well, it's going back to the people that issued it to us. But the founder right can spell it out. It doesn't matter to me. And it's on the case file. It just isn't intuitive to me when I look at it. But if it's always going to live with that. Yeah, because like in five years or 10 years, if they're reviewing the files of our renovation and someone comes upon this letter, I didn't know what that meant, either. Well, I guess it's because I used to deal with this kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe it's not a part of that language. I mean, it's all going to be all together, but I can just once. Just once. Just once. Yeah, I think I'm going to change it. Historic Calis Town Hall, notice of alleged violation. You have a file number. Yeah. Turn it around that way. They have the report from Clay Point Associates. That's already been done. And this is the required action item number one. And that language I got was recommended by Clay Point Associates to use that wording. So apparently, they must have done this before for people. Yeah, looks good. OK, any other comments, Cliff? No, looks done. I have a problem to tease here, so. By make that change at the top under the rail line, are you guys good for me to sign this? Yep. Yes. Get this out of the way. So is that a motion? It's a motion. Second. Early discussion, Rose. Oh, you're looking at invoices. I'm looking at invoices. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed, hearing none. All right, look, that's my medical object. We have a lot done. We did. Do you want me to update on the computer support? Yes, please. So when we last met, we talked about the proposals we've received from a couple of different IT support specialists that are based here in Vermont. The discussion then said maybe we should be turning it around and soliciting an RFP. So we wondered, is that a standard practice? What we did is Denise actually suggested this. We asked Judy to go through her network of talents and clerks. And see if other towns today have done something similar. And lo and behold, we get some really sterling examples of some RFPs that have been successful. And in that process. Found three more candidates? Well, we have found more candidates, yes. But also one of the towns that solicited an RFP ultimately contracted with Dominion. And so they must have talked to Dominion and said, well, we're going to share this RFP with Calis. Do you have any objections? And Dominion said no. But then they turned around and contacted us and said, well, we understand you're preparing an RFP. We want to make sure we're in on it. And oh, by the way, here's the RFP that was solicited by the town of Richmond. And we can help you write an RFP, which I'm sure they would love to do. You can tweak it for your own response. I know one of the Richmond select board members. But the bottom line is, yes, it is a practice. Not the only ones. We're having to reinvent the wheel here. So we'll go with the plan of looking to put something together and solicit some responses. We have that other new company that we found out about. That's great. And so we'll have the opportunity to shape and would assess what they need and what we want. So then the question is, when we talked about it last time, they said, when do we need to do this? Can we establish a budget number based upon the solicitations we've already received? Or do we need to get this RFP going sooner rather than later so that we have replies that we can? I don't see how we have time to do it well. If not to do it, good job. I think we can take the two numbers that we have. Plus, historically, we've given the RB technology. Right, as I'm talking about the two numbers, the RB tech and the proposed Dominion and come up with a line item. And then I really like the story that we're going to tell the town, which is this is a placeholder, and we are starting a process. We're going to go out to bid basically. Yeah, go out to bid so it's competitive. And so we get to define what the program is. Well, what I will do then is because she's already put an amount into the budget, it's called computer DRA on the budget. Right, but we asked her to change that. And we asked her to change it so it's a little more clear what it is. What is the DRA standpoint? Nobody knows for sure. Oh, OK. No, I don't. I'm like, do not resuscitate. That's why I keep thinking of DNA, computer DNA, so if they all die, we'll resuscitate. DNR. It's like disaster recovery administration or something like that, or recovery administration. So we asked her to just change it to computer support. Yeah, IT computer, IT support. IT service and support. Yes, IT service. That sounds good. I mean, that really kind of tells you. Yay. That sounds really good. And so I can come back at the next meeting and say, yes, I think this number is probably good, or maybe we should look to adjust it based upon what we know. And I like that we're not going to take them up. I mean, most purchase policies would say that you cannot contract with somebody who helped you take care of it. No, although I know from another lifetime when I was responding to municipal RFPs for a company that manufactured automated ticketing systems, that it was a very common practice for a vendor to, gosh, you guys are so overloaded. We can write a rough draft for you to get you going down the road. Yeah. And you guys can approve and take it from there. Well, yeah. We can just tell you what's common in these things. Well, we've got that from their RFI. So we really appreciate that. Thank you. That's right. I don't see any. You're not going to use that on the page? Anyways, I think you're our secret weapon, Cliff. Yeah. You're the ringer. Do my best. Service the town. All for the payment of? Right. $594 for taxes. All right, what's next on our list? Let's do budget and morning one more time. Now, Sandra is going to be coming in to meet with the board at our next meeting. So first off, we'll have next meeting. OBU will meet with Eastmont Player Select Board to go over the budget that is presented to us by Eastmont Player Fire Department this week, Thursday night, at 7 o'clock. See what they have to say. And I looked at their preliminary numbers. It looks like it's going up some. It's definitely not a lot, but we have the other issue of Woodbury Fire Department looming. Right. We've got to keep that in mind. And Sandra will be on to talk to us. It'll be good for her to be here when we're talking with Eastmont Player because we might set some numbers. And that's at 7 next week, right? Right. Do you have time? Right. And it's here. It's here. Yeah. Last year, we went to them. So that'll take a while, that discussion. I'm thinking at least 45 minutes, probably. And people from Eastmont Player Fire Department will probably show up, Ty. Ty will probably show up in Toby to probably answer any questions or listen to the discussion. And then Sandra would be on. And we're going to need to start really looking at the budget and making some decisions, some hard decisions about what we're going to do. Yeah. For the next time, I hope to have a warned item written by Jim for the assessor piece that we've talked about. We have to finalize the budget by January 7. But we're two meetings in December. We're not meeting because it's Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve or something like that. Some foolish holiday like that. Every once in a while, they come on a Monday. They come on a Monday. Right. They just kind of get in the way. So we're going to have a spell of like two weeks where we're not going to be able to talk about any of this. But we're going to have to make decisions. So really, Monday, December 17, we really, I think, really need to focus on. We'll have met with Sandra, gotten a health insurance update and what I want to do about that. And then the 17th will be our last meeting in this calendar year. Do we want to try to meet Denise to take that? Because you're right. We're losing. Two Mondays. Do we want to try to meet like on like Thursday the 27th? Because it's sort of in the middle of. Are you guys available? Are you available? I am available. I'm going to be off the roof of work Christmas and the roof of Christmas for a few years. So you're off the work, but you're here. Is that going to California? No. Katie, are you available? I'm 27th. Rose? Turn my page. Because we could just. What day? Oh, Thursday the 27th? I mean, we could strictly make it to do budget, count report, that kind of stuff and try to keep it to like an hour or something. And I mean, for that matter, I'm flexible. Cliff is flexible. Yeah, it's 28th works for me. Well, it doesn't have to. I'm wondering if you're working on the 27th? Yeah, I have to work till 6. Oh, OK. So I'm going to do it in the daytime. But I could do it in the day, but Rose is working. Right. Well, yeah. And I have a hair appointment in the morning. Just sit down. Do you know how many hair appointments I've canceled through the board and town stuff? Do you have any eyes to get a hair appointment in 10, 30? Getting your hair done, maybe we could all get appointments. We could topple under the direction of the day. I could do it in the evening. Friday the 28th, if you wanted to do it. The 29th? The 28th. Friday the 28th, I start work at 12 noon. So if you wanted to do like 9 to 11. Because the office is closed. Friday the 28th. I don't think I can do Friday morning. Because the office is closed on Fridays. So that's a good time for if we're going to meet during the day, a Friday would be the better option than trying to meet during the day when there's stuff going on. I can't. So Thursday the 27th. At 7 PM. Another calendar. Oh, you put it on the calendar already? I will. Oh, good. That gives us a meeting. Right, because I think we may really need it. Yeah, we'll have warrants or something. Right. All right. We can all bring our leftover Christmas cookies. All right, let's look at the warning first, because that's easier. I'm going to take out. I thought we could put this. I thought we could put the Santa Vermont State Police advisory board in. They're not really a social services agency. So last year, we just put it in the budget. But why are they different? Wait, wait. This is not the one you and I were emailing about. This is not the Peter Harvey report. It is. OK. So why are they different? They're not really a social services agency. It's a board, state police advisory board. So it's not like home health or it's for the county. It's not anything that a county's resident can go to and access services or what can you do for me. It's not a social service kind of thing. But you know there's friends of Winooski River, right? I mean, that was going through looking for you. But friends of the Winooski does do trainings and outreach and things like that. The state police advisory board is strictly appointees. It's a liaison board between the Vermont State Police and each of the towns that they cover in our area. And each town appoints two people to serve on the board. And this $100 just is like I did go last January to the meeting and the unit commander for the male sex barracks retired. So they had refreshments and cake and whatnot. So they just need a little bit of money in case they have to chip in for pizza or something. But OK. So I'm going to just keep pushing on this. Cliff, can you roll up to the article, please? Shall the voters in appropriate indicated sums as requested for the following organizations? There's nothing that we call it social services, but it doesn't say social services. I think that's the way it's always been interpreted, that it's mainly social service agencies. How friends of the Winooski, you're right? I don't know, again, do we want to make a big deal on over $100? No, absolutely not. No, what I liked about it, though, is the transparency of all the onesie twosie stuff being the same. That's discretionary. It's not funny. Wow, business. In the kids on page 25, but it's under 6,800 social service appropriations. That's how it's labeled in the budget. 25. Mr. Vermont State Police? Well, I'm saying all of these organizations this is how it's shown. Right. That's the primary. Where is it now? Because I couldn't find it initially here. 6521. No, this is Vermont State Police advisory board donation. I don't know where. It's not in here. 6524. Did we do this last time? We did. 6524, Sharon's saying. Yep, right under the Solid Waste Management District and dog expenses, which are both real things. Those are things that cost us money to do stuff for town. Oh, Vermont State Police advisory board. It's all initials instead of starting out. Yeah, $100. So I guess it's more in line with things like Solid Waste Management. That's for a service, though. When we pay, right, we're paying for a service to the Solid Waste Management District. And we're certainly paying for a contract and services to the Central Vermont Humane Society, which is the line below it. Like I said, it's $100. I don't want to make a big issue out of it. I don't care where it goes. It needs to. Peter asked that we have the $100 again. Yeah, no problem with that at all. I like it there. I guess that's maybe that's the focus. That's when I was thinking about it where it seemed to me it made sense for it to go. But that's not where it's historically gone. Right. But we're all about making things make more sense. Right. I guess I don't have a preference either way, although I understand the importance of that $100. And I wouldn't want somebody to stand up at town meeting day and get nitpicky about it. That's true. That's another piece. They're not asking for more than $100. Yeah. And historically, I think we've given them just a very small amount of money, $50 or now $100. You make a really good point about that. We wouldn't have to label it new, though, because it's not a service. No, no, no. Right. So we wouldn't have to call it out in any way. I mean, typically, these things slide through. We had the increase last year to the better women's service thing. Typically, people don't. We used to get a lot of discussion when it was the library we came in here. Well, right. Yeah. I never mind. I won't try to sell through the entertainment value of all of those discussions over the years, where somebody would say, let's reduce this one. Somebody else would say, that's great. Let's take that money and put it here. Right. We would end up with a net increase. But you know what, when you do all of these social services things, I was just looking at the payments for all of these types of things, it's $55,000 between this $24,000 and some of these other appropriations that we have. It comes out to quite a bit of money, $55,000. But this adds up to $24,000, this line, this group. But I'm talking about different other appropriations that are fixed amounts. Like I said, it's $100. I don't want to spend all night talking about it. Right. Yeah. So you decide, doesn't? But you do raise a good point about it, could get shot down. And again, when you look at the titles of these, to me, they're places where you go to access services. People's Health and Wellness Clinic, the senior center, from an association for the blind, independent living. So most, yeah, most, but not all. And that's kind of the connection. I mean, you got the old West Church, which isn't necessarily a placeholder for them. Greenup, Vermont is a placeholder. For even friends of Winooski, they do a lot of services in the town and other towns. So I think we just, I'm sorry. You leave it wherever you want to put it. I like the idea of putting it in here, because I put it there. But I think it needs to go back to where it was. All right, what else are we talking about? All right. We confirm there's no increase in the telecovered library. Sandra had reworded the articles for the taxes. Sharon did that? Yeah. Yeah. And I thought that was very good. Yeah, me too. Thank you for doing that. You're welcome. And so on this one that was just, did she go by any postmarks? Sandra? I'm going to ask her at staff meeting. Oh, OK. I thought that might be a better time to bring up the issue. Yeah. And then I was looking at the minutes. When we get the minutes done, I will forward them to Craig. And I made actually a change after you saw them, because there was a, I was thinking about later in the day, and I realized there's a point that we talked a lot about here that actually wasn't in the minute. So we're going to get to that. Because I thought that's the best way to address Craig's concern is to send them a copy of the minutes, where you see that the whole board talked about it. Well, and really it's a. And give it to Sandra, too. And also it's a thank you for raising the issue. And the real problem is that we didn't have that in the wording. In the wording. So we're correcting that. Right. I did. I thanked them before I said thank them for pointing it out that we needed to clarify it. So, and then of course Jim will review the whole warning before we print it anyways. So another good reason to have that extra meeting in December. I'm assuming we want to put the Woodbury fire department. We need to have them come back in and talk to us. Maybe the 17th, I would ask them. Because they were going to have a board meeting. Because we raised the issue about this is a lot of money all at once. And they were going to have a board meeting. So I think I'll ask Woodbury fire department to come in on the 17th. Chance and Paul. And see what they talked about at their board meeting. Did their figures change? But I think we should put this on as an article. And not just put it in the budget. Because it's the first time. Absolutely. But it's being asked for. The assessor. So that's kind of, I think that's pretty much it on the warning again. We decided to take the grandeur or whatever it is out, right? That's what I would suggest. Because you don't really have to have it. Does everybody agree? If I can take that off? Yeah. It doesn't really serve any purpose. Yeah. They never did anything anyways. And now they've got even less to do. Well, it used to. Ages go to the ages. Right. Not now. Yeah. All right. So let's talk about budget here. Anybody want a heart copy? I do. Yes, absolutely. And we asked Sandra to turn in with the notes. Which is great. Really great. Do you want one of these? You do look up on that. Oh, you bet. I think I can look at it. Yeah, it didn't look, it didn't, when I viewed it online, it didn't, like, this was one page, and then the notes were different, actually. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Here is the cemetery. Thank you. This is where we're at right now with the cemetery. Commission. They have yet to finalize their numbers and get them to stand. So let's go, like we did last time, page by page. Let's start off with Select Board Administrator. It's really $550, which adds a couple thousand dollars to that line item for a year from Select Board salaries. We just talked about that. Are you guys good with leaving it where it's at? Yep. Credit pressure and fees. I don't know why we still have Father Gil and Cigali in here. Hang on, though. What are you looking at? The 1, the 4,200 for recording. We probably already did this, so that is. That was my best guess estimate. It calculated that much. You think that's high? I think it's a good guess, but it wasn't that much in the past year. Do you know what it was for a year? I'll have to pull it up. I don't know what off the top of my head. And then some of it, and then we would want that separate from Conservation Commission. Yes. I keep those separately, but you're right that the amount budgeted, like in fiscal year 18 and 19, did not include me doing anything other than take the minute. So I've been doing updating to the website and things like that. You've been doing a lot more. So I want to make sure we have enough money to pay you. Is that what you're seeing is about four hours a week? We didn't start doing that until this summer. So I've only been working few for one year at this point. And we started about in the spring time last year. Right, and then in the summer we added a lot of fees. And I can see, I think there's probably more that Katie could do eventually, that I want to make sure we have enough money to pay her. Yeah, it's not a lot. It's not a lot. Yeah. You know, we may have to true it a few hundred dollars when we go through and slash and burn. Right. Why don't I get the total for what it's been for a year? OK. From Sandra. Right, and then the Planning Commission is going to have that project that you're working on with Jan. So we've got to make sure we've got money in the Planning Commission budget for that. Which is separate. Right, entirely, yeah. I just think I like it to be separate so that everybody knows how much. Right, so they can unplug without professional fees, legal fees. I'd like to leave it at 15 because we don't know what's going to. And you're going to change the Father Gilsa galley? I don't know why that says Father Gilsa galley. Do you know? Well, I think it might be correct. Could just be accounting services or something instead of Father Gilsa galley. Yeah. Yeah, that was the explanation for FY 2018. Yeah, OK. OK, then audit, that's Sullivan Empowers, and that's the contract price that we signed. Website, yeah, we cut the select board line item for education and training because we're putting that in the various different boards and commissions line items. Copy or lease, that's set mileage. That's not a high amount. Volunteer dinner. When did we do that last year? We did it in October, and I'm looking to maybe this year, do it in January or February, sometime in between town meeting and the holidays because things just got too crazy for me to plan it. And we'd have to look at where to have it. Maple Corner or East Cal is the rec center. Both have kitchens. Root abatement, we talked about that with Sandra, and there was no place to put that figure in the previous years when we had that abatement. There was no place to put it in the budget line item, so that's why it went under miscellaneous. And it's just, it's good to have a miscellaneous column for who knows what might come up. Root abatement is just, that is a family, right? That was something when that $500 was spent, I mean when that $900 was spent or whatever it was, there was no place in the budget to put it, and there was a miscellaneous line item, so that's why two years ago it got put there. So the only request I have is that we change the explanation to. Well, change it for now. Change it for now, right? But it can just say tax abatements. It wouldn't even, and probably wouldn't even be that. Right. But it's just a miscellaneous. Et cetera, just to remind us. I just find it, I keep getting tripped on the root. On the root. I trip on the root. I trip on the root. Vegetable. Some of these explanations obviously are going to go away when we get, obviously, yeah. Into 20 years. But I still think, because I talked to Sandra about it, I still think it's a good idea just to have a few hundred dollars on a miscellaneous line item, because you don't know what's going to come up. You never know. Although we did talk to Sandra about relabeling it, possibly calling it unforeseen expenses or something like that. Yeah, I'm glad you did. Yeah, I'm glad you did. That's a, that is a big old red flag, well. Yeah, I think miscellaneous, I like, miscellaneous can be a lot of things. Yeah. Grants, I have to check in with Colleen and Josh and see if this is going to be, is this again this year. I talked to the Historic Preservation Commission about this CLG grant, and this is the one that they told us about they're going to apply for for Adamant Village. The most it would cost the town is four. Some of that could actually be, some of that 4,000 that could actually be in kind. So when we're doing slash and burn, if we have to, we could reduce that. What does CLG stand for again? Certified local government, town clerk wages. Just a town clerk, I guess we'll just leave that as it is for now, unless. Yeah, we need to talk about that. We need to talk about that. Yeah, this all, all of these need to go in a executive session on personnel issues, right? Yeah. Land records. Judy did some checking in, and the original quote of like I think it was 21, it might have been 21,000 or something, was not a searchable database. So what's not really helpful if it's not searchable? So she said, but what would it cost for it to be searchable? And it was a little over 30,000, but they think, and we're waiting for this guy from this Cots place to get back to us, and maybe we'll find out on Wednesday. They think that they can do it, but put the price out over three years, so it'd be like 10,000 a year, instead of 30 something thousand all at once. And that will include searchable. Well, but there's new information here. So digitalization of all index cards, that's all we're doing. Isn't that what it's supposed to do? I don't understand your question, I guess. This is the same project, but it's searchable. Right, what wasn't clear, I think, from the notes in the last one, is that we're only indexing, we're only doing the index cards, which is a different. Digitization, well, it says the same thing. It says digitization of all index cards. Then I just wasn't focusing. It's 1943 to 2011. Is that what you mean? Yeah, it's, I don't know, it's not everything it could be, right? No, probably not, what we may have to do. It's all right, it's, we're a small town, it's phases, and yeah. So the fact that we could do it over, pay for it over three years, is really good. Absolutely. There's additional comments on page three under general office expenses relating to the product piece. Well, let's wait till we get, let's wait till we get there. Okay, Mr. Wages, Mr. Fidgett. Yeah. From 3,000 to 8,000 to 12,000. Yeah. It would be nice to have some just math that was increased to Rose's point. Well, before we weren't really compensating. We had Eva, Randy Fitch, and... Cy, maybe? No. I forget, and they didn't put in much of anything for expenses, you know, wages. Mm-hmm. And then we went from that to Jan and John. And Wilson. No, Wilson just came on last year. Okay. And they were putting in some expenses, but they were really putting in a lot more time than what they were getting paid for. So that's why we agreed to go up. Yeah. To the 12,000, so I don't know what other explanation. Well, you're right, but it's a $9,000 increase. From FY, from... Oh, okay, never mind. You're right, you're right. It was budgeted this year as a 12th. Never mind. So we already did that big jump. Right. Never mind. I wouldn't know what it would cost for the assessor. This compared to an assessor. It's gonna cost more. We're budgeting 12. Yeah. Probably gonna be $36,000 or something for a person or a job. Yeah, it's an assessor or a salary. And that's another employee. Right. So, yeah. Unless they're an independent contractor, like the accountant. Well, but we might have the same result with that. You mean as far as the cost? I mean, with Solving and Pounders? No, never mind. No, just hiring a contractor. I mean, if you get a contractor who's really gonna do it, it's gonna be real money, I would think. Yeah. Yeah, so that's what we need to be thinking about. Okay, maps, 2000. What is this town clerk expense fewer maps? Digitizing survey maps. Can anybody understand what that means? Town clerk expense fewer maps? That part I don't understand. Digitizing the survey maps just means taking the maps that are, I think I don't understand what that means. I don't understand what they're coming from. Yeah. Does it mean that they lowered the budget at a mouth because there are fewer maps? No. That's how I interpreted it. You did? There's fewer maps that need it. Maybe. So we can ask Judy what this means. Yeah, maybe we got caught up on digitizing them and now it's just as they come in. And actually. We can make up lots of explanations. And actually, I'm almost thinking that when she wrote town clerk expense, the section up above says total town clerk. So is she thinking that maybe that line item should get put, yeah, moved under the town clerk's budget? No, maybe. Well, we can ask because we'll see them on Wednesday. Okay, Lister expense, post-digital education, so their budget is going up a little less than 2000. Treasure, that's another one we'll talk about in a second. Session when we kind of do a personnel review. Do we have insurance numbers yet? No. Okay. That's what we hope to have next week when Sandra comes in. Until we have some of those insurance numbers, it's really, that could really make a big difference. Right. Auditor, we did that, town reports. Electro-equipment taxes, election expenses are actually going to go down because we probably won't have, we don't have anything big in 2019. We don't have president, we don't have governor. Well, that's this fiscal year. All right, that's true. A special meeting of January meeting at 46. Oh, I'm talking about elections. I'm talking about elections with the president and governor and. You could wish for a special election for some positions. Oh, we could. What a presidential. Hold on, just hold on. We'll do it on our own. There you go. Take the initiative. All right. Now you're coming from before about. Contracts. General office expenses, contracts, numbering cuts, that's different than the digitizing. That's our contracts with them, right? Yeah, but I'm trying to understand how that ties in because it does say, you know, it includes 150 of cards digitized this year. Cut at 345 a month. This includes 150 of cards are digitized this year, meaning the, I think that this year they mean, we can get clarification. The $10,000, right? And isn't it saying that once the index cards and digitized the monthly fee. Which I don't have a problem with. Right. The one is the one is the work of getting them digitized. Right, which is that 31,000 or whatever. Maintaining the. Right. Maintain your subscription. Yeah. And that's includes NEMRIC. Okay, here we go with the data. Oh, here it is. Count DRA, we talked to Sandra about putting in IT support. For some reason it's, I guess it's supposed to say DRA, whatever that. Yeah, basically what she said is if you've had something in your budget and you've spent money on it. You have to leave it that way. You have to leave it. You can add additional descriptors. If you don't spend any money on it for three years then it can go away. Right. Yeah. For auditing purposes. So they go back to look at audits and they can track it. So we asked her to put in this IT support which explains what it, that's what it really is. Right. So there you go with that. Maintenance. Now we asked them what, okay, the maintenance item is includes the janitorial when somebody comes to clean here and they clean the town office. But it also includes water filtration, furnace cleaning, checking the septic. The maintenance of all the heating regulation, AC, et cetera. And when we, this is only the office. When the town halls back up and running, it would have its own maintenance. So. Line items. The 1600, this is on the maintenance line. Yep. One of the, it was 2000 this year budget, F819. Now it's 1600 but it says it's a 600 reduction. So is it a 600 reduction that we're gonna see somewhere else? You're gonna see it added to the facilities maintenance. Facilities maintenance, which is the line below. Okay. So it's more than 600 popping up there. And then the 1600, if we were taking 600 out and stopping, that would be 1400, not 1600. Right. But she said she backed out Andy, put it to 1400 and then increased the line. Okay. Right. Because we're adding a facilities maintenance line item. And I have no idea, I've just put in 2500 and he's still willing to do a lot of stuff for the $50 a month, including donating some of his time, which he's done over at the town hall already. Right. But there are gonna be times I think when it's gonna cost us a little more. But when you take those two lines together, because they used to all live in the maintenance line. The total proposed is 4,100. So it's more than double the 2000 from the previous budget. Yeah. FYI. Yeah. Good to keep that in mind. Generator, I think that's a pretty much a fixed cost. And it's going up because we agreed to pay the school's portion, remember? Yeah. Telephone might go up because we've been adding two additional lines because of the new system, advertising, postage. Yeah. We spent more on supplies in FY 18 than we had budgeted. We budgeted 25 and we spent 39. This current year we're at 3000. And you think we gotta go up 1500 more? We budgeted plus the 1500 below it for equipment. Let's see where we're at. Yeah. Let's see if I can find it. Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, so that's doubling. That's another double. Yeah, let's see what we spent so far. Okay, so far to date, which is this is through June 30th. We budgeted 3000. We've spent $2,441. We have $558 left and it's not even January. For the next six months. I don't think so. And that's on supplies? Yeah. So those are like paper towels, papers, because these are not buying stuff that is then gonna last for a long time. Right, that's my understanding of what it is. So when they're talking about supplies, yeah, it's office supplies. Yeah. Maybe we bump it to 3,500 when we go through and flash and burn. But we can ask about this. We can ask about this. And how supplies are different? From equipment. Well, I think like equipment is solid things, right? Do we capitalize it? No, obviously we don't. We do now not for things like bio cabinets and things like that. Dedicate copy or printer for the treasurer. Yeah, because what happens now with this new copier, you have to yell out, I'm printing in hope that somebody else hasn't printed and... Doesn't have a big document. Right, and then all of her tax bills, she has to reprint because... And that all goes to there? The tax bills and stuff, she wants her own dedicated printer to print those kinds of things, checks, tax bills so that she doesn't have to yell out from her desk. I'm printing checks, but somebody else hits the button at the same time, so their document gets printed on the blank checks. So then you waste a whole ton of blank checks. Well, not to mention financial sensitivities. Well, that was the other piece. She'll print something and nobody steps on it, but then something happens and she can't go grab it off the printer. Right, and they're talking. No, if we're talking about this copier over here, the other problem is that this is the one the lawyers use when they're... So this is the public copier, too. Well, yeah. So she's looking for her own dedicated printer, which I don't think is... That's not that. That's not that. 300 bucks. Yeah. And we talked about how they might all want desks and get rid of the cloud cap, the countertops. New chairs. And new chairs, which they're gonna look into the... Ergonomic things. Yeah, the massive grams. Ergonomic. Actually, the initial response on that to come back in, yes, the grant is applicable to ergonomic chairs that has to fulfill some certain requirements. But basically they said, yeah, you can go over staples and find some chairs that fulfill these requirements and get them to qualify. Yeah. It seemed pretty straightforward. So that provides some relief. Good. Yeah. We don't need accountants. We're already warm. We don't use them anymore, but we have to leave it for three years. Three years away. This is the benefits piece. We're hoping to get more information next meeting. Well, yeah. So I'm just looking at the, is that this town office section doesn't have any big questions left in it, right? We've been kind of raising one of the, but there's no big blanks. No. So that one is in overall is close to doubling. That section is one. Well, we have, oh, I know because of the, the office fund, the town office fund. And then we were pointing out as we went through that. Well, we got also, the reason it's also increasing is because it's probably gonna cost us more for IT support. That's a significant increase in that line item. And it looks like these cuts and numeric monthly fees are going up. So that's your two biggest line items in this whole section that we don't have a lot of control over. And the town office fund for the 15,000, that's like a capital reserve fund. That's that reserve fund that we established and we decided it should be broken out into so much for town office, so much for town hall. The, I think it's cleaner that way. The IT support, I think if my math is right, is a 15% increase. Yep. I think that's about what it is. So on a percentage, it's a bigger number than some of the others, but on a percentage basis, it isn't double and there were a lot of doublings. Can I say you got to go forward? Yep, we can go forward. Yeah, I think these are the ones that we come to slash and burn, we have to look at really closely. Right, but if we want really good IT support, we're going to have to spend some money. Right, but I think- There might be some other opportunities. I think I'm suggesting there may be opportunities in other areas. Oh yeah, we will slash and burn in other places, we have to. And like I said, we said last time, this is like everybody's wish list right now, including ours. Can only tax, we still don't have that. That's usually one of the last things we get. And we decided to leave the Vermont State Police Advisory Board in this section, correct? Yep. Yes. So we need to put that $100 back in. So we need to remember to. We need to also be thinking about our zoning people that don't want to do this forever, and it's probably going to cost us more money. We need to be thinking about that, add more dollars. Planning commission, we need to put in a figure that Katie's going to try to help us with. Jen, they're talking tomorrow. Yeah, okay. Going up quite a bit. Fire and Ambulance, hopefully we'll have the East Montpelier stuff this week. Conservation fund is going up a little bit, but don't forget that's because we transferred a couple hundred dollars from our budget line item to planning conservation for training. Right. I was just looking to see if we had any questions from last week that we got answers to. Oh, tax abatement, that section was added. That's a new section because you'll see all zeros. I don't know how we figure out what kind of a number we're putting in there. From the route abatement. Yeah, the route abatement, 900 dollars. I don't understand how we can have a line item for this, because how do you know? Yeah, I was thinking about that earlier when we were on the route abatement. Like why would you want to budget for that? I don't have time to know. It's like an invitation to say. Yeah. I like it better as an explanation for miscellaneous. That and other things. Okay, social services stuff. Judy had to add a deadline for this, for these. And I don't remember now what the deadline was, but it's coming up. So if these add up to $50,000 in total. Were these and some other things, like color-covered libraries in there? But we've got heard from them. Right, central and non-solowice management, that's not going up. But that's included in that 55 I was talking about. So these are total, this group here, the social services is totally discretionary, right? It comes to roughly 24,000. And we don't, oh, the library is in there, but they're already in there. So we're, I'm thinking, well, this is, yeah, they're in there in the budget, they're not in the morning that way. Library is a separate warned item. Right, okay. Well, where I was going with that is, if we put out a deadline and we haven't heard from them, that's a place to get some money. Yeah, they don't respond. They don't reply to the deadline. Yeah. That's pretty harsh. But they know, these agencies know that they have to do this over the year. So we can, I'll ask Adam. It's, you know, we could, I'll ask Judy what the deadline is on Wednesday. Yeah, didn't we, we had a different kind of form that they didn't have to petition every year, and if you got your appropriation last year. And that we just put in the same amount. Yeah. Right, yeah. But we do need to hear from them. I don't remember. I don't remember all the time. But we decided to, okay. Cause if we were gonna, if we were gonna go that direction and start to play hard ball with that, maybe a final reminder might say, you know, the slip word is let me know that we will not. Right, you missed the deadline. If you missed the deadline, if, in fact, there is a deadline, if what we've said. Yeah, I'm sure there is a deadline because, you know, everything has a deadline because it has to go to the printer by the start of the day. Right, so. Right. You know. So we'll get more information on that on Wednesday to update everybody on Monday. But if she could keep track of who comes in before deadline and who doesn't, you know what I'm saying? So that we actually have that information if we have to make some really hard decisions. Oh yeah, yeah. Not just that we finally heard from them, but it was late. Okay, that's that. Did we go all the way to the end? Finish. Pretty much. Pretty much. There's a lot of holes at the end. It's good to say, oh, that's a good number. Yeah. But even with all those blanks, look at the bottom line of the end. Well, if you look at the budgeted for FY19 and the proposed for FY20, with all the blanks. Right. We're under what we had budgeted for FY19, but we don't have all the blanks still there. That's what I'm saying, because that's not a big enough delta to fill all those blanks. What's the, what, do you want to figure out the difference there? Yeah, the difference of the percentage. Well, let's start with the difference. Seven, oh, one, two, three, four. The difference is 212,000. 212,000, right. Which is... And that's without filling all the blanks in. Right. Which is 15, well, 15% of this year's proposed, that doesn't tell us much. No. Anyway, it's a big number. Yeah. It's a big number, but it's not big enough to close all those holes comfortably at all. I don't think so. Okay. We'll get more information and report back. Does this look in Excel? Do you have this in Excel? No. It's in the folder. In Excel? I think so. Okay. What you have to do is even have to download it from the folder to this hop, and then you can open it. Yeah, yeah. Right, yeah. No, that's fine. Yep. So we can do some percentage. Yeah. Manage your lady. I might do that in my free task. Oh, wow. You know me and spreadsheets. I know. I know. All right. Whoa, baby. I know. It happens over here. Don't get any easier. Did you want to say anything about cemeteries? This seems a lot harder than last year. Yeah, it's going to be hard. It is. I don't remember. Well, in the library's art department, it's huge. Yeah. And there, yeah. Sorry, I cut you off for a minute. No, no. I was just thinking cemeteries. Really, there's not a lot. I mean, they make their own budget. Yeah. It goes on the morning. You know, there's a lot of changes. Oh, this is the expenditure report as of November 3rd. Right, right. Not their new budget. Yeah. Right. Let's do minutes. I don't really have anything much to update on from my perspective. We are going to go into a second session. Let's do the minutes. So I made another change in the minutes. Which is? Working on getting to this. So I'll just talk about it before we close up. So in the context of the question that was raised about the postmark, the point that I added is the point that I, to the minutes, is the point that I made in the conversation last week that typical rules of construction would say there's a lot. There's a lot. Do you read what you wrote? Sure. If you've got it. Yes, read it. So for that sentence, you wrote, under common rules of statutory construction, the fact that the postmark provision was not in part of number 13 means the voting body, i.e. the town meeting voters, did not intend to include it. Particularly when another provision clearly included the postmark provision. Yeah. So that's the common rule of construction, which I added to have Sandra's back because that's what people were saying that about. She applied what any lawyer would do. And I really wanted to be clear that she's not off the reservation in that interpretation. So I hadn't added that in, it occurred to me later. We didn't make that point in the minutes, but we did talk about it. We did talk about it. I added that in. And then there was something I added and that the board also noted the treasurers that were noticing from Port Forum, provided plenty of time for testers to pay taxes in person or mail them well before the rest of your hands, which we also said. Yeah. And again, I feel like however we end up handling it, it's important to have Sandra's back because she was not a crazy interpretation. No. And the fact that it didn't say it is my interpretation. We weren't clear in saying anything about the postmark. Right. So, does that make sense to me? Yeah. I mean, I understand from a layman's perspective. I read it from the view. Yeah. Well, you put it here, so you must have forgotten it there when in fact the law would go the opposite. You put it here and you didn't put it here, means you didn't intend to. Right. If it's not said, it's not said. Exclusio, inclusio, or inclusio, exclusio, something. There's a lot of phrase. Well, whenever it's not there, it's not there. It's not there. So those are the changes I made to the minutes later in the day. Yeah, and I didn't see that, but I did see the other ones, so. Yeah. I agree with those ones. I saw the other ones, and it's fine with that, and I'm fine with this too, actually. Applaud it. Rose. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for making it clear. Oh, no, that was really important. It is important, very important. Rose. Under Tom Blatchley about the friends of, in the paragraph about town hall uses, he is from friends of the. Plainfield Opera House. Plainfield Town Opera House. Even my daughter. She's actually from Plainfield. Plainfield Opera House. Great, okay. Let's pick it up. I don't usually eat. Thank you, Rose. Plainfield Town Hall. Opera House. Could you have a member of the public? I knew it had the word opera in it. My throat is so dry. And that helps? Yeah, I knew it had the word opera in it. Anything else, Rose? I don't think so. All right. But thank you, class. Would somebody like to make a motion to approve the minutes of November 26th with the changes as noted? So moved. I'll second it. Aye. I'll move some favor. We'll say aye. Aye. Aye. Okay, and now I would entertain a motion to go into the second session to discuss personnel matters. At 8.50. Look at that. We're running ahead of schedule. We're doing really well. I wonder where that is. I wonder why we're running. Well, because we have no company tonight. Right. Yeah. Nice. Class, so moved. Is there a second? Second. I'll move some favor. We'll say aye. Aye. Aye.