 Women that gain weight when they are getting older. The main reason is because they are losing their Metabolic flexibility they become less flexible You guys explain what your thoughts are on how our metabolism really works Sure. First of all, thank you for hosting us. It's a pleasure and When we are talking about metabolism I think that one of the main problem around it is that people don't understand that Metabolism is basically our body engine meaning if our body engine is not working properly We are not going to be able to enjoy quality of life Weight loss is one of the things that also we're not going to be able to achieve that if our body is not functioning well So basically metabolic health. Yes, one of the main pillar is Metabolic flexibility So a healthy body, which is a flexible body will be able to shift to use fat when he's in the right moment But also we'll be able to use carbs depend on on the context for example after eating A high carb meal for example So on metabolism should know how to use both type of fuel fat and carbs depend on the context So if we are know how to do that We have an efficient metabolism, which is a flexible metabolism Which is a healthy metabolism and then basically we are able to achieve quality of life We're gonna have high level of energy. We're not gonna have a drop of energy after lunch For example, we're gonna be able to lose weight, but more important will be able to maintain the weight Which is one of the main problem today, right? Nine out of ten people that lose weight are not really able to maintain it. Yeah, that's true almost everybody either gains all that weight back or even Gains more weight than where then where they started now a lot of people particularly women blame getting old That your metabolism changes particularly at menopause Does metabolism change or do you think something else is going on? So first I think when we are referring to metabolism So like we had just mentioned there's the type of fuel that our body is using But metabolism is also the amount of energy that our bodies actually produce So when we've when these women complain about their their metabolism is being changed both of these two Core physiological process really change and it's because of age But it's also because of the nutrition and lifestyle that has highly affect both of them One of the main problems when we are getting older, especially women is that we are losing our muscle mass in our muscle mass We have a lot of mitochondria Those mitochondria are the ones that responsible to how metabolically flexible we are going to be So if we are going to lose muscles We're gonna have fewer and maybe even and less functioning mitochondria and then our body will less be Flexible to use fat and also to shift into carbs. So basically when we think about Women that gain weight when they are getting older and the main reason is because they are losing their Metabolic flexibility they become less flexible Well, I tell you know in in my current book unlocking the keto code. I make a very strong case That metabolic flexibility is really what what drives long-term health and That one of the shocking things and I'm sure you guys know but even 50 percent of normal weight individuals do not have Metabolic flexibility and I'm just going to repeat that what you just said Metabolic flexibility is the ability of our mitochondria to shift from burning sugar as a fuel to burning free fatty acids as a fuel and We should be able to do that really on a dime, right? I mean you should be able to do that But 50 percent of normal people don't do that 88 percent of overweight individuals can't do that and 99.5 percent of obese individuals Can't do that have no metabolic flexibility. You know the funny thing is that? our metabolic flexibility metabolic health and Is it basically determine our by our lifestyle by our nutrition? our movement our sleep and a stress management all those four pillars Gonna impact and we determine how metabolically flexible we are going to be But at the end as you just said 88% of the population in the US are metabolically not flexible and Maravi and I keep asking ourselves how is it because all of those four pillars nutrition sleep mind and movement are under our control So one of the main things that I'm holding us back is basically a behavioral change, right? Because if all of us gonna move more gonna eat a healthy nutrition Small Those numbers are gonna be gonna be much less, but still it's not the case so What we are trying to bring to the world is that ability that if you are able to measure Your metabolic health and see the impact of your lifestyle on your metabolic health Being able to measure that impact. This will help you to change your behavior So this is basically what meravi and I are doing in the last eight years Wow, it's been eight. It's been eight years So what what made you want to develop a system to measure metabolic Flexibility, let's start there. So eight years ago you said We're gonna be famous Maravi said that we must we had to find something that we can do together. So we No, it was a joke We were eight years ago. No, maybe even more Our passion to metabolic flexibility started in 2008 We both of us we were in our last year of phd And we started to compete to our first ironman competition No, you're familiar with that Sure So, you know that most of the competitors Are crash after the after 20 kilometers of Running, I mean, they're doing amazing the swimming the cycling But then after 20 kilometers their bodies just don't have energy anymore and they crash And we thought to ourselves. Wow if we want to To do that, we need our body to use the right field at the right moment So we will have enough energy to finish the marathon So in 2008 you probably know metabolic flexibility. It was not a common term I mean at least not outside the lab or in the scientific community So we couldn't find really Proven strategies in order to improve our metabolic flexibility So we started to do many experiments. We used to eat our biggest meal in the morning And we went to six hour cycling on fasting condition in order to improve our own mitochondria functionality And in the competition at the end we we did amazing with it very well You know, we compete with very muscular men and they crashed and we'll just kept going and we finished with a smile But still we finished and there was something missing for us and this ability to measure What we did what has the highest impact? Uh, so we would keep put our effort on and what has less impact because we did many things Um, and after the first iRoman competition we we said, okay, let's build let's take a technology It is already being used in the hospitals Since the 60s and made it available to us So we will be able to measure How metabolically flexible are we? and What is the impact of all the things that we are keep trying on ourselves? On us So this is how everything began So how did you take the rather large cumbersome apparatus that we use in In an exercise physiology lab or in the hospital? and Turn it into something that looks like a vape machine. No no offense How how did you how did you miniaturize this number one? There were two main challenges one is really to miniature the technology, but the second and I think it's What's we are more proud at is To make it valid to take a measurement that takes 45 minutes in a lab that you have to lie down Cover with something like an astronaut And then you need a physician to analyze the data So we were able now we are able to measure metabolism in only one breath And it's based on a quite of simple technique, which is a holding technique You inhale a specific amount of air into your lungs you hold for 10 seconds, and then you exhale Lumen measure the carbon dioxide at a very specific point when you exhale, which is relative to your personal lung capacity the holding Phase Enable actually equilibrium Between the carbon dioxide in the blood to the carbon to the air in the lungs So when you exhale and we are actually measure in carbon dioxide that indicates On the metabolism that being used in your cells Do I need to maybe to simply to try to simplify it Our body right each one of our cells all the time produce energy and release carbon dioxide to the blood This carbon dioxide can tell us the type of fuel that being used Using the lumen maneuver this carbon dioxide diffuse to the lung and we measure it in xl air So this is how we can tell a very enough The set to tell you about your metabolism Instead of going to one of the clinics or hospitals and lie down for 45 minutes Basically when the body is using carbs, it could use more co2 whether when it's using fat So if we could measure what is happening in our blood, we are able to know what type of fuel your body is using So even when you're mainly burning carbohydrates sugar glucose You produce more carbon carbon dioxide Relatively compared to when you're burning Free fatty acids as a as a fuel. Yes, even though even though the the calories may be exactly the same Am I okay? Yes, exactly And so and again, this is what we do in an exercise lab But you're doing it not in an exercise lab. You've worked out an algorithm That says with just one breath You can duplicate what would Take a half an hour in an exercise lab, right? Yes, we just uh, I think it was a year ago We just published the validation study in jmail and since then we reached all kind of Research institutes reach out to lumen because we actually enable New space to explore metabolism that on team today was not available one of the things that meravi and I passion about is To develop the understanding of our metabolism. So every collaboration That we can create in order the world better understand metabolism and metabolic health. This is a very um It's nice to us. It's nice to know that we keep the research And eventually those insight from the academy those insight We can use them and bring them to lumen users. So it's like it's a win-win Okay, so let's go back to maybe a dumb question, but obvious question Why Why would I? Want to burn Fat as a fuel sometimes Why shouldn't I just burn sugar as a fuel? I got sugar everywhere. What the heck? I might as well just you know have have a have a donut every two hours, and I'll be fine Why why wouldn't I do that? So if you all the time first of all if you all the time gonna eat donuts Yeah So all the time they're going to be an increase in your blood glucose will cause to spike in insulin Over time do spikes in insulin your body will develop an insulin resistance Insulin resistance will cause you to become diabetic on diabetic Also, when you're all the time going to eat carbs, so your body is not going to use these fat stores So you also you need to contrary are not practicing using fat So you're also going to gain weight. So all this is like a circle At the moment that you are starting all the time consuming carbs You are gaining weight your mitochondrial functionality become less working less properly and you are develop Metabolic syndrome diabetic and high risk to stroke So you don't want to do that Please don't eat donuts every day I Completely agree with your number one number two there. There are a lot of there are a lot of people Who go but wait a minute, you know fat has nine grams nine calories in in in grant nine grams per calorie and Carbs sugar only has four And so boy if I eat fat, I'm going to get fatter and fatter and fatter. So I I ought to Sugar so I don't get fat, but uh, but that's not right, right? I think you know What are calories right calories? This is a measurement that we invent We took the food we put it in an isolated box. We burned it and we measured the heat This is not what's happening in our body At the moment we eat food there things are happening hormones creation Things are our body is not an isolated box So when we are using calories, it's not It's it's not right. It's contextless. It's contextless. Thank you This is not how we should measure Food that we eat the same as the weight on the scale Should not be used in order to assess how metabolically healthy we are 20% of people of the thin people are metabolically not healthy and they are thin So it's not a directorial correlation between our weight and and to our health so All right, so all right, so I want to I want to have metabolic flexibility And you if I if I use your your lumen device You don't you can develop metabolic flexibility even without lumen lumen lumen can help you but so how is our listener Gonna know Just just sitting here today Whether or not they're metabolically flexible because you and I we all agree We want metabolic flexibility um, I can't look at my aura ring and know I'm metabolically flexible I can't look at my whoop band and know I'm metabolically flexible um I can't step on the scale and know I'm metabolically flexible So help me out. I help our listeners out. How do we how do we know? Okay, so Without lumen. It's very hard for you to know but you can become you can you know, you can because metabolic health is an output of our lifestyle so if You're gonna eat healthy food and you're gonna manage your carbs properly And you're not gonna eat late at night and you're gonna move and you're gonna manage your stress And you're gonna sleep well if you're going to do all those you're gonna be metabolically healthy, but You're not gonna be able to measure it But and this personalize the things that you do and because no because it is a balance You can sometimes do less or more and it really depends on the things that you are willing to do And sometimes you can maybe eat a little bit more, but then to do more more exercise or a little bit So, um, you can track after if you don't have lumen Yes, so you can track after your energy level and you can see how your craving is and you can measure also You know your happiness level because When we are healthy, we have more energy. We're more productive. We don't have this those drop of energy We can keep our rate our weight off So basically all the things that we want are happening. So we are also happier so You can track after all of those on a subjective way But if you're more like meravi and myself when we want to measure and we want to see And it's important to us to see progress from day after day week after week So for that, there is no way really to measure it beside Measure your metabolism day after day and every week lumen is providing you with that score How metabolically healthy you are And you also as meravi said You're able to see how the things that you did impact on your metabolic health Because eventually if we will do everything right, we all gonna be healthy, but life happens, right? Sometimes you go to a restaurant. Sometimes you go with her kids to eat pizza We we not all the time, you know Eating healthy and walk out and sleeping and all the time in uh, I don't know in thailand resting on the beach Sometimes we are in stress, right? So it is a balance between all those pillars And with lumen you are able to understand its balance and if for example You see that you are eating more carbs So you can compensate it with prolong your fast or finish eating early or let's Increase the amount of steps. So it's a balance between everything. This is why lumen eats It's not a diet. Sometimes people think, okay, it's a low carb diet. No, it's not a low carb diet It's not about low carb. It's about low carb if you want to have to do low carb if for example meravi She's very she finds it very hard to do low carb, right meravi So she is eating more carb, but she finished eating early and she prolonged fast and she do more steps I I have no problem do low low carb I'm doing low carb all the time, but I'm eating, you know I like to eat dinner late at night, but they're just making sure that it's without carbs So our life is a balance between all those movements nutrition stress So that well that brings up a great point. So here we have kind of a Carboholic over here and then Yeah, that's okay And and you're and you're kind of anti-carb Uh, you finish eating early and you when do you Eat breakfast when do you break your fast? So usually I finish I I finish dinner about seven And then I eat breakfast at about 10 Around 10, okay And oh right and so On the opposite you're finishing dinner at What time nine Nine o'clock, okay, and then what time do you eat in the morning? 10 10, okay, so so you you don't have as big a fasting window Okay So when oh, so this is great. So and you've got you've made lumen and so What is your lumen device at? Well, let's let's at 10 o'clock in the morning For both of you Are you both burning fat at that time or yeah? Um, I not always Not always not always not always um Usually also i'm taking my measurements after i'm doing a workout on fasting and then i'm able to shift to fat So not all mornings. I'm wake up on fat burn, but it's It's totally me It's totally okay because not every day we need to wake up on fat burn Right our metabolic health is not something that today I have it and tomorrow I don't We with lumen we are taking your measurements like a snapshot During the week and we are calculated it and take into account also the context So it's not that if today I wake up and I'm burning mainly carbs. So today I'm metabolically not healthy No, I mean makes sense. Yesterday. I ate I ate more than I needed And and it's it's totally okay So it's like we want to see a trend and to Or toward using more fat and to see you more often Waking up on fat burn, but it's not that if one day or I don't know every Time in a while you're gonna wake up on carb burn. So you're not metabolically healthy So it's it's an it's something that it's much more holistic I want to say something about the fasting You know We find something I just just because I know it will be Interesting for you We saw in our data we have more than six million metabolic measurement Yeah, and we have the log of the fasting time for our users And we see that women Only women that are metabolically not flexible So during the fast They starting to shift a bit towards fat But then after 14 hours of fasting they're starting to shift back Into carbs meaning their body is like is insert into stress mode When they'll stop using fat and then they turn into carbs But women that are mid-metabolically flexible So they after 16 hours Starting to insert into stress mode And women that are metabolically flexible like me I never insert almost into stress mode and I'm able to shift to fat burn after 12 hours 14 hours of 16 hours So it's very personal all this fasting Impact now that brings up a question. Everybody is aware of the keto diet And you know, you want to burn ketones as fuel and my last book Kind of said no, no, no. It's not what you think Ketones are not a great fuel. Believe it or not but So your device Is not measuring ketone production, right? No, no right and A lot there are ketone measuring devices out there uh and Whether or not that's a good thing or bad thing is is a subject for another debate But I think your point is that there's a lot of people that are obsessed with being in ketosis that it's It's somehow, you know, the perfect fuel and your brain loves ketones And in fact the human evidence on that is is not true Um, your brain certainly can use ketones as a fuel and that's really one of the reasons ketones exist Because they're small water soluble fat molecules that can get past the blood brain barrier And free fatty acids literally can't get through But the idea that we should always be in ketosis Um You're not always in ketosis. No No, and I I don't think you would want to be would you? No, I'm not in ketosis at all the fact that I'm using fat in the morning is does not mean that I'm in ketosis our Right, I mean we can right. No, that's right carbs fat and then only in name um, if I will keep avoiding carbs And eat high fat diet only then I will start to shift into a ketosis Also, we see one of the problem in ketosis the way I see it is that um When you are going back To enjoy a normal diet meaning you want to enjoy carbs So then you are gaining all the weight back because your bodies lose the flexibility To use carbs. So when we are avoiding carbs for too long Basically, our body stopped produce in the two enzymes black again synthase and pdh Those enzymes are responsible to take glucose and produce energy from it or to take the extra glucose and to store this as glycogen So when we are avoiding carbs for too long, we are basically our body stopped producing those enzymes We can go back and produce them. But by the time that we will do that we already going to gain all the weight back So this is one also of the problems with keto um We see many of our users that come with Very strong agenda of keto, but gradually when they are starting to use lumen and we they become less Religious less religious And they starting to enjoy carbs because Carbs are not even we are getting many good things from carbs We have getting a lot of fibers from carbs just depending the type of carbs So not that one that's that you want to eat every day. So Let me go back to the point That you've noticed with your studies And that is there's a number of women. Let me make sure i'm saying this correctly that Even after a 12 hour fast, which is actually not a long time um, that's stopping eating dinner at eight o'clock and having breakfast at eight o'clock in the morning And that's pretty normal Even some people at that point Will stop burning fat and start burning carbs even though they're they're not eating and And that's stress mode Does that explain why a lot of There's a lot of talk In social media that women Don't do well with a ketogenic diet compared to men Is in that's a generalized term, but I think your observation is important Because so many people And i'm one of them think that we should Really aim for a 16 hour maybe even an 18 hour window Of fasting at least five days a week in my opinion But what I hear you're saying is there's a lot of women That not only Can't do that but probably shouldn't do that. Is that is that summarizing well? I think that fasting is An amazing skill. We just need to manage it properly So if someone is used to fast eight hours and is used to live on carbs I think that gradually she yeah because I think that the problem is mainly around women She gradually need to prolong her fast. So those women that are metabolically not flexible I would not start with 16 hours or 14 hours because they are just their body still not there They gradually need to push their body Into the ability that they can practice the mitochondria is practicing and know how to use fat for energy So I'm with you about the importance of fasting I just need to think that it's something that the we should manage And we can do it should do it gradually the same is someone that is doing high carb I will not ask him from therapy conserving. Let's go to sleep conserving. He will he will lose it And you know in that in my book unlocking the keto code. That's exactly what I want people to do I want them to You know if you have breakfast at eight o'clock in the morning You're not gonna be one of those people who can suddenly have breakfast at noon and do well But if I ask you for a week to move your breakfast to nine o'clock in the morning instead of eight And do that for a week and then or even two weeks And then the following week go to nine 30 or 10 o'clock and work our way up gradually because I I see the same thing in my practice that People who are not metabolically flexible You know fall flat on their face Because They can't they can't do that. It'd be like asking me to run an iron man. Um, Sorry, I have to get some practice in Could I do it sure what do I want to do it? No Because I actually think it's really bad for you, but that's a whole another discussion But it's good for your soul There you go If you've read any of my books, you know, my my wife was was an excellent marathoner and At the age of 50 when I showed her the data Of the damage she was doing to her body. She she hung up her Her shoes, so but that's another subject But good for you for doing an iron man. Um, all right, so let me get back to lumen. Um, so All right, how does does an individual Use a lumen To help them learn How to be metabolically flexible because I assume That's really what you want this device to be used for. Yes. Yes All right, so take so walk us through it. How does it work? Okay, so I will Say to you what are we currently working on not what is the current experience because the current experience is much more focus on weight loss and less on metabolic flexibility um The new version of lumen is that the moment that you download the app Yes, and you have a lumen we first of all doing a metabolic assessment Meaning we are asking you to breathe in the morning and before going to bed in order to better understand How well your mitochondria is functioning So someone that is metabolically flexible will wake up when his body is more on fat burn And he will go to bed when he is not overloaded with carbs. So after this metabolic assessment you get um a score of where you are from someone that is Pretty abetic to someone that is super healthy High energy level can enjoy life not having this drop of energy. So you understand where you are Also, we're creating for you um a baseline of your lifestyle because gradually lumen wants to improve your lifestyle What is that lifestyle nutrition movement sleep and stress management? So we have those four pillars You understand when you are now You understand what has what is the impact of all of those things on your metabolic health And then we are walking through We are walking you through a journey of weeks. For example, we are giving you each week What is the focus of that week? For example, I know that's meravi. She is overeating carbs So the first week will be meravi. Let's reduce the amount of carbs in that week And at the end of the week, let's see what has the impact. What was the impact of what you did on your metabolic health? So by having this bio feedback So meravi is now see what is the impact and she's much more encouraged to keep changing her behavior um Then after those weeks in which we are helping you to improve a healthy lifestyle As meravi said before eventually it's a balance Right not all my life. I'm going to live in a plan. Okay this week Let's focus on low carb and next week. Let's focus on eating finish early This is no not how I live my life today I live my life today as this is a balance of those four of those pillars Every day I wake up in the morning and I breathe into lumen and lumen this This metabolic measurement in the morning is sensitive to lifestyle. This is meravi model So by tracking your metabolism every day and by tracking your data your lifestyle data We all the time can make sure that you're on the right track. And if not, we can say meravi pay attention Yesterday you ate three days in the last three days. You're eating too much You are starting to decrease your metabolic health. Let's improve it by increase the amount of steps So we are constantly Measuring your metabolic health and with the flexibility and we are constantly Measure the impact of your lifestyle on that and by that we all the time can navigate you Towards what the things that you should do better What the things that you should keep doing and what the things that maybe for now Let's avoid so Let's say I do my metabolic assessment and I'm I'm burning carbs in the morning and I'm burning carbs at night And maybe I go I don't believe it and I do it again And I'm burning carbs in the morning and I'm burning carbs at night Should I just throw up my hands and say, uh, I'm I'm screwed. I just I'm I can't get out of this mess And I'm not going to even trot. Uh, do do some people do that? Um No Okay, people are motivated to Um to enjoy quality of life. I mean they understand that This the value of become healthier is under their control is not like It's not there is no magic. I mean it's our metabolism. It's what's happening within us And what we are doing is has the impact on it. So it's under our control. So I think that they are even more motivated Now you mentioned sleep as one of the four pillars and I absolutely agree with you Uh, when I was a very busy heart surgeon uh, and Heart surgeons don't get a lot of sleep at night because we're operating in the middle of the night and blah, blah, blah Uh, I gained a lot of weight because I was very hungry for carbohydrates Um Do you guys see on lumen that when people aren't getting enough sleep? They're much more likely to be burning carbohydrates? Yeah Yes, we had a user that Mark we had the user that it's like From his point of view. He did everything right He did low carb. He stopped eating early. He did a lot of work out But still he wasn't able to gradually shift into waking up on fed burn and Once we looked on his data and we saw that he just is not having enough sleep. He slept four and a half hours um Consist consistently And we we gave them that insight and once he understand that and he's he improved his sleep habits You immediately saw that shift into fact. It was it was amazing to see it. Yeah We are even now have a a research collaboration to to see how night shift affect morning metabolism So it's I think it's cool. We'll be very very insightful All right, another complaint mothers with young children Don't get a lot of sleep And What what what do you say to a mother who doesn't get a lot of sleep that? Eventually you will or do you have some tricks to help to help out offset that lack of sleep So as I said it's a balance, right because When you have children, yes, you might not be able to sleep properly The same as sometimes, you know, when you have children For example, she had a month when she couldn't do uh, she couldn't find the time to do workout. Yes It was six months So it is a balance So we have here and the company a mom she did all also she's not having enough sleep So she's trying to do five minutes of meditation Just to reduce a bit the stress and to help a bit to recovery But you know, this is life and we are working with what we have So there is no really logic to say to a mom look just You need to sleep more. She's not able to It will pass She can do in the meantime to pay attention more to nutrition and maybe five minutes of Of meditation Well, I've got a question for you as you may know that I want everyone to go get a dog For for for multiple reasons including stress reduction and also they make you go walk twice a day Whether you want to or not Have you used lumen to look at the effect of having a dog on fat burning and and Well, I you need to do a study right right away. Okay. I will edit For the analysis. This is genius. I didn't I didn't know that about you I read about you and your books um, and about also about your your wife and I didn't know about the story of the dog Yeah, I actually well, we have four dogs and Uh, but I write patients a prescription on a you know on a prescription pad to get a dog and it's amazing A number of them actually bring the prescription back framed And it's the best prescription a doctor has ever given me And then they bring their little dog in or a big dog in and yeah, I have a dog But there you go. All right, so and you don't so we're going to have a test here maybe Maybe that's why you need more carbohydrate So can you so you have a lot of data and can you share some Research or success stories for instance the person who wasn't sleeping enough I mean, what are you learning about what this device can do? You want maybe you want to share about the echelon study? Well, these are not uh, um, this is a really interesting, um, clinical study that we've done on pre-diabetic patients uh, we took um um It was a a cult of 30 people in around 50 from they the endocrinological department here And the top hospitals in israel recruited them and they used lumen for three for three months And we measured their health at the beginning health biomarkers such as hdl pre-diabetic fasting hba 1c um weights Circumference body fat everything and then after three months you can see how really it was very exciting to see how they They improved their health. They reduced their hba 1c. They lost weight triglycerin everything. So um only by using lumen now again, like michali said, it's not that lumen is a medication, but it definitely the The biofeedback and the sense of control and the fact that you can see what you've done and how it's affected You it keeps you um, encourage you to continue um, and another really interesting thing that we've noticed is the connection between phases in the monthly cycle to metabolism It was about I think thousands of women who logged their monthly cycle And you can see how their metabolism is shifted and how When you compare it to the amount of carb that they consume you can see that in the very specific Phases of the monthly cycle we tend to consume more carbohydrate it was um Very exciting to see we are like a huge research institutes lumen has more than six million metabolic measurements and their contexts lumen is built on on synergy between users And us So by them providing us data We are able to analyze and to give them back more insight And basically this is how everything began because merafe in myself We built the first prototype only to ourself We didn't plan to have lumen, right? and We asked from family and friends to start breeding for our prototype because we needed Evalidation we needed that to make sure that our method is is correct And then once we started with family and friends suddenly Those friends said wow. Um, it's really interesting. Can I can I use it? And then we needed more data. So we recruit like beta testers Can you please breed so we can validate the measurement? And they also said oh wow, but this is very cool Can we get it? Can we also use it? And gradually This is also how lumen is built today We are really we are even asking in the community. We have an amazing community at lumen We are asking asking them to love different things So we can get data to better understand metabolism and to give it back to our users and to the world We'll be able to better understand metabolic health So it's it's very exciting for merafe in myself because for us we are still do research Yeah All right now. I gotta ask since you brought up the the cycle Um, so when in in in the cycle is it the ovulation cycle when women Want more carbohydrates or do you remember? Well, which makes evolutionary sense Because I see that in my patients particularly in in very thin women Who uh can't get pregnant or don't even ovulate because you don't carry enough fat stores To actually think you're you know, you if you starved and you were pregnant. That's not good But yeah, so, you know, you want to actually add fat at the time of ovulation You know just in case So that's very interesting. So what so what you're saying? Maybe the whole take home Of this whole hour is It's okay Once a month in your ovulation cycle, you're going to crave carbs and don't fight it. Is that is that a good message? Yes And even you guys would that's okay. So don't don't don't go against your biologic design All right, you heard it here first No, I mean, I think that's I think that's exciting research because so many times You know, we shame people's behavior and oh, you know shame on you for wanting those carbohydrates shame You have to be low carb No, I think really I really do think we have to listen to our body. It's think our hormonal We do need to also to pay attention, you know, when you eat carbonated too much, but That's Those all those strict guidelines. It's very difficult to follow. It's not it's very difficult to stick with And we should just you know Balance life So let me ask you one thing before we go. Have you have your users Are they astute enough to say When I have a cup of coffee in the morning I burn sugar instead of fat or I You know, I I have tea in the morning and I burn fat instead of sugar or is it that sophisticated? Because some people have noticed that coffee makes their blood sugar go up a little bit And that if you put cinnamon in your coffee It keeps it down. But do people track that with lumen? So people track after After workouts, so they take a measurement before and after To see whether they body shift and by that they even optimizing the type of workout They take a measurement also before the workout to make sure that they have enough energy So if for example, I am now going to do a heat workout high intensity They want to make sure that they have carbs and if not So they are taking a banana or something like that interesting, okay People tracking after the fasting. So they start with the fast And they take a measurement during the fast to see when when they should stop fasting in order to see the looking for for that shift People see we have just now posting the community someone posted that Guys, this is super important the quality of your food I thought that it's only about counting macros and counting counting carbs But she said that at the moment that she started to pay attention to the quality of their food of her food She immediately started to shift into fat. So this is something that is more about the habits That she track and less about snapshots of prepost workout or during the fast So those are the things also sleep people are also tracking about about sleep with lumen So they want to make sure that they are okay Make sure to check out the next one here So sugar in and of itself Absolutely wax your immune system's ability to protect you from bacteria and viruses