 Hi, welcome to another episode of recover louder. I'm your host Mike Paddleford, and I recover loud This show first started with the hopes that we could help end the stigma of substance use disorder and try to help to save some lives Let's go. I'm on a journey to discover the truth living life and recovery is lovely You got the power in you surround yourself a positive energy judges hitting people with provocative penalties Need to make a change Advocate to change the laws to the people that it's not insane when you stand behind the cause I'm here to speak about the pain Recovered loud to normalize the disease that's been killing all my friends and my family The time is now to let it all go recover loud the benefit is healthy people family and friends They never have to overdose ever again never have to plead out to a lesser defense I'm proud to say that I recover loud I never thought I could but I'm so proud that I discovered how to live my life again Controlling my own destiny. I needed recovery. I still need it desperately Addiction never define my head recover loud here to tell my own story I recover proud save a life of like 40. I recover loud. Yeah, I recover loud I recover loud. Yeah, I recover loud I recover loud here to tell my own story I recover proud save a life of like 40 I recover loud. Yeah, I recover loud I recover loud. Yeah, I recover loud I recover I recover loud I recover I recover loud I recover I recover loud I recover I recover loud And welcome to another episode of recover loud. I'm your host Mike Paddleford and I recover loud Today's guest is Mackenzie Kelly from Bangor. Mackenzie, welcome. Thanks for sharing your story with us today. Where did you grow up? Yeah, I actually grew up in Bangor, Maine, and I don't know. I come from a really good family, but my parents weren't really around, so it was mostly just me trying to fit in, I guess, and I didn't really know how or what that looked like, so that's actually how I got into drugs. What age would you say you first used a substance, whether it was alcohol or marijuana? Yeah, I was 12 when I first started smoking pot. Yeah. Was that a regular thing for you, or was that just a it happened and then? No, I used once, and then when I was 15, I started smoking regularly. And how easy was it for you to do that? It was just normal, all of my friends smoked pot. Everybody I hung out with was, I was a freshman, they were all seniors, and then we partied on the weekends or whatever, and I had people who were older than 21 that were buying us alcohol and stuff. And how long did it take before that progressed into something that was a little more serious? By the time I was 17, I was addicted to OxyContin. All my friends were using opiates, and I'd see them nodding out on the couch and be like, what is wrong with you? That just looks freaking terrible. And I'd gotten in some trouble at high school because I was skipping school and smoking weed. So my parents actually sent me to a different high school, and like I said, I didn't know how to fit in. And I was in vocational school, so I remember having this crazy crush on this guy, and he did pills. And that was, I guess, kind of my way in. I felt like the only way he would like me was if I did kind of like what he did. What else did you get from doing that? I mean, did that relationship last? To be honest with you, I had started stealing money from my father's business. And so my parents knew that something was going on, but they didn't exactly know what it was. And I thought I was going on vacation, but during that time it was like around the year 2000, and these child programs were kind of coming into swing, I guess. And my parents sent me to a lockdown facility in Jamaica. I thought I was going on vacation. So that put the kibosh to our relationship pretty quick. So how old were you there? I was 17. And how long did that program last? I was there 11 months. I didn't actually graduate the program. I signed out three months after my 18th birthday, but once you turn 18, you can sign out. But I had kind of grown this relationship with my parents, and I had craved this acceptance from them for a really long time, like this validation that I just never got. And I was really hoping their version of my success in the program would kind of change that relationship. So I stayed. And when I got out, I was like, what I call is programized, right? We were almost brainwashed into feeling or thinking certain things. So when I got out, I just, it was fear that kind of drove me that kept me straight for a lack of a better way to put it. Right. And how long did you stay? Clean. Yeah. Well, off of opiates, it was about five years, but almost, I mean, within six months. No, I'm just kidding. Within a couple of weeks, I was smoking pot again. Yeah. So a lot of people talk about marijuana being a gateway. Do you see it as such for your recovery? I mean, I don't smoke pot anymore. Do I see it as a gateway? Not necessarily. For me, I think when I was a kid, it was cigarettes, to be honest. Yeah. I mean, once we find that we can get a benefit from something, then that desire or willingness to try something is there. So what happened to get you start using again after all that? Um, to be honest, my best friend was dating a cop. And I had, you know, we'd had previous discussions about how much Oxycontin was worth. And this, this old man had died and this woman asked my friend's boyfriend to get rid of the pills. And he was like, well, do you want to receipt for that? And she said, no. So he took all the pills, pretended to flush them down the toilet. And then he knew nobody else but me. And I'd been clean for so long that I didn't know what the hell to do with them. You know what I mean? But I had this one guy that would, you know, probably buy him. So that's kind of how it started. And I sold them or sold him like the 80s and 40s, but I kept the 20s for myself and, you know, it's kind of all downhill from there. Yeah. And, and honestly, that's how my addiction started too. I was, I was getting a prescription myself for, for herniated discs, but I didn't take any of them. I sold everything I got for like the first four years. And that money was my first addiction, you know, the power people wanting what I had, you know, and, you know, I kind of got off on the idea that I could keep some people away and allow other people in, you know, and just force them to, to want to be my friend, you know. And then eventually a doctor cut me off and I had to start sharing every time I sold one, I did one. And so I could pass a urine test and it didn't take long on 40 milligram oxy cotton to get addicted. So how long didn't, were you able to keep up that lifestyle? I mean, that started it all over again. And I started buying pills for personal use. And then before you know it, I was, I had, you know, connections, right? So I was buying them for really cheap and selling them. So that's how I supported my habit for about, probably about four or five years. Yeah. And, you know, it's this, for me, it was a really quick progression, I guess, because it was basically unlimited access for really cheap. And like you said, it didn't really feel like I had any power or control when I was a child. So I really think I kind of craved that. And just feeling like I had some importance, even though it wasn't a negative aspect. Right. Right. And I mean, we don't know that it's negative. It's something we've always wanted, you know, growing up that acceptance. And you, you mentioned when you went into that, that program, you were hoping the acceptance from your parents. So it's all, you know, we grow up wanting that. And when we don't have it, we find a way to get it. So finding healthy ways to find that and feel that, you know, is really what keeps us, you know, in on the path to recovery later on, because that doesn't go away. We just have to find another way to fill that. So how about legal trouble? How did that? Yeah, that I've been a lot. Yeah. So I say four or five years of that whole situation with the oxys. I actually got busted with a very large amount of them when I was 27. And I never spent a day in jail. I'd never been in trouble for anything. So they actually gave me an eight year sentence to deserve. And so I went away for two years. And I didn't change one thing. You know, at first, prison basically just gave me some more connections for when I got out. And at the time, there really was no what they call now reentry. You know, I came from a good family. So oh, you have somewhere to go. They have money, you know, whatever. I didn't get any services, not one when I got let out. And what year was that? That was in 2012. Yeah. Yeah, see, I was in prison back in 1996. I got out. And same thing, there was nothing on her. They gave a $50 check, I think it was, and a bus ticket if I needed it. And, you know, sent me on my way. I had to report for probation. But, you know, even that wasn't offering me something. It was just, you know, reporting to the man, you know, somebody telling me what I couldn't do. And, you know, when I got out of prison, I actually tried hard to stay on the right path. And then I, once I got those prescriptions for oxys, it was, you know, all those things come back to me, you know, an easy way to make money. I knew people were going to buy them. And, you know, it just made it, it was accessible, you know, and easy. The prescriptions I was getting, you know, you mentioned different sizes and keeping the lower dose, I did the same thing. You know, I was getting oxy 40s, oxy 20s, oxy 15s, each month, you know, so I could do some cell arrest. And, you know, eventually I sold less and less, did more and more, and then I started buying them. And I just keep buying more. And then I shared with my wife and then we bought twice as much. And that whole life, you know, 20 years that lasted before, you know, finally came crashing in. And so at some point you decided that you were done with all of that. And, you know, you've been, you know, staying away from it for how long now? I've been clean for five years, but to be honest with you, that first prison bid didn't do it for me. No, no. I went on the run from probation for five years and it went from oxys to heroin. And I was just hot mess for years because it became opiates and then crack. And it was just, I didn't leave the house. And like I said, I was on the run, I'd go and meet my guy and I was in the trunk, you know what I mean? Like just some real shady stuff that I did just to keep up my drug habit and to make money, right? So it just so happened that, you know, I had these like feelings of like real hopelessness and I really wanted to die, to be honest with you. It just got to that point where I did not care about my life. I didn't want to be around and have the guts to actually kill myself. So it was like killing myself slowly, right? So I got picked up and I got a seven-year sentence for drugs. And the first year, I was just really angry, just angry at the world, myself, my family, the girl who called the cops on me. I thought of all the ways that I was going to burn her house down. Because it's her fault. Right, of course. It wasn't my fault. It wasn't my fault at all. And then after that first year, I was like, all right, you know, I gotta let this go, you know? And about three years into my bed, I started taking what's called inside-out classes, which are people who are inside incarcerated that actually go to school with outside students. And at the time, we were actually working with a program through MIT. And so there were MIT and Harvard students on the outside and women and men who were incarcerated, so in Wyndham and in Charleston. And we had this professor, Lee Perlman. He was amazing. I still work with him. Anyways, we had this day, right, where we had stayed overly at the end of class. And this guy was talking from Charleston, was talking about a murder he had committed. And it was like a restorative justice circle kind of. And there was another woman in the class whom her mother had actually been brutally raped by somebody who had been let out on parole. And she actually had a huge part in getting parole kind of rescinded in the state of Pennsylvania. And at that moment in time, she said the worst possible choice she could have made, you know, because at the time she was like, you know, she was very bitter. She wanted revenge, et cetera, et cetera. So Lee says, okay, and he says the woman's name and he says a man's name. And he says, you know, pretend like she is the son of your victim. What would you say to her? And he just starts crying and he was like, I'm sorry. I'm just so sorry. And of course, I'm on the zoom screen and I start crying. And Lee, after, you know, the whole exchange, he says to me, he's like, you know, I see you over there. He's like, you know, why are you crying? And I said, you know, I know I don't have a violent crime and it may not be, you know, that severe. But at the same time, I've done irreparable harm to the people that I care about. And really, it's about me just wanting that forgiveness for them from them. And so we had a short, you know, brief conversation. And I get out of class and I immediately call my mother and I was like, you know, I'm so sorry for what I put you through. You know, this is just time for me. But it's time that you're I'm I'm taking away from you because when you're when you're incarcerated, your family is incarcerated with you. And she said, Mackenzie, we we've already forgiven you, you just need to forgive yourself. And I said, I don't know how to do that, you know, and I really didn't I had no clue. And it just kind of started the journey from there is how how can I possibly forgive myself for something that I've done. And it was just a really learning learning growing process, trying to figure out what that looked like for me. Yeah. So that's kind of where my journey started of wanting to change my life. And how long have you been out now? I've been out a year. I was in for probably two years after that. And I got out and I had every drive to stay clean, which I have. But to be honest with you, incarceration is traumatic in itself. And reentry from prison is also traumatic in itself. Because those those five years that I was in almost it just slapped me right in the face as soon as I got out. I didn't know how to live sober and not incarcerated, right? You know, and and my my parents didn't understand what that felt like. You know, so I had support, but in my reentry, I didn't have much of a support. And I didn't know how to live. So and and what did it take for you to figure that out? To be honest with you, I went to a main prison reentry network weekly meeting. And I'd been actually going to them a year prior to my release from prison. And it just took somebody saying, you know, what's going on with you? How are you doing? And and I got real vulnerable and I started crying. And I was like, I just I feel so alone, like nobody understands what I'm going through. And that was that was real, that was raw. And all of a sudden, all these people started, you know, kind of come into my side and, you know, cheering me on and and saying, you know, if you need support in any way, I've got you. And really, it's it's just those moments that seem maybe small to other people, but we're just huge to me. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, and you know, it's those small moments that that really the important ones we grab on to keep us going, you know, and it feels good. Because I mean, I know in my case, there's there's lots of moments I never imagined I'd get to, you know, reunifying with my kids, having my kids support me and accept me and forgive me, you know, was huge because those were the people that I hurt in my addiction. You know, my daughter was 16 before she ever met a sober version of me. And my boys, my oldest son had already moved out. My middle son was living with family in Massachusetts, you know, and feeling I didn't know everybody was feeling abandoned for four years when I thought I was doing in the favor, you know. So getting all of that stuff back, you know, just the little things that built up to that moment, you know, really kept me going. And then, you know, the ultimate payoff once I got them, you know, to love me again, you know. I actually started working as a recovery coach. And now I'm the recovery coach coordinator for Kenabeth County. So I actually have other recovery coaches underneath me. And we go into the jails. And yeah, and we coach people who are still incarcerated, which is huge, right? Yeah. I can actually go into a jail and not leave on bail conditions. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think, you know, jail gives them an opportunity. You know, for me, it gave me a lot of opportunity to think about my life. But, you know, even just going to 12-step meetings inside jail didn't do a lot for me when I got out. You know, but, you know, now that we can get in there, talk to people, give them that support, that encouragement, the guidance, the reentry programs that are there for people now, they can come out, they can get into a, you know, stable housing situation and have a supportive loving community, really, to help guide them. You know, so that's a pretty important work. For me, the opposite of addiction is connection, right? And in order for me to feel like I belong, I need to connect with other people who feel the same or, you know, who understand exactly what it is. And when I couldn't rub together two days, my five years is monumental, right? And I always make sure I tell people, listen, you have a month, you have a week, that's huge, you know? It doesn't matter how long, if you have the drive to do that and you want to change your life, that's all that matters. It doesn't matter how much time you've been in that community. You know, I remember my first day counting hours. And, you know, I was on Facebook, Facebook early on, you know, six hours, eight hours, 17 hours, and people are, you know, encouraging me and it felt good. And then I was sitting back in the corner, my bedroom, planning my first relapse, you know? And, you know, it was kind of crazy because I was doing it alone. You know, I had people who were supporting me, but I wasn't telling, being honest. You know, I was just sitting in my room, you know? So getting connected with the community outside, having support that, you know, I could really feel, you know, is pretty important. And growing up, you know, it was connection we saw it. And we got connected to a community of people, you know, but what that did was disconnected us from the people we really wanted to be connected with, you know, our family and stuff like that. So, you know, congratulations on being out and staying in recovery for five years for all the work that you're doing. You know, it's good stuff. Thank you so much. No problem. You also have a podcast. Do you want to talk about that for a minute or a quick? Yeah, we actually run on WMPG and WERU. I run, well, me and another woman, Linda Dolofsch. We run Reentry Sisters and it's a program for women who are returning to the community. We offer them services, get them connected, you know, to somebody who understands about getting out. And her and I actually do a podcast. It's called Justice Radio, where one of, well, two of six other people who run the show. It runs on Sundays at noon. You can actually listen to it on WMPG radio and it's also on Spotify, iHeartRadio, all lots of other things. That's awesome. We'll keep it up. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thanks for sharing. Yeah, I appreciate it. All of that. Recover loud, everyone. Surround yourself with positive energy. Judges hitting people with provocative penalties. Need to make a change. Advocate to change the laws. To people that it's not insane. When you stand behind the cause, I'm here to speak about the pain. Recover loud to normalize the disease that's been killing all my friends and my family. The time is now to let it all go and recover loud. The benefit is healthy people, family and friends that never have to overdose. Ever again, never have to plead out to a lesser defense. I'm proud to say that I recover loud. I never thought I could, but I'm so proud that I discovered how to live my life again. Controlling my own destiny. I needed recovery. I still need it desperately. Addiction never defy mind. I recover loud here to tell my own story.